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Hala Gorani Tonight
Nine Killed in Right-Wing Terror Shooting in Germany; Roger Stone Sentenced to 40 Months; Interview with Joe Trippi; Life In Locked-Down Wuhan Is Cramped And Full Of Fear; Iran Holds National Elections Amid Health Scare; Trump Names Loyalist Richard Grenell As Acting Spy Chief; Maternal Mortality Rates In The U.S. On The Rise; Naomi Campbell Talks Women In Fashion. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired February 20, 2020 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:25]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, nine people killed in a xenophobic
terrorist attack in Germany: what we are learning about the attacker.
Then, Roger Stone sentenced to three years and four months in prison after a lot of political drama, but it is not over yet. Will the president pardon
his friend and former political advisor?
And supermodel Naomi Campbell opens up about battling for equality and her confidence about turning 50. Our full conversation is later this hour.
A deadly terrorist attack in Germany is forcing the country to come to terms with the rise of far-right extremism once again. That's after a
gunman killed nine people, all with migrant backgrounds, in a Turkish neighborhood overnight. Police later found the shooter dead at his home,
along with his mother.
Prosecutors have identified the gunman as Tobias R. They found videos and documents in his apartment spouting conspiracy theories and a, quote,
"deeply racist attitude."
German politicians are condemning the spread of right-wing attacks. The chancellor, Angela Merkel, is not mincing her words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGELA MERKEL, CHANCELLOR OF GERMANY (through translator): Racism is a poison. Hatred is a poison. And this poison exists in our society and is to
blame for already far too many crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Melissa Bell is in Hanau where the attack happened. Melissa, talk to us about what authorities are saying about the suspect. They've been
combing through his devices and his computer. What do they say they've found?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What they say is that he did not, Hala, have a criminal background, but clearly an extremist background. You
referred a moment ago to that manifesto, the video also that was published online. Lots of deeply racist views, lots of fairly wild conspiracy
theories in there. And this was a man who was clearly wanting to commit this kind of thing.
Now, whether he was under watch or not by German authorities hasn't yet been made clear, but the prosecutor has been giving us a lot more detail
about both him and his background, and some of the victims, Hala. They were between 22 and 44 years old. Some of them were German nationals, some of
them were Turkish nationals. All of them had migrant backgrounds, that's the phrase that's used here in Germany by the prosecutor, and was used
earlier by the prosecutor.
There was an awful lot of emotion, here in Hanau tonight. We had this vigil held, just a few hours ago. You can see this makeshift memorial that's been
put up behind me, people have been coming along and putting flowers and candles.
And what we saw at that vigil, it was not so much that it was a vigil and about mourning, but it became something of a protest. People turned up with
their signs, "Nazis raus," they shouted. It was about that problem of the rise of the far right and those racist views and that xenophobic outlook.
That was what they were here to protest, to say that this is not the Germany they recognize.
And you're right, this is clearly -- and in Angela Merkel's words, we heard it reflected -- a problem that Germany is having to grapple with. This was
the third far-right attack, Hala, in less than a year.
GORANI: All right, Melissa Bell, live in Hanau, thanks very much.
If racism and xenophobia are the motives, what is the power of their appeal and how do people become gripped by those ideas in the first place? Let's
join -- let's talk to King's College professor Peter Neumann, an expert in extremism.
We -- so in Germany, I've been looking just at the past two years. We've seen arrests of far-right extremists, foiled attacks. What's going on in
Germany, that we're seeing such a rise in this ideological extremism, and some people acting on it?
PETER NEUMANN, PROFESSOR, KING'S COLLEGE LONDON: So -- yes. So we've seen, for two years, security agencies reporting that the willingness of right-
wing extremists to engage in violence, including terrorism, has increased a lot.
GORANI: Why?
NEUMANN: And that's -- I personally think because highly polarized domestic discourse --
GORANI: Yes.
NEUMANN: -- which is very nasty, and which is necessary. If you are a socially isolated man like the one we saw yesterday, you want to have an
audience, you want to feel that you're doing this on behalf of someone.
GORANI: Yes.
NEUMANN: And the discourse has the function of enabling, empowering these people, giving them the confidence that once they're doing this, there will
be an audience that will applaud them. Or so they think.
[14:05:04]
GORANI: Well, it appears as though this person may have committed suicide, we don't know exactly for sure. His mother also, we understand from
authorities, found dead in that apartment. What does that tell us about this individual?
NEUMANN: He was -- based on his manifesto or the letter that he left, it's very clear that he was a socially isolated man who constructed his own
ideology literally based on stuff that he found on the internet, very clearly right-wing extremist but also mixed up with conspiracy theories,
with misogynism.
It follows the pattern that we've seen ever since Passau (ph), Christ Church, the attacks on the synagogues in the United States but also last
year in Germany. So it fits the pattern of attackers that we've seen.
GORANI: And these don't appear to be few and far between, these threats. Because on Friday, there was a police raid of a far-right network. On
Monday, anti-Islam protestors in Dresden, where we've seen many Islamophobic incidents. On Monday as well, Germany's Muslims demand
protection in mosques. On Wednesday, the Hanau rampage happens. So this appears to be a very worrying sort of overall atmosphere in the country.
NEUMANN: I agree. And I'm -- being German myself, I have never seen a -- I cannot remember historical period in postwar Germany where the discourse in
society would have been so polarized. So we've always been -- tried to be very moderate in expressing our opinions.
What's happened since 2016 is that the discourse has become quite extreme. Things that were considered to be unspeakable, people are allowed to feel
empowered to say --
GORANI: Yes. It's the same, I guess, in the U.S. --
NEUMANN: -- and I think this sort of -- to some extent, absolutely.
GORANI: What can change this? What needs to be done so that these attacks at least don't happen as frequently?
NEUMANN: I think last year, with the attack on the synagogue, it was already bad. But this time, it was, in terms of the numbers of people
killed, much worse. And I think this should be a wake-up call to society, this should remind everyone that the way you speak in society actually
matters, and that people are listening, and that people feel empowered by extreme --
GORANI: But how do you limit this? You have the internet now, and --
NEUMANN: Absolutely. And I think it's also important that security agencies, for example, as much as they know on the real-world right-wing
extremist scene --
GORANI: YEs.
NEUMANN: -- that they are also present in those message forums and virtual subcultures, where these people thrive, where these people also connect
with each other and receive encouragement.
GORANI: Have we -- just last one -- is there any indication that this particular individual, Tobias R., that he was encouraged by other people,
that he was part of any kind of group or network?
NEUMANN: No. He spent, however, a lot of time watching videos. We do not know yet whether he was connected to people online. He doesn't seem to have
been connected to people in the quote-unquote real world.
GORANI: All right. Peter Neumann, thanks very much.
And we'll talk more about the victims when we get more information about them, of course, without wanting to focus entirely on the alleged
perpetrator here. But we understand there were some German citizens, some foreigners as well with migrant backgrounds, aged 21 to 44, victims of this
murderous rampage.
Now, in Britain, there was a stabbing at a mosque. So of course, after the attack in Hanau, people were wondering, could it be terrorism as well,
could it be a copycat attack. But authorities are saying it does not appear to be terrorism. It happened just a few hours ago, and it happened at the
Regent's Park mosque. We understand, there, that officers arrested an individual suspected of having carried out this knife attack.
Phil Black is live for us in London with more. What more can you tell us, Phil?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, Hala, emergency services got the call a little after 3:00 p.m. this afternoon, that there'd been a stabbing here at
London's Central Mosque. The police, the paramedics, they arrived pretty quickly and in big numbers, and they found a man in his 70s with a stab
wound to his shoulder. That's what witnesses tell us.
And they also found a 29-year-old man pinned to the ground by other worshipers. Now, witnesses say the afternoon prayers were already under way
when that younger man suddenly pulled a knife and attacked the older man from behind.
Other people nearby quickly wrestled him to the ground, and we're told he didn't say a word, he didn't resist, he didn't fight back in any way.
The older man, in his 70s, is well-known here, he leads the call to prayer at this mosque. He was taken to hospital, his injury is not life-
threatening, we're told. The younger man, according to people we've spoken here today, well, they say he's been coming to this mosque, attending this
mosque for a few months now.
The police, they're trying to work out precisely what the motive is. But as you touched on there, at this stage, they don't believe it's terror-related
-- Hala.
[14:10:00]
GORANI: All right. Phil Black, thanks very much.
He was not prosecuted for standing up for the president; he was prosecuted for covering up for the president. With those words, an American federal
judge sentenced a longtime friend of Donald Trump to 40 months in prison today.
Roger Stone was convicted last year of witness tampering and obstructing a congressional investigation into the Trump campaign's ties to Russia.
Mr. Trump was tweeting today during the sentencing, fueling growing speculation that he could issue a pardon. Let's bring in CNN legal analyst
and former U.S. federal prosecutor Elie Honig.
Elie, what do you make of the 40-month sentence here for Roger Stone?
ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Hala. So 40 months is a serious but I think fair and reasonable sentence. And I think what the judge was trying
to do here really is send a message, which is that what Roger Stone did here, for all the excuse-making we've heard from Roger Stone and from
Donald Trump, is very serious. He lied to Congress about the Trump campaign's efforts to connect with WikiLeaks to get their hands on those
hacked e-mails from the DNC.
And I think one thing the judge was doing here was saying basically, let's make the record straight here. Roger Stone was not improperly persecuted,
he lied in order to -- her words -- cover up for the president.
GORANI: Mm-hmm. But he doesn't start his sentence right away. Why not?
HONIG: Oh. So the judge is allowing him to make a motion for a new trial. Roger Stone has this argument that one of the jurors on his case basically
lied, she was biased and tried to hide it from the courts.
Based on what I've seen from the trial record, that motion has a very, very low chance of success. The juror seemed to lay out, there, exactly who she
was, that she had run for Congress, that she was a Democrat, that she knew about Donald Trump and Roger Stone.
So unless there's something I'm not seeing, that motion is going to fail. The judge basically said, I'll let you finish out that motion and then I
will remand you. I think it could take about a month or so.
GORANI: And the president gave an interview to "Fox News." He actually tweeted a clip from that interview, suggesting to some -- to many, in fact
-- that he's considering a pardon of Roger Stone. Is that your expectation? And if so, what precedent would that set?
HONIG: Sure. So he's absolutely considering it. I mean, he said I'm not thinking about it, and then he tweets about it. So disregard this I'm not
even thinking about it. It does seem that Donald Trump is warming us up, or at least positioning himself, to pardon Roger Stone. And I think it will
set a terrible precedent.
Look, the president, under our Constitution, has very broad pardon powers. He legally is permitted to pardon Roger Stone. The problem is, as the judge
said today, this is a person who was convicted because he was trying to cover up for the president. So to me, it really undermines the rule of law.
GORANI: All right. And Adam Schiff, of course, the Democratic -- one of the top Democrats in the House of Representatives had this to say on
Twitter about this sentence and the possibility that the president might consider pardoning him.
"Roger Stone was found guilty of lying to Congress and threatening a witness. He did it to cover up for Trump. His sentence is justified. it
should go without saying, but to pardon Stone when his crimes were committed to protect Trump would be a breathtaking act of corruption."
Is he -- I mean, is there anyone on the Republican side agreeing with the Democrats' take there, that this could set a bad precedent?
HONIG: I don't know, but -- I don't know what the Republicans are saying, but I do agree with that. Let's remember, it was only a month ago, Donald
Trump was defending himself and his defenders were defending him in the impeachment case, by saying he's this dedicated international corruption-
buster, that's why he was in Ukraine.
Nonsense. Look at this. He's defending corruption by his own people around him. So I think it really puts the lie to that whole drain-the-swamp anti-
corruption pitch from Trump and his people.
GORANI: Do you think this also sends a message to other people who might get into legal hot water, and who might be close associates of Donald
Trump? Or even, in the case of Rod Blagojevich, which was interesting, is he was a Democratic governor in Illinois but, you know, he was on
"Celebrity Apprentice," and so he felt maybe some kinship with him for that reason. So is this sending out a message to others?
HONIG: Yes, I think it is. Again, I mean, the pardons that we saw the other day of Rod Blagojevich and others who are high-profile famous people
who were convicted of corruption, I think is completely contrary to this notion that the president is some sort of corruption-buster.
And a big message that I think comes out of all this that I'd like to see, as a former prosecutor, is that lying to Congress, lying to courts is a
very serious crime. There's a tendency to just say, what's the big deal, people do it all the time, who gets hurt?
But the judge, I think, made a very strong point today, to say, this disrupts our democratic process. This is a serious crime, and you deserve
to go to jail for three and change years, which is a serious sentence.
GORANI: All right. Elie Honig, thanks very much.
HONIG: Thanks, Hala.
[14:14:43]
GORANI: Still to come tonight, a bruising fight in Las Vegas: U.S. Democratic presidential candidates come out swinging in their most
contentious debate of the 2020 race. we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Now to the Democratic race for the White House. The blows started early and continued until the bitter end. Wednesday's debate in Nevada was
the biggest slugfest yet by far, with much of the fire aimed not at Donald Trump, but at newcomer Mike Bloomberg.
But he wasn't the only target, the jabs were flying in every direction as candidates fought for a breakout moment, some desperate to keep their
campaigns alive. CNN's Arlette Saenz brings us the highlights and lowlights from Las Vegas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Democrats were ready to rumble in their first chance to debate against Michael
Bloomberg.
JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: the mayor says that he has a great record, that he's done these wonderful things. Well, the fact of the matter
is, he had not managed his city very, very well when he was there.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think you look at Donald Trump and say, we need someone richer in the White House.
SAENZ (voice-over): Frontrunner Bernie Sanders, delivering the first blow.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In order to beat Donald Trump, we're going to need the largest voter turnout in the history
of the United States. Mr. Bloomberg had policies in New York City of stop and frisk. That is not a way you're going to grow voter turnout.
SAENZ (voice-over): Bloomberg, firing back at Sanders throughout the night.
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think there's any chance of the senator beating President Trump --
What a wonderful country we have, the best-known socialist in the country happens to be a millionaire with three houses. What'd I miss here?
SAENZ (voice-over): Elizabeth Warren was ready to strike, zeroing in on the former New York City mayor's alleged treatment of women.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'd like to talk about who we're running against, a billionaire who calls women fat broads
and horse-faced lesbians. And, no, I'm not talking about Donald Trump, I'm talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
But understand this. Democrats take a huge risk if we just substitute one arrogant billionaire for another.
SAENZ (voice-over): Fighting to keep her campaign alive, Warren delivered attack after attack against Bloomberg.
WARREN: He has gotten some number of women -- dozens, who knows -- to sign nondisclosure agreements, both for sexual harassment and for gender
discrimination in the workplace.
So, Mr. Mayor, are you willing to release all of those women from those nondisclosure agreements so we can hear their side of the story?
(APPLAUSE)
BLOOMBERG: We have a very few nondisclosure agreements.
WARREN: How many is that?
BLOOMBERG: Let me finish.
WARREN: How many is that?
BLOOMBERG: None of them accuse me of doing anything other than maybe they didn't like the joke I told.
They decided, when they made an agreement, they wanted to keep it quiet for everybody's --
WARREN: No --
BLOOMBERG: -- interest, they signed the agreements and that's what we're going to live with.
WARREN: I'm sorry --
This is also a question about electability. We are not going to beat Donald Trump with a man who has who knows how many nondisclosure agreements and
the drip-drip-drip of stories of women saying they have been harassed and discriminated against --
[14:20:04]
SAENZ (voice-over): Pete Buttigieg made sure Bloomberg wasn't the only candidate on stage with a target on his back.
PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Most Americans don't see where they fit, if they've got to choose between a socialist who thinks that
capitalism is the root of all evil, and a billionaire who thinks that money ought to be the root of all power. Let's put forward somebody who's
actually a Democrat.
SAENZ (voice-over): And a Midwestern melee, igniting when Buttigieg called out Amy Klobuchar for not remembering the name of Mexico's president in her
recent interview.
KLOBUCHAR: I wish everyone was as perfect as you, Pete.
Yes, that's right. And I said that I made an error. I think having a president that maybe is humble and is able to admit that, here and there,
maybe wouldn't be a bad thing.
BUTTIGIEG: But you're staking your candidacy on your Washington experience.
KLOBUCHAR: Are you trying to say that I'm dub, or are you mocking me here, Pete? I said --
BUTTIGIEG: I'm saying that you shouldn't trivialize that knowledge.
KLOBUCHAR: -- I made an error.
SAENZ (voice-over): Klobuchar, trying to shift the focus back on the candidates' real opponent.
KLOBUCHAR: We have not been talking enough about Donald Trump and what's - - let's just talk about Donald Trump.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. Mike Bloomberg just spoke out about the debate on the campaign trail, saying Donald Trump was the real winner.
Let's talk about all this with Democratic strategist Joe Trippi. Thanks for being with us. I want to run the Michael Bloomberg sound for our viewers,
and then I'll ask you a question about it. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLOOMBERG: Look, the real winner in the debate last night was Donald Trump. Because I worry that we may very well be on the way to nominating
somebody who cannot win in November. And if we choose a candidate who appeals to a small base, like Senator Sanders, it will be a fatal error.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, what do you think, Joe Trippi, about what Michael Bloomberg is saying? Does he have a point? Apparently the president just
tweeted that he agrees with him, he was the winner yesterday.
JOE TRIPPI, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think he may have been a beneficiary, but for different reasons than Mayor Bloomberg said. I mean, I
think it was more just the circular firing squad of everybody -- everybody on stage just attacking each other.
TEXT: Donald J. Trump: "The real winner last night was Donald Trump." Mini Mike Bloomberg. I agree!
TRIPPI: Elizabeth Warren, I thought, did a great job attacking Mike Bloomberg, but then she turned and attacked everybody else on stage as
well. And then, as you pointed out in your -- in the piece before this, the argument between Mayor Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar, the senator from
Minnesota, even they got into it.
So it -- I think the Trump campaign has to be happy to see this kind of infighting and attack going back and forth within the party, the Democratic
Party. We need to become unified. I was hoping that -- I think a lot of Democrats were hoping that one of the candidates would have emerged with
that message.
The only one who sort of stayed above the fray was Joe Biden, who almost stayed so far above the fray that he wasn't even at the debate.
GORANI: And also, his polling numbers have been disappointing as well, for Joe Biden. Did anyone have a breakout moment yesterday?
TRIPPI: I don't really think so. I think -- I think if anything, there was great harm done to the Bloomberg candidacy. I think last night, what we saw
in that debate was more damage being done to different members of the -- of the field, Bloomberg suffering the most.
But no one, I think, really gaining a whole lot of ground against the rest of the field, from their debate performance. The way we've seen in past
debates, Amy Klobuchar before New Hampshire had a great debate that actually helped propel her candidacy.
GORANI: If you look at the latest Gallup poll, Trump has a net positive approval rating, just a few months before the election, 49 percent approve
of the job President Trump is doing, according to this Gallup poll; 48 percent disapprove. Some political analysts are saying presidents with this
type of net positive job approval rating always win re-election. What do the Democrats need to do?
TRIPPI: Well, I mean, it's true that his approval rating has been increasing in recent weeks. But he's still in a place where it's -- it's
iffy. He can both be defeated or, if it grows further from here, he would be much tougher to defeat.
I think there are two different arguments going on within the Democratic Party. One is, that we must nominate somebody who can excite and turn out
our base supporters; and there is the other side, Joe Biden, Amy Klobuchar, Mike Bloomberg, Mayor Pete Buttigieg who are arguing that we need to not
just do that, but to actually reach out and try to bring people across the aisle, from the Republican Party and more moderate voters, into the
Democratic -- in support of the Democratic nominee. That fight is happening.
[14:25:09]
I think the general election will depend on who that nominee is and which of those arguments wins out.
GORANI: If you were advising these -- I mean, what is your take on it? Because reaching out to, you know, sort of voters on the fence, I mean, the
Republican Party, 95 percent, I believe, hit approval rating and satisfaction with President Trump. It seems like the Republican Party and
those who support Donald Trump are very much locked into their positions.
TRIPPI: Well, that's true. But I think one of the big frustrations with a lot of the Democrats who are not working for any of these candidates, is
the -- is that there's an argument that we could do both, that we should do both, that we both have to turn out our base supporters but also reach out
to a lot of moderate Republican women, younger Republican voters and bring them over.
It's not an either-or argument, it's let's do both. And unfortunately, at least right now, we have a field of candidates that are on one side or the
other and no one is making that move to that -- that common ground message. You hear it in the debate, you hear a little bit of it last night but it's
not -- it's not getting through right now.
GORANI: But there's the argument that, look, if it worked for Trump in 2016 to really energize and motivate the base with, you know, raising
issues and topics that he knows will get people to the polls, why won't Democrats do the same? Why play this middle-of-the-road game that's failed
before, and that will probably fail again? That's what critics will say, directing, you know --
TRIPPI: Yes.
GORANI: -- especially supporters of, for instance, Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, they'll say we've tried that before, it doesn't work.
TRIPPI: Yes, no, that's a -- that's the argument that they're -- that they're making. I'm not taking sides on that, I'm just sort of saying that
we haven't had -- that's the whole fight in this nomination, is it going to be that argument --
GORANI: But as a strategist -- I'm asking you as a strategist --
TRIPPI: -- that wins it, or will it be common (ph) ground (ph) --
GORANI: -- what you think is going to work, I guess?
TRIPPI: Oh, I see.
GORANI: As a -- yes.
TRIPPI: I actually, having worked on the election of Doug Jones, who won - - the first Democrat to win in Alabama in 25 years, we were able to do both, both turn out a large number of Democrats in our base, and at the
same time appeal to moderate Republican women, younger Republicans and college-educated Republicans.
Part of what Trump's problem is, is that the more he doubles down on his base, he does push some of the more moderate elements in the Republican
Party away. The question is, is there a Democrat who can appeal to those voters and at the same time, excite Democrats? That would be the perfect
nominee. I don't know that it exists among these candidates, but they're having that argument, that's what the fight's about.
GORANI: All right. Joe Trippi, thanks so much, really appreciate having you on the program.
And just a few hours from now, you can catch out next two town halls. We'll hear from Democratic candidates Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren, starting at
8:00 p.m. Eastern, 1:00 a.m. in London, 9:00 a.m. in Hong Kong on CNN.
Still to come after the break, there is no end in sight to the coronavirus epidemic in China. Thousands of kilometers away, loved ones are also
feeling the fear. We will hear from a family, separated in the crisis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:03]
GORANI: Two passengers from the Diamond Princess cruise ship have died from coronavirus. Japan's Health Ministry says both were in their 80s and were
being treated in the hospital.
Meanwhile, passengers who test negative for the virus are slowly leaving the ship. More than 200 people disembarked Thursday, I'm sure they were
very relieved. Thousands more though are still on board.
And now, there's fear that Japan could become the next hotspot in this epidemic. Officials announced 12 new cases including two government
officials who'd worked on board the quarantine Diamond Princess.
Still, the outbreak is at its worst in China, by far. That's where most of the world's 75,000 infections are. The weeks long lockdown in China is
disrupting the lives of 780 million people. It's kind of almost hard to wrap your head around that number in the epicenter Wuhan. It's not just the
lack of movement that's taking a toll. It is the fear.
David Culver speaks to a family stuck literally in the middle of it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST (voice-over): Guizhen Qian gave us a video chat tour of her Wuhan apartment. It only took a few seconds to show
us this small space where she has spent the past 20-plus days, unable to leave her home as part of the latest Wuhan lockdown measures.
GUIZHEN QIAN, GRANDMOTHER OF FELICITY (through translator): Since the lockdown, I've been really rationing my food so it'll last longer.
CULVER (voice-over): The local government has allowed for grocery delivery but Guizhen fears opening her windows and doors could mean exposure to the
novel coronavirus. She's not only protecting her own health but also that of her 2-year-old granddaughter, Felicity.
QIAN (through translator): I'm looking after this baby and the floors above and below me have confirmed coronavirus cases.
CULVER (voice-over): Felicity is a U.S. citizen. Guizhen has been raising her granddaughter as the little girl's parents are living and working in
New York City. But amid the outbreak and extreme lockdown, Felicity's mother is desperately trying to get the pair out of Wuhan.
AMANDA JIANG, MOTHER OF FELICITY: I'm afraid I cannot see my daughter again. I think if they are affected, I think they will die there.
CULVER (voice-over): Fearing the worst, Amanda Jiang is pleading with the U.S. Embassy to grant her mother-in-law a Chinese citizen, a visa so she
can accompany the toddler back to the U.S.
In the meantime, she has started stockpiling supplies in her New York City apartment, hoping to ship them to Wuhan.
JIANG: We want to send this -- all these masks to our -- to my families, to my relatives, and donate some to the hospitals.
CULVER (voice-over): But she has struggled to find a carrier to deliver within the lockdown zone. There are similar fears and frustrations shared
by other Hubei Province residents.
WENDY YANG, ON LOCKDOWN IN CHINA (via telephone): And now, we are totally blocked out. There's no person allowed to go out.
CULVER (voice-over): By phone, Wendy Yang told us that she was on day 27 or 28 inside her apartment. She's started to lose count. She sent us photos
from her window, looking out. She says she feels trapped and depressed.
YANG: So many people passed away in these long days and we all are suffering.
CULVER (voice-over): Back inside Guizhen's apartment, the 61-year-old admits she's relied on cartoons to help keep Felicity entertained.
QIAN (through translator): If it wasn't for Peppa Pig, there'd be no way I could look after her.
CULVER (voice-over): But there's an added fear for Guizhen. She says she's also battling thyroid cancer and worries she might be more susceptible to
contracting the coronavirus.
QIAN (through translator): If I get sick with this pneumonia, I have no idea what I would do with this child.
CULVER (on-camera): CNN has been in touch with the U.S. Embassy here in China, but that particular case, they tell us, they're aware of the
situation but the reality is, things are far more complicated than just simply getting the my grandmother and her grandchild on a flight out of
here. I mean, there's a lot of logistics working not only within the city of Wuhan, but also in coordination with the Chinese government.
In the meantime, the U.S. has gotten some 800 plus of its citizens on five separate flights back to the United States. All and although, there seems
to be a fear that is really shared amongst many of the folks we have talked to, who feel trapped in the city of Wuhan.
[14:35:14]
David Culver, CNN, Shanghai.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And in Iran, the sudden outbreak of the coronavirus is causing complications ahead of tomorrow's national elections. Five cases have now
been confirmed in Iran, including two deaths. The first coronavirus related deaths in the Middle East.
We spoke to CNN's Fred Pleitgen who is in Iran for the elections.
FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Hala. You know, Iran was hit very suddenly and very hard by the coronavirus. It
was only yesterday that the Iranian authorities came out and said that they had two people were they had confirmed the coronavirus. And just a couple
of hours later, they said that both of those people had died of the disease.
Now, today, there were several other cases that the Iranian say were confirmed, two of them, like the people who died came from Qom, which is
about 150 kilometers south of where I am right now, in Tehran. They said there's another case that was confirmed in Iraq, as well. And five
additional potential cases who have been brought to Tehran for further testing.
So the Iranians, clearly, dealing with that health scare because of the coronavirus are saying that they have the situation under control, but they
have, for instance, stop flights to and from China. And then Iraqi Airways has stopped flying here to Iran. So this is clearly already having an
impact somewhat on public life.
At the same time, of course, this country is gearing up for what could be a very pivotal parliamentary election that's going to happen here tomorrow.
And one of the big things people are looking at is what the turnout there is going to be. Here's what we found out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Campaigning Iranian style. Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, one of the main conservative candidates at a rally in a mosque south of
Tehran. The biggest issues the tough situation and the Trump administration's maximum sanctions.
Enemies of the Islamic Revolution led by America. When they feel our power, when they feel they're in danger, then they pursue a fight against our
religion, our beliefs, and traditions, which are the basis of the Islamic Revolution, he says.
Not far away, the moderates try to rally their troops but their popularity has shrunk as Iran's economic turmoil deepens.
One of the leaders of the reformist lists saying they want to try and end Iran's economic isolation.
Fighting the roots of corruption, promoting civil liberties and expanding social participation of the people in their destiny, as well as developing
relations with the world, he says.
But moderates around President Hassan Rouhani are under fire as the Trump administration's pull out from the Iran nuclear agreement and campaign of
maximum pressure have battered the country's economy.
In November, protests over fuel price hike caused a harsh reaction from authorities, and the recent killing by the U.S. of top Iranian general,
Qassem Soleimani --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (BLEEP).
PLEITGEN: -- and Iran's counter attack firing ballistic missiles at installations housing U.S. troops in Iraq nearly brought the two countries
to war.
Iran continues to face international backlash after it accidentally shot down a Ukrainian commercial airliner killing all those on board during the
standoff.
Voter turnout will be a major factor to watch after thousands of candidates, many of them moderates, were disqualified from running by
Iran's Guardian Council.
At a press conference, I questioned the spokesman for the council about the issue.
PLEITGEN (on-camera): Can you explain a little more the process that you go through when vetting and also disqualifying candidates for this election?
ABBAS-ALI KADKHODAEI, GUARDIAN COUNCIL SPOKESMAN (through translator): The candidates should meet the standard such as certain age and degrees and
police clearance, and also, they should not have crime record such as graft, corruption, and bad reputation.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Iran's leadership has started a P.R. campaign urging people to come out and cast their ballots, as the country battles voter
apathy from a public that continues to face major hardships.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PLEITGEN: So as you can see there, Iranian officials really trying to get people to come out and vote despite all of the things that have been
happening here in this country, all the hardships that Iran has been going through, the Supreme Leader came out and said that it's people's religious
duty to come out and vote. Hassan Rouhani has also urged people to come out as well.
But then, of course, you also do have that wildcard of, are people afraid, because of the coronavirus to actually come to larger public gatherings
because, of course, that's something they would have to do to cast their ballot. So that's certainly something that we're going to be looking at as
people start casting their ballots on Friday. Hala?
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Fred.
The U.S. ambassador to Germany, Richard Grenell, has no intelligence experience.
[14:40:00]
Despite that, President Trump selected him to be the next acting U.S. spy Chief, overseeing 17 intelligence agencies. It makes his staunch loyalty to
the president appear to be his primary qualification for the post. His work as ambassador has already angered some Republicans with his long history of
sharp elbows and controversial statements.
Now, a senior administration official says Grenell will hold both positions.
Alex Marquardt joins me now from Washington with more about the president's pick.
How will that work holding both of those positions?
ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, this is just something that's temporary. So Grenell will hold on to the ambassadorship
in Germany as well as being the Acting Director of National Intelligence. He did tweet today, in fact, and I believe that we have -- we have a
screengrab of that tweet, in which he said that this is just a temporary position before the President nominates someone as the Director of National
Intelligence.
But, Hala, make no mistake, whoever is at the head of the office of Director of National Intelligence has a massive amount of responsibility.
As you mentioned, 17 different organizations fall under that umbrella.
What you're not hearing from really anyone here in Washington is a support for Roger -- Rick Grenell being named as the acting DNI that is, of course,
outside of the White House. This is being seen as someone who is a loyalist who has been an attack dog for the President. This is someone who has no
intelligence experience, as you mentioned. He has really no national security expertise, which is literally written into the code that
established the Director of National Intelligence position after 911.
Now, we haven't really heard very much from senior Republicans, they are staying quiet. We have heard, however, from a number of Democrats,
including the ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, his name is Mark Warner from Virginia, and he says that "The President has selected
an individual without any intelligence experience. Is the intelligence community deserves stability and inexperienced individual to lead them in a
time of massive national and global security challenges."
Now, Hala, when you put Grenell's resume up against those who have held this position before him both as acting directors and confirmed directors,
he really pales in comparison. It is a long and illustrious list of people who have served in various national security capacities, including Dan
Coats who was the last Director of National Intelligence, he was a longtime U.S. senator who sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Then you have James Clapper, for example, who was an Air Force general and led the Defense Intelligence Agency. Now, of course, Hala, looking forward
this begs the question of who will eventually be confirmed or nominated as the Director of National Intelligence. We do not know that.
Again, Grenell is serving in an acting capacity that is as being seen as temporary in his own words, he expects according to sources to move on to
the Trump campaign.
But in this very divided, partisan environment, Hala, whoever the President nominates to be the Director of National Intelligence would face a very
tough confirmation site -- Senate fight. Hala?
GORANI: OK. Alex Marquardt, thanks very much.
WikiLeaks says more will be revealed next week about an extraordinary claim by an attorney for Julian Assange. The attorney for the London court that
the American President Donald Trump offered Assange a pardon. If the WikiLeaks founder would declare Russia had quote, nothing to do with the
leak of Democratic Party e-mails.
The attorney said the offer was made by an intermediary, then U.S. Congressman, Dana Rohrabacher. He acknowledges meeting Assange and
discussing pardons but insists he did not offer one from Mr. Trump.
The White House is also denying this story. Assange is fighting extradition to the U.S. where he's wanted on 18 charges.
Quick break. When we come back, the U.S. is lagging behind Iran, Turkey, and Kazakhstan in one major health issue. The death of new mothers. We'll
be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:16]
GORANI: Around the globe, maternal health is improving. But in the United States that is just the opposite. America is the only developed country
with a rising death rate for pregnant or new mothers.
Robyn Curnow has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBYN CURNOW, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR (voice-over): Little boys playing, watched over by a mom they are too young to remember.
Kira Johnson's husband, Charles, hasn't stopped remembering. He's still grieving, still angry from that night in hospital.
JOHNSON: I can see the Foley catheter coming from Kira's bedside begin to turn pink with blood.
CURNOW: He says doctors told them now-3-year-old Langston's birth would be a routine cesarean section.
JOHNSON: I just held her by her hands and said, please, look, my wife isn't doing well. And this woman looked me directly in my eyes, and she said,
sir, your wife just isn't a priority right now. It wasn't until 12:30 a.m. the next morning that they finally made the decision to take Kira back to
surgery.
CURNOW: As critical minutes turned into hours, Johnson says he was continually ignored by staff at Cedars-Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles as
Kira's health continued to suffer.
JOHNSON: When they took Kira back to surgery and he opened her up, there were three and a half liters of blood in her abdomen from where she had
been allowed to bleed internally for almost 10 hours. And her heart stopped immediately.
CURNOW: Johnson is suing the hospital for the loss of his wife. And with the case pending, Cedars-Sinai told CNN in a statement that they could not
respond directly because of privacy laws, but that "Cedars-Sinai thoroughly investigates any situation where there are concerns about a patient's
medical care."
Kira was a successful entrepreneur who spoke five languages. This is video she recorded, teaching her firstborn son to speak Mandarin. This was a
woman who could fly planes and skydive, seemed invincible to her family, which is why her death is so much harder to understand.
JOHNSON: That's when I started to do the research for myself, and I realized that, oh, my gosh, we are in the midst of a maternal mortality
crisis that isn't just shameful for American standards, it is shameful on a global scale.
CURNOW: The charity Every Mother Counts, which was started by supermodel, Christy Turlington, works across the world on maternal health, but also in
the U.S. because America is the only developed country with a rising death rate for pregnant or new mothers. Approximately, 700 women in the U.S. die
each year.
Globally, the comparison is stark. More mothers die in childbirth in America than they do in Iran, Turkey or Bosnia Herzegovina, even
Kazakhstan. All have lower maternal death rates.
LYNSEY ADDARIO, WAR PHOTOGRAPHER: Finally, they took her to the doctor --
CURNOW: Lynsey Addario is a Pulitzer Prize-winning war photographer who's documented the deaths of women in childbirth around the world in the same
way she tackles a war zone.
ADDARIO: It's almost more heartbreaking because I think when I go to war, I kind of know what to expect.
CURNOW: What she did not expect was to find that her own birthplace, America, was failing pregnant women in some of the same ways at much less
developed countries failed their mothers.
ADDARIO: When I go to the United States, I see, you know, these little scenes of heartbreak. I just can't believe they're happening in my own
country. It's almost harder.
CURNOW: Every Mother Counts says many of their deaths are because of an unequal health care system and systemic racism. Public health experts warn
this crisis is not just affecting poor or sick moms, but also healthy, college-educated African-American women.
WANDA BARFIELD, DOCTOR OF DIVISION OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, CDC: We do know that there may be issues in terms of institutional racism. A well-educated
African-American woman with more than a high school education has a fivefold risk of death compared to a white woman with less than a high
school education.
[14:50:02]
JOHNSON: There is a failure and a disconnect for the people who are responsible for the lives of these precious women and babies to see them
and value them in the same way that they would their daughters, their mothers, their sisters.
CURNOW: Now part of an unnecessarily large fraternity of Americans who have lost partners in childbirth, Charles is pushing for policy changes, raising
awareness and trying to hold doctors and hospitals accountable.
JOHNSON: If I can simply do something to make sure that I send other mothers home with their precious babies, then it's all worth it.
CURNOW: And he's raising his sons, teaching them about their mother.
JOHNSON: What I'm trying to do is just wake up every day, make mommy proud, repeat.
When did you get so good?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Good job.
CURNOW: Robyn Curnow, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, a supermodel Naomi Campbell is one of the most recognizable faces in the fashion world. I talked to Naomi earlier about the challenges
a woman faces in that industry.
First though, she spoke to us about her charity and the importance she places on education. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NAOMI CAMPBELL, FOUNDER, FASHION FOR RELIEF: We will have a three-day summit, Africa and Qatar business summit and then we will, on the third day
have Fashion For Relief which is a live show gala dinner and performance.
GORANI: And benefiting what?
CAMPBELL: Education.
GORANI: Why is it important to you to, you know, do what you can to raise money for education in parts of Africa and other parts of the world that
might need it?
CAMPBELL: Well, I think education is something that we all deserve to have and should have.
GORANI: So, you're obviously an icon of all icons in the fashion industry. In your supermodel career still very much at the top of your game. You and
I have something in common, by the way, can you guess what it is?
CAMPBELL: Birthdays?
GORANI: Yes. Well, birth years.
CAMPBELL: Seventy.
GORANI: Yes.
CAMPBELL: Oh, good.
GORANI: So we are -- so there's a big milestone coming up for you. We might get to that in a moment.
But first, I want to ask you a little bit about how the fashion industry is changing in terms of how it approaches women of color minorities in this
industry. It used to be that being for a black woman to be on the cover of Vogue or any big fashion magazine was a huge deal.
Now, there's still work to be done, right?
CAMPBELL: It's still a big deal.
GORANI: Yes.
CAMPBELL: And there's always work to be done. You never should sit on your laurels and just think everything's fine. You always have to maintain and
challenge yourself. That's how I always felt. And, you know, know what you want to try and not be afraid to try it.
GORANI: And where does the work need to be done in your opinion? And how do you fight that battle?
CAMPBELL: I mean, now, I'm looking at the same payment, you know, for doing the same work.
GORANI: Is there still a disparity?
CAMPBELL: There is. But I do feel that that's, you know -- so obviously that's where -- that's what I can come up next and that should be equal.
GORANI: I don't want to harp on this. But because we have a big milestone coming up this year, you and I, how did things change when you're an
incredibly beautiful -- and this is my first time really seeing you? Of course, I've only seen you in pictures and once briefly in passing.
So, obviously, the issue isn't there, but there's still ageism in your industry, in my industry, as well, once a woman hits 50 whatever, they
start being viewed.
CAMPBELL: I've never...
GORANI: You feel it.
CAMPBELL: No.
GORANI: Right.
CAMPBELL: I don't feel it. I don't think about it. I think feel it, I do what I have to do.
[14:55:02]
GORANI: Yes.
CAMPBELL: I do what opportunities I get to choose but I -- the opportunities that I get may enough to be in this this business for 34
years. They're still always so surprising to me. And I'm always thrilled. I love the challenge. And I still have the drive. So I don't think about age.
GORANI: I need to ask you about the fashion industry and sexism as well, because we talked about age, we talked about race, and it's almost
impossible not to talk after MeToo really open the floodgates a couple of years ago, about the movie industry, in the fashion industry, and frankly,
in the corporate world, a lot of abuse of power by men over women.
I know you've said in the past, this is not something that you experienced.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
GORANI: But was it -- is it still a problem? What needs to be done to overcome some of these issues where very young women sometimes can be
victimized or taken advantage of?
CAMPBELL: I mean, I think every type of support is good support. I believe in recovery, I am in recovery myself. And I feel it's -- no one should be
bullied to give up themselves and to be abused in any way or form.
GORANI: You -- so I checked your Instagram page, you have eight and a half million followers or something like that. And social media is great in the
sense that you can reach out to your fans and your followers without kind of a filter. But at the same time, it can cause a lot of mental health,
anguish, I think for people. And we saw -- we see it with teenagers all the time.
Is this something that you think about a little bit how this pressure being in public eye and communicating via that platform could open you up to --
CAMPBELL: Well, I'm...
GORANI: -- bullying?
CAMPBELL: I'm careful what I put on social media in the sense of I show my work stuff and what I'm doing, but I don't show my private life.
GORANI: Right.
CAMPBELL: And I don't show if I go -- I don't show when I go into my friend's homes. I don't believe in that. This is just something I think
it's not -- that's me.
GORANI: Yes.
CAMPBELL: But at the same time, social media is good for other things like getting your point across for causes that you believe in.
GORANI: One last quick question, because you have been very vocal about some of the -- I don't want to call it bullying, but I mean, some of the
tabloid presses coverage of you.
You -- when The Mail on Sunday, published a picture of you and Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein -- all that character...
CAMPBELL: No. They didn't publish a picture of me and Jeffrey Epstein because they don't have one of me and Jeffrey Epstein.
GORANI: So what did they -- they put -- they imply that you...
CAMPBELL: They published a picture of me with many people throughout my 34- year career in public events that may have fallen from grace when some which way.
And so that's supposed to reflect on me? You can't -- what are the purchase was 30 years old?
GORANI: How that character...
CAMPBELL: What does that have -- so what does that have to do with me?
GORANI: It's the tabloid press.
CAMPBELL: What is that -- that doesn't define who I am as a person. It doesn't define if your next door neighbor goes and doesn't act. You've
known them for years but you had no knowledge they were that way. That doesn't -- that doesn't define who you are.
GORANI: Not at all. But it's a method that is used to...
CAMPBELL: Well, I was not going to accept that method. And that's why I came out on my YouTube channel via Naomi and said what I had to say.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right. Naomi Campbell. She says it like it is.
Thanks for watching, I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
