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Hala Gorani Tonight
Rudy Giuliani Says Trump Didn't Collude but The Campaign Might Have; "Wall Street Journal" Says Michael Cohen Paid for Rigged Presidential Polls; Syrian Withdrawal Causes Concerns About Trump's Iran Policy; Duke of Edinburgh Involved in Car Crash; Voters in Northern England Blast Politicians on Brexit. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired January 17, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, a gob smacking statement from Rudy Giuliani, the
U.S. President's lawyer, admits the Trump campaign may have colluded with Russia. To a developing story this hour. The Duke of Edinburgh, the
Queen's husband has been involved in a car crash. We will bring you the details. We go inside the GM plant where noose's and whites only signs
once hung, that shocking report is coming up. We'll bring that to you later this hour. Now, no collusion for nearly two years. Those two words
have been at the heart of Donald Trump's defense against the Russia investigation. Well, now, the U.S. President's attorney, Rudy Giuliani,
has shifted the goal posts by a mile. Not surprisingly, perhaps, Mr. Trump is focused on other things today. He spoke at the Pentagon, not mentioned
the uproar over Giuliani's floating the possibility on CNN during an interview that people in Mr. Trump's campaign may have colluded with Russia
after all. Listen to what Giuliani told Chris Cuomo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR THE PRESIDENT: I never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Yes, you have.
GIULIANI: I have not. I said the President of the United States. There is not a single bit of evidence the President of the United States
committed the only crime that you could commit here, conspired with the Russians to hack the DNC.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Giuliani's remarks come days after the first hint of collusion surfaced. Court filings showed Mr. Trump's former campaign
manager Paul Manafort shared polling data with a Russian operative. You may remember in his first news conference as President. Mr. Trump said no
one in his campaign had any contact with Russia. How times have changed. Let's bring in White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. I don't see any
tweets from the President or in his public remarks any mention of what Rudy Giuliani said yesterday.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No, Hala. The President hasn't acknowledged this misstep from his own lawyer. Even though you have
to kind of expect that. Because Rudy Giuliani has done this before and we haven't heard from the President. Now, Rudy Giuliani, himself, is trying
to back pedal after that remark he made, especially after it sent so many people into a tailspin. He is really trying to explain those remarks
today.
One quote he gave CNN was, "I can't possibly say no one had contact about something in some way." So, it seems to me Rudy Giuliani is saying there,
he can't definitively state no one in the Trump campaign colluded with Russia. That dates back to something he said in July, when he said no one
in the campaign had colluded with Russia. But, of course. Then he went on to say he had only checked with his senior level people, four or five
people. That's the number he gave Fox News during an interview, saying he'd check with them. He did think they had colluded with Russia and that
is why he felt confident saying that. But what people are seeing today is a shift in the goal post from what we have seen from not only Rudy
Giuliani, White House officials, former White House officials and President Trump, himself, say, about with Russia leads to the question of is he
laying the ground for something to be revealed?
We have seen Rudy Giuliani do this before as he did with the hush payments to the women, that was the question here. Is he revealing something more
or making another mistake that we've seen Rudy make in the past? That's the question here. A lot of this largely is representative of how we've
seen their changes, their defenses changes. There has been more evidence of conversations between Trump officials and Russians. That's something we
have noticed is a pattern throughout the Trump presidency.
GORANI: And regarding the shutdown, because it goes on. It's the longest in U.S. history. Any developments there that could lead us to believe that
a deal could be struck to reopen the government with the hundreds of thousands of federal employees going without pay?
COLLINS: Yes, this is a record-breaking shutdown. Not a record the White House wants to break. Right now, there seems to be no impasse to get them
out of this deadlock.
[14:05:00] We've seen the White House try to maneuver things in recent days inviting
that bipartisan group of Republicans and Democrats to the White House for lunch
even though that didn't yield a lot of progress. The White House still seems to be trying to figure out what their next step here is going to be
and, of course, they're not only dealing with that where they were already making no progress. Then you saw that letter Nancy Pelosi delivered to the
White House yesterday, essentially telling the President if the government is not opened by January 29th, the day she asked him to come give the State
of the Union initially, she doesn't think it's a good idea for him to come and deliver it.
Now the White House, which is not typically quiet when something like that happens, has not responded. It's an unusual level of silence we hear not
only from the President and his Twitter feed, also his aides, that are not commenting on that power move that many saw Nancy Pelosi did. So, no
closer to figuring out what the end of the shutdown will be. That's leaving a lot of questions like what will happen with the State of the
Union address.
GORANI: All right, Kaitlan Collins at the White House. Thanks very much.
Elie Honig joins me now. I want to talk a little more about what Rudy Giuliani said, thanks for being with us. I never said there was no
collusion between the campaign and Russia. What are the legal implications of someone's personal lawyer saying live on televising vision that it's
possible that a crime was committed?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Hala, it's certainly a change in strategy and a change from the talking points that we've heard before.
President Trump, himself, has said over a dozen times -- said or tweeted, nobody -- neither I nor anybody from my campaign has ever colluded with
Russia. And now as we see the evidence, at least the public evidence mount over the past several months, we see a change from Rudy Giuliani. And
there is some speculation about did Rudy make a mistake or is this intentional. Rudy Giuliani has become somewhat of an easy figure to
ridicule. I don't down play him. I think he's a smart lawyer. I think everything he does is done with a strategic purpose.
GORANI: What would the strategy be here?
HONIG: This is what I would call a strategic surrender. One thing you have to do as a defense lawyer is figure out where the facts are, the fact
that are non-negotiable are and work around them and find where your safe ground is. And I think someone whether it's Giuliani or Trump, himself,
has made a calculation that as the facts mount up, in particular the fact Kaitlan mentioned, last week's revelation that Paul Manafort had been
feeding secret proprietary internal polling data to Russian intel and oligarchs. I think that is a huge blow to the whole idea of no collusion.
And I think in Rudy's mind there is only so long you can go out saying, no collusion, nobody from the campaign had anything to do with Russia, and is now a matter of record.
GORANI: Just say nothing. Why not say nothing?
HONIG: That would be the smartest move, the smartest thing any defense lawyer can advise his client, say nothing. Put down the Twitter. Don't do
interviews. The defense lawyers, this is atypical behavior for a criminal defense lawyer. Typically, criminal defense lawyers say next to nothing on
the record. Anything they do say they have absolutely buttoned down and know they have it right and know it can't hurt them. Here we see Rudy
Giuliani really shooting from the hip leaving us to wonder is he off the rails or does he have some very unorthodox strategy?
GORANI: Also, the fact he is saying there could have been collusion between campaign staffers and Russia that he can't exclude that. This
comes off the back of his boss, Donald Trump, saying time and time again that there was no collusion. Here's a little montage of how many times you
said it of the last few times you said it over the last several months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There has been no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russians.
There was no collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian people.
There was no collusion whatsoever. There never has been. The last thing I want is help from Russia on a campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, he's saying no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. He said that time and time again.
HONIG: Exactly. That's why this is such a change in course. This is a perfect example of why any person who is the target of a criminal
investigation or a lawyer should keep their mouth shut. The more you get out on a limb, the more you can get caught on that limb. Trump, it seems
to be just a part of his personality. He likes to make broad proclamations and attack anyone that attacks him and as a result you have broad
declarations that now seem clearly not to be true, that now even his attorney is trying to gently back away from.
GORANI: Right. And there is another story as well today. Which is Michael Cohen the former personal attorney of the President admitting
having paid thousands of dollars in 2015 to a tech company to rig online polls in favor of the President.
[14:10:00] HONIG: Yes.
GORANI: Who was then, of course, just a potential candidate.
HONIG: Yes. It's an interesting story. It tells me a couple of things that I think are important. First of all, it shows that Michael Cohen and
other people around the President trying to get him elected in 2016, fully understood the power of online media, of social media. Look. That's
consistent with one of the strategies that the Russian hackers took to try to assist Donald Trump. It also to me underscores that Michael Cohen, just
how close he was with Donald Trump. Now that he's cooperated, Donald Trump has tried to distance himself from Michael Cohen, say I barely knew him.
He only did small jobs. We learned from this article he was routinely receiving checks tens of thousands from Trump. The last thing it shows me,
Michael Cohen himself is quite a slippery character. One of the features from "The Wall Street Journal" is Michael Cohen was apparently ripping off
Trump. He was under paying them on the bill, $16,000 and pocketing 50 from the Trump campaign. The expression we use in court here is if you lie down
with dogs, you get fleas. If you affiliate yourself with crooked lawyers, you get crooked lawyers.
GORANI: All right, will lots to discuss, always a pleasure. Thanks for joining us.
When President Trump gave a speech at the Pentagon today, he spoke about U.S. missile defenses and he offered condolences to the families of the
four Americans who were killed in Syria a few days ago. Then as he did by the way as you remember when he made that visit to Iraq over Christmas. He
quickly veered into politics declaring at one point the Democratic party has been hijacked by radical leftists who support open
is in this way being politicized.
Ryan Browne is at the pentagon. I was telling our viewers, reminding them over Christmas when the President visited Iraq with the First Lady. It
sort of took on airs that whole visit almost of a campaign rally and some military commanders were concerned at that point saying it shouldn't be
this overtly political. What was it like today?
RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. We heard from multiple military commanders and defense officials that there is this
concern that the U.S. military runs the risk of being seen as political. As being used as a political backdrop in what are basically campaign-style
appearances. And what the mill takes a lot of effort to be seen as non- political, non-partisan. Not to say individual members don't have political views. But as an institution, they tend to shy away from
appearances that look like campaign rallies. Here at the pentagon President Trump started off speaking very somberly about the recent loss of
U.S. personnel in Syria. Talking about missile defense. He did veer into the border, very strongly criticized his Democratic opponents in Congress
and talked about those negotiations over a potential border wall. So again, a situation where the military does not necessarily want to be in is
to be seen as to be participating in a political event. He did go back to talk about this whole defense. New potential investments in space, space
missile sensors, even space-based interceptor missiles. Again, this kind of concern, long concern in front of a military that President Trump could
be eroding some of these safeguards and at least avoid the appearance of partisanship within the armed forces.
GORANI: And briefly, any mention of the Syria withdrawal after the death of the service members in northern Syria? Because the President went on
and on justifying his decision by claiming that ISIS was defeated. ISIS has claimed responsibility for this suicide attack and a part of Syria that
is liberated from ISIS.
BROWNE: Well, that's absolutely correct. And Manbij in northern Syria has been liberated some time ago. There are ISIS sleeper cells. U.S.
officials telling me the U.S. believes that the United States believes that ISIS was behind this attack. That a sleeper cell carried out this deadly
attack that left two U.S. military members dead and defense contractor and a defense civilian employee. So again, ISIS is very much still there. The
administration had very much said that ISIS was defeated, that this withdrawal would continue. President Trump did not address the withdrawal
at the Pentagon today, despite it being his first visit there since he announced it. But we are being told that the administration no plans to
reverse course with regards to a Syrian withdrawal. That it is proceeding at pace.
[14:15:00] Military officials telling us some equipment has been taken out as a part of this withdrawal. Again, negotiations ongoing with U.S.
partners on the ground, both Kurdish, Arab, Turkey, as to what this withdrawal will look like and what kind of time line we are actually
looking at, still very much unanswered questions at this time.
GORANI: Sure. Thanks very much, Ryan Browne in Washington.
A lot more to come, some dramatic images of Prince Philip's car accident. Many here in the UK are breathing a sigh of relief the 90-year-old Royal is
uninjured.
After the Brexit drama, it's time for plan B. But what is it going to be? Richard Quest is with me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, let's bring you breaking news here in the United Kingdom, the Duke Of Edinburgh, the Queen's husband has been involved in a car crash
day. I Buckingham palace says he is not been injured though. Let's bring in Anna Stewart with the very latest. Anna, we saw dramatic images of this
Range Rover on its side. Those are some of the latest images we saw. What happened?
ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This happened this afternoon, near the Sandringham Estate where they had been staying since
Christmas. You see the car on its side. It looks like a fairly serious car accident involving two vehicles. Thankfully, Prince Philip is not
injured. This is what we heard from the palace. He wants to see a doctor within Sandringham Estate.
He's got the all clear. He is OK. I imagine this has been fairly shocking. It would be for anyone let alone if you are 97-years-old. There
were two people in the other vehicle. They have been treated for minor injuries according to a newspaper. Nothing more serious despite very
dramatic footage.
GORANI: Was he driving?
STEWART: He was He has been driving the car, himself. He has been known to drive cars. If it is a fiddle some would say as is the Queen. She rode
a horse less than a year ago and she is 92. They keep active, this couple. Very dramatic accident. Hopefully, he's not too shaken up by it all.
GORANI: Do we know how it happened?
STEWART: We don't have any more details on that right now. If you look at the photo there, it's on a main road, it's on and A road, which is a very
big road, just less than a motorway really, it's near a junction, so all we can gather is it's near a junction, two cars. We don't have more
information at the moment. It seems to be just one car colliding into another.
GORANI: Was he alone in the car?
STEWART: He had protection with him, as he always does, but he was the one that was driving it. No one else was injured in the accident.
[14:20:00] GORANI: All right. Anna Stewart. Thank you very much. More updates on that breaking news.
After two days of Brexit drama? What next? Your guess is as good as mine. We had the worst defeat of a government ever, and then the government
surviving a no confidence vote. Now Britain is scrambling to find a version of a deal that will get through Parliament. Prime Minister Theresa
May have been meeting lawmakers. Most of them. One important person missing is the Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn. He says he won't meet her
until she takes the idea of a no deal right off the table.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, LABOUR PARTY LEADER: If the Prime Minister actually concedes with a no deal Brexit is actually the most dangerous and damaging
thing to our country and our society. So, I say to the Prime Minister again, she may be listening, Prime Minister, simply do this. Take it off
the table. Take it off the table now so we can go forward in a sensible way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, of course, there is a lot we don't know. But we do know one thing. This is May's plan B, whatever that will be. It will be debated
January 29th. So, we have a few weeks to breathe here at the London bureau. So, we've seen the drama play out in Westminster. What are people
around the country thinking of the latest Brexit maneuverings? Phil Black is asking people about their views in Sunderland which voted heavily to
leave.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On Brexit referendum night, Sunderland was the city that first signaled Brexit is coming. The first result was
the first big count with 61 percent of the voters backing the leave campaign. This was once a major ship building port. Coal mines report
here, too. That's all in the past. It's modern history like much of northeast England has been defined by struggle and deprivation. People
here will tell you they voted for Brexit for many of the same reasons you hear around the country. Self-determination or control of immigration
policy. But there is also an overwhelming disillusionment with British politicians. The belief the city and its people have often been forgotten
by and hurt by those making policy decisions in London. People here said they voted for Brexit because politicians had stopped listening to them.
The lack of progress in delivering Brexit has only fueled that frustration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a disaster. They should've had done. They should have been finished. We're disgraced. Disgraced. We are arguing amongst
ourselves instead of getting it done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we should all get together, Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems, the Ulster Party, all get together put their views
across and ask what they want and what Brexit should be.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Theresa May to do her job, really. Yes.
BLACK: So, you think Theresa May should be allowed to get on with it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BLACK: If Theresa May can't get a deal through, what should she do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think anybody knows, politicians don't know. Do they? They are all fighting. We must look ridiculous all over the
world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I'm on public transport, most people turn around and say, it doesn't matter which way the vote, because they are just going
to do whatever they are going to do.
BLACK: The biggest employer here is now Nissan the Japanese car maker. It's a massive production plant, supply plain and logistics. It's all
built around the easy movement of parts from Europe and finished cars to Europe. Ever since the referendum, there has been concern about its
future. Concern this city has a lot to lose in the event of a messy, chaotic Brexit. Phil Black, CNN, Sunderland, England.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Big business has been weighing in to the debate, in the last 24 hours. Richard Quest has been following this story with me the last couple
days. Thankfully in the warmth of the London studio this evening. Philip Hammond the Chancellor of the Exchequer is telling business leaders
according to a report the threat of no deal is off the table. He is trying to reassure them, tell them not to really panic at this point, right?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: This is a transcript released of the conversation that he had with business leaders on the morning immediately after. But
it's not quite as clear cut as that. He says no deal will be put forward. But he doesn't say the government can put it forward. He says a back-bench
MP has to put it to an amendment. He is quite clear about this. That no - - as far as he's concerned and the government or well no deal is the way forward. Which is interesting, because Theresa May today flatly refuses to
take no deal off the table.
GORANI: Let me ask you this. Why not? Really, there is an overwhelming consensus. This is not a political opinion. There is an overwhelming
consensus that no deal will be a disaster for the economy.
QUEST: Because, Hala.
[14:25:00] GORANI: So why not take it off the table? That's like saying I'm not taking stabbing myself in the palm of my hand off the table?
What's the point? Try to reassure business?
QUEST: Because at some point in the next month or three the Prime Minister is going to have to go back to Brussels and she's going to have to say,
this is the mess. You're facing no deal.
GORANI: It will hurt the U.K. more than it will hurt the EU.
QUEST: It's not a negotiating point.
GORANI: It's like cutting your nose off to spite your face.
QUEST: It's the nuclear option. If she takes it off the table, what are the Europeans going to say? Well, we don't need to give you anything else,
at the end of the day. I will give you an example, France, the French Prime Minister announced he is activating and moving to high gear with
France's no deal preparations for the ports on the northwest of France.
GORANI: They don't want to get stuck with miles and miles of lorries and trucks and problems getting their goods in and out.
QUEST: He said the plans are there. Now we're going to start executing them.
GORANI: But the thing, if you look at currency markets, they're usually a good gauge, the pound is back up, it does seem as though investors are not
panicking about the idea of no deal. We are back up almost 1 percent --
QUEST: It's all factored in. It's bewildering. They're fooling themselves. A, they believe it will never happen. B, they believe if it
does happen, that it will be a managed no Brexit deal. And, C, they are setting themselves up for a fall if the worst happens.
GORANI: Why would it happen when a majority of Parliamentarians, the balance in Parliament is clearly in favor of avoiding the no deal
catastrophe?
QUEST: You can't just take no deal off the table. Because if you take no deal off the table --
GORANI: I know the negotiating strategy.
QUEST: Because if you take no deal off the table and the law says on the 29th of March, the U.K. leaves.
GORANI: Sure.
QUEST: If you take no deal off the table, then what happens if there is nothing in place on the 29th of March?
GORANI: You have to extend, there is obviously going to be, and I think there is a consensus building that you need to extend the negotiations.
QUEST: Take the no deal off the table.
GORANI: You would have to. You have no deal by March 29th, then it's off the table. Then automatically you have to quickly come up with a solution
to extend the talks. Don't you?
QUEST: I agree. But you have -- you can't have the 29th legal deadline and take no deal off the table.
GORANI: All right.
QUEST: I mean, I got to sum it up in the words of Peter Goodman last night from the "New York Times". He said, how many ways can we say no one has
any idea how this is going to go?
GORANI: That's true. I don't think MP --
QUEST: No!
GORANI: You had as many answers as you had MPs yesterday. We've spoken to --
QUEST: We just got --
GORANI: Exactly.
QUEST: You're not satisfied with my answer on no deal?
GORANI: No, I am satisfied. I just think I'm less of the view I think that this is a realistic option going forward. Anyway, we'll see, we'll
know soon enough. Still to come tonight, we have this terrible news that happened in Kenya. The terrorists behind the attack say why they did it
and we have a live report from Nairobi for you. We'll be right back.
[14:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:10] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Now some breaking news from Washington. The bitter fight over the U.S. government shutdown is
escalating with an apparent tit for tat. We've just learned that President Donald Trump has sent the top House Democrat a letter saying he is
canceling Nancy Pelosi's trip to Belgium, Egypt and Afghanistan.
That's, of course, after Nancy Pelosi essentially disinvited the president from making his annual State of the Union address in the halls of Congress.
CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill with more. And the letter begins, Manu, "Due to the shutdown, I'm sorry to inform you that your trips to
Brussels, Egypt and Afghanistan has been postponed."
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: -- remarkable letter goes on to say that if she wants to continue with this trip, this trip
overseas, then she will have to fly commercial.
Now, the reason why the president may have -- is taking this rather unprecedented action is because she can fly -- she typically flies on a
military jet overseas. Especially if she's going into a warzone like Afghanistan. Let alone, it's highly unusual to publicize someone of this
magnitude going to a warzone. Typically, you discuss that after the fact.
But the president's letter publicizing that fact. And the fact that she does tend to fly on a military aircraft suggests that the president may be
trying to use his leverage overseeing the United States military to prevent her from flying on a military to those destinations. Instead, saying that
she should do this commercially.
Now, no response yet from the speaker, but this is all in response to the speaker's request from yesterday that the president should delay the State
of the Union, the annual address here in the United States, after the government is reopened.
The White House has not responded to that yet. Some of his colleagues here on Capitol Hill have urged him to consider other venues to do it. Perhaps,
still come up to the House and demand that he speak in front of the full House (INAUDIBLE) was going to do.
So this is the first official response, a tit for tat for sorts and leaving big questions going forward about what it means for all this and, of
course, the fact that the partial government shutdown is still ongoing as we head into day 30 and beyond.
GORANI: Yes. And explain to our international viewers. The speaker of the House has the power to cancel a State of the Union address in this way
to completely cancel it or compel the president to deliver it in another location?
RAJU: Yes, because the speaker is in charge of the House Chamber. This is -- this is where the president delivers the speech before a joint session
of Congress, before the United States House and United States Senate. They file into the House Chamber, which is big enough to accommodate both bodies
of 535 members. And the speaker makes a decision about whether or not to allow this to go forward.
They actually have to formally vote to allow this to happen as to vote on both the House and the Senate have to agree to have a joint session of
Congress, so the president will have to come here.
If the speaker does not want to move forward on that resolution, she doesn't have to. So the president is really has to listen to whatever she
ultimately decides to do. She has not officially said she's canceling it. But she's saying she wants to delay it until afterwards.
And I tried to ask her today about the White House's contention that this could be a secure event according to Department of Homeland Security even
with the government shutdown. She said, well, maybe President Trump doesn't want to pay his employees, but we do.
So she is making a very political argument going forward saying reopen the government, then we can talk about this address. And the president here
responding in kind, Hala.
GORANI: And quickly on that point. In this letter, the president is essentially revealing the fact that Nancy Pelosi was planning a trip to
Afghanistan. Typically, those trips are not publicized with high-level officials.
RAJU: Yes.
GORANI: Did he just reveal a secret?
RAJU: Yes. I wasn't aware of it. I think a lot of people on Capitol Hill were not aware of it. The speaker has not said that she was going forward
with the trip to Afghanistan. Typically, after the fact, they will say that they're there or maybe even while they are on the ground.
So this is highly, highly unusual. It raises a question if she can move forward with it. But the speaker's office tells me they are going to
respond to it. They just have not done that yet at this moment. They probably are learning about this letter just like the rest of us are via
Twitter, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Manu Raju, thanks very much. We learn so much on Twitter these days.
Now, the terrorists who planned the brutal attack on a Kenyan hotel are now saying why they did it. Al-Shabaab says the massacre was designed to
punish the United States for moving its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.
This surveillance video shows moments after the attack started. One American was among the 21 killed. Al-Shabaab is a Somali group with links
to Al-Qaeda.
[14:35:06] Now, with more on the attack and the aftermath, here's Sam Kiley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go.
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Trapped by terrorists in a luxury hotel compound.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Down (INAUDIBLE) no.
Gunmen pick off victims. Dozens of civilians flee the carnage claimed by the Somali-based terror group, al-Shabaab.
British Special Forces were training Kenyans and rushed to help. But many people were trapped in the Dusit Hotel complex, using their phones to call
for help.
SAM MATTOCK, DIRECTOR, HALLIDAY FINCH SECURITY: I got the call. I jumped in the vehicle with two of my friends and work colleagues and went across
214 Riverside where we got right to the front of the gate.
KILEY: How did you get your guys out?
MATTOCK: The GSU got into the building we were in, and got them all of the whole crew in that building out. Everyone is helping everyone. There were
security professionals, the Kenyan Red Cross, they were in there in every single building with and without armed protection.
KILEY: Rescues went on throughout the 20-hour gun battle, which ended when terrorists were finally killed.
MOAMUD YASSIN JAMA, SURVIVE AL-SHABAAB TERROR ATTACK: My main thought were, I was afraid but don't stay (INAUDIBLE), don't fall out into this.
Make sure you (INAUDIBLE).
KILEY: In the end, 700 people escaped the complex, at least 21 did not. Among them, Mouamud's (ph) two friends.
JAMA: We started asking ourselves, where are they, where they?
KILEY: Ibaizel and Abdullah (ph) was shot dead inside the hotel over lunch. Both were ethnic Somalis, both worked for an aid agency, serving
Somalia.
AHMED RASHIC DAHIR, FATHER OF AL-SHABAAB'S VICTIM: His wife is expecting (INAUDIBLE) pregnant.
KILEY: I'm so sorry.
DAHIR: He's a young boy.
KILEY: So, he's expecting his first child.
DAHIR: His child, yes.
KILEY: Ahmed, like so many other Kenyans caught in this tragedy, is left to mourn and pray that another attack never comes.
Sam Kiley, CNN, Nairobi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Let's talk now with Farai Sevenzo who is live in Nairobi.
Any more on the investigation here and trying to get to the -- I'm sorry, you're actually on the phone. I understand. But trying to get to the --
to the leadership figures that are sending these terrorists out to kill innocence.
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So all of this horrible events of this week, they have made six arrests. There's all kinds of
manner of soul-searching, as you can imagine with the Kenyan nation.
On local TV, they're calling it a Tuesday of heroes. And now, they are talking about how it is that members of their own community carried out
this attack.
Obviously, the news is just starting to come in very slowly about who they were, the perpetrators of that horrible attack at the Dusit Hotel complex.
We know also that we are hearing incredible stories of bravery. One man we spoke to is a young man. He knew his sister was stuck in that hotel. And
he joined and volunteered for the Kenyan Red Cross society so he could get her out. He joined them and he followed them too with the -- with the
security forces who are helping the Red Cross to evacuate people.
We now know that some 700 people got out. We also know that 21 were killed.
But now, as I said earlier, the whole operation moves to the reasons and the soul-searching and who was it who perpetrated this? Yes, of course, as
Sam said in this piece, al-Shabaab claimed that they did this because they were angry at Mr. Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as a captain -- capital
of Israel.
We know that al-Shabaab tends to make reasons after the fact of their bloody violence. So, at the moment Kenya is at peace on my left here. All
the buildings are lit up in the colors of the Kenyan flag. And, of course, the president has praised his people for handling this so well.
Of course, if you compare it, Hala, just one more point, to six years ago, when that awful Westgate Mall more tragedy unfolded. That ceased to days
and days by all standards by that comparison. The events of January the 15th seems to have gone better.
GORANI: All right. Farai Sevenzo, thanks very much, live in Nairobi.
You may remember, I spoke with the NBA player, Enes Kanter. Well, last week, I believe, Turkey is seeking an international arrest warrant for him
now.
[14:40:01] Prosecutors say Kanter is a part of a terrorist organization that they claim was behind a failed 2016 coup in Turkey. Kanter denies
that. He says he's being targeted because he's criticized the Turkish president, Erdogan.
Kanter twitted that Turkey has no evidence of wrongdoing on his part, not even a parking ticket. And with a clip of him doing a slam dunk, Kanter
says the only thing I terrorize is the rim.
You remember that I spoke to Kanter, hopefully, last week, after he said he would not be playing with the New York Knicks in London because he was
worried about assassination. Here's what he said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ENES KANTER, TURKISH BASKETBALL PLAYER: I'm scared of my life because of Erdogan's operation in foreign country. It's very -- the operations are
very famous of hunting down people who are speaking out against the government. I have been getting, you know, hundreds and hundreds of death
threats, you know, almost every day. And then I understand those are death threats. But, you know, it's just very scary to get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was Enes Kanter. His teammates are in London. While they are here playing, he's been meeting with U.S. senators. There's Marco
Rubio to make them aware of the situation.
Still to come tonight, workers say inside this General Motors plant in the U.S., they face racial slurs, intimidation and threats to their lives and
it all happened just last year. Stay with us for some of the shocking details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: More than half a dozen black employees at a GM plant in the U.S. say they're facing racist threats and intimidation at work. Their evidence
is laid out in a lawsuit with pictures of nooses, "Whites Only" signs, and racial slurs they say just showed up inside the plant.
While GM says it takes discrimination and intimidation seriously and is doing all they can to get rid of the problem, a state law enforcement
agency has ruled GM is not doing enough.
Sara Sidner has this story. But we want to warn you, you'll hear racial slurs and disturbing and offensive language in this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day he walked into work. Marcus Boyd prayed he'd survive his shift unscathed.
MARCUS BOYD, FORMER SUPERVISOR, GENERAL MOTORS TRANSMISSION OPERATIONS: I felt like I was at war, risking my life every day --
SIDNER: Derrick Brooks, a former Marine, worked in the same place. Both were supervisors on different shifts at the General Motors transmission
plant in Toledo, Ohio.
Brooks considers himself tough from his military training, but he struggled to handle what was happening at work.
DERRICK BROOKS, FORMER SUPERVISOR, GENERAL MOTORS TRANSMISSION OPERATIONS: How rough and tough can you be when you've got 11 or 12 people who want to
put a noose around your neck and hang you until you're dead?
SIDNER: There's a reason he brings up nooses. It's not just a figure of speech.
BROOKS: This is the other picture of the noose that I found the night that I was at work on my shift.
SIDNER: According to a lawsuit now pending against GM, this is one of at least five nooses discovered at their workplace in separate incidents.
[14:45:02] The suit also claims there were signs that blacks were not welcome there. "Whites Only" scrawled on a bathroom wall, along with
swastikas on bathroom stalls and "Niggers Not Allowed" scratched or written on bathroom walls.
BROOKS: This was saying you don't belong here. This was saying if you stay here, this is what could possibly happen to you.
SIDNER: In this struggling town, Brooks and Boyd, didn't want to leave their six-figure jobs. Brooks has eight children; Boyd takes care of his
mother, who was an amputee.
Now, they and seven others have sued GM for allowing an underlying atmosphere of violent racial hate and bullying.
SIDNER (on camera): When did you notice overt racism?
BOYD: Well, when I -- an employee that was under me, he told me that back in the day, a person like me would have been buried with a shovel.
SIDNER: He said what to you?
BOYD: That was a death threat and I was told to push that to the side.
SIDNER (voice-over): Boyd says he reported the incident.
BOYD: He admitted to it and I was pulled to the side and said you know, if you want to build relationships here, you know, you just let things go.
He'll be all right.
SIDNER: But he says the threats got worse.
SIDNER (on camera): Were you afraid for your life?
BOYD: Definitely. That's why I left.
SIDNER (voice-over): When the noose appeared in March of 2017, Derrick Brooks says he reported it to upper management. He was sure he was the
intended target but says he was told to investigate by questioning his employees.
BROOKS: It felt like a slap in the face. It did. But I had to be professional.
SIDNER: Brooks and other black employees also noticed being called "Dan."
BROOKS: I thought they just were mispronouncing my name for Derrick. Then later, I find out that Dan was an acronym for "Dumbass Nigger."
SIDNER: General Motors sent us a statement insisting "Discrimination and harassment are not acceptable and in stark contrast to how they expect
people to show up at work. We treat any reported incident with sensitivity and urgency, and are committed to providing an environment that is safe,
open, and inclusive."
SIDNER (on camera): And, that every day, everyone at General Motors is expected to uphold the values that are an integral part of its culture.
But according to more than a half-dozen current and former black employees, the problem is the culture. They say inside this plant, racism and
harassment are the norm, not the exception.
BROOKS: It is a culture -- it is.
BOYD: It's a culture.
BROOKS: Yes.
BOYD: And you have to -- it's from the top down and the bottom up.
SIDNER (voice-over): One employee filed a police report, others filed complaints with the Ohio Civil Rights Commission prior to filing suit.
DARLENE SWEENEY-NEWBERN, DIRECTOR OF REGIONAL OPERATIONS, OHIO CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION: The ultimate decision that was made is that GM did allow a
racially hostile environment.
SIDNER (on camera): They allege they investigated quickly and have done a remedial thing to take care of the problem.
SWEENEY-NEWBERN: The Commission disagrees with that position. GM did not do very much at all. Or what they did do was not effective.
SIDNER (voice-over): GM says that they held mandatory meetings and even closed the plant for a day for training and to address the issue with every
shift.
The Civil Rights Commission report noted a former union president's testimony that during one of those meetings, a white supervisor said, "Too
big of a deal was being made of the nooses. After all, there was never a black person who was lynched that didn't deserve it."
The lawsuit alleges that supervisor was never disciplined.
BOYD: General Motors is supposed to stand for something, right? That's the great American company. Well, what are you doing about this?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And Sara joins me now. Sara, this is just bewildering it happened in 2017, 2018. And some of these employees reported the noose and other
things and slurs and racial slurs. So, why did it keep going after that -- keep going on, I should say?
SIDNER: That's a good question and that's the question that both GM says it's trying to get to the bottom of. But also this Ohio commission on
civil rights, which by the way is a law enforcement agency. They actually have the right to go into the plant to gather e-mails. They had thousands
of pages of documents in this.
They interviewed many, many people. And they determined that GM simply did not do enough to try and deal with this problem that was clear and present
inside of that plant.
And I do want to relay this to you. We learned just yesterday that another threat was made against one of the employees that's involved in this suit.
A black employee.
GORANI: Right.
SIDNER: And that is as recent as a day ago.
GORANI: Wow. Unbelievable. Sara Sidner, thanks very much for that great report. Eye-opening report. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:12] GORANI: A diet that could save the planet. It sounds good. It saves the planet, by the way, and it's also good for you. So it's pretty
much an ideal diet. But would you do it, even if it involved cutting back on some of your favorite foods?
An international team of scientists has developed a diet heavy on fruit and veg which they say can save lives by improving health and limiting damage
to the planet as well.
There are some of the key points making waves. You can eat just 14 grams of beef, lamb or pork a day. That translates roughly to just a bite of
sausage or a small bite of a burger.
If you like starchy vegetables like potatoes, and I love them. It's 50 grams. That's about a third of your average potato or just a half a
portion of fries. What's the point?
There is some room for sugar if you have a sweet tooth about the equivalent of almost an entire can of full sugar Coke.
So, how does this all translate into a balanced diet? It would certainly require changes to diets in many corners of the world.
Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins me now from Atlanta. So just to sum it up, essentially, if you look at a pie chart, half of what
you eat should be basically vegetables and a tiny sliver red meat and the rest, grains and other types of healthy foods like that. We don't eat like
that right now.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. I mean, a lot of people don't, Hala, I mean, you're sort of joking about it. What's the
point of certain categories?
But look, I mean, the point that they're making and it's not entirely a new point is that, as you said, this is not only good for individuals, it's
good for societies and it's good for the planet.
And I think what's interesting about this planetary diet, as they're calling it, a great name is that they're putting some data now behind this.
They're saying if the world -- which by the way you got a billion people around the world who don't have enough to eat and you have two billion
around the world who constantly eat too much, right? So there's that disparity.
But they say if this planetary diet were adopted widely, you'd start to prevent, you know, 10 to 11 million premature deaths a year. Because
you're talking about a diet that's going to be better for heart disease, for diabetes. In terms of preventing stroke.
But they also say that the impact on the environment is considerable.
You know, one of the things that always strikes me is you talk about a pound of beef. A single pound of beef. To eat a pound of beef. How much
water does the planet need to give up in order to make that happen? And the answer is about 1,800 gallons for a single pound.
GORANI: Wow.
GUPTA: So you start to think about major cities, Hala, that you reported on that are suffering from drought, water being something that's a
commodity. The planet can't sustain that sort of usage anymore.
GORANI: And I want to put that pie chart back up. Because medically speaking, I think people would be concerned. I don't know if they have
right to be. That if they don't eat meat or they eat much less meat, they won't get the protein they need. Should they be concerned?
GUPTA: Well, you know, if you think about protein. Obviously, there's animal protein and there's protein that can you get from other sources,
vegetables. A lot of vegetables, broccoli, for example, has a significant amount of protein.
People have found that they can get adequate protein if they up their intake of certain fruits and vegetables. The problem, I think, in part is,
while the protein argument always comes up, is that people simply aren't replacing enough of that with enough fruits and vegetables.
The several servings a day that it would take to actually create that pie chart that you saw there. So it does allow room for some meat. Very
little beef, little bit of lamb. Things like that.
But overall, doing the math. Looking at the diet, looking at the impact on disease, they say it's not only a healthy diet for individuals but it's a
healthy diet for the planet.
GORANI: Also, it keeps your weight down clearly if you look at, even though it's the same number of calories. You're not eating all that
processed stuff if you can help it.
[14:55:07] Americans, according to the report, eat 638 percent of their ideal quantity of red meat on a daily basis on average. So it really
requires a huge cultural shift.
GUPTA: I think if you look across the globe, it's basically -- at least in the short term, cutting down red meat and cutting own sugar by half. Just
think of that as the immediate sort of thing that would need to be done right away.
And as you cut that stuff down by half, you need to up the calories that you're getting from those other sources.
But look, there's a lot -- the North America were terrible about meat. Six-and-a-half times what we should be eating. Starchy vegetables are very
commonly eaten in South Asia. There's going to need to be this sort of equality with regard to calories, where they're coming from around the
world. We simply can't eat that -- continue to eat that much red meat in North America.
But as a starting point, and I think it's very reasonable considering how much we overeat these things, cutting the red meat and cutting the sugar
down by half really makes a huge difference.
By the way, can I show you another graphic really quick, Hala?
GORANI: Sure. Yes.
GUPTA: This made a point. If you look at -- if cattle were essentially its own country, look at -- look at the amount of gas -- greenhouse gas
emissions come from cattle alone. Cattle alone in its own country is almost the same as the United States, third after China and the United
States. So that's another tangible reason why we probably need to be eating less beef.
GORANI: All right. Well, thanks for -- I've actually stopped. I have to go. I'm being yelled at. But I've actually almost pretty much stopped
eating red meat. You replaced it with fish, with white meat and it's delicious.
But anyway, thank you very much, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. As always, appreciate having you on the program. And thanks to all of you for watching. I'm
Hala Gorani. Do stay with us. There's a lot more ahead.
In a few minutes, it will be Richard with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
