Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
World Commemorates a Turning Point of World War II; Biracial G.I. Babies Born During World War II Look for Answers; Police Raid H.Q. Of Australian Broadcasting Corp. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired June 05, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST (voice-over): Hello, everyone. Live in CNN London on this Wednesday, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight: remembering D-Day. Donald Trump joins other world leaders to mark one of the most pivotal moments of the Second World War.
Also it's been called the biggest protest in Prague since the fall of communism as tens of thousands take to the streets calling for their prime
minister to step down.
And concerns over press freedom as Australia's media is hit by two police raids in as many days. We will be talking about that with our chief media
correspondent.
We start the show with this: 75 years ago, thousands of Allied troops set off from the south coast of England on a mission that would change the
course of history and eventually liberate western Europe from the grip of Nazi control.
Today world leaders came together with Queen Elizabeth at a naval base in Portsmouth to remember those very men marking the anniversary of D-Day by
honoring their remarkable courage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI (voice-over): 75 years on from the D-Day landings, world leaders gathered in Portsmouth to remember the turning point of World War II.
Alongside President Trump and the first lady, some of the last remaining veterans of the operation.
A display of military prowess watched by leaders from 16 countries, many of which had sent troops to take part in the landings three-quarters of a
century ago.
D-Day was the largest amphibious invasion ever undertaken. In just one day, June 6th, 1944, 4.5 thousand Allied troops and at least the same
number of Germans were killed. Remembering that loss, President Trump took to the stage to read a prayer that Franklin D. Roosevelt spoke on the radio
during the landings in 1944.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Almighty God, our sons, pride of our nation, this day, have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle
to preserve our republic, our religion and our civilization and to set free a suffering humanity.
GORANI (voice-over): The queen thanked the assembled veterans in the crowd for their heroism and courage.
ELIZABETH II, QUEEN OF ENGLAND: It is with humility and pleasure on behalf of the entire country, indeed, the whole free world, that I say to you all,
thank you.
GORANI (voice-over): And they received a standing ovation from the crowd.
After the formal event, a flypast from the Royal Air Force. And the queen and President Trump met one on one with some of the veterans to hear their
experiences.
As part of the commemorations, all 16 countries' presidents signed a joint declaration, committing to never allow the unimaginable horrors of the
Second World War to be repeated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Let's go to Ireland now. That's where Donald Trump has landed for his first visit as U.S. president. He was greeted at Shannon Airport by
the Irish prime minister, Leo Varadkar. Then they held a meeting at the airport itself, where Brexit was believed to be top of the agenda.
In an earlier news conference, the president said Brexit would be very good for Ireland and seemed to suggest that Ireland wants a border wall or some
sort of wall with Northern Ireland, saying, "We have a border situation in the U.S. and you have one here."
The Irish prime minister was forced to clarify and explain that is the very thing that in fact he wants to avoid. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Probably you'll ask me about Brexit because I just left some very good people that are very much involved with Brexit, as you know. And I
think that will all work out. It will all work out very well and also for you, with your wall, your border. I mean, we have a border situation in
the United States and you have one over here.
LEO VARADKAR, IRISH PRIME MINISTER: The thing we want to avoid, of course, is a border wall between --
TRUMP: No, I think you do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Some confusion there, perhaps --
[14:05:00]
GORANI: -- about the border. Let's get more now on this, Nic Robertson is in Shannon for us.
What did the two leaders talk about beyond the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: One of the big things, obviously, on the president's agenda has been Huawei. He had that
discussion with the British about their -- how much or if any this Chinese company should be establishing part of the 5G network in the U.K. It's an
issue here in Ireland as well.
The Irish prime minister said that he hoped to get more details from President Trump about the United States' concerns of security and
intelligence briefing on it. He said he would go back to the European Union with that information.
It did take the Irish taoiseach, the prime minister, hugely by surprise, it seemed, by the look on his face, when President Trump mentioned a border
wall, an anathema to the Irish leader. His very concern that any kind of infrastructure on the border, if there was a hard Brexit, would be bad for
business for Ireland, hugely damaging and, of course, damaging for the peace process in the north of Ireland -- Hala.
GORANI: And, Nic, what happens in the coming hours there, the president is visiting one of his golf courses, we understand?
ROBERTSON: He's taking off. It's about an hour's drive away from here. He's flown part of the way. Marine One was on the tarmac here at the
airport. This is where he'll be able to relax tonight before he takes off for Normandy tomorrow and he'll come back here Thursday night, maybe have
time for a round of golf late afternoon and Friday is expected to get some more golf in the morning before he leaves back for the United States.
It's expected to be a restful time. He'll host a dinner there. We understand his two sons, Don Jr. and Eric, are attending a ceili, a
traditional Irish dance with traditional music, in the local town of Doonbeg, where the population of 341 seems quite in support of President
Trump and the boost to the economy it's brought, although there were a few protesters out there this evening, competing on the other side of the road
with pro-Trump supporters.
GORANI: Nic Robertson, thank you very much, live from Shannon Airport.
President Trump says his U.K. state visit was, quote, "truly beautiful." From D-Day ceremonies at Portsmouth today, surrounded by veterans and world
leaders, to a banquet at Buckingham Palace on Monday, he received a warm and traditional welcome.
But the president couldn't stay off of Twitter for long. He insulted a top Senate Democrat, calling him "a creep," and lashed out at a celebrity,
calling her "a washed-up psycho."
Let's take a look back at Mr. Trump's visit. Brian Klaas is an assistant professor of global politics at University College London.
Catherine Philip is a diplomatic correspondent with "The Times of London."
Catherine, you told my producer you thought that the queen had a pacifying influence on Donald Trump?
CATHERINE PHILIP, "THE TIMES OF LONDON": Yes, I think so. This is what the queen is for. She's good at this. She's apolitical. He clearly
thinks very highly of her.
But I think this visit went better than anyone could have expected. President Trump seemed in incredibly good humor. He held a press
conference with Theresa May, which was very good natured and he praised her. I think the queen did have an effect on him.
GORANI: Brian?
BRIAN KLAAS, UNIVERSITY COLLEGE LONDON: I think this is the constant bar lowering that we do with Donald Trump, that he didn't cause a diplomatic
incident; therefore, it's a success.
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But he managed to do so on Twitter with the mayor of London.
KLAAS: While he's heading off to the D-Day commemorations, he's calling Bette Midler a psycho. It's still unconventional in making waves. But
when you look at state visits, they're supposed to produce results, strengthen alliances. And if you look at recent polls, there was a poll
that asked, do you think, as British people, that Trump is strengthening or weakening the special relationship?
And 53 percent of people said weakening and 6 percent said strengthening. So these are stark results from polls like that. And I think what's
important here, you have the pomp and circumstance of the royal visit but, at the end of the day, the special relationship is fraying and that's
something that should give us a pause.
GORANI: About 40 percent of Brits approved of the visit. I thought that was interesting.
PHILIP: I think the protest was smaller than you might have expected. It were smaller than the ones the last time around. So perhaps some of the
heat has gone out of it.
GORANI: Also, it was raining. It wasn't great weather. Typical British summer, end of spring.
Let's talk about some of the things he said in the interview with Piers Morgan, talking about Iran, saying we'd rather talk. He was trying to
backtrack on a lot of things he said. He said Meghan Markle, it was a misunderstanding, I meant not that she was nasty but that she was nasty
about me.
Then he talked about the NHS because, to our international viewers, this is an institution in this country that you don't touch, regardless of where
you are on the political spectrum. He suggested that the NHS would be on the table quote-unquote "in any trade deal." This is what he told Piers
Morgan about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I believe --
[14:10:00]
TRUMP: -- that there's a change in weather and I think it changes both ways. Don't forget, it used to be called global warming. That wasn't
working. Then it was called climate change. Now it's actually called extreme weather.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Wrong sound bite. Let's find the one on the NHS. We have it. Let's listen to the one on the NHS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When you're dealing in trade, everything is on the table. So NHS or anything else. Or a lot more than that.
I don't see it being on the table. Somebody asked me a question today and I say everything's up for negotiation because everything is. But I don't
see that being -- that's something that I would not consider part of trade. That's not trade.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Brian, it sounds like someone gave him the memo, don't start talking about the NHS being on the table.
KLAAS: I think somebody gave him the memo and said the NHS is the National Health Service. I don't think he knew what that was. I think the most
obvious explanation here is that he was asked a question he didn't know what they were asking about and he said something that he does often, we'll
see what happens, everything is on the table.
He says that about Iran and about trade negotiations. I think the problem here is, when you look at a state visit that's supposed to produce results,
the average time for a bilateral trade deal to be negotiated with the U.S. is 45 months, almost four years. So when he says there's going to be a
quick, easy trade deal, it's fantasy.
And there's people who are making policy in this country based on a fantasy simply because Trump is saying this during his visits.
GORANI: Do you agree here with Brian?
PHILIP: I absolutely do. The thing is, I don't believe Trump's correction. He was asked about the NHS and he didn't know what it meant.
He wasn't aware of what he was saying. But then he was clearly given the memo and said, don't talk about that.
But I don't believe that it's not on the table because the ambassador, the U.S. ambassador to London, has repeatedly said it and I think it is
absolutely one of the great barriers to there being a deal between Britain and the U.S. And the other is agriculture.
GORANI: By the way, Donald Trump was saying we could strike one of the best deals ever, in fact trade volume could go up two to three times. For
that to happen, you need to open up markets and therefore lower standards, for instance, for agriculture products.
KLAAS: There's huge barriers to this. One, the buzzword that's often used, chlorinated chicken, the chicken that's produced in the United States
that's imported and having to lower food standards in this country.
But this is the thing, you have a sound bite president, who says we'll have a quick deal. He said this in January '17 and throughout his presidency.
When it comes to actually negotiation, there are very big roadblocks.
So the idea that Brexit will be saved by Donald Trump waiting at the cliff with open arms in case Britain goes off with a no deal and ends up hoping
to be saved, it is a myth. I think this is something that the people need to be aware of. There's no quick, easy trade deal. It's going to take a
long time and the stumbling blocks are not easy to overcome.
GORANI: He met with Nigel Farage through a side door, although he wasn't hiding or anything. And he had a phone call with Boris Johnson and Boris
Johnson was too busy to meet with him.
What do you make of these meetings?
PHILIP: I thought it was quite interesting that actually there was some less high profile candidates that he met with. So he's now met four or
five of them. I think he's spreading his bets.
It wasn't just -- if he had just met Nigel Farage, that could have caused a lot of consternation. Nigel Farage isn't even an MP or a perspective prime
minister. He's being slightly cannier about that than we first expected.
GORANI: What did you make of these meetings?
KLAAS: I think he's trying to figure out who he's going to be doing business with come July. He has a clear preference for this, which is his
preference is for the European Union to basically be broken up and for Britain to leave the European Union.
So he doesn't like multilateralism and he's going to probably back the candidate that is most aggressive towards a no-deal Brexit, which would be
bad for the United States and would be bad for the U.K. But it's something that Trump has backed.
GORANI: He also said he didn't know who Michael Gove was. And Gove might be embarrassed because he interviewed him back in 2017 and posted a picture
of the two of them with the thumbs up.
So that kind of as well -- as you said, he meets a lot of people. He's not going to remember everyone's name off the cuff like that.
Now the Ireland border comment, also, that was quite interesting. You have a problem at your border as well.
What did you make at that?
KLAAS: It's hard not to laugh about this. He doesn't understand the fundamental stumbling block to Brexit negotiations. He thinks there should
be a border when in fact everyone is trying to avoid a border.
The headlines that say this was a good state visit because there was no incident, I mean, the president of the United States didn't understand the
core issue of its most important ally, even on the most surface level basics. And I know he meets a lot of people but to not know a Tory
leadership contender --
[14:15:00]
KLAAS: -- a couple weeks before they might become prime minister is a mistake.
GORANI: Does it matter to Brits that he doesn't know this stuff?
Are they concerned with his level of knowledge about Brexit and borders?
Do they really care?
PHILIP: I think it plays into people's preconceptions that we already have about him. I think Brian is completely right. We're saying this is a
success but by his standards. It's a success because he hadn't messed up. We were expecting him to say something completely outrageous.
That press conference with Theresa May was very tightly managed and I think they were trying not to let him run away with it and say something
extraordinary. I think Brits just sort of have become used to this being.
GORANI: I guess the other question is are they in support of the idea of a state visit, like this is the highest honor. It's rare. I think people
didn't know. And I certainly didn't know before covering this story, that only three presidents total have been given this honor.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILIP: No, I don't think they are. I think that there is a great deal of sympathy from the idea that we have to engage America, it's a critical ally
and that relationship has support. I think what, you know -- it's done, it was promised long time ago, there was a lot of fuss.
I think it was still the way that Theresa May sort of shot across the Atlantic and offered it to him straightaway that riled the British public.
It looked demeaning. So I think that's actually -- she's got to carry responsibility for that.
GORANI: Brian, I know you're not a fan of Donald Trump but the latest polling is that most Americans think he'll be re-elected in 2020, do you
agree?
KLAAS: I don't right now. Because a lot of that polling has the question of would you consider voting for Donald Trump and 56 percent of people said
definitely not.
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: So 56 percent of people just feel defeated --
KLAAS: -- it's a very real phenomenon. The Democratic Party is people saying I will never vote for this person but I'm doomed to relive 2016 and
see my hopes and dreams crushed.
That's a narrative which is part of the Democratic Party which is playing into the primary election, where people are picking who is most electable,
rather than who their first choice is.
GORANI: That's not always a winning strategy, by the way. Brian Klaas, Catherine Philip, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your
time on the program this evening.
In just about an hour, a Mexican delegation will meet with U.S. officials to talk about President Trump's threats of tariffs over immigration.
Monday is the deadline. But White House officials are not expecting a deal to come out of this meeting, saying it's an opportunity for Mexico to show
what it's doing to avoid tariffs.
We're not exactly sure what the president wants to see and the Mexicans are saying they're confused about it as well. The top trade adviser to
President Trump say the threatened tariffs may not have to go into effect. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, TRUMP TRADE ADVISER: In my judgment, this is a brilliant strategic move to get the Mexicans to internalize some of the costs. Right
now the Mexican government makes money off illegal immigration. After the tariffs are put in place, the Mexican government will bear a cost of that.
We believe that these tariffs may not have to go into effect precisely because we have the Mexicans' attention. Vice President Pence will be
meeting with him today --
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRO: -- Secretary Pompeo and Ambassador Robert Lighthizer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Meanwhile, there's another escalation in China's trade war with Trump. Chinese regulators have fined American automaker Ford's main joint
venture more than $23 million for violating anti-trust laws.
It's just the latest tit-for-tat. On Tuesday, Beijing issued a travel advisory for Chinese citizens and companies planning to visit the U.S.
That came just after the Chinese government said it was investigating FedEx over a dispute the company has with Huawei.
And there have also been noises about Beijing preparing a blacklist of foreign companies and using rare earths in its trade war with Washington.
That is not resolving itself, that issue.
Still to come tonight, doctors in Sudan say dozens more victims have been found after this week's deadly military crackdown. The latest on the
political chaos there.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: There is a dramatic rise in the death toll from Monday's attack on pro-democracy demonstrators in Sudan. Doctors now say at least 100 people
were killed in the military crackdown. Dozens of bodies were found in the Nile River.
Protesters have demanded that the transitional military council, which has ruled the country since the ouster of president Omar al-Bashir, make way
for civilian rule. Instead, this is happening.
The attack is drawing international condemnation, including from the United Nations, but the people on the ground may think that's just not enough.
Farai Sevenzo is in Nairobi with the latest.
For several works, Farai, after Bashir was forced to step down, there was some hope that the military leaders would make way for this civilian
government. And now this is happening. This is starting to look like post-Arab Spring to me.
What are people on the ground saying is going on now?
Do they have any hope left that civilians will take over?
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, absolutely right. After all that euphoria after the fall of Bashir back the 11th of April, just recently,
things have completely turned sour.
We're looking at a situation where Sudan's committee of Sudanese doctors are telling us 101 people have died since the crackdown by the military.
And what seems to be happening from the outside looking in is that there seems to be two centers of power within the transitional military council.
Today, Lt. Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Burhan was supposed to be the man in charge of the council, reached out a conciliatory hand and said he wants to resume
negotiations, that the arms of the military are open to negotiate without restrictions.
But at the same time the man who's leading the rapid support forces, largely held responsible for what's been going on, the deaths, the
killings, including incidents of rape, Mr. Mohamed Hamdan, known as Hemeti, say that we will not allow chaos and he repeated that several times in his
speech today and said we will not go back on our convictions. There is no way back.
There's another thing in the mix here. Both men have been meeting regional leaders, including the leaders of Saudi Arabia, Prince Mohammed bin Salman,
who -- all these meetings are leading the people, the forces of freedom and change to say, there's more at work than just the military.
But those outside of the region want them to carry on holding power. Some distressing scenes that you've mentioned, of bodies being dragged out of
the River Nile and some of these bodies, believe it or not, Hala, had rocks attached to their feet, bricks and all manner of material.
Still, to completely defer but where these bodies are coming from and who was responsible. But at the moment, the situation in Sudan, from that
happiness of the fall of al-Bashir is simply going south. And it seems that the transition military council is speaking in a forked tongue with
the leader, saying they want negotiations and the man in charge of the rapid support forces saying otherwise -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes, it's difficult to see how those demonstrators can still trust those transitional military leaders after this bloodshed. Thank you very
much, Farai.
Protesters are also hitting the streets of Prague. Thousands of Czechs are marching. They're demanding the resignation of their billionaire prime
minister over conflicts of interest involving his former empire. Organizers say Tuesday's demonstrations were the largest in three --
[14:25:00]
GORANI: -- decades since the fall of communism. Atika Shubert has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tens of thousands poured into Prague's historic Wenceslas Square, demanding the
resignation of prime minister Andrej Babis, one of the largest protests since the fall of the Communist regime in 1989.
Tuesday was only the latest in a series of swelling weekly protests over corruption allegations against the prime minister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm not satisfied with Andrej Babis and what he's doing. I don't like it and that's why I came to
express it here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think it is good to defend the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHUBERT (voice-over): Andrej Babis has been called the Czech Trump, one of the country's richest men, building Agrofert, a business empire from
chemicals and agriculture.
Before he became prime minister in 2017, he placed his Agrofert holdings into several trusts but that empire and the controlling trusts are now
under scrutiny. Czech police investigated Agrofert's alleged misuse of more than $2 million in E.U. subsidies more than a decade ago, handing the
evidence to national prosecutors.
And a European Commission audit is now under way to probe possible conflicts of interest. Preliminary findings leaked to media last week
suggested that Agrofert should not have received E.U. subsidies in recent years and Babis, as founder and beneficiary of the controlling trust funds,
had not put enough distance between his executive power and his business holdings.
In parliament, as protesters filled the streets, Babis denied any wrongdoing and lashed out at the leaked audit report, denouncing the
auditors as "incompetent."
"The audit is very questionable," he said, "I consider it an attack on the Czech Republic and an attack on the interests of the Czech Republic and a
destabilization of the Czech Republic."
Transparency International, who have been monitoring the corruption allegations, issued a report in support of the Czech police investigation.
Their director joined in the protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Let's make a revolution into Babis' (INAUDIBLE). Get rid of him, ask for his resignation because enough
is enough.
SHUBERT (voice-over): For six weeks, demonstrators have taken to the streets of Prague, growing in size; now they have promised to return on
June 23rd, unless the prime minister resigns -- Atika Shubert, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come, we will return to the D-Day commemorations to honor the true heroes of this story, the veterans themselves, of course. A few
of the men who stormed the beaches of Normandy are making an emotional return. That story is ahead.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GORANI: Royals, presidents, and prime ministers came together today to mark an invasion that were changed the course of history and liberate
Western Europe from Nazi control. But the real guest of honor at the D-Day commemoration were these men, several hundred of the surviving veterans who
risked everything to storm the beaches of Normandy 75 years ago. They will never forget that day just as the free world will never forget their
sacrifice. Our Jim Bittermann followed along as some of the veterans made an emotional return to the Normandy coast.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The first time Vern Ollar sailed along the Normandy coast, it wasn't exactly on board a
luxury cruise ship. It was 75 years ago and his transport was a military landing craft heading for Omaha Beach on the coast of France. He barely
got there. His boat got hit and he almost drown, weighed down by heavy mortar equipment. But Ollar survived.
VERN OLLAR, 81ST CHEMICAL MORTAR BATTALION: We lost a lot of guys and I always get a little lump in my throat. As all those guys -- we had almost
2,000 D-Day, just on Omaha, 18, 19, 21-year-old guys. It makes me -- I get choked up.
BITTERMANN: At 98 years old, Ollar has come back along with 17 other vets on a tour organized by the National World War II Museum in New Orleans.
Scores of allied veterans is now at least in their 90s are in Normandy for this anniversary of D-Day, the last salute, some are calling it, since it's
not sure how many more years there'll be old soldiers around to share their living memories.
PAUL HILLIARD, CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL WWII MUSEUM: To keep that memory alive, there was a very high price paid for that freedom, so value it. So that's
-- I guess that's what we're trying to bring forward is the value of freedom.
BITTERMANN: So much of this year's commemoration is about remembrance not only for those who were here on Omaha Beach but for those who weren't. For
those who never knew or have forgotten exactly how much of modern Europe in today's world is based on what happened here 75 years ago.
Long gone, are the generals and colonels who gave the orders and understood the bigger picture and how important it was for the D-Day landings to
establish a toe hold on a continent that had lost its freedom. Those who came back this anniversary were well down in the ranks like paratrooper Guy
Whidden, who says he was just doing his job.
GUY WHIDDEN, 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION: I always thought God was with me. I don't remember any fear at all. Some apprehension, not knowing exactly
what was happening.
BITTERMANN: To help the vets and others understand just that, the importance of what they were part of, there were lectures and seminars
onboard our cruise ship to put D-Day in context.
And there was musical nostalgia to bring back a happy memory or two of what it would be like to feel young again.
But mostly thoughts this anniversary are serious about an event many here like Ollar, say changed their lives, changed the world forever. Jim
Bittermann, CNN, on the Normandy coast of France.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Let's talk more about this. I'm joined by historian Taylor Downing. Thanks for being with us.
So, you were telling me just now, in 1994, there were 20,000 D-Day veterans alive. Today how many?
TAYLOR DOWNING, HISTORIAN: Well, there's about 300 visiting the -- visiting the beaches tomorrow. It's the fact, I'm afraid, that as the
year's pass, the numbers decline. 20,000 when President Clinton went to Normandy in 1994. About 2,000 five years ago and President Obama went to
the beaches for the 70th anniversary, and now we're down to a few hundred. There's nothing we can do about that.
I think what we've got to think about is how to commemorate these events. You know, they don't end -- the commemorations don't end when there are no
more veterans left.
GORANI: Right.
DOWNING: And I think one of the interesting things about this afternoon is that the focus was on reading the letters, the diaries, the memories, all
of that will be left to us from the veterans, even when they are no longer with us.
GORANI: But what happens when the last survivor, the last surviving vet is gone and those who lived through that era also leave us. Then what happens
in terms of remembrance?
DOWNING: Well, as is -- we have to continue to remember these great events. It was one of the turning-point moments of the Second World War,
the D-Day invasion, the battle of Britain in 1940, the battle of Stalingrad in 1943 and D-Day are really the three moments that turned the -- turned
the war in the favor of the allies in the Second World War.
And we mustn't stop forgetting just like in the First World War. There are no veterans from the First World War left. But that doesn't mean to say we
must forget about it. We must continue our remembrance, we must continue their memory and we must continue to allow them to speak for themselves
even when they aren't there to speak.
[14:35:15] GORANI: The operation itself is what it still so fascinating and emotional in many ways. These were kids a lot of times being sent to
the beaches of Normandy. We have some visual record of that day, as opposed to World War I where that was rare, obviously. But this, we do
have although some of those photographs were lost because of the development of the film that was damaged.
DOWNING: Yes, that's right (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: But we still have that. Talk to us about the complexity of the operation.
DOWNING: There's no question that this was the most complex operation of the Second World War. You have to land in the case of the Normandy
invasions over a range of beaches about 50 miles apart. You have to land 130,000 150,000 men. You need to get all the material to support them onto
the beach. Thousands of jeeps, of tanks. Tens of thousands of tons of supplies and all of this is going on under direct fire from one of the most
fearsome defensive wars, the Atlantic War Festung Europa as Hitler called it.
One of the most fearsome defensive wars that pretty whatever been built. There's nothing as complicated as getting these men scrambling ashore and
then getting everything they need to follow them up.
And they used all sorts of incredible devices. You know, they invented tanks that would float in the water. They built harbors in several
different pieces in Britain that were then assembled like a dire jigsaw off the D-Day beach a few days after the invasion of being successful. To
bring in hundreds of thousands more men and millions of tons of supplies that were needed.
GORANI: Why was it successful?
DOWNING: It was successful --
GORANI: Because it wasn't a given at all.
DOWNING: It absolutely wasn't. It's very easy for historians and for all of us today who know the outcome to think, oh, you know, that's what
happened. It was a great success. But at the time, Churchill was deeply worried that it was going to fail. The British chief of the imperial
general staff was convinced that this was going to be a failure and a failure would not only set back the invasion of Europe, but it would set
back the whole war. Potentially be disastrous for the war.
I think it was successful for a whole variety of reasons. The weather that postponed it for a couple of days because the storms that came in meant
that the invasion had to be postponed from Monday to fifth to Tuesday the sixth of June.
Actually, in the end, it works in our favor because the Germanys who didn't have such good weather prediction as the British and the Americans did with
all their aircraft in the Atlantic, that could see the incoming weather from the Atlantic, the Germans thought nobody would invade in this weather
at all.
GORANI: They were expecting it but they were trying to figure out at what point it would go ahead.
DOWNING: They were expecting an invasion but they didn't know when it was coming. And Rommel, the chief German commander actually went home to
Germany to his wife's birthday. Because he thought the allies were never invaded in weather like this. A lot of other senior officers were away at
an exercise in another part of France where the invasion haven't saw. So the weather that postponed --
GORANI: There was an element of surprise there.
DOWNING: There was a big element of surprise but of course like all big enterprises as well, there was a lot of luck involved.
On some of the beaches, there was very little resistance, on Omaha Beach, as we know from the pictures, a movie like "Saving Private Ryan" captures
the horror on that beach, the bullets ricocheting off the steel of the landing craft, the blood, the sea filling with the blood red.
GORANI: That is accurate, how accurate is "Saving Private Ryan"?
DOWNING: That is accurate for that beach, Omaha Beach. Where the Americans had a really tough time getting ashore. I met a -- I've spoken
to a veteran who survived Omaha Beach, and I said, you know, you must have seen extraordinary things on that day. All he said was I dug a deep hole
in the sand and I hid in it for the whole day. And I said, yes, but you must have been witnessing the most remarkable experience. I'd -- I dug a
deep hole and sat in it for a whole day. He said that's how he survived.
GORANI: Well, and also it wasn't just a one-day operation, obviously, then there were weeks and weeks that were soldiers and troops had to retake that
territory beyond the beaches where they landed. So it wasn't -- we talk about that one day. But then it went on for a long time and many, many
people died in those weeks.
DOWNING: You're absolutely right. People often see D-Day as the end of a very long campaign of a huge build-up of all of these preparations we've
been talking about, hundreds of thousands of men, tens of thousands of vehicles and so on. D-Day wasn't the end, it was the beginning. It was
the beginning of a long campaign that lasted several months in Normandy. It wasn't until August that Paris was liberated. And of course, it wasn't
until May 1945, 11 months later, that the Germans actually surrendered.
At the same time, there were gargantuan battles taking place on the Eastern Front, the Soviet Red Army was confronting the German (INAUDIBLE), the
German Army in huge battles that were taking place there.
So, D-Day was a really important turning point, a really important step. It was only the first step.
[14:40:16] GORANI: But it wasn't the end.
DOWNING: It certainly wasn't the end.
GORANI: Well, I was just telling my team earlier, I visited the D-Day beaches a few times and I was in school in Normandy for a few years so I
had the opportunity. It is one of the most emotional experiences one can have because you see the cemetery, the Allied Cemetery, but also the German
Cemetery is interesting to visit. And it's interesting to just be there on that beach where it all happened.
DOWNING: It's very, very moving, I think. And as long as those cemeteries are there, as long as they are kept as beautiful as they are, the American
Cemetery at Omaha is a very moving place to visit. The British Cemetery at Brouay, it keeps along the way, kept by the Commonwealth War Graves
Commission. They keep these places beautifully attended and we need to. We need to ensure that those cemeteries are kept because they are the
visible evidence, the visible memorial of the future generations.
GORANI: Of the sacrifices and the cost of war.
DOWNING: And the cost of war.
GORANI: Thank you so much. Taylor Downing, a pleasure having you on the program.
DOWNING: Thank you very much.
GORANI: They are known as G.I. babies and they are a relatively unknown group that suffered as a result of World War II, biracial children in many
cases now in their 70s, born to African-American servicemen with white British mothers during the war.
Isa Soares spoke with some who are still searching for their identity in the U.K.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: When African-American soldiers arrived in Britain in the Second World War, their bravery was
instrumental in the war effort. But it was also the start of a story of love, loss, and a lifetime of searching.
DAVE GREENE, G.I. BABY: That is the first one that I can remember my mom's showing me of this handsome chap that she was so in love with.
SOARES: Around 2,000 mixed-race babies were born from relationships between black G.I.s and white British women. The romance is born from
wartime dances were torn apart by peace.
GREENE: She always spoke with great fondness of my father. She told me that she would have left to have gone to the states.
SOARES: The U.S. army refused black G.I.'s permission to marry their white British girlfriends or make paternity claims.
And she loved your father, you said.
GREENE: Yes, no doubt about it. No doubt about it. I don't think she ever got over him.
SOARES: After growing up in a white family more than 50 years passed before G.I. baby Dave Greene, tracked down and met his black father for the
first time in Brooklyn.
But many G.I. babies have never known the love of either of their parents. Hundreds of the mixed-race and so-called illegitimate babies were put into
children's homes, the stigma too much for many mothers to cope in what was then, a very white Britain.
At Holnicote House in Somerset, West England, around 20 mixed-race G.I. babies were raised until they reached the age of five. At which point,
they were sent to other homes or adopted. Their identity struggles began when they were sent away from other children that looked like them.
Deborah Prior and Carol Edwards were given up as babies by their mothers and lived together at Holnicote. They both remember their time there
fondly.
DEBORAH PRIOR, G.I. BABY: There was a group of us all about the same age, we were born, '44, '45, and we were in the cots together, we shared potties
together. We played together.
CAROL EDWARDS, G.I. BABY: We eat at the same plate.
PRIOR: We eat at the same plate. That was our family.
EDWARDS: Yes.
SOARES: But the pain of never really knowing their birth parents has defined their lives.
PRIOR: We weren't allowed to be white, and yet we weren't black.
EDWARDS: As a teenager, I did question, who was I? Who am I?
PRIOR: It's like a missing piece.
SOARES: New research for the book, Britain's Brown Babies, has only found one child successfully adopted by his American father.
LEON LOMAX, G.I. BABY: Yes, this is after they picked me up from the airport and brought me home.
I felt very lucky and very fortunate. It was really hard for him to find me. So, that's another way I'm fortunate.
SOARES: Leon's mother gave up rights to him as a baby. But at the age of three, his father tracked him down in a children's home and flew him to the
United States. He still bears the scars of his mother's choice.
LOMAX: There is always kind of like a void. And that void will always be there because I never got to meet her. I know as a kid, it really hurt me
when she left because I have a distant memory of standing in the corner of a crib, crying real hard. We said to my son --
[14:44:57] SOARES: Leon's questions remain, did she want to give him up or was she forced? Many years later, he found out where his mother was. She
had tragically died two years previously. Her gravestone was all he got to see.
LOMAX: There is just a lot of questions that I wanted to ask her. My sister - you know, gave me this picture and she also gave me her wedding
ring, which I wear all the time. And it was one of the best gifts I have ever gotten in my life.
SOARES: For hundreds of British G.I. babies, distant memories of love offer some comfort. But they will never quench the desire for answers.
Isa Soares, CNN, Somerset, England.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: A remarkable story is happening in Australia right now that raises real questions about the ethics of the Australian government. To
understand it, we need to take you back to 2017, when the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, ABC, aired an investigative report on the conduct
of Australian soldiers in Afghanistan.
Fast forward, two years. Instead of dealing with the allegations in the Afghan files as they are called, Australian authorities are focused on
shooting the messenger, if you will. On Wednesday, police stormed the headquarters of ABC to seize e-mails and other documents. Thousands of
them.
ABC executive editor John Lyons live-tweeted the entire incident starting with the police coming in the building ironically walking under a sign that
read, welcome. Lyons later tweeted out a picture of police putting USB flash drives into sealed evidence bags.
Authorities say the investigation concerns allegations of publishing classified material. The images of police poring over private e-mails
inside the offices of a major broadcaster are not something we often see in a free democratic society, or we shouldn't see it.
Joining me now is CNN chief media correspondent Brian Stelter. So, how our authorities justifying this?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Say that this is a legal practice part of an important investigation, and we do have the warrants
that back up the legality. We can -- we can show them to you because one of those journalists at ABC took photos of the warrants. The multi-page
long document allowing the police inside the newsroom to go through thousands of pages of documents.
And that's exactly what happened here at the ABC newsroom in Sydney. The report -- the authorities were able to do database searches for terms like
Afghanistan to find information about the reporting that took place in 2017 about those killings in Afghanistan. So, this journal -- these police
officials were going through the news records of the newsroom, some of the unpublished stories that drafts. Apparently looking for sources, looking
for information about the leaks.
It is a shocking development, Hala. We almost never see this in a democratic country like Australia. It has caused press freedom groups all
around the world to raise alarm bells right now.
[14:50:25] GORANI: Understand they seized and pored through thousands of documents and e-mails. I mean, it appears as though, they've left no stone
unturned here to try to figure out who leaked this information to the journalists at ABC.
STELTER: Right. And it is notable that at the end of this multi-hour-long process inside the newsroom, there was an agreement reached that the
federal authorities will not look at the documents in detail for two weeks. That provides a two-week period for the newsroom -- for the media company
to go to court and try to stop this from progressing any further.
So, there is a period of time here where there is some uncertainty. But to even see this rate happen in the first place is appalling. Groups like the
(INAUDIBLE) journalists are calling out Australia, saying, this directly threatens Australia's standing as a country that respects press freedom.
And the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Network is not the only outlet that's been targeted this week. There was also a journalist who works for
News Corp who had her home raided the other day.
GORANI: Yes.
STELTER: As she had been working on stories about spying on Australian citizens, and she had her home raided. So, something very troubling
happening on multiple fronts in Australia this week.
GORANI: And, by the way, the news director Gaven Morris had this to say about the raid.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GAVEN MORRIS, DIRECTOR, ANALYSIS AND INVESTIGATIONS, ABC NEWS: Our journalists do a really difficult job. I'm proud of the job they do. They
do it in the public's interest and journalism is not a crime.
So, I would say to all of the journalists at the ABC and all the journalists across Australia, don't be afraid of the job you do. Stand up
and be proud of it, and continue to act in the public's interest, knowing that the stories you tell and the service you provide the community is a
vital one for our democracy.
That's all I want to say, I can't say any more at the moment simply because obviously, on my -- on (INAUDIBLE) myself (INAUDIBLE). Thank you,
everybody. Thanks (INAUDIBLE) today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, we don't like to think that this is not a deterrent going forward to other journalists. But it's not just the journalist, it's the
journalist's sources who might be reluctant to come forward if they think authorities will then read the journalists office and uncover who the --
where the leak came from.
STELTER: And that chilling effect is the primary concern here. The head of the ABC News there said two key words, public interest. Reporting about
what happens in matters of war and peace are in the public interest. And there are laws in Australia that protect journalists working with sources
in the public interest.
But those laws are written loosely and they're being tested right now. This kind of test is happening in countries around the world. A reporter
in San Francisco recently at his door knocked in by police who were trying to find out his source for a story in the United States.
They are -- we are seeing this in countries around the world that are democratic countries. This is the San Francisco, example. Very
disturbing, Hala, so, this has go last month. These we are seeing case after case, signs that journalism is under attack from governments that in
the past have respected freedom of the press. This is a concern all around the world, and I think Australia right now is concern number one, because
of this pair of incidents this week.
GORANI: All right, I'm glad you brought up that San Francisco story as well. This wasn't even classified. This was a police report and they went
ahead and just basically busted, his name was --
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Right, busted down his door and the point throughout all of this is it's in the public's interest to have more information about what the
authorities are doing in our name. Whether that's in San Francisco, or whether that's in Sydney.
GORANI: Brian Stelter, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Still ahead, we'll bring you an incredible story about one 97-year-old D- Day veteran, and the remarkable way he's choosing to honor the friends we lost.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:36] GORANI: World leaders have been marking the 75th anniversary of D-Day here in Europe. Max Foster spent the day at the commemorations in
Portsmouth, England ahead of what will take place in Normandy. He has more from there on this momentous anniversary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Nearly 75 years on, thousands of members of the public came here to join heads of government and listen
to the testimony, firsthand testimony of those who lived through D-Day.
One of them was Roy (INAUDIBLE), he arrived the day after D-Day in France and he was as moves as the other veterans really by the amount of attention
they were getting here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you look back on there, know how many there was young (INAUDIBLE) side, we just feel let you and lucky to in for year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone who came here was struck by what a wonderful tribute was laid on at a special seating area next door to the Royal Docks.
And as you saw, there were several of them on the stage as well too. Now, stories were very, very movingly told.
FOSTER: Of course, at the front of everyone's minds were the thousands of men who lost their lives on D-Day. And the queen spoke for everyone when
she thanked them on behalf of the free world for everything that they did to create the world that we now live in. Max Foster, CNN, Portsmouth,
England.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And we want to end tonight with this incredible story. Just as they did, 75 years ago, parachutes once again flew over Normandy. This
time as a tribute. 97-year-old U.S. Army veteran Tom Rice was among them. He recreated the jump he made back in 1944. There he is.
When he descended into gunfire in Normandy, France, obviously, all those years ago along with thousands of others, many of those men would not
return, Tom was one of the lucky ones and today, he glided down into roughly the same area where he landed on D-Day.
He spent the last six months preparing for the jump. And in case, you're wondering, how the 97-year-old is doing after that incredible job? Here is
what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RICE, PARATROOPER VETERAN: Thank you. I feel great. I go back up and do it again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, a truly fitting way to honor and remember his fellow soldiers, especially those who never made it home from France.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. I'll see you next time. Do stay with CNN, there's a lot more ahead. On the other side of this break,
it's "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS"
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
END
