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Hala Gorani Tonight
Trump Publicly Urges Ukraine And China To Investigate Bidens; Protests In Iraq Continue For Third Day; Boris Johnson Unveils Brexit Plan; Ex-Diplomat Testifies As First Witness In Ukraine Probe; Four People Killed In Knife Attack At Paris Police HQ; Ex-Policewoman Sentenced To 10 Years In Prison For Murder; Japanese Company Streamlines Recycling Of Plastic Bottles. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 03, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:20]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight on CNN, Donald Trump calls on China and Ukraine to investigate his political opponent Joe Biden. But this time, there are no rough
transcripts or whistleblowers. He said it all, publicly, on the White House lawn.
Then, Iraq on fire and it's not the only Middle Eastern country seeing massive protests. Could this be the beginning of a second Arab Spring?
And, later, four dead in Paris: how an attacker managed to do so much damage inside a police station. We're live in the French capital.
He's already facing an impeachment inquiry for pressuring a foreign country, behind the scenes, to investigate a political rival. Well, Donald
Trump is now doing it again, but this time, in plain sight.
We begin with extraordinary remarks that once would have seemed unthinkable for a U.S. president. Listen to Mr. Trump, first calling on Ukraine and
then on China to investigate Joe Biden and his son.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I would think that if they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into the
Bidens. It's a very simple answer. They should investigate the Bidens. Because how does a company that's newly formed, and all these companies, if
you look -- and, by the way, likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened to China is just about as bad as
what happened with -- with Ukraine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Those stunning remarks come on a big day in the impeachment investigation. The first witness is testifying behind closed doors before
three House committees. Former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volker resigned last week after his name appeared in that whistleblower complaint
that sparked it all.
TEXT: Impeachment inquiry: Kurt Volker, first witness called by House committees, testifies behind closed doors. Sources: dozens of pages of
documents sent to Capitol Hill ahead of deposition. Trump escalates attacks on lead investigator Adam Schiff
GORANI: Sources say dozens of pages of documents were delivered to those committees before his deposition, indicating there may be some kind of
paper trail here.
President Trump, meantime, is escalating his attacks on the lead investigator without any evidence. He's now accusing House Intelligence
Chairman Adam Schiff of conspiring with the whistleblower to write the complaint. No evidence of this.
And, also, no evidence on any level of wrongdoing by the son of former Vice President Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, who worked in Ukraine and was a member
of that board on that energy company.
White House reporter Stephen Collinson says Mr. Trump's, quote, "unleashed fury, fact-bending rants and persecution complex are conjuring an image of
someone seeing his presidency slipping through his hands." Stephen joins me now, live from Washington.
Talk to us a little bit about what the president said on the White House lawn, calling on another foreign country to investigate his political rival
in the United States.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right, Hala. By involving China, here, and calling on China to investigate the Biden, President Trump
is effectively asking the American people the question, is something impeachable if it happens in public?
What he's trying to do is to normalize his own behavior, the behavior that you mentioned that was behind the scenes with Ukraine, by saying, look, I'm
out here, I'm calling on a foreign government to investigate an opponent, and there's nothing wrong with this.
He's giving a line of defense to his conservative media friends and any Republican lawmakers who want to come to his support. What we're seeing is
clearly -- and we also saw Mike Pence, the vice president, come out and repeat the president's conspiracy theories about the Bidens today.
What we're seeing is a clear turn from a White House which has struggled, in recent days, to catch up with the speed of the Democratic impeachment
machine, this is their strategy. They're coming out and embracing it publicly and daring the Democrats to respond.
GORANI: You mentioned Mike Pence, the vice president. Just minutes ago, he was asked about this. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We focused entirely, in my meeting with President Zelensky of Ukraine, on the issues that President
Trump had raised as a concern. Namely, a lack of support from European partners for Ukraine and real issues of corruption in Ukraine.
The American people have every right to ensure that when we're investing hundreds of millions of dollars to support the territorial integrity and
the sovereignty and the security of Ukraine, that those dollars are being spent in a way that's honest and represents a government free of
corruption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This is the narrative, Stephen, that the White House is trying to push, that this was all about corruption. But we saw the rough transcript
of that call, and other conclusions were drawn, certainly, by other people in Washington and beyond.
[14:05:10]
COLLINSON: Right. I mean, the idea that President Donald Trump, of all people, has suddenly become this global crusader against corruption,
doesn't really pass the smell test to start with.
But what you're seeing here is the White House trying to overwhelm, in the public mind, the impact of that transcript -- which clearly shows the
president pressuring the president of Ukraine -- by introducing new rabbit holes and conspiracy theories.
You know, Mike Pence, a few years ago, used to be a fairly down-the-line conservative congressman. When he joined the Trump campaign, he made a
choice. And that was to be ultimately loyal to President Donald Trump.
Pence, we believe, has political ambitions for the presidency himself, after the Trump presidency. He therefore needs Trump supporters. And any
show of disloyalty will not just hurt him with them, but with the president himself. So Pence has made a clear political calculation, and that is what
we're seeing playing out in those remarks.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Stephen Collinson. We'll be going live to Capitol Hill in just a few minutes for more on the testimony behind
closed doors of Kurt Volker, who was the U.S. representative to Ukraine, who stepped down after the revelations that a whistleblower filed a
complaint in the intelligence community, about -- sparked by a phone call that the U.S. president had with President Zelensky of Ukraine.
So the U.S. president today, coming right out and bluntly urging two foreign governments -- Ukraine and now China -- to investigate his
political rival, Joe Biden, and Biden's son, Hunter.
Now, incredibly, that's what we're seeing play out in real time. We're also getting a good look at Donald Trump in full fury mode, no holds
barred: yelling, stonewalling, deflecting as well. Just look at this moment from his news conference with the Finnish president on Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: The question, sir, was what did you want President Zelensky to do about Vice President Biden and
his son, Hunter?
TRUMP: Are you talking to me?
(CROSSTALK)
MASON: Yes, it was just a follow-up of what I just asked you, sir.
TRUMP: Listen, listen. You ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question.
MASON: I have one for him, I just wanted to follow up on the one that I asked you, which was --
TRUMP: Did you hear me?
MASON: -- what did you want --
TRUMP: Did you hear me?
MASON: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: Ask him a question.
MASON: I will, but --
TRUMP: I've given you a long answer, ask this gentleman a question. Don't be rude.
MASON: No, sir, I don't want to be rude. I just wanted you to have a chance to answer the question that I asked you.
TRUMP: I've answered everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. There's little sign that Republican support for President Trump is fading, though. The House Republican leader is even
demanding the ongoing impeachment inquiry, led by Democrats, be suspended until rules and procedures are established.
Still, outside of the president's core of staunch loyalists, there has been radio silence from many top Republican lawmakers, and one has to wonder
why. Greg Swenson joins me now. He's the founding partner of Brigg Macadam.
You're a Republican.
GREG SWENSON, FOUNDING PARTNER, BRIGG MACADAM: Yes.
GORANI: What's your take on what the president has been doing and saying, the last few days, since this impeachment inquiry began?
SWENSON: I think -- you know, a couple of points that we have to keep in mind. The (ph) president isn't acting that much differently than he
normally does. You know, if you want to see some outrageous comments from the president, you don't really have to have a congressional inquiry or a
whistleblower, you can just go to his Twitter feed, so --
GORANI: Right.
SWENSON: Now, granted, yesterday, I think, he was particularly animated, to say the least.
GORANI: But the circumstances are different --
SWENSON: Oh, of course, yes.
GORANI: -- very different.
SWENSON: And I think you would -- you know, what you're seeing is that there is some movement in the polling in terms of, you know, people that
are favoring impeachment. You know, it moved from -- in Quinnipiac, from 37 for -- you know, up to 47, roughly 10 points. And CNN was up six or
seven points, also to 47.
But remember, the people that have actually shifted their views are mostly Trump -- you know, Trump haters or staunch Democrats that, prior to last
week, were opposing the impeachment, not because they liked the president, but they opposed it because they just didn't think that impeachment would
work --
GORANI: No, but even among Republicans --
SWENSON: -- it was a good idea.
GORANI: -- there was a CBS YouGov poll that suggested that more Republicans are now at least open to the idea of this inquiry, because they
want to learn more about the Ukraine story.
SWENSON: Possibly (ph). You know, I think it's -- it's --
GORANI: They're -- but by a significant number of percentage points.
SWENSON: Sure, but I think that the Republicans against impeachment right now are still hanging in --
GORANI: Sure.
SWENSON: -- and that hasn't moved very much.
GORANI: There's no suggestion that a majority of Republicans --
SWENSON: Yes.
GORANI: -- would favor this, not at all.
SWENSON: Right, of course.
GORANI: But I need to ask you a little bit about the call on the White House lawn, for China to investigate Biden. What do you make of that? As
a Republican, as an American.
SWENSON: Right. No, of course. I mean, look, we all wish the president would use a filter more, you know? He has a problem with moving around,
changing topics, being a bit too animated. Now, that's one of the reasons he was elected, because he is --
GORANI: But this is not about the style.
SWENSON: Yes.
GORANI: This is not about form, this is about the content of what he's saying.
[14:10:00]
SWENSON: Sure. I mean, look, he's been calling for investigations based on the fact that he felt he -- you know, that there was a witch hunt during
the -- basically, during the last three -- you know, three years. So the first two and a half years of his presidency.
So he's trying to get back to the -- to 2016, Russia and Mueller investigation, get to the facts of that. And it just so happens that the
Biden -- Joe and Hunter Biden thing is sort of piled onto it.
So now, he's making it personal --
GORANI: But, sorry, Greg, let me just --
SWENSON: -- which is not --
GORANI: -- I need to -- I need to ask you this.
SWENSON: Sure.
GORANI: He's asking China to investigate Biden.
SWENSON: Right.
GORANI: This is not the 2016 investigation --
SWENSON: Yes.
GORANI: -- it's not a beef with the Mueller report --
SWENSON: Right.
GORANI: -- or his methods.
SWENSON: It's --
GORANI: This is about calling on the repressive regime of China to investigate an American politician --
SWENSON: Yes.
GORANI: -- inside his own country.
SWENSON: With this president, everything is personal. And --
GORANI: Right.
SWENSON: -- what he's doing is, he's grouping the two together because Hunter Biden, in addition to going to Ukraine with his father, he also went
to China with his father. So that's --
GORANI: And no suggestion there was any wrongdoing there.
SWENSON: Yes. No, not at all. No --
GORANI: Legally, he did nothing wrong.
SWENSON: -- and I think what he's trying to get at is not necessarily that there was formal wrongdoing, it's just that it looked unseemly or it looked
like there might be --
GORANI: But you're still, Greg, not answering the question. Are you not shocked that the president of the United States is asking China to
investigate an American politician?
SWENSON: I'm not shocked at anything this president does.
GORANI: Do you think it's right?
SWENSON: He is not --
GORANI: Do you think it's right for him to make that call on the White House lawn?
SWENSON: I think he should be a little bit -- he should dial it down --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: But yes or no on that question, if I may? Do you think it's right for him to call on China to investigate Biden?
SWENSON: Well, I think he has every right to investigate his political opponents --
GORANI: On China, to investigate? Not for him to look into.
SWENSON: Well, I think there was some -- there was --
GORANI: Or to raise questions.
SWENSON: Yes. I mean, I'm not sure I can answer that question without understanding exactly what happened in China, when Hunter Biden went to
China. So if that's what the president's trying to, you know, to find out, then good for him. I mean, I think he has that right --
GORANI: So you think good for him, for asking China to ask --
SWENSON: No, I don't think -- I think this whole thing is rather unpleasant.
GORANI: Right.
SWENSON: I don't think -- I don't think that the president should be that animated about any of this. But I would also argue, the president has not
been treated very fairly on this whole Ukraine, you know, situation. So I think he's being a little defensive, perhaps a little bit too much.
GORANI: Why wasn't he treated fairly?
SWENSON: Well, I thought -- I mean, look -- you can --
GORANI: You think there's nothing wrong with saying to the president of Ukraine, I need to ask you a favor, right after he was talking about
welling weapons to Ukraine? I need to ask you a favor, I need you to look into Biden?
(CROSSTALK)
SWENSON: Well, sure, there is a -- but there is a -- remember, there was a 540-word gap between him asking a favor about investigating the 2016
election problems, and the casual mention of the Bidens at the end. It was a fairly big gap. He didn't ask a -- he didn't say, I need to ask you a
favor, investigate the Bidens or drum up some dirt on the Bidens. Although the press often said it that way --
GORANI: Although according to the rough transcript --
SWENSON: -- but that's not exactly what happened, yes.
GORANI: -- those two things followed each other in the call. But we don't have a word-for-word transcription --
SWENSON: Right, right.
GORANI: -- here, even though the president said there was a stenographer, we have not seen a word-for-word transcription of the call.
Greg Swenson, thanks so much for joining us.
SWENSON: Always good to be here.
GORANI: Always, thank you very much.
SWENSON: Thank you.
GORANI: So we were talking about the U.S. envoy to Ukraine, his resignation. Well, he is -- Kurt Volker -- now appearing on Capitol Hill.
There are some closed hearings. His testimony could be so important that it could certainly have an impact on this impeachment inquiry.
TEXT: Kurt Volker, career diplomat. Former: U.S. special envoy for Ukraine. Fact: Named in whistleblower complaint as key player in setting
up meetings
GORANI: He's the former U.S. special envoy for Ukraine. He was mentioned in the whistleblower complaint for allegedly setting up a meeting between
Mr. Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and Ukrainian officials. The complaint depicts Volker's involvement as an attempt to, quote, "contain
the damage to U.S. national security."
We've heard some reaction from lawmakers leaving that deposition today. Congressional correspondent Sunlen Serfaty joins me now. What do we --
what are these congresspeople saying about what Volker has testified to behind closed doors, Sunlen?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, essentially not much yet on the actual substance of what's happening in that room right
now. And I should note that this has turned into a very lengthy session, classified session. It is still going on right now, now happening well
over four hours long behind closed doors.
But lawmakers are coming in and coming out and speaking briefly to press, but not divulging any of the details of the substance, nor the substance of
what he's saying, nor the substance of what those documents were that were delivered up here on Capitol Hill last night, on his behalf.
And we know there were dozens and dozens of documents. Unclear at this point, whether the State Department cleared those documents, or they are
Kurt Volker's personal documents that he wanted to give to the committee today, before his testimony.
What we are hearing a lot of, though, in short of substance, is really a lot of partisan posturing. We have heard from the Democrats, coming out
and really blasting President Trump's new comments, calling for Ukraine and China, now, to investigate Joe Biden and his son.
And from Republicans, we have heard that they say -- they came out and said, you know, nothing we've heard yet in that room gives any weight,
gives any new breath (ph) to the Democrats' impeachment inquiry.
[14:15:03]
So, right now, things are falling along partisan lines, but notable that, as of now, this marathon session is still going.
GORANI: All right. Sunlen Serfaty, thanks very much, live on Capitol Hill. We'll get back to you as soon as we know more about what was said
during this testimony.
Still to come tonight, deadly clashes between police and protestors erupt in Iraq this time. We discuss what's at stake for both the country and the
region. It's not the only country seeing protests.
And the British prime minister, Boris Johnson, has unveiled his new plan for Brexit and the Irish border, and the responses have ranged from
skepticism to anger. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Night has fallen in Iraq, where a curfew is in place in major areas of the country. Some deadly clashes have erupted during a third day
of mass protests. You can see the dramatic footage there from yesterday in Baghdad, live ammunition was fired into the crowd.
The death toll has now risen to 22, more than 1,400 people have been injured, some of them, security forces. Internet access has been shut off
by authorities and neighboring Iran is closing off its border amid the unrest.
TEXT: Iraq Protests Reasons: Youth unemployment; Accusations of government corruption; Lack of basic services like power and water; Iraq
has world's fourth-largest reserves of oil
GORANI: Demonstrators have been protesting against unemployment, corruption, access to basic services. Even though Iraq has all these oil
reserves, here's what some of them had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The people are being robbed. The people are now begging on the street. There is no work. You come to
protests. They fire at you, live gunfire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Despite the curfew, we are going out to protest, to call for our rights. We want to change the regime.
They have arrested our people. They have done things do our people, they did not even do to Daesh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Iraq is not the only country in the region, which has seen protests across the Middle East. Violence has also swept across Egypt,
Jordan and Lebanon. Let's get some perspective. Fawaz Gerges joins me now. He's a professor at the London School of Economics and author of
"Making the Arab World."
What do you make of what's going on, first of all, in Baghdad? Because during the original Arab Spring in 2011, we didn't see protests there
because they had -- because of the U.S. invasion and occupation, they had gotten rid of their dictator, Saddam Hussein, and they had a government in
place. Now, we're seeing this. What's going on?
FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS: We did see some pockets of resistance and protest in Iraq in
2012, before the country descended into chaos.
Just to give you an idea what's -- for your own viewers, Hala, what's happening in Iraq. Since the American-led invasion and occupation of Iraq,
we estimate $450 billion, $450 billion have been siphoned off by politicians.
[14:20:04]
International Transparency, which is one of the most respected agencies, ranked Iraq 162 out of 180 countries in terms of corruption, that is the
highest wealth countries in the world. Unemployment among young people --
GORANI: Yes.
GERGES: -- the World Bank says, you know, 30 percent. We estimated 40 percent. So what you're seeing here, severe economic vulnerabilities, high
unemployment, systemic corruption, terrible basic services, bad water and electricity. Really, which finally, people feel desperate.
GORANI: And security forces are firing into the crown, they've killed a couple dozen people. And despite the fact that protesting and
demonstrating comes at great personal risk, we're seeing it happen in other countries. Egypt, for instance.
GERGES: No, Hala, I -- you remember, your viewers probably don't remember. A few months from now will be the 10th year anniversary of the Arab Spring
uprising. In 2010, the Arab Spring started in Tunisia.
GORANI: Yes.
GERGES: Yet many commentators -- and you heard them -- had already panned the obituary of the Arab revolts. Yet, 10 years later, here we are again,
the revenge of history. Agency is alive and well, agency. People are basically -- you mentioned -- you didn't mention Sudan, you didn't mention
Algeria --
GORANI: Yes.
GERGES: -- Iraq, Egypt now in play. Why? Because people are desperate, young people. Just for your own viewers, the largest number of unemployed
people in the world are in the Arab world, the largest unemployment rate. The biggest income gap in the world is not in North America, it's in the
region.
GORANI: Yes.
GERGES: Systemic corruption on huge scales.
GORANI: This is corruption, bad governance, autocracy --
GERGES: Unemployment, yes.
GORANI: -- bad management of the economy, siphoning off of the country's revenues. What can -- I mean, how do you even begin to address this?
GERGES: Very, very easily. You have to basically give people a voice in the system. I mean, I think what people are saying now, whether you're
talking about Iraq, Sudan, Algeria, even Jordan is witnessing major social protests. You have one of the longest strikes (ph) by the teachers in
Jordan. Egypt as well.
People are -- all they're asking for is a dignified way of life. They want to take their countries back. Politicians must listen. Politicians must -
-
GORANI: Yes. But if they listen, it's an existential threat to them, isn't it?
GERGES: Yes. I mean, but --
GORANI: Because that's why they're resisting so violently.
GERGES: Absolutely (ph).
GORANI: Lebanon is an interesting case here. Because, really, the economy just feels to me, reading the figures, the dollar peg is disintegrating.
It feels to me like this is an economy on the verge of collapse.
GERGES: If not already collapsed. I mean, Lebanon, by the way, Hala, owes $100 billion, $100 billion in debt, a small country, its budget is very
small. So what you're talking about, where the $100 billion have disappeared in the past, since the end of the war in 1990.
In almost every single -- we estimate, in the Arab world, poverty is over 40 percent. And employment among educated people or semi-educated people,
is over 40 percent, including Tunisia.
GORANI: That's why (ph) --
GERGES: So this is --
GORANI: That's why the brain drain, that's why -- but quickly, because we have -- unfortunately, I could speak for hours about this, but -- is this
another Arab Spring?
GERGES: Well, it's another wave. It's a promising wave because, obviously, agency is there, people are on the streets, people are demanding
their rights, people want to really take governments into account. And the Iraqi government -- I mean, I'm hoping, the Iraqi government will respond
to the demands of the people for better services, for employment, for -- you know, good governance. That's what they're all asking for. They're
not asking for the moon.
GORANI: Fawaz Gerges, thanks very much for joining us.
The British prime minister, Boris Johnson, has finally revealed his plans for Brexit. The new proposals are drawing a lukewarm response from Europe.
The prime minister also shared his proposals with Parliament, which, remember, would not even be sitting today if Mr. Johnson had had his way.
This new plan calls for Northern Ireland to remain in the single market for good, but leave the customs union. Mr. Johnson claims this is a compromise
that removes the Irish border backstop and does not violate the Good Friday agreement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: There will be no need for checks or any infrastructure at or near the border between Ireland and
Northern Ireland. Indeed, I have already given a guarantee that the U.K. government will never conduct checks at the border, and we believe that the
E.U. should do the same. So there is absolute clarity on that point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: The prime minister says electronic and physical checks would take place at other points in the supply chain, not at the border itself.
The opposition leader, Jeremy Corbyn, says this is not a serious proposal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY CORBYN, LEADER OF THE BRITISH LABOUR PARTY: Mr. Speaker, these plans are simply unworkable. Mr. Speaker, for what we have before us is
not a serious proposal to break the deadlock. Instead, these proposals are nothing more than a cynical attempt by the prime minister to shift the
blame for his failure to deliver.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[14:25:11]
GORANI: The E.U. president, Donald Tusk, says Europe remains open to the new British plans, but they are still unconvinced.
Hadas Gold joins me now. So these are new proposals. I mean, the notion that, you know, the Northern Ireland would remain much more closely linked
economically and in -- with regards to trade, to Europe, than the rest of the U.K.
HADAS GOLD, CNN REPORTER: They are new proposals. We've been hearing for weeks, from people calling on Boris Johnson and his government to finally
table something concrete that people can look at. And now, we have this new proposal, which -- it essentially keeps Northern Ireland in the single
market, but out of a customs union.
And would kind of create two borders, north-south and east-west. But as we heard Boris Johnson say, there -- he's claiming there won't be any sort of
new infrastructure. He's talking about a border fence or checkpoints along the border, because there's all this fear of the Good Friday agreement, and
avoiding any sort of evidence of a hard border.
But if you're going to have two separate countries with two separate systems --
GORANI: Right.
GOLD: -- with things like customs, you are going to have to have checks. He says those are going to be done electronically, those are going to be
done elsewhere along the supply chain. But the question we're hearing from Europe is, great, we've got some of these proposals, we need more details.
And we're hearing from them, saying specifically where -- how far is not near the border?
GORANI: Right.
GOLD: Where is that exactly, and how will that actually work? None of that are in --
GORANI: So we don't have those details?
GOLD: No, none of that are in these documents, that he has sent, this letter, this. We don't -- I always look through it, I don't see any
specifics on any sort of how many miles away that would be, and that's what the E.U. is seeking from the U.K. now.
GORANI: How do you stay in a single market but outside the customs union? Practically, what does that mean for Northern Ireland?
GOLD: Well, it means that they will be treated differently than the rest of the United Kingdom, which I think is interesting --
GORANI: Right.
GOLD: -- because when he was running for prime minister, Boris Johnson made it sound as though that would be the last thing he would want to put
Northern Ireland through.
GORANI: Yes.
GOLD: Now, he is claiming that this gives -- his new plan also gives Northern Ireland some more control because their assembly will have to
approve this agreement every four years. That means that possibly, every four years, we'll be going through this all over again.
Another wrench in this plan is the Northern Ireland Assembly has not been sitting for the last two years.
GORANI: Right.
GOLD: So who would even approve it now, if they haven't -- if they aren't even sitting right now? There's a lot of questions, obviously, still to be
answered. And that's why you're hearing (ph) some of these sort of lukewarm receptions from the European Union right now.
GORANI: So -- but we're fast approaching a very important E.U. summit, in a few days. And if the prime minister is unable to come up with a deal to
bring back to Parliament for them to approve, he is, by law, compelled to ask for a delay.
GOLD: Right. And there's an interesting sort of date dance here, that we're trying to figure out, still. For example, when would there be a
meaningful vote on this new proposal? Because he would essentially, theoretically go the E.U., to the European Council summit, get this
approval, if he could do it in the next few days, and then bring it back for a meaningful vote.
But the first date, I think, he would be able to bring back a meaningful vote, would be October 21st, which is after the deadline in that
(INAUDIBLE) bill. He's supposed to get the extension --
GORANI: Right.
GOLD: -- by October 19th. And today, when he asked whether he would -- he was (ph) just, point blank, asked in Parliament, whether he would get that
delay, he said that the option would not commend itself to me.
Now, if you know what that means, that would -- I would love to know the answer. Because I have no idea what that actually means. Did he actually
answer the question of whether he will be seeking an extension?
Now, he's said, many times before, he'd rather be dead in a ditch. But his language --
(CROSSTALK)
GORANI: What was the actual -- sorry, what was the actual line?
GOLD: That the option would not commend itself to me. He doesn't want it, obviously. But his language around Europe had gotten a little bit
friendlier, with some sort of veiled threats. He did also say that if Europe is not at least showing willingness to work with them, then they
will leave on October 31st no matter what.
GORANI: Hadas Gold, thanks very much for that.
Still to come, the Paris police force is shaken after one of their own pulls a knife and kills four coworkers. We're live in the French capital.
[14:29:05]
Plus, more on the impeachment inquiry against U.S. President Donald Trump as the first official testifies on Capitol Hill. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:34]
GORANI: Let's turn now to our top story and what could be a defining moment for Donald Trump's presidency.
The former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, is on Capitol Hill today. He's appearing before three House committees. There he is. Now,
he was the envoy to Ukraine. He resigned the day after the whistleblower complaint went public and is the first official to testify on the explosive
charges that Mr. Trump tried to pressure Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden and his son, Hunter.
Let's go into live now to our senior international correspondent Sam Kiley, he's in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev. What are you learning, Sam today?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, on the matter of Mr. Volker, of course, his testimony is being held behind closed
doors, but do we know in the run up to his testimony, after his resignation, that it is assumed that he resigned because he felt that he
had, perhaps, overstepped the mark in providing contacts between Rudy Giuliani, the lawyer for Donald Trump, personal lawyer for Donald Trump and
figures within the Ukrainian government and administration.
But he's also going to be there, we understand, from Ukrainian officials, very much defending not only his role as trying to help Ukraine navigate
the swampy waters of American politics, but also as a figure as other diplomats have been described here in Ukraine from the United States as
people who are very much behind efforts to stand out corruption, not conniving it.
And that, of course, essential to Mr. Giuliani's documents that he's recently released via the State Department, as he puts it or rooted through
the State Department, which, of course, we've had a look at in the last 24 hours. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much for that. Sam Kiley live in Kiev.
Three police officers and a police administrator have been killed in a brutal knife attack on the headquarters of the Paris police. The attacker
was a longtime employee of the police. We understand he was shot during the incident and killed.
Jim Bittermann joins us now with more on the attack.
And, Jim, this happened -- this man who attacked his former colleague had a knife. And I guess people are wondering, how did he cause so much damage
when police officers are armed with firearms in France?
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly, Hala. We don't know all the details just yet. He was, in fact, shot dead
by a police officer who got his service weapon out.
But I think it happened very quickly. People were leaving the building for lunch. It was 1:00 in the afternoon.
And the assailant was someone they all knew, he worked at the police station for many years. He joined the administration in 2003. And this is
really shocking , I think, for a lot of police here. Because the fact is this is the most secure location in Paris. This is central police station
and it's very rare that anything happens here.
I think the last time there was any kind of an attack here was in 1986 when someone sneaked in and blew up a bomb. But it's also very, very secure.
The entire area around here is secure. So I think that that really shocked people.
One of the things that's interesting is that they have not yet turned this investigation over to the terrorism prosecutor in Paris, which means that,
for the moment, at least, they are not considering this is a terrorist crime. That could change. They have picked up his wife and are
questioning her and they've also investigated his apartment to see what they could find there. Hala?
[14:35:11]
GORANI: And how did he gain access? Because he was a former employee. Obviously, he'd know the lay of the land in terms of the actual location,
right?
BITTERMANN: Well, our understanding was that he was not a former employee. He was a currently employee. He was -- he was currently employed and had
been talking to his colleagues during the afternoon.
So he -- almost certainly -- and this could -- to be confirmed, But almost certainly had police identification so it could easily get in and out. And
then the question is with the knife, there were some reports that he was maybe using a ceramic knife that would have gone through the metal
detector, but that hasn't been confirmed yet either. Hala?
GORANI: And that's even more puzzling then. I mean, the reports -- apologies, the reports I saw suggested he was a former employee, but he was
a current employee, why would he not have, you know, a firearm on him or why would he use a ceramic knife? I mean, there's so many questions here.
This is such a puzzling case. Yes.
BITTERMANN: Sure. He was -- no. He was -- he was, in fact, not a policeman. He was -- he was -- in other words, wouldn't have a firearm,
but he was in the police administration.
And as I think you know that this is a building that is used for all sorts of police matters including things like driver's licenses and residence
permits and things like that. So, in fact, there were a number of non- police officers who work in here and he was one of those.
The prosecutor, the Paris prosecutor said a few hours ago that, in fact, there was nothing to create suspicion about this man that in his years
working here, he basically had a clean record and they had no reason to believe that anything like this could happen. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Well, that answers a lot of questions. Thanks very much, Jim Bittermann, live in Paris with a latest on this attack on the
police headquarters.
I want to get back to President Trump who's now publicly urging Ukraine's leader to investigate his political rival, Joe Biden. Not just Ukraine, by
the way, he's also asking China to investigate Biden.
In his view though, there's nothing wrong with that. He's continuing to insist that his phone call with the Ukrainian president was perfect, quote-
unquote and beautiful, quote-unquote.
But just hours ago, he refused to answer and grew furious when he asked about the call by reporters. Take a look at another moment from his news
conference with the Finnish president on Wednesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: What did you want about Biden? What do you want to look into on Biden?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Biden and his son are stone cold crooked and you know it. His son walks out with millions of dollars.
The kid knows nothing. You know it and so do we. Go ahead ask him question.
MASON: The question, sir, was, what did you want President Zelensky to do about vice president Biden and his son, Hunter?
TRUMP: Are you talking to me?
MASON: Yes. It was just a follow up of what I just asked you.
TRUMP: Listen, are you ready? We have the president of Finland. Ask him a question.
MASON: I have one for him. I just wanted to follow up on the one that I asked you which --
TRUMP: Did you hear me? Did you hear me?
MASON: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: Ask him a question.
MASON: I will.
TRUMP: I've given you a long answer. Ask this gentlemen a question. Don't be rude.
MASON: No, sir. I don't want to be rude. I just wanted you to have a chance to answer the question that I asked you.
TRUMP: I've answered everything. It's a whole hoax and you know who's playing into the hoax? People like you and the fake news media that we
have in this country. And I say in many cases, the corrupt media, because you're corrupt. Much of the media in this county is not just fake, it's
corrupt.
Ask the president of Finland a question, please.
MASON: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, just hours after that remarkable press conference when the U.S. president refused to say what he urged Ukraine to do, Donald Trump is
now openly encouraging not only Ukraine but also China, as we mentioned to look into the man who wants his job at the White House, Joe Biden.
CNN chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter, joins me now. What do you make of the fact that Donald Trump has now moved on to calling the media
corrupt? What is the significance of that or and the impact of that as well?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It is significant because the president is uncovering evidence of Trump world's corruption. And as a
result, he's throwing the word back at the press. He does this all the time almost on a daily basis. His former projection where he says Adam
Schiff should resign, because Adam Schiff is looking into his presidency and trying to get him impeached.
It's more of this projection that we see on a regular basis and it is extraordinary to see the president admitting in public to what the
Democrats are trying to impeach him over.
He seems content to let all this play out in public view. Perhaps with a belief that if you admit to it, if you say it out loud, that it can't be
exposed later, you know.
There's been allegations of a cover up, and increasingly, there's evidence that is pointing in that direction, but the president seems to be willing
to just admit to some of these alleged offenses, which, in some ways, makes it easier for the Democrats. In other ways, that makes it harder. Because
there's a persuasion effort that has to happen here by the Democrats to convince the majority of the American people that impeachment is the right
course of events.
[14:40:14]
And, again, Hala, the real story is the Republicans. The silence from Republicans. What will they saw now, now that the president has basically
admitted to wanting this done?
GORANI: Yes. And many people were marked on Twitter and elsewhere that if a whistleblower had reported a phone call between the U.S. president and
officials in China requesting their help in investigating Biden that it would probably have been a bigger scandal even than Ukraine, but he said it
publicly on the White House lawn.
STELTER: I would just say that's probably up to the press and up to the Democrats and up to the public. It is still a scandal even if he admits it
publicly that if he says it outright.
GORANI: Sure.
STELTER: It's all about abusing power --
GORANI: He's normalizing it in a way that I wonder -- I mean, I guess my question, and this would dovetails into my follow up, how does this play
with his core supporters? I do wonder if some of his rhetoric calling the media corrupt, calling -- coming up with nicknames for his -- for his
political rivals, is that still working with them? Is that still energizing them or is that stating to wear thin? Is it kind of like a
broken record here?
STELTER: I think on social media, we can measure that his engagement on Twitter is declining, that it's not as effective as it was two years ago,
that he doesn't get as many share or likes when he comes up with nicknames.
However, we have seen an incredible steadiness in the approval rating polls. Of 35 to 40 percent of the country supported the president, no
matter what, no matter what scandal comes and goes. So I would be surprised to see erosion below that, say, 33 percent. The third of the
country seems to be with him no matter what.
But the question is whether -- rest of Republicans, the lawmakers look at those numbers and then decide that they are better off staying with Trump
or breaking with him. And I think that is really very much an open question.
GORANI: Well, we did hear from Ben Sasse, we heard from senior Senator, Chuck Grassley, and others, now saying, listen, we've got to hear from this
whistleblower. There is a slightly more pushback politically than there has been, up until now.
STELTER: Yes, there is a little bit. There is a little bit more than we've seen in the past. And the reason why the president is lashing out,
attacking the press even more, it's because he does have the sense that he is in a troublesome spot.
Just a few minutes ago, he said that, of course, he bashed CNN like he usually does, and he said he should launch his own network instead.
Now, of course, as president, he's not going to launch his own television network, but that gets to his desire to control the message and to punish a
free press and they have his own kind of promotional propagandistic press instead.
It is notable that he's talking that way, because he already does have a messaging arm in Fox News. The Fox News primetime lineup -- stand by him
and defend these alleged crimes. But maybe even Fox News is not enough for this president.
Right. And even on Fox News, some of the commentators and presenters are, you know, holding some Trump surrogates and supporters to account.
Obviously, not all of them, but some of them. So we're starting to see that a little bit as well there.
STELTER: Yes. There's been a civil war of sorts within Fox, the news division trying to report honestly about what is going on. The opinion
division trying to buck up the president no matter what. Though that is a clash of two different realities that is going on. Because what is
happening right now is, in some ways, is indefensible.
The president's fitness is the fundamental topic and it's on the table here. Look at Kellyanne Conway's husband, George Conway, today writing an
article for The Atlantic saying this president is not fit for office because of his extreme narcissism. That's not a Democrat. That's a
Republican lawyer married to the counselor for the president saying that in a -- in a famous magazine.
It does seem the president is getting worse with regards to his rhetoric. The extreme nature of his language or the press in his opponents.
And again, that's why I continue to turn around and say, what, will Republican senators say or not say?
GORANI: All right. Brian Stelter, thanks very much.
Still to come tonight, a hug of forgiveness and chance of protest as a jury sentences a former policewoman for killing an unarmed black man in his own
apartment. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:23]
GORANI: An emotional day in court capturing worldwide attention. On Wednesday, a jury sentenced former policewoman, Amber Guyger, to 10 years
in prison for murder. The white police officer shot an unarmed black man in his own apartment.
Guyger claims she thought the apartment was her own and she mistook his for hers.
Ed Lavandera has reaction from the courtroom in Dallas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUDGE TAMMY KEMP, DALLAS COUNTY DISTRICT JUDGE: We the jury find unanimously that the defendant did not cause the death of Botham Jean while
under the immediate influence of sudden passion arising from inadequate cause and assess the defendant's punishment at 10 years imprisonment in the
Texas department of criminal justice.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The words left Botham Jean's family appearing dismayed and shocked.
Amber Guyger sentenced to 10 years in prison. She'll be eligible for parole in five years at just the age of 36.
CROWD: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.
LAVANDERA: Outside the courtroom, the sentenced angered protesters, sparking chants.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police department around the country (INAUDIBLE) to our people. This is not a joke. This is our lives.
LAVANDERA: But at the same time inside the courtroom, a dramatic scene was unfolding.
B. JEAN: I forgive you.
LAVANDERA: Botham Jean's 18-year-old brother, Brandt, spoke directly to the former Dallas police officer who killed his brother. He told Guyger
that he didn't want to see her rot in prison and that he had one request before she was taken to her jail cell.
B. JEAN: I love you as a person and I don't wish anything bad on you. I don't know if this is possible but can I give her a hug, please? Please?
KEMP: Yes.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Guyger's attorney called it humbling and the most amazing moment he had ever seen in a courtroom.
The emotion lingered long after the case ended. Judge Tammy Kemp hugged Botham Jean's family.
And in a rare move, also hugged Amber Guyger, the convicted murderer, and gave her a bible.
KEMP: You can have mine. I have three or four more at home. This is the one I use every day. This is your job for the next month.
LAVANDERA: Allison Jean, Botham's mother, shared her hope for how Amber Guyger spends her years in prison.
ALLISON JEAN, MOTHER OF BOTHAM JEAN: That 10 years in prison is 10 years for her reflection and for her to change her life. If Amber Guyger was
trained not to shoot in the heart --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, right.
A. JEAN: -- my son would be standing here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was no threat.
A. JEAN: He was no threat --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a shame.
A. JEAN: -- to her. He had no reason to pose a threat to her because he was in his own apartment -- in his sanctuary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: That was Ed Lavandera reporting. I don't know many people that would have the strength, the grace, whatever you want to call it, to
forgive the person who killed their brother.
[14:50:02]
Bertram Jean, Botham's father, was a little more pointed. He told CNN he thinks Guyger's sentence may not have been sufficient based on the crime.
This was Botham's father speaking.
Now, we want to turn to something completely different now and continue our "Innovate Africa" series. CNN's Robyn Curnow introduces us to one
pharmaceutical company that is looking to revolutionize prescription drugs in Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREGORY ROCKSON, FOUNDER, MPHARMA: When we started mPharma, we tried to ask a three main question. The first was, what if each community in Africa
had a pharmacy that was always well stocked? What if patients that went into those pharmacies had the best customer experience? What if these
pharmacies could become primary health care providers?
When we look at the medicine supply chain on the continent, it is highly fragmented. We don't order on pharmacies, we take existing pharmacies,
improve them, put in place by the technology and then use that to increase access to patients.
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And the drugs, how do you get the drugs in and how do you manage your drug supply chain?
ROCKSON: We build our own physical supply chain infrastructure. But it's that's off from being able to actually aggregate demand across all these
fragmented moment for pharmacies.
And by aggregating demand, it allows us to become a single buyer. So we then take the volumes that we aggregate and then negotiate on behalf of all
the pharmacy in our network.
CURNOW: What's served an example that you would give us to explain how you've worked effectively?
ROCKSON: Let's say a country like Nigeria, for two years, we've been working on how can we create a breast cancer treatment program. So one of
the key things that we built, we know breast cancer treatment program was to say, how do you actually innovate around medicine payments?
We (INAUDIBLE) the worst leader oncology pharmaceutical company to build a payment program in Nigeria where by any woman diagnosed with breast cancer
can enroll in this program and they get an interest fee payment plan.
And with that, we've actually cut by half the cost of cancer, breast cancer treatment in Nigeria today.
CURNOW: What's your goal in terms of impacting people's lives in the continent?
ROCKSON: So since 2017, we've set over one million patients on the continent. Each month, we served 100 patients through our network of over
400 pharmacies product across Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.
For me, success is when every African patient that needs a medication is able to walk into any of our pharmacies. And irrespective how much money
you have in your pocket, we can dispense a drug to them.
CURNOW: So what's your vision then in terms of the grand dream that you have in your head?
ROCKSON: I want mPharma to represent the promise of health progress in the continent. Right? I want to ask to become a single entity that can take
care of all your health care needs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Stay with CNN. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:08]
GORANI: All this week, we're profiling the citizens and corporations in Japan taking on the growing amount of waste one beverage giant streamlining
its recycling. Here's Kristie Lu Stout.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is just a snapshot of the more than five million vending machines spread
across Japan. And many of them carry the drinks and, of course, plastic bottles produced by Suntory, a beverage company with 120 years of history,
and they see themselves as having an echo-conscious plant for the future.
TAKESHI NIINAMI, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SUNTORY: Plastics, it's really convenient for life. But a convenience has a tradeoff. And then now is
the time to resolve that tradeoff for the next generations.
LU STOUT: At their production facility in Kanagawa Prefecture, a flurry of bottles is churned out every day, but these aren't your typical Virgin
plastic bottles destined for a single-use. They're made from existing used PET bottles through a process that Suntory hatched with a recycling
company, Kyoei.
NIINAMI: We should not produce farther virgin PET bottles, which are produced by petrol-based.
LU STOUT: Suntory says it can accomplish this policy through technology like F to P recycling, flake to preform. At a Kyoei plant outside Tokyo,
the standard processes in mechanical recycling are taking place. Bails of used plastic are loaded, sorted by machine and by hand, cleaned and then
pulverized into tiny pieces or flakes.
Here's where things get different. Rather than melting the flakes and forming them into pallets, the process is streamlined and the flakes are
turned directly into what's called preforms. Think of them as baby plastic bottles. Your used bottle of soda reincarnated as a new one to be blown up
and filled with new beverages.
Kristie Lu Stout, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, climate change activists used a fire engine to target the U.K. Treasury and to make their point. There was a bit of a mishap though.
The activist sprayed what they described as fake blood on the building, 1,800 liters of it.
But at one point, they lost -- well, they lost control of the hose. The activists were protesting what they said the government's hypocrisy when it
comes to tackling climate change by claiming to take it seriously, but then putting money into projects that, in fact, harm the environment.
I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks to all of you for watching tonight. Do stay with CNN. A lot more ahead. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming your way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
