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Hala Gorani Tonight
Few Republicans Condemn Trump's Racist Remarks Against Congresswomen; Trump-Ordered ICE Raids Took Place Over Weekend; Stock Market Falls As China Announces Slowing Growth; Trump Digs In Amid Uproar Over Racist Tweets; Trump Administration Moves To Limit Asylum Claims; Fear And Lack Of Trust Driving Outbreak In Congo; Amazon Shopping Holiday Filled With Deals And Protests; Plans Moving Ahead To Reconstruct Notre Dame. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired July 15, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:16] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello. I'm Bianca Nobilo. Let's get right to our breaking news. Donald Trump has just thrown fuel on a
firestorm of controversy over his racist tweets about four Democratic women of color. Not only is the U.S. president attacking the congresswomen
again, but he's also attacking the very ideals of American democracy.
Mr. Trump just accused the lawmakers, all vocal critics of his government, of hating the United States because, quote, "All they do is complain." He
said he's not concerned if people think his tweet was racist. It urges the congresswomen -- all American citizens, three of them born in the United
States -- to go back to the, quote, "broken and crime-infested countries they came from."
Here's how he put it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you're not happy here, then you can leave. As far as I'm concerned, if you hate our country, if
you're not happy here, you can leave. And that's what I say all the time. That's what I said in a tweet, which I guess some people think is
controversial. A lot of people love it, by the way. A lot of people love it.
But if you're not happy in the U.S., if you're complaining all the time, very simply, you can leave. You can leave right now. Come back if you
want, don't come back. It's OK too. But if you're not happy, you can leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: A handful of Trump's fellow Republicans have criticized his attack on their colleagues. But so far, most of them are remaining silent.
Let's bring in CNN White House Reporter, Sarah Westwood. We're also joined by Suzanne Malveaux, who's following reaction on Capitol Hill.
Sarah, let's start with you. It was startling, seeing what the president had to say today. He doubled down. tell us what were the top lines for
you?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Bianca, sources tell CNN that it was President Trump's decision to go out and address these
controversial tweets at an event that was supposed to be showcasing American manufacturing.
But the president, essentially doubling down on those racist attacks on the four freshman House Democrats, accusing them of hating America,
mischaracterizing some past statements -- particularly from Congresswoman Ilhan Omar, falsely claiming, for instance, that she's praised terrorist
groups -- to make the argument that, again, as he did in his tweets, if they don't like America, they can leave.
TEXT: Trump Posts Racist Tweets, says progressive Dems should "go back" to the countries they came from: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York, born in
New York; Rashida Tlaib, Michigan, born in Detroit; Ilhan Omar, Minnesota, born in Mogadishu, Somalia; Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts, born in
Cincinnati
WESTWOOD: Now, this comes after the chief of staff for Vice President Mike Pence, earlier today, tried to argue that the president was only referring
to Congresswoman Omar, and specifically to statements that Omar has made in the past that critics have characterized as anti-Semitic.
But President Trump sort of shattered that argument from one of his own senior staffers by also going after Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
from New York for actions she took toward Amazon headquarters, which also had nothing to do with her patriotism.
The president, sparking a backlash among some Republicans but, again, many on Capitol Hill, staying silent as the president doubles down on those
racist attacks despite the wave of criticism -- Bianca.
NOBILO: Let's go to Capitol Hill now, then, with Suzanne.
Suzanne, as Sarah was just saying, the response has been predominantly silence. There have been one or two Republicans -- the senator from
Pennsylvania and some others -- who have criticized what President Trump said. Talk to us about the mood in Capitol Hill, and what's the
perspective on those Republicans and their reaction to this?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Sure, Bianca. I mean, it has been very tense here on Capitol Hill, we have basically been canvassing
many of the hallways, looking for members of Congress as well as their Twitter feeds, to see how they are responding. Tremendous amount of
support from the Democrats, of course, but very little from the Republicans. Radio silence, just a handful of them weighing on this, this
morning.
I had a chance to catch up with Congressman Will Hurd. He represents Texas' 23rd District. It is on the southern border. He is, from time to
time, been a critic of the president regarding immigration as well as the child separation policy.
He is also the only African-American in the House who is a Republican. And so he has a very unique role in the discussion, in the debate over this.
He, without question, came out very strong against the president's comments, against his tweets. Here's what he's told me earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. WILL HURD (R-TX): The tweets are racist and xenophobic. They're also inaccurate because the four women he's referring to are folks that have
grown -- they are U.S. citizens. It's behavior that's unbecoming of a president of the United States and the leader of the free world. We should
be talking about uniting people, not dividing us.
[14:05:00] And ultimately, politically, it's hurtful. You are having a civil war going on within the Democratic Party, and now they've all
encircled the wagons and are protecting one another, right? So that's my thoughts. And unfortunately for someone like me who's the only black
Republican in the House of Representatives, this makes it even harder when I go into communities that most Republicans don't show up to. This makes
it harder in order to bring our message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, Bianca, there were two things that I asked, follow-up questions to the congressman. First of all, whether or not he expects or
hopes that his colleagues, Republican colleagues, will speak out about this. He said that he hopes they certainly will, that he expects that they
will. But so far, just a handful of people who have acknowledged and said that this is wrong.
I also asked him if he thought there was additional -- some sort of punishment that could come to the president, or some way that they could
express their displeasure here. He did not believe that that was necessary. He said he believed that the president can tweet anything that
he wants, but that it does have long-term consequences in terms of the long-term hurt he addressed (ph).
Speaker Pelosi, however, said that they will be introducing a resolution on the House floor, and that she certainly hopes that the Republicans join the
Democrats in condemning the president's remarks.
And, Bianca, I have to tell you, the Democrats feel very unified over this. They feel that this is a rallying cry. Whereas last week there was some
tension, even some conflict between the House speaker, Pelosi, and these four freshman congresswomen. Now they are all on the same page -- Bianca.
NOBILO: Suzanne Malveaux on Capitol Hill and Sarah Westwood at the White House, thank you both.
Meanwhile, President Trump says planned raids to round up as many undocumented immigrants as possible got off to a great start on Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The ICE raids were very successful. People came into our country illegally, illegally. Many were felons, many were convicted of crimes.
Many, many were taken out on Sunday. You just didn't know about it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many?
TRUMP: -- in fact, I went to -- I spoke to the head of ICE. I spoke to a couple of people. We had many people. It was a very successful day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Agents were to target some 2,000 immigrants under deportation orders in nine cities. But activists say, for the most part, it's been
quiet. "The New York Times" reports agents opted for a series of smaller- scale arrests over the weekend. The paper says media coverage sent many immigrants into hiding.
For the latest, let's bring in CNN's Polo Sandoval. He joins us from New York.
Polo, you spent yesterday in (ph) amongst (ph) some of New York's most vibrant migrant communities. What was the mood there?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there certainly is this fear, Bianca, right? Among many migrants. For example, we spent some time there
in Queens, which is one of the most culturally diverse places on the planet here, speaking to not just migrants, but also some of those who support
those migrants.
They say that they have seen very little to no sign of these kinds of operations. So it's interesting, what we hear from the White House --
President Trump, today, calling these operations successful -- when just a little while ago, we heard from the New York City Mayor's Office of
Immigrants Rights, saying that they have no confirmed reports of any ICE encounters.
It doesn't necessarily mean that they did not happen, of course. Oftentimes, they may not necessarily coordinate -- federal authorities may
not necessarily coordinate with local and state authorities. But from what we have heard from some of those here in the city of New York, there have
been no obvious raids, no obvious operations here.
And then when you hear from some of those legal aid assistant centers, they say that a bulk of their phone calls have been more people wanting to know
their rights, wanting to really understand what they can and can't do, should ICE come knocking on their door.
So it's really more those calls, versus people who need immediate legal representation because federal agents are potentially going to deport them
at any moment. So that's really what we're seeing, not just here in New York City but in many communities across the country as well.
NOBILO: Polo, I referenced in the introduction, the fact that "The New York Times" is reporting that some of these raids have been scaled back.
What do we know about the reasons why that would have happened?
SANDOVAL: Well, we know that the administration has said that one of the main reasons for that was because that -- some information had leaked to
the general public, that obviously there would be a concern for officer safety.
But let's keep in mind, Bianca, that some of the first public reports of these kinds of operations came straight from the commander in chief when he
tweeted to his 62 million followers on social media, that these mass deportations would be happening. That was last month. Fast-forward to
today. Now, we're still trying to get a better understanding of the scope of these so-called ICE round-ups here.
I'll tell you what we should be looking out for, though, in the next couple of days, the next couple of months, really -- or weeks, perhaps. Is
exactly who are the people that are listed in those statistics, right? The president today said that these operations were successful, that there were
many people who were contacted by federal officers.
[14:10:02] But now, the main question, were those people -- those criminal undocumented immigrants, those people who have committed felonies, perhaps,
that have been prioritized by not just this administration but previous ones, or are they actual family units? Which would indicate that
Immigration and Customs Enforcement essentially broadening their scope under the president's direction.
So that's something we're going to have to see, moving forward. Again, perhaps the next few days, perhaps the next few weeks, when ICE releases
some of their stats.
NOBILO: We know you'll keep an eye on it for us. Polo Sandoval in New York, thank you.
SANDOVAL: Thanks, Bianca.
NOBILO: For more on the Trump administration's policy on undocumented immigrants and the uproar over the president's tweets, let's bring in
political analyst Anushay Hossain, as well as CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Doug Heye.
Thank you both for being with us.
Anushay, let's start with you. The reaction from the Republican Party has obviously been muted. There's been silence, there's been a few who have
come out to condemn the president's remarks. Who is he directing these remarks at and why are they resonating?
ANUSHAY HOSSAIN, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, they're resonating because Trump isn't the president of every single American or all of America. He's the
president of his base. And Trump is deploying an old, you know, playground tactic. "Go back to your country," is something that he says to strong
women of color who oppose him.
And this isn't new news. This is a pattern. This is a -- being racist is a part of the Trump presidency brand, and it's something that is the
feature and not a bug of this Trump administration.
NOBILO: You mentioned -- you mentioned, there, the exact phrasing, the "Go back where you came from." And it's difficult to sort of conceptualize how
that resonates with certain people.
I was talking to my team today -- I'm not born in this country -- and because I look a certain way and sound a certain way, I would never be told
to go back home. So that brings us back to the inescapable racial and ethnocultural element to this.
HOSSAIN: Exactly, exactly.
NOBILO: How do you think most Americans would react to that?
HOSSAIN: Well, it -- first of all, the discussion of whether this or not is racist, is not what the discussion should be. It should be, "Are we
going to continue tolerating it?" Because Donald Trump, to his credit, has -- this is the way he's -- this has been a part of his strategy of his
presidency since before he became president. Let's not forget that he entered the political arena with a massive racist strategy, which was
questioning where Barack Obama, the first black president in America, was born.
And also, it's important to remember that saying things like, "If you don't like how immigrants are being treated here, go back to where you come
from," has huge racial implications, but also it suggests that America is only meant for white Americans, not anybody else, people of color.
NOBILO: Doug, let's go to you next. It seems that as long as the president's popularity amongst his base remains fairly stable, that this
pattern is likely to continue, the fact that he is happy to wade into issues that are often avoided by other politicians. Do you agree?
DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, absolutely. And his base -- the base support that he has isn't just broad, it's very intense. So
members of Congress, Republican members, when they're back in their states and their districts, they don't just hear their voters saying that they
approve of Donald Trump, they hear it loudly and they hear it often, everywhere they go.
I was talking to a member of Congress last week, who told me they were accosted three times as a supermarket while they were grocery-shopping with
their wife, for not supporting the president enough. And this is somebody who's a supporter of the president.
So this is what they hear all the time. So unfortunately, politically, there's not much motivation for them to speak out. You're hearing a few --
Will Hurd, the only African-American Republican member of Congress, was one of the first people to speak up. You'll hear more. But it won't be broad
because the party is in fear of what happens to people who cross Donald Trump.
NOBILO: And speaking of somebody who did not condemn the president today, Lindsey Graham. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We all know that AOC and this crowd are a bunch of communists, they hate Israel, they hate our own country, they're
calling the guards along our border, the Border Patrol agents, "concentration camp guards." They accuse people who support Israel of
doing it "for the Benjamins." They're anti-Semitic, they're anti-America. Don't get to (ph) aim higher? We don't need to know anything about them
personally. Talk about their policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Doug, do you think that in the lead-up to 2020, especially with the Democratic race, you're seeing candidates trying to one-up each other
in terms of their policy. Do you think that that is -- do you think that's helping the president in a sense, is their moving further and further to
left in some of these debates?
HEYE: Sure. If you talk to folks who are working at the Republican National Committee or the Trump campaign, they would tell you that those
two debates that they -- that the Democrats recently had, were great for the Trump administration, were great for the re-election effort.
[14:15:09] When every member of Congress is raising their hands on things that are very divisive issues or calling for private health care insurance
to be eliminated, that's what Donald Trump wants to be talking about. And it sets up the comparison that would be very favorable for him. He has a
very tough re-elect. It's a very narrow path. But what I saw at the previous two debates, makes that path easier for him.
NOBILO: Anushay, it seems that because politicians, whether in the United Kingdom, where I am, or in the United States, discussing the issue of
migration and how to best handle it, is sensitive. And it can be uncomfortable for a lot of politicians in the center, so they do tend to
avoid it.
Now, of course, that presents lots of fertile ground for President Trump and some of his allies, to capitalize on that. Do you think that's an
issue, the fact that there isn't much reasoned moderate evidence-based debate when it comes to migration because it isn't a topic that politicians
feel that they can wade into without inflaming passions on both sides?
HOSSAIN: I think that's giving them way too much credit. And, you know, the Lindsey Graham segment that we just saw, I mean, he probably got his
talking points straight from the president's mouth.
Things are so polarized here now, Bianca. They're more polarized than they've ever been in America, and especially over issues such as
immigration and race. So I think it's really important to remember that we can't see these as just isolated incidents, we have to see them in the
large political strategy of the Trump presidency.
And now, naturally, an extension of his re-election strategy. We have to see this, the attack on these women of color, U.S. lawmakers, U.S.
congresswomen, OK? Who were born in America, I think, all except for Ilhan Omar, who became, you know, a citizen here when she was 17.
We have to see this, coupled with the raids on immigration communities, with the children in cages, with the women and children who are dying in
U.S. detention centers, with the men who were rounded up, not being allowed to shower. I mean, it goes on and on. Children in the same diapers for
months.
I mean, this is a larger part and strategy to dehumanize people of color and immigrants. And you know what, Donald Trump has to count on his base
to show up at the voting polls. That is a key part of him coming back and returning to staying in the White House. And so he's flaming the fans of
the race card, starting from now. Because he knows that's what he has to rely on.
NOBILO: It's a very important point on the context there, that this is all developing in. Thank you both, Anushay Hossain and Doug Heye. Appreciate
it. Thank you.
HEYE: Thank you.
NOBILO: Still to come tonight, it was the stuff of dreams for sports fans. We'll discuss a day of sport here in London that had millions on the edge
of their seats as two colossal finals made history.
It's the world's second-largest economy and its growth has slowed to its lowest level since the early '90s. We'll examine what China's latest GDP
figures mean for the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:18] NOBILO: Welcome back. Sometimes, we need a break from stories of tragedy, conflict and political turmoil, which so often dominate the
news agenda. And you can sometimes rely on sport to provide that very relief.
Sunday saw a day of sport that defied the expectations of even the most ardent fans. And London was certainly the place to be on Sunday, playing
host to two record-breaking finals playing out simultaneously.
While Roger Federer and Novak Djokovic, two of the greatest tennis players ever to play, battled it out in the longest Wimbledon singles final in
history, across the city, England and New Zealand's cricketers produced a once-in-a-lifetime Cricket World Cup Final. The England won by the
narrowest of margins.
It's all anyone can talk about today, and our team is covering both incredible stories from here in London. Christina MacFarlane is at the
most famous club in tennis where that epic final took place. But first, Alex Thomas is at The Oval cricket ground, where England have been
celebrating that hard-to-believe victory.
ALEX THOMAS, CNN WORLD SPORTS: Well, Bianca, they used to say cricket's boring. Not on Sunday, when England and New Zealand produced such a
spectacular game of cricket, it's been called the greatest match of all time.
And in fact, one British broadcaster said it attracted more website traffic then even the last general election in this country. So no wonder the
victorious England cricket team have been invited to 10 Downing Street to meet the British prime minister. That hasn't happened since their Ashes
success over Australia back in 2005.
Whereas New Zealand, the losers, also had their prime minister, Jacinda Ardern, chip in, joking that it was a traumatic event for the country after
a real nail-biter left England as men's Cricket World Cup winners for the first time in their history, 44 years after this event started.
That happened at Lord's across London. We're here at The Oval, where 6.5 weeks ago, England started their campaign by beating South Africa. And
earlier on Monday, a day after their victory over New Zealand, they had friends and family and hundreds of school kids here, cheering them on and
joining in the celebrations as they paraded the World Cup trophy around.
It was an extraordinary sporting Sunday because while that finale was happening at Lord's in northwest London, across town, something equally
extraordinary was also taking place.
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN WORLD SPORT: At the very point the Cricket World Cup was reaching its climax, so, too, was the men's final here at
Wimbledon. After four hours and 57 minutes -- the longest men's final in history -- one mishit from Federer at 12-12, deep into the tiebreak fifth
set, not only sealed the match for Novak Djokovic, but could also become a defining moment for the future of men's tennis.
With this fifth win at the All England Club and his 16th Grand Slam overall, Djokovic now moves within four slams of Roger Federer's Grand Slam
record, for the first time with Rafael Nadal sandwiched right in the middle on 18.
Federer may have missed his chance to become the oldest Grand Slam champion on Sunday, but he proved that at almost 38 years of age, he is still able
to compete for the biggest titles in the game. And with just six weeks to go until the U.S. Open, we could well see these two rivals face off again
in New York, where Djokovic will be the favorite to seal his third major title this year. Back to you, Bianca.
NOBILO: Thanks to Christina and Alex there.
So cricket fans here in England definitely have a lot of celebrating to do -- unless you were born in New Zealand, like me -- including one of their
biggest fans, Theresa May.
The prime minister may be out of a job in just a couple of weeks, but she isn't letting that stop her from enjoying the victory. She busted out
these now-famous dance moves on Sunday night.
And in just the last few minutes, Mrs. May welcomed the cricket team to Downing Street for a victory party. Earlier, she said the World Cup win
will live forever in our sporting history.
Now, let's get a check on Wall Street this hour. Here's how the Dow is tracking, slightly lower in afternoon trading. This after China announced
its economic growth slumped to its lowest level in almost three decades. Growth of 6.2 percent, the world's second-largest economy apparently
feeling the effects of the trade war with the United States.
CNN's Business Editor-at-Large and anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," Richard Quest, is here in London and he joins us live now to break this
story down for us.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR AT LARGE: Right.
NOBILO: So, Richard, what are the main reasons that we're seeing this slowdown in growth?
QUEST: Do you know, we know that the Chinese economy has problems. Debt, slowdowns, left, right and center. So a poor situation has been made much
worse by the trade battle with the United States, which is why Donald Trump tweeted -- or wasted no time, basically saying, "I'm winning and I'm
causing them pain and they should do a deal that they don't want to do."
[14:25:19] But I think that's telling only half the story. Because China, if you look underneath the headline numbers, you do see room for some
optimism. There's a lot more consumption in China. It's not all based on government growth. It's not all based on exports. People are starting to
build. The Chinese are building a middle class, unfortunately just too slowly.
NOBILO: And can we trust the data? Because there's always --
QUEST: Oh, no (ph). Oh, no (ph).
NOBILO: -- question marks over that.
QUEST: No, absolutely not.
NOBILO: So is it likely to be much worse than this?
QUEST: Yes, yes, is the short answer. I mean, they say 6.2 percent. Well, bearing in mind President Xi gave a range of 6.1 to 6.8, and he's
just come in at the end of the range on the lower end, I mean, is it 5.9, 5.5? I don't think it's anything disastrously lower, or you would have
certainly seen that elsewhere in the Chinese numbers. But I would not take this number to the bank and put it on the 3-30 (ph) at Newmarket.
NOBILO: Is this going to have any impact on how China continues to conduct these trade negotiations with the U.S.? Because they have the luxury of
looking far longer-term (INAUDIBLE) the U.S.
QUEST: That's the -- well -- who, the Chinese?
NOBILO: Yes.
QUEST: Yes. And the question, of course, is how much pain will they suffer and how -- unlike -- I mean, the harsh reality is, unlike President
Trump, that faces an electorate --
NOBILO: Exactly.
QUEST: -- next year, President Xi, as best I can tell, is not about to face the voters. What he is, though, going to have to do is keep regional
governors happy and a rural angry (ph) elite (ph) happy as well. If he can't do that, then he will have to sue (ph) for peace in terms of a trade
deal. But at the moment, it seems like he can contain it and he's able to say to President Trump, "Fine."
NOBILO: At the moment, will we see any ripple effects from this around the world?
QUEST: Inevitably. If China's slowing down, all those economies in Southeast Asia that rely on -- Australia, for example, which buys -- China
buys raw materials, iron ore and the like, that's going to have an effect. ASEAN countries will have an effect. If China's slowing down, it will not
be buying things from other countries.
Let's remember, China is now an important part of the global economy. Not as important as the U.S. by any means, but it is a significant cog in the
wheel, and that cog now has sand in it.
NOBILO: And what can the Chinese government do to try and lubricate the cog?
QUEST: Right. Stimulus. That's what you do. You try and do some stimulus. Well, they did in the beginning of the quarter. And you can
change the reserve ratios, which is exactly what they're going to try and do again.
But they can't do too much of that because they have a banking crisis on their doors. They have a lending crisis. They've got a bad debt crisis.
So whilst they can certainly have room for maneuverability, the levers that they can pull are by no means as sophisticated or well-oiled -- to use your
analogy -- as it would be, for example, in the United States with monetary policy.
NOBILO: Will you be talking about this more on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS"?
QUEST: Well, we thought we might ignore it for the whole program. Yes.
NOBILO: -- whether or not that's true.
QUEST: Yes.
NOBILO: Tune in for "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" in half an hour.
[14:28:20] Still to come tonight, more on Donald Trump's racist tweets. Is the outrage and anger just what the president wanted all along?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:55] NOBILO: Welcome back. Returning to our top story, the fallout over Donald Trump's racist tweets and his refusal to back down even one
inch from his controversial comments. Rather than continue to rehash the back and forth over what the president said and the reaction to it, we've
already done that, we want to take a look at a different angle.
Is the media frenzy, over all of this, exactly what Donald Trump wants? Is it all the talk about the president's tweets distracting our attention from
other more substantive issues?
Joining me now is CNN's chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter, the host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES." Brian, do you think that's what the
president's trying to achieve here? Does he realize that his rhetoric is inflammatory, that it's going to cause all of this debate and are we just
falling right into the trap?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, this would be the 3D chess theory that many political analysts like to subscribe to the idea
that the president is calculated in his day-to-day maneuvers, in his tweet storms, that it's all designed to dominate the media economy, to maximize
attention onto him and that all press is good press.
I generally do not subscribe to that theory, Bianca. I look at this and I think the president just reacts every day, every minute, to whatever he
sees, whatever he reads, whatever he's angry about, he reacts impulsively, and then tries to spin it in a way that's advantageous.
So he may look around now and look for political advantages as a result of his angry tweet storm, his racist tweets yesterday. I generally think
these are usually not calculated. But that is the grand debate in Washington and in New York and all across the U.S. these days, it has been
for two years, how calculated are these rants?
Often times, I think these rants end up undermining the president and certainly hurting the United States on the world stage, so there's not 3D
chess going on.
But to the extent that he does distract from, let's say, conditions at the border and other scandals and controversies like that, then it can, in some
cases, be a win for him. I think the press, however, has learned to walk and chew many pieces of gum at the same time, you know.
NOBILO: Yes. And, Brian, we had -- have a quote here from the L.A. Times saying, we shouldn't rise to his bait, but how can we not? If we ignore
him --
STELTER: Right.
NOBILO: We normalize his reckless behavior, and that's even worse. So, Brian, my final question --
STELTER: This is exactly the issue, yes.
NOBILO: Exactly. So, it does put the media in a difficult position. We're always walking this tightrope. We don't want to wade willy-nilly
into issues that are -- that have moral dimensions. But when there is a clear line crossed, what do you think the moral imperative is for the
press?
STELTER: Right. I think the L.A. Times gets it exactly right. If we are to ignore what he's doing, that contributes to, you know, then that's a
problem. If we cover it extensively, that's also a challenge. If every single day, it's raining BS from the sky and we start covering the rain,
because we get used to the smell, we get used to the stench, then we are part of the problem.
The press has to continually point out that Trump is not living up to American values, is not acting presidential on the world stage. It's a
daily story for us in the American media and in the international media, even though it can seem repetitive, and even though we end up talking a lot
about Trump.
He is bringing up basic issues about American values and morality. Today, he's talking about what it means to be American, saying to somebody's
congresswoman hate America. To him I would say to him what Edward R. Murrow said during the McCarthy scare, he said, we must not confuse dissent
with disloyalty. Those words ring really true today.
NOBILO: Let's leave it there. Thanks, Brian Stelter. Really appreciate it.
STELTER: Thank you.
NOBILO: We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. I like it.
Well, we've covered a lot about what President Trump has said. Now, we want to examine what he's actually trying to do. The Trump administration
filed documents that could dramatically limit the ability of migrants to apply for asylum in the U.S.
Nick Paton Walsh joins us now live from Mexico City. Nick, we have been focusing on the president's rhetoric. There's been more of it in the last
couple of hours. But tell us more from the perspective of the people where you are about how these new policy ideas are going to affect migrants.
[14:35:06] NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're going to affect tomorrow. So this is action immediate, possibly,
which will have an impact, obviously, on the hundreds of thousands, and thousands, certainly, of people who have tried to leave Central America and
head north through Mexico, where I'm standing, up into the United States.
This will be published tomorrow in the Federal Register. A change to the rules, which basically says, if you're trying to get into the United States
and claim asylum, well, you can't do that if you're from Central America, because you've transited through Mexico and really in their belief, you
probably should have applied for asylum in Mexico instead.
They believe, this is legal, the Department of Justice, it will face legal challenges, certainly. But what it really means in practical terms is the
Trump administration has got Mexico and to some degree Guatemala as well to put up as many practical challenges as they can for the path of migrants
from Central America, where a combination of climate change, massive corruption, and violence leaves many people looking for a better life,
well, frankly leaving out of desperation further north.
They've done all they can to practically slow them down by putting the Mexican National Guard down on the Guatemalan border and slowing the rate
at which they listen to asylum cases certainly on border posts as well.
What this does, this legal change does, if it holds, is essentially say, the trip is pointless. Because once you get to the United States, we
simply won't hear your asylum claim, because, frankly, they believe you've transited through a country where you could have claimed asylum instead.
So there will be legal challenges, as I say, but essentially, this is about trying to use the Department of Justice's interpretation of U.S. law to
basically mean that people trying to get to the U.S. from Central America are wasting their journey, Bianca.
BIANCA: And, Nick, is there a reason to believe that that will be a very effective deterrent?
PATON WALSH: Well, what's extraordinary is you've seen the lengths people will go to get to a better life, to get to in their mind safety in the
United States. Now, you may possibly see people trying to use sea routes to go from Central America around Mexico and into the U.S. coast. Would
that possibly mean this rule doesn't apply to them?
We know the desperate lengths people will go to. There have been reports of terrible instances in the past week or so, in which people trying to
cross from Guatemala to Mexico, went onwards having the fact had to use drug cartels to facilitate that passage and being double crossed, a father
found with his throat slit.
It's clear people will take, basically, any measures they need to, to try and get their families to a better life in the United States. And these
increased number of instructions put up, human rights activists and advocates say simply push people into more desperate, dangerous measures.
That's really the fear many have from this kind of rule, rather than it will suddenly stop people's need to get out of Central America where they
face many deep economic and physical perils, too, simply by erecting another legal barrier. Bianca?
NOBILO: Nick Paton Walsh in Mexico City for us. Thank you.
Now, to New York, where federal prosecutors have laid out the reasons why multi-millionaire and accused sex trafficker, Jeffrey Epstein, should be
detained before his trial. Prosecutors say Epstein kept a safe locked in his Manhattan home that contained a foreign passport. The passport was
issued in the 1980s and it appeared to have Epstein's photo inside next to a fake name. It also listed his residence as Saudi Arabia.
Prosecutors say this expired foreign passport and Epstein's wealth make him a flight risk. The judge said he will decide on Thursday whether or not
Epstein is released on bail.
Now, the United Nations is desperately asking for more money to tackle Ebola, as the virus has now spread to a major city on the border of Congo
and Rwanda. The U.N. says a big scale up is needed to properly respond to the outbreak. The city of Goma reported its first case Sunday.
Goma is a major transit hub and home to more than a million people. Health experts are working around the clock to prevent the virus from spreading
any further. This is the world's second largest outbreak. It began in August and has killed almost 1,700 people in Congo.
One young man who survived Ebola spoke to CNN. He tells our David McKenzie the fear around the virus is making the outbreak so much worse. But there
is hope that a new treatment center will finally break the cycle of mistrust.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Ebola latched on to Roger's Wasakundi's (ph) family, denial came with it.
"My sister got it first," he says. "We didn't want to believe it was Ebola. She stayed at home and we buried her."
Through the intimacy of family, the virus spread to his aunt, to his mother, father, to him. It took days to persuade them to seek treatment at
a center like this, where doctors told Roger that his father and aunt had died. So when they told me I had Ebola, he says, "I thought I would die,
too."
[14:40:08] In medical terms, stopping the spread of Ebola should be simple. Identify patients quickly, isolate them, trace their contacts. But halting
this outbreak has been anything but.
The epicenter is anchored in a conflict zone, where authority often comes through violence, which breeds fear. "This fear makes it difficult to stop
the chain of transmission," says Sylvester Zhongwe (ph). What we needed was to break that fear.
Zhongwe, a health worker for French medical NGO, ALIMA, says that in the city of Butembo, they wouldn't let outsiders in. "When responders came to
take the sick from their homes, he says, they didn't know who they were. They believed they would take them over there to die. That's what created
resistance."
Earlier this year, unknown assailants burnt down two treatment centers. All told, there have been more than 130 attacks on health outposts.
ALIMA's solution, integrate an Ebola reception center in something people already knew, an existing clinic.
MCKENZIE (on-camera): So we're at a center where they receive patients who could have Ebola. But what's incredible about this, it's right inside a
hospital. They negotiate with the community, they're hiring youth from the community, and this could be one of the answers.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): But it's still the only center of its kind. Many victims still die in their homes, refusing to seek treatment. And
survivors return to a fearful community.
"Many people don't believe Ebola even exists," says Roger. "If people can accept this crisis, then we can end it."
David McKenzie, CNN, Butembo DRC.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOBILO: E.U. foreign ministers held crisis talks on the Iran nuclear deal today and said they aren't ready to trigger an official dispute mechanism
just yet. The ministers decided to give diplomacy another chance. Even as Britain warns the small window to save the deal is closing.
Iran says it won't resume full compliance until Europe honors its commitments to shielding Tehran from U.S. sanctions. The E.U. foreign
policy chief says Iran's breaches of the deal, so far, are not considered significant.
Still to come on the program tonight, Amazon Prime Day. There's a lot more than just some bargains going on here. A look at what protesters say
Amazon is doing wrong. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOBILO: This is one of the biggest shopping days of the year, with bunches of fabulous sales and deals. But if you go to your local store, you won't
see any of that, because the shopping and the sales only exist online.
[14:45:00] Amazon's Prime Day has turned into a multi-billion-dollar global event. And it has also turned into a time for protesters to show their
disgust with some of Amazon's policies.
With more on this, let's bring in CNN Business Correspondent, Clare Sebastian, in New York. So, Clare, it's not just a day for big deals, but
it's also a day for protests. Talk us through those. What is it that people object to the most?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Bianca, we've seen protests on Prime Day before, but this year, it's starting to look even
bigger. This is really starting to look like some kind of Amazon-specific May Day. A lot of different groups are out, a lot of different grievances,
everything from workers' rights to conditions, and the fulfillment centers to Amazon's alleged involvement with the immigration and customs
enforcement. Even climate change.
We're seeing for the first time in the U.S. workers are about to walk off the job, that's starting at the top of the next hour. And we're seeing
globally as well, in Germany, 2,000 fulfillment center workers have walked off the job. More were expected to join today. There are protests over
where you are over in the U.K.
And look, this is still expected to be a record-breaking Prime Day for Amazon. It's not like these protests are expected to disrupt the sheer
number of purchasing dollars that are going to be spent online. But this was not the kind of marketing the company was looking for.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): When it came to marketing, this year's Prime Day, Amazon did not shop around for the cheapest options.
TAYLOR SWIFT, AMERICAN SINGER: I want to say thank you so much to Amazon for having us all.
SEBASTIAN: Taylor Swift headlining the live streamed Prime Day concert, celebrities like Will Smith and Mark Wahlberg appearing in ads.
MARK WAHLBERG, AMERICAN ACTOR: You don't need to go shopping anymore, you just go to Amazon Prime.
SEBASTIAN: Does the day work as an event?
CEM SIBAY, VICE PRESIDENT, AMAZON PRIME: Absolutely, absolutely. That's why we keep growing it.
SEBASTIAN: Prime Day is now five years old and has grown to a full 48 hours. The deals are exclusive to Prime members, of which there are
already more than 100 million across 18 countries.
SCOTT GALLOWAY, MARKETING PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: More people are now in a monogamous relationship, if you will, with Amazon vis-a-vis prime
than voted in the 2016 election or attend church.
SEBASTIAN: Prime Day is now Amazon's biggest sales event of the year, bigger than Black Friday or Cyber Monday. But this year, it's not just
about the many, many items getting shipped out of centers like this, the company is facing backlash on a number of fronts from its treatment of
workers to concerns it's simply gotten too big.
Give me a sense of how you view that the regulations questions around the company at the moment?
SIBAY: I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
SEBASTIAN: One thing they are thinking about, this Prime Day brings the first-ever walkout at a U.S. Fulfillment Center. This group of workers in
Minnesota, which has protested in the past that employees have set unrealistic targets, leading to stress and injury.
SIBAY: We have a lot of redundancy in place. We have over 175 fulfillment centers globally to make sure that Prime member experiences are not
disrupted during this event, as well. But we take, you know, concerns of our employees, obviously, very, very seriously, as well. But I'm really
actually proud of the working conditions in our fulfillment centers.
SEBASTIAN: So why do these concerns keep coming up?
SIBAY: Most of these are from outside conditions. It's obviously a very hot work environment as well.
SEBASTIAN: And the backlash is also coming from the competition, even as they launch their own sales to rival Prime Day. Target is advertising
summer deal days, emphasizing no membership required. And eBay has gone a step further with a tongue and cheek ad featuring a teenager called --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alexa?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
SEBASTIAN: Even calling their event a crush sale, promising extra deals if Amazon's website crashes, as happened in 2018.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They mostly have deals on a bunch of random stuff nobody really wants.
BRADFORD SHELLHAMMER, VICE PRESIDENT, EBAY: Unlike some of the other competitors, this time of year, the sales and deals that we are feature are
not products that are sitting on our warehouses that are collecting dust that we have to liquidate.
SEBASTIAN: In an e-commerce market where one company controls almost half of all sales, Amazon's annual shopping festival has made it a pretty big
target.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOBILO: Clare, you were just saying that by the conveyor belt, you were remarking about Amazon's size. The fact that it is so big. Tech companies
are in the spotlight at the moment for that very reason. At what point do you think Amazon's giant size will start to work against it, if any?
SEBASTIAN: Well, I think it's certainly telling, Bianca, that on the second day of Prime Day, which is tomorrow, Tuesday, Amazon's general
counsel will be testifying on Capitol Hill to the House Judiciary Committee, a hearing entitled, online platforms and market power. We are
seeing the drumbeat when it comes to potential regulation of this company growing louder.
We know that last month that the U.S. agencies kind of divvied up control of the big tech companies, Amazon reportedly falling under the federal
trade commission. That raised the specter of more regulation. The stock has proved really sensitive to this. We know the company employs a lot of
lobbyists in Washington.
We know that that rumored to be one of the reasons behind choosing Arlington, Virginia, just across the river from Capitol Hill, as the site
for their second headquarters. So the company is acutely aware of this, but the drumbeat is growing a lot louder. We're seeing a lot of political
pressure when it comes to this.
[14:50:05] NOBILO: Clare Sebastian in New York, thank you.
Now, to a long-overdue recognition for a man who was persecuted in life, but celebrated in death. The Bank of England has unveiled its new 50-pound
note, with mathematician Alan Turing on the bill. Turing was instrumental in cracking German codes during World War II, inventing a device that many
consider the precursor of the modern computer.
Despite his great contributions to science, Turing was ostracized for being homosexual and took his own life in 1954. Today, the Bank of England
described him as a giant who was the father of computer science and artificial intelligence.
More to come tonight, including months after a devastating fire, there's still anxiety about the future of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. We'll
take a rare look inside the restoration of this beloved landmark.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOBILO: Welcome back. An unusual-looking pyramid is now open for visitors in Egypt. The bent pyramid is a 4,600-year-old structure. You can see
here, how it got its name from those inclines. The pyramid had been closed for repair since 1965. Archaeologists found hidden tombs as well as
mummies and mosques during a nearby excavations that began last year.
Repairing Notre Dame Cathedral is a painstaking process. Just three months after fire damaged this world treasure, engineers and antiquities experts
are still sifting through the rubble.
Our Jim Bittermann got rare access to the early efforts of this massive restoration process.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tourists still make their way to Notre Dame in Paris, but these days, their
holiday snapshots might look like they visited a construction site. Whether from an overabundance of caution or because those overseeing Notre
Dame's rise from the ashes has never dealt with anything quite like this before, the work site is a high security zone. Few are let in. And given
the high concentration of lead from the melted roof, all are required to wear special protective jumpsuits.
And the roof, a gaping hole where the fire burned most fiercely three months ago. The lead and other debris still litter the parts of the
vaulted ceiling which did not give way, leading to worries the extra weight could still bring down parts of the building.
For the most, the chief architect is concerned about shoring up the flying buttresses, which support the walls and vaulted ceiling. Huge, precisely
engineered wooden braces have been put in place beneath the ancient stonework to prevent it from shifting. No one is talking about rebuilding
just yet.
In fact, the restoration of Notre Dame has not yet started. It could be another nine months or more before that gets underway. Right now, the
chief architect says the building is in such fragile condition, it could still possibly collapse. And so work proceeds very slowly.
Debris still remains in the central nave area of the cathedral. The engineer on site says studies need to be made when the walls of Notre Dame
are thoroughly dried out to determine how much weight they can bear. Still, he believes President Macron's 2024 deadline for rebuilding Notre
Dame is possible.
[14:55:08] JEAN-MICHEL GUILMENT, PROJECT ENGINEER (through translator): I think by mobilizing everyone and by really committing large teams and major
companies, it's doable. It's absolutely doable, but we mustn't waste time.
BITTERMANN: Meanwhile, the treasures of Notre Dame, like the religious relics which were rescued during and after the fire are safely stored away,
many at the Louvre Museum. The stained glass windows are gone, taken away for cleaning and protection. The cultural ministry's conservator on the
project says the cathedral's paintings survived surprisingly well.
MARIE-HELENE DIDIER, CONSERVATOR, FRENCH MINISTRY OF CULTURE (through translator): What reassured us when we made a thorough inspection, we saw
the master pieces were all intact. There, we were, delighted, especially compared with the state of the building.
BITTERMANN: So given the state of the building, Notre Dame's rescue is cautious and slow. The cultural conservator says it's like working on an
archaeological dig. Indeed, everything, burnt timber or scorched stone, everything brought out of the cathedral is marked with a grid number to
indicate where it was found.
Even the conservators aren't sure where it will all end up. But they and everyone else working to save Notre Dame, know that from a religious,
cultural, and historical point of view, they are part of a monumental project unlike any before.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOBILO: Before we leave you tonight, we just have to show you this image. Take a look at this. It's a giant jelly fish and it appears to be the size
of a human. It stunned a diver off the southwestern coast of England. This barrel jelly fish, as it's called, was spotted near Falmouth by
broadcaster and biologist, Lizzie Daly. She described the encounter as breathtaking.
Pyramids, cathedrals, and jelly fish. Don't say we don't give you variety here on HALA GORANI TONIGHT. Thanks for watching. Stay with CNN. "QUEST
MEANS BUSINESS" is up next from right here in London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
