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Hala Gorani Tonight
Syrian Regime and Russian Forces Now in Manbij; Interview with M.P. Jeremy Hunt; Shifting Possible Outcomes in Brexit Negotiations; Rivals Turn Up The Heat On Warren As She Surges In Polls; British Teen's Parents Felt "Taken Advantage Of" By Trump; Police Warn Of Dangerous Escalation. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 16, 2019 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:39]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, Donald Trump says the Kurds in Syria are no angels, and says the U.S. should not get involved in a war between Turkey and Syria. We're on
the ground, details ahead.
Also this hour, deal or no deal, it is changing by the minute. We have the very latest on whether European leaders could agree on a Brexit agreement
with crucial deadlines looming.
And the parents of a young man killed in a motorcycle accident in the U.K., visiting the White House. We're stunned to learn that the woman who caused
their son's death was in the building. We'll tell you why they declined to meet with her.
Donald Trump says the U.S. pullout from northern Syria was, quote, "strategically brilliant" for the United States. The second week into
Turkey's assault on the Kurds, he says he's fine leaving the problem to Russia. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syria's pulling in. Syria probably will have a partner of Russia. So if Russia wants to get involved
with the -- with Syria, that's really up to them. They have a problem with Turkey, they have a problem at a border, it's not our border. We shouldn't
be losing lives over it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: It's not our border. Essentially, it's not our problem.
Mr. Trump also insists the Kurds are much safer now. You're looking at shelling by Turkey into a key Kurdish town. So here are the Kurds, working
with the Americans against ISIS a few years ago. But Mr. Trump says there are no angels. We'll go live to the White House in a moment.
Meantime, fighting in northern Syria is said to be intensifying. Key locations are changing hands very rapidly. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh was
there earlier in the offensive, and he joins me now from across the border in Iraq.
And you have new exclusive images, Nick, to talk to us about from northern Syria.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it beggars belief, one of the things Donald Trump said is that the PKK,
essentially one of the groups that formed part of the SDF, the Syrian Kurdish forces that fought ISIS on America's behalf, he said that they were
in fact in some ways worse than ISIS in terms of terrorist groups, kind of parroting, really, the Erdogan government in Turkey's talking points on all
of this.
But all this develops, all these comments in the White House come as the situation inside Syria develops very fast indeed. We think many people are
expecting at some point the meeting between President Erdogan of Turkey and President Putin of Russia to perhaps find some diplomatic traction here,
because it seems likely the American delegation, heading towards Ankara tomorrow, won't get much influence over President Erdogan's position.
But inside Syria itself, we've learned this evening that Syrian regime forces have moved into the town of Kobani, deeply strategic to the Syrian
Kurds, one (ph) in which they lost many lives in gruesome lengthy grueling fights to kick ISIS out of a town that essentially became rubble. This
comes as Syrian Kurds continue to lose lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH (voice-over): There's little light left for Syria's Kurds, who must bury their dead and their old allegiances.
It wasn't your time to die, my son. Why were you killed? She mourns. Your mistake was defending the country against invaders.
Take a moment to consider their world. They've grieved like this before, under American direction to fight ISIS, and buried 10,000 sons and
daughters. And now, America's president, in one phone call, has unleashed Turkey's NATO (ph) standard army and air force on them, and America's army
has reluctantly left them.
The martyr does not die (ph), she chants, one of many here who do not look like they will submit to Turkey's new borders here soon.
At the hospital in Qamishli, the doctors line up outside to receive the wounded. It is an endless stream. Despite eight days of fighting, Syrian
Kurdish fighters who complained so often at only having old Kalashnikovs to fight ISIS, are still holding Turkish forces back.
They have had some help, desperate enough to strike a deal with something worse than the devil: the Syrian regime, arriving here, quite far north in
the town of Tal Tamr.
14:05:01]
The flags may be so new they've just been unfolded, but the moves, the show of loyalty is old and practiced.
Our spirits are high and our will strong, he says.
We're here to defend Syrian land and people, another adds.
While diplomacy stalls in Ankara and soon the Kremlin, and the displaced scavenge shelter yet again, possibly hundreds of thousands are on the move
while the fighting continues.
Turkish President Erdogan wants control of a deep swathe of Syria, yet the Kurds are fighting hard for Ras al-Ain with the Syrian regime supporting in
nearby Tal Tamr.
Pro-Turkish forces push towards this road and the American base, west. But the regime and Russia are now in Manbij, setting both sides for a collision
in the city of Kobani.
Tuesday, Turkish-backed rebels fought fiercely for Ras al-Ain. U.S. officials have called them mostly extremists. Some, former ISIS. But
Turkey says they are the moderate face of the Sunni Arab Syrians who rightfully live here.
Yet again, Syria, ground to dust and rubble as forces and hatreds that are hard to restrain open another chapter in this endless saga.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PATON WALSH: Look, Hala, in short, it's unlikely (INAUDIBLE) in Ankara tomorrow, the Americans will have a huge amount of traction with President
Erdogan or with the Syrian Kurds, if they come up with some kind of political solution there to sell to them.
The focus now is, of course, in the Kremlin -- when eventually President Erdogan meets President Putin -- and on the town of Kobani. That is key to
both sides, symbolic deeply in the souls of Syrian Kurds -- they fought and died for it -- and for President Erdogan, to have his stretch of the
corridor along the border that he wants, he has to have Kobani. That's the flash point now, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, live in Erbil. Thanks very much.
Donald Trump didn't stop with his Oval Office statement on the Kurds. He went on to discuss them at a press conference. We broadcast it live, here
on CNN, last hour.
And as Nick was saying and as many of us have observed, he seemed to parrot talking points that his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, uses
very often. In fact, even talking points coming from Vladimir Putin himself.
As far as what Erdogan often says, he essentially said that the PKK is probably more dangerous than ISIS. The PKK is the militant Kurdish group
that is -- has been in open conflict with the Turkish central government, now, for years. Listen to this from just minutes ago by President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you look at the Kurds -- and, again, I say this with great respect -- they're no angels. If you look at PKK, take a look at PKK.
ISIS respects PKK. You know why? Because they're as tough or tougher than ISIS.
You take a look at a lot of the things having to do -- you have to say it, nobody wants to say it -- we're making the Kurds look like they're angels.
We paid a lot of money to the Kurds, tremendous amounts of money. We've given them massive fortunes. And you know what? It's wonderful. They
fought with us. But we paid a lot for them to fight with us.
But just so you understand, we were the ones that captured ISIS. People let some go, they opened a couple of doors to make us look as bad as
possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. And that was Donald Trump. He was holding a news conference, there, alongside the Italian president last hour. He's talking
about PKK, the group inside of Turkey.
Of course, the SDF is the force that the U.S. was financing and assisting, composed of YPG fighters but also Arab fighters as well. And this is the
group that fought very long and very hard in a bloody battle against ISIS, and managed to neutralize and contain and ultimately eradicate at least the
physical ISIS caliphate.
Let's go back to the U.S. president's comments about Syria. He's already getting backlash as top U.S. officials prepare to leave for Ankara in the
coming hours, after what he said. Abby Phillip is at the White House, where Mr. Trump has been meeting with the Italian president as we
mentioned.
And these comments, the PKK worse than ISIS, and Russia hates ISIS as much as the United States does, when we know the Russian and regime attacks in
Syria largely targeted anti-regime rebels and much less, much, much less ISIS positions.
These are really talking points by Erdogan and Vladimir Putin that are parroted by the U.S. president -- Abby.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Hala. And I think the big picture here is, as we prepare this afternoon for Vice
President Mike Pence to head to Turkey to try to broach some kind of ceasefire in the region, President Trump, in his comments today, seemed to
undermine that objective. He was, as you said, parroting a lot of the talking points that Erdogan has been saying for months and months now.
And in many ways, he's distancing himself and the United States from the entire conflict in general. He said, earlier today, that this has nothing
to do with us. And in many ways, his repetition of the comments that the Kurds are no angels and bringing in the issue of the PKK, seem to be trying
to undermine the sense in the United States, including among many Republicans, that the United States is throwing its allies, the Kurds,
under the bus by washing its hands of the conflict at large.
President Trump also took on one of his harshest critics on this particular issue, who is also an ally of his, Lindsey Graham, the senator from South
Carolina. Graham has been beating the drum for days now, including this very morning, saying that the president was on the verge of making the
biggest mistake of his presidency.
President Trump responded to that today by saying that Lindsey Graham needs to basically stay out of it and focus on what's happening in the Senate
Judiciary Committee instead.
GORANI: And in fact, here's that sound, Abby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We're going to sanction the hell out of Turkey. We're going to break their economy until they leave Syria. This
is a defining moment of Trump's presidency. If we abandon the Kurds, it will be to our shame and to our national security detriment. And Trump
will own the re-emergence of ISIS.
And if you think they're just coming after Europe and they don't represent a threat to the United States, you're sadly mistaken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Lindsey Graham would like to stay in the Middle East for the next thousand years, with thousands of soldiers and fighting other people's
wars. I want to get out of the Middle East.
The people of South Carolina don't want us to get into a war with Turkey, a NATO member, or with Syria. Let them fight their own wars. They've been
fighting for a thousand years, let them fight their own wars.
The people of South Carolina want to see those troops come home. And I won an election based on that, and that's the way it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: And this is a risky strategy, Abby, because the president needs his Republicans backers on Capitol Hill, and Lindsey Graham is one of the
most vocal Trump supporters in Washington.
PHILLIP: That's right. This issue has really cleaved President Trump's relationship with many of the Republicans who have stood by him through a
number of issues. They are frustrated that the president is making a move without consulting with his own military advisors and other experts in the
region.
But as he -- the president said in that clip, he is focused on the politics of this, which is what he promised to his voters in the 2016 election, that
he will pull out of foreign wars. And so he's really set on this plan of action.
In response to that, I think a lot of Republicans are willing right now and pushing to work with Democrats to put together some kind of sanctions
package, some kind of way of potentially punishing Turkey for what they are doing on the ground in northern Syria. The question is, is it too little
too late?
And is it enough to really make a difference, given that President Trump, whenever he talks about this issue, is saying almost the exact opposite of
what a lot of Republicans think need to be said in order to end the bloodshed and save lives.
GORANI: Abby Phillip, thanks very much, at the White House.
The president is also saying the exact opposite of what some of the United States' European allies have been saying. The United Kingdom is one of
them, and it has been urging Turkey to stop its operation. In fact, it suspended future arms sales to Turkey.
I spoke with the U.K.'s former foreign secretary and sitting member of Parliament, Jeremy Hunt, and I asked him about what Donald Trump said,
specifically that the Kurds are no angels and that the border issue, that he's happy for Russia to fill that vacuum. This is how he answered.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY HUNT, U.K. CONSERVATIVE MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Well, I don't agree with the decision that he's taken for a number of reasons, but first and
foremost, because I think America is a force for good in the world and I think the foundations of global peace and security that we've had since the
Second World War, have really been about the alliance of democracies with the U.S. at the head, but also the U.K. and other countries who have kept
the peace and stood up for the values we believe in.
So I'm sad to see America retreating from this part of the world, even though I appreciate it's a long way from America.
GORANI: Yes. But did he just hand northern Syria to the Assad regime and the Assad regime's Russian backers, who really didn't have to work very
hard to get that territory back?
HUNT: Well, of course, that's the other consequence of this, which is a big growth in the territory of the Assad regime, but also the influence of
Russia and Iran in this region.
And I think we also have to recognize, there are some risks in terms of global terrorism because if you look at the plots, the Islamist, extremist
plots that have been foiled in the last year, it's about double the previous year. And so that's not something we can take for granted.
[14:15:01]
But I don't put this all at President Trump's feet. I think there's been a trend towards isolationism in American foreign policy. I was very against
President Obama's decision not to take action against Assad after the chemical weapons attacks in 2013, which the U.K. also didn't do anything
about.
GORANI: Yes.
HUNT: And I think those of us that believe in this alliance of democracies, have got to ask what the root causes are, and what we can do
to try and change this direction in policy.
GORANI: Do you agree with the U.K., Germany and France's decision as well to suspend new arms sales to Turkey? And what do you think it would take -
- what would satisfy you in terms of seeing those arms sales resume? What would Turkey need to do?
HUNT: Well, I agree with that decision because, you know, I don't want Turkey to be going on the offensive against the Kurds, and I think that --
GORANI: But it's too late, isn't it, Jeremy Hunt?
HUNT: Yes. I mean, it may be too late to turn the clock back on the situation. But I don't agree with that decision. But I think that's a
symptom of a problem.
The bigger problem is why America is sanctioning a NATO ally for the second time in a year -- because, remember, we had all the issues around Pastor
Brunson -- and why these alliances that are so fundamental to global peace and security, are beginning to fragment.
And those of us that are concerned about that need to be asking what is the root cause of these problems.
GORANI: And it's utterly confusing to some because America is sanctioning a NATO ally, Turkey. But then it also greenlit its incursion into northern
Syria. So there are mixed messages there, do you agree?
HUNT: There are mixed messages. But I think, you know, President Trump has a very distinctive style. And he can change direction very quickly, he
keeps everyone guessing. But I think the root issue we've got here is about these strong alliances that we've grown up with.
And I would say that one of the big problems we've got at the heart of this, is the fact that America spends four percent of its GDP on defense,
whereas European countries spend two percent or less, 1.3 percent in the case of Germany. And I think from the point of view of the American
taxpayer, that doesn't seem like a fair deal.
GORANI: Yes.
HUNT: And unless we address that issue, I think we're going to see an increasing trend towards isolationist policies, which are in no one's
interest.
GORANI: A couple quick words on Brexit. Do you think a deal is possible? I've read that you're blaming the E.U. for, quote, "not understanding
British politics." Why is this the E.U.'s fault?
HUNT: Well, actually, what I said was, that I think the Brexit talks have been bedeviled by the fact that we haven't understood where the E.U.'s
coming from, and they haven't understood where we're coming from. And that's why it's been so difficult to resolve this.
And there has been a lack of understanding on both sides. But I think it is possible now, that we'll get a deal because I think that --
GORANI: So you're optimistic? You're optimistic?
HUNT: I'm cautiously optimistic. I think that what's changed is that they've seen on the E.U. side, Boris Johnson has a lead in the opinion
polls. And they've realized that if they trick the U.K. into an election, they may be having to deal with a Boris Johnson with a majority government
behind him, which he doesn't have at the moment. And that may be someone who's rather harder to deal with than the Boris Johnson they have now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And that was Jeremy Hunt, former foreign secretary of the United Kingdom, who knows a thing or two, by the way, about negotiating with the
E.U. He was in that position in the Theresa May government, and we are still waiting to see whether there will be an announcement of a tentative
Brexit deal because the clock is ticking.
Negotiators for Britain and the European Union have been holding secret talks in hopes of reaching an agreement that can be presented to the
European Council on Thursday. While some E.U. leaders are expressing cautious optimism, they admit it's still not a done deal, obviously.
And that is going to be a big question because, let's remember -- and I'm going to ask our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson this
question, Nic -- if there is no deal, there is a law in the books in this country that would force the prime minister, Boris Johnson, to ask for an
extension.
His Brexit secretary said in the last 24 hours that, yes, the government would abide by the law. The prime minister previously had said he'd rather
be dead in a ditch than ask for a delay. But it seems as though the government is at least conceding now that they will not break the law and
have to ask for an extension if there's no deal. What are you hearing in Brussels?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, and if we dig back a little more into the sort of lines that have come out from Number
10, Boris Johnson's chief spin doctor just over a week ago, were -- it was believed to be it was him that was the source widely reported, the U.K.
political media -- that in fact, there were a number of ways that they could essentially frustrate that Benn Act.
[14:20:05]
But, yes, we have heard that in the last 24 hours, the prime minister will follow through with it.
Where things stand here right now, just as that sense of teetering on the brink -- and we feel like we've been here before, of course, we just had
Emmanuel Macron, the French president, along with Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, meeting in Toulouse, holding a joint press conference after
visiting the Airbus plant there.
Both of them, sounding very upbeat. Merkel, saying she feels like they're in the home strait. Macron, saying that he feels like the deal can be done
in the next couple of hours.
And to add to that, you had Michel Barnier, the chief negotiator, apparently right now briefing E.U. ambassadors about where things stand, a
discussion that's been pushed back through the afternoon into the early hours this evening, giving the impression that it was all on the verge of
happening.
However, Donald Tusk , the E.U. Council president, has given his view on where he thinks everything stands. This was lunchtime today. Yesterday
seemed to be more optimism. This is how he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT (through translator): Yesterday, I was ready to bet that the deal had been reached and was certain. Today,
some doubts appeared from the British side. While the situation in British parliament is complicated, I still hope. I'm hopeful for (INAUDIBLE)
though. Because for the rest of my life, I will remain a supporter of the European Union with Great Britain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: So what are those E.U. ambassadors learning from the E.U.'s chief negotiator right now? Well, maybe they are learning that it is going
to come to the British prime minister being tested by the British parliament on Saturday, not having a deal, being pushed to follow through
on what his foreign secretary says he will do, ask the E.U. for that three- month extension.
It doesn't feel we're quite, quite, quite at that moment yet. Two other options? No deal, of course, or a technical extension, which I think is
where everyone was expecting it to get to by close of play today.
GORANI: Right. And briefly, what Jeremy Hunt said that was interesting, is he essentially said the Europeans are looking at opinion polls and they,
perhaps, will be a little more motivated to strike a deal because there is a concern that if there's a general election, Boris Johnson could come back
with a real majority, which he doesn't have now, and then it would be a lot more difficult to come to some sort of agreement, and they just want to
draw a line under this. Is that what you're hearing?
ROBERTSON: Look, there's a sense of that as well. But let's not forget who we're hearing it from. We're hearing it from the former foreign
secretary, who'd love to be back in the cabinet, touting that his Conservative Party is doing well and would win an election.
Now, that sounds like somebody who's talking up his own side, you know, if you talked to the Labour Party, you know, they're all -- they, if they can
get this, the Benn Act goes through, there's an extension, they believe that they will have a good run.
But -- and so maybe Boris Johnson won't do as well as his former foreign secretary thinks he might. The calculation here --
GORANI: Right.
ROBERTSON: -- is that there's an opportunity to get the deal done, everyone wants to get it done. I'm not sure they --
GORANI: Yes.
ROBERTSON: -- buy into that yet, that Boris Johnson could come out as definitively on top as perhaps we've heard there.
GORANI: All right, we'll see. Although he did lose to him in the leadership contest, so perhaps they're not as friendly with each other.
They are from the same party, though, you're right.
Thanks very much. Nic Roberson is live in Brussels, and he will be covering this important story over the next several days.
Still to come tonight, this former senior official resigned from the Trump administration just last week. Now, Michael McKinley is sharing his
concerns with the House impeachment inquiry. The very latest on that story is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:25:59]
GORANI: Well, it is all going very, very quickly in this impeachment inquiry. Congressional committees are meeting with their fifth witness in
this investigation. Michael McKinley is testifying behind closed doors today, less than a week after resigning from the State Department.
A source tells CNN McKinley stepped down as senior advisor to the Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, over his concerns about the department's leadership.
Despite McKinley's senior position, the president brushed off his testimony earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I don't even know these people. And for the most part, people, like that are testifying, I don't even know who they are. I never even
heard of some of them, most of them. But I have all these people testifying. And then they leak out. They don't say the good parts, they
only say the bad parts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Sunlen Serfaty joins us now from Capitol Hill. What did we learn from this McKinley closed-door testimony? Anything coming out of it?
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, it is still ongoing. But from what sources tell CNN, it really has been, so far, about
his concern of what was going on behind the scenes within the State Department, and the reason for his abrupt resignation last week, now less
than a week ago.
He is someone that (ph) is a longtime diplomat, someone who is a top aide to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, so certainly raised eyebrows last week
with his resignation.
And really, laying out the reasons for this resignation as it relates to the controversy over what's happening with Ukraine and the impeachment
inquiry.
Now, according to sources, he, in that closed-door room, was telling lawmakers about how he repeatedly urged the secretary of state, Mike
Pompeo, to show support for Marie Yovanovitch, who of course is the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine. She, of course, was recalled from her
position, abruptly, earlier this year.
So McKinley was essentially saying Pompeo, you've got to say something here. You've got to show support in light of her being targeted by Rudy
Giuliani, in light of her being criticized by the president of the United States, President Trump.
And essentially, that was not something that happened. Pompeo did not defend her, and that clearly set of McKinley, who said he could not
understand why the secretary of state was not offering the support of the people who worked within the building.
So, really laying out here, Hala, the reasons for his resignation, certainly lawmakers wanting to know how this relates to their own Ukraine
investigation, as it relates to impeachment. And certainly, a big testimony in the middle of a very big week, up here on Capitol Hill.
Most notably, tomorrow, a huge testimony from Gordon Sonderland, former E.U. ambassador, certainly what -- many lawmakers want to hear from him.
And his name keeps coming up, so much. So, again, a huge blockbuster week up here on the Hill.
GORANI: All right. Sunlen Serfaty, thanks very much.
[14:28:51]
Still to come tonight, some sharp exchanges as American Democrats crowd onto the debate stage. Elizabeth Warren had to sustain some attacks, as
she is now seen as a frontrunner. Also coming up this evening, the family of British teenager Harry Dunn meets with the U.S. president. The shocking
opportunity he offered, and their reaction is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:35]
GORANI: Can you imagine we're still more than a whole year away from the U.S. presidential election? But it doesn't feel like it. It feels like
it's very soon. That's because there are so many debates and we're talking about it every day and the campaign is so long.
Yesterday, 12 democratic hopefuls took to the debate stage. They all took direct aim at Donald Trump and the escalating impeachment's inquiry.
But As M.J. Lee reports, the candidates also zeroed in on the undisputed frontrunner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator Elizabeth Warren under attack at Tuesday's democratic debate, pressed on how she'd
pay for Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All plans.
WARREN: Let me be clear on this, costs will go up for the wealthy. They will go up for big corporations. I will not sign a bill into law that does
not lower costs for middleclass families.
LEE: Warren's moderate rivals unsatisfied with her answer.
MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D-IN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your signature, Senator, is to have a plan for everything. Except this.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I appreciate Elizabeth's work, but again, the difference between a plan and a pipe dream
is something that you can actually get done.
LEE: Senator Amy Klobuchar also criticizing Warren's wealth tax plan.
KLOBUCHAR: I want to give a reality check here to Elizabeth, because no one on this stage wants to protect billionaires. Not even the billionaire
wants to protect billionaires. We just have different approaches.
LEE: The Massachusetts senator fighting back.
WARREN: But I think as Democrats, we are going to succeed when we dream big and fight hard. Not when we dream small and quit before we get
started.
LEE: Warren, not the only candidate on stage on their heels. Former Vice President, Joe Biden, defending his son Hunter's work in Ukraine in the
wake of the scandal rocking Washington.
BIDEN: My son did nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong. I carried out the policy of the United States government in rooting out corruption in
Ukraine.
LEE: Biden explaining why he believes he's Trump's target.
BIDEN: He's going after me, because he knows if I get -- if I get the nomination, I will beat him like a drum.
LEE: Senator Sanders returning to the campaign after a heart attack, ready to move on from questions about his health.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Sanders, I want to start. We're moving on.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm healthy and feeling great, but I would like to respond to that question.
LEE: On gun control, Mayor Pete Buttigieg implying former Congressman Beto O'Rourke's mandatory buyback proposal is unachievable.
BUTTIGIEG: We cannot wait for purity tests. We have to just get something done.
BETO O'ROURKE (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not a purity test. This is a country that loses 40,000 of our fellow Americans every year to
gun violence. This is a crisis. We've got to do something about it.
BUTTIGIEG: I don't need lessons from you on courage, political or personal. Everyone on this stage is determined to get something done.
LEE: Buttigieg also clashing with fellow combat veteran, Tulsi Gabbard, over President Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria.
REP. TULSI GABBARD (D-HI), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What you're saying, Mayor Pete, is that you would continue to support having U.S. troops in
Syria for an indefinite period of time to continue this regime change war.
BUTTIGIEG: What we were doing in Syria was keeping our word. This president has betrayed American values. Our credibility is in tatter.
LEE: But one topic all the candidates can agree on --
JULIAN CASTRO (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to impeach this president.
ANDREW YANG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I support impeachment.
HARRIS: I don't really think this impeachment process is going to take very long. Because as a former prosecutor, I know a confession when I see
it.
[14:35:04]
TOM STEYER (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every candidate here is more decent, more coherent, and more patriotic than the criminal in the White
House.
LEE: Senator Cory Booker, again, asking the field to focus on their collective goal, defeating the president.
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tearing each other down, because we have a different plan, to me, is unacceptable. I have seen this
script before. It didn't work in 2016. And it will be disaster for us in 2020.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: M.J. Lee reporting.
CNN political commentator, Karen Finney, joins me now from Washington. She was a senior spokeswoman on Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign.
Thanks for being with us.
Karen, so who was the winner as far as your concerned last night?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I actually thought that Elizabeth Warren came out on top. It was the first time she really was a frontrunner
in one of these debates. And while, as you showed, she took fire from all sides. She handled it well, she, you know, didn't get flustered, she was
firm, and strong, and hung tough. And so I think she had a very good night.
GORANI: And what about Joe Biden? Because He was the frontrunner for a very long time. And Elizabeth Warren now is threatening that position. In
fact, according to the latest polls, she's ahead of him.
FINNEY: Yes. So, former vice president, Biden, also had a good night. There was really one exchange -- he was very animated in many portions
throughout the night. There was the one exchange that I think has been is -- was cringed worthy and is getting a lot of attention, and that is the
exchange that he had with Senator Warren about the CFPB, the corporation -- the idea that she really came up with on the consumer financial protection
bureau.
You know, it was an idea she conceived while she was a professor and she really fought for it and help make it happen and come to life. And he kind
of took a bit of credit where maybe credit wasn't quite due.
And then they had this exchange where, you know, he said well, you did a good job and it just hit people the wrong way. It was condescending and it
shows sort of the gender dynamics on the stage.
GORANI: And this wouldn't be the first Joe Biden faux pas where he sounds maybe like he's from another era? And I do wonder if he hit -- the trend
for Biden is not good. The trend for Warren is good. She's going up, he's going down. They cross paths at one point. And now, it seems like she's
kind of leaving him behind. Can she sustain that momentum?
FINNEY: Well, that's what we'll have to see. I mean, we'll see what kind of bump she gets coming out of this debate, as you point out. I mean, she
has been moving up very steadily in the polls, just really doing the hard work, focusing on the fundamentals of campaigning and working hard.
The other thing that she has, you know, fund raising numbers reporting that former vice president Biden has a lot less than she does cash on hand. She
not only raised more money than him, she's raising it from small dollar donors. And those are people that you can go back again and again and
again to keep raising. So she knows she's got the money to compete well into next year and do what she needs to do.
GORANI: And you've obviously been on the inside of these campaigns. Can she beat Trump in the debate? I mean, how would you envision a Trump-
Warren debate?
FINNEY: Yes. You know --
GORANI: Because the ones -- I'm sorry to jump in. The ones between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, there was a lot of tension, there was some very
uncomfortable moments. I wonder how a Warren-Trump debate would play out.
FINNEY: You know, I think we got our first insight into that last night, actually. And that was again, in this exchange with Joe Biden where he
said, you know, when they're talking about the corporation, the CFPB, and he said, you know, well, you did a good job at your job. And she said,
well, thank you, and kind of kept going, and didn't break her stride and pushed back.
You know, I thought, you know what? She'll do just fine up against Donald Trump. She knows her stuff and she has the ability to come back with a
very quickly and very forcefully.
GORANI: And, Karen, a quick word on the others who are, of course, not frontrunners, not top tier candidates, but Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar,
what role did they play in this race at this stage?
FINNEY: So in the way things have sort of broken out, right? People, they're, sort of, Senator Sanders and Senator Warren are sort of more to
the left. Although I would argue some of the things they talk about are more popular in America than they, sometimes, get credit. But we'll leave
that there for now.
And then you've got, sort of, Pete -- you've got vice president Biden, kind of is the -- seen as the moderate. And Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar
were -- are both vying for that space, right? To be the alternative, if you will, moderate.
And I think, you know, Mayor Buttigieg, again, had a very strong performance last night. He was very on point, he had good ideas, his
exchange with Beto got a little snarky. And Klobuchar also had a really great night last night.
[14:40:13]
Here's the challenge. Mayor Pete Buttigieg has the -- has the money. He's been fund raising quite well. So I think he'll be able to continue
competing well into the next several months.
Unfortunately, Senator Klobuchar's fund raising hasn't been going as well. So even though she had a great night, unclear if that's really going to her
coming out of this debate.
And then for the others, you know, most of the others, they were fine. Again, it's just we're getting to the point where you really have to have
the financial resources and be able to go to donors and make a credible case that you could be the nominee to be able to continue to compete. And
that's getting tougher and tougher.
Karen Finney, thanks very much for joining us.
FINNEY: You bet.
GORANI: Strong words from the family of a British teen killed in a motorcycle accident in this country involving the wife of an American
diplomat. Their spokesperson says they felt defiled after listening to President Trump speak earlier about their White House meeting.
In that meeting on Tuesday, Mr. Trump dropped a bomb shell to the parents of this dead teenager. CNN's Anna Stewart reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNA STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They arrived in America with one objective, getting Anne Sacoolas the suspect of a
tragic death of their teenage son back on British soil.
Seven weeks ago, Harry Dunn was fatally injured in a road collision in his home in England. This family have had to put grief to one side to seek
justice.
Sacoolas, the wife of a U.S. diplomat, was interviewed twice by British police. They say she cooperated but then left the U.K. about three weeks
following the accident protected under diplomatic immunity.
Police say they are still investigating and expect to commit submit a case file to prosecutors. This week, she broke her silence in a statement via
her attorney, she admitted fault. "Anne was driving on the wrong side of the road and is terribly, terribly sorry for that tragic mistake."
Harry's parents, Charlotte Charles and Tim Dunn were invited to the White House Tuesday, along with their family spokesperson, Radd Seiger, hoping
President Trump would intervene.
It was a meeting that took an unexpected turn. Sacoolas was in the next door room.
CHARLOTTE CHARLES, HARRY DUNN'S MOTHER: We are still more than willing to meet her. But we made it very clear that that means to be on our terms, on
U.K. soils when has to face our justice system.
STEWART: Next morning reflecting on White House meeting, Seiger says the family felt ambushed. And given the bank of photographer's presence, they
say it appeared to be a choreographed press corp.
RADD SIEGER, DUNN FAMILY SPOKESPERSON: That did take us by surprise because we had -- we had resolved that that's not something we were
prepared to do at this moment. This family is still is emotionally shut down. And that, as you can all imagine, it was potentially a difficult
meeting.
STEWART: The president described the meeting differently.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My meeting with the family was really -- it was beautiful in a certain way. They did not want to meet
with the person in question. But we had a very good meeting. They're nice people.
STEWART: He expressed his condolences but also empathize with the position of Sacoolas.
TRUMP: That happens in Europe, you go to Europe and the roads are opposite. And it's very tough. If you're from the United States, you do
make that decision to make a right turn where you're supposed to make a left turn and the roads are opposite. And she said that's what happened.
That happens to a lot of people, by the way.
STEWART: In this case, a 19-year-old has died.
Anna Stewart, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Still to come tonight. Pictures you won't soon forget. North Korea's leader, and you might not want to see, in fact, galloping around on
a white horse. Kim Jong-un has used this location to signal some dramatic political moves. We'll bring you that story later in the program.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:07]
GORANI: One way to know if you're an embattled leader is when you can't even finish a speech because of the boos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Hong Kong's chief executive was driven out while trying to give her annual policy address. Carrie Lam's planned comments -- her planned
comments, I should say, were heavy on affordable housing and life on a political solution.
Pro-democracy politicians stood on desks and shouted at her, demanding she step down. Well, she did, but just from the podium. The leader who is not
stepping down from her post, of course, delivered her address on tape instead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: While politicians shout and stump up, Hong Kong police are dealing with a dangerous escalation of violence around the protest, most recently
an attack on a protest organizer.
We now have a photo of that incident, but we must warn you that it is graphic. You see here Jimmy Sham lying on the ground after he was attacked
by around four to five men with hammers. Sham is conscious and being treated for his head injuries.
Separately, police say they arrested two men for possessing explosives and illegal weapons. The arrest were not connected to an explosion on Sunday.
And Will Ripley is on the ground in Hong Kong and has the very latest for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the middle of a chaotic Sunday night of protest, an explosion so loud, it stood out
from the symphony of sirens in this Hong Kong neighborhood. Police standing more than 30 feet away felt the shockwave.
RIPLEY (on-camera): If this device had gone off in a crowd of people, what could have happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bombs are indiscriminate, they don't target police officers. Wherever that bomb had gone off, anybody who had been close
proximity to it would have risk serious injury.
RIPLEY: He says the bomb was remote controlled, detonated using a mobile phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the first incident where it was clearly attempting to target police officers.
RIPLEY: Why is that significant that police were the target in this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's significant as -- it's a step up. We've seen attacks on police. But a bomb is indiscriminate, and a bomb is
premeditated.
RIPLEY (voice-over): On Tuesday, police raided two apartments in Hong Kong, discovering raw materials, they say, could be used to make bombs.
They arrested two males, ages 17 and 23, accused of possessing explosives and illegal weapons, as well as unlawful assembly.
Investigators have not linked the suspect to Sunday's explosion, a blast, police say, marks a dramatic escalation in the violence, now in its fourth
month.
At this warehouse in July, Hong Kong police say they found two kilograms of TATP, an explosive used in many terror attacks around the world. Police
say it was enough to destroy a building.
RIPLEY (on-camera): The July raid of this warehouse and the huge amount of explosives found underscores a major challenge for police. Most of the
ingredients to make a remote-controlled bomb are common household items like these, all easy to find and legal to buy here in Hong Kong.
We found many of those items in less than two hours visiting three Hong Kong stores, purchased separately, they may not raise red flags. Together,
police say, they can be deadly.
LEVI WEST, TERRORISM EXPERT: You have the kind of quantities of explosives and plus those ingredients is very, very concerning.
RIPLEY (on-camera): Terrorism expert, Levi West, says this could indicate a new level of extremism in Hong Kong, but he says it's likely not part of
a larger coordinated plot.
WEST: If it is related to the protest movement, then I think you would be looking at outlaws within that movement, rather than a decision from the
leadership.
RIPLEY: For Hong Kong police, facing increasingly violent attacks, including an officer slashed in the neck, this is a game changer.
[14:50:12]
Will Ripley, CNN, Hong Kong.
GORANI: In North Korea, a symbolic journey to an iconic site. And take a look at a picture in this case. Worth more than a few words. That's Kim
Jong-un, riding a horseback at Mt. Paektu.
The North Korean dictator is known to visit the mountain as a precursor to major political decisions leaving many asking, well, what's on the horizon?
For example, back in 2013, he visited that very mountain before ordering the execution of his uncle. On the other hand, he took South Korea
president there during peace talks last year. Which way will it go? We'll just have to wait and see.
Shifting gears now to the designs that have shaped our modern life. Think the simplicity of the Apple iPhone or the complexity of the rockets that
take astronauts to the moon. One man is taking this philosophy all the way to Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAVI NAIDOO, FOUNDER, DESIGN INDABA: The last 25 years with Design Indaba has been looking at corralling these talents across the world to inspire
the next generations of Africans, but then as well to convert this inspiration with Africans into product and into platforms and into
projects.
And so it's been a think tank and do tank and it triggered over 200 projects from expensive things like Africa's first museum of contemporary
African art, through to modalities for low-cost housing.
We were commissioned by IKEA to corral together a set of designs from across Africa. It's been sold out. It has been fiercely successful.
So Design Indaba has become this amazing space, where we give credit people the head and we give them the opportunity. And very often, through
commissions to be able to put stuff out into public domain just to act as a capitalist.
Very few of these things, we've got any commercial intent from. But it's mostly a whack to the side of the head that says Africa, how about this?
There are lots of design fairs around the world that tends to be quite mercantile and there are other spaces where designs used as a space for
R&D, for experimentation, for looking at social issues.
And I think as subscribe to that church, as oppose to design just being handmade into consumption. And the question is that, how can we use design
and the tool kit that are on design not just serve brands but to look towards solving problems at the day.
(INAUDIBLE) water is a design challenge. Better housing is a design challenge. And I find increasingly the widest scope for what design is.
One of the biggest spheres and areas that design is growing into is design for social impact and helping fundamentally in improving the quality of
life. So there's huge scope for creativity, design, and innovation.
In 1999, we were responding to a citizen that said they were more phones in Manhattan than all of Africa. We fast forward 2019 and here's Africa, the
vanguard of 5G.
And in South Africa, we're involved in a project called Rain, which is just launched Africa's first 5G network, and I think is the sixth in the world.
I think this gives you a lot of confidence and a lot of heart in terms of what technology allows Africa to do is to leapfrog. And maybe miss a few
developmental steps and go all the way to the bleeding edge.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: More to come including from a keen-eyed Fox stocking its prey to a herd of antelope gliding through the snow. We'll bring you the winner of
the prestigious wildlife photographer of the year award. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:29]
GORANI: The duke and duchess of Cambridge are continuing their tour of Pakistan. Last night, the couple made a grand entrance in a colorful tour
rickshaw in the country's capital, Islamabad.
Today, Prince William and his wife, Kate, visited a melting glacier in the Hindu Kush Mountains. The intention there was to highlight the impact of
the climate crisis.
Winter is coming and in the wild, the season can be Animals are struggling to stay warm and food can be in short supply.
But let me take you to the snowy mountain slopes of Central China, the setting of the image that one man who captured it, the prestigious wildlife
photographer of the year award.
Look at this fox, a Tibetan fox, lurking behind its prey, keen-eyed with razor sharp focus and what can only be described as a moment of shock or
armament, frozen in fear.
Well, although it's frozen in the picture but it looks like it's break it or leg it. Its jaw wide opened, perched on one foot, scrambling to run
away.
Appropriately titled, "The Moment." The judges described the Chinese photographer's image as simply the perfect moment.
Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. But we're going to leave you with some of the
category winners of that photography context. Enjoy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
