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Hala Gorani Tonight
Interview With Syrian Democratic Forces Spokesperson; Turkey Focuses On Buffer Zone; New Details In Matt Lauer Firing; Turkish Military Offensive In Northern Syria Underway; Two Killed In Shootings Near Synagogue; Joe Biden Calls For Trump's Impeachment For The First Time; Bernie Sanders Announces Plan To Scale Back Campaign. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 09, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:39]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello and welcome. I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, thousands of civilians are fleeing Syria's northern border region in a panic as a long-threatened Turkish military offensive against Kurdish
fighters gets under way in earnest.
Turkish war planes and artillery are attacking several towns, beginning what Recep Tayyip Erdogan calls an operation to destroy a terror corridor.
This is brand-new CNN video of the aftermath in Ras al-Ain. Kurdish-red (ph) Syrian Democratic Forces say two civilians have been killed so far.
Civilians, not evacuated, from what we understand. They are urging the SDF, the world to help prevent a humanitarian catastrophe.
The Kurds were the strongest U.S. allies in the fight against ISIS. But President Donald Trump pulled U.S. troops from the area just a few days
ago. Now, we're hearing that the Kurdish fighters have suspended their military operations against ISIS to focus instead on the Turkish threat,
exactly what many in the West feared would happen.
And not just in the West. In fact, Chief International Correspondent, Clarissa Ward is in northern Syria. CNN is the only American network on
the ground there, covering this military offensive. Our Senior International Correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is on the Turkish-Syrian
border.
Clarissa, I want to start with you. What's the latest on this Turkish operation?
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, we actually were arriving on the outskirts of the city of Ras al-Ain when it
came under -- or I should say, just in the moments after it came under Turkish bombardment. We saw at least six strikes, the aftermath of those
strikes, big, thick plumes of black smoke. One building, apparently, on fire. Locals telling us it was a cotton factory.
And then, just a sort of mass exodus of civilians who were absolutely petrified at this sudden onslaught, and unsure of, really, where to flee
to. The streets were choked with traffic, the fumes of those cars, but also that thick smoke from all those strikes.
Locals telling me it had been going on for a couple of hours, that the strikes were thick and fast. Many of them were with their families, young
children, mattresses strapped to their roofs. I asked them where they're going, Hala, and they simply say, we don't know. We don't know where to
go. We don't know where is safe.
And that's because, from what we can see on the ground, the Turkish military has been hitting a variety of targets in wildly divergent areas.
They've also hit the city of Qamishli, which is over a hundred miles away from Ras al-Ain. We passed through it earlier today, very disturbing
footage being shared on social media out of that city as well.
So it seems to many people on the ground here, Hala, that nowhere is essentially safe. And don't forget that even if you get out of this so-
called buffer zone that Turkey says this military operation is aiming to clear, you are still in a very dangerous and destructive war zone, Hala.
So certainly --
GORANI: Right. You're --
WARD: -- the civilians here, feeling the brunt of this.
GORANI: Yes, as is often the case. Where do you even go? Some of these people were displaced from other parts of Syria.
Let's go to the Turkish side of the border, Nick Paton Walsh is there. What is the aim of this operation at this stage, Nick?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Turkey hasn't necessarily laid out the scope of the operation, but the idea behind it is
to clear the Syrian Kurdish forces, who Turkey considers to be terrorists, even though I should point out, they have been getting a lot of U.S.
backing, a lot of the casualties, in fighting, pretty much the predominant terrorist group in the region, ISIS, over the past years.
Turkey wants to clear these Syrian Kurdish groups away from the border, push them back possibly as far as 18 miles into northeastern Syria, to
create a safe zone, as they call it, into which they can insert some of the 2 to 3 million Syrian refugees that have come into Turkey since the
beginning of the Syrian civil war.
That is an enormous undertaking, frankly, one that even the second-largest army in NATO, which Turkey maintains, could perhaps struggle to achieve.
So the thought, possibly, is this is a beginning of a gradual process. That maybe Tal Abyad, that we were opposite, watching some of the artillery
strikes begin, earlier this afternoon, and the Ras al-Ain, where Clarissa is, may be the beginnings of the territory, which Turkish forces tend to
move into -- intends to move into.
[14:05:02]
We haven't seen ground operations at this point, and you would normally expect a NATO military to use air power, use artillery to soften up
targets, and then move in slowly around them.
The real question is exactly the appetite that President Erdogan has for a lengthy offensive here. He clearly feels he has a green light. In fact,
something which was kind of reiterated in the most recent statement from the White House by President Donald Trump. He called it a bad idea, but
didn't say that he wanted it to stop from actually happening.
Perhaps President Erdogan feels he needs to use that green light to get something done. But whether or not he thinks the country has a domestic
appetite for what could be a years' long involvement against a hardened ideological army like the Syrian Kurds, remember, steeled from fighting
ISIS in urban environments? We'll have to wait and see.
But I think we are going to see this slowly unfold in the days ahead, involving a ground invasion eventually, and we are hearing reports along
the border, of military activity and possibly shelling too, here. So this is the beginning of something which may take certainly days, if not weeks,
if not even possibly months, Hala.
GORANI: Right. Absolutely. Especially if it involves a ground incursion. Stay with us. And, Clarissa, stay with me as well.
I can speak, now, to an SDF spokesperson. Kino Gabriel, he's in northern Syria. We're not disclosing his exact location. What do you know about
this Turkish incursion? I understand airstrike on Ras al-Ain, Qamishli, which is quite far away, and Tal Abyad. Tell us what you know.
KINO GABRIEL, SPOKESMAN, SYRIAN DEMOCRATIC FORCES: Hello. Of course, during the last few hours, Turkey started its military operation against
north and east Syria. Several cities and towns were targeted by the Turkish artillery, shelling and airstrikes, starting from the border towns
and cities like Tal Abyad, Ras al-Ain, Qamishli, Derik and also, including areas far (ph) behind, like, Ain Issa and al-Qampiri (ph) area.
I think military speaking, that is a preparation for the ground troops to advance and to intervene inside Syria. So far, as the information arrived
us (ph), we have several casualties, mostly civilians. We have several dead -- or several people who got killed, and others who are wounded by
those airstrikes and artillery shelling.
And in some areas, we see the people attempting to -- or working in order to procure food and get some supplies for future days.
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: So everything, I think, countries (ph), especially in those cities, is in some kind of chaos and we are going to monitor the situation.
At the current time, I would like to make clear that, so far, the SDF didn't respond against those strikes and shelling. But I don't know how --
for how long it's going to happen, and if it got much worse, of course, we are going to respond eventually.
GORANI: You -- when you say you're going to respond, you anticipate a ground incursion by Turkish troops. At that point, what do you do?
GABRIEL: Well, of course, I think the Turkish government and the Turkish officials, including the president, made clear that their goal is to invade
Syria and to control a huge part of our country.
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: So far, that SDF, we are going to defend this area and to defend ourselves and our families and our people. And I think we are going to use
everything in our hand, and all our possibilities in order to secure the area and to defend it, and try to secure the people in it.
GORANI: And how do you intend on responding? Turkey's military is one of the strongest in NATO. How do SDF fighters intend to respond to the might
of the Turkish military here?
GABRIEL: Well, we know that. And we really know that we can't have to -- or we cannot compare between the equipment and the -- we -- or the supplies
or everything that we have, and we cannot compare it to what the Turkish army has. But, again, that doesn't mean that we are going to surrender,
just like that, and give the area and give our homeland to the invaders, just because they are attacking us or just because they are stronger.
[14:10:00]
We have, already, fought against the Turkish army and their mercenary groups in Afrin. And even though it is much smaller area and maybe we
didn't have as much equipment or supplies as we have now, but we managed to defend the area and to combat the Turkish army for two months, and --
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: -- I think in wide area as well (ph), what (ph) we have in eastern Euphrates (ph) River, we have more possibility, I think, to defend.
And there is more area for the civilians who --
GORANI: Yes. But, Mr. Gabriel --
GABRIEL: -- move to safety, and --
GORANI: -- I just want to jump in because one of the concerns is for these ISIS prisoners that are being held. There are thousands of them in the
area where you yourself said you anticipate a Turkish incursion.
And you also have fighters who are being re-routed, who are having to focus on this Turkish operation rather than guarding ISIS prisoners' family
members. Do you think this means that ISIS members will be able to somehow regroup themselves as a result of this operation?
GABRIEL: Well, we don't think so. We already know it, the security situation have decreased during the last few days, as we had to move part
of our forces from different areas, closer to the border. And that created some kind of a vacuum.
And already, today, in the morning -- sorry, at the first hours of this day, a group of tens (ph) of ISIS sleeper cells gathered together and had
an attack against one of our military headquarters in Raqqa.
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: So we didn't -- we didn't see any operation for ISIS like that. Maybe in Raqqa, of course, in the last year or year and a half. So that
really shows that ISIS is going to use and benefit from this operation and from this Turkish attack against north and east Syria, in order to regroup
and try to --
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: -- re-emerge again.
GORANI: I just need to get one -- before I get back to Clarissa, one question. I've read a report that the SDF asked for help from U.S. forces,
when they were coming under attack today, and that that help was denied. Is that true? Yes or no.
GABRIEL: I don't really know about this details and specifics. But in general, we know that the Turkish army was prevented from taking any
action, from -- in this invasion or in this operation, that is conducted by the Turkish army, those were the decisions made by the U.S. government and
I think the U.S. forces on the ground, here in Syria, whom we have been working together for almost four years, can't do anything against those
orders.
GORANI: Yes.
GABRIEL: So I think it -- this decision should come from the U.S. government, not from the American troops here on the ground.
GORANI: All right. Those reports that the U.S. officials in Washington told troops on the ground not to respond to that request. Kino Gabriel,
thank you very much for joining us from northern Syria, the SDF spokesperson on the ground.
Clarissa Ward, if you're still with me, what did you make of what we just heard there from the SDF, the anticipation that a ground incursion is going
to happen? And that, obviously, these resources that they had, fanned out across the country, will have to now refocus their attention entirely on
this Turkish incursion?
WARD: Well, and I think, you know, Hala, when you were pressing him on the issue of how on earth these Kurdish forces can begin to compete with the
military might of Turkey, which is a NATO ally, I mean, it's just simply not a fairly matched fight.
So presumably, they will be relying hugely on all of their assets that, as you mentioned are fanned out across this huge border area, you know, over a
hundred miles of border, you're talking about. And then the problem becomes, do you create a vacuum? Are you pulling --
GORANI: Yes.
WARD: -- robbing Peter to pay Paul? And when you're moving those forces away from certain areas, away from Raqqa, like we saw last night, ISIS
sleeper cells organizing a coordinated attack on various Kurdish Syrian checkpoints, this is the danger. You create a power vacuum and there are
many dangerous actors in this country who are more than willing -- and preparing -- to coalesce, reconstitute and exploit any vacuum that may be
created as a result of this ground invasion.
[14:15:04]
GORANI: All right. Our Chief International Correspondent, Clarissa Ward, as I mentioned at the top of the hour, we are the only U.S. network inside
Syria, covering this important story. Thanks so much.
My next guest says the Turkish operation in Syria could last several months. Hassan Hassan is the director of the Non-State Actors program at
the Center for Global Policy. He's also co-author of "ISIS: Inside the Army of Terror." Thanks for being with us.
Your first impressions of what we saw today. Were you able to hear my interview with the SDF spokesperson, Kino Gabriel?
HASSAN HASSAN, DIRECTOR OF NON-STATE ACTORS PROGRAM, CENTER FOR GLOBAL POLICY: I heard some of it.
GORANI: Right. Well, especially, I asked him whether or not -- and he couldn't provide an answer, but whether or not SDF fighters on the ground
asked for help from U.S. -- from the U.S. military, and that that help was denied. These are reports that are floating around. What are your
impressions of this first day as this Turkish operation starts in earnest?
HASSAN: Well, I think that Turkey got a green light from the United States, so that's out of question, for the United States to stand against
Turkey.
I think whether the SDF is trying to get help from the U.S. or not, that's almost too late now.
GORANI: Yes.
HASSAN: What's happening today, from the -- like, in the initial phase, seems to be that just Turkey's trying to plant its flag in the northern
Syria, probably before Trump changes his mind. And what's happening now is, really, random -- almost random strikes in much of northern Syria. And
seems like just Turkey trying to say, we are already started our operation. I think the next stage of trying to send troops will probably start tonight
or in the coming days.
GORANI: Right. In the night hours, potentially.
Now, once you send ground troops, this is a completely different game, of course, on the ground. And you predict that this could take months. And
not just that, but that it could be very bloody, very deadly and very messy. Because even though it's a mismatched fight, SDF fighters have been
at it for many years. They're not willing to go down without a fight. So this could be a terribly deadly operation.
HASSAN: I do think -- I do think this will continue to, in different stages, for several months. It's not going to be just one takeover. I
don't think there would be kind of this -- the Kurds are going to put off, you know, a fierce fight against Turkey. I think Turkey is going to choose
where it's going to send its forces first, so they're going to probably go to Arab-majority areas, they're going to rely on ground forces, they're
going to bomb and bomb until they kind of carve out some presence for them in some of these areas.
And then, I hope that Kurdish population will probably leave the area or retreat into the SDF areas south of that zone that Turkey is trying to do.
GORANI: Right. But in the middle of all this, as is so often the case, civilians are present in these areas, some of them relocated and displaced
from other parts of Syria. What happens to them?
HASSAN: Well, they're going to have to, you know, run either north into Turkey, but most likely into places like Raqqa and Hasika. They're going
to be the biggest losers in this fight. It's going to be bloody, it's going to be -- we've seen that already, so this is not like the first time
Turkey intervenes in Syria. It has done it before in the northwest and northern Syria, so we already have precedents for how Turkey conducts such
attacks and the cost, the civilian cost of these attacks.
Usually they don't actually try to take over areas town by town, or they send troops --
GORANI: Right.
HASSAN: -- to fight from street to street. What they're trying to do is basically try to move very quickly, mark their territory and then station
themselves there. And I think that's their tactic they're going to use in northeastern Syria.
GORANI: But this whole objective of a buffer zone, hundreds of miles wide, 20 miles deep. I mean, this is not realistic, is it?
HASSAN: Well, I think it's -- from a Turkish point of view, this is very realistic. In fact, the alternative to that is unthinkable for Turkey. If
you want to think about it from a Turkish point of view --
GORANI: But how do you --
HASSAN: -- I think they are --
GORANI: -- police this, Hassan? I mean, how do you police and control an area this wide?
HASSAN: Exactly. This is one of the unknowns, the dangers, probably the most dangerous unknowns of this operation. It's going to open new doors.
Nobody knows what's going to happen next, nobody even thought about what's going to happen next.
This is really Turkey, blinded (ph) or informed, let's say, by this idea that they have to step in and destroy the stateless, this kind of Kurdish
idea that's been there. So they -- that's their priority, that's what they're trying to do.
[14:20:00]
What's going to happen next is really something for another day. For them and for the United States, for everyone. Nobody knows what's going to
happen beyond Turkey marking that territory as their zone in that part of Syria.
GORANI: Hassan Hassan, thanks very much, as always, for joining us.
Much more on this story ahead, including importantly what the White House is saying about this. That's coming up in about 10 minutes.
But coming up next, we're disturbed to our core. That is how one former colleague is describing a new troubling detailed allegation against a
former American broadcast superstar, Matt Lauer.
In Germany, what some officials say could be an anti-Semitic attack on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar. Those details, in a live report, are
coming up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: The latest on the Trump impeachment inquiry. House Democrats in the U.S. are condemning the White House announcement that it will not
cooperate with investigators on this.
Some Democrats say they already have all the evidence, though, that they need to impeach President Donald Trump. And they claim Mr. Trump's refusal
to cooperate is just evidence that he's attempting to obstruct.
Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty is live on Capitol Hill with the very latest. Hi, Sunlen.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala. That's right. Certainly, a lot of pressure being -- attempted to be exerted on House
Democrats by the White House, with that blistering letter they sent last night, up here, to Capitol Hill, saying that essentially they would not
cooperate until there is a House vote.
And even then, if House Democrats agree to a House vote to formally open an impeachment inquiry, no promise, of course, from the White House if they
would cooperate with (ph) that (ph) investigation.
So where we are at is, House Democrats essentially likely not going to bend, not going to succumb to this White House pressure. Speaker of the
House Nancy Pelosi, she has been very clear on -- she does not believe that she needs to hold a vote to open up an impeachment inquiry. She's not
ruled it out, but she says she believes it's not necessary at this time. And specifically, as far as the Constitution, she doesn't need to do that.
Now, we will certainly be looking in days ahead, whether there is any cracks in that. One Democrat, this morning, saying that he believes that
they do need to go ahead and push forward to a formal vote. The House is going to get back from a two-week-long recess next week. Likely we will
see some strategizing on the way forward.
But for now, the House Democrats' response to that White House letter is very clear, that they will factor in stonewalling into their larger
argument about obstruction, and that potentially just builds their case in their articles of impeachment -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Sunlen Serfaty, thanks very much.
When "NBC News" fired its popular anchor Matt Lauer, two years ago, the network said an employee accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior.
Now, in a new book, that former -- that very former employee is speaking publicly for the first time. And the new details reveal much more
disturbing allegations than just an inappropriate relationship, according to her.
[14:25:11]
Brian Stelter joins me now from New York with more. This Ronan Farrow's new book. What does this former employee say happened with Matt Lauer?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is a big book. It's called "Catch And Kill." It comes out next week, but it's started to
leak out. And in this book, it's the first time a woman named Brooke Nevils has been interviewed on the record about her experiences with Lauer.
She says that when she was in Sochi, Russia, the 2014 Winter Olympics, covering the Olympics for NBC, she had a long night of drinking with Lauer
and others at NBC. Lauer invited her up to his room, which she said was not unusual. She would go up there and deliver papers and things like that
to him.
But in this instance, he brought her inside, closed the door, and forced himself on her. She says that Lauer raped her in the hotel room that
night. She says that she went back to her room, bleeding. She says she bled for days. These are very disturbing details in this on-the-record
interview.
And it's also complicated by the fact that when they were back in New York, Lauer and Nevils then kept seeing each other, having an extramarital
affair, in Lauer's case. And in those instances, Nevils says these were consensual relationships.
But she says she was traumatized by the rape in 2014. She says she had PTSD as a result, says it really changed her life forever. And she's now
speaking for the first time on the record, about what she says happened.
GORANI: And, by the way, the details of what she says happened are extremely disturbing.
Matt Lauer acknowledges that there was a sexual encounter that night and subsequently a sexual relationship. But he issued this very long letter
through his lawyer, disputing coercion here, saying that this was consensual.
STELTER: That's right. A stunning 1,400-word letter. I've never seen anything quite like this in the #MeToo movement, where one of these men
comes out so aggressively, saying that this woman is lying about him.
Here's part of the statement from Lauer. It says, "Brooke now says that she was terrified about the control I had over her career and felt pressure
to agree to our encounters after Sochi. But at no time during our relationship did Brooke work for me, the "Today Show," or "NBC News." She
worked for Meredith Vieira," who had a deal elsewhere at NBC, "in a completely different part of the network, and I had no role in reviewing
Brooke's work."
Look, that's a part of the story here, the power dynamic, the power imbalance. Prominent men at big companies, taking advantage of that power
by preying on women. In this book, Farrow alleges that Lauer is one of those guys, that that's what Lauer was doing, basically taking advantage of
women that were working at NBC.
And there is pressure on NBC to make sure they've cleaned up the environment. In fact, NBC came out again today and said that's the top
priority, to make sure everybody is safe in their workplace. That's the big picture story.
But really, specifically here, with regards to Brooke Nevils, she's not alleging an affair, she's alleging a crime. And that is something new.
When this first came out two years ago, when Lauer was fired, we were all told it was because of an inappropriate sexual act in the workplace. That
was an affair of some sort, not an alleged rape.
GORANI: Right. So what -- NBC has come out, has reacted. But what happens? This is an allegation of a crime. So what's the next chapter in
this sordid saga?
STELTER: Well, your mind -- I think your mind goes, right away, to statute of limitations and whether someone like Nevils wants to bring any case, and
whether she has enough evidence to back it up.
And oftentimes, when talking (ph) about these situations where someone says they were too drunk to consent, something that happened years ago, these
end up only being tried in the court of public opinion, and not in a real- life courtroom.
You know, originally, she didn't want money or anything, but she did end up getting a severance -- a settlement from NBC, apparently worth seven
figures.
Here's what NBC is saying today, reaffirming they believe Lauer's conduct was, quote, "appalling, horrific and reprehensible." They say that's why
he was fired within 24 hours of us first hearing of the complaint. And NBC went on to say, "Our hearts break again for our colleague."
The network also addressed this on the air in a really emotional moment on the "Today Show." Here's what Savannah Guthrie said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, FORMER TODAY SHOW CO-ANCHOR WITH MATT LAUER: You know, this is shocking and appalling and I honestly don't even know what to say
about it. I want to say that we -- I know it wasn't easy for our colleague Brooke to come forward then. It's not easy now.
And we support her and any women who have come forward with claims. And it's just very painful for all of us at NBC, and who are a the "Today
Show." And you know, it's very, very, very difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STELTER: The big-picture story here, according to Farrow, is what he calls a network news culture that made women feel uncomfortable and unsafe, and
left little room for accountability around its larger than life stars.
And that's a story we don't just see in television, not just in the media industry. That's a story we've seen over and over again for the past few
years, people who are not held accountable because they're somehow too big, too powerful, too rich. Hopefully, maybe we're starting to see that
change.
GORANI: Well, even by the standards of what we've read over the last few years, I have to say, the account of that night is extremely disturbing.
Thanks very much, Brian Stelter --
STELTER: Yes, it is.
[14:30:04]
GORANI: -- our chief media correspondent.
Still to come tonight, just days after the United States announced plans to pull troops out of Syria, Turkey makes its move. We'll have a live report
from the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Back to our top story. Turkey's move against Kurdish forces in Northern Syria. Turkish warplanes have been dropping bombs and reports the
Turkish army troops are gathered near the border.
We spoke, in fact, to an SDF spokesperson earlier, who said they anticipate a ground incursion. Turkey's president, Richard Tayyip Erdogan, says, the
Kurds are allied with rebels in his country and he wants to destroy, what he says, is a terror corridor.
We are seeing people flee this bombardment. This is a new CNN video coming to us from CNN in -- new CNN video in Northern Syria. There were several
towns that were targeted by Turkish air strikes, Ras al-Ayn, Tell Abiad.
But also as far as Qamishli, which is about 100 kilometers away from some of the areas that were bombed. And these civilians, where do they go?
That is the big question. Some of them even displaced from other parts of Syria, the misery for them continues.
Donald Trump has not said anything publicly about the fate of the United States Kurdish allies today. But the White House did issue a statement on
the Turkish operation.
This is the statement, in part. "The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea.
We expect Turkey to abide by all of its commitments and we continue to monitor the situation closely.
Now, Sarah Westwood is at the White House. And, Sarah, we all remember late on Sunday night that White House statement that appeared to
essentially not endorse the Turkish operation, but certainly send a signal to Turkey that it was absolutely fine with the idea of Turkish military
forces entering that part of Syria and also saying that U.S. troops boots on the ground would be evacuating that strip of land.
And now, we have this statement saying it's a bad idea. I'm a little confused. What's going on?
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right, Hala. And you're not the only one who's confused. There's been bipartisan backlash to the
president's move here. And part of the reason why he is getting criticism, not just from Democrats but also Republicans, also allies of the president
on Capitol Hill is because of the perception that in this instance, President Trump sort of bowed to the will of Turkish President, Erdogan, by
moving U.S. troops out of the way.
Now, that statement from today that you read simply stated that there are no U.S. troops in the area. As you mentioned that the U.S. has
communicated to Turkey that they think this is a bad idea.
[14:35:02]
Now, speaking earlier this week, President Trump did say that if Turkey were to behave in a way that the U.S. didn't consider humane, that there
would be economic consequences for Turkey, but of course, he is facing that backlash from Republicans, for example, Congresswoman Liz Cheney,
Republican, saying today that she was sickened by the images of the attacks that we've been seeing by the reports of this operation going underway as
Turkish forces have moved into Northern Syria.
So President Trump, we have not yet seen him on cameras since this incursion began, but certainly we will see him later this afternoon. So
perhaps he could face some questions about how his decision could be read by other allies. The implications by future alliances for the U.S. as well
and what -- and a move that is being widely perceived, Hala, as an abandonment of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic forces.
GORANI: All right. Sarah Westwood live at the White House.
Bilal Wahab is a Wagner fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and he joins me from Washington.
What do you make of this first day of this Turkish operation? What do you think they are signaling by bombing towns as far apart as Ras al-Ayn and
Qamishli? What do you think they're doing here?
BILAL WAHAB, WAGNER FELLOW, WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY: This is a sad day for the Kurds. It's in fact also surprising because the
understanding was that this is an effort by the Turkish government and the Turkish military to create a corridor in the Arab towns and their Kurdish
control of Syria in order to resettle some of the refugees.
But this seems to be an all-out war against the Syrian Democratic Forces which so far has been occurred an ally of the United States. And that will
result, definitely, in the short term in lifting the pressure off of ISIS on one hand, but also creating a new refugee crisis.
Remember, this is one of the safest part of Syria, it has been stable since the war against ISIS. And yet, this is another part of the country that's
going ablaze and this will have impact and implications also for stability and security in Syria's neighbors with a new round of refugee influx.
GORANI: What happens when there is a ground incursion? These two sides are so mismatched.
WAHAB: It's a question of whether the Kurdish forces of the Kurdish-led forces will fight, because that fight will obviously, as you mention, is
not balanced.
There is precedents of the Kurds not fighting and trying to preserve whatever that they could preserve when Afrin was attacked also by another
earlier incursion by the Turkish military. They decided to -- the Kurdish forces decided to pull back and avoid confrontation with the Turkish
military.
But this time around, the Turkish incursion invasion is so widespread then the Kurds might respond.
GORANI: What do you -- how do you interpret what the White House said today? This Turkey operation is a bad idea. That statement on Sunday seem
to indicate the U.S. was perfectly fine with Turkey advancing and doing pretty much whatever they want in that part of Syria. Today, they're
saying bad idea. What do you -- how do you react?
WAHAB: I think the bombs are louder than that statement, the image of plumes of smoke on your T.V. screens are going to be more meaningful than
this kind of statement which seems like --
GORANI: Do you think these are empty words?
WAHAB: Well, compared to what's going on, unfortunately, they are. And for the Kurds, this means even less than for anyone else. Because today,
Syrian Kurds feel that they're being attacked simply for who they are rather than for something wrong that they have done.
And they just do not understand why the president has, you know, betrayed them in their words or sold them in their word of another -- of another
Kurdish general that was quote in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. They just could not figure this out. And it's simply -- it's simply politics
and short termism playing out.
But obviously, the impact of this on U.S. ability to maintain partnerships in the future is going to be seriously undermine. I mean, I'm a Kurd from
Iraqi Kurdistan. And just today, friends -- you know, American friends including members of the military who have served in Iraq and served in
Syria, have just called me to offer the shock and their disappointment at this particular decision, because they have had so much camaraderie with
these Kurdish fighters in defeating ISIS.
And they cannot understand how the politics of Washington has allowed this tragedy to unfold.
[14:40:01]
GORANI: How do the Kurds you're speaking to, how do they explain this reversal of U.S. policy with regards to the SDF and the fighting forces in
Northern Syria? What do they think prompted Donald Trump to make this announcement?
WAHAB: In fact, they don't get it. The people that I have talked to do not understand. There was -- December of last year, there was a similar
call by the president to withdraw abruptly. But then the administration, the interagency, the different parts of the government including the
military have slowed that process down. So the military presence in Syria went down from 1,000 soldiers to -- from 2,000 soldiers to 1,000.
And all the Kurds ask for is for the American presence and the American flag to keep flying because that is their only protection against the
Turkish military. And rather than exert the energy on making peace between the Syrian Kurds and Turkish Kurds and the Turkish government which, so
far, that was the space that was created.
It seems that this time around, the president, again, very abruptly made that decision to allow this Turkish incursion, and there goes the chances
for peace.
GORANI: Bilal Wahab, thanks very much for joining us from Washington.
In Germany, police are investigating two deadly shootings, and a security official tells CNN, investigators believe that this was likely motivated by
a far-right ideology.
In the city of Halle, a woman was shot dead near a synagogue. Six hundred meters away, a man was killed at a kebab shop. Police say one person is
under arrest. It is not clear if there are more attackers.
Here's what we do know. A man with military gear was in the area opening fire in the middle of the street. You see images of him there. The
attacks happened on Yom Kippur. This is the holiest day of the Jewish calendar.
Melissa Bell is live with us from the scene.
GORANI: What more do we know about this suspect in the attack?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, a great deal more than we did. Because what we've learned really in the last hours of
existence of a video.
Apparently, the assailant had had a GoPro in what appeared to be the helmet that he was wearing. And so the entire attack appears to have been filmed,
the 35-minute video that was posted to a streaming website that usually streams videos. It's taking assistance to which, has condemned firmly this
attack and said that it will look into anyone who reposted this material.
So we have a much clearer idea of precisely what happened. First, Hala, an attack on this synagogue. We understand there were several dozen people
inside including, we understand a group of Americans who were there, marking as you said, Yom Kippur. And it was from there that the attacker
went on to this kebab shop and carried out an attack. Still others were inside there. One man was killed.
Tonight though -- although there has been this arrest, there is still -- we're hearing from authorities, an ongoing situation and a manhunt for
other suspects that may have been considered to be involved. And clearly what you see on this video is one single assailant carrying out these two
murders. Hala.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Melissa Bell, live there near Halle in German where these attacks took place.
Still to come tonight, ahead of the next U.S. presidential debate. Bernie Sanders announces a major change to his campaign, how his health is playing
a big role.
And his rival, Joe Biden, is taking his biggest swing yet at U.S. President Donald Trump. We'll have that just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:59]
GORANI: I want to update you on a story we've been following all week about China versus the NBA.
Chinese organizers have cancelled an event for NBA fans in Shanghai. The Shanghai Sports Federation says the fan event was cancelled because of what
it calls the inappropriate attitude of the NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, and the Houston Rockets' manager.
It is the latest fallout after the general manager of the Houston Rockets tweeted comments supporting the recent anti-government protests in Hong
Kong.
Even state side, the NBA is sensitive to China's influence. Two fans were ejected from a pre-season game, Tuesday in Philadelphia, against the
Chinese team.
Sam Wachs tells CNN he and his wife were escorted out after they began holding up signs and chanting, "Free Hong Kong."
I want to turn now to the 2020 race for the White House. U.S. democratic frontrunner, Joe Biden, is making his strongest case against President
Donald Trump yet, calling for his impeachment for the first time.
He says the U.S. president is, quote, shooting holes in the constitutional, unquote, and cannot get away with it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: With his words and his actions, President Trump has indicted himself by obstructing justice, refusing to
comply with the congressional inquiry. He's already convicted himself. In full view of the world and the American people, Donald Trump has violated
his oath of office, betrayed this nation, and committed impeachable acts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Meanwhile, his campaign is slamming Facebook over an ad that President Donald Trump's campaign posted on the platform. The video
accuses Biden of influencing Ukraine when he was vice president. Except there's no evidence for that claim.
Even then, Facebook is saying it is leaving the video up. Biden's campaign has since fired back.
CNN's Donnie O'Sullivan joins us live from New York. And the fact that Facebook is saying, we're keeping this video up even though claims in this
Donald Trump supported video have not been verified. Is Facebook essentially saying we're okay with misinformation on our platform?
DONNIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. They're saying that if you are a politician, if you're the president of the United States, that you can
post just about whatever you want, whatever lies you want on the platform.
Not only that, you can pay Facebook a lot of money, millions of dollars, in the case of some of these campaigns to target that misinformation at small
segments of voters. That's what you can do on Facebook.
Facebook considers this that they're in -- that they're in a pretty tough place. They don't want to be seen as the arbitrators of truce. They don't
want to be seen to be censoring anybody in any way, especially, if they are a public figure.
The Biden campaign actually wrote to Facebook and they said, well, that's nonsense. You guys should not be running lies, particularly from the Trump
campaign when it's aimed at the Biden campaign. And Facebook shot back and said, well, you know, America is a democracy. There is a vibrant press
here and the press will fact check this and politicians should basically be allowed to say what they like.
GORANI: And when you say they pay Facebook a lot of money, what kind of money are we talking about here to run an ad like that on Facebook?
O'SULLIVAN: Yes. I looked at -- so ads, you can -- you know, depending on what audience you want to reach on Facebook, you can just a few dollars,
you can spend hundreds of dollars or a thousands of dollars.
Since May 2018, so just about 16 months ago, the Trump campaign has spent $20 million on Facebook ads. Over the past 90 days, the Trump campaign
have spent $5 million, whereas the Biden campaign has spent $700,000.
Look, I mean, Facebook, you know, they got a lot of flat in 2016 for all the misinformation that was coming from Russia and elsewhere.
They've actually hired fact checkers to fact check false information coming from, you know, anonymous pages, but they said, we're not going to put
those fact checkers to work on somebody like Trump.
[14:50:11]
I think this is a position that possibly the company might revisit. But it was actually the deputy prime minister -- former deputy prime minister of
the United Kingdom, Nick Clegg, who now works at Facebook, who announced and confirmed this policy a few weeks ago, saying Facebook is not in the
business of fact-checking politicians.
GORANI: And how many people see it? Because so many people use Facebook and see these ads and they also see other fake news. I mean, we know how
this type of misinformation, how damaging it is to democracies. But these ads, how many -- can we calculate -- obviously, they have metrics. How
many people see them?
O'SULLIVAN: The specific ad on Trump -- on Biden and Ukraine has been not seen millions of times on Facebook. We should also mention that CNN
actually refused to air that out on the Trump campaign, tried to buy space on CNN's air.
You know, back to Facebook's arguments here where they say, well, fact- checkers, we have an open democracy, we'll check this, that argument would probably be a stronger argument in a world without Facebook. Because what
Facebook has allowed is people go into these echo chambers, you know, where they only see information from outlets that they agree with.
So it's actually quite possible that somebody could see a false ad and added false information and never see correcting information on Facebook
because they only see from platforms and people they agree with.
GORANI: Donnie O'Sullivan, thanks very much for that.
Another U.S. presidential candidate has been scaling back campaign events after suffering a heart attack last week. I'm talking, of course, about
Bernie Sanders.
He says he needs the strength to do what needs to be done. As CNN's Ryan Nobles reports, his health is not the only thing that he is dealing with on
the campaign trail. Ryan?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. Bernie Sanders remains at his home here in Burlington, recovering from that attack
that took place about a week ago. Sanders expected to stay off of the campaign trial in a big way until at least the CNN debate which is coming
up on October 15th.
But he did make a little bit of news yesterday. That's after a visit to his cardiologist, he talked to reporters and he said that he is going to
scale back his campaign operation, which is a pretty startling admission from Sanders. His breakneck pace, the endurance that he has as a candidate
is something of legend for Sanders.
So for him to say that he acknowledges the fact that his health is taking a turn, and he needs to scale things back is significant.
Now, Sanders would argue that he already had a much greater pace than some of the other Democrats in the field. They would often travel six days,
hold three to four events a day.
And by taking things down a notch is actually going to be more in line with some of the other Democrats in the field. But this is, obviously, going to
be a problem for him. He's now a 78-year-old man who recently had a heart attack, and this could easily be in the minds of voters as they make up
their mind as to who they want to pick as a democratic nominee to take on Donald Trump.
And as if he wasn't dealing with a lot of with his health, and with the rigors of running a presidential campaign, Sanders also learned this week
that his daughter-in-law, Raine Riggs, who is a wife of his son, Levi, passed away after a very short fought with cancer. The cancer popped up
out of nowhere and she died a short time later.
In fact, Sanders and his wife, Jane, found out about her death after he returned here to Burlington on Saturday. She was a very private person.
Not someone that campaigned openly for the Sanders campaign, but was close with the family.
So this is just a myriad of things that the Sanders family and the campaign are dealing with right now.
Sanders, again, not expected to be back on the campaign trail in a big way until after that debate on October 15th. But he does promise that this
does not mean his campaign is going anywhere. He's committed to winning the democratic nomination. He still believes that he can beat Donald
Trump. But this is definitely an obstacle that is standing in front of him at this point. Hala?
GORANI: Thanks, Ryan Nobles.
And this one poll reveals that U.S. senator, Elizabeth Warren is now the frontrunner among democratic presidential candidates. This is new. It's a
Quinnipiac poll, released Tuesday. Warren inched ahead of former U.S. vice president, Joe Biden, with 29 percent of support from democratic and
independent democratic leaning voters.
You could see the difference with August. It's a stark difference from that month when another similar Quinnipiac poll showed Warren trailing
Biden by more than 10 points. Warren is now at 29 percent, Biden at 26 percent versus 19 and 32.
More to come, including a piece of detective work, Sherlock Holmes's would be proud of, from an unexpected source.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:33]
GORANI: We finish with a tale that has gripped to the U.K. and the world. It involves, some may say, a fine piece of detective work. Enter Coleen
Rooney. You may know her as the wife of former England football captain, Wayne Rooney or as the wag, the term that describes the wives and
girlfriends of football players.
She tweeted earlier saying that stories from her personal Instagram account had been leaked to The Sun tabloid newspaper. She said that this has been
going on for years, and she couldn't figure out who it was. So what did she do? Well, she went to find the culprit.
And having her suspicion, she blocked all of her followers on her personal account except one. She then posted false stories to see if they would
make us flash on the newspaper. And low and behold, they did.
So if you've been following this in Coleen Rooney's eyes, this leaves, beyond any reasonable doubt, just one name as the sole culprit, Rebekah
Vardy. And get this, she's the wife of another England football player, Jamie Vardy. Vardy says she's not behind it.
Social media reaction has blown up. Some are comparing the drama of Rooneys reveal to some really deep detective work in pop culture.
By the way, there have been New Yorker reporters tweeting about this. Counter terrorism analyst tweeting about this. And you know what?
Sometimes Twitter is great for that kind of thing.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
