Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
British Diplomatic Cables Leak Investigation Continues; President Trump Defends Alex Acosta Amid Jeffrey Epstein Questions; Carrie Lam Declares Extradition Bill Dead But Protests Will Continue; Trump Unleashes New Insults On U.K. Ambassador To U.S.; NASA Recruits Duran Duran For 50th Anniversary Concert; Yazidi Women Seeking Help For PTSD In Israel; Instagram Rolls Out Anti-Bullying Features. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 09, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:23] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, the special relationship under real strain as Donald Trump calls Britain's ambassador to Washington wacky and a pompous fool.
Also tonight, a member of Donald Trump's cabinet is facing calls to resign over his handling of a plea deal for Jeffrey Epstein more than a decade
ago.
And I sit down with '80s superstars Duran Duran, who tell me about their unique next gig, which will be out of this world. Stay tuned for that.
It is one of the most enduring alliances in recent history, a special relationship forged between the closest of friends. But American president
Donald Trump now appears to be attempting to tell Britain who's boss when it comes to bilateral diplomacy.
He's refusing, he says, to deal with the U.K. ambassador to Washington after leaked cables showed him -- showed Kim Darroch calling Mr. Trump
"inept," and his White House, "chaotic." And now, escalating attacks. President Trump slammed the ambassador on Twitter as "wacky" and "very
stupid," even calling British Prime Minister Theresa May, "foolish" for ignoring his Brexit advice.
Let's get more now from our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson. He's following developments tonight from Gibraltar.
I'll get to the reaction inside the U.K., which is quite interesting. But first of all, big picture. Where does this spat, this escalating spat, go
from here?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, it does have the opportunity of a very fast and swift off-ramp. The British prime minister,
obviously, has backed Sir Kim Darroch and backed the way that ambassadors, British ambassadors, as is common practice for all our ambassadors with
their own nations, to report back, you know, full, frank and fair assessments of the people that they're meeting and the leaders that they're
dealing with.
But the off-ramp is quite simple, that Theresa May, the current British prime minister, will be out of her position within a couple of weeks. And
her replacement may feel and have the opportunity -- and may feel that doesn't share the complete sort of similar understanding of global issues
and many issues, in particular, Brexit in the U.K. is the main point here - - with the current ambassador. And therefore may switch out the ambassador, you know, ahead of Sir Kim Darroch's time in Washington sort of
normally being up through the normal diplomatic cycle.
So there's your off-ramp. There's the opportunity. But at the moment, this is, you know, one ambassador in private cables that are leaked,
dissing, if you will, in the president's eyes -- the president of the United States -- and the U.S. president responding, as he does, full
frontal in full public view, on Twitter.
And then taking it a level up by disrespecting the British prime minister, and you had the British foreign secretary saying precisely that. "This is
disrespectful, this is not a way to conduct business."
GORANI: Yes.
ROBERTSON: So the off-ramp exists and that's probably what will happen.
GORANI: Right. And you mentioned the foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt -- who's, by the way, in the running to become the next British prime minister
-- and there's been a huge disparity in reaction between Jeremy Hunt, the current foreign secretary, and Boris Johnson, who's the frontrunner in that
race to lead the Conservative Party.
And Jeremy Hunt actually tweeted at the U.S. president, saying, "Real Donald Trump friends speak frankly, so I will. These comments are
disrespectful and wrong to our prime minister and my country."
You're saying there's a diplomatic off-ramp. And of course there is. These are very close allies. But at the same time, in recent memory, we
haven't seen this type of spat between the two countries before.
ROBERTSON: We haven't. And I think perhaps what we're seeing here is a real insight into the way that Brexit has eaten at British politics.
Because that's why Theresa May is on the way out of her job. That's why Boris Johnson and Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt will face off in this only
television debate that they're having in this leadership contest that they're having.
But perhaps the real issue here is that Sir Kim Darroch's outing, if you will, with these very sensitive cables, was a politically motivated move in
the first place, to replace a more pro-E.U. ambassador in Washington with somebody who might be more akin to a hardline Brexit prime minister in
London.
It is Boris Johnson that's expected to win that position. And I think when you see Jeremy Hunt say anything in these recent weeks, and particularly
today, calling -- you know, what he's just said about President Trump's comments here, he is -- you could certainly read the situation, that Jeremy
Hunt is trying to set the agenda in the TV debate tonight.
Where, with Boris Johnson -- and Boris Johnson sees himself as an ally and friend of President Trump, so he will be trying to use that, I think one
can expect, that the foreign secretary takes one view of saying this about President Trump, and we can expect him to be calling out Boris Johnson to
try to take a similar clear line.
However, the reality at the moment is --
GORANI: Yes.
ROBERTSON: -- Boris Johnson's still expected to win that leadership challenge. But the point being --
GORANI: Sure.
ROBERTSON: -- is Brexit is miring everything at the moment in British politics.
GORANI: Absolutely. And there are those in the U.K. who are saying this leak was the -- what was unacceptable, not what the ambassador himself
said.
Tom Tugendhat, who I hope to be speaking to a little bit later -- he's the chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, had to run back into the Commons
for a vote but he'll be back out hopefully -- he essentially called the leak "an act of treason." And how many people have access to these cables?
Can it be that hard to figure out who leaked this to the press?
ROBERTSON: You know, we've seen the prime minister sack her defense secretary over the leak of very sensitive national security information,
the debate over how much and if Huawei, the Chinese 5G manufacturer, would provide components and parts for the British 5G network. She sacked the
defense secretary, believing that the leaks came from him.
There's a real sort of sense -- and again, I go back to Brexit and British politics, not to belabor the point, but you have the leader of the
opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, on the front pages of the newspapers, being described as somebody unfit to perhaps lead the country.
You have questions being raised about Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England. You have questions about David Lidington, Theresa May's chief
deputy, if you will, on the way that he handled the investigation into leaks about Huawei.
But they all seem to have a political motivation in the context of Brexit. So that's why I say that a lot of this has to do with Brexit. It is a lot
of dirty laundry that never normally gets --
GORANI: Yes.
ROBERTSON: -- washed, now being essentially washed in public.
GORANI: Absolutely. Nic Robertson, thanks so much, joining us live from Gibraltar.
The U.S. president, Donald Trump, is sticking up for his labor secretary amid growing calls for his resignation. Top Democrats are calling for Alex
Acosta to step down over a plea deal he made many years ago, as U.S. attorney, with accused child predator Jeffrey Epstein.
At the White House a short time ago, Mr. Trump defended Acosta and praised the job he's done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I do know is that he's been a great -- really great secretary of labor. The rest of it, we'll
have to look at. We'll have to look at it very carefully. But you're talking about a long time ago. And, again, it was a decision made, I
think, not by him but by a lot of people. So we're going to look at it very carefully.
I feel very badly, actually, for Secretary Acosta because I've known him as being somebody that works so hard and has done such a good job. I feel
very badly about that whole situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: No mention of the victims in this case, but the president is saying he feels badly for his secretary of labor. Brynn Gingras is in New
York. Abby Phillip is in Washington, and they're both following this story.
And, Abby, the secretary of labor himself, Alex Acosta, tweeted, saying that new evidence justifies a fresh look at the case. But not explaining
why he gave Epstein that sweetheart deal without informing the victims.
TEXT: Secretary Acosta: Now that new evidence and additional testimony is available, the N.Y. prosecution offers an important opportunity to more
fully bring him to justice.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And he seemed to not even really acknowledge his role in coming up with that plea agreement.
He referred to federal prosecutors in that series of tweets, implying that perhaps it was someone else.
But we're talking about Alex Acosta, who was the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of Florida at the time. So it seems that he's trying to
address some of the fallout, but it's not clear that that's going to be enough.
According to our sources, the president is watching this coverage. He's looking to see how bad it really is, and whether or not this is -- this is
something that he and both Alex -- and Alex Acosta can weather.
It's not clear to a lot of White House officials right now, where he will come down on this issue. They've said that there is some kind of review
happening, of Acosta's role in this plea deal at the White House. But they've given almost no updates or any references whatsoever, to such a
review for several months now.
So it's not even clear what that review is, what its scope is. It seems that White House aides are waiting to see whether President Trump is
willing to stand by his man. I think when you listen carefully to what President Trump said today, he spoke --
GORANI: Yes.
PHILLIP: -- specifically about Alex Acosta's role as his secretary of labor. He didn't talk more broadly about whether or not he found his role
in the Epstein case to be acceptable, and I think that is what we're going to be looking carefully at in the coming days and weeks, as we find out
whether or not he's going to stay in this role, considering all the calls coming from Democrats for him to resign.
[14:10:14] GORANI: Right. And that's going to be the question going forward, whether Donald Trump -- whether this case goes away, the pressure
on Acosta goes away, whether or not the president himself, then, is under pressure. Because he's talked up members of his administration, that he
then let go. That's happened in the past.
Brynn Gingras, we're finding out new details about what was in that mansion in New York during the FBI raid, and may have a graphic here with some of
the objects. And the pictures of nude underage girls in a locked safe -- or presumed underage girls in a locked safe -- and some really jaw-dropping
things, like a life-size female doll hanging from a chandelier.
TEXT: Inside Epstein's Mansion: Nude photos of girls locked in safe; Massage table; Sex toys; Life-size female doll hanging from chandelier;
Prison mural of himself; Chess pieces modeled after staffer
GORANI: What more are we learning about what happened and what was found during that raid?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we know right now that Jeffrey Epstein, he has two federal charges against him with sex
trafficking. They're very serious charges. They're ones he was similarly facing many years ago.
But he's in jail right now, behind bars. He's waiting for a bail hearing. Remember, prosecutors are arguing here that he should be kept behind bars
until there is any court trial for this, because of his enormous wealth. They referenced the fact that he has three U.S. passports, he has two
private jets, he has numerous cars. So he's certainly a flight risk.
And at this point, yes. The investigation, it was jaw-dropping. Investigators essentially say that he was sexually abusing, from 2002 to
2005, dozens of women, some as young as 14 years old. And that's how investigators even found pictures of young women or young-looking women,
some in nude photographs.
And that he would lure these women -- or young girls to his homes, either in Palm Beach, Florida or in Manhattan, here in New York City. And he
would pay them money, hundreds of dollars, to give him massages. But that would escalate into sex acts, in some cases, either on him or he would do
it to those girls, according to this indictment that was unsealed yesterday.
And then even worse than that is the fact that prosecutors say, then he would ask those women to go find more girls for him, creating this huge
conspiracy of sex trafficking. So those are the charges he's facing. Those are the charges he's behind bars.
But certainly, the fact that that case that Acosta handled years ago, that is still even coming up today in reference to this case as well.
GORANI: And, Abby, the president was hosting the emir of Qatar in the Oval Office, and he was asked about whether or not he knew Jeffrey Epstein. He
said, "I barely knew him. I haven't spoken to him in 15 years or so." Though he did speak effusively of him in a 2002 magazine profile. So the
two men did know each other.
PHILLIP: They certainly did. And they -- they were running in some of the same social circles. The president referenced that today, saying that he
was in the Palm Beach area, that he knew him because of that connection. That in fact at one point, Epstein was a member at Mar-a-Lago. So they did
have a connection.
But Trump added, today, that they had some kind of falling-out, which caused them to stop being acquainted with each other. We don't know
exactly what that is, but the president specifically referenced a falling- out with Jeffrey Epstein.
But as you point out, they were in the same social circles, as -- Epstein has been in social circles with Democrats as well, although I think at that
time, frankly, Donald Trump may very well have been a Democrat. He only became a Republican more recently.
So Jeffrey Epstein is someone who has ties to this White House, but the White House is stressing, those ties ended over a decade ago and in -- and
President Trump reiterated that today, that he believes that his ties to Epstein are so long ago that they don't factor into these charges that he
faces this week.
GORANI: Well -- we know Epstein did frequent the rich, the famous, politicians, all sorts of powerful people over the years. Abby Phillip,
thanks very much.
Brynn Gingras in New York.
Well, billionaire and former U.S. presidential candidate Ross Perot has died, aged 89, after a battle with leukemia. The eccentric business tycoon
used his billions to launch two independent presidential runs in the 1990s. He held his own on the debate stage, with Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush
in '92, if you're old enough to remember that.
Perot achieved nearly 19 percent of the popular vote in that race, making him one of the most successful third-party presidential candidates in U.S.
history.
Still to come tonight, the controversial Hong Kong extradition bill is dead. Or is it? What the Hong Kong chief executive is saying about the
bill, and why pro-democracy activists say they don't believe her.
[14:15:10] And later on, I sat down with '80s icons Duran Duran to chat about their upcoming concert and how they got involved with NASA. We'll be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The Hong Kong chief executive says a controversial extradition bill is dead. But pro-democracy activists say they don't believe her.
They want Carrie Lam to quash (ph) it for good. And that's just the beginning for them. Anna Coren has more in Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After a month of mass protests here in Hong Kong over a controversial extradition bill, the city's chief executive,
Carrie Lam, tried to address the crisis and placate the protestors' anger and resentment.
But her mea culpa was rejected by the protestors, who are demanding a full withdrawal of the bill.
COREN (voice-over): For Hong Kong, it's been a summer of discontent. The city, rocked by weeks of unprecedented protests against a controversial
extradition bill, which would allow suspected criminals to be sent to mainland China.
As the protests threaten to drag on, Hong Kong's chief executive, Carrie Lam, tried to quell the anger. "The bill," she said, "is effectively
dead."
CARRIE LAM, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE: There are still lingering doubts about the government's sincerity. Or worries whether the government will
restart the process in the Legislative Council. So I reiterate here, there is no such plan. The bill is dead.
COREN (voice-over): He pledge was met with disbelief by protestors, who say she hasn't gone far enough.
BONNIE LEUNG, VICE CONVENOR, CIVIL HUMAN RIGHTS FRONT: Without these real actions that Hong Kong people demand, we cannot move forward. And with two
million people expressly endorsing our five demands, and without Carrie Lam answering any of them, the protest is about to be carrying on.
COREN (voice-over): The protestors are demanding the bill is formally withdrawn. After weeks of often violent clashes between protestors and
police, it's not their only complaint. They want an independent inquiry into the use of tear gas and rubber bullets to disperse the crowds. And
charges dropped against those who have been arrested. Some are even calling for Lam's resignation.
For critics, today's announcement is too little, too late to calm the anger on the streets.
CLAUDIA MO, PRO-DEMOCRACY LAWMAKER: Some would even say it's a volcanic eruption. And this -- this silly Carrie Lam has been trying to stop it
with a garden hose. That's -- how more preposterous can you get?
COREN (voice-over): But some say both sides must try to find a middle ground.
[14:20:02] ALAN HOO, CHAIRMAN, BASIC LAW INSTITUTE: Trust has to be from both sides. I think that the government is also saying, "Yes, you want me
to do something to let you trust me. It needs to be reciprocated, right? What you're doing now is basically dictating to me. "
GORANI: The protests have brought renewed international attention to bigger questions about the control exerted by the Chinese government in
Hong Kong.
Earlier this week, tensions were on display at the U.N. Commission for Human Rights in Geneva, where pop star and pro-democracy activist Denise Ho
said China had reneged on the commitments it made when it took control of Hong Kong more than two decades ago. Chinese diplomats accused her of
baseless attacks.
DENISE HO, SINGER: The one country, two systems is nearing its death. Protests are still ongoing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a point of order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Just now, this speaker, for no proper reason, attacked China's one country, two systems. For this, China
expresses its resolute opposition.
COREN (voice-over): The question now is, what will it take the calm the fears in this city and stop people's anger spilling onto the streets.
COREN: Protestors say they feel emboldened by Lam's concession and will continue with demonstrations in the weeks and months ahead until all their
demands are met.
And despite Beijing reaffirming its commitment to Carrie Lam and to the Hong Kong government, the pro-democracy lawmakers that we spoke to believe
her days are numbered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Thanks very much for that.
A French court has opened a trial against Princess Hassa bint Salman. Princess Hassa is the sister of the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin
Salman. She's accused of conspiring to kidnap and beat a workman at her family's luxury apartment in Paris because she suspected that he was trying
to take a picture of her.
The princess has refused to return to Paris since the incident happened in 2016, so she's being tried in her absence. Melissa Bell is following the
case. She joins us live from Paris.
What precisely is Princess Hassa accused of having done to this workman in her apartment?
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, his version, Hala, is very different from the version being given from the princess' lawyers and,
indeed, those who are representing today, in an audience that continues here, tonight, in Paris. The bodyguard, who is accused of directly
assaulting the plumber.
What the plumber says happened is that he was simply trying to take a picture of the room in which he was going to be working, Hala. And that he
was then seized, he was attacked, he was assaulted for several hours, threatened with both death and rape and told that he was a dog, made to
kiss the princess' feet.
TEXT: Saudi Princess Stands Trial, Accused of Ordering Beating: Alleged victim was refurbishing her Paris flat in 2016; Hassa bint Salman allegedly
became angry over photo he took; Workman says he was tied up, beaten and forced to kiss her feet
BELL: That is in stark contrast to what the princess and her lawyers and the lawyers of the bodyguard are saying. They're saying, in fact, that
this was a plumber who'd come in, intent on making a buck by selling what footage he managed to get, to the newspapers. And that they had realized,
over the course of his involvement, that he'd taken a picture and a video of her in which she was seen wearing fairly light clothing.
And this is something that matters a great deal for cultural reasons, they say. Indeed, there are no pictures of the princess, going back, any more
recent, that is, than when she was eight years old. And she's now in her mid-40s.
So it was because they were so keen on preventing any such image getting into the media, that the man's mobile phone was taken. Indeed, the judge
today has regretted the fact that that mobile phone was destroyed. And whatever it was that happened that day, back in 2016 at the apartment of
Hassa bint Salman, happened. Since that would have provided the ultimate proof of what the plumber was or was not trying to do that day -- Hala.
GORANI: Right. But so, does she have evidence -- I mean did he go to the hospital, is there a record of him having sustained these injuries that he
says he sustained?
BELL: That is exactly the point in this. And you're right, Hala. in French law that represents so much. This plumber went to medical
authorities. He got proof -- he got certification, if you like, from medical authorities, that he had sustained injuries that he says were
consistent with his having been tied up: on his wrists, to his face.
He was given five days off. And in French courts, that's what matters a great deal: how much the doctors believe you should have as time off in
the wake of a sustained injury. And that has been provided to the court as well.
Of course, it now rests in the hands of the judge. He has yet to pronounce his verdict. But as you say, the princess herself is not in France.
Indeed, she hasn't come back since that arrest warrant was issued in 2017.
And again, her lawyer, repeating to the French press today that one of the reasons she simply didn't want to come back to France, Hala, was that she
was worried about the lenses of the cameras that would be fixed on her as a result.
[14:25:03] It's important to stress at this point that she does deny any of the allegations. Indeed --
GORANI: Yes.
BELL: -- on the very same day that the plumber filed his allegations, a counter-allegation was filed. The people, the lawyers representing the
princess, filing a claim for defamation as well.
GORANI: But I just -- there's something that -- I mean, is the French press that interested in Princess Hassa bint Salman, that any picture that
someone will take of her in her residence would make big money?
Like, I mean, I didn't realize that --
BELL: Well, one of the things that we -- we --
GORANI: -- that -- that was going to be such a hot commodity, a cell phone picture of Princess Hassa, who known one's seen since she was eight years
old.
BELL: I have to say that this has been very little-followed by the French press so far. No doubt they're waiting --
GORANI: Yes.
BELL: -- for a verdict. But we've been following court proceedings from the inside all day, and we've been struck by the fact that this was really
not that closely followed by the French press. There were, of course, articles, Hala, relating to the time when she had been taken in for
questioning for two hours before being released so that she could go back to Saudi Arabia.
But I think that is because the reason it was followed (ph) at all is that it is not the first time that the Saudi royal family has been involved in
court cases or in near-shaves (ph) with the law, that is has escaped through its diplomatic immunity. And I think that is why the press
followed it at all to begin with.
Now, very much --
GORANI: No (ph) --
BELL: -- waiting to see what the outcome of this is. And perhaps more importantly, Hala, how this then weighs on relations between the French
president and the Saudi royals, given that this is a relationship that is said to count --
GORANI: Yes.
BELL: -- a great deal for France, for reasons of arms sales, because it is considered its strategic partner in the Gulf. Will -- would a guilty
verdict in this case --
GORANI: Yes.
BELL: -- then weigh upon those relations? I think that is one of the questions that's being asked.
GORANI: I get -- it's -- I may not have worded my question properly, but this -- the defense side in this case, the princess, her bodyguard there,
lawyers are saying that the plumber was trying to take pictures, potentially to sell them to the press.
I guess my question was, at the time that this incident happened, was there any interest at all in this particular Saudi royal? I mean, that's -- that
version of events just doesn't necessarily ring like something that makes sense to me.
BELL: No, you're absolutely right, Hala. No huge appetite from the French press here. But what they say is that for those cultural reasons, any
picture of the royal -- of the sister of the crown prince getting out, would have meant (ph) appetite in the press, and that is what they're
accusing the plumber of, of coming -- of having come in deliberately to try and get pictures of a woman who is famously private.
And it isn't just a question of her privacy and her pictures, and it is said that no picture of her exists beyond the age of eight years old. It
is also the fact that she has, within Saudi Arabia, the reputation of being particularly down-to-earth, of being very involved in charity work, for
instance.
And I suspect that it is as much about protecting her reputation as it is about preventing anyone from getting any photographs of her -- Hala.
GORANI: Sure. Well, if you believe the plumber, her reputation is going to take a hit for sure. Thanks very much. Melissa Bell, live in Paris,
appreciate it.
For the first time, the Taliban have held peace talks with member of the Afghan government. The two sides met in Qatar for a couple of days. The
Taliban have called the government "A puppet of the west," so even sitting down for preliminary conversations is seen as somewhat significant.
The talks ended with an agreement to keep talking, and a pledge to minimize civilian casualties in their conflict. Let's hope they stick to that part
of it.
[14:28:29] Still to come tonight, more on the escalating diplomatic spat between the U.S. and its closest ally. The special relationship is under
strain, and Donald Trump is making that clear on Twitter. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:17] GORANI: Let's return to an escalating diplomatic row, as they call it here in the U.K. between two close allies. The so-called special
relationship between the U.K. and the U.S. seems to be in serious trouble.
It started with less than flattering remarks about the U.S. President made by the U.K. ambassador to Washington being leaked over the weekend.
Now, President Trump has called Kim Darroch very stupid and wacky on Twitter.
Well, the British government reaffirms its full support for the diplomat, Nic Robertson explains how we got here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): The fall- out continues. Liam Fox, U.K. trade secretary, on his way to meet Ivanka Trump without embattled British ambassador, Kim Darroch. Darroch's leaks
cable critical of Trump proving diplomatic dynamite, earning a Presidential rebuke.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not a big fan of that man and he has not served the U.K. well.
ROBERTSON: And getting him disinvited from a diplomatic dinner at the White House. U.K.'s former diplomats closing ranks behind Darroch.
CHRISTOPHER MEYER, FORMER U.K. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: It just shows President Trump's sensitivity, his insecurity, which Kim himself bore
witness to and it's a typical reaction by a President when anybody disrespects him as he sees it and I'm afraid that the consequences are
entirely predictable.
ROBERTSON: Two big questions now, Darroch's future to ambassador to D.C. and who leaked his incendiary comments. P.M. Theresa May is standing by
her man, defending Darroch.
But in two weeks, she is gone. Given her replacement an opportunity to clean house in D.C. and possibly appoint a more Trump-friendly ambassador.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Mr. President (INAUDIBLE) doing well.
Who dumped Derek's private thoughts likely has its roots in Brexit. Britain's top tier civil servants, the oil that grease the government's
smooth running, are finding them themselves caught in the cross currents of rivalries causing through U.K. politics.
Darroch, a former ambassador to the E.U., may be no exception, perceived that home is pro E.U., his exit potentially clearing the way for a pro-
Brexit ambassador.
MEYER: You always have to ask yourself the question who benefits and here, there is a possible range of villains who come into the frame, I'm not
going to name anybody, but it was clearly somebody who set out deliberately to sabotage Sir Kim's ambassadorship.
ROBERTSON: In the meantime, Trump is flip-flopped again on his handling of Brexit.
TRUMP: I believe the prime minister has brought it to a very good point where something will take place in the not too distant future. I think
she's done a very good job.
ROBERTSON: Replacing recent praise with a Twitter tirade. "I told that Theresa May how to do that deal, but she went her own foolish way and
wasn't able to get it done. A disaster. I don't know the ambassador but I'm told he is a pompous fool."
Friends describe Darroch as a tough man with a cool head who won't be easily panicked. How quickly the diplomatic damage can be patched up
depends a lot on Trump and the next British prime minister, likely Boris Johnson, who as a friend of the U.S. President will hope to clean the slate
fast.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Gibraltar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, Bianca Nobilo joins me now. And there' a very important debate, Bianca, here between Jeremy Hunt, the current foreign secretary
who's running to become the next leader of the Conservative Party and Boris Johnson who will likely to become the next prime minister.
[14:35:03] Jeremy Hunt tweeted directly at Donald Trump, and he said to him as a friend, I've got to tell you what you said about our prime minister,
what you said about our ambassador is insulting. It's wrong to our prime minister and disrespectful. But we have not heard from Boris Johnson.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We haven't, and tonight in the debate, which was the first and only one on one debate we're going to
see in this leadership contest between the current foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, and the former foreign secretary, his predecessor, Boris
Johnson, the man favored to win, as you mentioned.
Now, Jeremy Hunt in his capacity as foreign secretary did need to address this. It is really within his rim that he has to back pat the foreign
office. He needs to support the ambassador on Twitter by calling the remarks of the President disrespectful. He may have gone a bit further.
We see him there in his leadership campaign mode as opposed to his foreign secretary mode.
Perhaps, Boris Johnson doesn't need to make a statement about this. He is not foreign secretary. But I'm sure the debate in about half an hour's
time we're going to see him push on that. And that's probably why Jeremy Hunt made these remarks.
GORANI: If he does not say that the President was disrespectful and wrong to say these things, will that hurt him? Because he'll be seeing, after by
the way, many of our viewers know and several years ago as mayor of London, he called the U.S. President unfit to be President of the United States and
accused him of stupifying ignorance.
He'll hold back for obvious reasons, because he's the next prime minister, if he is indeed the prime minister. He'll have to maintain good relations
with the U.S. President.
But with the conservative party, will this be seen as something that could hurt him if he doesn't come out and out right say what the President did
was wrong?
NOBILO: Well, first of all, Boris Johnson also once said there was a greater chance of him being reincarnated as an Olive, and becoming prime
minister, so we should take with the pinch of salt. Some of the things Boris Johnson has said, in terms of the Conservative Party memberships, so
this is the 160,000 people that ultimately make this decision as to who's going to be the next leader and whose going to be the next prime minister.
It's hard to say how this will resonate. The conservative base is they tend to be more pro-Atlantis to their -- the relationship between the U.K.
and America. They all predominantly in favor of Brexit, so they would prefer to orientate themselves towards America, rather than the United
Kingdom.
GORANI: But they want a good relationship with America. They don't want to be bullied by the U.S. President and called names.
NOBILO: They don't. But then when we consider the language around the E.U. or vestige, et cetera. Clearly, the framing of the debate is more
favorable towards being and then slightly serving position to America than it is to the European Union as logical as that might be to some people.
So it's hard to say how that would resonate. You mention the fact that Boris Johnson is considered to be a friend of Donald Trump's. Donald Trump
also speaks favorably about Jeremy Hunt during state visits. And that really is the key point here. Because the fact that there's a leak is
deeply problematic when it comes to Britain's allies trusting the United Kingdom in the future. There's also been the spate of leaks from the
National Security Council in the U.K. and cabinet and so on.
But really this strikes at the heart of what happens next, the relationship of the next Prime Minister forms with this administration. So the hope is,
clearly, from the Trump administration, that the new prime minister presses the reset button on this relationship and put somebody else in that --
GORANI: But they're keeping the ambassador there for now, even though his time in Washington was going to be up in a few months anyway.
NOBILO: Exactly.
GORANI: But the optics of removing him before his time is up would be terrible, would it?
NOBILO: They would be terrible. So now, they're in a really challenging position. Because obviously, by Donald Trump saying, we will not deal with
this ambassador anymore, meaning the administration. That does severely compromise Darroch's ability to do any constructive work in his position.
But equally, as you say, United Kingdom can't be seen to be taking a directive from the United States on who their ambassador should be. Some
have suggested that maybe he could resign, acknowledging the fact that it will be difficult for him to continue in his post. But remains an option,
but we haven't heard anything to suggest that just yet.
GORANI: Bianca, thanks very much, and we'll see you in the coming hours with more on this important story.
And, Bianca, I don't know, have you heard of Duran Duran? You must have.
NOBILO: I have heard of them. You did an interview.
GORANI: I did. I did. But Duran Duran is from the '80s. So they're big iconic band of the '80s. And what's interesting about their songs and
their music is that it really has some staying power, I think, and probably some of the songs that perhaps younger people don't know by name, they
would recognize if they heard them.
And it is a moment -- so this is all being -- this is all -- we're having some -- a moment that change history and a band that change history all
happening at the same time. That moment is the moon landing and it's being celebrated by Duran Duran, who will play a unique show at the Kennedy Space
Center for a gala marking the 50th anniversary since the Apollo moon landing.
And for this special tribute, the band reached out to the artist duo known as Studio Drift to create a unique light show spectacular. There'll be in
fact hundreds of drones that will light up the outdoor concert in honor of NASA.
[14:40:07] The band is still making new music and creating new tracks. I sat down with Simon Le Bon and Nick Rhodes who told me all about it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIMON LE BON, DURAN DURAN MEMBER: In Duran Duran, we have a songs which have some tenuous space links, maybe one of them mentions the moon, that
sort of thing. That's all it takes.
GORANI: And planet earth is not tenuous lines.
LE BON: Exactly. No, it's pretty much sort of the story about being your planet.
NICK RHODES, DURAN DURAN MEMBER: I went to visit NASA and -- about a year ago and I said, what are you doing for your 50th anniversary? That's a big
one next year. And they said, well, we're just planning at the moment, you wouldn't come and play, would you? I said, well, yes, of course.
It changed things. It pulled the world together in a very positive way.
GORANI: How will it be different from what people have come to expect in a just more traditional Duran Duran concert?
LE BON: The fact that we're playing in front of three enormous rockets will be --
GORANI: In the rocket garden, literally?
RHODES: Yes. I mean, this is the mother of all launched passes. That's a part. Sorry.
GORANI: I've got to ask you some questions that viewers have asked me to ask you, because just a few minutes ago, I asked my Twitter followers, what
would you ask Duran Duran? The "Reflex" is one of my favorite Duran Duran tracks. What inspired the song and what is it about?
LE BON: That's kind of a bleak way of getting -- trying to get me to explain the lyric of the Reflexes, isn't it? Which I never do.
Mary Poppins, when she's walking up the stairs and Mr. Banks says to her, Mary Poppins, will you please explain? And she turns around and she says,
Mr. Banks, before I go any further, I'd like to make one thing clear. I never explained anything.
GORANI: How are you still inspired to write new materials? Because it's not every band that's been together this long that still produces new
material.
RHODES: We like change and we like flexibility. So we never really found a sound and just stuck with it all the time. In fact, we try and do
exactly the opposite when we make a new album. We look to how we can stretch it in a different direction.
LE BON: We stop playing and we start jamming around and somebody will play something that will remind somebody else of an idea that they've gotten and
songs kind of -- it's almost like a candy floss, like going in the machine, just gathering more and more stuff around it.
GORANI: Explain your longevity, because again, that's unusual, for bands to stick together this long. Do you like each other personally?
LE BON: We like each other.
GORANI: Is that what it is? It has to be that though. Yes.
LE BON: We're friends, we're friends. That's the most important thing. We get along with each other. We spend time -- when we're not in the
studio or not on tour together. We go out and have fun together.
RHODES: I think also that we're all aware that what we created as Duran Duran is much better than what any one of us could create as a solo artist.
We added all up.
GORANI: Is it like a marriage?
LE BON: Several of this --
RHODES: It might be, yes. A marriage to many guys.
GORANI: You still have fun?
LE BON: Of course, we still have fun. If you said to me even five years ago, well, do you think you might be playing at NASA, the Kennedy Space
Center to celebrate the 50-year anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission? I said, well, no, I don't really.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, indeed. They got the flag up now and you can see the stars and stripes --
GORANI: And you never get tired of performing the same songs?
RHODES: We don't play when we get tired. We just let rest for a while.
GORANI: Because I'm seeing a lot of here from viewers on Twitter, they're the same things, for instance, "Reflex" is one of my favorite songs.
Is there ever a time where you think, oh, I just wish people would stop asking me about it.
RHODES: When you're lucky enough to have a few songs or a few more, if you're really lucky, that people know and that make people happy, then
actually when you play them and you see a lot of people smiling at you and going nuts, that sort of makes you worthwhile playing it.
GORANI: What is your favorite? Can you pick a favorite song?
RHODES: Recently, we've been playing "Notorious," next to the song "Pressure Off" from the last album. They've got a similar sort of grove to
them.
GORANI: I like "Rio" because it reminds -- I know for some reason it's a song that I remember loving --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her name is Rio and she dances on the sand.
GORANI: -- when it came out.
LE BON: A lot of people got into that song. It was a big party favorite.
GORANI: I think part of it was the video, to be honest.
LE BON: All right, OK. Well, it was, that was quite spectacular.
[14:45:04] GORANI: Yes. I think that really helped -- it gave the song that special staying power.
LE BON: Yes, that's one prize (INAUDIBLE)
GORANI: Where will Duran Duran be 10 years' time?
RHODES: Not at NASA probably. I think --
GORANI: For the 60th.
RHODES: Yes, I don't know.
LE BON: You never know. I don't know. I mean, I want to keep going as long as I can, personally. I think we keep each other fixed and we keep
each other open minded and flexible in body and spirit. I think it's a very healthy thing for us to be in Duran Duran and be working.
GORANI: Still looking great. Thank you guys so much, really appreciate it.
RHODES: Thank you.
LE BON: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. And that concert will be next week to mark the 50th anniversary of the moon landing. It'll happen in Florida. We'll be right
back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The so-called ISIS caliphate may be defeated, but the legacy they leave is one of anguish and suffering. And the trauma faced by Yazidi
women at the hands of the terror group is simply unimaginable. Many of them are dealing with complex post-traumatic stress disorder, physical,
mental, and emotional pain that runs very deep.
And now, many of them are seeking help in Israel where the trauma caused by the holocaust offers valuable lessons in recovering from genocide. Oren
Liebermann reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They carry the weight of the past on their shoulders. Hundreds of miles from their home
in Northern Iraq, these Yazidi women have come to Israel to help rebuild their community.
When ISIS attacked the Yazidis in their homeland in 2014, thousands were massacred and thousands more enslaved.
Lamiya Aji Bashar was one of those slaves, at the time, only 15 years old.
LAMIYA AJI BASHAR, FORMER ISIS PRISONER (through translator): ISIS wanted to finish us, to kill all of us and to exterminate our identity, and they
were thinking if they rape us, we will be ashamed and we will never go out and they will destroy all of us.
LIEBERMANN: Bashar was a prisoner for more than a year and a half. One of her attempts to escape left scars on her face when another slave stepped on
a land mine. After she was finally able to flee ISIS captivity, she settled in Europe and shares what she witnessed with the world.
BASHAR: I saw in the captivity that ISIS even raped 8-year-old girls, or even the women who were married were raped in front of their children. I
decided to be their voice. And I get my strengths from the suffering of those women.
LIEBERMANN: The damage was not solely physical. Many of the emotional scars run even deeper, hidden within the anguish of complex post-traumatic
stress disorder.
The impact of such trauma has a particular resonance in Israel. The Holocaust and its effect on survivors and their descendants offer valuable
lessons to the Yazidis.
[14:50:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rates of PTSD in the red columns.
LIEBERMANN: These 16 Yazidi women were brought over by Israeli NGO, IsraAid, to study mental health treatment. There is no cure for complex
PTSD, so every treatment is crucial.
ARIE ZABAN, PRESIDENT, BAR-ILAN UNIVERSITY: When you treat, eventually you get as close as possible to curing people. I'm not sure if we can cure all
of them, or even if we can get close to this, but we can definitely make a better life for them. And what's more important for the coming generations.
LIEBERMANN: Though foreign aid has reached the Yazidis, there is a lack of mental health care. The group's study in Israel will take what they've
learned back home to help their fellow Yazidis.
Rashad (ph), one of two former ISIS slaves in this group will take the lessons to the growing Yazidi community in Europe.
We aren't identifying the other women to protect their safety once they return to Iraq. This woman is studying to be a doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Most of them, they have depression. And they are a survivor of ISIS. And they have a major depression -- chronic. And some of
them have suicidal thoughts.
LIEBERMANN: The effects of complex PTSD can pass to second and third generations, and that's what these workshops are trying to prevent, so the
future doesn't carry forward so much pain from the past.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: More to come, including Instagram tackles cyber bullying with artificial intelligence. How it hopes to get bullies to rethink mean
spirited comments before they're even posted. Can it work? How will it work? We'll have that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: All right. When it comes to social media, would be bully be convinced not to hit post? That is the aim of one of Instagram's new
features. It uses artificial intelligence to identify offensive comments.
The company owned by Facebook is rolling out other tools as well to try to limit abusive posts on Instagram and on their social media platform.
Hadas Gold is here to talk us through all of this. So how will this work?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA AND BUSINESS REPORTER: So, Hala, what's going to happen is let's say you were on my Instagram feed and you started to type a
post, you're so ugly. There'll be a little box that would pop up above your comment as you are about to post it that says, are you sure you want
to post this comment? A "learn more" icon, if you click on it, it will say, we want you to rethink this post because similar comments have been
reposted to us in the past. It's not saying you're a cyber bully, stop doing this.
This is, hey, listen, we get a lot of reports about these types of comments. I know what you're doing. And it actually gives the person the
opportunity to hit undo. You can see it on the screen right there. It gives the opportunity for the commenter to hit undo. Maybe change their
comments. And Instagram says that actually in their early test they have found and they don't give us exact numbers, but they said they have found
that it does occur some users to change their comments.
This is coming in response to a lot of criticism Instagram is getting that their platform is rife with cyberbullying, especially amongst teenagers.
This is something the governments are getting very involved in this. Well, the British government in their big online what harms paper, this white
paper that was issued in April, so that they're actually even considering new laws that would force social media companies to do more about cyber
bullying on their platforms. This is clearly an answer to some of those requests.
[14:55:08] GORANI: So they've tested with focus groups, I imagine, and they're saying that this has worked or that it works more often than if
there wasn't a tool giving people --
GOLD: Listen, Instagram is not giving us exact numbers. But they do say that an early test, it is encouraging people to, at least, change their
comments. Now, maybe they're just making them slightly less mean but still somewhat mean.
But there's other tools that Instagram rolled out as well that are supposed to help people who are victims of cyberbullying, including essentially
muting somebody, but the other person doesn't know that you have muted that because there is a fear that if you block somebody or unfollow them that
could actually lead to even more bullying, because somebody might say, oh, you can't handle my comments something like that.
The person that you blocked won't actually know that they're being blocked. They'll still actually see their comments on your posts, but you won't be
able to see their comments.
GORANI: But it's similar -- it's similar with Twitter, you can mute somebody and they don't know they've been muted.
GOLD: Exactly.
GORANI: I mean, if I look at my feed, I sometimes have 20 or 30 muted comments. That I know if I unmute them, it'll probably do something do
unpleasant, but they don't know.
GOLD: And we're seeing more and more social media platforms start to take on these tools that give users more control over what they see and don't
see as part of an effort to not only protect them and keep users on their platforms, because they're afraid people will be scared off, but also
because they see these government regulators staring on their backs.
GORANI: Thank you very much, Hadas.
And have you seen the video of the dancing cockatoo?
GOLD: I have not, but I'm very excited to see it, because I've heard a lot about it.
GORANI: So do I. I actually didn't want to see it before the show, because I want to be surprised.
This is a viral video that's turning into, in fact, Hadas, an important scientific study. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Snowball, Hadas. Snowball, the cockatoo, has been a dancing sensation on YouTube for more than a decade. Scientists reported him
rocking out to his favorite songs like Queens, "Another one Bites the Dust." And they've figured out -- because this is fascinating -- they
figured out he has 14 unique dance moves that he makes in response to different beats in the songs. In a paper published by a current biologist
says this proves parrots have the cognitive ability to appreciate different types of music.
GOLD: Well, he's a better dancer than I am.
GORANI: Me too. I think he's a better -- can he dance to Duran Duran? My producer had asked me. I'm sure he could dance to anything.
Thanks very much, Hadas Gold, and thanks to all of you for watching. I'm Hala Gorani, I'll see you next time. Stay with us though. After the
break, it's "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
