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Hala Gorani Tonight
Alleged Russian Spy Admits to Conspiracy Against the United States; Suffering Continues as Warring Parties in Yemen Shake Hands; Senators Voting on Restricting U.S. Military in Yemen War; UK Prime Minister Meets EU Leaders to Discuss Irish Border Issue; Trump Says Interviewing People for Chief of Staff. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired December 13, 2018 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, could this handshake offer a glimmer of hope?
After years of utter hell in Yemen.
Also, tonight at this minute Theresa May is with her EU counterparts desperately trying to get a breakthrough on her Brexit deal. Will it work?
We are live in Brussels.
Also, an alleged Russian spy pleads guilty to conspiracy to act as an illegal foreign agent in the United States. What was Maria Butina after?
We begin this program with that handshake and a question. First, the handshake. What you're looking at right now is the leaders from Yemen's
internationally recognized government and Houthi rebels. The head of the U.N. believes this is a glimmer of hope after more than three years of war,
which brings me to my question. A question we ask on behalf of the tens of thousands of people killed and injured in this conflict. A question we ask
on behalf of the 20 million people who are hungry and starving right now. And it's a question we posed to those leaders we just saw in Sweden who can
make a difference. How will you make sure that this cease-fire works? More on that in a moment. First, here's exactly why you need to pay
attention to what's happening in Yemen. A warning, her report contains distressing images, but ones we feel are important to show you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: An ambulance screeches up to one of the few remaining hospitals. What we're about to
show you is incredibly difficult to watch. In the jumble of bodies, a boy in yellow searching for his mother. Bodies are carried in draped in blood-
soaked cloths. Everywhere, shock and blood and death. This man searching for his wife. He finds instead the body of his 3-year-old sister. It's
too much to take in. My wife, he asks. In surgery. The baby is fine. A glimmer of hope that all too quickly lost. My mother? She's dead. Even
as the peace talks continued in Sweden between Yemen's warring parties, the U.S.-backed Saudi-led coalition and Iran-backed Houthi rebels, so too did
the violence on the ground. This footage was sent to CNN by the Houthi- backed media. The members of this family were killed during an artillery strike under coalition air cover. The coalition denies saying Houthis
continue to target civilians. This is just a glimpse into what it's like almost every night in this besieged city. In spite of U.S. government
promises in October to deliver a cease-fire within 30 days, that month has long since passed.
[14:05:00] Much of what was filmed here is so graphic, we're not going to show it in full. Outside, two little lifeless bodies side by side, waiting
for loved ones to claim them. This man lists a litany of loss. His daughter and her son, his other daughter and her husband. It's too much.
Inside, the boy in yellow finally finds his sister. As he comforts her, other children are carried out. There's just no more room at this
hospital. Outside, his grandmother begins to wail, and he attempts to comfort her. It's all too much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, a coalition spokesperson is denying responsibility for the attack, telling CNN we have no knowledge of this, and it is widely
recognized that the Houthi militia is continuing to target civilians with all types of weapons and its cities. Joining me now, you've been covering
this war for many years. The question is this handshake. We were asking is there -- is it a true glimmer of hope? We've had cease-fire agreements
before in the past. Is this one different?
ELBAGIR: It speaks to the huge amount of international pressure that brought us to this point. There haven't been talks for two years. And for
talks to reach this point, not only where they have agreed a few things, not enough, but they have at least agreed withdrawal from the city of
Hodeida and opening up aid but they have also agreed to meet again, which is key. So that handshake speaks to the fact that the world finally
decided to get behind this process fully.
GORANI: We see Antonio Gutierrez there, the U.N. Secretary-General in that shot. This is what he had to say about these talks in Sweden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO GUTIERREZ, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We have reached an agreement on Hodeida port and city, which will see a redeployment of forces from the
port and the city and the establishment of a government wide cease-fire. This will facilitate success to the civilian population and will improve
the living conditions for millions of Yemenis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, of course people, are familiar with Yemen more and more because of these horrifying images of starving and starved children who
weigh just a few kilos when they should of course weigh a lot more and it's heartbreaking. Will this agreement, if it holds, change their situation,
these kids?
ELBAGIR: To a certain extent a sad, unfortunate answer. We still have no timeline on the humanitarian corridors to move the children out of these
situations. We have a cease-fire in Hodeida, which is key, but we don't have a cease-fire across the rest of the country and we don't have a ban on
aerial bombardment. So, if we're talking about returning Yemen to some sense of normality, to allowing children to go back to school and aid to
reach many of the corners of the country, that isn't there. All of that comes as the U.N. says it needs to recalibrate the needs in Yemen. Now
we're looking -- they are now saying they need $4 billion to feed the people in, yes, Yemen. They are saying there are 24 million people in
need.
GORANI: It's just getting the aid to the people that need it as well. Thanks very much as usual. You talk about the aerial bombardments. That
doesn't cover this critical aspect of the war. This hour Senators were focused on the war in Yemen. The Senators are voting on a bill to restrict
U.S. military involvement in the Saudi-led war. They do in fact aid in the Saudi coalition bombing. Some Senators see the bill as a way to punish
Saudi Arabia and Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman specifically who they believe ordered the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. Manu Raju is
here to sort it all out for us. He's live in Washington. So, the Senate is voting this afternoon on what measure exactly, and what impact could it
have if it passes?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it would end the U.S. support for the Saudi-led war in Yemen within 30 days, assuming that
this war to pass both chambers of Congress and gets signed into law by this President.
[14:10:00] One thing we know for certain, it's going to pass the United States Senate on a bipartisan basis and send a major message from Senators
about their frustration with this war effort and their anger and outrage about Saudi Arabia's role and the crown prince's alleged role in the murder
of Jamal Khashoggi. But, there's disagreement among Republicans about moving forward on this. On the house side of the United States capitol,
the Republican leadership just has a couple more weeks in power, have taken steps to block that Yemen resolution from going forward. Khashoggi. But,
there's disagreement among Republicans about moving forward on this. On the house side of the United States capitol, the Republican leadership just
has a couple more weeks in power, have taken steps to block that Yemen resolution from going forward. So that is not expected to clear the house.
The President and his administration are opposed to this, so it's not going to go much further than it is today, but it will send a direct message to
Saudi Arabia that there is a frustration within Congress and there are other actions, one other very significant measure could come up as soon as
today, a joint resolution offered by the Senate foreign relations committee chairman bob corker to formally say that the United States believes that
Mohammad bin Salman was responsible for the death of Jamal Khashoggi's murder, and that could pass both chambers of Congress and the President
would have to make a decision about whether to sign with Congress or side with the Saudis as he's done so far, Hala.
GORANI: So, it's two separate initiatives, one on ending support for the coalition and another one on essentially sending a message to Saudi Arabia
that the U.S. believes the crown prince ordered the murder of Khashoggi, and the second one has more of a chance. By the way, many of our viewers
read "The New York Times" columnist Nick Kristof's latest column on Yemen. He posted a picture of a starving 12-year-old girl. The headline is "This
Is What Our Yemen Policy Looks Like." How much do members of Congress look at the coverage of the Yemen war, you know, and perhaps look at how it's
making its way into American public opinion there and how much is that informing their decision to go ahead with resolutions like these?
RAJU: You know, it's definitely shifting opinion on capitol hill. Just weeks ago, or months ago, this measure that's before the Senate right now
would not have had enough votes to get through the Senate. Now it overwhelmingly will. Nancy Pelosi, the incoming house speaker, I asked her
earlier today about these measures, and she believes that there's enough bipartisan support that this possibly could come up in the next Congress as
well, so this issue is not going away even if it does not become law, even if it does not have any immediate impact. Clearly there's pressure that's
growing on capitol hill told something to pull back. We'll see how the Trump administration ultimately responds, Hala.
GORANI: And we'll see what happens when Democrats in fact take over in January. Manu Raju, thanks as always.
Now, yesterday, hopefully you were watching us yesterday, because it was a difficult day for the British prime minister, Theresa May. Obviously not
difficult all the way because she did win that vote of no confidence, but it doesn't mean her job will get any easier. She is in Brussels tonight
meeting with EU leaders in an attempt to strengthen her position and bring a different deal back to parliament. She even said herself, though, she's
not expecting any immediate breakthrough. Despite giving her a warmer welcome than usual, EU leaders have been pretty clear, they do not plan to
give Theresa May any concessions. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEO VARADKAR, PRIME MINISTER, IRELAND: I think there's one thing that's undeniable, all these difficulties that Europe now faces, all of Europe now
faces difficulties because of a decision that the U.K. made to leave the European Union. That is the source of all these problems. We respect the
decision that they have made but it does mean there's a special obligation on them now to come up with the solutions.
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE: We cannot reopen a legal agreement. We cannot renegotiate what has been negotiated for many months. We can
have a political discussion in this context, and it is up to Theresa May to tell us what is the political solution to have a majority on this
agreement.
MARK RUTTE, PRIME MINISTER, NETHERLANDS: The thing tonight is that we have to seek clarifications, particularly on the back stop. The whole thinking
in the U.K. that a backstop is inevitable, that it will be triggered, I can assure you anything, there is nobody in his right mind who wants the back
stop there is bad news not only for the U.K. but the EU.
XAVIER BETTEL, PRIME MINISTER, LUXEMBOURG: I think renegotiating will be very, very hard, but if we need to do precisions to help, I really want to
help her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I really want to help. That's what we keep hearing from the EU. They say they want to help, and right after that they say but we won't
renegotiate. Erin McLaughlin is in Brussels for us tonight. Will they give Theresa May anything at this stage?
[14:15:00] ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, LONDON BUREAU: Well, based on what diplomats are telling me here in Brussels, Hala, that
very much depends on Theresa May and what she has to say tonight. We heard from the EU leaders there essentially say that the onus is on her to
present concrete proposals as to what sort of assurances she thinks will help move this deal over the line at Westminster. They're also going to be
looking to her to convince them that she has the political clout left to be able to take those assurances and the deal and then move that over the line
at Westminster, because that is very much in doubt. There are concerns about that given this vote of no confidence that happened last night.
GORANI: But I mean they know what she wants and they know what she needs. This will not come as news to them that those who oppose the deal oppose a
couple of things. One is the indefinite insurance policy on keeping the soft border between North Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, and the
other perhaps is the idea of being in a customs union where you have no say over the rules. So, these are two aspects of her deal that keep coming up
over and over again from those who oppose it. So, they know what it is that they need to give her. Will they relent at all on the Ireland border?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think it was very telling that today the President of the European commission purposely chose a green tie to wear to today's summit.
They are standing firm by Ireland. They do not want to give at all on that Irish backstop, but they are open to potentially providing further
clarifications, further assurances to be able to help Theresa May, because there is a recognition here of the predicament that she finds herself.
There is a recognition as well of the stakes in all of this that no deal scenario is really seen as catastrophic for both sides, both the U.K. and
the EU. So, I think it will be very interesting to see what comes out of the working dinner that's expected for later tonight, once Theresa May is
finished with the Q & A. She leaves the dinner and takes a strategic decision as to what to do next. We are expecting those council conclusions
out of that dinner and will be reading those conclusions very carefully to see if they open up an avenue of some sort of process, some sort of further
negotiation on some kind of side deal or an instrument to help out Theresa May. That's what we'll be looking for at the end of the evening.
GORANI: Do we know what's on the menu, by the way?
MCLAUGHLIN: Not yet. Not yet, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Once you learn, tell us what Theresa May is having for dinner this evening. How many courses would be interesting? Thank you,
Erin McLaughlin.
Still to come, sources described him as seething in silence, but Donald Trump is now speaking out about his former attorney and so-called fixer,
Michael Cohen. What he is saying about him, next.
Also, horror in Turkey today. A high-speed train crashes in the capital right as rush hour was beginning. It was a deadly, deadly accident. We'll
be right back.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The American President, Donald Trump, is hosting newly elected state governors at the White House this hour. The idea is to discuss jobs
and infrastructure, but it's clear from his tweets and an interview, the idea is to discuss jobs and infrastructure, but it's clear from his tweets
and an interview on fox news that he's focused on his former attorney's dramatic court appearance on Wednesday. Michael Cohen was sentenced to
three years behind bars for crimes he says Donald Trump told him to commit. Mr. Trump is denying that and saying prosecutors filed those charges to
embarrass him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I never directed him to do anything wrong. Whatever he did, he did on his own. He's a lawyer. A lawyer who
represents a client who's supposed to do the right thing. That's why you pay them a lot of money, et cetera, et cetera. He is a lawyer. He
represents a client. I never directed him to do anything incorrect or wrong, and he understands that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, some top Democrats say the allegations swirling around Mr. Trump are so serious that the justice department should revisit long-
standing guidance that a sitting President cannot be indicted. Let's bring in White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. First of all, we are waiting
to hear from the President, but from his tweets we get a very good sense of what's on his mind today.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. That was his first public response after Michael Cohen was sentenced to those three years
yesterday. Essentially what he said on Twitter this morning is what he reiterated during that interview with Fox News. Distancing himself from
Cohen, seeking to minimize their relationship by saying he was essentially doing more PR work than legal work and the PR work that he was doing was
pretty low level, and also say -- not disputing that he directed Michael Cohen to make these payments to these women, but saying he did not direct
them to make them in an illegal manner that Michael Cohen did. If he did, it's Michael Cohen that bears the criminal responsibility for that. Now,
President Trump goes on and seems to contradict himself by saying he doesn't believe Michael Cohen broke the law and President Trump feels he's
being held to a different standard on campaign finance violations than Michael Cohen would be if he wasn't associated with the President. What
all this is alluding to is the President feels embarrassed by all of this. He said that multiple times, that he feels those prosecutors only put these
campaign finance violation charges against Michael Cohen because they wanted to embarrass him. If you know anything about President Trump, you
know that is one of his most sensitive subjects is to be embarrassed.
And he repeated that several times throughout that interview. You're just getting to see what a sensitive area this is for President Trump. Anything
regarding Michael Cohen. Now, what President Trump was not asked during that interview was about the fact that he lied about knowing about these
payments, because when he was asked on air force one on camera, did you know about the $130,000 that were paid to Stormy Daniels, he says no.
You'd have to ask my lawyer, Michael Cohen. But of course, we have now found out that's not true, and President Trump did know about these
payments.
GORANI: How concerned beyond feeling embarrassed is the President, especially once Democrats take over the house of representatives that this
could cause more problems for him than just, you know, feeling embarrassed or irritated by what his former lawyer says in court or to the
investigators?
COLLINS: Right. And he's been worried about Michael Cohen since long before the Democrats did take over the house and when they will officially
take over in January, that has been one of his most sensitive subjects, more so than the Russia investigation and Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn,
Rick Gates. Michael Cohen has troubled him the most. That certainly is something that is still troubling him now. But you notice he didn't
reference the fact that Michael Cohen is cooperating with the special counsel and has sat down with him over half a dozen times. They said in
those court filings when Michael Cohen is being sentenced that he had provided rye liable, credible and useful information that was related to
the core of their investigation, which is whether or not any Trump campaign officials colluded with Russians to sway the election. So that's certainly
something that's going to be on President Trump's mind but it's also not just in that sense but also as he looks forward to those newly empowered
Democrats taking over in January because he knows that they are promising strict oversight of his administration.
[14:25:00] GORANI: Well, we saw that tense oval office meeting with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, how that went, so maybe that's setting the tone
for the next two years. Thanks very much, Kaitlan Collins.
Now to the case of an alleged Russian spy who just pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the United States under the direction of a Russian
government official. Prosecutors say Maria Butina infiltrated Republican political circles and a powerful gun lobby, the NRA, to further the
Kremlin's agenda. Let's get the latest now from Washington. Sara Murray joins me live. So, she's -- now she's put in a guilty plea. What happens
to her now?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, she has put in a guilty plea but she's cooperating with investigators. That's really going to
determine what happens to her next. They did not set a date for her sentencing hearing because she's still cooperating and obviously
prosecutors want to see how that goes. She faces a maximum in five years in prison for this crime she pleaded guilty to, conspiracy, but in the plea
agreement there's a sentencing guideline that says zero to six months, and that could be time already served. So, if the government goes back and
says she's been substantially helpful, it's possible the next time we see them she could essentially be released on time served. But she's
cooperating on two things. Of course, her contacts with her Russian handlers, someone she tried to get money from as well as Alexander Torshin,
a former Russian banker while she was in the U.S., but also contacts with her boyfriend, Paul Erickson.
GORANI: Sara Murray in our Washington bureau, thanks very much for that update.
Let's get more on the deal that U.S. prosecutors reached not with Michael Cohen but the parent company of an American tabloid called "The National
Enquirer." the tabloid bought and buried the story of a woman who says she had an affair with Mr. Trump. American Media, Inc., admitted to
coordinating with the Trump campaign, saying the main goal of buying and then killing this story was to keep it from influencing the 2016 election.
Our chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me now. So, AMI, the parent company of "The National Enquirer" is admitting wrongdoing. Why?
Are they getting immunity out of it?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: They're getting a non- prosecution agreement essentially. David Pecker, who owns the company, has been given immunity and he's provided a lot of investigation to
investigators. Notably, Hala, this agreement says the cooperation will continue in the future. That suggests Michael Cohen is not the last
individual that may be prosecuted by the Southern District of New York, the U.S. Attorney's Office in New York that is focusing on this case. After
Cohen, who else could it be? Could it be the President that is ultimately targeted by the prosecutors, it has yet to be seen? But they handed over
evidence and will continue to cooperate in the future.
GORANI: And what kind of evidence did they hand over?
STELTER: Well, there were contracts, there were phone calls, e-mails, other sorts of evidence of relationships between Trump and Trump's campaign
and the "National Enquirer." the supermarket tabloid was a big part of the Trump machine. It promoted Trump and trashed Hillary Clinton both in 2016
and then after the election as well, continuing to pump up Trump. It was the very same month that "The National Enquirer" Was subpoenaed and Cohen's
office was raided that those pro-Trump covers suddenly stopped appearing. So, among other things here, next to the giant legal problem, this also
means Trump has lost one of his biggest supporters in the media.
GORANI: Right, sure. We saw a lot of anti-Hillary coverage, as you rightly mentioned as well. Brian Stelter, our chief media correspondent
joining us from New York, appreciate it. By the way, any second now we're expecting the U.S. President to be speaking at that event with governors-
elect. Here he is. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's going to be a very good discussion, thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're interviewing people now for chief
of staff, yes. Five people, really good ones. Terrific people. Mostly well known, but terrific people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, quick question about Michael Flynn. Judge Sullivan has asked the office of special counsel and the FBI for
documents related to the interview of Michael Flynn.
TRUMP: That's great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that the FBI acted improperly in how they --
[14:30:00] TRUMP: Well, the FBI said Michael Flynn, a general and a great person, they said he didn't lie. And Mueller said, well, maybe he did.
And now they're all having a big dispute. So, I think it's a great thing that the judge is looking into that situation. That's an honor for a lot
of terrific people. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Donald Trump there at that meeting with governors- elect talking about Michael Flynn, his former national security advisor, who served very briefly at the White House before resigning and who's been
cooperating with the Mueller investigation. He mentioned the cooperation that Michael Flynn provided to prosecutors in saying the FBI said he didn't
lie but then Mueller says maybe he did. That's as far as he went there in his commentary about Michael Flynn, but of course on Twitter earlier, the
President went on a sort of another --posted another series of tweets about Michael Cohen, his former attorney. And then there used a very different
tone with regards to his cooperation with prosecutors.
We'll have a lot more news coming up. Hundreds of police, three countries on alert, and one man in their sights. Authorities' ramp up efforts to
find the suspect behind the Strasbourg Christmas market attack.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, three European countries are looking for one man. They are hunting the suspects behind the Strasbourg terrorist attack. A fifth
person is now in custody in France in connection with the investigation. And earlier, French police evacuated buildings to conduct checks.
Authorities have released the photo, a photo of the suspect. He allegedly shot three people dead at a Christmas market. Ben Wedeman is in Paris.
So this has been going on now for several days, this manhunt. Are they any -- I mean obviously there are many countries they have to look through,
Germany and other countries, but this could take a while.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It has been, Hala, 48 hours and 30 minutes since that attack took place, and still Cherif
Chekatt, this 29-year-old gunman who went on a rampage that ultimately killed three people at that Christmas market in Strasbourg is still on the
loose.
Now, today, the police went to the area of Neudorf in Strasbourg which is where Cherif Chekatt grew up. And they were checking -- they basically
going back to various locations to see if they missed something. That was the last location where he was seen after he went on this shooting rampage.
And, of course, he was wounded at the time because shortly after he went on this rampage, he did -- was engaged in an exchange of fire with some
soldiers, but somehow he managed to get away in a taxi.
French, German, and Swiss authorities are looking for him, but so far no trace. They kept in custody his mother, his father, his two brothers. Now
they've added another individual that they're questioning. But until now, it is a mystery where he is.
Germany is only about four kilometers from Strasbourg to the east. He did spend time in German jails, in Swiss jails and in French jails where it's
believed he was radicalized. But until now, no trace of him. Hala.
[14:35:17] GORANI: And he was reportedly -- police reportedly went to his home the day of the attack to him, is that correct?
WEDEMAN: That is correct. They went to his house in the morning to arrest him for something completely unrelated, keeping in mind, of course, he was
convicted 27 times, the first time at the age of 13. But most all of those convictions had to do with petty crime, theft, violent crimes, but nothing
along the lines of terrorism.
So yes, they know this individual very well. And he was on the Fiche S, the so-called S-list of individuals who pose a danger to public safety.
But there are 20,000 people on that list, between 10,000 and 12,000 who are in theory supposed to be under surveillance, but how it's impossible to
keep that number of people under surveillance, so it seems that he has fallen through the cracks. Hala.
GORANI: All right. Well, let's hope they -- let's hope they find him soon. Thanks very much, Ben Wedeman in Paris.
In Turkey, nine people at least are dead after a horrific train crash during the early morning commute. The train collided head on with a
maintenance vehicle in Ankara, according to the state news agency. The impact was so severe that part of a bridge collapsed. Dozens of people
were injured and authorities are worried that the number of dead could rise.
Let's turn now to those crucial climate talks that are going on in Poland. The COP24 summit wraps up tomorrow and there's practically no agreement on
how to continue to tackle global warming. The head of the U.N. says failing to do so would be suicidal.
Meanwhile, the very place where these talks are taking place is actually the heart of coal country in Poland.
Our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, has that story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If there's a glimmer of hope for climate change on the planet, it's not down here. A
thousand meters mining underground, women are seems bad luck and everyone greets each other with God bless you.
It's quite startling this far below the earth to see how diverse this would recall is from the global challenge above COP24. This coal helps make
steel even for cleaner technologies so nobody feels change is coming soon.
"Global warming is overrated," he says. "It's based on political motives to lower coal use. Poland has the mother lode of coal."
It does indeed. Black gold is at the core of life and prestige here. Mining hasn't lost any of its sparkle.
In this tiny block of flats, coal is how in the damp they keep themselves warm. The real constant in this former miner's life. But it's also what
they wear, how they wash, and even in where they worship.
This was once a mining community, but now the men in overalls are here to fix gas supplies. And former teachers no change can't be stopped.
"We care about the environment," she says, "but it's regrettable our families won't have jobs."
"The coal stoves are going away," another adds. "I even use gas now."
"We were teaching 3-year-old children how to separate rubbish," she adds, "and what to do with it."
A paradox too then for a summit about how the world will measure emission reductions, technicalities that are both easy to dismiss, but also vital to
ensure a drop and save our planet.
A lot of this is about presentation, about convincing people of the trillions of dollars they've to spend to prevent catastrophe. But there is
something also utterly vital missing and that's a message of international consensus.
The summit thrown by a refusal to welcome a key scientific report last weekend, led by Russia who have space here but few people. And the United
States, who were listed as here on the floor map, but aren't.
People keep coming to you asking where's America. Okay.
They're joined by Kuwait, who share a space around this engine with Saudi Arabia.
They mark their office like this. No one inside. This is the Saudi room, though, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
WALSH: But a joke isn't funny anymore. Not with 12 years to avoid global disaster.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Genocide.
(CROWD CHANTING)
[14:40:05] WALSH: The U.S. instead found itself chanted down by protesters as it promoted fossil fuel use.
It's a different world here to Barack Obama's former climate change envoy, Todd Stern. There's been a certain amount of chucking of eggs at a more
even more political level as well and having the U.S. not engaged in that instrumental way and not engaged at that senior political way from the
president on down to really to my level, that's -- that makes it more difficult here.
And worst thing you can do is look at the IPCC report, say oh, my God, look where we are and put a pillow over your head and say I can't think about
this and let's just build sea walls.
WALSH: But even if there is success here, it is outside these walls. In daily lives globally, that the greater change must come.
Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Katowice (ph).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come, two Canadian businessmen are caught up in a high- stakes diplomatic feud. Arrests and retaliation are now spanning the globe from China to Canada. We'll sort it out for you, just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: American and Canadian business leaders maybe taking a much closer look at the safety of their international travel plans. What started as a
trade feud between China and the United States has now exploded into some very dangerous geopolitical intrigue.
Former Canadian diplomat, Michael Kovrig and businessman, Michael Spavor, are now being detained in China. Beijing says it's on suspicion of
activities that endangered "China's national security," quote-unquote.
But many are speculating that they're in fact being held in retaliation for Canada's arrest of a high-powered Chinese tech executive, Meng Wanzhou.
Well, could there be more? Plenty of cloak and dagger here with Canada caught in the middle. Paula Newton is in the Canadian capital Ottawa.
Samuel burke joins me here in the studio with other developments connected Huawei.
So first of all, Paula, these arrests of Canadian nationals in China, are they connected to the arrest of the Huawei executive in Canada?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Of course, no one will say so openly, but it's hard to think otherwise, and that's from both Chinese
officials and Canadian officials behind the scenes.
I mean, look, Hala, these were two people that are well-known to Chinese authorities, had had very good relations with Chinese authorities. They
were easy targets.
And what you mentioned there, the fact that they're being detained on those national security investigations, very serious, and it means that they will
be refused due process for as long as the Chinese think it's necessary. Canada has not been able to provide them with counsel or assistance yet.
The Chinese have not given them access to them. And it really leaves Canada with very few options here.
[14:45:00] As you were saying, geopolitically and also with the fact that this executive now out on bail, the CFO of Huawei, now is waiting for that
extradition to the United States. This was a clear sign by China that if you get caught in between the crossfire between the U.S. and China trade
war, you will need to take cover.
And, unfortunately, this is leaving Canada thinking that perhaps it needs to elevate its travel alert to China as well.
GORANI: Right. I should have said two Canadians in China, not in Canada, obviously.
Samuel Burke, the problems for Huawei could extend far beyond the arrest of one of their top executives. There's a big Japanese company that's
thinking of dropping them.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: What a year it's been for Huawei. If you look at what's happening there in Canada but also
on the business front. This is the year that Huawei thought they were going to break into the United States, and it has been a terrible year for
them businesswise.
So now, not only do we have these situations, in Japan, one of the biggest telecom carriers there, SoftBank, is saying they're considering dropping
Huawei as their 5g carrier, so that's Japan. I want to just put up on the screen all of the other places in the world where they're seeing severe
limitations.
Now, you've got Australia and New Zealand blocking Huawei from providing them 5G equipment. Here in the, U.K., you've got telecoms groups BT not
buying 5G and removing their 4G equipment.
In the U.S., intelligence agencies said that American citizens shouldn't use Huawei phones, though they are still available there. Every day that
gets closer to 2019, they must be counting down at Huawei. It's been very difficult for them.
But I must say, Hala, there is no public evidence, no public evidence of any of what these governments allege. We've never seen something tangible
given to the press. And I should add, my colleague in Canada would tell you that Canada could be on that list soon of countries looking to keep
them out.
GORANI: Paula, these two Canadians detained in China, what is the -- I mean what is the Canadian government doing to facilitate their release at
this stage?
NEWTON: Well, they're doing all they can, and that includes continually explaining to the Chinese authorities over and over again that they had no
choice but to arrest and detain that Huawei executive. And that's been at the heart of the issue.
Hala, I've been a bit surprised the Canadians could, in fact, be more strident, for instance, they haven't called in the Chinese ambassador to
Canada yet, but they're trying to keep a level head and why. The last time this happened, this isn't without president, a couple, a Julian and Kevin
Garatt, again in a tit for tat were held for two years.
Canada wants to avoid that. They want to make sure they de-escalate this thing. But you know, so much of this hinges on what Samuel was just
talking about. And the fact that Canada, right now, along with all those other countries that Samuel mentioned, are trying to see if they should ban
Huawei.
Canada will have a decision on that likely early in 2019. And again, who knows how that could affect the fate, not just of these two Canadians,
Hala, that are detained right now, but China/U.S. relations.
And I have to tell you, U.S. allies all over the world, especially there in Europe, are watching this case carefully.
GORANI: All right. Paula Newton, thanks very much.
What are we going to now? Because we're looking at -- oh, I want to talk to you about this before we get to what's happening in Turkey. So the New
York Times asked on Twitter, this is something that's been very amusing to all of us living in London, asked on Twitter London residents to talk about
petty crimes that they may have witnessed or experienced.
And because brits, you know, they have a dry, wry sense of humor --
BURKE: It's one of the great perks of living here. The great British way and they're so quick.
GORANI: Yes, I know. So, of course, they pounced on that tweet. And the replies to the New York Times tweet were absolutely hilarious.
Let's take a look at some of them here. Or maybe not.
BURKE: We might have to wait. Hopefully their wit has rubbed off on us and we can start --
GORANI: Or maybe we don't have them. All right. We do not have them.
BURKE: OK.
GORANI: That's OK. But one of them was -- I remember some of them. No, because, you know, the thing about brits is of course when they have an
American publication, and we love the New York Times and we read it a lot and things like that. And it's not about the serious problem of crime, but
here you have, for instance, Mary Poppins. I was threatened by this street gang and those of the chimneys sweepers.
I ordered a tea and they put the milk in first. I always thought that was the way to do it though.
BURKE: Well, I guess you're not British enough.
GORANI: I'm not.
BURKE: Someone clipped me with their trolley at Waitrose, the grocery store, the other day and only apologized once. That would be shocking.
GORANI: I think that was me. I think that was me. All right.
BURKE: The Brits apologize at least four or five times.
GORANI: All right. Well, that was just a moment of levity on Twitter. Thank you very much, Samuel Burke, for that.
But now serious matters. And we were talking about Turkey earlier because of that terrible train accident. But there is an unsettling trend there.
More journalists are being detained around the world than ever before. And in the Trump era, some worry that his attacks on the media are giving other
leaders a green light.
[14:50:07] According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, Turkey remains the world's worst jailer of journalists. CNN's Jomana Karadsheh
reports from Istanbul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Turkey's leadership, the murder of Washington Post columnist, Jamal Khashoggi, at the Saudi
consulate in Istanbul was an attack on the country's sovereignty. And as the government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan is leading the quest for justice in
this case, some found the irony in that striking.
EROL ONDEROGLU, JOURNALIST, REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS: It's quite ironic that a country, like Turkey, 157 out of 180 in Reporter Without Border,
press freedom index, finds itself as a defender of media freedom or defender of journalistic rights at the global scale.
KARADSHEH: Erol Onderoglu, on Reporters Without Borders, spends much of his time attending trials of Turkish reporters, all too frequent in a
country, named the largest jailer of journalists in the world, by the committee, to protect journalists.
Almost every month, new charges are brought against opposition reporters. Just this week, five journalists from the secular opposition newspaper,
Sozcu, were charged with aiding the outlawed movement of U.S.-based cleric, Fethullah Gulen. Turkey says his group was behind the 2016 failed coup
attempt.
Dozens more are behind bars, accused of aiding or being part of this movement or the Kurdish militant group, the PKK, a designated terror group,
Turkey has been battling since the 1980s.
KARADSHEH (on camera): Critics say the government has used the failed coup attempt as a pretext to silence those who oppose it. But Turkish officials
have repeatedly denied that this is a clamp down on press freedoms. They say they're fighting terrorism and that this is a matter of national
security.
KARADSHEH (voice-over): In June, a young journalism student worried about the future of the profession in Turkey voiced her concerns to the president
during a gathering at the presidential palace. Erdogan responded, "You are free, as you are asking this to a president in his own place."
The woman responded, "I want to be free when I do my job." "Freedom of journalists ends when the freedom of others begins," the president
answered.
According to CPJ, while there are currently more journalists in prisons, in Turkey, than anywhere else in the world, the number of jailed reporters has
gone down. The watchdog group, however, says the number of journalists detained in China, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, has gone up this year.
For the third year in row, 251 or more journalists are jailed around the world, suggesting authoritarian approach to critical news coverage is more
than a temporary spike.
CPJ warns hundreds of journalists jailed globally, has become the new normal.
ONDEROGLU: International actors usually dealing with fundamental rights are not -- are not there to bring good examples. And I'm afraid that the
impact of U.S. President Donald Trump in targeting the U.S. media is not a good reference for the Turkey, countries like Turkey.
KARADSHEH: With journalists under attack like never before, there is little hope 2019 will be any better, for what some are now calling the war
on truth.
Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Istanbul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: We'll be right back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:12] GORANI: It's known as one of the world's greatest cities. Obviously visitors know Tokyo for its urban identity, but you may not know
that it has some magnificent natural surroundings that are also part of the spirit of the city.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When people think of Tokyo, one of the densest cities in the world, nature may not be the first thing that comes to mind. At the
root of Japanese culture is a deep traditional connection to nature, to create harmony in society.
HIDETOSHI NAKATA, HOST, SPIRIT OF TOKYO: I always think nature makes culture, so why we talk this way, why we live this way, why we eat this,
because maybe by nature.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Today, we are embracing nature in a new way. We are going glamping, or camping with a glamorous twist.
NAKATA: And now that you know -- this glamping concept is coming up here in Japan, but of course it's very quite rare to see inside Tokyo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here at the glamping site of Circus Outdoor in Okutama, it is about disconnecting with the hustle and bustle of the city
and living in all that nature has to offer.
MANABU ISHIYAMA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CIRCUS OUTDOOR (through translator): Not many people know there is such great nature in Tokyo, so
setting in Okutama helps them see that new side of it.
NAKATA: Good night.
I think it's a perfect place here in Tokyo. It's beautiful. Actually, I slept really well and very comfortable. Even though it's quite chilly, but
my mind is very clear now and I'm kind of reborn. It's nice.
Being in nature is very important. You can do many things. It was sound, air, like lights, colors, gives you all the passion, the energy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
