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Hala Gorani Tonight
Antony Blinken: Conditions That Fuel Hostilities Between Israel And Palestine Must Be Addressed; EU to Sanction Belarus After Forced Plane Landing; Biden, Putin to Hold Summit Next Month in Geneva; Activists Push For Police Reform As World Remembers Floyd; IAEA, Iran Agree To Extend Nuclear Monitoring Agreement. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired May 25, 2021 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNNI HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN London, I'm HALA GORANI TONIGHT. America's top diplomat is in the Middle East. He's trying
to firm up that fragile ceasefire between Israel and Hamas. How that's going, we're live on the ground. Also ahead, the skies over Belarus much
quieter this evening as the EU closes its air space to planes from the country and calls on its planes to stop flying over it after a dissident
journalist was arrested on a flight diverted to Minsk.
And it's been one year since the murder of George Floyd sent shock waves around the entire world. We ask tonight, has there been any profound change
and what still needs to be done? The top U.S. diplomat says a ceasefire between Israel and Gaza militants is welcome, but quote, "not enough",
saying longstanding grievances must be addressed to prevent another round of war. Antony Blinken is about to wrap up a whirlwind day of talks with
Palestinian and Israeli leaders in separate meetings in the West Bank and Jerusalem.
The Secretary of State promised the U.S. will re-engage with Palestinians and help rebuild Gaza while keeping money out of the hands of Hamas. He
also reassured Israel that the U.S. remains committed to its defense and security. Just moments ago, Blinken summarized his talks, saying he had a
quote, "very productive day". Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: Across the meetings that I've had so far, I've heard a shared recognition from all sides that steps need to be
taken, work needs to be done to address the underlying conditions that help fuel this latest conflict. The ceasefire creates space to begin to take
those steps. Attending to the urgent humanitarian needs of Palestinians in Gaza and helping rebuild is a key starting point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: We have two live reports for you this hour. Nic Robertson is in Ramallah in the West Bank and Hadas Gold is in Jerusalem. And Nic, of
course, we've been covering this story for many years. These are words we've heard before. This is not the first Secretary of State to say that
deeper issues that cause the conflict need to be addressed. Could it be different this time? Why or why not?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: I think it's been quite frank in the lead-up to this as well, saying that this is not the
moment when the U.S. is going to engage in that sort of activity despite what we heard from the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas saying
that he wanted full political and diplomatic activities by the U.S. to exactly do that to really follow through, to really find a way to that two-
state solution that the United States believes is the peace -- is the peace solution here.
So, I think that we have heard it before, but this is sort of done with a degree more transparency, this is not him coming here and saying I'm going
to be back next week and we're going to push this plan forward. It's rather is just try to keep the ceasefire holding by building U.S. credibility back
on both sides to sort of, you know, in a way hand hold, keep a band aid on the ceasefire. You know, money for rebuilding Palestinian homes and
businesses in Gaza. Support for the Israeli government in their ability to defend themselves against Hamas rockets in the future. These are important
things, but they're not, and I don't think it's time to sell it out the path to the big solution, it's a stop-gap power.
GORANI: Right, and what about -- Hadas Gold in Jerusalem, the Netanyahu government, the Netanyahu leadership. Were they by and large happy with the
U.S.' pronouncements post-ceasefire?
HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Netanyahu standing alongside the Secretary of State commending the United States for -- he said their
steadfast support of Israel's right to defend itself and also mentioning that the Americans plan to help Israel replenish its Iron Dome missile
defense system that helps intercept those rockets coming in from Gaza. He also commended what he said was the Americans response to what they said
was the rise of anti-Semitic attacks in the United States. And one thing that I think was interesting was the mention of Iran that Netanyahu
mentioned the differences between the United States and Israel on Iran, saying that he hoped that the U.S. would not return to the 2015 JCPOA Iran
nuclear deal.
[14:05:00]
That is a point of difference, of course, between Israel and the United States. And I think it is notable how he brought that up during a trip
that's ostensibly about this ceasefire. And I think that goes to Nic's point that this trip is meant to just sure up the ceasefire as the
Americans have said, and to focus on rebuilding Gaza and bringing back humanitarian aid. There was really no serious talk it seems about anything
beyond that about a bigger conversation, about a longest-term peace deal which actually Netanyahu mentioned in his press conference, saying that he
was encouraged by the Biden administration's comments at any sort of formal peace with the Palestinians, he said requires an agreement -- a recognition
of the right of an independent Jewish state.
And he also mentioned that there, they had conversations about Israelis, that he said their remains are still in Gaza, two soldiers as well as two
civilians that Israelis believe are still in Gaza. But we didn't get any sort of confirmation about whether conversations about that are part of the
longer-term ceasefire conversation. You also have to keep in mind, Hala, about the internal political situation here in Israel at this time.
Netanyahu currently does not have the mandate to form a government, there are the opposition party led by the centrist party Yesh Atid has the
mandate right now to form a government.
They only have a few more days, but actually, and I have confirmed the Secretary of State is meeting with the leader of that centrist party, with
Yair Lapid, he is meeting with him tonight, that's been confirmed to me now. It could all sensibly be about meeting the opposition -- leader of the
opposition party. However, you have to keep in mind that things in Israeli politics could change within the next couple of weeks if the opposition
parties are able to form a government, that could change the calculations here.
GORANI: Well, the Secretary of State maybe covering his bases, thanks very much Nic Robertson and Hadas Gold. Nic is in Ramallah, Hadas Gold in
Jerusalem, very much shoring up -- an attempt to sure up the ceasefire and also comfort Israel, an important American ally. With Israel pressuring the
Biden administration not to rejoin the Iran nuclear deal, I'll be speaking with the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency about the future of
the international agreement, the 2015 agreement that Donald Trump pulled out of in 2018.
That's going to be coming up later this hour. This is sure to anger Benjamin Netanyahu; the Israeli Prime Minister, who does not want the
United States to rejoin that nuclear agreement. Now, the EU is sending a clear message to the man known as Europe's last authoritarian leader by
imposing sanctions on Belarus. It comes after a flight to Lithuania was forced to land in the Belarusian capital and a dissident journalist on
board was arrested. You see video there that was filmed right after the plane was forced to land in Minsk.
European Council condemned the incident and says there will be sanctions, not just on the people involved, but also on businesses that are financing
the Belarusian government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COMMISSION: This is an attack on democracy. This is an attack on freedom of expression, and this is an
attack on European sovereignty. And this outrageous behavior needs a strong answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, let's discuss this with David McAllister; he's a German member of the European Parliament and he joins me live from Brussels. David
McAllister, first of all, the EU's sanctions, the decisions that came out of that Brussels meeting yesterday to not allow EU carriers to fly over
Belarus, to not allow Belarusian carriers to utilize EU airports and sanctions against businesses and individuals. Is it enough?
DAVID MCALLISTER, GERMAN MEMBER OF EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT: Good evening from the European Parliament in Brussels, and indeed, I welcome the decision
taken by the EU heads of government yesterday evening. This was a clear reaction, it was a firm reaction, it was a united reaction, and now a
fourth package of sanctions against Belarus is on its way. And I expect that the foreign ministers who are meeting Wednesday and Thursday in
Lisbon, in Portugal will make the first concrete steps to implement the general decision taken by the heads of states and government.
And as Commission President Ursula von der Leyen just mentioned, this Belarusian behavior is outrageous, it is reckless and this requires a sharp
response by European Union and of course our targeted measures will be closely coordinated with our partners in the United States and Canada and
the United Kingdom, just to name three.
[14:10:00]
GORANI: And how will that work? How will any coordination with those three countries that you just listed work in order to put pressure on Belarus. I
imagined your ultimate goal is for Belarus never to do something like this again, correct?
MCALLISTER: Well, of course. This was absolutely reckless and outrageous. I mean, a civilian airplane flying from an EU member state Greece to an EU
member state Lithuania, from a NATO-member state Greece, to a NATO-member state Lithuania is forced to land in Minsk by use of a fighter plane. I
mean, this is unheard of. So, there has to be a very clear reaction, but it's also about showing further solidarity with the brave women and men in
Belarus who are fighting for their rights, who are fighting for democracy and the rule of law.
We have already adopted three packages of sanctions, now the fourth package will come and it's about targeting individuals and economic operators
around dictator Lukashenko to make them very clear, we will hit you hard for what you are responsible for. So, on the one hand, it's about targeting
and sanctioning individuals and economic operators around the dictator without harming the already suffering people of Belarus. But it's also
about continuing our support for civil society in this country.
GORANI: And you mentioned the U.S. and Canada, are they joining you in these efforts? Will they too impose sanctions? What discussions are you
having with them?
MCALLISTER: Well, since the rigged elections in August, the European Union has closely coordinated its policy on Belarus with our allies and partners
in NATO. And you have seen yesterday a very similar and very clear response not only from the European Union, but also from NATO. So this clearly
indicates that we will coordinate further steps together with our partners, not only United States, Canada and the U.K., but also with a great European
country and NATO ally, Norway.
GORANI: Have you seen the video of Roman Protasevich that was released by the Belarusian government where essentially, I mean, looks a bit like a
hostage video. He says he's been treated well. Are you concerned he's being ill-treated by the authorities there?
MCALLISTER: Well, if you've seen and observed how the Lukashenko regime has treated people who are fighting for democracy, the rule of law and
human rights, you have to be very concerned. Just a few figures. Since the protest started last Summer in Belarus, more than 33,000 people have been
arrested. In the moment --
GORANI: Yes --
MCALLISTER: More than 300 people are in jail because of their political beliefs, and more than ten people have already been killed during the
demonstrations. So, let's be very clear about -- this is of concern and we definitely call as European Union that Mr. Protasevich is released
immediately and also his partner Sofia Sapega.
GORANI: Are you worried he's being ill-treated right now?
MCALLISTER: Well, I think you have to be worried. I mean, this dictator has shown how scrupulous he is to force a civilian airplane flying over
Belarusian air space down to Minsk, and this was obviously accompanied and organized by the Belarusian Secret Service. And it was dictator Lukashenko
himself who is behind this. This is all very concerning, but it just shows you that this brutal dictator is so scrupulous and he will do anything in
his fight against his own people. In the end, I am sure that the people in Belarus will succeed, and that this last dictator in Europe will eventually
fall. We as European Union will support the Belarusian people in their call for a free and fair elections under international observation --
GORANI: Can you --
MCALLISTER: But of course, this needs some serious long-term planning.
GORANI: I understand that. But Roman Protasevich doesn't have a long term -- the luxury of long-term planning. How do you get him out? How do you get
the Belarusian government to release him? What is the EU's leverage here?
[14:15:00]
MCALLISTER: Well, we have the diplomatic tools, put political pressure on the dictator and his regime. We will now see that the new sanctions will be
more focused also on economic operators. We have to make clear that people from the business community, companies, economic actors who are financing
the Lukashenko regime will have to carry severe consequences. Will have to shoulder severe consequences. This is the diplomatic tool we as a European
Union have. We need international pressure on Mr. Lukashenko, that this simply has to stop. This is outrageous what has happened the last 48 hours.
GORANI: All right, the chairman of the European Parliament Committee on Foreign Affairs, David McAllister joining me live for -- from Brussels.
Thanks so much for being with us. Staying on Belarus, a number of major airlines are no longer flying over Belarusian airspace after the forced
landing on Sunday. Richard Quest joins me now, and we have that flight tracker map that shows basically a big sort of hole without any air
activity over Belarus. Talk to us a little bit about the impact on civil aviation that this is having.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Well, north, south is quite straightforward. You just sort of go a little bit round. But you --
GORANI: Yes --
QUEST: Keep going in the -- you keep essentially going in the same direction. So, the air traffic flows north-south, not that difficult. The
ones east-west, west-east are more difficult particularly if you're coming from say the U.K., France, Germany because there you get to Belarus and you
have to take quite a long detour that goes around it. But this is a price and a measure, and that the airlines say they're going to pay. Look,
Lufthansa is doing it, Baltic -- it was one of the first to do it, and Austrian is doing it. And I think also Belavia, the airline of Belarus is
pretty much finding that it can't fly anywhere. Now, there's a difference here, Hala, because at the moment, these air restrictions, the U.K. has
already brought them in, but the EU governments are still working on them.
So, this no fly zone if you like over Belarus is primarily self-imposed by the airlines involved. And there's aircraft that you are seeing flying
over, there will be Russian planes. They will be -- there are some KLMs still going across, I believe. They will be mainly Russian aircraft, air
flight and the like who are still maintaining over flight over Belarus.
GORANI: All right, Richard Quest, thanks very much, we'll see you on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" --
QUEST: You would --
GORANI: Next hour. The White House has confirmed that the U.S. President Joe Biden will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin face-to-face in Geneva
next month. The Belarusian crisis surely will be on the agenda, it is the first time the two men meet face-to-face since Biden took office. The White
House says the plan is to discuss a range of issues including strategic stability and arms control, and as I mentioned, Belarus will certainly pop
up, Ukraine as well and other big issues that have been kind of tense topics of discussion between the two countries over the last several years.
Still to come, investigators looking into the origins of COVID-19 may have a new lead. We'll explain why the timing of some animal testing in China is
raising eyebrows. Plus, the U.S. tells its citizens, don't travel to Japan as COVID-19 cases skyrocket with less than two months to go before the
Tokyo Olympics. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:20:00]
GORANI: Concerns are growing about a potential oil spill off the coast of Sri Lanka after an explosion aboard a cargo ship, you see the images there
on the right-hand side of your screen. Video there showing flames and smoke pouring from the ship. It was successfully evacuated Tuesday. A Sri Lankan
official tells CNN it's likely the ship will sink. It sure looks like it from these images, and that could send thousands of gallons of oil into the
surrounding water. An Indian coast guard is now assisting in efforts to put out the fire and contain a potential spill.
A source tells CNN that previously overlooked data on China screening of animals for COVID-19 is getting new scrutiny from the World Health
Organization, and it is further fueling speculation about the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. Nick Paton Walsh has our report, Nick.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Now, Hala, these important new details and a source close to the investigation had said to
me did strike many of the investigators from the W.H.O., comes in the large nearly 200-page annex that was given out with the W.H.O. report when it was
released back in March. And there's one key thing that strikes many people. That China had in fact taken samples of many different animals in Hubei
that could have been carrying or spreading the coronavirus, the novel coronavirus in early December 2019. In fact, the samples were taken on the
day before the first human in China was acknowledged as having been infected.
Now, we asked China about this extraordinary coincidence, and they said this was part of regular sampling they do, and in fact, the samples were
tested for coronavirus at a later stage when testing became available. But it does certainly mean, and this is something that a source close to the
investigation was interested in too, that there must be a library possibly kept samples from animals for a substantial period of time. And W.H.O.
panel, I think want to look at that in more detail. At the same time, these animal samples are being kept, yes, but the annex also talks about some
human tissue samples taken at also sensitive important times that have in fact been destroyed by a hospital in early 2020.
So much confusion as to why these two different standards. The W.H.O. panel definitely wants to go back. They definitely want to continue their
investigations. They said the source possibly, they have to go in smaller groups than they did initially. Back earlier on this year, but at the same
time too, this annex reveals one other interesting thing too, about the Huanan seafood market that so many of us associate with the origins of the
coronavirus in Wuhan city. Now, they've looked at the early cases, and I think that very few of them in fact had contact with that market. In fact,
that had a contact what it seems at about 27, 28 different markets across that area.
So, increasingly, unsure what role that market played, and the one patient who they think was the first in China to be infected onset of symptoms late
December, 2019. This man, an accountant from his family company, in fact, never went to one of these exotic sea food markets at all. He in fact only
went to the equivalent of a Chinese Wal-Mart, Wuhan Tian Mart(ph). So, so much data in this annex, a lot of it fiddly and I've written quite a nerdy
piece about this, if you want to go more into the details on our website. But a lot of it very important in establishing quite where this began. More
details to look into, more in fact showing how much more transparent China could be, and also at the end of the day suggesting this probably began in
November 2019 rather than December. Very interesting details here, Hala, which I think merit important urgent investigation. Back to you.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much Nick Paton Walsh. Speaking of COVID, the U.S. State Department is warning Americans not to travel to Japan
because in Japan there's been a dramatic jump in COVID-19 cases.
[14:25:00]
And adding complicating things, the Tokyo Olympics are less than two months away, and pressure is growing to either cancel or postpone the Summer
games. But the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Committee are saying that they're confident that athletes and staff will be safe despite the travel
warnings. And Japanese officials say the U.S. still backs the games.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATSUNOBU KATO, CHIEF CABINET SECRETARY, JAPAN: We believe that there's no change in the U.S. position to support the Japanese government's
determination to realize the hosting of the Tokyo Olympics and Paralympics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, a lot more to come, this evening, the world is marking the one year anniversary of the killing of George Floyd. Are continued calls
for social justice being heard? Have they changed anything? We'll also be talking about the impact of the Floyd killing on social justice movements
around the world. Then later, the future of the international deal to rein in Iran's nuclear program, I'll speak with the director general of the
IAEA. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTALINA GEORGIEVA, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND: We have seen in this pandemic that we are vulnerable to shocks. And what is
ahead of us is a more-shock-pronged world. To build resilience to these shocks, we ought to invest in people so they are healthy, educated,
protected in tough times and resilient. We have to invest in nature so nature is resilient, and of course, we have to continue to invest in the
resilience of our economy. I think that the pandemic has put a ear-ring on our ears, and it is, don't joke with nature. It also told us we're in this
together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I am Hala Gorani in London. Well, people around the world are marking the one year anniversary of the police killing of George Floyd in
the United States. In fact, members of the Floyd family are spending time today with U.S. President Joe Biden at the White House. Meanwhile, in
Minneapolis where Floyd was killed, a moment of silence today as crowds gather to remember the man whose death sparked global protest demanding
racial justice and an end to police brutality. And here is what's happening in Minneapolis right now by the way at the rise and remember George Floyd
celebration.
Crowds are expected to come out later today, they will also be holding a 9- minute-29 seconds silence. And of course, that's marking the amount of time that former police officer -- that former police officer was convicted of
the murder of George Floyd kneeled on his neck.
[14:30:00]
And activists in the U.S. are continuing to push for meaningful police reform. CNN's Omar Jimenez caught up with members of one such group in
Minneapolis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACTIVIST: Say his name.
ACTIVISTS: George Floyd.
ACTIVIST: Say his name.
ACTIVISTS: George Floyd.
ACTIVIST: Say his name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They were unforgettable images.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE FLOYD: Man, I can't breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Born from an unforgettable video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We put that before us at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Now a year later, activists meet in the basement of this Minneapolis church with a singular mission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief Arradondo's vision reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: The Unity Community Mediation Team, as they're known, has been working directly with the Minneapolis Police Department in hopes of turning
it into a better one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: What is different here in Minneapolis and what is different in the fight that you all are trying to wage?
IAN D. BETHEL, PASTOR, NEW BEGINNINGS BAPTIST MINISTRY: The difference now is that there's more awareness of the atrocities that the Minneapolis
Police Department has been getting away with for decades. That's the difference.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Back in 2003, this group negotiated a federally mediated memorandum of agreement detailing concerns over use of force, police
community relations, and more, a document then Sergeant Medaria Arradondo help negotiate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AJ FLOWERS JR., CO-CHAIR, UNITY COMMUNITY MEDIATION TEAM: The future is what matters and we all got children or we all got younger people out here
and it's even seven, eight-year-olds who's afraid when they see police,
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: But strategies over how to proceed with police have been divided at times. City Council President Lisa Bender and others have led attempts
to dismantle the police department in favor of a wider encompassing community safety department.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA BENDER, PRESIDENT, MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL: We have invested like so many cities for years, for decades in policing as basically the only way
we're investing in keeping people safe. So people think of policing as synonymous with safety, but it isn't working.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: The mayor of Minneapolis sees it differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR JACOB FREY, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA: These programs need to operate as supplemental to the work that is underway already in our police department.
You need law enforcement and you need the community-driven approach working simultaneously to see safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Frey pointed to changes they've made in the past year, bans on chokeholds, requiring intervention on unreasonable uses of force by
officers, and more. But overall, it's been a process that's been ongoing for decades. Meanwhile, names, hashtags, Jamar Clark, Breonna Taylor,
Philando Castile, black faces begin to run together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN THOMPSON, MINNESOTA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Kid runs up to me like "Mr. Thompson, Mr. Thompson, they just killed someone in Brooklyn Center."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: State Representative John Thompson's friend, Philando Castile, was shot and killed by a Minnesota police officer in 2016. That officer was
never convicted on any charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMPSON: We could have saved George Floyd's life. In 2016, when Philando was murdered, we could have saved Daunte Wright's life when George Floyd
was murdered. Had we just, like, looked at police accountability pieces seriously and said we're going to put an end to this right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: The stakes after decades of attempts are as high as human life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETHEL: We have to be serious about being at the table and making some concrete decisions about reform that will last generationally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: A year after one video shook the world, the effort to bring about long-term change continues so future generations won't have to watch new
ones. Oman Jimenez CNN, Minneapolis.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And let's stay with this topic, because this isn't just about the death of George Floyd in the United States, it's about what this death --
what energy it infused in social justice movements around the world. It pushed protesters into the streets in London, in Paris. They demanded
reform, they demanded racial equality. Did it work? Has anything really changed? With me now from London is American-British playwright, novelist,
critic and broadcaster Bonnie Greer. And it's always a pleasure to be able chat with you and to speak with you.
BONNIE GREER, AMERICAN-BRITISH PLAYWRIGHT & NOVELIST: Good to see you. Good to see you, Hala.
GORANI: Unfortunately not in person tonight.
GREER: No. No.
GORANI: We're still respecting COVID restrictions. Hopefully soon. Let me ask you, why did this George Floyd murder and the protests that it spawned
resonate outside the United States? There had been other cases of killings of black men and women at the hands of police in America. This one was
different. Why?
GREER: I think partly because we saw it. We saw it in real time. And we knew something about it, as human beings collectively, we knew this man was
being murdered so that that was a incredibly strong human response.
[14:35:00]
I think also in each country here in the United Kingdom, in France, Germany, people of color are responding at a local level to the issues that
have been affecting them for decades. So, George becomes a metaphor for what they're doing.
GORANI: Yes.
GREER: And frankly, third, and what I'm writing about my paper this week, I think the pandemic had a lot to do with people coming out into the street,
as human beings, and also to get out and express themselves. So, I think it's a very complex sort of set of circumstances.
GORANI: So it was kind of a perfect storm of events. We saw it on camera, we saw the killing happen, really second by seven second, it's actually
excruciating I can't watch it anymore. I've seen it too many times.
GREER: No, I've only watched it once. Yes, I've only watched it once.
GORANI: Yes, I've seen it too many times. But then what's interesting is that then other social justice movements starting using the George Floyd.
Not just his story, but the iconography. I mean, his face has been graffitied and painted on walls in Idlib, Syria, of all places. So the
George Ford case and the injustice that's seen as having killed him, the system, is resonating in other cases.
GREER: But that's a double-edged sword. And it has a lot to do with the age that we're living in. In -- on one level, it's algorithm-driven. I mean,
this is an image that you can pick up and you can use, and it's speaking to everybody. The downside, Hala, is that it obliterates local things. So,
I've been tweeting and saying on social media for the last couple of days to young people, there are a lot of things going on here in Britain that we
need to focus on. And those are just as important, and maybe more important, than this murder in Minneapolis.
And the other thing is that George Floyd is a fluke, not his murder. Murder is not a fluke. But the aftermath of it, the justice he got, the guilty
verdict, which is unheard of in cop killings, just about in United States, all of this is unusual. So somehow, we've got to find a way to take what's
common, and use it for what we need to do locally.
GORANI: Then you have cases like in France, Adama Traore, who became kind of the, you know, the French George Floyd. So you're starting to have also
there cases of involving minorities, black and brown, men and women who also become household names in their own countries. And this pre-George
Floyd wasn't necessarily the case.
GREER: Well, to a certain extent it was not as, say, as loud as it is.
GORANI: Yes.
GREER: And that was social media that drove it. But I think what we need to bring on board is that we need legislation, you know. There are almost
7,000 -- I mean, thousands of police forces in the United States of America, all of them are under local control. Well, the George Floyd Bill
that the President is trying to get through will allow a federal response so that we can -- that's how the clan was defeated at the federal level.
I think now we need to do a whole institutional racism sort of audit, where then we begin to look at how we can work with the judiciary and with our
legislatures to end what really is the problem is systemic racism.
GORANI: But then you have --
GREER: And that's what we need to do.
GORANI: But Bonnie, as you know, in the U.K., for instance, reports are coming out, and one in particular, essentially denying that there is
systemic racism in the country. And if you -- if that's your starting point, how do you fix a problem if you don't acknowledge that you have that
problem?
GREER: Well, it's not only just a report, it's the government -- it's a report to the government. So it actually sets a definition of --
GORANI: Yes.
GREER: -- what's going on in this country and we'll set it for decades. No, I think it's a two-pronged thing, we must keep the pressure on. But the
ultimate game is to get the legislation done. And that's what will make the change, you have to change people in law, and then their hearts and their
minds will follow.
GORANI: I want to ask you one last question. Has --
GREER: Yes.
GORANI: I mean what has changed in the last year for the better in your opinion?
GREER: Well, if you're in the corporate world or show business, Hala, you're doing OK, you know, and maybe you're doing a little bit OK in your -
- if you work in an office. But if you are a person who doesn't have any of those things, you know, a bouncer was abused, racially abused in England at
a restaurant.
[14:40:06]
And that woman's been banned, but the man has a scar.
GORANI: Yes.
GREER: Look, he has to go to work, and he has that scar. That's what we need to deal with. And that's the issue.
GORANI: Bonnie Greer, thanks very much. Always a pleasure talking to you. Thanks for your thoughts this evening.
GREER: Thank you, Hala. Thank you. Thank you.
GORANI: And an update on a story we've been following, police in London say the shooting of a British Black Lives Matter activist, Sasha Johnson, was
in fact not a targeted attack. That's according to police. Johnson was shot in the head early Sunday at a house party and police say four men entered
the garden of the property and fired a gun. Sasha Johnson remains in critical condition.
The Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency tells me that he sees a will to revive the nuclear deal. But in the meantime, it's
his job to make sure the world is not flying blind on Iran's enrichment activity, my conversation next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Iran and the International Atomic Energy Agency have agreed to extend a Nuclear Monitoring Agreement for one month, one short month. It's
a move meant to try and salvage talks this week in Vienna between Iran and global powers. I spoke to the IAEA Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi a
short time ago about the negotiations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Iran is enriching at a higher percentage. It seems like it's going further away from the terms of the original deal than coming closer to
those terms.
RAFAEL MARIANO GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IAEA: These can be reversed. When you refer to the higher levels of uranium enrichment they are embarking on.
GORANI: 60 percent.
GROSSI: 60 percent is very high. You know that military grade is 90 percent, so it's very close to that. They know it, everybody knows it. So I
hope this also helps focus people's attention and the negotiator's attention.
[14:45:00]
But, of course, for this to happen, there are a number of conditions that need to be fulfilled, including in a non-nuclear aspect which has to do
with sanctions and things that are no --
GORANI: You mean the U.S. lifting its sanctions essentially?
GROSSI: Exactly. These are not things where we are working on, it is more of a political issue. But everything is interconnected.
GORANI: As you got this extension to an inspection --
GROSSI: Yes. Yes.
GORANI: -- the ability for the IAEA to inspect via cameras, not with in person monitors, that was extended until June 24th.
GROSSI: Yes.
GORANI: It's a very short period of time for you --
GROSSI: It's indeed --
GORANI: -- to achieve anything.
GROSSI: Indeed very short. So we sat down and -- to analyze what was possible. And all what we could agree on was to have an extension of this,
as I say, stopgap mechanism for one more month.
GORANI: What can you achieve with, really, a limited ability to exercise checks --
GROSSI: Well, a limited ability is better than nothing --
GORANI: -- on the nuclear -- yes.
GROSSI: -- when we are talking about these activities in enrichment, and other things that are taking place. So, what I needed to avoid was to be
flying blind when this is happening. So, when the negotiations with the JCPOA partners, and hopefully, positively, then we will be able to
reconstruct the whole picture. Not have a knowledge gap, a black hole, so to speak, where we will be able to say to give the guarantees as inspectors
that we are, that there's no diversion of nuclear material, and that we can continue positively.
GORANI: You talked about the political aspect, and that's what's key. Right? What does the Iran want? Is that the biggest stumbling block, the
lifting of sanctions in European --
GROSSI: Well, it's for Iran to answer. I guess so. You know, my thing is the nuclear inspections. But we know that everything is interconnected. And
one must remember that the philosophy, at the heart of this agreement in 2015, was to give Iran incentives to limit its nuclear program. And this is
what was missing. And I suppose this is what they are discussing with the Americans.
GORANI: Are you getting signals that this is likely to succeed, this negotiation? Because the world is really waiting with bated breath here.
GROSSI: Well, I believe I'm not part of that negotiation, we are accompanying it. One thing I could say, I see a will to come to an
agreement. But, of course, as you know, in any negotiation, the devil is in the details and they have to come to an agreement. We, as inspectors, are
trying to make sure that whatever they agree on is inspectable so we can give guarantees that what is there on a piece of paper is really true.
GORANI: You mentioned that 60 -- and correct me if I'm wrong, it is 63 percent, the level of it?
GROSSI: 60 percent, got it.
GORANI: 60 percent versus 3.67 percent during the deal, correct? I mean, I'm obviously not an expert so please correct me if I say something.
GROSSI: No, but it's correct. This is correct, yes.
GORANI: How quickly would it be possible to drop back down to the level of the 2015 agreement for Iran? Is this something that can be done
immediately?
GROSSI: Yes. They have to stop.
GORANI: So it's just a flick of a switch?
GROSSI: No. I mean, I'm simplifying a little bit.
GORANI: Yes. Yes.
GROSSI: It is a switch.
GORANI: Yes.
GROSSI: If it's different kind of a switch, but it's a switch. What we need to agree on is what we're going to do with the accumulated material they
have been stockpiling when they were running their centrifuges to get the - - to this 60 percent. And then what to do with this special models, if I can call them like that, of centrifuges that allow you to get to these
levels.
We are going to -- they are going to discuss with the other partners in the JCPOA what to do with the material, shape it out, down blend it, I mean
there are a number of activities that we can inspect and we can verify. And then, when they agree to this, then we will notionally go back to normal.
GORANI: Your end goal, though, is to get enrichment back down and your monitors back in.
GROSSI: Yes.
GORANI: Because the agreement in 2015 was if you suspect that something is --
GROSSI: Indeed. Indeed.
GORANI: -- going on, that you should be able to have access to these sites.
GROSSI: Indeed. This is key. Without it, agreements are just words on a piece of paper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. There you have it, the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency, Rafael Grossi. Still some optimism
there coming from him that perhaps that 2015 deal can be revived.
Austria is taking some drastic steps regarding travel from Britain. We'll tell you why. And that as the British Prime Minister prepares for a
potential reputational blow from one of his former top aides. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:52:33]
GORANI: Well, despite a successful vaccine rollout and easing of restrictions, the U.K. is not in the clear yet when it comes to COVID-19. A
fresh reminder came with the latest government guidance. People have been advised not to travel into and out of eight areas in England because of
concerns about the spread of the variant first detected in India. Unlike the rest of the country, people in those areas also should not meet with
others indoors. Cases of that particular strain of the virus have increased by over 160 percent in one week, causing some alarm.
Austria even went as far as banning all passenger flights from the U.K. from June 1st. So, we're not out of this by any stretch. The U.K.'s early
response to COVID-19 is set to be under the spotlight Wednesday during a hearing in Parliament. Boris Johnson's former right-hand man, Dominic
Cummings, will testify and he's already hinted he may reveal new details about mistakes he says or may say the Prime Minister made early in the
pandemic. Nobilo explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Machiavelli and Dominic Cummings, separated by five centuries but often compared. Caricatured for their
cunning ruthlessness and influence on men in power. When Prime Minister Boris Johnson brought Cummings into Downing Street as an advisor, it was
divisive. Cummings' disdain for the establishment and casual dress set him apart as a maverick. He was the architect of the controversial campaign for
Brexit, which redrew the political map.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOMINIC CUMMINGS, FORMER CHIEF ADVISER TO BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: You guys should get out of London. Go and talk to people who are not rich Remainers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: His role was immortalized by Benedict Cumberbatch in an HBO drama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH, ACTOR: We need to understand who our voters are. Appeal to their hearts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: After delivering Brexit and Johnson's 2019 historic election victory, Cummings seemed indispensable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: You must stay at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: The turning point came at the peak of Britain's COVID-19 crisis when the country was under a strict lockdown. Cummings was forced to
explain to an outrage nation why he had traveled 260 miles from London to his hometown for childcare support, and had been seen visiting beauty spot
Barnard Castle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it seems as if there was one version of the rules for you and one version of the rules for everyone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Still Johnson stuck by his math.
[14:55:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNSON: I think he followed the instincts of every father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Although that didn't last forever.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOEY JONES, FORMER ADVISER TO FORMER U.K. PM THERESA MAY: Boris Johnson is somebody who likes to be liked. Dominic Cummings is someone who rather
relishes being a pantomime villain. And you can see how that sort of a relationship might come under strain and ultimately come apart at the
seams.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: It did. About six months ago when he quit. Since then, a briefing war has ensued between number 10 and the Prime Minister's former right-hand
man, Cummings compounded the scandal about whether or not the Prime Minister had planned to use donor money to renovate the Downing Street
flat, calling his behavior unethical, foolish, and possibly illegal.
He also questioned Johnson's handling of the pandemic, which has cost over 150,000 lives in the United Kingdom. On Wednesday, Cummings will give
evidence to MPs about the government's COVID response, something he's urged parliament to investigate. It could be his most explosive revelations yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: This is the first time, really, that we will see that decision- making exposed in a sort of minute by minute, detail by detail fashion from somebody who was absolutely in the room and at the heart of it all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your next move?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOBILO: Advisers are never supposed to become the story. On Wednesday, we can expect Cummings to defy convention yet again. Bianca Nobilo, CNN,
London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, staying in the British Parliament, and let's talk a little bit about mental health, one of its youngest members is taking time or in
fact, its youngest member is taking time off because of mental health struggles. Nadia Whittome, who is 24, says she's been suffering from
posttraumatic stress disorder for months. The opposition Labour Party MP said in a statement she's tried to manage work with her health issues, but
admitted quote, "Unfortunately, it has become clear that it is not feasible and I have been advised by my doctor to take several weeks off."
She goes on to say, "Through being open about my own mental health struggle, I hope that others will also feel able to talk about theirs."
Nadia Whittome there taking some time off to deal with some mental health issues. Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. I'm in London. I'll
have more for you tomorrow, same time, same place. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
