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Hala Gorani Tonight
New Coronavirus Diagnosis Method Leads to Uptick in Cases; Iran War Powers Resolution Passed in Senate; Sajid Javid Resigns as British Chancellor of the Exchequer. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 13, 2020 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London on this Thursday, I'm Hala Gorani.
Tonight, cases of coronavirus have hit a new peak. We'll cross to Beijing to tell you why.
And there are more signs of the virus outside of China, including one new case here in London.
Plus, Prince Harry's new life, very new life: The royal could be doing a deal with banking giant Goldman Sachs.
China's reporting a record number of new coronavirus infections. Overnight, officials counted more than 15,000 cases and 254 new deaths. That rockets
the global total to more than 60,000 infections, the vast majority, of course, inside China.
But while those numbers sound alarming, there is -- potentially at least -- a less scary reason for that dramatic jump. Hubei Province, the epicenter
of the outbreak, is now counting what are called "clinically diagnosed" cases. Now, those are people who show all of the symptoms of the
coronavirus but who have not been lab-tested. And officials are counting old cases that have not been classified before.
But any way you look at it, we are not seeing a peak here. We're not going downhill in terms of the number of cases reported. David Culver is in
Beijing with more on what's behind these numbers -- David.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hala. It's still a bit confusing, and it doesn't really set a trend either way because we're still trying to
figure out these numbers. But essentially, they do combine the confirmed positive patients who have been tested, and those who have not been tested
but have been clinically diagnosed with the illness.
Now, Chinese health officials suggest that this change will actually give more people access to coronavirus treatments, especially given the delays
in testing and the shortage of testing kits that we've actually been reporting on.
While the WHO says such a change in classifications is normal during an outbreak, it should also be noted that here, it coincides with some
political changes. The two most senior officials of Hubei Province and the city of Wuhan -- as you pointed out, the epicenter of this outbreak -- have
been fired, replaced by proteges of President Xi Jinping.
In the meantime, new cases are showing up every day and as we've learned, they're often among those trying to fight the infections.
CULVER (voice-over): China has likened it to a military operation, a nation's battle against the deadly novel coronavirus. It's placed health
care workers, doctors and nurses on the frontlines.
Early on in the fight against the epidemic, Chinese state media aired emotional interviews like this one, one of the nurses explaining how she
had to reassure her own parents.
JIANG WEI, INTENSIVE CARE UNIT NURSE, JINYINTAN HOSPITAL (through translator): I always say it's OK since we are well-protected. Actually, I
was just saying that to give them peace of mind. We're actually afraid and worried. But as long as we're on duty, our own sense of mission will
support us to do the job.
CULVER (voice-over): While Chinese officials and state media praised the medical workers for their heroic efforts, CNN has spoken with some who feel
as though they've been sent into battle without armor. As a result, they say many of their colleagues have gone from treating patients to becoming
One Wuhan hospital nurse -- who asked we not identify her, fearing repercussions for speaking with the media -- told us by text, "Right now
it's really a problem, our hospital has more than a hundred people who are quarantined at home."
She's one of them. She says a chest scan revealed that she had a suspected case of the virus. That same nurse, describing to CNN the shortage of
medical supplies, often being posted on Chinese social media site Weibo.
These images, posted on state-run "People's Daily" Weibo account show medical personnel in a Wuhan hospital, so desperate that they resorted to
creating protective gear out of plastic trash bags. It's something Chinese health officials have publicly acknowledged.
And even while they have ramped up production of supplies, some feel it's arriving too late. And this nurse posted that she contracted the virus and
is now a patient at the same hospital where she works. "The (in-patient) floor I life on is basically filled with colleagues from my hospital," she
posted. Adding, "I'm afraid the virus inside my body will come out and infect these colleagues who are still standing fast on the frontline."
IVAN HUNG, CHIEF OF DIVISION OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE, HONG KONG UNIVERSITY: It is, it is a battle.
CULVER (voice-over): We video-chatted with Dr. Ivan Hung, an infectious disease doctor at Hong Kong University Hospital. He warns it is not the
health care workers working directly with the coronavirus patients who are most at risk. But rather?
HUNG: Those who are in the general medical ward or in the emergency, I (ph) have (ph) seen (ph) emergency areas where they triage these patients, where
they are not -- perhaps not aware that they are actually carrying the virus.
CULVER (voice-over): That is precisely what happened to Dr. Li Wenliang. The 34-year-old Wuhan ophthalmologist contracted the virus in mid-January,
just two weeks after trying to sound the alarm of a then-mysterious SARS- like illness. Local police reprimanded him.
Li spoke with CNN briefly by phone on January 31st. Struggling to communicate, you could hear the hospital machines pulsing in the
LI WENLIANG, OPHTHALMOLOGIST (through translator): I can barely breathe.
CULVER (voice-over): He died a week later. Li's death and the fight so many health care workers are now enduring a reminder of the dangers facing
those tasked to stop the spread.
GORANI: And I want to ask you just a question on another angle of the story that's extremely interesting because the Chinese government --
obviously, you talked about the firing of those local officials, but there have been --
GORNI: -- very rare public calls for accountability, you've had academics and intellectuals sign open letters online, demanding transparency. Talk to
us a little bit about this reaction from the general public to the epidemic.
CULVER: Well, you do have citizen journalists exposing concerns and they're calling for changes, especially at the local level. And at least
one case, we actually found out authorities forced a man into quarantine, one of those citizen journalists.
And then I mentioned that whistleblower there in the piece, Dr. Li Wenliang. And last week, we saw people expressing their frustrations and
calling online, even, for freedom of speech.
CULVER: Now, those posts were quickly censored. But I've got to tell you, Hala, the vast majority of folks who are speaking out are not really trying
to make a political statement. Many of them are simply seeking clarity on this, and others -- particularly within Wuhan -- still are increasingly
desperate. They're looking for help, they're trying to get tested and then they're hoping to actually get to the treatment. So perhaps this new
classification, if it's really not all that politicized and if it really works, will allow for that.
GORANI: All right. David Culver, thanks very much.
To our viewers, we'll be speaking to a China specialist a little bit later this hour for more on this reaction from ordinary citizens and people, as
David was mentioning -- David Culver mentioning there -- openly asking for freedom of speech, even though some of these posts, as David reported, were
quickly taken down.
Now, the coronavirus is impacting the global economy in a major way. It (ph) will be impacting you, me, many others thousands of miles away from
China. For instance, the International Energy Association said Thursday it expects global demand for oil will shrink this quarter for the first time
in a decade. Disney -- Disney says the virus could impact its release of the live-action remake of "Mulan," a film that had been expected to be one
of the biggest movies of the year in China.
Nissan is under pressure, bracing for an impact from coronavirus. After another big drop in quarterly profits, the carmaker says it is having
trouble getting parts from Chinese factories. It had been hoping to restart two of its plants in China next week; that doesn't appear like it will
Let's bring in the anchor of "QUEST" -- the host of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS," Richard Quest. So, Richard, let's talk a little bit about -- I think most
people outside of China, their first question would be, look, when is this -- beyond feeling, you know, empathy and sympathy for the people who are
ill, when will this impact me, ordinary people outside of Asia, economically?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Oh, I think it already has but not to the same extent. You'll see it in various ways. For example, the price of
oil. At the very macro level, you are seeing a fall in the price of oil because the demand for world oil will be lower because China doesn't have
the same requirement.
Well, when the price of oil falls, it doesn't just fall for China. It falls for consumers around the world.
Secondly, small businesses in the U.K. and Europe and the United States that source their parts, they have been, for the past several weeks, trying
to find them elsewhere or managing to do it by other means.
There's not going to be a big bang in this sense, Hala. It's not going to be, suddenly, you realize -- it's going to be drip-drip here from the
cruise companies, from the airlines, from this --
QUEST: -- and on the other side of that, Alibaba, the big B-to-C -- the Amazon of China, as we call it -- they have, of course, announced an
increase in business because people are getting more at home, but having much more difficulty delivering it.
GORANI: And obviously, the question is, beyond sort of the macro numbers, at some point -- we saw it with Cathay Pacific, but that of course is an
airline in Asia -- where people start to lose their jobs or they're temporarily laid off for, you know, operational reasons because the company
just cannot continue to operate with its supply chain so disrupted.
What is -- and I know it's drip-drip, but what is the timeline for something like that, especially for companies reliant on Chinese goods?
QUEST: I don't think you're going to see that in the same sense, say, for example, in the United States or Europe, because the goods from China are
quite far down the supply chain.
I think it's in Southeast Asia, amongst the ASEAN countries, where they rely much more heavily on those parts, materials and goods from China to
then go into other manufacturing.
For the rest of the world, there are other alternatives. You will see sporadic job losses, you will see a slowdown in growth, perhaps 1.5 percent
in China, half a percent off the United States. But in many ways, the U.S. is in the best position here because the economy is growing so well. So are
you going to suddenly see a dramatic uptick in numbers? No, I don't think so. It'll be buried underneath, but it'll be there nonetheless.
GORANI: All right. Richard Quest, thanks very much. We'll see you at the top of the hour.
QUEST: Thank you.
GORANI: Now to American politics. The U.S. president, Donald Trump's apparent retaliation against key impeachment witnesses is drawing a
scathing rebuke from his own former chief of staff. Retired Marine General John Kelly is defending Alexander Vindman, who was fired from the National
Security Council. You'll remember, he testified under oath about the Ukraine affair.
Kelly says Vindman -- an Army lieutenant colonel -- was right to raise concerns about Mr. Trump's phone call with Ukraine's President Zelensky. He
said Vindman, quote, "did exactly what we teach them to do from cradle to grave. We teach them, 'Don't follow an illegal order. And if you're ever
given one, you'll raise it to whoever gives it to you that this is an illegal order, and then tell your boss.'"
Well, it didn't take long for Mr. Trump to fire back. Guess where? On Twitter. He insulted Kelly, saying he left the White House with a whimper
and now can't keep his mouth shut.
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: When I terminated John Kelly, which I couldn't do fast enough, he knew full well that he was way over his head. Being chief
of staff just wasn't for him. He came in with a bank, went out with a whimper, but like so many X's, he misses the action & just can't keep his
GORANI: President Trump is also lashing out today at a juror in the trial of his longtime ally Roger Stone, escalating concerns he is trying to
manipulate the U.S. justice system.
Let's bring in former Republican National Committee spokesperson Kevin Sheridan. He was a senior advisor to Mitt Romney's 2012 presidential
Thanks, Kevin, for being with us. What do you make --
GORANI: -- first of all about this Trump tweet about John Kelly there, lashing out against his former chief of staff?
KEVIN SHERIDAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR, ROMNEY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: This is Donald Trump's M.O. He responds to any attack, he never lets anything go
and that has gotten him this far. Three years into the presidency, we've come to expect it.
Most people generally discount it at this point, but it does cause some frustration with Republicans who would like to just get back to talking
about the booming economy, the three dead terrorists, the -- you know, energy independence, the fact that Americans are largely happy.
And the polling indicates that he had one of the best weeks of his presidency, last week, and he's moved quickly on to, you know, getting in
Twitter feuds and all sorts of other things. But, you know, the news cycle here moves so fast that any one of these little fights is bound to get
forgotten in the next 24 hours. It'll be on to the next one.
GORANI: You're saying that Republicans are eager to get back to sort of the big issues. That being said, no one is publicly pushing back against
some of these things that Donald Trump is doing, specifically this perceived interference into the Stone trial, Trump attacking the
impartiality of a juror in a tweet.
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: Now it looks like the fore person in the jury, in the Roger Stone case, had significant bias. Add that to everything else,
and this is not looking good for the "Justice" Department. @foxandfriends @FoxNews
GORANI: Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the House, had this to say about the U.S. president's actions:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We also saw the president, this week, demonstrate once again that he does -- has no respect for the
rule of law. His assault on the rule of law by engaging in political interference in the sentencing of his associate Roger Stone indicated an
obstruction -- investigation into trump-Russia ties and witness tampering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: This, not likely to get any traction with Republican voters, Kevin, though, right?
SHERIDAN: Remains to be seen with Republican voters. I'm highly skeptical it will. But you have -- I will say one thing. You have heard Lindsey
Graham, a key ally of the president, head of the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, along with some -- along with Trey Gowdy, a former Republican
congressman and others, who have said, it's never appropriate for a president to weigh in on an ongoing case.
And Republicans were rightly upset with Obama's doing it when he did it in the Loretta Lynch case, the Clinton -- Loretta Lynch case. And, you know,
the same applies here. So we should hold one standard for all presidents. I don't think this rises to a level of obstruction. And I don't think Nancy
Pelosi's likely to pursue it because that would mean a second impeachment, and I don't think they're ready to do that.
GORANI: So you think -- you're equating this with the Loretta Lynch case, what the president has done here with regards to potentially trying to
interfere in the Stone case and pressuring the DOJ to reduce the sentence for Stone?
SHERIDAN: Well, they're obviously different cases and we could get into it. But Barack Obama did in fact weigh in on an ongoing case -- obviously,
Jim Comey weighed in on an ongoing case. A lot -- you know, so this has happened in the past. It's never good, it's never right and they should be
called out for it and you will hear Republicans talk about it, Lindsey Graham has talked about it.
SHERIDAN: But Bill -- look, Bill Barr will have to answer for this. He's going in front of the Congress in a month and he will get asked tough
questions about this. He -- you know, he takes all incoming and we'll see what he has to say about this.
GORANI: All right. The Democratic Senator Sherrod Brown is saying that essentially his GOP colleagues behind Trump's back are dismayed. This is
what he told CNN this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): I know what Republican senators say privately. They tell me this president doesn't tell the truth, they were very
concerned about the Ukraine call, what led up to it, the call itself and the cover-up afterwards.
And because of their fear -- their fear that the president would turn on them, they said things like we know he'll get better, we know he's
chastened, an impeachment's a serious thing and the president will get better. Of course he wasn't, they know his character.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Is this what you're hearing, Kevin, that Republicans are basically secretly and away from the public eye, just appalled by the president's
behavior but publicly they have to support him because otherwise they fear voter backlash?
SHERIDAN: Well, it depends on which behavior. But, yes, there is a general sentiment among Republican lawmakers -- many who didn't support him in the
first place in 2016, he won anyway, he only had one senator support him -- that you know, don't like the way he tweets, they don't like his tone, they
don't like some of his actions.
But ultimately, the Republican voters are united around this president, and that's just a political fact. It's -- you know, 95 percent of Republican
voters support this president right now. So they have to deal with their voters at home.
And if they oppose the president, as my old boss, Mitt Romney, did, they have to go back to their constituencies, explain their vote and, you know,
in his case, he's doing just fine. He was able to do that and others will have to do the same thing if they took an unpopular position of voting to
acquit him. So Susan Collins, among others.
GORANI: Kevin Sheridan, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
GORANI: Speaking of the U.S. Senate, it just passed, an Iran War Powers Resolution and a rare rebuke to President Trump. The measure, quote,
"directs the president to terminate the use of United States armed forces for hostilities against the Islamic Republic of Iran or any part of its
government or military unless explicitly authorized by a declaration of war or specific authorization for use of military force against Iran."
So trying to take back some control there, in terms of the president's ability to use military force against Iran or Iranian targets. The
resolution has garnered support from both Republicans and Democrats in this case. President Trump had promised to veto it if it passed both houses of
Congress. This comes after the U.S.' targeted killing of Qasem Soleimani, the top Iranian military commander.
Well, there are major shake-ups in U.S. politics and there's a major shake- up in the British government today. Sajid Javid has resigned as chancellor of the exchequer. The finance minister's departure is the most high-profile
one yet, as Prime Minister Boris Johnson reshuffles his cabinet and consolidates power. CNN's Bianca Nobilo joins me now with more on that.
So this is not a name people outside of the U.K. know, but it's extremely significant because it tells us what about Boris Johnson?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, the chancellor of the exchequer in the United Kingdom is more important than just a finance
minister in some other countries. It's essentially the second-most powerful position that you can hold.
Now, Sajid Javid is well-respected in the role. In fact, during the election campaign just last year, Boris Johnson kept touting all the work
that Sajid Javid was going to do with the budget, which is only in four weeks' time. So this has come as a surprise.
The reason why it's significant is initially, there were expectations about this cabinet reshuffle, that it was going to be a bit of a Valentine's Day
massacre, as people were referring to it. Then, people thought, actually, it looks like it's going to be pretty smooth.
This meeting happens this morning, Sajid Javid's the first of Boris Johnson's cabinet to go and see him. He is then -- I hear that they had a
very good talk. Then, unexpectedly, Boris Johnson asked Sajid Javid to essentially change his advisory team.
NOBILO: Now, we understand that is because Boris Johnson -- and crucially his advisor Dominic Cummings -- don't want to see any dissent from Number
11. Now, historically and traditionally, there's a lot of healthy tension between the chancellor and the prime minister. But they don't want that.
GORANI: So they wanted more control?
NOBILO: They wanted more control. They don't want dissent, we saw that last year. Boris Johnson got -- took the whip away from all these M.P.s,
that's continuing. He's showing the party who's boss.
Even though when it comes to policy, he doesn't really disagree with Javid very much -- there's only been one or two areas -- but Sajid Javid said --
and we'll hear from him in a minute -- basically that he couldn't accept the conditions and maintain his integrity. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAJID JAVID, FORMER BRITISH FINANCE MINISTER: The conditions that were attacked was a requirement that I replace all my political advisors. You
know, these are people that have worked incredibly hard on behalf of not just the government, but the whole country, done a fantastic job.
I was unable to accept those conditions. I don't believe any self- respecting minister would accept such conditions. And so therefore, I felt the best thing to do was to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, Bianca, some of the commentators that I've -- whose analysis I've read today are saying this is a way for Boris Johnson to take control,
to centralize power at Number 10. And appointing in the place of Sajid Javid a much more junior operative (ph) minister? Yes?
NOBILO: Yes, that's right. I mean, on both those points. The first being, this is a consolidation of power? I mean, it is. Boris Johnson wants this
to be more like David Cameron and George Osborne, where they were hand-in- glove with everything. There was no double briefing, there was no dissent of any kind. He wants control over what the Treasury does.
Now, he's replaced Sajid Javid with Rishi Sunak, who's pretty much an unknown, certainly for anyone outside of the U.K. He's quite young, he's 39
years old --
GORANI: Even inside the U.K., I'd never heard of him.
NOBILO: Well, indeed. Unless you're keen on (ph) --
GORANI: Yes, yes.
NOBILO: -- but you're right, unknown inside the U.K. too. He does come from a more diverse ethnic background. He is of Indian origin, his parents
from West Africa.
But in terms of his progression, it's been pretty textbook. He did PPE at Oxford, like a lot of Conservative ministers, worked in banking. He's also
a Leaver, and has been from the very beginning, unlike Javid, who was what we called a born-again Brexiteer --
NOBILO: -- initially Remain, and then got on board with it later.
GORANI: All right. Thanks, Bianca, for that. We'll see you later on your program, in a few hours.
Still to come tonight, Sudan is trying to reframe its global image and make amends to the families of the victims of the USS Cole attack. Why now?
We'll have that story, coming up.
GORANI: The U.S. and the Afghan Taliban have reached a temporary agreement in peace talks. The two sides have hashed out a plan to reduce violence in
Afghanistan for seven days. The U.S. secretary of defense says they're making progress towards a broader political agreement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ESPER, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We've said all along that the best, if not only, solution in Afghanistan is a political agreement. Progress has
been made on this front, and we'll have more to report on that soon, I hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the prospective deal is going to, of course, be scrutinized. What is likely to happen next? Nick Paton Walsh joins us now from Munich,
Germany with more. So what do we expect to see immediately?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Well, I'm here in Munich at the security conference here. That gets under way tomorrow,
fully. We'll expect to see U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo here, Afghan President Ashraf Ghani. It's possible that after their meeting on the
sidelines here, that we may hear an announcement about when exactly this seven-day period of a reduction in violence actually begins.
And then there are two questions to really answer. Is it stuck to, is it adhered to in a meaningful way like the previous ceasefire we saw --
PATON WALSH: -- which the Taliban honored, and which essentially brought violence down to virtually nothing across Afghanistan?
And then what comes next after that? Does the U.S. agree to withdraw from parts of the country, to reduce its footprint? And then of course, when do
we see conversations occurring between the Afghan government -- still struggling for electoral difficulties after a complicated presidential
election -- and the Taliban insurgency itself.
There are many other players in the field here, too, like ISIS, like younger possible Taliban elements of this very lengthy and bloody war. But
this could potentially be the beginning of a process which may calm violence but is essentially, I think, in the mind of Donald Trump, about
getting Americans out of Afghanistan.
GORANI: So will this actually impact the lives of ordinary Afghans who have suffered so much?
PATON WALSH: I think there are two answers to that. First is, yes, certainly. If we can have a week of no violence, that may prove to sides
(ph) that it's possible to coexist without that.
But the Taliban have been playing a much longer game here, really, and they've known this for over a decade, that eventually the clock would run
out on the American presence there and they simply had to keep an eye on when that time came.
The broader question is, what comes after any possible reduction of violence, any possible political deal for the Taliban, gaining control of
parts of the country, what happens to those Afghans who were sympathetic to the American and Afghan government presence (ph)? A lot of questions to be
answered about them.
We saw awful amounts of civilian casualties last year, or possibly a record amount. And so I think many Afghans will welcome the notion of peace
because frankly, any idea of a military victory or supremacy is long in the past.
The question is what kind of society are they left with, with a president whose last electoral victory is still being disputed and a Taliban that
have been fighting so long, they're so fragmented it's hard to know whether their leaders can actually make any deal adhere (ph) to everyone fighting
on the ground -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, live in Munich.
Sudan is taking some serious steps to come in out of the global cold. We've heard an announcement today, 20 years in the making, that Sudan has agreed
finally to pay the families of the victims of the terrorist attack on the USS Cole.
CNN's Nima Elbagir looks at why Sudan is seeking redemption now.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A tragedy far from home that would sow the seeds for the September 11 attacks
on U.S. soil. More than 200 American, Tanzanian and Kenyan lives, lost in the 1998 twin bombings of the U.S. embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi.
Two years later, 17 American service men murdered in the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen.
The U.S. blamed Osama bin Laden, but they said he had help from his then- host nation of Sudan.
GEORGE W. BUSH, THEN-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Constant reminder that people wear a uniform, make scarifies.
ELBAGIR: An acknowledgement for the families of the American victims, at least.
Sudan Justice Minister Nasr al-Din Abdel Bari said Sudan has agreed to pay victims' families $30 million. "As part of our efforts to remove Sudan's
name from the U.S. State Sponsors of Terror list on February 7th, an agreement was signed with the families of the victims of the 2000 USS Cole
attack. We entered into this agreement out of a keenness to settle the historic allegations of terrorism created by the former regime."
Last year, we reported on the Sudanese regime's brutal crackdown on pro- democracy demonstrators. Winning a settlement for American families has been a key priority for the Trump administration. Even as the litany of
torture and death grew, we discovered the U.S. was continuing normalization talks with now-deposed dictator Omar Hassan al-Bashir.
For victims' families, this means closure. For Sudan, this is the beginning of the journey back in from the cold.
In the aftermath of the country's historic revolution, Sudan is desperately in need of a fresh start. The hope is that these settlements and renewed
U.S. support will pave the way for much-needed debt relief and a brighter future for the country and its people.
Nima Elbagir, CNN, London.
GORANI: Still to come tonight. Is China telling the truth about the coronavirus? The conversation about anger, mistrust, and how China may be
changing. Stay with us.
GORANI: Let's return to our top story now, the coronavirus outbreak. On Thursday, China announced more than 15,000 new cases as it changed the way
that it is counting. China will now include victims who have symptoms but have not been lab tested for the virus so that increases the total number.
Another 44 people on board the quarantined Diamond Princess cruise ship have tested positive now for the virus, that makes the total number of
confirmed cases on the ship 219. Certain passengers, 80 years old or above who've tested negative, will get to disembark early, probably they've been
going pretty stir crazy, but most will have to wait for the end of the quarantine period scheduled for next Wednesday.
CNN's Will Ripley talked to a man on the Diamond Princess with his family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, two, three, go.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what a cruise is supposed to be like for parents with young children on the
Diamond Princess. This only happens for about an hour every few days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oink, oink.
RIPLEY: All those other hours are spent like this, waiting for the daily delivery of fresh toys, coloring books, crayons, colorful beads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have this bracelet and also this one.
RIPLEY: Arts and crafts can keep the kids busy for hours.
Every morning local jet skiers try to boost morale. Every evening, bunk beds become trampolines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being trapped in this cabin, like, it makes you think and realize, well, we should appreciate like the little, little moments,
the little details of life.
RIPLEY: Harvey is a young dad who asked us not to use his last name. He's on the quarantined cruise ship with his entire family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's 11 of us and then there's five kids.
RIPLEY: The youngest, three. The oldest, eight.
RIPLEY (on camera): What do you tell your children about why you guys are sitting there for this long?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We say there's like this invisible monster called the coronavirus and we can't go outside.
RIPLEY (voice over): That invisible monster may have the parents more spooked than their kids. Nobody in Harvey's family is showing any symptoms
of novel coronavirus. He thinks they should all be tested anyway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The numbers are kind of strange to me. I'm also worried because even though I trust my own health, I don't want to be like an
RIPLEY: The Japanese government has only tested a few hundred people out of more than 3,000 on the Diamond Princess. Many are asking, why not test
everyone at once?
Japan can only process around 300 test kits per day. The nation expects to more than triple its capacity by early next week, one day before the end of
the quarantine. The question many are asking, is it too little, too late?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we are worried that we might be carrying, then it will affect our daily life when we -- when we go back. That's one of the
major concerns, that we don't want to be carrying it, like, and then we don't want to spread it to the communities.
RIPLEY: Harvey worries what could happen when they go back home to Hong Kong. Could he and his children be stigmatized? Could they pass the virus
to their neighbors, family and friends?
Peace of mind, he says, can only come if everyone on board is tested, and if those tests come back negative.
Will Ripley, CNN, Yokohama, Japan.
GORANI: Well, back to the epicenter of this whole outbreak, there is distressed about what the Chinese government is and is not telling people.
On Thursday, two key communist party officials from the province at the center of the outbreak were ousted and replaced by official seen as close
to Chinese president, Xi Jinping.
Joining me is Professor Ho-Fung Hung from Johns Hopkins University. He's an expert in global politics and sociology and has written extensively about
the Chinese government. "China Boom" is one of his books. Thank you, Professor, for being with us.
So first off, are you surprised that the level of public anger directed at the government inside of China over the way this coronavirus outbreak has
HO-FUNG HUNG, POLITICAL ECONOMY PROFESSOR, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: I think it's less surprising at all, particularly after the death of the
whistleblowers doctor, medical doctor who actually warned about a mysterious new disease is going on in Hubei and Wuhan in early January, but
he was warned and even penalized for spreading the news as rumors and the government declined. It is going on in early January.
In the end that he was right, and there was really a serious virus going on, and people are angry because if the government act earlier, the crisis,
the virus, and the disease would have been contained locally. And rather than like that, what we are seeing today that is spreading all over China
and the world.
GORANI: But it's unusual. It's unusual to have this kind of public anger, open letters, people posting on social media platforms like Weibo, for
instance, that they want freedom of speech, that they want their government to be transparent. And this isn't every day that this happens in China.
How -- what have you made so far of the reaction of the government to this?
HUNG: I think the government know that it is difficult to totally stifle the public anger. And then so they let it out a little bit. But fairly
swiftly that the government put it back in the bottle and then control the narrative.
And they praised the doctor as the hero, as some media frame it, but at the same time, they are starting to delete poses on WeChat, that call for
freedom of speech and an expressed anger at the government, and also the government is now stifling pose on social media that criticize the
government handling of the crisis.
GORANI: Should we believe the numbers that are coming out of China? Or, do you believe there's a possibility that there is an underestimation of the
actual extent of this epidemic?
HUNG: Definitely, they're low doubt about it. They're underestimation, partly, because some local officials may last warned their region to look
bad, so they (INAUDIBLE) under report it, at the same time there are some local area that actually has a problem monitoring the situation fully
because maybe, for example, that they in lack of testing kits, so they must be in a lot of cases that they are not able to test it --
GORANI: Sure. Yes.
HUNG: -- swiftly. So both are true. And we see that after the communist party chief in Hubei was ousted, and the little guy was implemented into
the post and there is a sudden spike of confirmed cases by the tens of thousands. So people are suspecting that it might be related. So the
statistics is actually definitely carefully manipulated our political reason.
GORANI: Thank you, Professor, Ho-Fung Hung of Johns Hopkins University for joining us. Thank you for that.
GORANI: Now, what about in the United States, the Centers for Disease Control? What are they saying?
Dr. Sanjay guitar, our chief medical correspondent, just spoke to the head of the CDC. What are they telling you about how they plan on containing any
threat coming from this virus?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, one of the big things, Hala, really is the fact that the CDC is still here in
Atlanta. They've wanted to be in China offering assistance. Being able to answer a lot of these questions that are still big unknowns when it comes
to this coronavirus.
Dr. Redfield is the head of the CDC. I specifically asked him about that, about the relationship with China. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, U.S. CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: I don't think it's a medical decision that we're not being
GUPTA: What do you think it is?
REDFIELD: Well, I think it's above the medical...
GUPTA: Do you think it's a political decision?
REDFIELD: Well, I think it's above the medical. I don't think this -- the director of CDC is making that decision.
GUPTA: Do you think it's a political decision?
REDFIELD: Well, I think it's -- all I can say is I think it's above the director of CDC because I know he would love to have us a system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And just to give you a little context, Hala, there was a letter, an official letter written requested letter that Dr. Redfield sent to China,
basically saying, we stand ready to assist. That letter, again, was requested. That letter has not been responded. It's been close to six weeks
So that's one of the concerns that they want to be on the ground in China. Again, being able to ask some basic questions. Just exactly when does
someone become infectious? How infectious is this virus? What is this spread looking like, who is most affected?
Right now, they got 15 patients in the United States that they can study. Obviously, in China, there's tens of thousands. If you can study this, you
get a much better idea of how to basically deal with this.
Keep in mind that many of the physicians and clinicians in China, they're really focused on taking care of patients right now. What other people
around the world want to do is go in and provide the assistance to study this to get some of those answers.
GORANI: Right. And there's some good -- I mean, we -- there was a report of a case here in London where a patient took an Uber, you know, people are
starting to get worried that this is -- the future of this virus might start affecting them a lot more than they perhaps thought it would a few
What is the CDC -- what are the professionals at the CDC telling you they believe the future of this virus will look like worldwide?
GUPTA: Yes, it's really interesting, Hala, I mean, we've known for some time that human to human transmission happens. We've seen that even seen it
here, for example, in the United States with two patients, obviously, lots of examples of that in China and other places around the world.
And also, I asked that the CDC Director a couple of times to confirm this point, can someone who is asymptomatic, meaning not sick and not showing
any symptoms actually also spread the virus? And the answer was a definitive? Yes.
So the question does become exactly what you're saying, where does this go from here? And I asked him about that, how worried should we be and where
does this go from here? Listen to what Dr. Redfield said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REDFIELD: I think this virus is probably with us beyond this season, or beyond this year, and I think eventually, the virus will find a foothold
and we will get community based transmission and you can start to think of it in a sense, like, seasonal flu.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: You know, you think about, Hala, these containment, procedures, these large quarantines, the way Dr. Redfield really described this was
saying, look, we don't have any preconceived notions that that's going to prevent this virus from spreading around the world, you think it will
likely spread around the world.
Why they're in place, especially, for example, in here in the United States, is to slow down that process to allow the scientific community to
catch up, possibly develop some new strategies, develop some new therapies, possibly even develop vaccine. That's the goal.
I think at this point, it's becoming clear that this small strand of RNA, this little strand of virus is spreading around the world. The question is,
can you slow it down in time enough to better understand it and be able to deal with it? That's how the CDC is thinking of this.
GORANI: And the biggest -- not the biggest, but one of the big concerns is this virus, so far, has been in Asia and then in countries that have kind
of the medical infrastructure to deal with new cases in Europe or the United States, but if it starts affecting countries where the medical
infrastructure is less advanced or less able to cope, where, you know, people could travel as well and infect more than one person, that then you
could really start seeing a global -- just an explosive global emergency, right? That that has to be a concern for health authorities.
GUPTA: I think absolutely. You know, when we talk about these public health emergencies of international concern, which is what this is now, really,
that is -- that is primarily directed at countries that don't have the infrastructure to be able to deal with this.
I mean, in other countries, the more developed countries, you're going to have stronger public health infrastructure to identify who's been infected
and try and isolate those people.
But you're absolutely right. I mean, look, compared to SARS, 17 years ago, global travel has doubled. So there's no question that this is going to
start to spread in those other countries.
But again, you know, why do all these strategies exist? If we know it's going to spread around the world, why are we quarantining? Why are we doing
these travel restrictions?
I asked Dr. Redfield this a few times, and he kept coming back to this point. Look, we understand that viruses don't respect borders, that an
infection anywhere is an infection everywhere. That's the way the world works. But if you can slow it down long enough to understand it, that can
make a big difference.
Also, you know, the early suggestion of how this virus is behaving. It's certainly more transmissible than SARS was. But at least at this point,
Hala, I think if there's a glimmer of good news in this, is that it doesn't appear nearly as lethal. So he even described it as another seasonal flu,
maybe a bad flu, but a flu nonetheless.
GORANI: Yes. But one of the experts told me you could potentially not even know you have it, you have a bad sore throat, you think it's just a flu,
and it can go all the way from that to, sadly, some people actually losing their lives.
Thanks so much, Dr. Gupta. We will keep an eye on this story with our team of reporters covering it all around the world, including with our chief
medical correspondent, thanks very much.
Still to come tonight. Closing arguments are underway in the rape trial of Harvey Weinstein and the verdict could be a milestone in the MeToo
movement. We have a live report coming up.
GORANI: Jurors are hearing closing arguments in the rape trial of Hollywood movie producer, Harvey Weinstein. Weinstein, his defense attorney, asked
jurors to use quote common sense in reaching a verdict. She says Weinstein's accusers had consensual sex with him that they weren't
assaulted at all, in order to further their film careers.
While the trial involves two alleged victims, more than 80 women, eight, zero, have accused Weinstein of sexual misconduct. The case is considered a
milestone in the MeToo movement that has led to women to speak out about sexual assault by powerful men.
Prosecutors are expected to present their closing arguments tomorrow, Friday.
Jean Casarez has just come out from court to give us this report. She joins me now on the phone. And this trial started when the impeachment trial was
going on, on Capitol Hill. So it didn't get as much coverage as we -- as, you know, we are giving it now.
Bring us up to date. What are the lawyers saying in their closing arguments, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's been -- it's still going on right now. And I did just step out of court to talk with you, and Donna
Rotunno, lay defense attorney for the defense. I think she's going to go all day, because the judge has given no time limits. And I think the focus
of what she is really doing is going through the details. But timeline is critically important to the defense in this closing and the details.
And she said that there are only two accusers in this case that you really need to think about and care about and that would be Jessica Mann and also
Miriam Haley, because those are -- its two, the two accusers where the criminal charges will be going to the jury.
But in the timeline, let me just give you two examples for Miriam Haley, who alleges a very, very violent sexual assault on July 10 of 2011 -- 2006.
She recites the testimony of Miriam saying that Harvey driver had taken her to the hotel and what was going through her mind at this time, when it was
all happening was, could the driver be in on it? Was it all a scheme and a plan by the driver to help Harvey?
But the very next day, the morning hours later, she gets into a car with Harvey's driver to take her to the airport to a flight to Los Angeles that
Weinstein paid for. And so talking about -- is it common sense you would step into the car with the driver to go back to an airport plausibly or
back to Harvey Weinstein if you really were scared, and you've really been sexually assaulted.
With Jessica Mann talking about all of the e-mails, all of the communications, the consensual relationship they have, and it has been
established. They both had consensual relations with Harvey Weinstein. So it's a very complex case. And I think the defense really summed it up from
their point of view b saying, you know, why did she continue to reach it to her rapist because he didn't rape her?
GORANI: And, Jean, I want to ask you, we've seen him just kind of wobble into court with that -- in the aid of that walker and, you know, he just
looks like just kind of a, you know, showing kind of like this disable as if he's somehow physically disabled. What's his demeanor been in court?
CASAREZ: His demeanor is -- he's silent. I mean, you really haven't heard him audibly say anything, so we want it and he listens, but he's very much
appearing to be in control. I mean, today at the break, he and Donna Rotunno were sitting in the gallery on the first row, just talking intently
with each other.
And this is right in the middle of her closing arguments. He seemed to be very pleased with what she had done in the morning. And they just had this
very intense conversation going on.
The jury has been really focused on the defense all day. I don't see them getting tired. Because sometimes with these long summations, you really see
jurors start to drift because it's long. It's enduring. I see them focused. And this is a very diverse jury. Seven men, five women, older men, there
are some younger women. So I really think it's going to be quite a deliberation in that room.
GORANI: Jean Casarez outside the courthouse there, thanks very much.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
GORANI: Still to come. We could have an idea of what's next for Prince Harry now that he's not a senior member of the royal family anymore and it
involves a big bank. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Well, we might be getting a glimpse at what the duke and duchess of Sussex's new life will look like away from royal duties.
A source tells CNN Prince Harry and U.S. investment bank, Goldman Sachs, have been talking about a potential appearance as part of an online
interview series for Goldman employees.
Another source tells CNN discussions between one of the duke's patronages and the investment bank have been going on for about a year.
Well, let's go to our royal correspondent, Max Foster, who is in and discussions between one of the dukes patronage is and the investment bank
have been going on for about a year. Well, let's go to our royal correspondent Max foster, who is in New York.
So what more do we know about what this -- what a deal or what collaboration might look like between the Sussex and this big bank, Goldman
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the interview program that you're talking about is online, it's unpaid. So he's not being paid for
that. And also, sources close to the couple saying that they've had this long relationship, actually, with Goldman, and it goes deep into their
patch and edges.
And this is not something that's completely come out of the blue. At the same time, I was speaking to some senior financial figures in New York last
night, and they were saying actually, what's interesting about this program is that if you do want to get on the speaker circuit, this is quite a good
way of doing it because it gives you the opportunity to meet senior Goldman executives, and then they start building a role for you really, within the
bank and it can be extremely lucrative if you do that.
We're not saying that that's what Prince Harry is planning. But a lot of the speculation is that he's trying to carve out a role within Goldman
Sachs. And it's also off the back of this other event last week in Miami with J.P. Morgan, where he spoke. He wasn't the keynote address -- he
didn't give the keynote address, which is the big, highly paid one, but they're not denying that he was paid for that one.
So it's really, you know, trying to figure out how the Sussex is a moving forward, how they're going to develop this independent income they were
talking about. And it looks like they are moving towards this sort of speaker circuit, the very top end of it, which involves the Wall Street
GORANI: But it's an interesting choice. I mean, their brand is kind of, you know, the -- especially Megan, you know, fighting for women's equality,
combating poverty, you know, all these very worthy causes, kind of a puzzling association, these big banks that are associated a lot more with,
you know, the one percent and even sometimes, you know, greed and that kind of thing. What do you make of it?
GORANI: Well, I think you're -- you know, what you're talking about there is the challenge for them going forward, there are always going to be
conflicts of interest with whatever private income they take in the future. You've already pointed out one of the big accusations of going first of
all, to Wall Street on this sort of thing. It doesn't tie in with many of their patch images.
But I think if you look at any private income that they pull in, there's going to be some sort of deal in response to that, and they're going to be
criticized for it.
Also, the other criticism here is that they're rushing things too much as well. They're trying to get the money in too quickly. Perhaps, they should
be doing their charity work and building up to this sort of event as well.
Having said that, if they are very ambitious on their charity work, they do need a lot of money to sustain that and you're talking Wall Street money.
GORANI: All right. Max Foster. Thanks very much.
I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. A lot more head after the break. "QUESTION MEANS BUSINESS" is coming your way.