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Hala Gorani Tonight

Uyghur Man Reveals Horrific Torture In Detention Camp; Taiwan President Warns About China; California Governor Declares State Of Emergency After Major Oil Spill; New James Bond Film Hauls In $121 Million In Opening Weekend. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 05, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN in Atlanta, I'm Lynda Kinkade in for Hala Gorani, good to have you with us.

Tonight, they harm children, stoke division and weaken our democracy. Major allegations leveled against Facebook as a former employee turned

whistleblower testifies in Washington.

The new report sheds light on shocking levels of sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, we're talking hundreds of thousands of children in France

alone. We're going to go live to Paris for reaction. And for the first time, CNN has interviewed a former member of China's security forces.

He claims he was routinely ordered to torture Uyghur detainees. Our exclusive report is ahead. Dramatic and damning testimony on Capitol Hill

today about the practices and culture at the world's largest social media company. Former Facebook product manager-turned whistleblower Frances

Haugen told a Senate subcommittee that Facebook knowingly prioritizes profits over the safety of its users.

She described how the company's mechanisms encourage negative content and engagement, adding that it does harm to users including teenagers, and that

Facebook hides its practices from the public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: Facebook wants you to believe that the problems we're talking about are unsolvable. They want you to believe

in false choices. They want you to believe that you must choose between a Facebook full of divisive and extreme content or losing one of the most

important values our country was founded upon, free speech.

That you must choose between public oversight of Facebook's choices and your personal privacy. That, to be able to share fun photos of your kids

with old friends, you must also be inundated with anger-driven virality. They want you to believe that this is just part of the deal. I am here

today to tell you that's not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well, Haugen described how Facebook's opaque operations are enabling it to hide its problems, and that's led to a kind of, quote,

"moral bankruptcy". She said Congress should step in to help the company solve them.

Well, today's hearing comes a day after Facebook and Instagram were offline for more than five hours. But Haugen's testimony is likely to have much

more extensive repercussions. Senior media reporter Oliver Darcy is analyzing today's Senate hearing and joins us now live from New York. Good

to have you with us.

So, a short time ago we heard the whistleblower, Frances Haugen described as a 21st century American hero for standing up to this tech giant, for

detailing how this platform stokes division, harms young people and weakens democracy. What were the key takeaways for you?

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, first, she introduced herself to the public and she explained why she has gone public with these

documents, these internal documents. She said that it's because, quote, "every human being deserves the dignity of the truth." And in her words,

the truth is that Facebook is profiting and putting its profits off -- ahead of the wellbeing of society.

She said that Facebook profits off of our divisions, off of our political divisions and off of misinformation. In fact, she said "they profit right

now with our safety." But she described a company that is simply overwhelmed and cannot really control this monster that has been built.

She said for instance, that the artificial intelligence systems that enforce Facebook's policies only catch, quote, a very tiny minority of

violations committed on the platform every day, and she laid this all at Mark Zuckerberg's feet. Obviously, he is the CEO and founder of Facebook.

And she basically said that he is responsible for what he has unleashed on society.

Now, another interesting thing is not necessarily what she said, but how focused lawmakers were in this meeting. I watched a number of big tech

hearings in the past, and often they are derailed by Republican lawmakers who politically grandstand and seek to make claims about bias and

censorship and all of that.

That wasn't the case today. This was a very focused hearing on a bipartisan basis, and it stuck to the issues. And lawmakers agreed that Facebook is

out of control and something really needs to be done to rein it in.

KINKADE: And Oliver, we also heard a great deal today about the damage these platforms like Facebook and Instagram can have on young people,

specifically young females, teenagers, its impact on body image, eating disorders, bullying.

[14:05:00]

I just want to play a comment from the father of Molly Russell; a 14-year- old girl who took her own life after spending hours on Instagram and other social media. And her father, Ian Russell says he has no doubt that they

played a role in his daughter's death. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IAN RUSSELL, DAUGHTER COMMITTED SUICIDE: But what we discovered after her death was that she had been seeing material on various platforms, but

Instagram was one of them, that promoted -- well, just being miserable. First of all, she would have seen material that made her feel miserable and

hopeless and encouraged that sort of depression and anxiety.

And then, even more worryingly, she saw material that suggested suicide might be the only way out, which, of course, isn't true. And there's always

help available. But in this online world, she was confronted with really sinister, harmful material that made her think otherwise.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Oliver, what we heard from the whistleblower today was that Facebook's own research, its own data actually shows that it's harmful to

teenage girls.

DARCY: Yes, and it's really difficult on tragic-hearing accounts like that, of teenagers who have been bullied on this platform, and the whistleblower

is coming forward and she's saying that Facebook knows that its product, Instagram, causes depression, it harms the mental wellbeing of teenage

girls, and that they have not disclosed this to the public.

But she is and she's disclosed it via its own documents. So, she has taken Facebook's own research and she leaked it to the "Wall Street Journal", and

now she's talking about it openly on "60 Minutes" and in this hearing.

So, you know, Facebook is going to have a really difficult time I think combating what she is saying because she is citing Facebook's own research

to make her points.

KINKADE: And she, of course, said the buck stops essentially with the CEO, with the founder, Mark Zuckerberg and something has to be done about that.

I just want to play a sound bite from Frances Haugen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAUGEN: Mark has built an organization that is very metrics driven, it is intended to be flat. There is no unilateral responsibility. The metrics

make the decision. Unfortunately, that itself is a decision. And in the end, if he is the CEO and the chairman of Facebook, he is responsible for

those decisions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The buck stops with him?

HAUGEN: The buck stops with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: On the day that she disclosed that she was the whistleblower, that she was responsible for the leak of this data from Facebook, Mark

Zuckerberg was out posting videos sailing with his wife, Priscilla. Is he taking this seriously and what other response have we seen from Facebook

today?

DARCY: Yes, Mark Zuckerberg has not responded at all to these revelations from the Facebook whistleblower. He's been posting, like you said, videos

sailing and all sorts of other things, but he is not responding to this directly.

That said, Facebook is mounting an aggressive defense on his behalf, and they are coming out today and really aiming to discredit this

whistleblower, saying she is not someone who was in meetings with C-suite executives and didn't have firsthand knowledge on a lot of the things she

was talking about. But the ironic thing is that Facebook and the whistleblower agree on one thing, and that is that Congress needs to step

in and provide some government regulation.

Facebook's out with a statement just a few moments ago, saying that they are seeking -- they want Congress to act to give it some guidelines. I

think that then in that case, the Facebook can point to Congress and say they're the ones that implement these regulations, and it's -- the heat is

not on them perhaps as much. So were agreement from the whistleblower and Facebook there.

KINKADE: Yes, this is a story that we will continue to follow no doubt as we see what sort of oversight there will be of the way Facebook operates.

Oliver Darcy, good to have you with us from New York. Thank you.

DARCY: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, the culture of silence with complete, even cruel indifference. That's how an explosive new report is describing the response

by the French Catholic Church to seven decades of sexual abuse. The results of the investigation found more than 200,000 minors were sexually exploited

by French Catholic clergy since 1950. The number jumps to 330,000 when you add non-clergy members. And the head of the commission that issued the

report says that abuse is still happening.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN-MARC SAUVE, CHAIR OF INQUIRY INTO FRENCH CATHOLIC ABUSE (through translator): These numbers of 216,000 and 330,000 are far more than

concerning. They're appalling and must absolutely not remain unanswered. They require a very strong action.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KINKADE: Well, the report reveals the scale of abuse in France is far more severe than previously thought. CNN's Jim Bittermann is following the story

and joins us now from Paris.

[14:10:00]

So, Jim, not only did the report find that it's far more pervasive, far more systematic than previously thought, it also found that the church

hierarchy repeatedly silenced the victims.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's one of the things I think, Lynda, that most people were -- at least seemed to be the

most appalled about, was the overall indifference of the church hierarchy for something that went on for years and may still be going on today

according to the commission's report. So, it is really something that they haven't acted sooner on this.

Probably, the most dramatic moment in this press conference came this morning from Francois Devaux, who is the head of the victims' association,

and in a very firm way he said, spacing out his words very carefully, he said, "you must pay for these crimes." Spacing out each word.

And then he said it will be in the billions. And so, it was probably a news conference that put into absolute face-to-face relationship not only the

victims' association, but also the heads of the Catholic Church in France. Here's a bit more of what Devaux had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCOIS DEVAUX, FOUNDER, PAROLE LIBEREE (through translator): What you must understand is that you are a disgrace to humanity. You have trodden

all over the natural obligation to defend the right and dignity of these people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: So Devaux said that, and then the head of the Catholic Bishops Association responded with this. He said, "for those victims of such acts,

I express my shame, my dread and my determination to act with them." Now, that may not be enough because the victims says Devaux said, are looking

for perhaps billions in compensation, something that may be a little difficult for the Catholic Church in France to come up with because it is

not in that great financial shape.

But nonetheless, after this testimony today, I think the overwhelming opinion is that they've got to do something, and this is probably -- this

news conference was probably the start of that.

They're also going to send out a message to the church, to church believers on Sunday. They're going to send out a message to be read in all pulpits

around France, but it's going to be a real blow to the Catholic Church moving forward, Lynda.

KINKADE: Yes, absolutely. Jim Bittermann for us in Paris. We are going to stay on this story. Thanks so much, Jim. Well, in response to that report,

Pope Francis expressed great sorrow for the sexual abuse victims following that release and he praised them for their courage in coming forward. I

want to introduce senior Vatican analyst John Allen for more on all of this.

He joins us now live from Rome. John, so we heard Pope Francis expressing sorrow and sadness for the victims in a statement from the Vatican. What do

you make of his reaction so far and what more can we expect to hear from the pope?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, Lynda, first of all, I think it is striking that we got a reaction as quickly as we did. In the past,

when these national major national level of reports on clerical sexual abuse were issued, whether we're talking about the John Jay report in the

United States in the early 2000s, the Ryan reporting in Ireland in 2009, more recently, the report in Germany, the Vatican has not reacted

immediately, taking the position that this is something for the local bishops to handle.

But I think what they've learned on the back of all of that and the backlash they got was that anything that smacks of indifference or delay is

not going to go down well. So, I think the first point is simply that the pope spoke.

Secondly, I thought it was striking that at the end of his brief statement, that he said that he was praying both for justice and for healing. Now, use

of the word "justice" in that context is a reference to criminal prosecution and also civil lawsuits. In the past, there has been heavy

criticism of the church for not cooperating with those inquiries. I think this was Francis' way of saying we need to turn over a new leaf.

KINKADE: John, you mentioned some of the other cases that we've seen around the world, and I just want to go through some of those for our viewers

because this investigation in France certainly follows other reports from other countries.

If you look at Australia, the 2017 report found that 7 percent of Australian priests were accused of abusing children between 1950 to 2015.

And then if you look, of course, in Germany, a 2018 report found that the German Catholic Church admitted to at least 3,677 cases of child sex abuse

by clergy between 1946 and 2014.

And then, of course, England and Wales, a 2020 report found between 1970 and 2015, the church received over 900 complaints involving more than 3,000

cases of child sex abuse. But I have to ask you, John, despite the numbers, despite the reports, we've seen over the last few years, very few people

high up in the church hierarchy have really faced repercussions, right?

[14:15:00]

ALLEN: Well, I mean, if you mean criminal prosecutions, no. The only -- at the most senior level, cardinal, of course, Theodore McCarrick; former

cardinal, former priest in the United States is currently undergoing criminal prosecutions, but that's for abuse he committed, he allegedly

committed himself, not for the cover-up of it all. On the other hand, look, I think one thing that should not get lost in all of this, is that this new

reporting in France, is not the result of an external governmental commission or some other external authority.

This was actually commissioned by the French bishops, and so these revelations, as ugly and staggering as they are, is something that the

church in France has decided to bring upon itself as, you know, under the - - under the heading of the only way out is through. And that's not something that a national bishops conference would have done up until very

recently, and that I suppose is some measure of some kind of progress, Lynda.

KINKADE: OK, John Allen for us, always good to get your analysis. Thanks for joining us. And still to come tonight, the faces of courage in

Afghanistan. Female protesters defy the Taliban to demand their rights as the future looks even more bleak for women and girls. And later, a former

Chinese police officer admits he routinely arrested and tortured Uyghur detainees. We'll have that CNN exclusive when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KINKADE: Welcome back. Amnesty International says the Taliban have carried out cold-blooded executions that could amount to war crimes. It says

Taliban forces killed 13 ethnic Hazaras soon after taking the Daykundi Province back in August. Amnesty says its investigation found 11 were

former members of the Afghan security forces. Nine of them were killed after they had surrendered. Two other victims were civilians including a

17-year-old girl shot when the Taliban fired on a crowd.

Well, the news comes amid growing concerns for the rights of girls and women in Afghanistan. They're slowly been shut out of the public sphere,

but some are refusing to go quietly or go at all.

[14:20:00]

CNN's Clarissa Ward has been traveling around Kabul meeting with courageous women and girls who are defying Taliban rule.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A handful of women stand quietly but defiantly. They're here to protest the

Taliban's de facto ban on girls going to school after fifth grade, a small act of great courage. Taliban fighters start to pour in, their heavily

armed presence a menacing question mark. A new arrival appears unsure of whether to get out of the car. For a moment, it seems the Taliban may have

come to protect the women, but the illusion is quickly shattered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

WARD: Someone from the Taliban has just come in telling everyone to put away their cameras, it's getting a little tense over there. A senior Talib

rips a phone out of one woman's hands, these men shove journalists back. We try to keep filming, but the Taliban don't want the world to see.

(on camera): They're ripping the women's posters. No, put it away. Put it away.

(GUNFIRE)

(voice-over): A machine gun burst sends a clear message, the protest is over. Mau Nadin Nasser Talal(ph) tells us, he is the head of the Taliban's

intelligence services in Kabul, and that the women did not have permission to protest.

(on camera): Why does a small group of women asking for their right to be educated threaten you so much?

"I respect women's rights, I respect human rights", he says. "If I didn't respect women you wouldn't be standing here."

Would you have given them permission if they had asked for one? "Yes, of course", he says, "we would have." But permissions are illusive and

previous protests have met a similar fate. On the streets of Herhana(ph) neighborhood, the consequences of one recent demonstration can still be

seen. At almost every beauty salon, images of women's faces have been defaced as if to erase them from public life completely. The women inside

this salon are too scared to appear on camera.

Hi, (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) how are you? I asked them about the posters outside. Who did it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taliban.

WARD: The Taliban did it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

WARD (voice-over): The Taliban came and drove away the protesters. Then they cursed us and said to remove the posters, they tell me. They told us

to put on a burqa and sit in our homes. But this city is full of brave women like Arzo Khaliqyar who refuse to do that. The activist and mother of

five says she was forced to become a taxi driver when her husband was murdered one year ago, leaving behind his car but little else.

(on camera): Tell me a little bit about how life has changed for you since the Taliban took power?

ARZO KHALIGYAR, TAXI DRIVER (through translator): A lot of changes, too many. I'm sorry -- I'm sorry.

WARD: It's OK. Take your time. It's OK.

KHALIGYAR: Since the Taliban regime has come to power, it has become very difficult.

WARD (voice-over): She offers to take us for a ride. It's another small act of courageous resistance. While the Taliban have not officially banned

women from driving, she says she has received threats, and that the militants hit her car two weeks ago as a warning.

(on camera): I see the men. They stare at you.

KHALIGYAR: Yes.

WARD: They look at you.

(voice-over): It's not long before she picks up a fare. Usually she prefers to take women and stay in areas she's familiar with.

(on camera): Are you aware of the risks that you're taking when you go out every day and do your work?

KHALIGYAR: Yes, and some places where I see Taliban check points, I'm forced to go through a street or change my route, but I accepted this risk

for the sake of my children.

WARD (voice-over): On the other side of town, English teacher Atifa Watanyar is also working hard to give her students a better future. The

past year has not been easy. In May, a horrific bombing targeted the Syed Al-Shahada school where she teaches, taking more than 80 innocent lives.

(on camera): So, you were here when the explosions happened?

ATIFA WATANYAR, TEACHER: Yes, I was in front of the door.

WARD: You were in front of the door, did you see it with your own --

WATANYAR: Yes, I saw a very huge explosion in front of the other door.

[14:25:00]

WARD (voice-over): Incredibly, the school reopened, but weeks later, the Taliban swept to power and announced that for the time being, from 6th

through 12th grade, only boys should come to school. It's just very striking that a bomb was not able to stop these girls coming to school --

WATANYAR: Yes --

WARD (on camera): But now, the Taliban has been able to stop them from coming to school.

WATANYAR: Yes, it's true. Every day I see Taliban in the streets I become - - I'd be afraid.

WARD: But you're still coming here every day, you're still teaching?

WATANYAR: Yes, what should we do? What should we do? It's just the thing that we can do for our children, for our daughters, for our girls.

WARD (voice-over): In the 5th grade classroom, girls are excited to test their English skills.

WATANYAR: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

WARD (on camera): I want you to raise your hand if you love school. Wow! Everybody loves school.

(voice-over): This may well be the last year they get to come and study, yet they are still full of hope for the future.

(on camera): Raise your hand to tell me what you want to be when you grow up? What do you want to be?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctor.

WARD: Doctor, OK. Who else wants to be a doctor? Oh, wow. There are a lot of doctors.

(voice-over): Sixteen-year-old Sanam(ph) used to have dreams, too. She wanted to be a dentist. The explosion at her school left her with serious

injuries, but she was brave enough to go back for the sake, she says, of her close friend who could not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I felt that I must go back and study for the peace of her soul. I must study and build my country so that

I can make her wishes and dreams come true.

WARD (on camera): So, right now you cannot go to school. How does that make you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I feel all of my dreams are crushed and buried, for I won't be allowed to go to school and study. All

of my motivation is completely gone.

WARD: It's OK, take a minute. It's OK. If you want to stop, we can stop. It's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): The Taliban are the people who -- they are the cause of the situation I am in right now. My spirit is gone.

My dreams are buried.

WARD (voice-over): And yet recently, she has started to read her books again and study a little bit every day, just one more small act of great

courage. Clarissa Ward, CNN, Kabul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Our thanks to Clarissa Ward and her team for that report. Well, still to come tonight, allegations of human rights abuses against ethnic

Uyghurs in China. A victim and a torturer share their harrowing stories in this CNN exclusive report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:30:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

KINKADE (voice-over): For nearly three years, CNN has been investigating allegations of gross human rights violations and a modern-day system of

internment camps in Xinjiang's region of China.

China denies accusations from the U.S. State Department that Beijing detained up to 2 million ethnic Uyghurs and members of other minorities in

the internment camps. For the first time CNN has interviewed a former member of the Chinese security forces. He says he was ordered to routinely

arrest and torture Uyghur detainees.

A warning to our viewers: Ivan Watson's report contains graphic descriptions of violence and sexual assault.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABDUWELI AYUP, FORMER DETAINEE IN XINJIANG: They would push the electric stick here. And it's just like burning.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the story of a victim and a self-confessed torturer.

WATSON: Did the police officers use electric batons to shock prisoners?

"JIANG," FORMER CHINESE DETECTIVE (through translator): Yes, everyone uses different methods.

WATSON (voice-over): For years, stories of arbitrary arrests, unspeakable cruelty and mass internment camps have been trickling out of China's

Xinjiang region. Testimonies from people like Abduweli Ayup.

WATSON: When you were detained in 2013, what was your main job?

AYUP: A kindergarten teacher.

WATSON (voice-over): Abduweli says police took him from his Uyghur language kindergarten.

AYUP: Put black hood on my face and they put me in a -- this is their interrogation room and inside iron cage there is a tiger (ph) chair, your

like wrists shackled there and your like feet are also shackled.

WATSON: He said police accused him of espionage, plotting against the Chinese government and the crime of separatism and they demanded a

confession.

AYUP: We just confess. We just admit what you have done. It's good for you.

WATSON: Now, for the very first time, CNN has spoken to a former Chinese police officer who claims his job was to arrest and extract confessions

from ethnic Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

"JIANG" (through translator): Some cops would play the good cops and some would play the bad cops. After we beat them, we'd offer them a cigarette.

WATSON: Did you have to be the bad cop sometimes?

"JIANG" (through translator): Of course.

WATSON (voice-over): The man, who asks to be called Jiang, says he worked more than ten years as a cop before fleeing China after growing

disillusioned with the ruling communist party. I met him in a European country. He wore his police uniform to authenticate his story but does not

want to be identified to protect himself and relatives who are still in China.

WATSON: To prove that he was a Chinese police officer, Jiang is showing me many photos of different police badges, training certificates, even

portraits of his graduating class at police academy, images that we cannot show on television because they would reveal his identity.

WATSON (voice-over): Jiang says he was sent from his home province to work in Xinjiang at least three times during which he was ordered to arrest

hundreds of suspects, all of them ethnic Uyghurs.

WATSON: How were the interrogations being conducted?

[14:35:00]

"JIANG" (through translator): Beat them, kick them, beat them bruised and swollen, knock their heads on the radiator, police would step on the

suspect's face and tell him to confess.

WATSON (voice-over): Jiang says some suspects were as young as 14 and all of the detainees were beaten.

WATSON: Were the suspects all men?

"JIANG" (through translator): Men and women.

WATSON: Did you witness women being beaten?

"JIANG" (through translator): Yes.

WATSON (voice-over): CNN cannot independently confirm Jiang's allegations, nor those of Abduweli, the kindergarten teacher who says in addition to

beatings, he was raped on his first night of detention by Chinese prisoners who followed the orders of prison guards.

AYUP: It's very bad.

WATSON: This was prisoners who sexually assaulted you?

AYUP: Yes, prisoners.

WATSON: More than one?

AYUP: More than one. It's, you know, like, just, first of all, they surrounded me and the police there ordered me to -- to like take off my

underwear and like me -- like this.

WATSON: And bend over.

AYUP: And bend over.

Don't do this. Don't do this, I cried. Please don't do this. And then, like, one of -- I don't know -- just, hold my hand, like this.

WATSON (voice-over): Jiang, the police officer who fled China, describes in graphic detail methods of sexual torture that he says police officers used.

"JIANG" (through translator): If you want people to confess, you use the electric baton. We would tie two electrical wires on the tips and set the

wires on their genitals while the person is tied up. The result is better.

WATSON: He also says police sometimes ordered prisoners to sexually assault detainees.

"JIANG" (through translator): We call it an in prison investigation.

WATSON: The Chinese government insists it is battling violent extremism in Xinjiang. Beijing also denies any human rights abuses whatsoever are being

committed there.

ZHAO LIJIAN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY (through translator): I want to reiterate that the so-called genocide in Xinjiang is nothing but a

rumor backed by ulterior motives and an outright lie.

WATSON: But Jiang, the whistleblower cop, says he got double his normal salary to join tens of thousands of other police sent to Xinjiang as part

of the government crackdown.

WATSON: How many of the people that you arrested in Xinjiang do you think were actually violent extremists?

"JIANG" (through translator): None.

WATSON: None?

"JIANG" (through translator): Xinjiang is not a war zone. And those people are our fellow citizens, not foreign enemies.

WATSON: If you didn't carry out the arrests, what would happen to you?

"JIANG" (through translator): Then I would be arrested as well, because that means I too am a part of a terrorist organization. I'd become their

enemy.

WATSON (voice-over): Abduweli says after 15 months in detention, he confessed to illegal fundraising and was released. He later fled China.

Since then, he said several of his relatives have been detained, including his niece, Mehra (ph).

WATSON: Where was your niece held?

AYUP: The same detention facility I stayed. I don't know how she died. I don't even know. She is the -- she is the first one I hold. She is the

first baby I hold in my life. She is just like my daughter.

WATSON (voice-over): In response to written questions from CNN, the Xinjiang government denies that Mehra (ph) died in detention, saying the

30-year-old woman instead died of organ failure due to severe anemia after being treated in a hospital after suffering from an unknown illness.

The Chinese government did not respond to written questions concerning allegations made by the former police officer.

Abduweli now lives in Norway with his family and publishes children's books written in Uyghur. He insists he can forgive the men who jailed and

tortured him.

AYUP: I don't hate them because all of them victim of that system.

WATSON: If you met one of these prisoners, what would you say to them?

"JIANG" (through translator): I'm scared. I would leave immediately.

WATSON: Why?

"JIANG" (through translator): How do I face these people?

You'd feel guilty, even if you're just a soldier. You're still responsible for what happened. Yes, you need to execute orders, but so many people did

this thing together. We are responsible for this.

WATSON (voice-over): Ivan Watson for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: We can get much more on this exclusive report by Ivan Watson by going to our website, cnn.com.

[14:40:00]

KINKADE: A stark warning from Taiwan's president, Tsai Ing-wen is speaking out, cautioning that if Taiwan ever fell to Chinese control, the

consequences for the region would be catastrophic. Her words come after several days of incursions by China into Taiwan's defense zone. CNN's Will

Ripley has the story from Taiwan's capital, Taipei.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a piece for "Foreign Affairs" magazine, Taiwan's president Tsai Ing-wen portrays this self-governing island of

almost 24 million people as a much bigger issue than just the island itself, or the island versus Beijing, which claims sovereignty over it and

has for over 75 years, a claim that the island's leaders reject here.

She says it is an issue of authoritarianism versus democracy. She says Taiwan is the world's only Chinese speaking democracy, is not only a

flashpoint but at a potential crossroads for the entire world.

You have a neighbor, a behemoth like Mainland China, authoritarian; in many ways decisive and aggressive, with also another superpower in the world,

the United States and kind of clashing, with this island being right at the center of all of that.

She says the outcome of this ideological battle of the wills over Taiwan could actually shape the world's future. It could shape a future, whether

it be a future with more democracies or more authoritarian regimes.

In terms of the military activity we've been seeing near Taiwan for a number of days, there have been large numbers of Chinese warplanes entering

Taiwan's self-declared Air Defense Identification Zone , consecutive days seeing previous days' records broken, records that in some cases had held

for months.

You had 149-plus warplanes entering Taiwan's self-declared Air Defense Identification Zone over the weekend and into Monday if you combine all of

those days. And as a result, you have some analysts saying that this is for military intelligence, this is for training, this is for mainland

propaganda, as Beijing celebrates its national day holiday, more than 70 years since the founding of the People's Republic of China.

If, indeed, it is propaganda, to project force for a mainland audience, you now have the Taiwanese air force, putting together their own propaganda

message, trying to show their own force and their own strength for the domestic audience here in Taiwan. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

RIPLEY (voice-over): This video released on social media by the Taiwanese air force promises to protect Taiwan's airspace in the event of a threat

from the mainland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: You have a lot of questions as to why this is happening now. You have rhetoric being exchanged, accusations of being provocative and

destabilizing, made both by the United States and by China at each other for different reasons.

But you also have naval activity in the region. You have U.S. and U.K. aircraft carriers training with warships from Japan and New Zealand and

Canada others in the region.

Is this somehow connected?

We don't know because Beijing doesn't announce the reasons for these aerial incursions. But what we do know is that, from the view of the leaders here

in Taipei, they feel they are being bullied, they feel they are being threatened. But this small island says it won't back down -- Will Ripley,

CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Still to come tonight, officials struggle to answer burning questions about California's oil spill.

What exactly caused it and how long did they know about the problem?

We will have the latest in a live report.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:45:00]

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KINKADE: Welcome back.

California's governor has declared a state of emergency in coastal cities affected by an oil slick. Authorities say more than 140,000 gallons of oil

may have been spilled in just the last few days. They're now trying to determine how it happened and when officials were notified about it.

Crews are also racing to clean up the mess and protect the fragile ecosystems. A number of animals have already been injured; many have died.

Let's get more on all of this from CNN's Camila Bernal in Huntington Beach, where clean-up efforts are underway.

Camila, if you can hear us there, I understand we now know 144,000 gallons of oil has spilled. That's certainly more than previously thought. Just

sort of give us an update on the clean-up efforts there.

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, the cleanup is ongoing. It is both on the beach here and in the water. There are two focuses for the day,

the cleanup and the investigation. So let's just start with the cleanup.

You can see the crews here behind me. They're in groups of about 10 and I'm seeing these guys literally picking up kind of blocks of this oil, pieces

of it. Some of it they are picking it up with their hands, they're using the shovels, they're using the rakes and they're just moving up and down

the beach, trying to clean up.

Similar efforts happening in the water with boats that are trying to pick up that oil that is floating. But I spoke to a couple of locals just a few

moments ago, who told me that they went out there on a boat. They're aware that they were not allowed to do that.

But they wanted to see what was going on and they were describing the oil at sea as a thick patty. They said they were shocked to see it. They even

said there was no way that any animal that was out there would survive, because they say it smelled like death. They said it was horrible to

witness that and they're hoping for accountability.

That's where the investigation part of this comes into the picture. Amplify Energy says they're working on finding out how this happened and why it

happened. They say that maybe it was the anchor of one of the ships passing by.

But it is interesting to note that we don't have an exact timeline of when this happened. There are reports, according to new documents, that say that

there were reports of this leak on Friday. But the energy company reported this to the authorities on Saturday. So a lot of questions into this

investigation.

And people demanding answers, specifically the district attorney here in Orange County, who says their investigation, the energy company's

investigation is not enough. They say it is biased and the company should not be investigating itself.

So what they're saying is they want independent divers to go out there, to try to figure out what happened. We are awaiting a press conference within

the next couple of minutes and they might tell us exactly how this happened. But it doesn't take away the fact that the locals here are angry,

they are upset and they want accountability -- Lynda.

KINKADE: Yes, a lot of questions still, Camila Bernal, we will stay on the story. Thanks so much.

Well, parts of the United Kingdom have been hit by flash floods after heavy rain storms rocked the country Monday night. Residents in London woke up to

severely water-logged roads, making it pretty tricky to get to work.

London mayor Sadiq Khan is warning that the extreme weather is evidence of the climate crisis being on our doorstep.

Still to come tonight, how do you create a theme song for the world's best known superspy?

We're going to hear from the man who composed 007's signature tune.

(VIDEO CLIP, "NO TIME TO DIE")

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[14:50:00]

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KINKADE: Welcome back.

It is opening bars and film fans around the world into a frenzy of excitement. The James Bond theme song is synonymous with death-defying

chases and high-tech sophistication. With the latest film releasing internationally this week, CNN's Christina Macfarlane sat down with the man

behind the music.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

MONTY NORMAN, COMPOSER (voice-over): The song itself somehow has something in it that everybody recognizes. The first scene is in a gambling place.

And Sean looked great in a new tuxedo. He was sitting opposite a very beautiful woman. Tilt up and saw his face for the first time. He lit a

cigarette and says --

SEAN CONNERY, ACTOR, "JAMES BOND": Bond, James Bond.

NORMAN (voice-over): And at that moment the Bond theme comes in.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

NORMAN (voice-over): From that moment onwards, Sean Connery was a star and the whole franchise was up and running.

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How did this theme tune come to life?

How did you compose it?

NORMAN (voice-over): I wrote a show called "A House for Mr. Biswas," which had V.S. Naipaul's book. He did the lyrics and I did the music. And I was

looking for the James Bond theme.

I suddenly remembered a song that I had written and put in my bottom drawer because we didn't use it. And it went, "I was born with this unlucky sneeze

and what is worse, I came into the world the wrong way 'round..."

(MUSIC PLAYING)

NORMAN (voice-over): And I suddenly thought, da-da-da, why not split the notes?

And it became dum-diddy-dum-dum and immediately I thought, this is it. This is just what we're looking for, a sinister, sexy song with all the ambience

that it needed.

MACFARLANE (voice-over): Over the years, the theme has been covered and reworked countless times, from Jon Barry's (ph) original orchestration for

"Dr. No," to Nobie's '90s interpretation for "Tomorrow Never Dies." But always, Monty's score shines through.

[14:55:00]

MACFARLANE: How does it feel to know that you created this masterpiece that is going to outlive you?

I mean it has been going for this long and, even today, young children, you know, young people recognize it instantly.

NORMAN: Absolutely.

MACFARLANE: How does it make you feel?

NORMAN: It was a marvelous show. I mean, I just couldn't believe that we got there. I hope it goes on forever, at least another 25 and possibly

longer. It probably will.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KINKADE: Well, for the first time ever, a feature film is being shot in space. A Russian crew has just arrived at the International Space Station.

An actress and a film producer are now on board to film segments for the movie, "Challenge."

It will tell the story of a surgeon who has to operate on a sick cosmonaut in space. Russian beat the U.S. to it, because NASA has been helping out

Tom -- on a Tom Cruise movie, keeping the space rivalry between the two countries alive and well.

Well, the Russian crew aren't the only one getting a trip to space. William Shatner, best known for his role as "Star Trek's" captain, James T. Kirk,

he is getting his own trip to the stars, thanks to Jeff Bezos.

It may not be the voyages of the Starship Enterprise but Shatner will be a passenger on board Blue Origin's New Shepard rocket for an 11-minute

suborbital trip. And at 90 years old, he will become the oldest person to reach space.

That does it for us tonight. Thank you for joining us. I'm Lynda Kinkade in Atlanta. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.

END