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Hala Gorani Tonight
Economics Behind Iran Oil Sanctions; Reds Reach Champions League Final After Dramatic Comeback; South Africa Struggles To Contain Xenophobic Violence; Polls Close In Just Minutes In South Africa's Elections. Aired 2- 3p ET
Aired May 08, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00] ROBYN CURNOW, CNN HOST: Live from CNN center. I'm Robyn Curnow in for Hala Gorani. Tonight the stakes are being upped by Iran and its war
of words with the United States saying it will reduce its compliance with the landmark nuclear deal and --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX, UNITED KINGDOM: It's magic. It's pretty amazing. I have the two best guys in the world. So I'm really happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: There he is. Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. Introduced to the world by a delighted Duke and Duchess of Sussex. And it's pitch
perfect from Liverpool has they make the most unlikely of comebacks against Lionel Messi and the footballing giants of Barcelona
We'll get to all of that in just a moment but we begin with a new spike in tensions between the U.S. and Iran. Iranian President Hassan Rouhani has
announced that his country will no longer comply with key parts of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal meaning it will resume stockpiling components that could
be used to build nuclear weapons.
Mr. Rouhani says the decision was prompted by increasing pressure from the Trump administration which abandoned the multination pact last year.
Here's how the U.S. Secretary of State sees Iran's move. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Iran's decision to depart from the deal is about the decision to work on their nuclear program. These are the
things that are essential for us to continue to work and to observe and I am confident as we watch Iran's activity that the United Kingdom and our
European partners will work together to ensure that nuclear has no pathway for a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: You were there, you were listening earlier on. This was a joint news conference with the British Foreign Secretary. What do you think was
the main takeaway from their comments?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There was a lot of diplomacy going on there. There wasn't outright criticism of either
country's position. But you did get very clearly a different message from the British Foreign Secretary because Britain doesn't think the United
States has taken the right stance, didn't take the right stance a year ago when it got out of the nuclear agreement and the Foreign Secretary said
that today.
He had a message for Iran, a very, very clear message and that was consider very, very carefully what you're doing, saying this is a potential fork in
the road and the implying potentially that European nations could follow the United States in putting sanctions on Iran if Iran abrogates it's part
of the deal.
But he also said that very clearly to Iran, that if you continue to do what you're doing so far, and that is stand by the deal since 2015, if you
continue to do that, we will continue to stand by -- stand by the deal as well. That was a very clear message and really that highlighted the
difference between the two -- between Britain and the United States. In fact the United States and Europe for that matter.
CURNOW: And there was a lot said, quite a lot to unpack, actually. But there was actually a snide comment made by Pompeo with regard to the Prime
Minister and perhaps one of the predecessors. Talk us through that one.
ROBERTSON: Before Iran came up and dominated the agenda of the past couple of days, whether that was by design or default, that's what happened. But
originally the expectation was that the Secretary of State would come to Britain to deliver a stern message from the United States that buying
Chinese 5G equipment, however small an amount, is going to put you at a potential disadvantage and separate you out from what the British foreign
secretary was a strong relationship with the United States.
But outside of that performance, the secretary went and gave a second speech and he was very undiplomatic. He said essentially think about this,
would the iron lady, meaning Britain's last female Prime Minister, would she essentially allow the country to compromise its security of its allies
and partners by buying Chinese equipment that by its very nature could have a detrimental effect on the nation's security. When you use language like
that, that is a very barbed message for Theresa May.
[14:05:05] We know Donald Trump himself has criticized Theresa May on several occasions in the past and of course he's coming here on a state
visit to Britain in less than a month. This was a very, very undiplomatic message, if you will.
CURNOW: Yes. Mrs. May seems to get it from all sides. Thanks so much.
I want to take a closer look now at the Iran conversation. Joining me is Aaron David Miller from Washington. Great to have you on the show. So I
want to ask you the main question here. Is all of this maximum pressure we see being put on Iran by the U.S., is it in the U.S. national interest,
what does America gain from it?
AARON DAVID MILLER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: I worked for half a dozen secretaries of state. And I have rarely seen an administration that does
not appear to have an end game strategy. And I think the scary reality is that they may not know what the strategy is it to bring about the fracture,
collapse and change in the regime? Is it to apply enough maximum pressure to drag the Iranians back to a serious negotiation? Is it to goad the
Iranians into leaving the deal and a set of circumstances in which both sides would trip into a military confrontation?
This is the real problem. When you don't know where you're going, the old saying goes, any road will get you there. And the reality is, I'm
increasing persuaded that not only does not it have a strategy, but the President, interested in getting America out of unwinnable old wars, and
not into new ones, Syria at a potential confrontation with Iran, may well be at odds with both Pompeo and his harder line National Security Adviser
John Bolton. When you don't have a strategy, then you drift. And when you drift all kinds of bad things can happen.
CURNOW: You're saying that this is not in the U.S.'s national interest, at least there's no obvious end game. When it comes to Saudi Arabia and
Israel, is it in their national interest to set up a situation where Iran is potentially goaded? How does it benefit them? And where does that fit
in here?
MILLER: You would think that both the Saudis and the Israelis are -- do want the Trump administration to take the lead in a much more aggressive
policy. The problem is, that tripping into a military confrontation with Iran exposes both Saudi Arabia and Israel in a way it does not expose the
United States which is sitting, you know, between nonpredatory neighbors to the north and south and literally fish to our east and west.
This is not Venezuela where the administration is having a very difficult time changing the Maduro regime. The Iranians exercise a fair degree of
asymmetrical power. They could hurt the Saudis badly. And I don't think - - even Mr. Netanyahu wants to court the prospects of a major confrontation with Iran that could also involve Hezbollah in the use of their scores of
thousands of high trajectory weapons,
So I think a rational policy, Robyn, would be, you cooperate with Iran when it serves the national interests, and you don't, in fact, you can confront
Iran when it fundamentally challenges vital American national interests. And we are drifting, we don't have an end game, as best as I can determine.
Regime change in Iranian is a fantastical objective.
And maybe the administration wants to get the Iranians back to the negotiating table. If in fact they're going to negotiate, there hasn't
been a negotiation in human history if you were going to ask for something you don't have to give anything in return. And this administration doesn't
strike me to be in the giving mood.
CURNOW: In terms of mood, is this perhaps -- what we're seeing now also playing into the hard-liners, domestically with Iran? Does this give them
cause of celebration, perhaps? The kind of situation that's being set up here?
[14:10:00] MILLER: Iran is a complicated society. I'm not a specialist on Iranian politics. The so-called hard-liners, the national security -- the
Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, they control most if not all of the major decisions both on domestic and foreign policy. I think what it does
is discourage any possibility of a small element within Iran, maybe Foreign Minister Zarif belongs to this notion, the supreme leader would never
permit that.
He fears the consequences of a more intense and robust relationship with the Americans. But I think it does make it almost impossible for there to
be any other credible alternative point of view. And that's not a good situation for a regime that uses the United States as an adversary to
mobilize control and marshal domestic opposition and particularly option of the security leaks to dealing with the United States.
CURNOW: And we haven't spoken about the Europeans. I'm going to have to leave it at that. Always great to get your expertise.
Now some extraordinary events I want to talk about unfolding in Washington right now. House lawmakers are set to vote soon on holding Attorney
General -- this is the top lawmaker in the country, in contempt over his refusal to give Congress the full Mueller report. That's not the only
headline here. Just before the Judiciary Committee convened, President Trump invoked executive privilege over the entire Mueller report and its
underlying evidence. Democrats accuse Mr. Trump of acting like a king who's above the law, a charge Republicans hotly deny.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAVID CICILLINE (D-RI): This is a deadly, serious moment. The rule of law and our basic institutions that have made our democracy the envy of
the world are being tested. The American people are watching and freedom- seeking people around the world are watching. They're seeing whether or not our commitment to the rule of law, to the notion that we are a country
of law not of men and women and no one is above the law.
REP. DOUG COLLINS (R-GA): Democrats are angry the special counsel's report did not produce the material they expected. I feel compelled to remind
everyone the report found no one from the Trump campaign knowingly conspired with the Russian government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: The House -- the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is blasting the Trump administration's blanket defiance of Congressional
oversight saying it's clear the U.S. is now in a constitutional crisis. Let's bring in Sunlen Surfaty.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a significant tension between this. We saw the House judiciary convene for hours. They
will reconvene in a little bit in order to vote to hold the Attorney General in contempt of Congress. Of course that is as you noted at the top
over the Democrats' demands to get the full, unredacted Mueller report in addition to the evidence that Robert Mueller used in his investigation.
And certainly adding to this already very tense mix was the fact that moments before the committee hearing started, you heard President Trump and
the White House confirm that they are asserting executive privilege to try to withhold that information that the Democrats want. Now that of course
has set of Democrats on the Democrats on the committee. The next step is a full floor vote on the U.S. House floor. Robyn?
CURNOW: Certainly a lot of dramatic events. Keep us updated. Thank you.
I want to talk more about Mr. Trump's move to declare executive privilege over the entire Mueller report. We're joined by CNN's legal analyst, Elie
Honig. Good to speak to you. I want to ask you what might be a pretty simple question. Why bury a report, invoke executive privilege on
something that the President says exonerates him?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's a great question, Robyn. I don't know that we have an answer. I think that the use of executive privilege here I
think is really quite extreme and unusual and it's not a particularly good fit for what I think is being fought over. What Congress and the White
House are fighting over is the roughly 8 percent of the Mueller report that's been redacted by William Barr.
[14:15:03] And executive privilege isn't the right fit because a lot of those redacted materials have nothing to do with executive privilege.
Executive privilege refers to confidential communications between the President and his top advisers and plenty of the material in the Mueller
report has nothing to do with that. Executive privilege isn't the best fit here. I also do not think it will succeed as an argument in the courts.
For one thing, the President already has waived, given away executive privilege by allowing for one thing, the President already has waived,
given away executive privilege by allowing his close advisors to speak with Robert Mueller.
CURNOW: The point is, this is a political decision, isn't it? It's not a legal decision?
HONIG: It's both. Both politically and legally we are seeing a shutdown between the branches. It's the kind of thing that I think you theorize
about in law school. What would happen if one of our branches, the White House, the presidency, just completely shut down another branch, Congress,
in Congress trying to enforce its own oversight authority. That is one of the key, fundamental jobs of Congress is to conduct oversight.
And so far, the executive branch has been straight up stonewalling. Congress needs to stand up for itself and go in front of courts who will
say whether it is a proper or improper use of Congress's subpoena authority and their ability to conduct oversight over the executive branch.
CURNOW: And there's also talk about the other drama that is happening, again, points to all of the stonewalling, is that the Attorney General who
is essentially the top lawmaker is going to be cited as being in cement of Congress.
HONIG: We have three or four issues right now that all could -- will pitch two of the branches against each other. We have the dispute over whether
almost Barr will testify. That is what our Congress will be voting on this afternoon. Whether to hold him in contempt. I do not think this is the
strongest case for Congress to make because I think there's a good argument in response that the redactions that were made, were appropriately, were
legally required, grand jury materials.
I think the Congress would be in a much stronger position to take to court the tax returns issue. The law is much stronger about Congress being
entitled to get that. If I was advising the Democrats in Congress, I would say pick your battles a little more carefully here.
CURNOW: Either way, there's some battles playing out in Congress. Thanks so much.
Still to come, making his royal debut and we have a name. Are the Duke and Duchess of Sussex bucking tradition again? All the details next.
The baby wasn't the only big talking point, Liverpool's win against Barcelona has sent football fans into a frenzy. We will have the latest
later on in our show.
[14:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CURNOW: Meet Archie. After a lot of guessing and speculation, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex have revealed the name of their newborn son, Archie
Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. And in very modern fashion, it was announced on Instagram along with a photo of baby Archie meeting the queen for the
first time. Earlier the couple introduced him to the world from Windsor Castle and they spoke briefly with reporters. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARKLE: It's magic. It's pretty amazing. I have the two best guys in the world. So I'm really happy. He has the sweetest temperament. He's calm
and --
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX, UK: I wonder who he gets that from.
MARKLE: And he's just been a dream. It's been a special couple of days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who does he take after? Does he look like anyone?
MARKLE: We still haven't figured that out.
PRINCE HARRY: The baby has changed so much over two weeks. We're monitoring how the changing process happens over the next month really.
He's changing every single day. Who knows? Parenting is amazing. It's only been 2 1/2 days, three days. We're so thrilled to have our little
bundle of joy here to spend some precious times with him as he starts to grow up. Thank you.
MARKLE: Thank you all so much. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks a lot.
MARKLE: Thank you, everybody, for the well wishes and kindness. It means so much. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: The royal couple reportedly chose not to use a title for their son. He won't currently be known as a Prince. Let's discuss all of this.
Max Foster is in Windsor for us. Victoria Arbiter, CNN Royal commentator. Max, you first, Archie? Discuss.
MAX FOSTER: CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Archie is a very popular name here in the UK. Recently there's been lots of these nicknames that are used as
first names. They're reflecting a modern trend. This is a modern couple reflecting modern society as they often do in their own way. They do
things in a very modern way. I'm told that they just liked the name Archie.
They haven't referred back to the history books to look for previous names from the royal family that they might like. Harrison means Harry's son.
Absolutely nothing complicated about it at all. In terms of titles, interesting, there is a title they could have applied to their son which
would be the Earl of Dumbarton. They wanted to have an ordinary name. Which again I think speaks to them being a modern couple and a relatable
couple a relatively normal couple dare I say.
CURNOW: Dare you say, because they are not in the least bit normal because they produce and offered their child up in front, within Windsor Castle.
Not many of us get to do that with our first born. Victoria, what do you make of the name Archie Harrison?
VICTORIA ARBITER, CNN ROYAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's quite refreshing. The Queen has eight grandchildren now, all of those who don't have titles,
have these more relaxed names. Savanna, Ila, Mia, Elaina. Archie fits in with his cousins. And that's the freedom for not having an HRH princely
status. It is interesting they said they are not going to use a courtesy title for now.
When Charles becomes King, this baby will be eligible to be HRH Prince. But by the time that comes around, Harry And Meghan may say that our son
has a free life. They may choose to say no thank you to the status. I think for now, they've done the best thing they can by their child, by
trying to afford him as normal a life as possible. Even though that comes with great privilege, it's easier to achieve without a title.
[14:25:06] CURNOW: Everybody thought alexander might be a good one, spencer. What have the bookies said. Did anyone bet on Archie?
FOSTER: They're thrilled because no one was betting on it. I say no one. I think -- it was a hundred to one. They paid out just a hundred pounds.
The bets were very small. All those people that bet on alexander and spencer and all these other names, they didn't make the money they were
hoping. You couldn't guess this name. It's an extraordinary name. Victoria is the historian amongst us.
It's an extraordinary name. Victoria is the historian amongst us. If you go back, there are Archibalds of the past. They're not turning their back
on tradition. As you referred to, they revealed this baby in St. George's Hall which is the heart of the oldest Castle that the monarchy uses. This
the monarchy goes back 1,000 years and they brought an easel out to announce the birth.
There are elements of tradition, but they're giving it this modern twist. Not using a title, this might give them a reason for saying this baby
deserves privacy, it isn't going into a royal role unlike us as parents.
CURNOW: And you make these points about Windsor because it's quite interesting. Not only did they make announcement in the very beautiful
surroundings of Windsor, but Windsor is a nod to history, Mountbatten- Windsor, tell us about the symbolism about that.
FOSTER: There's a lot of family symbolism there. It was George the Fifth who adopted the name Windsor. He adopted Windsor. Mountbatten came into
the fray in 1960. The queen understood having not being able to give his name to his children and so that name was decided on who did not have royal
styles and titles. By including Mountbatten-Windsor, Prince Phillip gets a nod. And it's a personal surname used by male line descendants. We have
mast Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. So there's still a regal feel to this name.
CURNOW: And, Max, to you, what next? When will we see them again? The christening? Is this it, at least for the public.
FOSTER: They're going to vanish. If we look at what's happened the last couple of days, it's just been the four of them. Doria, Meghan's mother,
no one has been to visit them at all. William hasn't been to visit yet, nor has Charles. They came up to see the queen. So they've met the queen.
And I think that that's a single that they're going to go off and bond as a tight family unit.
It's going to be interesting, I think the christening, because it's going to be blockbuster, if you look at Meghan's friends, they're all a list of
stars. We're all looking forward to that. I think that's going to be the next betting game, isn't it, who the god parents will be based on the guest
list, that is going to be kind of fun. Also interestingly, just a fun fact to wrap this all up, the baby was born on George Clooney's birthday as
well.
You never know. That might be a good indication of a godfather to come. Thanks to you both. Great speaking to you throughout the week. Thanks so
much.
CURNOW: Still to come, we will take you to Liverpool where we saw scenes of drama, emotion and elation after last night's victory over Barcelona.
Stay tuned for this one.
(BREAK)
[14:30:30] CURNOW: So, back to our top story. The dramatic announcement by Iran that it'll stop complying with some parts of the nuclear deal.
Now, we want to look at it from the standpoint of economics. There's no question that U.S. sanctions have certainly made it harder for Iran to sell
oil and that has had a ripple effect on the entire Iranian economy.
The IMF recently said it expects Iranian economy to shrink by six percent this year, at a time when much of the world economy is growing.
So let's talk more about this with John Defterios.
John, hi. There's been a lot of movement on the story, politically. But we've also heard in the last few days, the foreign minister saying that
this squeeze by America on Iran not being able to trade, for example, is a war crime. What do you say to that?
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN BUSINESS EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Well, it's a bold statement by Javad Zarif. But many would agree with him, because at least
in the Iranian view, and others that are signatories to the agreement, they didn't break the terms of the 2015 accord. In fact, Hassan Rouhani called
it a win-win back then and said, we don't want this to turn into a win- lose, because the U.S. is putting pressure on them.
So I think the partial retreat that we see from Iran now is an effort, a diplomatic effort to put pressure on the Europeans, to get off the fence
and give them more support. But I think we have to be very blunt here, this could be a very hard on Iran overall. And I think the number one
weapon the U.S. is trying to use here is oil.
Let's go back to 2016 at the peak and also in March where their exports stand right now. Around a million barrels a day. Vis-a-vis over three
million barrels a day in the autumn of 2016, what I'd like to call it halo effect of that nuclear agreement.
Robyn, this is costing Iran, $50 billion a year. Now, we often talk about the IMF, it is forecast on Iran, they're forecasting a contraction of six
percent in 2019. That is very painful.
But the author of that report told me just a week ago, that was designed on the exports remaining at about a million barrels a day. If the U.S. is
successful in driving those exports down, that number is going to get even deeper.
And also the riyal is under pressure. It hit a seven-month low in the last 24 hours. And as a result, the import costs for the average Iranian is
going up and inflation is at 40 percent.
So I've been to Iran a couple of times. They're very resilient, proud population, but the pressure from the United States is heavy and Iran right
now wants China, Russia, and the Europeans to come up and say, this is not right, because we didn't break the agreement that we signed in 2015.
CURNOW: Yes. And I don't think you can overstate that. Iran, actually, stuck to the agreement. It was the Americans who reneged on that
agreement. And certainly the Iranian people, as you're saying, going to be really feeling the pinch of it.
Now, when you talk about oil as a weapon. How does Mr. Pompeo's visit to Iraq, yesterday, fit into this?
DEFTERIOS: Well, I'm glad you bring it up, because it was a high-profile shift or detour by Mike Pompeo to go to Baghdad. Remember, we didn't even
know where he was heading.
He's trying to serve, if you will, as a wedge between Iran and Iraq, because of that very tight relationship as neighbors and the Shia influence
that Iran has in the neighborhood.
But there was a sweetener on the table, Robyn, and a very big one. This is extraordinary. ExxonMobil partnered with PetroChina. The deal is not done
yet, but it's reported to be $53 billion for ExxonMobil and PetroChina to go in to southern Iraq to develop the oil fields there.
We're looking at a revenue of $400 billion for Iraq, over a period of three decades. That is a big plus for Iraq. They're going to still allow the
Iraqis, I'm told, to bring in gas from Iraq, so still have that waiver.
[14:35:12] But it's clearly an effort by the United States to say, we're on the chessboard. We're the biggest piece on the table and we're coming into
the Middle East. I think that was the signal with the military hardware that's now in the Gulf as a result of this as well.
CURNOW: Yes. Certainly escalating tensions on all levels.
John Defterios, great to speak to you. Thanks so much.
DEFTERIOS: Thanks, Robyn.
CURNOW: OK. So now, to the search for answers after yet another senseless shooting at a U.S. school. It happened this time -- this time, near
Denver, Colorado, an area that has seen a number of high-profile gun attacks since the Columbine massacre in 1999.
This time, one teenager was killed. This is the young man who lost his life. He was actually trying to protect his classmates. We know that
several people, kids were injured, both of the alleged shooters are students.
And in a twist, police say one of them is a girl. The other an 18-year-old is due in court shortly.
Ryan Young is in Castle Rock, Colorado, and he joins us now live.
So, Ryan, yes. Another school shooting. It looks like bad weather where you are, certainly. But just talk us through what's happening and where
you are specifically.
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're outside the courthouse right now and I think the focus has to be on how this community tries to
move forward. You talk about this. We're seven miles away from where Columbine happened and so many people are torn about this, because they can
remember it.
In fact, they just sort of went through memorial service for the 20-year anniversary of that shooting. And then you have this one happened again.
And of course, Kendrick Castillo, the young man picture that you showed who really gave up his own life to kind of save his other classmates is being
remembered as a hero. How else can you think about this? You have a child in the classroom and apparently someone walks in and pulls out a gun and
says, don't move and he actually sprang into action.
In fact, I talked to a student who was in that class who was talking about how terrifying it was to be in there. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NYKI GIASOLLI, STUDENT: They all risked their own lives to make sure that 10, 15 of us all got out of that classroom safe and that we were able to go
home to our families. And they risked their own lives so that we could all have our own --
NUI GIASOLLI, NYKI GIASOLLI'S MOTHER: If it hadn't been for him, I wouldn't have my baby today, and I can't imagine. I will never be able to
thank him. I have no words other than what a hero.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YOUNG: So after Kendrick sprang into actions and was shot, several other classmates jumped in and jumped on top of that first shooter. Apparently,
the guy who will be here today, he was held down and I kept asking her, did he say anything? He said, outside of "don't move," he didn't say anything
else. He just sort of let the bullets do the talking.
Of course, there was another shooter, a young lady who was inside. She's a juvenile. So we're not sure how that will proceed in court so far.
We also know the authorities are working to try to figure out exactly where these kids got the gun from. I was even asking, was there any trouble with
this certain student in class? And she was like, no, she hadn't heard of any kind of problems with him. So they're still trying to figure exactly
what the motive is here.
But there's never really any good answers to a school shooting especially when a young person loses their life. If there is any good news in this,
authorities were nearby. We have new situations here in terms of when police arrive to a school shooting, they go right in the the building as
fast as possible.
Deputies arrived on scene so quickly, they could still hear the gunshots. But there's a lot of people asking why including a lot of us just to try to
figure out when can we stop some of these shootings that have been going on and on? It seems now more often than what we would like.
CURNOW: Yes, it's not great. Is it? I mean, any of us who have kids in U.S. schools, so they're constantly undergoing active shooter training.
And then in school and then this happens which makes it a reality.
Ryan Young, sorry you're having to report on another one of these school shootings. Thanks so much. Keep us posted.
YOUNG: Yes.
CURNOW: OK. You're watching CNN. More ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:40:23] CURNOW: So it should have been impossible. Liverpool faced one of the best teams in the world with, arguably, the greatest player ever in
Lionel Messi. They were already losing, three-zero. No one gave them a chance of beating Barcelona, but then, take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it quickly. Oh, wonderful thinking, Origi. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant from Liverpool. And for Barcelona,
chaotic, catastrophic at its core.
CURNOW: Those dramatic moments in sport that few will forget. Cue Bedlam and impossible becoming reality. Liverpool winning four-zero. It means
they make it into the Champions League final. Their fans and players celebrating together at the end.
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Amanda Davies has spent the day time at that ground and field, and she sent us this update just a short time ago. Amanda.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: It's not often you see a goal like that, which came from this corner. But it's not often we
have a night like the one that took place here at Anfield on Tuesday.
The Kop here has seen some incredible European occasions, Saint Etienne in 1977, Olympiacos, 2004. But Barcelona, 2019, is widely being regarded,
talked about in these parts and beyond as the greatest.
PAUL COPE, CONTRIBUTOR, THE ANFIELD WRAP PODCAST: I'm looking off it to being to a good view. I was brought up in the generation of having to
listen to my dad and my uncles talk about Saint Etienne and Rome. And we've started to rattle off our own memories.
Now, we've got Chelsea, Juventus, Olympiacos, Man City from last year, Dortmund. This one in the context, playing against the greatest player of
all time. Three-zero down, without two of your best players, two of the best strikes in the world to do what we did, to win four-zero. To do it in
normal time without extra time being needed, for me, it's the greatest ever won.
DAVIES: Preparations are well under way here at Anfield for Sunday's final game of what has been an incredible Premier League campaign.
But whilst the fate of the domestic title has been taken out of Liverpool's hands, the Champions League, their sixth European crown, is still very much
Liverpool's for the taking.
Amanda Davies, CNN, Anfield, Liverpool.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CURNOW: That was a cool place to sign off from, wasn't it? Don Riddell, well, you're in a pretty cool place, you're here in the studio with me.
DON RIDDELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL SPORTS ANCHOR: Next to you.
CURNOW: Yes. There we go.
Wow. I mean, that was -- that was kind of amazing, wasn't it?
RIDDELL: It was extraordinary. I mean, when you say nobody gave them a chance, everybody thought it was impossible, I'm not sure the Liverpool and
the Liverpool players believed it. I mean, it was -- there's something about this club, there's something about them being in these situations
where they just -- the attitude is just bring it on.
And, you know, you see the way they celebrate, the hymns of praise, you'll never walk alone. It is almost a spiritual relationship they have with
this team. The events of yesterday were truly extraordinary. I mean, they really were quite incredible to witness.
CURNOW: And this team has done it before, haven't they? And again, you talk about it being a spiritual moment as we're seeing here. And you were
there for the last time.
RIDDELL: Right, 2005 Champions League final in Istanbul. Liverpool had actually had a really bad Premier League campaign that year, but they got
to the final. They were playing AC Milan.
[14:45:08] But in the first half, they were played off the park. They didn't have a shot on goal, they were three-zero down. And you just
thought, well, this is going to be a horrendous night.
At halftime, the Liverpool fans got the flags, and the scarves, and the banners, and the songs. And the players in the dressing room actually
stopped their team talk, just to listen to what was happening outside and it completely transformed the atmosphere within that dressing room.
And they came out in the second half, they scored three goals in the space of, I think just six minutes. And to see that and to be a part of that and
to kind of feel what it was like to be in the stadium that night, it just felt as we were seeing something more than just a football game.
I mean, I get chills just thinking about it. I've been a Liverpool fan. I do have a soft spot for Liverpool.
But to have seen what they did that year and then to see it again last night, and it just kind of felt very familiar. A similar predicament.
Halfway through a tie, three-zero down, bring it on.
CURNOW: And something that just warms your heart as well on that level.
Let's talk about individual players. I mean, there was a number of fantastic pieces of football, soccer. Talk about the wonder goal.
RIDDELL: Right. Well, so what was extraordinary about this --
CURNOW: I mean, there was -- amazing part.
RIDDELL: Yes. Well, you've just seen the goal, the kind of the trick play from Trent Alexander-Arnold who grew up in Liverpool. He's only a young
lad. He actually took a lap (INAUDIBLE) on his own at the end.
But the guy that scored the winning goal, Divock Origi, so he's kind of a bit part player about Liverpool. What is also extraordinary about this is
that there are two strikers, there are two stars, Firmino and Mohamed Salah were injured. You saw Salah on the sideline and they never give up t-
shirt.
They would have loved to have been on the field, but they couldn't be a part of it. And you ended up with Georginio Wijnaldum coming on of half-
time. He said he was so annoyed he didn't get to start the game. But the manager, Jurgen Klopp, had a plan for him. Came out of halftime, scored
two very quick goals. And Origi scored two goals, including the winner, as you've just seen.
This guy seems to have a habit for scoring late goals in huge games. So he scored against Newcastle very, very late at the weekend, which kept them in
the Premier League title race, and now he's done this, taking them to the Champions League final.
You know, just a few days ago, it seemed as though they might not win anything this season. In a space of 10 days, they could win the Champions
League and the Premier League. The Premier League, as Amanda said, is out of their hands.
But if Manchester City slipped up on the last day, who knows? And with Liverpool -- with Liverpool, you know, it's -- yes. Believing --
CURNOW: It's so nice to have a heartwarming story.
RIDDELL: I think so. I mean, you know, too bad if you're a Barcelona fan.
CURNOW: This is true.
RIDDELL: They've had plenty of success. They'll be fine.
CURNOW: Oh, yes. All right. Don Riddell, always good to have you here. Thanks so much.
OK. So if you thought Liverpool's stunning comeback might distract British lawmakers from Brexit, think again. Football maybe about tackles and
thrown, but in parliament, the only thing politician were tackling was sass and the only thing they were throwing were shade. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY: If you're the amazing performance of Liverpool last night, perhaps the prime minister could take
some tips from the Jurgen Klopp on how to get a good result in Europe.
THERESA MAY, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: When we look at the Liverpool win over Barcelona last night, what it shows is that when everyone says it's
all over, that your European opposition have got you beat, the clock is ticking down, it's time to concede defeat. Actually, we can still secure
success if everyone comes together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CURNOW: Mic drop. Now, FYI, for those wondering, overall, the city of Liverpool voted to remain in the EU.
So still ahead here at CNN, the polls are about to close in South Africa. Today's vote is considered a key test for the ruling African National
Congress. This really is a critical election. We're live in Joburg (ph), that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:29] CURNOW: We want to bring you this breaking news update on our top story. We are just hearing the White House has just issued an
executive order announcing new sanctions on Iran. This follows Iran's announcement that it would scale back its commitments to the international
nuclear deal. These new sanctions target Iran's iron, steel, aluminum, and copper sectors.
We'll bring you more details on this as soon as they become available.
Meanwhile, we are just minutes away now from polls closing in South Africa's elections.
Today's vote is certainly seen as a big test for the ruling African National Congress and the president, Cyril Ramaphosa. His party is facing
widespread voter apathy after years of corruption. First results in the nationwide contest are expected late on Thursday.
Well, David McKenzie joins me now from Johannesburg. David is at a polling station. You've been there all day. Just talk us through what people are
saying. What is the mood? What is feeling as they're coming in to vote?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly any time there's a vote in South Africa, it's a highly significant moment. And as
you say, Robyn, this is a key test of the ruling ANC, the party of Nelson Mandela, has face apathy because of long-running corruption allegations.
You know, what I'm hearing from people voting, both here and Johannesburg and in Soweto today is they want a change to be accelerated. They say 25
years after the end of apartheid, it hasn't come soon enough. They're complaining about the inequality in this country.
But here in downtown is also a place where many foreigners live in South Africa and they are feeling they could be the biggest losers of the
selection.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the modern day, we were the -- they come inside the shop, they looted everything --
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Nearly 15 years ago, Hussain Osman (ph) fled violence and killing in Somalia.
MCKENZIE: So they looted your shop four times?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, four times.
MCKENZIE: Only to find it here in South Africa. This Somali business community and other African immigrants, all targets of xenophobic attacks
and crime.
In August of last year, looters casually walking past and murdered Somali outside a store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, how are you feeling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are fine.
MCKENZIE: Every time South Africans have destroyed his business, Osman began again. They said they always fear South African elections the most.
"The government isn't interested in protecting us," he says. "We live among South Africans. And whenever there are elections, blackouts or no
water, they rob us over and over again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Long live the spirit of Nelson Mandela, long live.
MCKENZIE: South Africa's president recently called for arrests and prosecutions saying there is no justification for criminality. But these
attacks have gone on for years and often the attackers go free.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): In the most competitive elections since the end of apartheid, all of the parties seem to be pushing populism and tapping into
a deep vein of anti-immigrant sentiment.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Reflection global trends, parties like the opposition Democratic Alliance, are using slogans like secure our borders.
"The foreigners must just leave," he says. "They are here to destroy our country."
MCKENZIE (on-camera): "Son of the soil," what does that mean for you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meaning that is a (INAUDIBLE) South Africa --
MCKENZIE (voice-over): Despite party leaders officially calling for tolerance, it was easy to find stark anti-immigrant sentiment at political
rallies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People of South Africa must come first before foreigners. You can - before -- must fix you a house before you go in the
other country and fix them.
MCKENZIE: We sat down with foreigners, down with foreigners says this ANC supporter.
South Africans often blame immigrants for bringing in fake goods, pushing drugs, taking jobs, committing crimes, mostly with little evidence.
HERMAN MASHABA, MAYOR OF JOHANNESBURG: Our constitution is so clear around how we as a country must take care of foreign nationals coming into the
country.
MCKENZIE: Politicians accused of inflaming passions, like Johannesburg's mayor, say they just want the rule of law.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): Their accusation is that campaigning and words are powerful and it stokes violence.
MASHABA: Well, you stoke violence when you've got a breakdown of order. When you don't really have the rule of law in any country where it's a
jungle and anybody can do anything. That's why you have chaos.
[14:55:05] MCKENZIE (voice-over): Just months ago, Osman's grandson was killed during looting. Two weeks ago, his nephew, Nur Omar (ph), was
robbed and murdered near his store. He was just 18.
"He lived with me when he came to South Africa and I took care of him, because he was family. I've lost all hope since he died," says Osman.
Hope for a better life in South Africa, extinguished by violence and hate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCKENZIE: Well, obviously, Robyn, anti-immigrant sentiment is something we've seen across the globe. But here in South Africa, I was quite struck
by their causal xenophobia that was just coming out of almost everyone's mouth. Robyn?
CURNOW: It's very powerful package, David, and very important as well.
Let's also talk about Cyril Ramaphosa, the president. How much of a precarious situation is he? And then, how much is this election
specifically also about him?
MCKENZIE: I think there's a lot about him because there is a sense by many in South Africa that he is the last hope, at least for now, for the ANC
because he's surrounded by many senior leaders in that party that have had serious allegations of corruption against them. And he's facing massive
divisions and fractures within the ANC.
A key moment in this election won't just be, Robyn, the result, we expect the ANC to win. By how much is the question, whether they get that 50
percent majority which most analysts believe they will?
But what Ramaphosa does next, does he use his mandate to clean house at the ANC or is he politically still too fragile to actually do what many South
Africans say they want him to do. Robyn?
CURNOW: And just quickly before you go, what's the voter turnout like?
MCKENZIE: Well, I've been speaking to the presiding officer here. He certainly says it's down substantially from about 10 years ago. And across
the country, you've seen a lot of apathy from young voters. That's also something that would be important to see.
You do often see apathy amongst the youth in votes all across the world. Especially pointers here in South Africa because their parents fought and
died for that franchise. And it does show that the kind of promise of democracy, at least amongst some South Africans has faded substantially.
Robyn.
CURNOW: Yes, worrying indeed. David McKenzie, thanks so much. We'll talk to you tomorrow when those results start trickling in. Thanks so much.
David McKenzie there in Joburg.
So I'm Robyn Curnow. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Stay with CNN. Richard Quest is up next with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:00]
END
