Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Critics Say Trump's Rhetoric Has Fanned The Flames Of Hate; El Paso Mass Shooting Being Treated As Domestic Terrorism; Democrats Condemn Mass Shootings, Blame Trump's Rhetoric; Interview With Rep. Adriano Espaillat (D-NY), Discussing Gun Legislation; Twenty-Two Now Dead In El Paso Shooting, Two Dying In Hospital; Call For Action On Gun Control After Shootings; Citywide Protests, Strikes Disrupt Hong Kong. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired August 05, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:00:28] HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome on this Monday. I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, the world is asking one question. Will anything
change after two mass shootings within 13 hours in the United States? We have special coverage trying to answer that question this hour.
Mental illness and hatred pulled the trigger, not the gun. That is what the U.S. President Donald Trump said. He used those words, as he addressed
a nation stunned and outraged by three mass shootings in one week, the two most recent over the weekend claiming 31 lives.
The deadliest, as we've been reporting and uncovering over the last several days happened in El Paso, Texas, near the Mexican border. Authorities say
the suspect wrote a racist manifesto, racist against immigrants, slamming what he called a Hispanic invitation before opening fire at a Walmart.
The death toll, sadly, was 20 until a few hours ago. But it has now risen to 22 people. Many Americans are once again demanding tighter gun control,
but that was not the focus, though, of Mr. Trump's speech this morning Eastern Time, though he did condemn white nationalism. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister
ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America. Hatred warps the mind, ravages the heart, and devours the soul.
We have asked the FBI to identify all further resources they need to investigate and disrupt hate crimes and domestic terrorism. Whatever they
need, we must recognize that the internet has provided a dangerous avenue to radicalize disturbed minds and perform demonstrated acts. We must shine
light on the dark recesses of the internet and stop mass murders before they start.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, critics say the President needs to look in the mirror instead of at a TV camera. They say his scripted words today ring hollow
when he's repeatedly whipped up crowds against undocumented immigrants using words over and over again like "invaders" and "infestations" to talk
about human beings.
Let's head to Washington to ask the ultimate question, will anything change this time? Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House. There are two
issues here. Hate crimes and yet another mass shooting, so the use of these high-capacity weapons to kill civilians. But for the first time, at
least in relation to a direct massacre, the president condemned domestic terrorism and white supremacy.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, he did call out white supremacy, something we did not see from the President when he made
those first initial brief remarks on these two shootings yesterday. But he said it pretty quickly on talking about not only white supremacy, but also
bigotry and racism overall today, in that speech from the diplomatic room here at the White House. But, of course, the question is, what is the
President going to do, going forward?
You heard him say during that that he's directed the FBI to look at ways -- further ways that they could examine and address things like domestic
terrorism, something we know that that is what the basis of their investigation after that shooting in El Paso is right now. Not exactly the
one in Dayton, but certainly the one at that Walmart in Texas.
But the President didn't offer any other details about what exactly he's looking for them to do. He's said he's asked them to identify it. He's
talked about those red flag laws, potentially being able to have families or associates be able to petition courts to prevent certain people from
getting firearms if there have been, these red flags about those people raised in the past.
That's something the President has floated. And then we also know he's talked about lawmakers, but of course the question is if that's something
the President sticks with.
You've seen him in the past after mass shootings, like the one in Parkland, Florida where the President raised things like universal background checks,
raising the age limits, things like that until he sat down with NRA leadership here at the White House and the President later backing off most
of those measures, except after the one in Las Vegas, where he did oversee that federal ban on using those bump stocks on certain weapons.
So that's what people are going to be looking forward, going forward. So far, we haven't seen a ton of Republican support for certain bills like
that. Some of them, they say they have, like with Lindsey Graham and red flag laws, but of course that's going to be the question going forward.
But also, not just what the President does, but also what the President says. You saw him in those about 10-minute remarks today where the
President did address the manifesto from the suspect in Texas, talking about how so the racist language used in that where he did talk about
immigration, but some of that is language that echoes what the President himself has said, even though the suspect in his manifesto seemed to see
this was coming and say his views on that did pre-date the President.
[14:05:24] GORANI: All right, they predict the President, though he was really just a teenager when the president announced he was running for
office. Thanks very much, Kaitlan Collins, live at the White House. And Kaitlan was mentioning that the President, after Parkland had expressed
support for universal background checks, but this is something he later backtracked on.
Now, let's go to this community in Texas. It got more devastating news today. Two more victims of the El Paso shooting died in the hospital.
This brings the total death toll to 22. Let's go live to Sara Sidner. She is in El Paso with the very latest. Sara?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean you just said it. The death toll has risen here. Two more people, two more families, two more people
from this community are gone. And when you consider the carnage that has happened here, it is not only devastating for this community, but for the
country, as a whole.
We should also talk about what was happening at the time of the shooting. This is a time just before school starts. The couple of weeks before
school starts when families go into places like Walmart and hay do back-to- school shopping. So lots of children around, so not only those who suffered death, not only those who are losing loved ones, but you have
people that will be traumatized for life from this. Children who watched all of this happening in front of their eyes, there were bodies strewn
about outside of the Walmart, as you know, people were running for their lives.
This is a -- something that keeps happening over and over and over again here in America. It is a uniquely American disease, if you will, that
keeps happening with these mass shootings. And in this particular case and in many of these shootings, the link two white nationalism is there.
If you look at the numbers -- the most recent numbers out by the Government Accountability Office, it is that far-right extremists caused the most
murders since 2001, which was the September 11th attacks, and we all remember who caused those, those were Islamic Jihadists.
But since them, as far as extremists go, it is far-right extremists that have caused the highest number of deaths caused by extremism. So that has
to be looked at. And I think the government is trying to figure out what to do, but they are trying to figure this all out a bit too late. You ask
victims of these crimes what they want to see and they want to see change.
One of the things that has happened is these websites have really helped embolden people who have white supremacist or neo-Nazi ideals ideal. And
we have been reporting on this, I, in particular for a very long time. And as you look through some of these websites like 8chan, which is perhaps the
most virulent, violent races place that you could go to see people spewing hatred and praising the people who do these kinds of mass shootings.
In this particular case, I went on just after the shooting and already people were calling the shooter that is suspected in this case, a hero, a
saint. And what you're seeing is the glorification of this on Web sites like 8chan. 8chan can not run without having a company that helps it stay
on the web, that helps it with security, that helps it smoothly run. That company, Cloudflare has dropped it and knocked it off the web. But there
is always another company behind it.
And we see this over and over again. It is a place like gab, 8chan, 4chan where people with do online and find their ideas, as hateful as you can
possibly imagine, reflected back at them. There are a lot of groups talking about the fact that they are inciting hate, but they're also
inciting violence. And so that is something that is definitely being looked at by federal authorities now.
As to what to do about it, there's a loss for words. This is going to have to be a multi-faceted, multi-pronged approach to try to deal with this
because mass shootings in this country happen nearly every single day of this year. Many of them you never hear about. Two or three people killed.
Some of them, like this one, where 22 people were slaughtered as they just tried to go about their daily lives, you hear about them across the world.
Hala?
GORANI: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And especially when there's a suspected manifesto and a political motive and we're now calling it terrorism.
Certainly, this is something that is very concerning, especially in this political climate.
Sara Sidner in El Paso, thanks very much for your reporting.
CNN has been speaking to a number of Democratic presidential candidates since these shootings. Many of them strongly condemn the President's
rhetoric and say that it played a role in facilitating this violence, perhaps no one more so than Beto O'Rourke. After all, El Paso, Texas, is
his hometown, where 22 people were killed in that horrifying attack by white supremacists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[14:10:24] BETO O'ROURKE, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's be very clear about what is causing this and who the President is. He is an
open, avowed racist and is encouraging more racism in this country and this is incredibly dangerous for the United States of America right now. All of
us have a responsibility to stand up and be counted on this issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Cory Booker also laid the blame on President Trump, accusing him of giving license to this kind of violence through the language that he
uses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CORY BOOKER, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is responsible for this. He is responsible because he is stoking fears and
hatred and bigotry. He is responsible because he's failing to condemn white supremacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Bernie Sanders joined other Democrats in condemning the rhetoric used by the President, saying he believes Donald Trump is trying
to appeal to white nationalism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNIE SANDERS, U.S. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am sure that President Trump does not want anybody in this country to go around shooting
other people. But what he has got to understand is that when you have language that is racist, that is virulently anti-immigrant, there are
mentally unstable people in this country who see that as a sign to do terrible, terrible things. So I think the President has got to stop that
racist -- racism and that xenophobia immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The Republican reaction was a bit more muted, to say the least. CNN, in fact, reached out to dozens of Republican lawmakers and only one
accepted the invitation. Congressman Ted Yoho from Florida said "yes." He was asked about the idea of universal background checks when buying a gun.
Here was his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TED YOHO (R-FL): I support background checks now, but if it gets too inclusive or encumbering, again, I would have to wait to see it before I
can answer that. The important thing is that we come together, and I heard that the President was talking about bringing us in and calling us back
into session, which I think is an awesome idea, but I don't want to have a knee-jerk reaction that we move on a motion instead of coming together for
a solution for this long-term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Kevin McCarthy is the Republican leader in the House of Representatives. On Sunday, he brought up an issue that President Trump
also focused on: violent video games.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN MCCARTHY, U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICAN LEADER: I've always felt that is a problem for future generations and others. We've watched from studies
shown before of what it does to individuals. When you look at these photos of how it took place, you can see the actions within video games.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Also worth noting, as many have over the last few days, that many countries have video games, many countries have
disenfranchised 21-year-old males and they don't necessarily or really at all ever end up shooting up shopping malls. But one Nebraska State
Republican is criticizing his own party for enabling white supremacy. John McCallister says he doesn't think his fellow Republicans are all white
supremacists, but says the party is complicit to obvious racist and immoral activity inside the party.
Joining me now to talk about what he's observed is Fred -- is Frank Meeink sorry, a former hate group member, and author of the book "Autobiographer
of a Recovering Skinhead." Thanks for being with us, Frank.
First of all, your thoughts when you, as we all did, watched TV probably, heard about that El Paso massacre, and that the suspect is believed to have
posted a racist anti-immigrant manifesto online before going on that shooting spree. What went through your mind?
FRANK MEEINK, FORMER HATE GROUP MEMBER: My first thought was when I seen the young child at the garlic festival, he was probably the first one that
touched my heart, just seeing the little 6-year-old boy who hadn't had a chance to live life and to know that hateful rhetoric that I once spewed is
something that led to that type of shooting. That's what I first thought about in the --
GORANI: Where do you think -- that was your -- now, you are obviously a reformed skinhead. You would have called yourself, at the time, when you
were radicalized, a white supremacist?
MEEINK: Oh, absolutely, white separatist, whatever name you want to give, a white separatist, a white supremacist, a white nationalist. I mean, we
used all the same rhetoric and same names they use nowadays.
Nowadays, all the groups, the alt-right have just changed their names, because they believe the same stuff I believe, they're just kind of ---
they can't go off of what we did in the '90s or what other people did in the '80s, because we all did bad things, so they're kind of trying to
rebrand themselves, remarketing themselves. And now they have the main marketing person right in the White House with them.
[14:15:15] So you've got to know at the beginning of Mr. Trump's -- Donald Trump's presidency, a group called "Life After Hate" was already receiving
money to study more right-wing extremism and he took that money away from us and said he only wants money dedicated towards Islamic extremism and he
took $400,000 away from a group called Life After Hate, and he did that spitefully to keep it away from groups that are looking at right-wing. So
this is true. This isn't a myth. This isn't -- is he really a racist?
He actually did this. He took money away from anything that was going to look at right-wing extremism and he gave it to only things that had to do
with Islamic extremism.
GORANI: This is the group that you work with had funding, federal funding that was taken away, is what you're saying?
MEEINK: Yes, $400,000. And Kaepernick, the football player, wound up giving us some money, Kaepernick did.
GORANI: So you believe that the words that are coming from the President are emboldening some of these white supremacists to act? Because that's a
serious charge to make. Can you explain why you believe that?
MEEINK: Oh, it's not a charge, it's fact. Here's the facts. When he says he's against white supremacists, I know people right now that are nudging
each other going, "Yes, he's really against white supremacy," and he's not.
I mean, he -- from the day he got -- announced his candidacy, he made that emboldened speech of, all people coming across our borders are drug
dealers, murderers, rapists, killers, and I assume some are good people. He just invited every racist in America, because every racist in America
makes exceptions. We have to. We live in this multicultural country.
And what I mean by is every racist says stuff like this. "I hate all black people except for John, because I work with John," that's exactly what he
just said. So every racist says, "Hey, that's exactly the way I feel." This country, we need an intervention. We truly need a real intervention,
on guns, on the hate and violence, and then -- we already heard -- I just heard it on your network two minutes ago.
Someone said, "Well, let's -- let everything calm down and then we'll talk." You don't do interventions on a drug addict or an alcoholic when
they're clean and sober. You do it right after something major happens in their life because of drugs and alcohol, you do the intervention. That's
what this country needs and nobody wants to talk about it.
GORANI: Help me understand, because you were that young man who hated non- whites, who probably wished their death or at least their deportation or whatever. What goes --
MEEINK: No, their death.
GORANI: This young men, this suspect -- their death. This suspect in the El Paso shooting, apparently he posted manifestos online, he exchanged his
ideas and encouragement with people on 8chan and these dark Web chat forums. How does it happen? How do you become radicalized to that point?
What goes through a young man's mind to reach that point?
MEEINK: When you feel -- when there's just -- you're full of fear. You know, you don't know what's going on in the world. And when you're full of
fear and then someone directs you -- I used to wake up every morning and hate that black people had B.E.T. I mean I woke up as a 14-year-old with a
knot in my stomach, why do they get B.E.T., why don't we have white entertainment?
GORANI: Right.
MEEINK: Like it was my fear of going on in my life. I mean, I had tons of stuff that was bad going on before racism, but now someone has allowed me
to feel that people now fear me. See, these people want the world to fear them, because they're so full of fear themselves. And that's what we're
working with, people that are so full of fear and ego and no self-esteem.
When people have ego and no self-esteem and then you put, you know, this fear and hatred in there, you are boiling a pot and you're just waiting for
it to steam over. And that's exactly what we've got. And this is what we're headed more towards. I'm really worried about more of this to come.
The lone wolfs, as they say, that Timothy McVeigh is what start -- you know, who's the man started the lone wolfs of what's going on.
And we're kind of in trouble. And people don't want to talk about it now, because it's too -- you know, let's let everything calm down and then we'll
go on to the next topic, anyway. You know, back to the wall.
GORANI: Yes.
MEEINK: Let's argue over a stupid wall.
GORANI: So when you hear the President say -- I mean, he gave -- did you hear his address today? So it was --
MEEINK: Yes.
GORANI: So it was a highly scripted address. He denounced the evil of the atrocities. He said, we must disavow racism. Our nation must condemn
white supremacy and called what the El Paso suspect did "domestic terrorism." Is that --
MEEINK: Yes. And that's --
GORANI: Has he gone far enough in your opinion?
MEEINK: No, no. Let's -- do you really believe what he said? It's scripted. Let's go off of what his tweets are going to be in two weeks
from now when he's Twitter battling with somebody like he's a rapper with some other congressman and some other part of the country that has more
minorities in their system and calls them, you know, whatever name he wants to call their part of the city and then let's talk again.
So in two weeks, he'll be tweet -- he can't stop tweeting. He's going to tweet tomorrow about how someone's a scumbag or they're a low life. I
mean, he's going to call people the same names.
[14:20:02] Today was scripted. He knew he had to do it. Let's let Donald Trump be Donald Trump and let him tweet out in two days what he really
feels about something, all right. As soon as someone says something about him, he's going to -- I mean, look, we he's supporting nationalism.
I mean you're at it. Just it oozes out of every sentence he says. And we just sit here and go -- now we start arguing on all of our 24-hour news
networks, oh maybe we can do this. No, the dude is supporting racists. They hailed when he was elected. They gave Sieg Heils and said, Heil -- I
mean, Heil Trump, Heil Trump. Where else can we -- I never see that before.
And you got to remember that these people, they're so hell bent on this because they think that Obama let black lives matter, riot in the cities
because they blame it all on black lives matter, not that the police were killing people but they blame it on and they're saying well, he let them do
that so Donald Trump's going to let us do this. That's what their thought process is right now.
GORANI: Frank --
MEEINK: That's scary.
GORANI: Frank Meeink. Yes, I really -- I wish we could talk further. This is just a fascinating conversation. Frank Meeink, you're a former
supremacist. It remind me the book you wrote though about your-- also about, you know, how you moved away from this ideology, the title of it.
MEEINK: Yes, it's "Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead" and it's all about empathy, people. Please, you have to relearn empathy to learn not
how to hate. Empathy is the tool that we have to fight hate.
GORANI: Frank Meeink, really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us.
When we come back, we will have a live report from Dayton, Ohio, where another community is asking, why did it happened to them and what can be
done to stop it?
Also mourners in Dayton, Ohio, with a simple message, "Do something!" to their elected officials. But will their call be heard this time? I speak
to a congressman, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well only hours after the mass shooting in El Paso, Texas, a similar situation unfolded Sunday morning in Dayton, Ohio. A gunman opened
fire in a part of town known for its bars and nightclubs, even though police were on the scene in seconds, the gunman still managed to kill nine
people. Another 37 were injured. Two cities separated by 2,500 kilometers, a Walmart and some nightclubs now forever connected by the
scourge of gun violence in the U.S.
With the latest on the Dayton shooting, let's bring in CNN's Ryan Young. What's the latest on the investigation here? And I think people have been
-- because we may -- we have clearer ideas about the potential motive of the El Paso shooter, in the case of Dayton, are we any closer to
understanding what motivated that shooter?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Not yet. There are so many questions in this case, so there are some things that just kind of stand out to you.
[14:25:01] The first thing here is there seems to be no online manifesto just yet, in terms of what police have been investigating. Of course,
they're probably breaking this shooter down, going through his social media, seeing what he's searched over the last few months.
One of the things that has stood out is the fact that so many who have died in this crime were been African-American. So there has been a question or
a concern about whether or not he was targeting a certain nightclub.
Let's also not forget that his sister was one of the people who was killed in this shooting. So did he accidentally shoot his sister? Did she get
into the gunfire? So many questions about that and there's a companion that police are talking to. We actually believe he may be staying at the
hospital behind us. But there's so many questions about that next spot there.
But look, you're talking about a young man who showed up with a mask and earmuffs and a high-powered rifle that had over 100 rounds in it. And
today, the police chief was telling us that he shot over 41 rounds in about a 24-second span. It was not until those officers showed up and it took
him out in about 30 seconds that this whole thing came to an end. Very scary situation, especially when you talk to the people of this community
GORANI: Ryan Young, thanks very much. And when you see that high-capacity magazine, absolutely unbelievable and it is a weapon of war. Thank you.
More now on the attack in El Paso, Texas that other U.S. mass shooting this past weekend, it's likely no accident that the gunman chose a city along
the border with Mexico. Authorities believe the suspect posted a manifesto filled with racist hatred, aimed at immigrants and Latinos. Eight Mexicans
are among the dead and we have images of five of them.
Married couple Sara Esther Regalado and Adolfo Cerros Hernandez. Gloria Irma Marquez described by her family -- sorry, as a dedicated mother and
grandmother. Jorge Calvillo Garcia, his nephew -- it's always difficult to see the faces, isn't it? His nephew tells our affiliate KFOX that he died
shielding his granddaughter's soccer team. Elsa Mendoza de la Mora, described as a sister, wife, and mother. And Maria Eugenia Legarreta
Rothe, this is her daughter's favorite picture of her.
So I said it's difficult, because if you are human and you read out names and you see pictures, it is virtually impossible not to feel something.
Mexico's foreign secretary calls the shooting an act of terror against Mexicans and its president confirms that legal action is likely. What form
could that take? Patrick Oppmann joins me now from Mexico City. What is the government saying they want to do legally here, Patrick?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just first all, you know, the pain you're describing, so many Mexicans that I've talked to today feel the same
pain because so many people here have family that live in the United States or have family that live on the border, that go back and forth across the
border every day and shop in the United States or work in the United States and live in Mexico. So this is something incredibly common and it really
hits everybody here that I've talked to very, very deeply, because they can realize it could happen at any time to anyone.
And Mexicans here tell me that they feel that they were targeted. That these people who were killed, the Mexicans, were clearly targeted and the
Mexican government is calling this a terrorist attack, a hate crime against Mexicans and they're asking the United States for many things to change
here. That they feel the United States needs to make it much more difficult, as it is in Mexico, to buy these kinds of weapons, to buy any
kind of firearms. They say that perhaps the suspect should be extraditing, which would be a first two Mexico to face trial here.
If he indeed targeted Mexicans and then Mexican's foreign minister is in El Paso today, assisting with the victims' family members, helping bring these
peoples' bodies back across the border, the final crossing to Mexican to their home country where they will receive burial here. And that is a long
process, because many of these people, as of this morning, were still lying where they were cut down in that Walmart parking lot as the investigation
continues. But the family members here have said that they are waiting anxiously for their loved ones to come home.
GORANI: And talk to us a little bit about what we could expect from the government and what response we could expect from the United States here on
this. What legal grounds there could be?
OPPMANN: It's really tough to see how Mexico demanding particularly, demanding of the Trump administration, since there's been such a
contentious relationship, really will change anything. Certainly, changing gun laws in the United States, that's been very, very difficult for groups
within the United States to try and change.
Extraditing a suspect who is facing charges in the United States to a foreign country, there is really no precedent for that but the Mexican
government says that they may ask for that. And that they say as well that they can bring lawsuits against the suspect, perhaps against the gun store
or the individuals who sold them these weapons that they used or perhaps the ammunition he used.
[14:30:00] How much will really change? We don't know. Obviously, this is a government that is facing threats on terms of trades and other things
from the Trump administration. Other things from the Trump administration. But they're drawing a line in the sand here. They're saying that their
citizens were targeted and this could not be business as usual.
GORANI: All right. Patrick Oppmann in Mexico City, thanks very much.
Still to come tonight, we'll talk about white supremacy and domestic terrorism in the United States. Why are they on the rise? We will be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: As we learn more about the motive behind about the attack in El Paso, Texas, we're also learning about the lives that were taken. The
incomprehensible human tragedy behind the numbers.
Rosa Flores has more now on those who lost their lives in El Paso.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Residents filling vigils and memorials in El Paso, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: in El Paso, we are one, big family. We know that the country is mourning with us.
FLORES: The attack injuring, at least, 26 others. An elevated sense of fear for many residents here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're being isolated for our color.
FLORES: Survivors struggling to comprehend why they made it out alive when many did not.
ERICA CONTRERAS, WITNESS: Everything that happened was just terrible, but we are blessed. We are blessed because we're alive. And I pray for all
those people that died. It was so many.
FLORES: Two of those murdered, Andre and Jordan Anchondo. They were inside the Wal-Mart with their 2-month-old son when the shooting began.
LETA JAMROWSKI, JORDAN ANCHONDO'S SISTER: She was just a wonderful person. She'd give anything for those kids. Anything. Even her life.
FLORES: That's what Jordan apparently did that day, protecting her baby by using her body as a shield. The baby was injured but survived.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to just find my mom. Somebody needs to tell me where she is. I want to know if she's dead or alive.
FLORES: This emotional plea from a daughter ending in heartbreak. Eighty- six-year-old Angie Englisbee's family now says she's one of the victims.
And 60-year-old Arturo Benavides, an Army veteran and bus driver, his niece describing him as a caring and strong-willed man with plenty of love left
to share.
[14:35:05] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know. I don't know.
FLORES: Police and federal authorities still piecing together why the 21- year-old suspect allegedly went on a rampage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are treating it as a domestic terrorism case.
FLORES: Local police saying the suspect is cooperating with investigators and that he is unrepentant.
Law enforcement sources also tell CNN the suspect posted a four-page manifesto online, filled with white nationalist and racist language,
targeting immigrants and Hispanics.
CHIEF GREG ALLEN, EL PASO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have a manifesto from this individual that indicates, to some degree, it has a nexus to a potential
hate crime.
FLORES: State officials seeking the ultimate punishment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will seek the death penalty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Rosa Flores reporting there. As she mentioned in her report, the shooting in El Paso is being treated as a case of domestic terrorism, yet
American political legal leaders have previously been slow to condemn these kind of attacks as terrorism.
I want to get more on this issue. Peter Neumann is Director of The International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political
Violence, and he joins me now in the studio. And you and I, abnormally, unusually, over the last several years, especially with what happened in
Paris and London, even here, speak of radical Islamic terrorism.
In this case, this is white supremacist terrorism. But there are similarities, aren't there?
PETER NEUMANN, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF RADICALIZATION AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE: There are similarities in the sense
that all extremism is, in a way, a massive identity reduction exercise. It's about us versus them. It's about telling people, you're one thing,
and everyone who is not like you is an enemy. And needs to be excluded or in the worst circumstances, killed. And that's a similarity of all kinds
of extremism.
Another similarity is, of course, that the internet has become a real hub for these people to get together to communicate to network and also sort of
echo chamber where they reinforce each other's opinions.
GORANI: In this case, it's 8chan, which is the deep web where these extremists exchange ideas, they encourage each other, they even celebrate
death counts.
NEUMANN: Yes. So previously, we always talked about Facebook and Twitter, which are mainstream big platforms. 8chan is more fringe. It's not
exactly in the dark web, so everyone can access it, but it's a message forum that is much more limited in its audience. And what it says to its
users is, we have no restrictions. There is no limit on this hate speech you can engage in. And that's why it's become a meeting place for extreme
rightists, which have formed communities which basically provide a sort of place where you can encourage each other, where body counts happen, et
cetera.
GORANI: So you've studied this for years. If this 21-year-old didn't have access to these communities, would his radicalization be slowed or even
potentially not happen at all?
NEUMANN: It's a very interesting question. I think it would have been slowed. I think you're exactly right. These forums have a way of
amplifying and of speeding up people's radicalization. And the really important thing is, no terrorists -- and a lot of right-wing extremists are
lone actors. They carry out these acts of terrorism by themselves. But no one wants to think that no one cares.
And so, these platforms give people the feeling that there is a community of people who like it, who applaud it, and who will imitate it. And that's
really important to feel that you're part of something, that you're part of a community.
GORANI: My next question is, if this continues and we've heard many people blame the president for using rhetoric that was found in this manifesto, we
believe, this suspect posted online. Twenty minutes before the first police call was received, by the way. Could this then lead to more
organized groups? Because they talk to each other and maybe they'll give each other advice or tell each other where to find funding to buy high-
capacity magazines and weapons?
NEUMANN: So there's some evidence in the United States of groups that are a little bit more organized. There's a group called Atomwaffen Division,
which basically meets offline and organizes attacks offline. But most of the people on these forums, they don't want to meet offline. So I think
the predominant modus operandi will continue to be lone actors who, however, socialize online, connect to other people, but do things by
themselves.
GORANI: What I find interesting is he was taken alive. He didn't seemed - - he seemed happy to be taken alive.
NEUMANN: Yes.
GORANI: Like the Christchurch shooter, potentially to be able to spread this propaganda message more, maybe, even in court or something?
NEUMANN: Well, in the case of the New Zealand attacker, he was looking forward to defending himself. He wants the court trial to be a sort of
continuation of his propaganda exercise. In the case of El Paso, in his manifesto, if it is his manifesto, he actually said he expected to be
killed. So I'm not sure that was part of his plan.
[14:40:09] GORANI: And in the United States, there's been criticism directed at the federal government. I even interviewed at the beginning of
this hour, a former white supremacist, who said one of his groups that was receiving federal funding had its funding stripped
There's been a criticism of intelligence agencies that they don't focus as much on white terror. And that they're really --
NEUMANN: Yes, I think there's a distinction to be made. I think the FBI and the people on the ground level, they are really focused on that and
they see it and they are talking about it. But it's very difficult to do something if the political leadership is lacking. And the political
leadership has not been forthcoming. As long as that is the case, you will not make your mark. You will not make a career within the FBI, by focusing
on white supremacists. So it's really important --
GORANI: It's killed many more people than any --
NEUMANN: Absolutely.
GORANI: -- kind of Muslim extremism.
Thanks very much, Peter Neumann, I really appreciate it, as always.
El Paso, Texas, Dayton, Ohio, two communities in the United States that join the Columbines, the Parklands, the Sandy Hooks, and countless others
that have had to go through the horror of a mass shooting.
After those tragedies, there were loud calls for something to be done, but ultimately little changed. We're hearing those calls once again. This is
a striking front page from the New York Post, the Murdoch-owned New York Post, calling for a ban on what it calls weapons of war.
At a vigil on Sunday, Ohio's governor spoke about the tragedy. The response of the crowd to the Ohio governor was this
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: Do something!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: "Do something." While these mass shootings get the most attention, it's worth noting that gun violence crops up in smaller ways all
over the United States, partly because of the sheered number of weapons.
Now, most of you know how many people live in the United States, 320 million or so. Well, guns outnumber people in the country. Take the City
of Chicago as an example. This weekend, 55 people were victims of gun violence, seven of them were killed.
The Chicago Police Department tweeted out chilling audio that was recorded as one of the shootings happened. Listen.
(GUNFIRE)
GORANI: According to the Chicago Tribune, at least 1,600 people have been shot in Chicago this year. At least 300 have been killed. But what if
anything will change?
Let's speak to a Democratic Congressman, Adriano Espaillat. He joins me now from New York.
Congressman, thanks for being us. Do you think this is a turning point finally or not in terms of gun legislation?
REP. ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-NY): I hope so. I thought Columbine should have been. But again, for six and a half years, there hasn't been a hearing on
gun control. I know we often want to say that this is not a partisan issue, but I think it is. Because for six and a half years, when the
Republicans were in control of the House Of Representatives, not even a hearing was held on gun control.
Mitch McConnell, right, now is sitting on two pieces of legislation, very important to augment background checks. Critically important. We ought to
go back and do an assault weapons ban. These are all issues that are critical to the life and death for the American public.
And for far too long, Congress has not found its way to do the right thing and pass legislation to limit the semi-automatic weapons in the hands of
people like the young man in El Paso.
GORANI: Congressman, explain something to our international viewers. Because we keep telling them that a vast majority of Americans, whether
they're Republicans or whether they are Democrats, want more background checks. That they are in favor of limiting access to these weapons of war.
Yet, politicians, when given the chance, even when bills are, you know, passed in the House, go to the Republican-controlled Senate, can sometimes
get a majority of votes there. And the president will say he will veto some of these bills or there will be a filibuster that will kill those
bills. Why is it that politicians, even though Americans want it, are not giving them what their constituents want, which is more control over these
assault rifles?
ESPAILLAT: It's got three letters, it's called the NRA. And the NRA, the National Rifle Association, has got the president and Senate-controlled,
Republican-controlled Senate hostages. And therefore, they are not willing to save the lives of the American people. And they are beholden to that
lobby.
[14:45:05] And time and time again, when legislation is passed that makes sense, background checks, enhanced background checks, a ban on assault
weapons. Why should anybody be walking around with a semiautomatic weapon? In the case of El Paso, an AK-47. In the case of Dayton, Ohio, an AR-15
with a drum magazine with a hundred ammunition bullets. Forty one shots fired in 32 seconds.
Unbelievable that anybody would think that it's OK for anybody to walk around with that kind of weapon in any city in America. Yet Mitch
McConnell refuses to take up these bills.
GORANI: So if you're saying then that the lobby group -- this is what you're saying. That the lobby group is so powerful, has such a hold on the
American political process that even American democracy, through its voters, has less power than a lobby group on Capitol Hill? Is that what
you're saying?
ESPAILLAT: Not only that, but I think that the president has cuddled with some of the most right-wing and radical sectors of America --
GORANI: But this predates the president though, congressman. This predates the president.
ESPAILLAT: I agree. That's correct.
GORANI: After Sandy Hook, nothing was done. You've had mass shootings, kids killed, people killed in public places and movie theaters. This was
before Donald Trump.
ESPAILLAT: That's correct and, again, the NRA has imposed itself in the Republican-led Senate, before that in the Republican-led house for six and
a half years while Republicans had control of the house of representatives. Not even a hearing on these important issues.
But now that we have Trump in the White House, they're on steroids. And they have, in fact, absorbed this culture of violence. And it's sort of
like almost automatic. We don't even sort of like think about it anymore. It happens so often that we don't even see it as the tragedy that it is.
But it is a tragedy, we must address it. We should call on Senate leader Mitch McConnell to take up these bills immediately. In fact, we should go
back to Washington while we are in this recess, the August recess and legislate immediately.
GORANI: Yes. And what is your level of optimism here? Because after Parkland, the president came out in support of background checks. He
backtracked on that. After every massacre, everybody comes together and says the same thing. This is terrible, we have to do something. And then
for a few days, people pledge support for more gun control. And then that evaporates. Why would this time be different?
ESPAILLAT: This is the deadliest attack on the Latino community ever. It put -- it has put a target on the backs of Latino. And we hear the
president saying, well, we're going to do some of these things, but let's talk about immigration reform. He wants to trade, he wants to barter on
the blood of the American people. Unbelievable.
I think that this may be the one that breaks the camel's back. I am optimistic and I'm hopeful that we'll go back to Washington and legislate
immediately. That's what the American people want us to do.
GORANI: All right. Adriano Espaillat, thanks very much for joining us, congressman. Appreciate it.
ESPAILLAT: Thank you so much. Thank you.
GORANI: We'll have more special coverage of the mass shootings ahead, plus today's other news, including police and protestors facing off once again
in Hong Kong.
Also, the Dow is taking a huge dive. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:50:33] GORANI: We're seeing a huge dive for the Dow Jones. Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange.
Alison -- is she here? There you are. What's going on? We're over 800 points down.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and we're seeing those losses accelerate, Hala, as we get closer to the closing bell. You know,
really ugly day. This is all about the trade war. And any doubt that you had about the U.S. and China in the middle of a trade war, I would say
doubt no more.
The latest salvo coming from China overnight, retaliating against the U.S. by devaluing its currency, the yuan, against the dollar. So there's worry
that there could be a global currency war next.
Now, while China is not saying it's deliberate, its move in doing this, it is sparking speculation that this is intentional to fight back in the trade
war after President Trump announced that there would be a fresh 10 percent tariff on Chinese goods set to take effect on September 1st. And those are
on the remaining $300 billion of Chinese goods. Hala?
GORANI: So what could -- I mean, is this likely to be a trend that continues? This nervousness here? Because it could really -- it could
really impact the stock indices across the board.
FLORES: Yes. I see this volatility just sort of the beginning until they get -- until investors get new news otherwise. And if you think about the
way this trade war has gone, just over the past few months, Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, had promised that there would be some sort of
solution at the end of the summer. Well, now, it looks like there won't be, and now the thinking is there won't even be a solution to the trade war
this year.
So, you know, what you're basically seeing are investors repricing stocks based on this new landscape. A new landscape that many investors see as
pretty dangerous, because it could be -- it could turn into a currency war. And even if it doesn't, if it's just this trade war that's protracted and
drawn out more, you're going to see it directly impact corporate America in their profits and their revenue. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Alison, thanks very much.
Activists in Hong Kong are not backing down. What started out as demonstrations against an extradition bill in June, have evolved into a
much wider movement. They upped the ante Monday by disrupting travel with citywide strikes.
Ben Wedeman is in Hong Kong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No exit for thousands of outbound travelers as striking workers kept dozens of
flights grounded at Hong Kong international Monday.
The city's embattled leader not going anywhere, either, refusing to be pushed out as Hong Kong's protest movement found fresh momentum with a
general strike.
CARRIE LAM, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE: I don't think, at this point in time, resignation of myself or some of my colleagues will provide a better
solution.
WEDEMAN: But that was not what so many angry people in Hong Kong wanted to hear, after nine weeks of mass demonstrations, met by tear gas, rubber
bullets, and batons. So out on the streets again on Monday afternoon, once again police using force to clear them away.
LAM: Such extensive disruptions in the name of certain demands or uncooperative movement have seriously undermined Hong Kong's law and order.
And are pushing our city, the city we all love and many of us helped to build to the verge of a very dangerous situation.
WEDEMAN: That warning came from Carrie Lam as protesters hit the city's economy with their strike. And another warning from Beijing, furious at
the site of the red banner of the People's Republic tossed in the harbor by protesters, many of whom claimed decisions on Hong Kong's future are made
in China.
: We want to tell those radical mobs who hold illusions in trying to continue to make chaos in Hong Kong that you will definitely pay the price
for arrogance and presumptuousness. Please turn back from the wrong path and give up violence.
WEDEMAN: Beijing will speak out about this violent summer of protest again Tuesday. Those in Hong Kong on strike and battling with police show no
signs of tempering their anger.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[14:55:04] GORANI: We'll return to our top story after a short break and hear from one man who lost two cousins in the Dayton shooting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: An all-too-common sight in America. Mass vigils to mourn the victims of mass shootings. People across the country today are asking when
is enough enough? What will it take for politicians to offer more than their thoughts and prayers? One man who lost two cousins in Dayton spoke
to CNN. His voice raw with emotion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON DAVENPORT, LOST TWO COUSINS IN DAYTON SHOOTING: I'm lost for words right now, my family's lost for words. But I've got to remain strong. My
cousins did not deserve to lose their life. They had children. Hard- working people. All they was doing was enjoying a night on the town and they're dead. Never to come home again, never to see their family again.
They're gone.
And I want the president to hear this. Donald Trump, I want you to hear this. You need to be here right now. You need to. And I'm going to get
on every news station and I'm going to shout this out.
You know, we have gun laws, people can just go and buy guns and you know, not even be registered or not even qualify, you know, they can just walk
into a gun store and buy high-powered equipment and walk right out and kill people in broad daylight, broad night time, you know what I'm saying? This
has got to stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN, more special coverage of the aftermath of these shootings. And we leave you
with some emotional moments of one vigil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
END
