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Hala Gorani Tonight
Phillip Lee Defects From Conservative Party To Join Opposition; Interview With Members Of Parliament, Layla Moran And Ben Bradshaw; Citizen-Initiated Rescue Missions Begin In Bahamas; U.K. Parliament Holding Emergency Debate On Brexit; E.U. Watches British Debate; Hurricane Dorian Devastates Bahamas. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 03, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:17] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from outside the Houses of Parliament in London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, members of parliament debate whether to take control of the Brexit process, but the Prime Minister Boris Johnson, is fighting back, even
though he has now officially lost his majority in parliament.
Also this hour, we're keeping an eye on Hurricane Dorian, and islands submerged. We will be going live to the Bahamas, and to Florida.
Now, it's been a day of high drama in Britain's parliament, and it's far from over. Within the past few minutes, the House of Commons Speaker, John
Burko, approved an emergency debate on whether lawmakers can seize control of parliament to try to block a no-deal Brexit.
That debate is expected to last several hours, leading up to a crucial vote that could have far-reaching implications, not only for Brexit but for the
future of the current government.
It started with Prime Minister Boris Johnson, telling M.P.s he can get a new withdrawal deal with the E.U., but only if the threat of a no-deal
Brexit remains in play. Yesterday, he threatened to call a snap election if a vote to block no-deal passes. Add to that, an unexpected swerve, a
dramatic moment in parliament today, the Conservative Member of Parliament, Phillip Lee defected to an opposition party. He literally walked across
the aisle, meaning, Mr. Johnson has lost his working majority in parliament.
Here's what the prime minister had to say, earlier, followed by the opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN: Mr. Speaker, there is one step that would jeopardize all the progress that we have made in the G7--
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: -- and around the capitals of Europe. And that is, if this house were to decide that it was simply impossible for us to leave without a
deal, and to make that step illegal --
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: -- to force us -- that's what they want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
JOHNSON: -- to undermine our division (ph), to force us, that's what they want. To force us to beg, to force us to beg for yet another pointless
delay. If that happens, all the progress that we have been making will have been for nothing.
(CROSSALK)
JEREMY CORBYN, BRITISH OPPOSITION LEADER: I condemn the rhetoric the prime minister used when he talked about a surrender bill. I hope he will
reflect on his use of language.
(CROSSTALK)
CORBYN: I really do hope he will reflect on his use of language. We're not surrendering because we're at war with Europe. They are, surely, our
partners. If anything, it is a no-deal exit that would mean surrendering our industry, our jobs, surrendering our standards and protections in a
trade deal with Donald Trump and the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, debate in parliament continues as we speak, leading up to that vote later that could have huge implications on the future of Brexit.
And in fact the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, is speaking now. Let's listen in briefly.
CORBYN: We cannot -- we cannot stand idly by.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) leave (ph) with the opposition. In 2015, I think I'm correct in saying that the leader of the opposition voted for the
referendum. Did he meant to abide by what the referendum came forward with?
(CROSSTALK)
CORBYN: Yes, the Labour opposition did support the referendum. We did take part in the referendum campaign. We also made it very clear, in the
general election, that we would not countenance a no-deal exit from the European Union --
(CROSSTALK)
CORBYN: -- because of the damage it would do. And so we cannot hope for another opportunity, further down the line, to stop this government's
destructive course. There is no more time. They've taken it away. This may be our last opportunity . Today, Mr. Speaker, we must act.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank my very honorable friend for giving way (ph). Many constituents (INAUDIBLE) businesses in (INAUDIBLE), they have
contacted me. They're very, very worried about the danger of a no-deal Brexit --
GORANI: Well, I'm joined now by Bianca Nobilo and our political analyst Carole Walker.
Jeremy Corbyn there, is he going to support the idea of a general election -- Carole, I'll start with you -- because if this legislation to block a
no-deal Brexit gets through, the prime minister, Boris Johnson, might want to go down the road of calling a general election. But he needs a two-
thirds majority in parliament to do so, so he needs Labour.
CAROLE WALKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: At the moment, it looks as though Labour are not going to go down that route. It is extraordinary, what
we're seeing here in parliament. You heard Jeremy Corbyn, there.
We've had very many dramatic days here at Westminster, but this is really getting close to the final showdown now.
GORANI: Yes.
WALKER: And what is happening in that emergency debate is, that this is M.P.s across all party, with the support of some Conservative rebels,
putting down an emergency motion, which will allow them to take control of what happens in parliament tomorrow, put through this deal, which would
essentially compel the prime minister to seek a delay, if he's heading for the end of the month --
GORANI: So --
WALKER: -- without a deal. And yes, at that stage, the prime minister will try and force a general election --
GORANI: Yes, I hope --
WALKER: -- it doesn't look as though he's going to get the numbers.
GORANI: I hope people can hear -- just one moment, Bianca -- because what Jeremy Corbyn said there, and, frankly, there is a lot of activity behind
us --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: Jeremy Corbyn said, "We are ready for a general election. We are ready to take on this government, and ready to win a general election to
end austerity and poverty (ph) across this country." Is he going to support the idea of a general election? Will we see one, mid-October, in
this country?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For the last three years, Jeremy Corbyn has maintained that a general election is the best way out of this crisis.
It would be very difficult for him, politically, to save face and then not to support a general election.
There's been some other noises from the Labour Party, indicating that if a general election could inadvertently lead Britain --
GORANI: Yes.
NOBILO: -- then maybe they couldn't support it, so no general election before the Brexit date.
But what I would say as well, you were talking about the two-thirds majority. There is actually more than one way to effect a general
election.
GORANI: Right.
NOBILO: It's possible that they could amend the fixed-term parliament, actually even repeal it, with a simple parliamentary majority. So that
would be one, a majority of one rather than two-thirds.
GORANI: These would all be exceptional measures --
NOBILO: Well, yes.
GORANI: -- that the prime minister would have to use in order to get his way.
The question is, what happens if this bill -- and it's expected, because of the support of some Tory rebels -- that this bill, to block a no-deal, gets
through. Will the prime minister go down the road of trying to ignore the will of parliament to that degree?
WALKER: Look, what's going on in Downing Street at the moment, is that they are war-gaming all these different scenarios. And both sides in this
are looking at ways of exploiting conventions, parliamentary rules to see what they can do.
As Bianca has said, there are ways around the -- what's rather misleadingly called the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, that could enable them, still, to
force a general election, and they are looking at that at the moment.
But I think it is worth explaining that, yes, Jeremy Corbyn, for years -- for months and weeks now, has been calling for a general election. What
they're worried about --
GORANI: Yes.
WALKER: -- is that if they agree to a general election, which Boris Johnson says it's going to be in the middle of October, on the 14th, that
once he's got that, he'll then change the date so that the U.K. leaves the E.U. without a deal, while parliament is dissolved, while they're in the
middle of a general election campaign.
GORANI: And are we closer? Or -- are we closer to a no-deal Brexit?
NOBILO: No, I don't think we can say that at this time. And the numbers that we see today will indicate whether or not parliament is yet again
prepared to show that it's got a majority against a no-deal.
I think at this point, as well, given that Boris Johnson has lost his majority. So that's really symbolically significant, even though we knew
that he didn't really have a majority for this flagship legislation.
That even if he was somehow -- and it doesn't look likely -- able to avoid a defeat tonight for parliament, taking control of parliamentary business,
it would be something of a pyrrhic victory because from now on, he is hamstrung by the fact that he can't get anything through. So, really, an
election is all they have left.
GORANI: And it's exceptional -- we'll get back, of course, to Bianca and Carole in a moment, but -- it's exceptional here, that you have big-name
Conservative Party members, willing to be ejected from their own party in order to oppose themselves, to stand in opposition to Boris Johnson, the
prime minister, and his plan to potentially take the country out of the E.U. without a deal.
I believe we can go to Nic Robertson at 10 Downing? Correct me if I'm wrong.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Hala, that really seems to be the strength and the feeling of opinion within the Conservative
Party, that there are those in the Conservative Party who believe that the party is making a lurch to the right.
There are those, those rebels, who are willing to stand up and potentially lose their political careers over this scene, the Conservative Party
becoming the Brexit party, it is lurching so far to the right, as one -- as the M.P. who defected today, called it English nationalism and patriotism.
But I think that the reality of what we are potentially seeing in the maneuvering in parliament today, and the difficulty with which we're
having, reading Jeremy Corbyn's intent, he has said that this, the passing of this bill and the blocking of the no-deal Brexit on the 31st of October,
is the priority importance.
However, if he doesn't -- if -- and as Boris Johnson has said, if that is passed and that cuts off his legs at the E.U. for negotiating a Brexit
deal, so there will be a political price to pay for Boris Johnson if Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party do not support the prime minister, if he moves
to call for a general election. Because he would begin to blow in the political wind.
[14:10:20]
He will be stuck, he has said categorically, that he won't be able to negotiate with the E.U. because he will not have that credible threat of a
no-deal Brexit. So there will be a political cost for the prime minister, to be stuck in that position.
Jeremy Corbyn will want to exploit it. He doesn't want to leave it in the hands of the prime minister, when an election would be, because he's afraid
-- as Carole was saying, as Bianca was saying -- because he's afraid that the prime minister could change the date.
Jeremy Corbyn would also be concerned about the support that Labour might get right now. This seems not to be the political moment, though he's
called for an election, he has always said, in his party, that they would call a vote of no-confidence int he government, i.e. moving towards a
general election.
At a moment that they thought it was right and appropriate for them, whereby they could benefit from it. So it appears, at the moment, as if
they would rather see the prime minister blow in the political winds of misfortune for a period, before, perhaps, supporting his call for a general
election, if that's what he does.
GORANI: All right. Nic Robertson at 10 Downing Street, stand by. We'll be getting back to you over the next few hours, Nic.
As we await that crucial vote on stopping a no-deal Brexit, let's hear from a couple of members of parliament, who are both anti-Brexit. Joining me
now are Labour M.P. Ben Bradshaw. Thanks for being with us. Liberal Democrat Layla Moran is also with us.
[00:01:48.09] Layla, I'm going to start with you. You had a defection today --
LAYLA MORAN, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT MEMBER OF BRITISH PARLIAMENT: Yes, we did.
GORANI: -- a Conservative member of parliament dramatically walked across the chamber and sat with the Liberal Democrats. And by doing that, it
meant that the prime minister no longer had a working majority in parliament.
MORAN: Indeed. I didn't know about this until a few hours before. It wasn't entirely surprising. We knew that Dr. Lee was thinking about this
over the summer. And actually, frankly, I was expecting that he might get sort of independent before coming over to us.
So it was actually a great symbolic moment. You know, in the middle of his G7 statement, right before this critical vote, Boris Johnson lost his
majority. And I think he's the first of many, potentially, who might be crossing that (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: Ben Bradshaw, you'll be voting in favor of the legislation tonight?
BEN BRADSHAW, LABOUR MEMBER OF BRITISH PARLIAMENT: I certainly will. Well, we've been in favor of having the debate on the legislation tomorrow.
Tomorrow's --
GORANI: OK.
BRADSHAW: -- the vote on the legislation --
GORANI: OK.
BRADSHAW: -- so we've got to win the votes tonight and tomorrow, these historic votes that are so important for our country.
GORANI: What happens if this bill, if this bill becomes law? And in fact, there is, in the law of the land, of the United Kingdom, legislation to
prevent, to compel the prime minister to ask for a Brexit delay if no deal is reached. What happens?
BRADSHAW: Well, that's then up to him. He might, as you've probably been reporting, try to engineer a general election. I don't think either the
Labour Party or the other opposition parties will fall for that trick --
MORAN: Yes.
BRADSHAW: -- because there's absolutely no guarantee that that election would be before the end of October. He could change the date, he's a very
untrustworthy person. We -- none of us believe a word he says.
So the important thing is that we allow him to stew in the juices of his own making. He needs to own this problem. He's told so many lies in the
last few years and months, he's now got to deliver on the promises. If he can't, maybe a general election but I relish (ph) a general election
against a prime minister who's advocating no-deal because I think we'll win pretty comfortably.
MORAN: No, I would agree with that. I mean, the Liberal Democrats, frankly, are going to do very, very well, whenever a general election
comes. You'd think we'd be the first to be out of traps, wanting one, but the fact is, we are putting the country first.
And it was so obvious, that he was laying a trap for parliament. The fact is, between a general election and a Queen's Speech, the average amount of
time is more than the time we had left before October the 31st. Had we had a general election, even now, there wouldn't be enough time to stop no-
deal. We have to go through with what we're trying to do this week.
GORANI: What do you make of the fact -- and we're seen all over the world, including in the United States, where there have been critics of some, for
instance, Republicans in America, critics of Republicans, saying, "You're not standing up to Donald Trump," who's hijacked the party.
In this case, you have big-name Conservative Party member who are willing to take professional risk to stand up to the prime minister, Boris Johnson.
What's your reaction to that?
MORAN: Well, I think we're beginning to see what we have suspected for a long time, which is a disintegration of the Conservative Party. And let's
see -- I'm glad the Labour Party has pulled it together for this week. But the fact is, if they hadn't, I think they would have faced that, too.
BRADSHAW: Winston Churchill's grandson --
GORANI: Yes.
BRADSHAW: -- is going to vote with us and be shut out of the Conservative Party tonight. That's an extraordinary event. It reminds me of the
important debate we had in 1940 --
GORANI: Yes.
BRADSHAW: -- when Winston Churchill himself stood up to Neville Chamberlain. They issued all sorts of threats against Winston Churchill.
To remove the whip, to stop him standing as a Tory M.P. --
GORANI: Yes.
BRADSHAW: -- I'm seeing an historical parallel. I feel very proud of those brave Conservatives, doing the right thing.
[14:15:00]
GORANI: But, Ben, we're in London. We're in this Westminster bubble. A lot of people -- and a majority in 2016 -- voted to leave the E.U. They
were unequivocal about it, 52 percent. By doing this, are you not going against the will of the people of your country?
BRADSHAW: Well, 51 and a bit to 49 and a bit is not --
GORANI: Well, you're splitting --
BRADSHAW: -- unequivocal, it's not unequivocal --
GORANI: Well, it's still -- it's still a clear a majority. Yes.
BRADSHAW: No deal was never suggested that referendum.
MORAN: Absolutely.
BRADSHAW: People were promised a land of milk and honey, a fantastic deal, a better deal than we have now. That's not what we're now facing. We're
facing what would be a catastrophe for the British economy, for the future of the United Kingdom, Scotland would go independent, Ireland would be
reunited.
GORANI: Yes.
BRADSHAW: This is not what people were promised in the referendum.
GORANI: But let me, Layla, put something to you. When I speak to business leaders, they tell me, "Look, it's not even Brexit. The problem is, this
country is so paralyzed." Some of them are already making contingency plans, whether Brexit happens or not. Is it not better to just rip this
Band-Aid, Brexit and then deal with the situation after?
MORAN: Absolutely not. And especially if it's a no-deal Brexit. I mean, those very same businesses -- I've had -- even independent, local pubs in
my constituency have been writing (ph) to me, saying, "I need tomatoes to do what I do." You know these are big, big, big things that small
businesses are going to have to weather.
But more than that, there is a democratic principal here. Are we genuinely saying that 17.4 million people voted for no-deal? And when we talk about
a people's vote, putting whatever it is, whether it be no deal or a deal, back to the people. We're not saying, "You were wrong." We're saying,
"Are you sure?" And I think there is nothing more democratic than checking with the people.
GORANI: But is there any appetite? I mean, parliament, here, had an opportunity to express itself about the possibility of another referendum -
-
MORAN: And it was the second --
GORANI: -- and they rejected it.
MORAN: -- and it was the second-highest thing that we voted for, absolutely there's appetite.
GORANI: But it didn't -- it didn't pass.
MORAN: Not yet.
GORANI: Yes.
BRADSHAW: Not yet, but I think it's going to be the only way out. Either another referendum or a general election.
Very interestingly, the pound shot up as soon as Boris Johnson lost his majority today. I think that shows you what the markets think about. And
they're -- breathed a sigh of relief, that a no-deal Brexit is being taken off the table.
GORANI: What happens next? I mean, as far as you're concerned, as a Lib Dem M.P., what's your next big challenge?
MORAN: Well, we need to get through this week. You know, this vote tonight, yes, it's always -- we think we've got the numbers, I'm pretty
confident, but you just never know, you never, never know. And with such tight numbers, as we've seen before, every vote counts. But then, tomorrow
is important. And getting it through the Lords will be absolutely critical.
GORANI: Ben, let me ask you, one last one to you. Jeremy Corbyn as a leader is something that is -- having him potentially become prime minister
is what is keeping many centrist Conservatives away from supporting your side. They just cannot fathom the idea of Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister.
Is he the right man to lead your party?
BRADSHAW: If there's a general election, yes. Because that general election will be about, "Do you want a no-deal Brexit or do you want
Remain?" It won't be about Jeremy Corbyn, it'll be about the single biggest issue that our country faces. And I'm confident, the British
people will vote against a no-deal Brexit.
GORANI: Ben Bradshaw and Layla Moran, thanks so much to both of you for being on CNN. We really appreciate it.
After the break, we're keeping our eye on this big story: the Bahamas, an absolute disaster going on there, reeling from Hurricane Dorian. It is
still actually above the island. We'll speak with someone who made the decision to hunker down and ride it out. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:23]
GORANI: All right. We'll get back to the latest on Brexit in a moment. You can probably hear all the ruckus behind me, we have pro-Brexit and
anti-Brexit demonstrators here, on a very critical day in Westminster.
But I want to focus my attention, now, on Hurricane Dorian. it is slowly moving away from the Bahamas, after pounding the island for days. The
hurricane killed at least five people there, and caused some catastrophic flooding and damage, especially in the northern islands.
The prime minister of the Bahamas says this is a historic tragedy. And officials expect the death toll to rise.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI (voice-over): Waves crash against the windows, engulfing what used to be the runway at the Freeport Grand Bahama International Airport.
Travelers are stuck, no flights in or out, because one visitor, Hurricane Dorian, decided to extend its stay.
The powerful storm hovered above the Bahamas for a day and a half, moving only ever so slightly and, all the while, battering the island chain with
dangerous winds and heavy rains.
Thousands of people are trapped in their homes by storm surges at least three to four meters.
MICHAEL PINTARD, BAHAMAS AGRICULTURE MINISTER: That's the water hitting my front window (ph). This is what I'm facing at the moment.
GORANI (voice-over): According to aid agencies, Hurricane Dorian has damaged or destroyed 13,000 homes.
CHRIS PANNERMAN, DORIAN SURVIVOR (via telephone): It feels like something out a movie. When we were trapped in a bathroom, it -- the whole building
was shaking. I was sitting against the wall, and I could feel the pressure entering and pushing the wall on my back.
GORANI (voice-over): For those residents in need of help, it may be a long time coming. Hospitals are flooded, leaving emergency rooms inoperable.
Search-and-rescue missions are under way with the assistance of the U.S. Coast Guard, but the slow-moving storm has limited what they can do.
ERIC JONES, REAR ADMIRAL, U.S. COAST GUARD (via telephone): It's absolutely, you know, catastrophic conditions. What we're seeing with the
hurricane is absolutely overwhelming. And we're obviously getting our rescue crews, that are in the Bahamas, as close as we can to help out.
GORANI (voice-over): These images show exactly what they are up against. This is Grand Bahama Island before Dorian. And this is it now, so much of
the land under water. Forecasters say we've only just begun to see the extent of the damage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, our Patrick Oppmann has been on a boat trip around the islands for a firsthand look at the devastation. He joins me now on the
phone. What did you see, Patrick?
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, we had a very hard time driving around the island. So many streets now are either
rivers, or still blocked by submerged cars.
But we did get out to the eastern part of the city of Freeport, to a bridge that is half-covered by water and is now being used, sort of, as a staging
point for people who are bringing their boats and their jet skis to go rescue people in the community that is completely under water. There's a
large section of this island -- and there are probably other sections, too, that we just can't reach -- that are completely under water. And the
people out there have no way to get back to safety.
And so we saw regular Bahamians, probably 50 different people, who had showed up either to go out in the boats, or brought their jet skis and
their small boats to this area, and they were going back and forth, bearing people in, people that could -- I mean rescuing.
We talked to a number of people who were just completely exhausted and wiped out, they'd been either hiding in their homes, in the attics, or on
top of the roofs. We talked to one man who was rescued, but his wife had died. He said she had drowned in front of him. He was still hoping to
recover her body.
We talked to other people who said that they'd gone and rescued family members, or that other people in their families had been taken away by the
water and were missing.
So it's a very chaotic scene. It's an incredible scene, to see people coming together despite the conditions, because we are still being impacted
by tropical storm-force and hurricane winds. While we were there, we were getting blown around. We heard that a lot of people have gone out, had had
trouble and some of the boats had flipped, and some of the jet skis had flipped while on these rescue missions.
[14:25:05]
So it is a very dangerous and harrowing mission for these people, to go and try to rescue their friends and neighbors and fellow Bahamians. But no one
else is doing it at this point. And for so many people, out on these homes, time is just running out. They are in danger. They've run out of
food, out of water. And no one else is coming.
So this is still going on, it will probably go on into tomorrow and afterwards, until a more organized rescue mission could be mounted. But I
was old by one of these boat captains that's gone out, back and forth several times, and he believes there'll still be hundreds of people,
trapped out in these houses that are completely flooded.
GORANI: Right. Well, Patrick Oppmann, thanks very much for that report. It gives us a sense of, really, of how many people are still in harm's way,
waiting for rescue in their attics, maybe standing, even, on their rooftops.
With Patrick, they're relaying to us a very sad story of a husband whose wife drowned in front of him, hoping to recover her body. So we're going
to keep our eye on that.
And I want to speak with Michael Hynes. He's riding out the hurricane in his office in Freeport, on Grand Bahama Island. Michael, can you hear me?
MICHAEL HYNES, BAHAMAS STORM SURVIVOR: Yes, Hala, I'm here. I can hear you.
GORANI: Yes. Talk to me about what's going on where you are.
HYNES: Well, we're getting -- we're still getting hammered for about 46 hours straight. So we're basically just riding it out.
GORANI: And what's happening outside your -- is that your office or your home?
HYNES: Yes. It's --
GORANI: What's going on outside when you look out the window?
HYNES: Oh, I'm not sure if you guys have that livestream. I've been livestreaming the outside view, looking west. I was looking at the
Freeport Harbor side.
And then we have the other side, the east side, where you see basically everything else -- everything towards the airport, basically, you know,
Lucaya area, and that's all flooded. It's all under water.
I mean, this morning, just we (ph) woke up before the big rains, and you could see -- we could just -- we could see far away. And basically,
everything was still under water even though the water had receded, everything was just flooded and the water has nowhere to do. Right now --
GORANI: Are you able to -- are you able to leave -- sorry, go on.
HYNES: Weird bands are coming in and it's started to flood the harbor area a little bit, like it did with Matthew.
But your next question, we are not able to leave because the bridge that connects here, our office, to downtown Freeport, has basically been
compromised. And there's nowhere -- there's no way we could take a care through that.
We do have a boat here, but right now, it's just too rough to do anything. And we do have a lot of friends, trying to rescue people. We'd like to
join them but there's no way for us to do anything, right --
GORANI: Yes.
HYNES: -- because of that bridge.
GORANI: And regarding electricity, water. I mean, for the amount of time that you're going to have to stay where you are, do you have what you need?
HYNES: Yes. Our generator, basically a generator that can operate a whole -- like, a container ship, almost. And it can last about four days.
And we just went to fill it up this morning because it had calmed down, but the winds picked up again, so. But we're good for a good four days, so. I
mean, it's going to (INAUDIBLE) the storm be gone by the time we need to fill up again.
We have no running water. Since day one , they shut it off automatically, I mean, manually at 7:00 p.m. Sunday. We have a lot of water.
GORANI: All right. Michael Hynes, thanks so much. Good luck to you, going forward. I see you have your dog there with you, and you're all safe,
which is all that matters. Good luck to you, going forward.
[14:29:20]
We'll get back to the hurricane a little bit later. And after the break, we're going to update you on our stop story. When we return, the Brexit
battle rages on in parliament. We'll hear what the E.U. thinks of it all, in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:56]
GORANI: We're back from outside the Houses of Parliament here in London as we follow the extraordinary events today inside parliament. And they are
those events, of course, surrounding Brexit. A debate is happening right now on whether M.P.s can seize control of parliament to try to block a no-
deal Brexit. A vote on that could happen tomorrow.
If it passes, Prime Minister Boris Johnson may try to trigger a general election.
By the way, you may be having trouble hearing me, because behind me, there is a big loud protest going on. We have both pro-Brexit, but mainly anti-
Brexit, anti-Boris Johnson and his decision to suspend parliament.
Many of the protesters behind me and there's a march also materializing amongst those who have gathered outside Westminster, chanting "stop the
coup, stop the coup." This is in relation to Boris Johnson's decision to suspend parliament, giving MPs less time to debate a Brexit bill, and less
time to potentially block a no-deal Brexit.
Craig Dillon was Boris Johnson's digital strategy advisor during his leadership campaign this year, and he's here with me.
CRAIG DILLON, BORIS JOHNSON'S DIGITAL STRATEGY ADVISER DURING LEADERSHIP CAMPAIGN: Hi.
GORANI: So what is -- what is the strategy for Boris Johnson right now?
DILLON: It's a very tough time in parliament at the moment. We'd agreed on what's happening next. The problem is, is that a lot of M.P.s in there
don't want a no-deal Brexit, but they also don't want an election.
GORANI: Right.
DILLON: So we're trying to figure out what's going to happen next on that.
And also the other thing of this is that the majority, the public do not want an election. So if we do another elections, it'd be very, very tough
to get those votes.
GORANI: Right. And the majority of the public doesn't want no-deal either, even if the majority voted for Brexit, they didn't necessarily vote
for this type of Brexit.
DILLON: That's true. But what we've seen across the country and then these people are just getting sick of it, and a lot of people now are just
saying they just want it done. And actually, what they care about the issues that affect them day to day those hospitals, police, education.
That's what they want their politicians be dealing with, not rehashing arguments over and over and over again.
GORANI: Yes. A hard Brexit will impact all of those things for them. The NHS is not staffed with a lot of E.U. doctors and nurses. You also have an
economy that suffered in the last quarter. It actually contracted by 0.2 percent, that hasn't happened in years in Britain.
This Brexit issue doesn't -- it's just not some nebulous thing that's have ring above the country. It also impacts people's lives daily.
DILLON: Yes. I think also a big part of that is that it's the -- nobody knows what's going to happen. So a big problem is that people need
certainty. So a lot of investments stopped, a lot of things -- if we did have sorted this, you know, maybe a year ago, I think we'd be in a much
different situation, so.
GORANI: But do you think -- the issue that M.P.s have with Boris Johnson is they just don't trust the man. He's lied in the past, he lied during
the Brexit campaign about the 350 million pounds. This is somebody who is just not trustworthy to many people. And that's a big hurdle to overcome.
If you're going to try to convince people to do something very dramatic.
DILLON: Yes. But I think also a lot of people I've seen, especially since he's been elected, that actually he's started to stoke out the right things
that certainly resonates a lot of people. Increasing the police is really working on the ground, and that is what actual people care about.
So he hasn't come on and said, you know, I'm going to be a Brexit prime minister. He said, we've got to deal with Brexit and then solve the
problems that this country is facing, so.
[14:35:09]
GORANI: Is he going to succeed, do you think? You've been --
DILLON: If there is an election.
GORANI: If there's an election.
DILLON: Absolutely.
GORANI: Is it a gamble though?
DILLON: It's a big gamble. We saw that happening on Theresa May went in last time with an election, and that changed very, very quickly.
GORANI: Yes. That was a bad move.
DILLON: So we -- exactly. So we never know what's going to happen, but I absolutely think out of -- if it was out of the two candidates, Jeremy
Corbyn and Boris Johnson, I think there's a much better sort of section in the public, I think would do much better.
GORANI: But he still has very big name Conservative Party members saying, I won't stand for this. I will actually -- I will actually - I'll get
thrown out of the party if it means I will stand an opposition to Boris Johnson in this point.
DILLON: What we've seen with a lot of those people is that people in their constituencies are voting -- are giving no confidence votes on those
people. They have not really represented the views of their constituents. We have a lot of M.P.s now that are crossing the floor and have, you know,
lost a lot of things now.
But actually, what's happening is that people that they voted for them to elect, which you forget in 2017, everyone stood on a manifesto to deliver
Brexit. So now that they sort of changed their mind and all going to different things is, is not really working for a lot of people.
GORANI: What's happening now do you think at 10 Downing Street? I mean, having worked in strategy teams in the last campaign that -- race that
Boris Johnson fought which was for the leadership of the conservative property. What calculations are being made do you think?
DILLON: Well, a lot of this stuff has already been. Because this has always been a bit of an option. So a lot of this stuff has already been
prepared, which is why we saw those things about, you know, the police, NHS, all of those issues.
So they've already sort of, you know, start that stress. We can imagine if an election was good, the issues they're going to go hard on again are
police NHS, Education, infrastructure as well. So that's what they're already sort of aligned those up, which is interesting because if you look
at the opposition parties, it don't really have that.
What they're arguing is, oh, we just sort of remain. I imagine what would happen is an election will be forced on -- we're going to deliver Brexit,
but actually we want to do this, this, this. So that seems to be the strategy there.
GORANI: Well, some in the opposition aren't necessarily saying, we want a remain. They're saying, we don't want to harm our country and our economy
with a no-deal. It's not necessarily the same thing.
DILLON: Of course. And we can bring on (INAUDIBLE) and, obviously, there is a lot of uncertainty around no-deal. And no one really knows what would
happen.
But what we do know is that the majority of the people, and especially, we go out in constituencies and talk to a lot of M.P.s, a lot of -- the public
are very, very tired of this. And they do not want another extension.
GORANI: Craig Dillon, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.
Is the European Union reacting, at all, to all this British parliament drama? Nina dos Santos is in Brussels. Nina, what are you hearing?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Hala. Well, we're not hearing very much. In fact, the silence has been deafening here
on the E.U. side. And there's a reason for that, is because on the one hand, now, they know that Boris Johnson has lost his majority. They don't
even know whether it's really worth negotiating with him.
On the other hand, they're all also in wait and see mode to see, whether or not, this particular motion, and then bill will go forward, whether the
government will be defeated, and whether Boris Johnson will have to come back to the E.U. copping hand and ask for a delay to Brexit. Yes, another
delay. This time if those rebels ought to be satisfied that we now know would be until January the 31st of early next year.
Between now and then, there's another big E.U. summit that's taking place and the E.U. preparations for that well underway in the building behind me
in the European Commission. So far as Brexit goes, well, their wording here is basically the same as it's always been.
Now, door is always open, but please, come to us with concrete proposals when it comes to reopening that withdrawal agreement and taking out the
backstop, that, as we know, over the weekend, because the E.U.'s chief negotiator, from the commissioner, Michel Barnier, wrote this in a euro
skeptic newspaper, that type of negotiating strategy Boris Johnson is, best far, employed, really isn't going to work. These things are not up for
wholesale renegotiation.
In the meantime, Hala, what we do know is that the E.U. is already starting to make way for some big no-deal preparations of their own. Yesterday, we
saw the first of two meetings that are taken place at senior level this week to try and unlock emergency funding that could be granted to E.U.
state, to try and mitigate the effects of a no-deal Brexit.
These are the types of funds that are usually used for natural disasters. And all the while, in the background, the biweekly talks between the U.K.
diplomats and the E.U. side is still going on. But really, people are asking themselves, what are they talking about and are they really managing
to make any so-called progress in these negotiations? Hala.
GORANI: All right. Nina, thanks very much.
I'd like to bring in Alexandra Phillips, a Brexit Party and MEP, Member of the European Parliament for South East England. Welcome. Thanks for being
with us.
ALEXANDRA PHILLIPS, MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT, SOUTH EAST ENGLAND: Thank you.
GORANI: You needed a police escort into College Green today?
PHILLIPS: Yes. I mean, can you hear them behind you? And, you know, it's so weird. We seem to be living in a parallel universe. The people who
voted to leave the E.U., they are given that choice and they said, yes, we want to, that democratic exercise is being thwarted. Yet, the people
calling "coup, coup" and chanting, and attacking people, and they come do interviews --
[14:40:12]
GORANI: Are they attacking you?
PHILLIPS: They harass you very much. They get into your personal space.
GORANI: Has it happened to you in the past?
PHILIPPS: Not as bad as today. I've been sworn (INAUDIBLE), that's a hell of a loss. And I get incredible abuse on Twitter. But what's so bizarre -
-
GORANI: Although, who doesn't, Alexandra?
PHILLIPS: But what's bizarre is you would think that they were the ones who voted leave and then finding that Brexit is not being delivered, but
they are the ones who are supporting --
GORANI: I get that. I understand that. But in 2016, people voted for Brexit, they didn't vote for no-deal. Why not give people an opportunity
to weigh in? But we say because it's sure. Why not give an opportunity -- people an opportunity to weigh on what kind of Brexit they get? Why is
that in democratic?
PHILLIPS: I think the difficulty is here. When we voted to leave, it was very clear on both sides of the debate and both campaigns that what we
wanted to do is leave the custom unions, the single market and jurisdiction of the European Courts of Justice. And actually, the withdrawal agreement
of Theresa May brought back in Brussels didn't deliver on any of those things.
And what's happened three years later is the clock is now down, and only way we can leave because the deal didn't get through parliament is just to
get out. But again, there was nothing on the ballot that suggested that people were voting for Brexit to leave the Customs Union and the common
market and --
PHILLIPS: No. The power is very simple.
GORANI: It was a yes or no.
PHILLIPS: You want to stay or leave. Every campaign, the remain campaign said, leaving would mean leaving these things. And the leave campaign
said, leaving would also mean leaving those things.
GORANI: So where does that leave us now? What's wrong with parliament saying to Boris Johnson? Listen, we don't want to commit economic suicide
by leaving without a deal. We're going to compel you to ask for an extension until January if you can't come up with some sort of agreement.
What's wrong with that?
PHILLIPS: OK. First of all, I don't, for one minute, think it'd be economic suicide if we left without a deal. I think a whole lot of these
scare stories have been completely fabricated. They're getting lots of conflicting reports on covering a number of issues. And it's actually
within the whip and the will of both the U.K. parliament and the European Union to protect people from any possible (INAUDIBLE)
And I think there's a great deal of advancement when it comes to contingency planning. So I don't think leaving without a deal would cause
this guy to fall in or economic collapse or anything of the kind. In fact, I would argue remaining in the E.U., well Germany's manufacturing goes into
recession, while Italy's banking is on thin ice, that puts Britain a great risk of actually of being an independent nation.
And one thing I'd like to say, actually, for viewers back at home, wherever they may be, let's say American viewers. If you were to ask an American
viewer, would you be happy for the United States of America to have complete free movement, with all of the neighboring countries and the
countries besides America, not be able to your own trade deals, have an elected executive of supremacy over your course of law? I don't think many
people left all right --
GORANI: I don't want to litigate that point. But you know full well that the U.S. is the largest economy in the world. That having free movement of
people between Mexico and Canada is not something that was ever in the cards. The U.K. is in the E.U. benefited economically from the E.U. and
benefited from --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: (INAUDIBLE) benefited economically.
GORANI: Immigration has, in fact, added to economic growth in this country.
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: In other words, put in more than they take out. But you know this to be true.
PHILLIPS: It deviates very different. And actually, what we've seen is blue collar work is especially massively affected by the free movements of
people. But the labor market is being undercut. It's massively driven down wages. So no, we haven't benefited economically.
GORANI: The country has a benefited.
PHILLIPS: The E.U. has benefited, economically, from us. Our economy is the same size as 19 E.U. member states. We pay massive contribution.
GORANI: But smaller than Germany.
PHILLIPS: Yes, smaller than Germany but we're still a G5 nation. We have benefited European Union, in fact. When you look at how many times we've
bailed out, there are terrible single currency.
We were told if we join that -- didn't join that currency, our economy would flat line, the opposite is true. The sterling -- the (INAUDIBLE) has
strengthen, at the moment, yes, with all of this disruption, it's wavering and it's having difficulties.
But actually, being a self-governing nation, gives you the independence and the flexibility to manage your own future, to be the sole author of your
own destiny. Being in the E.U. shackles us to a far greater risk than actually if we stand alone, and actually, for the first time in
generations, be able to say to countries like America to countries in the commonwealth, we want to a close relationship with you, we want to trade
with you, we want to stand shoulder to shoulder with you (INAUDIBLE) protection is blocked.
GORANI: All right. Well, Alexandra Phillips, a Brexit Party MEP for the South East of England, thanks very much. I hope you're fine there. You
don't get too many jeers on your way.
PHILLIPS: I hope so too.
GORANI: But, you know, people in your country, a huge number of people disagree with you.
PHILLIPS: Right.
GORANI: And this is a country divided.
PHILLIPS: It is --
GORANI: And you have a lot of work to get this country back together.
PHILLIPS: I know. And, you know, I think it's the prevarication and not delivering Brexit, which has concretized people on both sides of the
debate, and actually really open those wounds and made those divisions much worse.
[14:45:59]
If it had been a legally binding referendum and if the U.K. had left a year after to that, none of this would be the situation.
GORANI: Alexandra Phillips, thanks so much for joining us.
Still to come tonight, we keep our eye on that other very important story. Hurricane Dorian leaving some devastation behind in the Bahamas. We have
an update, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: An update now on hurricane Dorian. The core of the storm is finally moving away from the Bahamas. Dorian is leaving tremendous
devastation behind. It moves so slowly, less than 50 kilometers in 30 hours that it had time to dump 76 centimeters of rain in some places.
Some people were able to wave to safety through waist deep water. Others are trapped on rooves or attics and continued strong winds are making it
difficult to reach them. At least five deaths have been reported. And the concern is that the death toll will rise.
Hurricane Dorian is now moving toward the U.S. East Coast. Let's get the latest from meteorologist, Allison Chinchar.
Where is the hurricane now, Allison?
ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's finally starting to exit the Bahamas. But remember, the forward speed of this storm is not very fast at
all. So it's going to take time before the Bahamas finally see an end to the storm.
Here's a look at what we know. The winds right now, currently, 175 kilometers per hour. It is still a category two storm. But look at this,
northwest at eight kilometers per hour. We're finally getting some movement.
Remember, much of yesterday, the storm was stationary over the Bahamas. Now, again, it's still moving slow. So we still have very strong winds and
very heavy rain bands across portions of the Bahamas. But now, it will start to exit, get into that Gulf Stream and began to make its way up
towards the United States.
The question is, will there be a technical landfall somewhere in the United States? Regardless of that, states like Florida, Georgia, South Carolina,
and North Carolina, are all expecting impacts from the storm, including very strong wind gust, very heavy rain, as well as storm surge.
We have hurricane warnings watches, as well as tropical storm warnings and watches, in effect for all four of those states that I just mentioned. So
if you have any travel plans or whatsoever across any of those states, please check with your airline carriers, because several airports are
closed and many others are dealing with significant cancellations and delays as well.
GORANI: All right. Allison, thanks very much.
Let's turn to Miguel Marquez. He's in Vero Beach, Florida.
Miguel, what's happening where you are?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what is amazing here, Hala, is that they have just lifted the mandatory evacuation for Indian
River County and Vero Beach, where we are, but the conditions have before been worse.
In the last 24 hours, right now, are the worst conditions we are experiencing. Officials think this will be the worst of it. I mean, these
are the seas right now. This is the Atlantic. That storm still a long way off, as you can see the power of that storm here.
I want to show you the losses here. Not only in the Bahamas but in ways big and small here as well. They love their turtles here. This is turtle
nesting season. It's a turtle protecting -- protected area. These are eggs. These eggs are now loitering the beaches here, because all of the
nests had been disrupted.
[14:50:18]
This is -- take a look at this. In the last 12 hours or so, several feet of the beach here have just completely disappeared, being washed away
slowly by these -- by these waves. The beach is so important to Florida, so much a part of life here are suffering greatly.
Evacuation orders are lifted for this area right now. People can return to their homes. A lot of people are already coming out of their home to the
beach to see what's going on. But authorities saying, there could be water spouts that -- or spun off of the storm. There could be hurricanes inland,
there are spun off of the storm. So be very, very careful in the hours ahead. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Miguel Marquez, thanks very much. Rough weather already there for Miguel and our teams spanned out across Florida.
Coming up on the show, more special Brexit coverage. We've heard from the politicians, when we come back, we'll hear from the people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, in our final few minutes tonight, we want to give you up to date on what has happened and what will happen next in the battle over
Brexit.
In the next hour or so, we expect M.P.s to vote on whether they can take control of the parliamentary agenda from Boris Johnson's government.
Now, if that succeeds, the plan is to vote tomorrow on whether to force Mr. Johnson to ask for yet another Brexit delay, essentially taking a no-deal
Brexit off the table.
Mr. Johnson says he needs the threat of no-deal to get a better deal. And he says, even if a no-deal happens, it would not be that bad for Britain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: As I said on the steps of Downing Street, I think there would be -- there'll be bumps on the road. But this
is a very great country and a very great economy and we will get it done.
And I'm afraid the most fatal thing to getting a deal, is for this country to show that it is so apprehensive about coming out on other terms as to
accept anything but the E.U. prescribes. And that is, I'm afraid, the course down which the right honorable gentleman opposite is beckoning us to
go. And I think that will be a disaster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's bring in Anna Stewart. She's in the coastal down of - - coastal town of Clacton-on-Sea. A place that voted to leave the E.U. What are people saying there, Anna?
ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, speaking today, Hala, to them, you know, 69.5 percent of people voted to leave in 2016. And more
recently in those European parliamentary elections, there was a big vote for Brexit Party here. That's a newly formed party led by Nigel Farage.
So sentiments hasn't really shifted.
Generally speaking, the people I spoke to today on both sides, there are few remainers, of course, here as well. But they all say that they're,
frankly, fed up with the process and most people here that I've spoken to would much rather have a no-deal Brexit than any kind of delay that's been
discussed in parliament right now. Take a listen to what the people of Clacton-on-Sea had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's horrible acts. I just think we need to get on with it. Get out.
STEWART: How has Boris Johnson do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's been doing a good job for making get us out on the 31st.
[14:55:02]
STEWART: Would you rather have a no-deal or a delay?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A no-deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Id' rather leave without a deal. I think the U.K. can stand on its own. We might have a few hiccups. But term, yes, I think
we can.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEWART: Interesting, Hala, when I spoke to people about how they think the prime minister is doing, I'd say most of the people I spoke to today,
think Boris Johnson is doing a good job. Speaking to people, though, about the potential for a general election, how would they vote next, so much
confusion, because even people that think Boris Johnson is doing a good job, don't believe the conservative party have delivered Brexit as they
should have done in recent years.
A lot of them don't support Labour because they haven't helped support Brexit as well, which leaves all these French parties' will the Brexit
Party to live (INAUDIBLE) possibly given how well they did in the European elections.
But interestingly, the real surprise for me was having done a few of these trips around the U.K. in the last year or two is how people here are now
very tuned in to every twist and turn of Brexit and parliament today. They are really tuned in, very, very interested. Is it the Boris Johnson's
celebrity effect? Is it just because what's coming down to the wire? I'm not sure. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Anna Stewart, thanks very much. Well, that wraps it up for this hour. Before I leave you. It is -- there's a lot going on today,
outside Westminster. There are some pro-Brexit demonstrators, but really the vast majority of the people behind me are chanting and have been for
hours "stop the coup."
They are unhappy with Boris Johnson's decision to suspend parliament, reducing the amount of time M.P.s have to block a no-deal Brexit and they
are also unhappy with the idea that no-deal Brexit is even on the table. They very much believe that this will be damaging.
A lot happened today that was momentous including some big name conservatives who have stood an opposition to this government.
I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. Richard is here outside Westminster.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
