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Hala Gorani Tonight
U.S.-Backed Forces Capture ISIS Fighters Behind Bombing; Facebook Struggles To Remove Video Of Massacre; Trump To Hold Joint News Conference With Bolsonaro. Aired 1-2p ET
Aired March 19, 2019 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:00:00] HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from London. I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight the message from the EU this hour, we're prepared for
a no deal Brexit. The very latest.
Also, this hour, recently unsealed documents reveal the extent of Michael Cohen's illegal activities. And a cyclone triggers a massive disaster in
southern Africa. We will bring you the very latest live from the ground.
We begin with another twist in the chaos that is Brexit. It's ten days until Britain is scheduled to leave the EU. And in the last hour the
European Union's chief Brexit negotiator has given Theresa May another big headache.
Michel Barnier says that Europe can't prolong Brexit without a useful reason for doing so. This comes as the Prime Minister is expected to write
to Europe in the next 24 hours. Old school. With a plan to delay Brexit past the March 29th deadline. With Britain in a state of paralysis,
political paralysis and the EU's patience seemingly wearing thin, where do we go next? Bianca Nobilo is in Westminster. Erin McLaughlin is in
Brussels.
Before we get to you, Erin, this is more of what the chief negotiator had so say when he spoke in English just minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHEL BARNIER, EU CHIEF NEGOTIATOR: If Prime Minister May requests such an extension before European Council on Thursday, it will be to assess the
reason and the usefulness for an extension. They'll need a concrete plan in other words to be able to make an informed decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The EU is saying we'll consider granting you an extension but we won't guarantee it at this stage.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, LONDON BUREAU: That's what he's saying. Hala, his remarks were made at the conclusion of the
general affairs council which is the meeting of European ministers that paves the way for the formal summit expected here on Thursday. For the
very first time all 27 EU leaders will gather in a room and consider together the question of a Brexit extension and from I'm hearing, there's
far from a consensus view on this topic especially with respect to a potential request for a long term extension. Sharing the view of the chief
coordinator for Parliament as well as other member states that Theresa May needs to put forward a concrete plan as to what a long term extension would
be for. He gave an example in that press conference today that she could ask for a long term extension to allow more time for the re-working of the
political declaration that sets out the relationship between the U.K. and EU. That's something they long signaled they will work on. What they're
not willing to do is re-negotiate the withdrawal agreement. This is a contrasting view. We're hearing something different from the President of
the European council. He is saying he would consider a longer term for something less specific. To allow the U.K. to reach a consensus view when
it comes to Brexit. Two different views at this point leading into that summit on Thursday.
GORANI: All right. There's more than two different views at Westminster. What kind of extension will the Prime Minister ask for? A short-term one
or a long-term one?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's a discussion about whether or not the Prime Minister will aim for that short extension of somewhere
around six to ten weeks or longer which would stretch into the vicinity of a year or year and a half. It's whether or not the Prime Minister would be
able to secure a shorter extension or get a longer extension. This all is the level of confusion we're all living in here. I would say I spoke to
the chair of the Brexit committee a couple of hours ago and I asked him what would be best for Britain to ask for. What would help find a
resolution, short or long extension?
[13:05:00] He said it doesn't matter. He said it's critical to avoid no deal. That's his position. He said the key question that comes before
that is when will the government move its position. Unless they are willing to do that and move towards a position with clear consensus in the
House of Commons in the issue of extension is not fantastic.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much. Erin, quick last one to you. A delay could come at a cost to the UK. What would that cost be?
MCLAUGHLIN: Based on conversations I've been having here, there's a couple of conditions for a potential extension. The main condition being that the
United Kingdom will need to participate in Parliamentary elections which are expected in may. That is seen as an absolute must. If they don't do
that, that could call into question a European Parliament as well as all EU institutions being challenged in court at that point. The other sort of
main condition I'm detecting from other EU officials is that the U.K. would need to agree that there would be no further negotiations on the withdrawal
agreement itself. Those negotiations are closed. Any extension would not include re-opening the negotiations of that withdrawal agreement as they
suspect some lawmakers in the U.K. would be more than wanting to do should a long term extension be granted.
GORANI: Erin, thanks very much. James joins me now from Westminster. He's the editor for "The Financial Times." Doesn't it seem like the EU is
holding all the cards right now?
JAMES BLITZ, EDITOR, "THE FINANCIAL TIMES": Yes. In many ways the EU does hold the cards because the situation is so confused. I think we're looking
at two options. Either one Mrs. May will get her deal through the House of Commons. We're looking at a short extension that goes up to June 30th
or she isn't. In which case we're looking at a longer extension that allows the British to go back to square one and work out what they want to
do.
GORANI: What would the longer extension mean for the Brexit process. Could it put Brexit itself in jeopardy?
BLITZ: It could. If we had a long extension, it was agreed at the end of the month there would still be an opportunity to try to get Mrs. May deal
across the line one more time in April. The moment when we make a firm commitment to participate in the European Parliament elections is April
11th, April 12th. It's a little gap there. Assuming that Mrs. May's deal is dead, then you're looking at a wide range of possibilities for the way
forward. It least us in the customs for good or it could be the second referendum that reverses the decision. All those are possibilities. The
second referendum still doesn't have that much support in the House of Commons.
GORANI: The EU is ready for a no deal. Are they really ready?
BLITZ: Not really, no. It's true the European countries, France, Belgium, which will be directly affected because of their proximity to the U.K. have
taken a lot of preparation but a no deal Brexit, especially no week, in the view of most economic expert be a very serious event with enormous
implications for the UK economy but also for the Europeans as well. I don't think one can take that to seriously.
GORANI: Thanks very much. Appreciate your time.
Now to a show of solidarity between two men who see eye to eye on many things. Donald Trump and a leader sometimes called the Trump of the
tropics. Mr. Trump is hosting far right Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro at the White House. It's the first time the leaders of the western
hemisphere's two biggest economies have met face-to-face. The talks give Mr. Trump a chance to change the subject as new revelations emerge about
the investigation into his former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen. Let's bring in Boris Sanchez. They exchanged football jerseys or soccer jerseys.
They also talked about trade and a whole bunch other things they would like to improve and increase.
[13:10:00] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. These two men appear to be on the same page in a number of issues, more
than just their personalities. Ambassador John Bolton said the meeting would be a tremendous opportunity for the two largest democracies and two
largest economies in the western hemisphere to consolidate their interests.
One has to do with Brazil status as a non-NATO ally. Meaning the United States could offer to sell the military equipment that designation would
allow. It's something that Brazil's President wants. And further the two of them talked about potentially having Brazil offer a site in that country
for the U.S. to launch rockets from.
Trade would be major issue between the two of them for discussion. He said he knew what he wanted to see happen in Venezuela but didn't want to
publicly say. Both of them populist who is have been accused of making sexists, racist, anti-immigrant statements in the past. President Trump
praised the election saying it appears that Brazil is moving in a good direction.
GORANI: Right. Did the President take any questions on the release of these Cohen documents that are search warrants essentially that were
unsealed showing exactly what Mueller investigators were looking for when they were looking into the President's former attorney?
SANCHEZ: Yes. These documents really eyebrow raising. It shows the extent of how far Robert Mueller is digging into Michael Cohen's past and
his ties to the President going back several years. The White House tried to distance themselves from Michael Cohen saying he has nothing to do with
the President. He didn't take any questions during the meeting about Cohen. It's unclear how far this investigation reaches into the Trump
organization and into Trump himself. Much of those documents were redacted. The President is expected to take questions along side the
Brazilian President in about an hour or so. He may be asked that there. We'll see what he says.
GORANI: Thanks very much. As you mentioned, we're expecting that news conference. We'll take it live on CNN when it happens.
Let's get more on the revelations involving President Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen. A treasure-trove of court documents were unsealed.
Giving us a look at what investigators were looking for. We know Mueller has been digging back into Cohen's e-mails dating back to 2015. Talk to
us, what are the most significant revelations from these documents?
ELLIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think one of the biggest revelations is the timing here. Michael Cohen first came on the public consciousness as a
potential target of criminal charges when FBI executed search warrants in dramatic fashion on his home and hotel room which was about a year ago now.
Robert Mueller and the southern district had been digging into a lot of different aspects of Michael Cohen's life for almost a year before that.
The first of these warrants happened in July of 2017. There was a lot that led up to that raid. I think it's eye opening to these raids.
GORANI: Why is it significant they have gone that far back?
HONIG: It shows you what federal investigators and period of timers do. You'll see they were on Michael Cohen's phone records. They were on his
bank records, e-mail, his iCloud. This is before they went in and did the search warrants on his property. It's sort of a lesson that you learn when
you are a federal prosecutor which is you have to dig up every fact you can about your target and then sift it out and see what's a criminal and what's
not. Clearly that was done with Michael Cohen. What we saw was the culmination of the first investigation that led us to new levels.
[13:15:02] GORANI: Is this why, potentially, when investigators confronted Michael Cohen and told him they had all this information that he had no
choice but to cooperate?
HONIG: You can bet on that. That's the way you get people to cooperate. The more evidence you can put in front of a target, the more you can
convince the target they have nowhere else to run. The more likely they are to cooperate. Cooperation is about self-interest. If they were able
to put the documents in front of Michael Cohen, especially the e-mail, that may have led him to flip.
GORANI: Why would a judge grant these requests to execute the search warrants? What is be probable cause. Why would investigators have been so
easily able to convince the judge to do this?
HONIG: You have to have the proof. You have to have the goods in order to get a search warrant. This is an important point because Donald Trump and
Rudy Giuliani have suggested there was something unlawful about this since they said they broke into Cohen's home. You have to go through a specific
legal process. You have to go to a federal judge and lay out probable causes and show you have some good reason to think this person is involved
in crimes and there will be evidence of the crimes in the these locations. And that is what these 200 something page document is.
They laid it out in excruciating fashion. I have done search warrant applications that were one tenth this length. They had more than enough
probable cause.
GORANI: Because it's not just going into his Gmail. According to report, investigators requested permission to use his face id and fingerprints to
access his Apple devices. Although everyone wants law enforcement to be efficient and get to the bottom of things, as private citizens, you think
is it that easy to get permissions. I don't think they got it but the fact it's an option.
HONIG: There's always a balancing act between a person's privacy rights and need to conduct a criminal investigation. It's not easy to get their
phone records, e-mail and passwords. You have to make this showing to a judge. You can't say I kind of have some issues suspicions about this
person. It's not the highest level we have. Using these specific e-mails, phones, locations.
GORANI: Quick last one. When are we getting this -- when is this Mueller report coming out. Seems like every week it's this week.
HONIG: It's got to go to Attorney General Barr first. He will have the decision about whether and how to turn it over. It could be a bit still.
GORANI: Thanks very much.
Thousands of people feared dead in southern Africa after a cyclone so devastating, the U.N. said it could be the worst weather disaster ever to
hit the southern hemisphere.
The little sliver of land held by ISIS gets smaller and smaller. A report just ahead.
[13:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: We now go to Mozambique we thousand people are feared dead and what the United Nations says could be the worst weather related disaster
ever to hit the southern hemisphere. The devastating cyclone made landfall in Mozambique port city
Of Beira five days ago and carved path of destruction as it moved inland. We have the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Cyclone Idai slammed into southern Africa late last week cutting across countries and devastating
entire cities.
Biera, a city of half a million in Mozambique in the epicenter of the storm. Aid agencies say 90 percent of it is under water. It slammed into
the city with winds up to 175 kilometers or 110 miles an hour. Destroying hospitals and homes and killing untold numbers.
RAJINO PAULINO, CYCLONE VICTIM: Flying sheets of metal decapitated people. Some are in hospital. Some are somewhere else. We don't have any help
here. We don't have any help.
MCKENZIE: Some help is there are already there. Search and rescue teams working to get people to safety. The cyclone winds were bad enough. The
flooding is much worse said aide officials creating what they are calling an inland ocean. The threat will increase as more rain is to set in. The
airport is open but roads into the city are cut off and phone connections mostly down. Outside of Beira nobody knows how many people are dead or
injured, cut off entirely from help.
FILIPE JACINTO NYUSI, MOZAMBIQUE PRESIDENT: I spoke with the people and they are calm and aware of what is happening. They said water is a problem
and that we need to reinforce food supply and also medicines. MCKENZIE: The destructive path pummeled Mozambique, Malawi and Zimbabwe
with nearly 1.7 million people in its path. Communities are devastating. The storm destroyed roads, homes, bridges and communication lines. The
human loss is far greater.
PRAISE CHIPORE, CYCLONE VICTIM: My House was destroyed in floods my daughter who was with me in bed was washed away from me and a bigger flood
carried me farther away.
MCKENZIE: The true impact of the cyclone is only now emerging. The next step is to try to reach remote areas to save as many people as they can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Joining me on the phone from the capital is the country's UNICEF spokesperson. What's the situation where you are?
DANIEL TIMME, MOZAMBIQUE SPOKESPERSON, UNICEF: I'm in the capital, the capital is relatively untouched. The disaster area is in a situation which
we've never seen before. The hidden area which was already flooded before and hundreds and thousands of people who are already displaced got this on
the top of this. And you can imagine they are in a very desperate situation. And it is affecting in particular the most vulnerable and these
are children.
GORANI: Could you describe the worst hit areas?
TIMME: The cyclone hit pretty much at the city of Beira which is a city of 500,000 people. The city itself and also the surrounding area of five
districts is completely flooded. What is very challenging for us is that it was cut off from all communications but also from geographic access.
All roads are still impassable. We have managed to bring in first aid responders and assessment teams now by helicopter and the airport has
likely also open again. It will be very challenging to bring in goods now. We're working on that. Lots of people are without shelter right now and
they need once they are rescued, they need water purification and other lifesaving goods.
[14:25:00] GORANI: How many people and I know the leader of Mozambique said potentially a thousands people killed but how many people are homeless
with nowhere to go and most of their city under water, it seems.
TIMME: It's very difficult to talk about numbers. We share the concern of the Mozambique that the numbers might rise significantly and well over a
thousands people. It's very difficult to assess the situation. We're very worried. We need the support of the international community now.
GORANI: Just one last one on that point, you say you need support of the international community because clearly these people have immediate needs.
Are you not getting what you need? Talk to us about what you need.
TIMME: We have some prepositioned goods in the country and we can respond to the first couple of days. It gave them a sense of normality and
protection. You can imagine all these things will cost a lot of money and the united nations and development partners have made an appeal Friday of
$42 million which is very likely to rise now it's really unbelievable that such a large area can be flooded. It's not getting better. It's getting
worse because the rains are continuing and there's other problems. For the days to come we're very worried.
GORANI: Thank you very much from UNICEF and our viewers can go to the UNICEF website and CNN.com/impact. We have a list of vetted agencies.
Thanks very much.
Still to come tonight. A sick little boy in war zone and he's one of many. The dangerous and sad story of what life is like for orphans inside a camp
in Syria. A live report when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:30:13] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Well, it appears as though U.S.-backed forces in Syria have captured some of the ISIS fighters that
were behind the deadly suicide bombing back in January that killed 14 people in Manbij. You'll remember including four Americans who were there
patrolling.
It was the deadliest single incident for American forces in Syria since that particular conflict began. The ISIS fighters were caught as the
terrorist group continues to be pushed into a smaller and smaller pocket of territory.
Nearly 30,000 ISIS members and their families have fled the fighting between the terror group and U.S.-backed forces. Many of them have ended
up at the al-Hawl camp in Northern Syria.
The International Rescue Committee says since December, more than 100 children have died in that camp or on their way there. Jomana Karadsheh
looks at the difficult life inside al-Hawl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The aid worker coaxes a few words from the boy. His language classical Arabic.
The boy, Indonesian, growing up in ISIS' crumbling caliphate to parents who traveled across the world to voluntarily join the terror group and its
manmade hell. They didn't make it out. But in the last few days, he did. Along with eight other Indonesian orphans.
With no parents for us to ask permission from, we cannot show their faces. There are now 250 children at al-Hawl camp in Northern Syria who emerged
from the war against ISIS without families, without relatives.
SHERIN MURAD-ISMAIL, CHILD PROTECTION OFFICER, UNICEF: They arrived to the camp in the worst case or the worst form. Because they are injured, they
are traumatized, they are mentally -- I think they have also mental disorders.
KARADSHEH: In the tent next door, the impact of the horrors lived through their short lives play out in ways so painful to watch.
Aid agencies say children here have witnessed acts of brutality and were trapped under bombardment in Baghouz. They're now showing signs of
psychological distress including nightmares and withdrawal.
The vast majority in this overcrowded and underfunded camp are children. More than 40,000 of them stranded here. No one expected so many to pour
out of the half square mile that remains of ISIS' so-called caliphate.
NABIL HASAN, AL-HAWL CAMP OFFICIAL (through translator): This is an emergency, you have to help us fast. We have called on aid groups and
foreign governments to assist us, especially at Al-Hawl camp because this is going to turn into a disaster when it comes to things like health care,
and things like food and shelter.
KARADSHEH: The worry is outside aid will be slow to come for this camp associated with ISIS. The most helpless caught up in the politics of the
aid, they now so desperately cling to.
KARADSHEH (on-camera): Hamid is seven months old. He arrived from Baghouz on the 25th of February. And he was severely malnourished that UNICEF and
care providers here had to take him to a local hospital where he stayed for the past couple of weeks.
And right now, after treatment, we're being told that he weighs about 3.7 kilograms. That is how much a newborn would weigh.
The majority here never had a choice, ISIS' lethal legacy still defining their future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, CNN's Jomana Karadsheh there. Joining us now senior intentional correspondent, Ben Wedeman, also in that part of Syria.
What happens to these kids whose parents are dead?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTENTIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a very good question because many of these children come from countries that don't
want them back.
So, really, the entire sort of question of what to do with foreign nationals who came and lived under the so-called Islamic State is something
that isn't -- hasn't been addressed until now. So it appears that they're going to simply be in limbo in these ratchet, overcrowded camps where
resources are stretched to the limits.
Until their home countries decide on what to do with them and what we have seen is, for instance, the United Kingdom and other countries in Europe
simply don't want them back. Only a few countries have said they would be will willing to take them back. But in the meantime they are stuck. Hala.
GORANI: But I mean, if you have orphan children, what's the reasoning for their home country -- or the home country of their parents not taking them
back. They're not a threat. They're children.
[13:35:06] WEDEMAN: Yes. But the question of who is ultimately responsible for them is not clear. And what we've heard, for instance, is
before in the case of Shamima Begum, the British foreign office said that the camps are too dangerous to visit which is something, somewhat laughable
since the CNN team of Mary Rogers, Brent Swails, and Jomana Karadsheh, did go to those camps and they emerged in one piece.
So there's no reason why diplomats cannot visit these camps and arrange for somehow these children to be brought back to their home countries. It's a
good question, Hala. I don't have the answer.
GORANI: Yes, neither do I. And Al-Baghouz then, what's the latest on that? Because over the last several weeks, and I think you've practically
moved to Eastern Syria by now. You've been there so long. But at one point it was imminent. It was any day. But that was several weeks ago.
What's going on there with the battle to just completely take over that last sliver of ISIS land?
WEDEMAN: It does appear, Hala, that after a very long wait that the final, final, final fall of the so-called Islamic caliphate is perhaps hours,
perhaps just days away.
What we have seen in the last 24 hours is that the U.S.-backed Syrian democratic forces have been able to take much of that encampment that we
were told. Just the other day, it's 700 meters by 700 meters that Mustafa Bali, the chief spokesman for the SDF says that that camp is now under the
control of the SDF.
That the Jihadists are now, basically on literally, a sliver of land along the Euphrates River. But nonetheless, clashes are ongoing. Reports of
ISIS final demise are somewhat premature. But it does appear that after a prolonged stalemate, occasional intermittent battles that the end is fast
approaching. Hala.
GORANI: All right. Ben Wedeman live in Eastern Syria. Thanks very much.
In just a few hours, New Zealand's prime minister will meet with first responders and high school students as the nation tries to heal from
Friday's terrorist attacks. The prime minister is pledging to reform gun laws with the major changes to be announced in the coming days.
Today, Jacinda Ardern made her first address to parliament since the shooter killed 50 people and wounded 50 others last week as they prayed in
mosques. She vows to never utter the name of the man who accused of carrying out the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER OF NEW ZEALAND: He's a terrorist. He's a criminal. He's an extremist, but he will when I speak, be nameless. And
To others, I implore you, speak the names of those who were lost rather than the name of the man who took them. He may have sought notoriety, but
we in New Zealand will give him nothing, not even his name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: New Zealand authorities have started returning the bodies of those killed on Friday. But only six of the 50 victims have been released to
their families. The massacre has traumatized and scarred the community of Christchurch. One survivor told CNN about the moment the gunman attacked
his friends. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AZAM KHAN, MOSQUE ATTACK SURVIVOR: I was at the mosque at the time when the gunman came and he started shooting. And all of a sudden everybody
started to run. And in the process, I was looking towards my right and then -- and then everybody, a lot of people fell down and I also fell in
the process. And there was a lot of pile of people, all on top of the other. And then the gunman started shooting everyone. And then all of a
sudden everybody stood up and ran outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There's some of the survivors describing what happened. Another big, big aspect of the story has been the debate over social media
reaction. The latest on that front New Zealand's tree largest telecom companies are calling for an urgent discussion for social media CEOs after
the company struggled to remove footage of the terrorist attack from their platforms. And we're getting new information from Facebook?
Samuel Burke is here with that. What is Facebook saying?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS & TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: It's really quite interesting because we've seen Facebook stock go up today after days of it
falling.
Now, we don't ever talk about stock prices normally when we're counting bodies. The only reason that I'm talking about this because I think that
Facebook has been able to suddenly spin, as if they've had control over the situation in some ways.
So I just want to put up some of the new information we're learning because I think just beneath the surface, you and your viewers will see that it's
really not that way.
[13:40:06] Facebook is now admitting that no users reported the video during the live broadcast of the attack. Now, I think that may be
Facebook's way of saying, we couldn't take it down if nobody told us about it.
But, Hala, what that tells us is that the system that they have in place where users have to find the content, clearly, is not working.
On top of that, Facebook is now saying, well, the original videos only viewed 4,000 times before it was removed. But Facebook won't tell us how
many times copies of those videos were viewed.
I was on your show just last night talking about the 300,000 instances that were also up there. Why won't Facebook tell us how many times those were
viewed?
On top of that, Facebook also saying that a user was able to post a link to a copy of the video on 8chan, which is another social media platform before
they could even remove it.
Again, I think they're trying to shift the blame. But that only tells us that Facebook is such a big platform that if you have a video up there,
even for a short amount of time, maybe even just once that it can spread all across the internet.
And at the end of the day, it is very strange that we haven't heard from Mark Zuckerberg yet. All around the world, people are watching the
situation and the world that Facebook played. Yet, we haven't heard from the face of Facebook yet.
GORANI: So is Facebook saying that in order for them to be able to take offensive content down, they need it reported by users?
BURKE: Well, that's absolutely the indication that I get from putting out that type of information and from everything that we've seen from Facebook
in the past. It seems that they rely on users for the vast, vast, vast majority of content moderation that it has to begin with the user.
Now, it doesn't say much about us humans that people saw that and didn't flag it to anybody. But at the end of the day, that doesn't take the
responsibility off of Facebook.
GORANI: And also it's a question of whether or not Facebook is going to start admitting that it is in many ways a publisher. It's a content
provider, not just a platform.
BURKE: And that's exactly what the prime minister of New Zealand said today. They need to be start -- they need to start being treated that way.
But we just have to flag again that some people are saying, well, this is the first time that this has happened. It is not.
We have seen people, terrorists attackers use this social media live streaming before. The attacker in Paris who killed a police officer.
We've seen ISIS use this before. This is not a new phenomenon. Though it may be the most watched phenomenon.
GORANI: Samuel Burke, thanks very much.
Meanwhile, police in the Netherlands say a letter found in a getaway car suggest a terror motive after a 37-year-old man open fire on a tram in the
central Dutch city of Utrecht on Monday.
Authorities say there's no apparent link between the shooter and the three people that he murdered or the five who were wounded in the attack as some
reports had suggested.
Still to come tonight, the U.S. president just set to open himself up to questions from reporters. We're standing by for a joint news conference
with the Brazilian president at the White House. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:45:59] GORANI: The American president Donald Trump will face reporters' questions any moment now at the White House. He's hosting a
joint news conference along with the visiting Brazilian president. It follows the two leaders first face-to-face meeting in the Oval Office. And
we got something of a preview short time ago when the two spoke there.
Mr. Trump talked Venezuela and addressed his controversial tweets on the late Senator John McCain among other things.
CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson joins me now from Washington. And these two men are in many respects cut from the same cloth. They see
eye to eye on a lot of things including immigration.
I mean, we remember the inflammatory remarks that Donald Trump made about Mexicans during the campaign. Bolsonaro has said things like the scum of
the earth is showing up in Brazil talking about immigrants. So they do see eye to eye. What could come out of the meeting between the two men?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. Bolsonaro is everything that Trump likes in a foreign leader. He's, first
of all, very pro-Trump. He's pro-American. He's brazen, he's populist. He has autocratic tendencies. So I think one of the most interesting
things is to see how the body language works between these two leaders. We've often seen when Donald Trump gets that kind of strong man beside him
He tries to establish a kinship with him. We've seen it with Xi Jinping of China, of Vladimir Putin, famously, of course. Kim Jong-un of North Korea.
So first of all, it's going to be really interesting to see how they interact together. In terms of the substance, I think Venezuela is a huge
really important question, as you said.
Brazil is trying to get non-NATO major ally status out of the United States. Something what the president signaled in that photo-op in the Oval
Office was a possibility.
And then, of course, we have the questions two from each side when anything really could come up, depending on who the White House from the U.S. side
allows to answer the questions.
GORANI: Because we expect that if reporters on the U.S. side who are reporters who cover the White House in a journalistic fashion are called
upon, that they will inevitably ask about the release of these Cohen documents and the Russia investigations and other things.
Because we haven't heard from Trump -- we haven't heard Trump reaction or read Trump reaction on the release of those documents, right?
COLLINSON: Certainly. And that, of course, could cause the president to go off in any direction. We know how sensitive he is to the idea that he
believes that the Mueller investigation has gone into his past, personal life, his finances. That is a lot of what these Cohen documents were all
about.
I think he would also likely to be challenged possibly on his failure to be a more outspoken and condemning white supremacists in wake of the New
Zealand attack and his failure to really, at all, reach out towards the American-Muslim community and show any empathy there. That's something, I
think, that could also a lot of it of a touch paper with the president and this press conference.
Of course, the White House could choose to allocate questions to conservative media organizations which are favorable, which favor Trump.
We've seen that often in the past where there's been a moment of contention in Washington. So we may get through the whole press conference without
him answering those questions.
Having said that, sometimes the president goes off the reservation and decides to take questions from anybody. So it's almost anybody's guess of
what's going to happen.
GORANI: And sometimes it's the press core of the other country when journalists on the U.S. side aren't called upon who ask the tougher
questions. So we'll see if they do.
But I mean, Bolsonaro is another kind of populist here, even by the standards of populist stronger man. I would be incapable of loving a
homosexual son. Talking about an elected female official saying she's too ugly to be raped. Saying the scum of the earth is showing up in Brazil.
Talking about immigrants.
I mean, there has been -- I wonder even if Trump will be asked about what Bolsonaro himself has said. These very offensive remarks that he's uttered
over the years.
COLLINSON: That would actually be a very interesting way to try and probe the differences between these two men and to try and put the president --
if I was asking the question in an uncomfortable position, perhaps, I think it would also be interesting to see whether the president is asked about
freedom of the press, for example.
Something that both leaders have questioned through their actions. I mean, this is why when the president gets on a stage with one of these strong men
leaders, many people in the United States, political leaders who have faith with the founding values of the United States, human rights, freedom of the
press, freedom of expression find it very, very uncomfortable the way the president cozies up to some of these leaders.
He's been completely complementary, for example, to Kim Jong-un during their two summits. This is someone who operates a state, you know, where
millions of people don't have enough to eat. He's taken the word of Vladimir Putin over the -- over the assessments of his own intelligence
agencies on the question of Russian election meddling.
[13:50:21] This is something that's fundamental to Trump's character. Even when he was in business, he tried to associate himself with big casino guys
or big business guys. And it's those kind of people he has kinship with.
And I think when he looks at people like Xi and Kim and Bolsonaro and Duterte in the Philippines, on the world stage, he sees more kinship with
them, clearly, than the electors -- the elected leaders of western democracies who are America's traditional allies.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Stephen Collinson. We're expecting both leaders. The president of Brazil, Bolsonaro and the U.S. president,
Donald Trump, to make their way to those lecterns on the podium. And you can see the Brazilian and U.S. Press Corp assembled waiting for them to
start making their remarks.
And I'm sure everyone or maybe pretty much everyone is hoping to get a question in. And you can see the Brazilian flag alongside the U.S. flag
there on that podium. We'll be right back with a lot more on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, we are waiting for the president of Brazil, Bolsonaro and the U.S. President Trump, to address reporters in a joint news conference
any minute now. They were scheduled for 1:45 p.m. Eastern. They're just a few minutes late. That's not usual. These things typically slide.
The question is going to be more about what reporter questions will be asked especially of the U.S. president if he decides to call on American
reporters.
As we mentioned with Stephen Collinson who joins us again, who cover the White House journalistically. And inevitably, there will be questions
about these Cohen documents that have just been released that show the extent that to which the Mueller investigators went and how deeply they
probed into some of his businesses and how many of his e-mail accounts and phone messages they actually monitored to try to figure out what illegal
activities he was engaged in.
COLLINSON: Right, Hala. And I think that is something that in President Trump's mind that these will play into this idea that Mueller, who was
originally appointed to look into the question of alleged Russian election meddling has gone far beyond his mandate.
The president often talks about how this Mueller investigation is a massive witch-hunt. And often his mood seemed to be dictated by these revelations
we get about how far and how broad this investigation is.
Every little bit of evidence we get, every court case, every filing is a little piece of a wider jigsaw puzzle. And the president, I think, if he's
asked about this in this news conference is, you'll see exactly how angry he is about the expense nature of this.
GORANI: And, Stephen, the two men are actually walking out right now onto the podium. President Bolsonaro of Brazil and U.S. President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you very much, everyone. Thank you.
[13:55:04] Today, I'm very thrilled to welcome President Bolsonaro of Brazil for his first visit to the White House. President Bolsonaro, I want
to congratulate you again on your tremendous election victory last October. It was an incredible feat. And really and truly incredible challenge, and
the end result was something the whole world was talking about.
I also know that we're going to have a fantastic working relationship. We have many views that are similar. And we certainly feel very, very true to
each other on trade. I think Brazil's relationship with the United States, because of our friendship is probably better than it's ever been by far.
I also want to congratulate you on your recovery from a truly horrible ordeal. It was an incredible recovery. And the people of your country
know it. Great bravery. You've shown tremendous bravery.
For two centuries, the American and Brazilian people have been united by shared values, including and enduring love of faith and family and country.
The United States was the first nation to recognize Brazil's independence in 1822.
And in the Second World War, Brazil was the only South American country to contribute troops to the allied war effort. Today, the United States and
Brazil are the two largest democracies and economies in the western hemisphere. We're in close agreement on the incredible opportunities and
continuing challenges facing our region and we have a truly historic chance to forge even stronger ties between our two great nations.
This afternoon, the president and I discussed many of our mutual priorities including Venezuela. Brazil has been an extraordinary leader in supporting
the Venezuelan people's efforts to reclaim their liberty and their democracy. Brazil has helped so much.
Along with the United States, Brazil was one of the first nations to recognize Venezuela's legitimate interim president, Juan Guaido. I also
want to express our profound gratitude to President Bolsonaro and all the Brazilian people for their efforts to provide humanitarian aid.
We also thank you for allowing the United States to station extensive assistance and massive aid on the Brazilian border. The Brazilian people
have been incredible.
Together, we could and have been really very happy to feed thousands and thousands of starving Venezuelans. The Venezuelan people have appreciated
it. And if the Maduro forces would step aside, it could be a truly great and successful humanitarian project.
We call on members of the Venezuelan military to end their support for Maduro who is really nothing more than a Cuban puppet and finally set their
people free.
The United States and Brazil are also united in support of the long suffering people of Cuba and Nicaragua. The twilight hour of socialism has
arrived in our hemisphere. And hopefully, by the way, it's also arrived that twilight hour in our great country, which is doing better than it's
ever done economically.
The last thing we want in the United States is socialism. So President Bolsonaro, I will tell you that we'll be consulting and talking a lot.
We'll be working on all of our problems and assets and we're making tremendous strides. We had a great meeting today.
As I told President Bolsonaro, I also intend to designate Brazil as a major non-NATO ally or even possibly, if you start thinking about it, maybe a
NATO ally. I have to talk to a lot of people, but maybe a NATO ally which will greatly advance security and cooperation between our countries.
Our nations are already working together to protect our people from terrorism, transnational crime and drugs and weapon trafficking. Also,
human trafficking which has really become something that's come to the forefront of crime. Horrible, horrible situation.
END
