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Hala Gorani Tonight
U.S. FDA Vaccine Advisors Meet to Discuss Booster Shots; Cuba Vaccinates Children As Young As Two Years; U.K. Travel Secretary Announces Simplified Travel Rules. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired September 17, 2021 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN in London, I'm HALA GORANI TONIGHT. American officials are weighing the pros and cons of
booster jabs. Right now, we expect a yes or no vote very soon. We'll bring you the latest. Then after CNN uncovered evidence of atrocities in
Ethiopia, the U.S. President is promising to take action.
And later, a city known for art and culture has a new installation, and you cannot miss it. Find out what Parisians really think of the Arch of
Triumph's new look. We begin tonight with a debate over those booster shots in the United States. Independent vaccine advisors for the FDA are meeting
right now and have been for a few hours to decide whether to recommend those boosters for the general public. A period for discussion and vote is
expected to begin sometime this hour.
Monday is the day the White House had set for rolling out the boosters, but the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control still need to sign off on the
plan. And there are concerns that the decision is being rushed a bit because of that target date. Our health reporter Jacqueline Howard joins me
now live from Atlanta with more on this story. What are they weighing now, the FDA, the Centers for Disease Control? They're making what they hope to
be a considered decision based on evidence. What are they taking into account?
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: That's right, Hala. They're really looking at all of the body of research that's out there currently on the
effectiveness and safety of a third dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. And those vaccine advisors to the FDA are meeting right now at
this very moment. Already today, they've heard from CDC public health officers who shared data on the current state of the pandemic here in the
And the advisors also heard from Pfizer and heard from the company itself and the data that it's putting forth to really make the argument for its
vaccine to be used as a booster dose. And they also heard from a public health director at the Israel Ministry of Health. And what this health
official did, she presented data on what Israel has seen so far in its booster rollout. Some of that data include that the safety profile for the
booster is similar to what's seen after you receive a first dose and second dose.
And she also presented data detailing how the effectiveness of the booster -- you see here on this model. It was able to keep hospitalization rates
down compared with if a booster was not used. So, you see on this graph here, if a booster was not used, what the results would have been when it
comes to active severe cases, could have been what's seen in red. There could have been a big increase in hospitalizations. But due to rolling out
a booster, the public health officer out of Israel made the argument that the nation was able to keep its hospitalization rates down at that lower
portion of the graphic.
So, that's what's been seen so far, Hala. But the meeting is still underway, and we should hear how the committee will decide on boosters
later this afternoon here in the United States.
GORANI: So, obviously the world is watching and the world is waiting for the decision coming out of the FDA because it could set a precedent
certainly for other medical and health authorities around the world. What are the arguments against a third shot?
HOWARD: It will be interesting to see if the committee decides to not support a third dose. And, again, these are just advisors, so, they will
make a recommendation to the FDA. They are advisors to the FDA, so, they'll make their recommendation to the agency, and then the agency will have to
decide what to do here. But the arguments against a booster, Hala, many medical experts have said that we already are seeing positive results with
just the first and second dose of the Pfizer vaccine, which is called the primary series.
So, the argument would be how much more of an effect could we see from a booster? How much of a boost, so to speak, could we see an immunity if it's
not that much or if it's even somewhat comparable, then what's the point? And there are also concerns about getting the unvaccinated vaccinated first
before rolling out a third dose for those who are already vaccinated. And then here in the United States, Hala, our health departments, our
hospitals, our pharmacies are currently really overwhelmed with the current surge in COVID-19 cases caused by the Delta variant.
We also are approaching a flu season here in the United States. So, there are concerns about what the rollout of boosters could look like as far as
capacity to actually administer these vaccinations. So, there's also those logistics that have to be ironed out if, in fact, the agency, the FDA
decides to authorize boosters and if in fact the CDC recommends it. But we are waiting to see first how these public health agencies, FDA and CDC will
GORANI: All right, thanks very much Jacqueline Howard for joining us from Atlanta. So, there are so many questions about how to manage this pandemic.
One of them that we discussed there with Jacqueline about whether or not people should get a third shot after they've been jabbed twice. Another big
question is whether or not to vaccinate children, and if you do decide to vaccinate children, how young should these children be? Cuba is now
vaccinating children as young as two years old and is believed to be the first country to do so on a large scale. It's part of an effort to reopen
schools there, and it follows a rise in pediatric COVID cases due to Delta.
CNN's Patrick Oppmann is on this story, he's live in Havana. Talk to us about what you saw when you visited some of these doctors offices and
hospitals where they are vaccinating toddlers, essentially.
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, and it's not mandatory yet in Cuba. While many vaccines are, the Cuban government says it's up to
parents at this point to decide whether or not to vaccinate their kids. And we saw over 200 parents with their children just in one clinic here in
Havana, there are many more across this island -- people who have gone in saying that as they've seen the rise in cases here and in some extreme
cases actual deaths of newborn infants, children and teenagers, people who are not supposed to get -- at least up until the Delta variant, seriously
ill. These parents said that they could not wait any longer. That they felt the time was now to get their children vaccinated.
OPPMANN (voice-over): First comes the jab and then the tears. In this one clinic in Havana, the day we visited, over 230 children between the ages of
two and five were vaccinated. Hospital administrators tell us. Several countries around the world have begun to vaccinate children, but Cuba is
believed to be the first to vaccinate toddlers on a large scale. Even though, COVID vaccinations aren't mandatory here, Laura tells me she didn't
hesitate to bring her 4-year-old daughter Annie-Sol(ph) to get the shot.
"I'm relieved", she says, "because a lot of people are still getting sick. And with the vaccine, we are more protected." Rather than rely on importing
vaccines from abroad, Cuba has produced its own home-grown anti-COVID drugs. The island's government says studies show they are safe, even in
children, and have begun sending data to the World Health Organization for its approval. With the Delta variant, cases in children are soaring in
Cuba. And just since August, ten children have died according to government statistics, something doctors here tell us they didn't expect would happen.
"It's more gratifying to vaccinate a child", she says. "You put the vaccine and know they're going to be immunized and won't have serious complications
or even die from COVID." The pandemic has hit Cuba hard with food and medicine shortages, and in-person schooling cancelled indefinitely.
(on camera): Cuban officials had said that they would reopen schools in early September, but with the surge of new cases and deaths, those plans
are on hold. Now officials say that before they can safely reopen schools, they have to complete an island-wide vaccination campaign, that includes
children. I meet Marcel(ph) and her daughter Paula(ph) right before the 3- year-old gets her vaccine. "I'm very happy", she says, "more than when I got vaccinated. Vaccinating her is the biggest comfort yet."
(voice-over): Cuba's vaccines require three doses, so there are more jabs to come for these kids. But parents say, if it means that life could begin
to return to normal for their children, then all the tears will have been worth it.
OPPMANN: And Hala, it appears more and more now that life cannot get back to normal if you don't have school. And during the entire pandemic, places
like parks, movie theaters, even the beach have been closed throughout all of this. So, one of the main complaints here that parents have, parents
like myself, is that you have nowhere to take your kids. It's really very difficult to keep your kids in houses all day long, in small apartments as
is the case for many people. So, initially, the Cuban government thought they could open up before they were going to vaccinate kids.
They have now realized that, that cannot happen, that people need to send their kids back to school before they can go back to work, before they can
turn to some kind of normalcy. Hala?
GORANI: All right, Patrick Oppmann, thanks very much, reporting from Havana. So, if you have traveled to the U.K. in the last few years, this is
going to come as good news for you. The U.K.'s Transportation chief just announced some major changes to coronavirus travel restrictions, meaning
it's going to get easier to travel to the U.K. The Transport Secretary says starting October 4th, there will be no more red, amber, green traffic light
system, instead, countries with high coronavirus transmission rates will be on a single red list, and travelers from non-red list countries will not
have to take a PCR test in order to travel to the U.K..
And on day two, the requirement won't be a PCR test, but a cheaper antigen. One of those rapid antigen tests. So, there you have it. In a couple of
weeks, things will get easier for people traveling to Great Britain. Afghanistan's neighbors say the world must accept a new reality in the
country, including the Pakistani Prime Minister, Imran Khan. He's been speaking at a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization which has
eight members including India, China and Russia. Mr. Khan has called for national reconciliation in Afghanistan.
Our international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Kabul for us. And it seems as though so many of these neighboring countries are saying, look,
the Taliban's in charge, get over it, make peace with them and move on.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the other message coming from these near neighbors, China today, we heard from President Xi,
say that actually the Taliban need to be -- need to have an inclusive government. They need to move towards an inclusive government. This is a
little out-of-the-ordinary for China to sort of have views and express them so publicly on the affairs of a neighbor, but they're saying that very
clearly about the Taliban. They're also saying that the Taliban should move to sort of moderate views for the -- both internally and its dealings with
the international community.
So, you know, big hitters like China here are sending a very clear message to the Taliban that the Taliban are still not measuring up. Absolutely,
Imran Khan of Pakistan is really the one, you know, leading the charge to build a quick and ready acceptance of the Taliban because if there isn't
that acceptance, the money doesn't flow to -- international funds don't flow to Afghanistan. The economy tanks even further. And Pakistan will be
on the receiving end of a lot of refugees. So, Prime Minister Imran Khan has a lot of skin in the game. But very interesting to hear President Xi
weighing in about what the Taliban should do, moderate and be inclusive.
GORANI: Interesting, and also it's going to be interesting to see if the Taliban listen because frankly their latest move doesn't seem to indicate
that they're in any kind of mood to include minorities and women, in particular, since they have replaced the women's ministry in Kabul with the
Morality Police headquarters.
ROBERTSON: Literally taking down one sign and putting up the other, Hala, in broad daylight, not a bat of an eyelid seen when we went down there to
take a look. Just two Taliban sitting on the gates. This is phenomenal, really, for all those of us who sort of listen to the Taliban, saying that
this was going to be a Taliban 2.0, that they have replaced the ministry for women, replaced it, with the one that promotes virtue and prosecutes
vice. That's what's happened here. And we spoke to -- and you'll remember because her interview was on your show just I think yesterday.
Mahbouba Seraj, one of the most respected women's rights activist here in the country has found -- has a foundation here, whose name is actually
written on the wall in paint outside that -- outside what was the women's affairs ministry. We asked her what she thought, and she said exactly that.
This is why we have been saying, she said, the Taliban haven't changed. Adding to that, the fact that schools start tomorrow. Boys are going back,
but not girls. Adding to that, that the government today, the Taliban government announced that women in government jobs in level one, level two,
level three, need to either quit or be fired. Why? Because their positions need to be given up to men. That is what's happening here, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Never ever believe what people say, always believe what people do. And in this case, we're starting to get plenty of evidence that
what they're saying has not come to pass. Thanks very much, our Nic Robertson live in Kabul.
Still to come tonight, fallout from the U.S. security pact with Australia. One American ally is so upset with Washington it has cancelled an event to
mark their friendship. We'll be right back.
GORANI: China's President appears to have condemned the new security pact between the U.S., Britain and Australia. Unsurprisingly, it has to be said.
At a regional summit, Xi Jinping said external forces should not be allowed to meddle with internal affairs. He didn't mention the security pact
directly. His comments seemed to criticize the west's involvement in the Indo-Pacific generally. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
XI JINPING, PRESIDENT, CHINA (through translator): We must never allow any external interference in the domestic affairs of countries in our region
under whatever pretext. In short, we should keep the future of our countries' development and progress firmly in our own hands.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, France has been a lot more explicit about its displeasure. It's been speaking out against this new deal. It's so upset, in fact, with
its American allies that its embassy in Washington is cancelling or is really down-sizing several events this week. Notably, it called off a
reception to commemorate France's help in the American revolution.
CNN's Melissa Bell is following those developments, and she joins us from Paris. And I spoke to the French ambassador to the U.S. yesterday. He was
angry, many of the officials have expressed their anger, including the Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, and the ambassador told me they
weren't even made aware of this deal until they read about it in the newspaper that very morning. What is France -- so that -- all that being
said, what is France planning on doing about it?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think this was a blow to France in terms of the loss, of course, financially of the submarine's deal. It was a
blow because as the foreign minister and defense minister pointed out, it was against the spirit and the law of the deal they felt they had with
Australia. But much more profoundly than that, and I think you're right. The downgrading of the celebrations and this extraordinary week meant to
mark the 240th anniversary of that crucial battle by the French Navy in the Chesapeake Bay that would lead to Yorktown and ultimately American
independence has been -- has been seen here in France as an interesting week to receive such a blow.
It is, as you say, Hala, the fact that there was no warning about this, I think that have flustered feathers not just here in France, but Europe
wide. Remember that on Wednesday, the very day that we saw, that we heard on live TV about this deal between the United States, United Kingdom and
Australia, Ursula von der Leyen had been making her state of the union address, Hala, it was all about the fact that Europe, now united, wanted to
be a major player on the world stage. It was all about China. It was all about its own approach.
And suddenly to have that torpedoed the very same day by an announcement that no one had seen coming and that will have profound effects on Europe's
own attitudes towards China and the Indo-Pacific region. More generally, was embarrassing to say the least. So, I think there's a great deal of
upset here in Europe and perhaps confirmation also Hala, of something they've started to fear around the American withdrawal from Afghanistan,
about which Europeans had also said they had too little consultation. That after Donald Trump, they had imagined finding in Joe Biden someone who may
not always be necessarily on their side or their partner, but at least be in there in a spirit of multilateral conversation and keeping allies
informed. And I think that's been one of the bigger shocks for France, but for Europe as well.
GORANI: Shocks in the sense that these unilateral decisions were tweeted out at 3:00 in the morning by Donald Trump. Now they have a nicer veneer to
them, there are official declarations and statements. But the spirit in which this was done really angered the French because even Le Drian; the
Foreign Minister essentially said this is the type of thing that we would have expected from Trump, but not from a statesman like Joe Biden.
BELL: Exactly. Those are pretty harsh words coming from France's top diplomat, Hala. And of course, this at a time when Europeans were becoming
increasingly convinced and Emmanuel Macron perhaps the first, that it was time for Europe to achieve more strategic independence. There had long been
this feeling throughout the Trump years that it was time for Europe to unite, to present its own strategic front. And in the face of this snub --
and I don't think it can be described as anything else in terms of the lack of communication that preceded its announcement. I think it is a
reinforcement within Europe not only that its own strategy towards China, which had differed from the start to the United States.
They were much from the beginning about the fact that they wanted to play a sort of buffer, they were hoping to cooperate with China where they could,
and to contain where they needed to. It was at the heart of Yves Le Drian speech on Wednesday as well. I think the fact that they realized that they
can no longer have that conversation with their oldest and what they had considered their staunchest ally reminds Europe not just about the need for
soft power that they had already believed with Europe --
GORANI: Yes --
BELL: But perhaps about the need for some of that harder power so clearly displayed in this agreement between the United Kingdom, the United States
and Australia, and that it too now needs to look at its own strategic independence and how Europe can come together to try and present strategic
united front. Of course, the trouble for Europe is that there are those countries like France that have been arguing for a long time that they need
greater coordinated defense and it will be the subject of a summit next year.
The trouble is here in Europe, there are a number of countries, Hala, that simply will have difficulty with the idea of getting boots on the ground in
the name of Europe rather than of their own countries, and those neutral countries who aren't interested in going -- getting involved in foreign
interventions at all. So, there's that division here in Europe, but I think what we've seen in these last few days is going to be a renewed push to try
and convince Europeans that really, there is no choice now, but to think about their strategic future independently of the United States.
GORANI: It's always going to be an uphill battle to get there though, as we've seen in the past. Melissa Bell, thanks very much. Enjoy your Parisian
evening on this Friday. Lebanon's prime minister says he's seeking quick fixes to the economy, which has been in a free-fall since 2019. The
government just increased fuel prices by 37 percent. It's part of an effort to decrease subsidies and attract international aid. The Prime Minister
Najib Mikati says his government is also lifting subsidies because the country is nearly out of cash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NAJIB MIKATI, PRIME MINISTER, LEBANON: Last -- in the last few months, a year and more, we spent to subsidies, the commodities around over 10
billion. It's much over 10 billion. We discovered just 26 percent of the subsidy, it is used by Lebanese end-user. And 75 -- 74 percent, they were
misused by traitors, by corrupted people. And that's what we also are going to investigate where this money was -- where this money --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Lebanon's government is only a week old. The challenges that the prime minister faces are immense, staggering poverty, a healthcare system
really on the brink of collapse. There are shortages of everything, fuel, electricity, medicine, many other things.
Nada Bashir tells us just how bad it's gotten.
NADA BASHIR, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): After more than a year of political gridlock, Lebanon finally has a new government. Now, his third time in the
role of prime minister, Najib Mikati says he hopes his newly brokered cabinet will bring an end to the country's crippling financial crisis.
MIKATI (through translator): I will not spare a moment without contacting all the international community so we can provide the basic needs of life.
BASHIR: It's these basic needs that have proven near impossible to fulfill over the last two years, particularly for the country's healthcare sector.
Power outages, lack of fuel for generators and drug shortages have become a daily fixture.
FIRASS ABIAD, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RAFIK HARIRI UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL (through translator): If we run out of diesel, it will be a catastrophe for
the entire country, not just the hospital, because if there's not petrol, there's no electricity.
BASHIR: It's a risk that is already becoming reality for some parts of the country. NGO doctors without borders says a 44-hour power cut over three
days forced one of its hospitals to reduce surgical operations by 50 percent. And other hospitals have been left unable to offer non-emergency
services, including psychiatric care. Here at the Embrace Mental Health Center in Beirut, the struggle to keep services running is all too
familiar. Since the devastating port blast of August 2020, the center has seen a rise in the number of patients seeking help both in person and via
the organization's suicide prevention hotline.
But limited power and fuel for generators have forced Embrace to reduce operating hours and even hold therapy sessions in the dark.
HIBA DANDACHLI, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, EMBRACE: We don't have electricity, we don't have clean water, we don't have gas. We lack the
basic social and economic determinants that allow you even to thrive in any aspect of your life. And that's where I tell you, our job has become
BASHIR: With more than 80 percent of Lebanon's population now living in multi-dimensional poverty, many patients struggle to cover the cost of
medication. But with drug supplies running dangerously low, finding the medication needed is a struggle in itself.
PIA ZEINOUN, DIRECTOR, EMBRACE: We have people coming in where we tell them, you know, there's only two boxes of medication in the pharmacy --
hey, maybe, taper off your meds a little bit so they can last you because we don't know when the next box is coming in. When you reach a stage where
our medical doctors are telling the patient to save the medication, and they know they're not given the optimal dose because of that or they know
that we're prescribing a different medication because the other one is not available, this is like trauma surgery in a war zone where you just get
whatever you can, patch the person up and hope they make it.
BASHIR: Hope here in Lebanon is hard to come by, and skepticism remains high as both the Lebanese people and the international community wait to
see whether Mikati's new administration will undertake the reform so desperately needed to pull the country and its healthcare sector from the
brink of collapse. Nada Bashir, CNN, Beirut.
GORANI: Still to come tonight, eight months after insurrectionists strike to violently overturn the election, the U.S. Capitol is a fortress. There's
another planned demonstration tomorrow, we'll preview it after the break.
GORANI: Law enforcement officials trying to prevent another deadly attack on American democracy are on high alert. They are bracing for potential
violence and preparing for a worst-case scenario ahead of a right-wing rally set to take place on Capitol Hill tomorrow. And you remember these
horrific scenes, the "Justice for J6" demonstration, that's the one that's going to be held tomorrow, is being held in support of these
insurrectionists who stormed Capitol Hill in January. CNN's Shimon Prokupecz joins me now live with more. So I imagine that this time round,
law enforcement is taking no chances. Right? I mean, how are they preparing for this?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: No. No, absolutely no chances. The intelligence was there, right? They'll tell you there was all
this chatter. It was all on the internet. And people said they were going to do things and stormed the Capitol. And kind of no one believed them. And
the police chief today who held a press conference a short time ago said we kind of were seeing the same intelligence. So, we're going to take it
And you can see that, Hala, as you look out here, the fencing, right? There's fencing all around the Capitol. So this is just one side of the
Capitol. But it stretches all around the building for several, several blocks all the way to the other side, really, which won't give -- it's
supposed to prevent many people from having access to the grounds. They're ready, the police said, they're ready because they don't know what to
expect. They expect about 700 people here.
I want to turn around here. I'll actually show you where the rally is going to take place. So that is where the people who are running this rally say
this is where they're going to gather. This is the permitted area and they're going to gather here, but just think about how close this is to the
Capitol. When you look behind our shot here, you can see, you can see how close it is and why officials are so concerned. They're picking up
intelligence that says these guys want to storm the Capitol again.
One of the other things that I think is important to point out and what police are saying is that their other concern is that there's going to be
counter-protests. And they're concerned that there's going to be clashes between these groups. And that's why they brought in other police officers
from outside jurisdictions all over Washington, DC, the Washington DC police saying they're going to have all hands on deck. So everyone's ready,
the National Guard will be here.
But what's really interesting is that all this information that they have been gathering, the police have been gathering, this intelligence, it's all
very similar to what they saw in the days and weeks leading up to January 6, and that's why they're not taking any chances. And they say they're
going to be ready.
GORANI: I imagine though the crowds are expected to be smaller. I mean, there were, you know, hundreds, thousands potentially even people on
January. When you mentioned the counter protesters, that could be -- those could be potential flashpoints, right? Because it's going to be really hard
for law enforcement to separate everyone out, tease out who's the protester, who's the counter protester.
PROKUPECZ: Right, and you can't -- just because there are counter protesters, you can't deny them access to the area. They can't. They won't
know because it doesn't take much.
Their concern is not so much the large groups that may do something or this specific group, their concern is that there may be one individual, someone
who may come in here that just wants to start trouble and will use this event as a way to start trouble.
Remember on January 6, they had a very significant scare here. Someone placed pipe bombs outside the Democratic Club, and then also the Republican
Club, right? So they are thinking about that. They are thinking about other places and other locations where someone could try to start up some
trouble, cause some harm. So that's the thing for them. That's why they're always saying they are worried about these outside groups, people coming in
who -- it doesn't take much, right? It could just take one or two person or just someone in the crowd starting trouble, and then it gets everyone riled
up. And then the rest of the group starts acting.
They think in terms of the grounds here on the Capitol, they think they have that protected. The concern is outside because there are other events
going on in Washington DC on Saturday as well.
PROKUPECZ: All right. We'll follow it on CNN, Shimon, thanks so much. The Speaker of the House of Commons says they're going to make sure a Capitol
Hill type riot doesn't happen anywhere on British soil. Lindsay Hoyle is hosting his counterparts around the world, including U.S. House Speaker
Nancy Pelosi, for a summit to discuss how to protect democratic institutions. CNN's Bianca Nobilo sat down with the speaker ahead of that
meeting, and spoke to him about some of his biggest concerns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY HOYLE, HOUSE OF COMMONS SPEAKER: The fact is that we're -- is the threat, isn't it? It's the threat to people that really puts people off. We
saw the attack on parliament. I never, ever want to live through that again. I was sat in the chair that day to be tapped on the shoulder and
said there's a policeman dying on the cobbles of Parliament is something I never want to go through again.
And we've seen that in different parts around the world. That does put people off. Social media puts people off. Social media is wonderful, but
it's also very dangerous. Women MPs get the worst of it. The worst brunt of that goes to female ethnic MPs as well, the fact that they feel real
threats and real threats of violence against them, that's not acceptable. When an MP says to meet Lindsay, I don't think I'm going to stand again, I
don't feel safe, my family must come first. I know we've got to do more. Can't protect against everything, but you've certainly got to try and
ensure that we've done everything physically possible.
We've seen the attack in Canada, we've seen the attack on Capitol Hill, mob rule, you know, so rather than being a lone terrorist, that was about mob
rule, taking over, trying to smash democracy, because these people don't believe in our values. They don't believe in democracy. You know, the fact
is that if we haven't got democracy, what have we got? Dictatorship? That is never the answer. So the ballot box has got to be the answer to the
future. So it's so vital that we do protect that, that freedom of speech matters, the freedoms going forward.
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you think there's also a systemic problem, because when you were elected speaker, you talked about sort of
polishing the tarnish off the house and wanting to restore the reputation in some ways, and I think we both know, everybody knows that there are
issues with distrust of politicians. Everybody sort of laments that their time is the worst, but it does seem to be particularly bad right now.
HOYLE: You're right, it's the public mistresses of politicians, it's about rebuilding that trust. So my view was that, how do we take away the
nastiness and the anger that was in the chamber during Brexit And it was bad. It really was bad. So it's about -- of course we could have debate, of
course we're going to have division of views. That's what politics is all about. But it's how you express them. And it's not just about tolerance.
It's about respecting other people's views and values. I don't want them all to agree with each other, that will be pretty boring for me as well.
So, it's about having excitement in the chamber. But it's about controlling that excitement as well.
NOBILO: One of the other issues that the house has had is accusations of lying in the chamber. Now we know in Parliament, you're not allowed to do
that. But there has been a petition I think launched last month last time I checked with over 130,000 signatures, to make lying in the chamber a
criminal offense. And I think this speaks to some of the distrust that the public have in politicians, when so many people have accused the Prime
Minister of lying as well. What do you do? Because tone is set from the top.
HOYLE: Well, the problem is I've not got the power, because they want me to be an impartial speaker. So it's a political judgment says that a lie is
that fact. So then the speaker gets drawn in to make a political decision, which the host doesn't want me to do.
NOBILO: Is it a political decision, though? If it's a matter of fact?
HOYLE: Well, who says it's a matter of fact at that moment? Afterwards, a royal blow through it. You know, we've seen it on both sides where what we
might say, inadvertently, have said made a mistake in the comments. And I think that's the real problem. And if they want a political speaker, say
so. Make me a political speaker, because in a sentence, well, the speakers around the world are political. You know, speaker Pelosi is very political,
but haven't got the same power.
But that's for the hostess side not for me to decide. Not saying I refuse it. In fact, it's very tempting to be able to give me that political power
as well. But what I promised to be was impartial, was be fair to both sides, and it's my impartiality that I have to protect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, a quick note about the city Nancy Pelosi will be visiting, it is pretty small. You've probably not heard of it if you don't live in this
country. In fact, you may not have heard of it if even if you do live in this country. It is in the northwest of England. It's known for its markets
that date back to the 1400s and for its fruit-filled cakes, and hopefully Nancy Pelosi will have time to try pastry while in Chorley. I don't know.
Can we get some sent to us from Chorley? Is one of our reporters going there? I want to try him. Still to come tonight, a lot more. We'll be right
back on CNN with the rest of the program.
GORANI: U.S. President Joe Biden says he's taking emergency steps to deal with a conflict marked by atrocities. He signed an executive order allowing
sanctions against the warring parties in Ethiopia. Nima Elbagir recently uncovered evidence of killings there, that they're the hallmarks of
genocide. Our reporting pressure on countries around the world to act.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The White House has issued an executive order broadening the sanctions available to it and
bringing to an end or working to bring to an end the crisis in Ethiopia's Tigray region. Now, this may sound like more of the same telegraphing of
concern that has been much criticized by human rights activists, and Tigrayan advocates when it comes to the U.S.' handling of the crisis in
But actually what this does for the first time is place a timeframe around the resolution of the crisis in Tigray. U.S. officials and lawmakers tell
us that this is a matter of weeks, that if resolution is not seen, or at least not -- at least the process of resolution begun, then they are
looking to implement targeted sanctions against specific individuals across all the parties to the conflict. So that's the Ethiopian government, the
Amhara regional forces, the Tigrayan People's Liberation Front, and members of the Tigrayan fighters on the ground and the Eritrean forces.
This comes, we're told by congressional contacts, after our recent reporting. Congressional contacts tell us that our recent investigation
triggered urgency in Congress among lawmakers, and that, in turn, caused them to ratchet the pressure on the administration about our investigation.
And I must warn viewers that this is difficult to watch. But it's so important. These graphic images we're showing you evidence of torture,
execution, and detention on a mass scale in the town of Humera.
It was evidence that pointed to we found a methodical campaign which bore all the hallmarks of genocide, we were also able to cross-reference witness
testimony and the analysis of satellite imagery to pinpoint at least seven locations here within Humera. That -- where the site of mass detention, and
two outside of Humera. We are now hearing from the Ethiopian government their response to this ruling, to this executive order on the part of the
Biden administration and they are rejecting it.
Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed's office issued this open letter, saying "We have seen the consequences and aftermaths of hurried and rash decisions made by
various U.S. administrations." They go on to say "It is essential to point out that Ethiopia will not succumb to the consequences of pressure
engineered by disgruntled individuals." What does that actually mean on the ground? Well, given that the Tigray region has run out of humanitarian
resources humanitarian aid in situ for humanitarian agencies to use currently, the humanitarian actors on the ground are reliant on aid,
trucked into Tigray.
The U.N. have told us that within the last six weeks, less than five days worth of aid, trucks carrying less than five days' worth of aid has been
allowed into the region. And given the hundreds of thousands of people within Tigray are currently in famine-like conditions, as the U.N.
describes it. Any delay, any refusal or rebuttal on the part of Ethiopian - - of the Ethiopian government and its allies who control the access of aid into the Tigray region will have dire consequences for the people on the
ground in the region.
The hope is that the Ethiopian government finds a way to cooperate with the international community and with the United States, at the very least on
this humanitarian access aspect of the executive order. That's what we're hearing from so many humanitarian agencies and actors on the ground. Nima
Elbagir CNN London.
GORANI: Haiti's Prime Minister has sacked another top official, this time the Justice Minister, as he dismisses suggestions that he may have links to
the assassination of President Jovenel Moise. Here you see Prime Minister Ariel Henry, with the Justice Minister that he fired, Rockefeller Vincent
back to Chief Prosecutor who wanted to charge Mr. Henry in connection with the murder and that prosecutor was sacked earlier this week. Matt Rivers is
going to sort this all out for us because we have a prime minister who was accused of being involved. He basically fired the people who wanted to get
rid of for being involved in the assassination, where do things stand now?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: will try my best to sort this out, Hala, but I'm not sure that anyone can actually sort this out. That is how
confusing all of this is. And really, you know, it's also tragic that more than two months after the president of Haiti was assassinated, this is what
we're talking about and not an investigation that has led to concrete facts to a mastermind to figuring out who exactly was behind that attack. This
latest development, as you said, the Prime Minister of Haiti, essentially the de facto leader of that country right now absent president, is Ariel
Henry. He sacks this justice minister, in part because the justice minister had supported a former prosecutor that wanted to bring charges against
Ariel Henry in connection to that assassination.
We should say we don't know what those charges are. They were never specified. Also, it wasn't possible for that prosecutor himself to bring
the charges. He needed a judge to actually do that. But clearly this was enough that Henry was not happy about it. He removed this prosecutor in
what appears to be a pretty, pretty blatant attempt at some sort of judicial interference. I don't know what else you could call it, and then
he installs a new justice minister because the last justice minister supported that prosecutor who wanted to bring charges against him.
There's also a new prosecutor that's in place now. Where does it go from here? This is what we don't know. Ariel Henry has said he has nothing to do
with that. We don't know what he would have been charged with had that actually gone forward. And the investigation has now stalled just like it
was just a few days ago. You know, we're talking two months plus after this investigation. The investigation has no momentum, roughly 40 suspects have
been detained, but no mastermind no financial planner, no motive behind all this has been discovered at this point.
And amidst all of this, instead of an investigation, you have political squabbles, basically, between Ariel Henry on one side, other people who
oppose him on the other, you know, it's a political infighting, instead of an investigation and at the same time, you know, you need leadership now in
Haiti more than ever after this earthquake that happened where hundreds of thousands of people in that country remain in dire need of assistance,
Hala, and yet what we're talking about is this political infighting, you know, after this investigation continues to prove, or continues to not
prove exactly what happened here.
GORANI: And as you mentioned, it is a tragedy for the people of Haiti, especially after that horrible earthquake and all of that. Thank you, Matt
Rivers. Still to come, a massive art project envelops one of Paris's most iconic landmarks. Do you like it or do not like it? We'll let you judge for
yourself after the break.
GORANI: Well, until he passed away last year, the artist Christo was obsessed with wrapping spectacular -- on a spectacular scale, bridges,
islands, buildings, you name it. Now a project he dreamed up 60 years ago has become a reality. Saskya Vandoorne reports from Paris.
SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It took 90 climbers and 25,000 square meters of silvery blue fabric to transform Paris's most famous wall
Memorial into a new work of art.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTO, BULGARIAN ARTIST: That cross of the four arches is incredible. You have a nonstop wind and you cannot believe it how the fabric above you will
be like a moving, like a living person because all that will be also wrapped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANDOORNE: That was the vision of the late Bulgarian artist Christo as he spoke to CNN in 2020, one of his last interviews.
Conceived 60 years ago when he was a young man in Paris, the project's success is rooted even further in the past. Paris's archives were the key
to its construction. Engineers poured over drawings of the 50 meter high monument studying where they could drill into the 19th century structure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE BURGHARTZ, ENGINEER, SCHLAICH BERGERMANN: Some of the statues, they have wings, they have swords, they have trumpets, so we built these cages
around the statues to protect them from the fabric, from the climbers, from the construction side work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANDOORNE: Using textiles to transform historic monuments and landmarks is what made Christo and his late wife, Jeanne-Claude, famous. Small islands
of Miami covered in tutus of flamingo pink, the 16th century Pont Neuf draped in golden sandstone. And Berlin's Reichstag covered in silvery gray.
The bill for wrapping the art, more than $16 million funded through the sale of Christo's art. The installation will open Saturday, but many
visitors and Parisians have already formed an opinion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is engineering, there is art. There is poetics even, and this kind of connects to everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not really the kind of art that I like, but it's only for three weeks, so I'm OK with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I didn't expect is that it is at the same time so monumental and so sensual.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANDOORNE: The recyclable fabric is designed to evolve with the weather, the red rope, a poetic interpretation of the French flag. Years of planning
and 12 weeks around the clock work have gone into making a sketch come to life.
Wolfgang Volz who worked with the couple for 50 years is part of a team overseeing the project, the first time he has done so without them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLFGANG VOLZ, PHOTOGRAPHER: I miss them now. But I will miss them tremendously in that fantastic moment. When you see it, it's done. You look
at it and you say it's not bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANDOORNE: Like all of Christo's artworks, it will be short-lived, just 16 days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTO: You cannot own it, you cannot buy it. It will be gone. I will never see it again. And that is also the magnetic force of our projects.
They're not something staying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VANDOORNE: The ephemeral nature of Christo's work, all the more poignant for being brought to life after his death. Saskya Vandoorne CNN, Paris.
GORANI: Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. A lot more ahead on CNN.