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Hala Gorani Tonight
Ethiopia Atrocities To Constitute Violation Of U.S. Trade Agreement; Europeans Fear Sharp Spike In Bills As Winter Approaches; Saudi-Backed Takeover Of Newcastle United Confirmed; Belarus Opposition Leader Speaks To CNN; Studies Confirm Waning Immunity From Pfizer Vaccine; Pfizer Asks FDA To Authorize Vaccine For Kids Ages 5 To 11; Federal Judge Blocks Enforcement Of Texas Abortion Law; 100-Year-Old Accused Of Nazi War Crimes On Trial In Germany; U.K. Removing 47 Countries & Territories From International Travel "Red List." Aired 2-3p ET
Aired October 07, 2021 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello everyone, live from CNN in London, I am HALA GORANI TONIGHT. The U.S. warns that it could sanction Ethiopia after a CNN
report reveals Ethiopian Airlines has ferried weapons during the Tigray war, Nima Elbagir joins me with her investigation. Also ahead, waning
immunity. We are talking just months after getting COVID-19 shots. What you need to know.
And also this hour, exiled from her own country and dismissed and belittled by its autocratic president. Belarusian's opposition leader will not be
silent. She joins me live this hour. Now, Ethiopia has for decades been the beneficiary of a U.S. government trade agreement, granting hundreds of
millions of dollars of favorable access to American markets. That has allowed Ethiopian Airlines in recent years to build a global fleet and
become one of the world's leading airlines.
For both the U.S. and Ethiopia, this relationship matters a lot, especially for Ethiopia. But for almost a year now, conflict has raised in Ethiopia's
Tigray region. Numerous CNN investigations have uncovered evidence of Ethiopian government atrocities. CNN has now found evidence that Ethiopian
Airlines cargo carriers have been shuttling weapons between Ethiopia and Eritrea, you see it there on the map. Experts believe that would constitute
a violation of international law and importantly a violation of the trade agreement with the United States.
Just hours ago, we learned that the Biden administration is warning that it could sanction those responsible for ferrying the weapons following CNN's
investigation. Take a look at Nima Elbagir's report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With direct flights from over 95 international destinations, fly Ethiopian Airlines, the new spirit of Africa. A Star
Alliance member.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): State-owned Ethiopian Airlines is Africa's premier carrier of passenger and freight
traffic. But among the regular cargo, evidence of sinister shipments. CNN can reveal based on documentary evidence and witnesses accounts, Ethiopian
Airlines has been transporting weapons between Ethiopia and Eritrea since the beginning of the war in Ethiopia that has seen thousands killed.
According to aviation experts, this would constitute a violation of aviation law.
Among the evidence are these stills that were taken on board Ethiopian Airlines flight ET 3313 and verified by CNN. It's the middle of the night,
this cargo plane is being loaded by hand, a slow and un-orthodox method. But look closer, this isn't the usual cargo. Inside these boxes are
mortars. They are being loaded onto this civilian aircraft and transported from Eritrea to Ethiopia. Here is the cargo manifest corroborating the day
and time, November 8th, 2020. The date is significant. It's just four days into the conflict, and months before Eritrea officially admits to being
involved.
Ethiopia has been at war with the Tigray regional government, the Tigray people's liberation front for almost a year. Eritrea to the north has
become the Ethiopian government's ally against the region of Tigray. An unusual alliance as the countries were previously at war with each other.
Now they have a common enemy, Tigray, and they are sharing weaponry.
(on camera): CNN, we're CNN journalists.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's impossible.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): CNN has been reporting on atrocities in Ethiopia since the beginning of the year.
(on camera): If you want to have detained a CNN team, then that's what's happened now because we're not going to the camp willingly.
(voice-over): We traveled to Tigray last April and saw for ourselves Eritrean troops manning checkpoints with impunity, while the Ethiopian
government denied their presence on the ground. That relationship between Ethiopia and Eritrea began months earlier in November 2020 which coincided
with an increase in the movement of weapons, shuttled back and forth from the Ethiopian capital to Eritrea. During the same month, there was also a
series of massacres in the region of Tigray.
An Ethiopian Airlines employee turned whistleblower spoke to CNN about how he had to deal with an unusual request.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
[14:05:00]
ELBAGIR: In various statements, Ethiopian Airlines has always adamantly denied ferrying arms on passenger or cargo planes. But in addition to
speaking with whistleblowers, verifying cargo manifests and authenticating stills, CNN has obtained airway bill receipts that show at least six
occasions in November where Ethiopian Airlines billed the Ethiopian Ministry of Defense to ship military items including guns and ammunition to
Eritrea.
MICHAEL RAYNOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ETHIOPIA: In the end, the success of Ethiopian Airlines is an important and impressive symbol of the
limitless potential of the U.S.-Ethiopian partnership.
ELBAGIR: Ethiopian Airlines built its cargo dominance, the relationship with the U.S. government, and American aviation giant Boeing. These new CNN
findings together with previous investigations into atrocities committed by Ethiopian forces would constitute violations of international law according
to aviation experts and run contrary to the terms of that relationship with the U.S. government. Whether this forces the U.S. to act substantively
against the Ethiopian government remains to be seen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, responding to CNN's latest investigation, Ethiopian Airlines said it complies with all aviation regulations and, quote, "to the best
of its knowledge and its records, it has not transported any war armament in any of its routes by any of its aircraft." A U.S. trade spokesperson
told CNN they would review eligibility for the U.S.-African growth and opportunity act next year, which will be based, quote, "upon compliance
with standards that include adherence to internationally recognized workers' rights, rule of law, and human rights." After the review, the U.S.
trade representative could, quote, "possibly recommend that the U.S. president add or remove certain countries from AGO, a beneficiary country
status."
Aircraft manufacturer Boeing said they had no comment for this story, and the Ethiopian and Eritrean governments did not respond to requests for
comments. So, let's bring in Nima Elbagir now for more. So, the U.S. -- I mean, is this a warning shot basically from the U.S.? Because from that
statement, it doesn't sound like anything is imminent.
ELBAGIR: Well, it feels like the U.S. has been playing this game, you know, without, you know, undermining, you know, the consequences at stake
here. But it does feel like they have been testing the water. They keep talking about wanting to give Ethiopia and Eritrea grace period to find a
resolution for this while the reality has been unfolding around them. And we've certainly heard from a lot of U.S. lawmakers in Congress, that as
they have been watching our reporting, our investigations, they've been growing increasingly frustrated with the Biden administration.
Congressman Malinowski spoke to us late last night after our report came out, and he said the time is up, the U.S. needs to act. So it feels like
what we got ahead of broadcast, i.e., that they're going to wait to review in 2022 is evolving as we've been hearing from subsequent administration
officials that first and foremost, they were going to look into this and look into sanctions. Just before we came to -- Hala, we heard that they
were going to be investigating our findings for themselves. So a lot of pressure on Biden, clearly.
GORANI: Nima Elbagir, thanks very much for that exclusive reporting. Now, Winter is coming, that is inescapable and a sharp spike in energy prices
has consumers in Europe in particular very worried they may not be able to afford their utility bills in the coming months. Weather and growing energy
demands have helped spark the crunch in the past few weeks alone the price of natural gas has skyrocketed. And when I use that term, I'm not using it
lightly. We are talking about a 130 percent rise since early last month. And some people say they are already being forced to decide between heating
their homes or taking a hot shower.
And we are in October. And imagine in some of those countries where Winters are bitter and long. Let's bring in CNN's Anna Stewart. First of all, Anna,
let -- tell us how bad the problem is in terms of how some people, as I said, are having to choose between heating their homes, taking a hot
shower, using hot water in their everyday lives because this increase in the price of natural gas has been reflected already in utility bills across
the region.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Well, the gas price has gone up eight times over the last year. That is crazy. And of course, energy companies, the
utility companies, they do hedge for gas, and not all of that gets passed on. But depending on where you are in Europe, this could be a punishingly
expensive Winter.
[14:10:00]
And that's because it does depend on where you are. Here in the U.K., for instance, it's capped by energy regulators for the consumer. That does mean
though that we've had a number of energy companies go bust just in the last few weeks, from about ten already. And that's because they cannot pass on
that cost to the consumer. Some nations around Europe, we're looking at Greece, Italy, Spain, France, they are all either implementing or
discussing to implement subsidies, tax cuts, grants to try and insulate consumers from what is going to be a very expensive Winter.
It's incredibly worrying. And this is as a result, you said of a number of issues, supply and demand. But the fact of the matter is that even while
we're trying to push towards a sort of greener future and Europe is trying to invest more in cleaner energies, the fact of the matter is, it's still
very reliant on hydrocarbons. It imports nearly 90 percent of gas from outside and nearly three-quarters of that is from Russia. And so, this
reliance that is baked in means that it's very exposed to price increases.
GORANI: Absolutely. And Russia is making an offer, right? To increase its supply of natural gas. Are there any strings attached to this?
STEWART: Hey, this has been a really interesting talking point now for some weeks because even IEA was saying, listen, Russia, you could export
more gas, it's below 2019 levels. Russia has said for some weeks now, it is fulfilling its long-term contracts to European customers, but it hasn't
promised, at least until this stage, to offer more on the spot markets. Now, as of yesterday, President Putin says, oh, wait, we could export more
gas to Europe. This would help enormously. In the same meeting, Hala, the deputy prime minister spoke about Nord Stream 2, the controversial pipeline
that has been built, it's ready, it goes down under the Baltic sea bypassing controversial Ukraine and to Germany.
It needs to be approved and they want it to be approved fast. And so, in the same meeting, they talk about exporting more gas to Europe. They also
talk about how this pipeline could be authorized quickly, and that would stabilize gas prices. So --
GORANI: Right --
STEWART: Read into that while you will, it won't be the first time a connection has been drawn between the two.
GORANI: There's always a geostrategic angle when it comes to energy and energy --
STEWART: Yes --
GORANI: Supplies. And I think, really, on the consumer level, this can be a very painful -- could be a very painful Winter for people, especially who
are living paycheck to paycheck. We're already hearing of people who are having to make some tough choices. Thanks so much, Anna Stewart, covering
that important story for us. I mentioned the waning efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine, we're going to explore that with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta after the
break.
And also, my conversation coming up next with the main opposition leader, the president of Belarus said he doesn't want a fight with women, but
Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya will not be dismissed. The Belarusian opposition leader joins me live with her response to Lukashenko's CNN interview. And
later, a federal judge blocks Texas' controversial abortion law, calling it an aggressive scheme to deprive citizens of a constitutional right. We'll
bring you the latest on that, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:15:00]
GORANI: Facebook is facing more potential problems as whistleblower Frances Haugen is expected to meet with a congressional panel investigating
the January 6th riot at the U.S. Capitol, and that could happen as soon as today. The former Facebook employee could provide insight into how the
social media giant responsibly used to facilitate violence that day. This also comes after she talked about how Facebook's Instagram affects
children's minds. Clare Sebastian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: It's just like cigarettes. Teenagers don't have good self-regulation.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Whistleblower Frances Haugen says she saw how Instagram's algorithm can lead the teenage brain down a
negative spiral.
HAUGEN: They say explicitly, I feel bad when I use Instagram and yet I can't stop.
SEBASTIAN: Experts say they've been seeing this for years.
PAUL WEIGLE, ADOLESCENT & CHILD PSYCHIATRIST: You could hit something really exciting, or you could connect with someone in a really positive way
that feels great. These things don't happen often, but they could happen at any moment. And this is not unlike a gambler who's playing a slot machine
and just plays it over and over because you never know when that next pull is going to hit a jackpot.
SEBASTIAN: Studies have shown the part of the brain that controls decision-making and judgment is still developing in teenagers.
(on camera): I want to understand the science of teens' emotional life.
(voice-over): Doctor and filmmaker Delaney Ruston says that can make it harder for them to stop doing something, even if it's upsetting.
DELANEY RUSTON, DOCTOR & PRODUCER, SCREENAGERS: They will have micro emotions that are positive like get attention and micro emotions that are
negative -- oh, I feel jealous of that person. The real concern that we have as a society is the teen brain is primed to more likely get absorbed
by that negative feeling.
SEBASTIAN (on camera): It's not just the type of content that can affect the teenage brain. It's the amount of time spent to sitting and scrolling.
WEIGLE: Remember that adolescence is a time when the brain is not finished developing, right? And it's not actually growing, it's actually
shrinking. But it's becoming more efficient.
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): Dr. Paul Weigle says if social media starts to displace other activities, that could leave a permanent mark.
WEIGLE: If a young person isn't engaging in certain activities sufficiently, whether they be, for example, social activities or developing
musical talent or reading, these parts of the brain tend to wither and are destroyed so that they can never really be regained.
HAUGEN: They say just take your kids' phone away. And the reality is those issues are a lot more complicated than that.
SEBASTIAN: Quitting social media in a digital world is not always realistic. Experts say there's a middle ground.
WEIGLE: I think that social media companies could very realistically put safeguards in place that encourage people to take breaks from social media.
RUSTON: Teens tell me over and over that they feel better when they have significant bouts of time off social media.
SEBASTIAN: Clare Sebastian, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: A Saudi-backed takeover of the Newcastle United football club is now done. The deal is reportedly worth a little more than $400 million. It
had to be approved by the English Premier League -- and some human rights groups are criticizing the deal, pointing to the Saudi regime's human
rights abuse allegations. The Saudi Crown Prince oversees an investment fund that is taking over a big portion of the club. Most fans didn't care
for the club's previous owner either, and "WORLD SPORT" anchor Don Riddell joins me now live with more.
Why did the Premier League go ahead and approve this if there's been so much controversy surrounding Saudi Arabia? I mean, of course, a few years
ago, there was the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and allegations of human rights groups of abuses inside the country.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: That is the big question, Hala, and you're right to say that the Newcastle United fans were not fans of their
previous owner Mike Ashley who was in charge for 14 years, he was accused of under-investing in the club, Newcastle United. One of the worst big
clubs, I suppose you could say in the Premier League.
[14:20:00]
They're a massive club with a big reputation, but they haven't really won anything really since the 1950s. So, they are thrilled to see Mike Ashley
gone. The question is now, how reputable are the club's new owners? The Premier League say they have been convinced that this is not a takeover by
the state of Saudi Arabia, the way that it has been sold to them is that it is a public investment fund and it is separate from the state of Saudi
Arabia. However, as you note, that this public investment fund is chaired by Crown Prince Mohammad Bin Salman, a man who U.S. Intelligence say proved
the murder of Jamal Khashoggi.
GORANI: So, what does that mean going forward for the club, this big injection of money, more players, more expensive players, better chances at
doing well in the Premier League?
RIDDELL: That is certainly what the fans are hoping, and I think what they're expecting. They would look to the recent histories of Chelsea and
Manchester City and they would expect that those riches are now coming their way. It remains to be seen, money doesn't always buy you happiness,
but that is the expectation. It will be fascinating to see what it does to the European transfer market, which has kind of stagnated since the
pandemic. There are a lot of big clubs on the continent that have a lot of expensive talent that they can't really afford to keep.
So it'll be interesting to see what this big new injection is going to do to the market, quite possibly Newcastle could end up overpaying for some of
those players. It's really interesting how this all fits out with the recent history of Saudi Arabia, which is trying to become a big player in
the world of sport. This is a huge investment for them buying a club that plays in the Premier League. But, as you can see here, they have a formula
one race which is going to be happening later this year.
They have hosted a European tour golf event for the last couple of years. They've staged big boxing events and also major horse racing events.
Amnesty International have described this as sports washing. The business of effectively laundering your reputation on the world stage through sport.
And this is another major investment by the country of Saudi Arabia.
GORANI: Right, not just that gulf country, Abu Dhabi, Qatar all buying football club. Money doesn't buy you happiness, but you have to have money
to know that, right?
RIDDELL: That's very true, yes.
GORANI: Thank you very much, Don Riddell. Now, we are seeing a humanitarian crisis develop on the border between Belarus and Poland. The
European Union is accusing the Belarusian government of weaponizing migrants, encouraging people to make the journey, then pushing them to the
border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(YELLING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Scenes of just absolute utter desperation. These are the latest pictures from the region. Polish border guards often detain these migrants,
then they deport them back across the border. The EU says Belarus is fueling this crisis as retaliation for sanctions that the bloc is imposing
on the regime. Belarus' president is denying this in an exclusive CNN interview, he also denied that opposition figures are jailed and tortured.
He denied a lot during the sit-down.
Alexander Lukashenko dismissed all the reasons that senior international correspondent Matthew Chance laid out that could explain why Belarus has a
difficult relationship with Europe these days, including the country's undemocratic nature.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER LUKASHENKO, PRESIDENT, BELARUS (through translator): The leader of the opposition is someone who lives in this country and has a different
point of view. They campaign to bring this alternative view to fruition. There are no such people in Belarus. They are somewhere over there on your
side, paid by you.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, they fled the country because they're frightened of staying here. The people that have
stayed have been imprisoned, put in jail for like 10 and 11 years because of their opposition activities, and you know that's the case.
LUKASHENKO: Look, if one is a revolutionary and they got themselves involved in a revolution, more over tried to win a blitzkrieg here with
foreign money, they need to be prepared for anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, I want to get reaction to that exclusive CNN interview with the president of Belarus. Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya is the leader of the
Belarusian opposition, and she joins me now live from Vilnius, Lithuania. Thank you Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya for joining us. First of all, the
president of Belarus, Lukashenko, he mentioned you by name during this interview with CNN. How do you react to being described in the way that he
has described you on international television as someone who just does not have legitimacy?
SVIATLANA TSIKHANOUSKAYA, BELARUSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: You know, I'm sorry, but you made the same mistake that the journalist made in that
interview.
[14:25:00]
You called him President Lukashenko. It's absolutely not necessary to do this because he lost the last elections and he's illegitimate president in
our country. But you know, the fact that he's not -- he doesn't name me, you know, it doesn't matter because I know who I am, what I'm fighting for,
and he's just avoiding naming me, not to pronounce -- not to pronounce my name publicly, you know, just to avoid it, but Lukashenko knows who I am
and what I am doing.
GORANI: So, what are your plans? You want another election to take place in Belarus. You want to reclaim what you believe is your rightful place in
Belarusian politics. How do you do that?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Look, we -- there is a deep crisis in Belarus, political crisis, economic crisis. And this is only because Lukashenko lost the last
election, but he wants to gain his power, thanks to violence.
GORANI: Right --
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: And people in Belarus are fighting for change of the situation, and we are sure that to get out of this crisis, it's possible
only with new elections. And now, we mobilize society in Belarus, mobilize international society, you know, to put pressure on the regime, to make
them understand that there is no other way out on the new elections.
GORANI: Yes, but it doesn't -- when you listen to Lukashenko, he doesn't sound like somebody who is under pressure. He sounds like somebody who is
pretty confident that he's got things under control, that, you know, as we've reported, opponents and critics of the regime have been jailed, they
have been forced to flee such as yourself. Do you believe that his hold on power is in any way under threat, and if so, why?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: No, he's an experienced politician. He knows how to keep his face, you know, strong. And -- but for sure, regime now is fragile as
never before. He understands that he lost the image of a strong person and he gained the image of criminal in the eyes of Belarusian people. And he
doesn't control situation. He jails people, he use violence and repression against people. But people are not giving up and he knows this. He knows
that people inside the country are continuing their fight secretly underground. But -- and also, people who had to flee the country also
create a lot of initiatives.
You know, international community is full of Belarusian people because we share common values. And sanctions were imposed on Lukashenko's regime, and
he is like, trapped. But, yes, he keeps face.
GORANI: But the international community is imposing sanctions, but do you feel they're doing enough that they could be doing more? Here you have a
man who's been described as -- you know, an autocrat and worse by western democracies. Do you think that what they're doing goes far enough?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: You know, what's going on in Belarus with our relatives, with our beloved is our pain. And I think that much more could be done. But
I know that organizations that were created, you know, to solve such crimes as in Belarus. Sometimes, not very efficient with their regimes because you
know, two sides should be involved in solving the crisis. So we think that political and economic isolation of the regime is the most powerful
leverage.
The only thing is that we have to be consistent. Even after one year of resistance, you know, people are tired and countries are tired, but, look,
we have to bring this case until the end because Belarus will be a success story. A success story of bringing the country to democracy with peaceful
meaning.
GORANI: You're still taking many risks, I mean, just speaking out. I mean, you've had instances of people who have been -- whose planes have been
diverted back to Belarus and then jailed. You must have some level of concern for your safety, your own husband is jailed.
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: You know, all the people who are fighting against regime now are the targets of this regime. And we understand that regime has long
hands, and we understand our, you know, responsibility for everything we are doing. But, look, we can't stop, we can't give up because we can't
betray those people who sacrificed with their lives, with their freedom, there are thousands of people behind the bus at the moment. And we have to
fight further because they, with this sacrifice, they gave us opportunity to continue our fight. So, just -- we have only one way forward.
GORANI: I want to ask you one last question because your name, your cause has gone around the world, you have become a figurehead really for this
opposition movement to Lukashenko. To the point where even your name has been floated as the possible recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, which will
be announced tomorrow. If something like that should happen, how would you react to it? How would you feel about such a prize, such an honor?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Of course, we would be delighted, happy to get this prize because Belarusian people, brave (ph) people, our nation that renewed last
summer, deserve this prize. We show to the whole world that after 27 years of sleep, you know, we found strength in ourselves and we are fighting
against the strongest dictatorship in Europe. So I think this prize will help us to attract more attention to our case to show people that nothing
is ended that our revolution is continuing under huge repressions.
People are still tortured in jails. And the whole world again should pay more attention to the situation of human rights abuses in Belarus.
GORANI: Well, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, thank you very much for joining us. So the main opposition leader in Belarus and so many of the opposition,
politicians and activists in your country are women. And it is notable how many of you are women, and then how you have continued to keep this cause
alive, and in the news.
Thank you so much for joining us, and from Vilnius, Lithuania.
Still to come tonight, a fight that could land on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court. Texas is vowing to appeal after a federal judge blocks the
states six weeks -- six-week abortion law. We'll be right back with what's likely to happen in the courts next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:35:44]
GORANI: Well, it's something we've all been worried about all the people, especially the older people who got their vaccines six, eight, nine months
ago about the waning efficacy of some of their jobs. A new research seems to confirm that COVID immunity from Pfizer's vaccine starts to wane over
time. Two real world studies show that protection gradually drops off after about only two months, but it's still strong against severe illness and
death. The results were published a day before Pfizer asked American regulators to authorize the vaccine for kids aged five to 11.
Let's break all of this down now with our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who joins me now live. So Dr. Gupta, the drop off is pretty
significant after six months. Does this mean that really we all should get booster shots?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't know that that's still clear yet. I mean, what we -- what you mentioned as well was that the
protection against severe illnesses is high and it has remained high. I think the real question is, when you give these boosters, do you get the
sort of surge of antibodies that predictively come down? And is there value in doing that in the general population? I don't know that we can say that
yet.
Right now, in the United States, the FDA is set for people over the age of 65, and those who have significant risk factors, such as obesity, such as
diabetes. And frankly, when you do the math on that, Hala, it's more than half the country, frankly, that would --
GORANI: Right.
GUPTA: -- qualify just based on those risk factors. So a lot of people may qualify for boosters. But I think you got to keep in mind, we're measuring
antibodies, there's all these different parts to immunity overall.
GORANI: Yes.
GUPTA: And we're seeing that at work because people are still staying out of hospital, the immune system still revved up.
GORANI: Right. So, I guess if the objective is to keep people out of the hospital and prevent them from developing severe disease, at least we know
that the vaccine is accomplishing that. What about for kids five to 11, what's the thinking there?
GUPTA: Well, I think, first of all, I -- Pfizer is now submitting the data to the FDA. So they feel like their data is good enough. We've been
following those trials along for some time. At the end of October, October 26th, the FDA will probably make their recommendation as to whether or not
this will be authorized, and then we'll hear from the CDC.
If that all goes and I think over the next few days after that, by the end of October, early November, there could be an authorized vaccine for those
people that age.
GORANI: Yes.
GUPTA: The thinking is interesting, right, to your point, Hala. We know that young people are far less likely to get very sick. And we just said
that's what the vaccine primarily does. I think that there's two points. One is that kids can still get sick. I mean, you know, even though it's
rare, it still can happen. And they can still develop long-term symptoms, you know, which I think really make the case that you don't -- people
shouldn't get this virus, you should do everything you can to avoid it.
But there is the collective part of this as well. In the United States, we're starting to see these downward trends, as you mentioned, starting to
maybe look at this thing as something that can be under control. And part of getting there is getting more immunity. And kids, you know, five to 11
are about 9 percent of the population. So that could help. I think that's driving the thinking, yes, protection for the individual, but protection
for the collective as well.
GORANI: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always, thanks very much for explaining that those -- especially the waning sort of efficacy of those
vaccines over time. Thank you very much.
Let's turn now to a controversial Texas law that is fueled international debate and could lead to a showdown at the U.S. Supreme Court. A federal
judge has sided with the Justice Department by blocking the state's six- week abortion ban. In a scathing order, the judge said the court would not sanction one more day of what he called the, quote, offensive deprivation
of such an important right. Texas immediately announced it was appealing.
CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig joins me now live from New York with more. What's the expectation, because the state of Texas is now appealing
against this ruling, suspending the legislation?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Hala. So this is a very important ruling that we got last night, but it's important to understand
where we are procedurally.
[14:40:03]
This was a ruling by a district court judge, which is the lowest of our three levels of federal courts here in the United States. What's going to
happen now is Texas is going to appeal up the next level, which is the Court of Appeals were divided into different circuits. This is the Fifth
Circuit.
Now it's important to note, the Fifth Circuit is the most famously conservative circuit in the United States. So if we're reading the tea
leaves, that suggests they may reverse and put the Texas law back in place. After that, whoever loses at the Fifth Circuit can try to get the case up
to the United States Supreme Court. However, nobody has a right to go to the U.S. Supreme Court. It's up to the U.S. Supreme Court if they want to
hear a case or not.
GORANI: Yes. So the last, if the Supreme Court does not hear the case, then that's it, there are no more possible appeals?
HONIG: Exactly. If the Fifth Circuit rules and the United States does not take the case, then it stays at the Fifth Circuit. But the thing is Roe
versus Wade, of course, is the law of the country. And the big question here is, will Roe versus Wade remain intact?
Roe versus Wade basically says the States cannot pass restrictive abortion laws. Now Texas has done just that. The judge in the decision yesterday
said that the law was flagrantly unconstitutional. So, if the Supreme Court does not take this case, then Roe versus Wade will still stay on the books.
But watch what happens this term because there's a separate abortion case out of Mississippi that the Supreme Court --
GORANI: Sure.
HONIG: -- has already announced they are going to hear, they're going to hear arguments December 1st, and that's where the Supreme Court may
actually reverse its own long-standing precedent in Roe versus Wade.
GORANI: OK, so we could see a situation in the United States, where at -- in the highest court of the land, the Supreme Court of the United States,
there is a threat to the -- to Roe versus Wade, which gives a woman a right to get an abortion.
HONIG: Yes, Roe versus Wade was issued by the Supreme Court in 1973. So 48 years ago, and it's been the law of the land ever since then, that states
cannot take away a woman's right to abortion, cannot unduly restrict it. Here we are, though, it's 2021 and there is the biggest conservative
majority we've had on Supreme Court in many, many decades.
We have a six to three conservative Supreme Court right now and there's just no getting around that. And the question is, will they reverse their
own precedent? The Supreme Court does do this from time to time, they can do it because they're the Supreme Court. So, this could happen in 2021. I
know it's sort of unimaginable, but the Supreme Court does take back and reverse its own precedent from time to time.
GORANI: The Fifth Circuit ruling, when should we expect that?
HONIG: So the circuit ruling will be on an emergency basis. Texas will probably go up to the circuit as soon as today. And I imagine they'll rule
fairly quickly within a week or so because this is emergency. The question now is just, will the law remain in place or not while the legal battle is
ongoing? So I think we'll hear from the circuit fairly soon.
GORANI: Elie Honig, thanks so much for breaking that down for us. Appreciate it.
HONIG: Thanks, Hala.
GORANI: Still to come tonight, more than 70 years after the end of World War II, the trial begins for an elderly Nazi era death camp guard charged
with complicity in mass murder. We'll be right back with that soon (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:45]
GORANI: More than seven decades after the end of World War II, the oldest person ever to be tried for Nazi era war crimes is now in the doc (ph).
Fred Pleitgen is following the story from Berlin. Who is this person and talk to us about the case against them.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Hala. Well, this gentleman was a guard at the concentration camp in
Sachsenhausen, which is actually just here to the north of Berlin, apparently, who was a concentration camp guard there. Who was also a member
of the SS as well, in the years from 1942 until 1945. And he's charged in that court, in the state of Brandenburg, with being an accessory to murder
in around or more than 3,500 cases.
Now the Sachsenhausen concentration camp, it was one of those camps where a lot of people were killed simply by hard labor by awful conditions, also
medical experiments. There was also a gas chamber there as well and, of course, summary shooting, summary executions. And with all of this, the
court is obviously now trying to prove that this man was involved in all this and therefore also bears responsibility.
But for the relatives of the victims, for the people who were killed, and a lot of them were in the courtroom today, a lot of them just wanted to get
some sort of closure. They want to hear from this man some sort of descriptions of what happened. And they really didn't get that because he
refused to speak.
I want you to listen to what the vice director of the International Auschwitz Committee had to say after this first trial date.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPH HEUBNER, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL AUSCHWITZ COMMITTEE (through translation): He obviously does not want to find the
strength to remember. And for the camp survivors and the relatives of those killed who came here to hear a piece of truth, it means yet another
rejection and an insult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: So obviously, a very difficult time there for the relatives of those who were killed, of course, the relatives of those who survived and
then later died as well. And I think one of the things that we're seeing right now here in Germany, and of course, in other places with trials like
this one, you mentioned this is the oldest person ever to be put on trial, is that time really is running out. The further we get away from the end of
World War II, from the end of the Holocaust, to put people on trial, and of course, also to help the people who are the victims, get some sort of
closure and then also, of course, get some sort of justice as well, Hala.
GORANI: And why did it take so long to get him to face these accusations in court?
PLEITGEN: Yes, you know, it's -- that's a very, very good question and certainly one that also has a lot to do with post-World War II history here
in Germany. For a very long time, people like the gentleman who's on trial now would not have been put on trial because it was only people who
actually killed people who pulled the trigger, who were then put on trial, who were considered liable to be put on trial.
There were many people of what Germans call Schreibtisch (ph), which is people perpetrators who sit at desks and others who, for instance, were
guards who were not put on trial for a very long time. A lot of that change in 2011. And since then, we've seen more of these trials, in fact, parallel
right now in Germany. There's one going on against a 96-year-old woman who actually fled her apartment before being apprehended in the taxi was
fugitive for a while.
So there are more trials like this happening now. But of course, as we've been saying, time is running out. And then of course, there's a lot of
forensic and investigative work as well. And I talked to the authority that was in charge of that. And they said that the reason they managed to get to
this individual was that they checked the records of the concentration camp Sachsenhausen, of the memorial site Sachsenhausen, but they also went all
the way to the military archives in Moscow to find records there as well.
And that's just finding the people, that's not actually tying them to the crimes in a way that you can prove things in front of court. A lot of work
that needs to be done. Very little time left, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Fred Pleitgen live in Berlin, thanks very much.
If you're traveling to the U.K., here's some news for you. The British government is removing 47 countries and territories from its red list of
travel destinations. That means fully vaccinated travelers returning to England from these places will no longer have to go to a quarantine hotel.
[14:50:00]
These changes will kick in on Monday. When I said these places, I was fully hoping for a list, but I guess it's not there, anyway. Only seven countries
will remain on the red list. Among them Colombia, the Dominican Republic, and Peru. So just keep in mind the ones that are still on the red list,
which means you have to quarantine on arrival.
Still to come tonight, the movie "Cars" designed for style, speed and spies. We'll go inside the studio behind James Bond's iconic vehicles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: In just a few hours, a new James Bond film will be released in U.S. theaters. And to mark the debut, we're taking a look at the car 007 made
into a co-star. Christina Macfarlane takes us for a drive and Bond's Aston Martin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN SENIOR SPORTS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the moment the DB5 first took to the Alpine roads in Goldfinger, Aston
Martin has been synonymous with Bond. Through countless turns, skits, and high speed pursuits, Bond may have flirted with other brands and models,
but the Aston Martin has always been his car of choice, even if he has had the tendency to destroy a few of them over the years.
Speeding around the inner track at the Silverstone Formula 1 circuit, I got a taste of the classic DB5 that a custom made rallycross suspension system
built to take home the thrills and spills James Bond might come to encounter.
MAREK REICHMAN, DIRECTOR OF DESIGN, ASTON MARTIN: It's a ground up engineering task that has to be performed in six months. And part of my
role there is to make sure that that car looks and feels and sounds exactly the same as a DB5.
It's an all carbon fiber body over a space frame chassis. But on the screen, you would imagine that's a DB5. There is no car like in the world.
MACFARLANE (on-camera): I feel like we've walked into Q's workshop here. I mean, this feels like the epicenter of all the cool stuff. What are we
seeing here?
REICHMAN: So this is our V12 Vantage Vista, and this is the final clay model.
[14:55:04]
I still believe that the hand sculpting is the best way to get an emotional surface because it is literally someone creating the surface from a
designer sketch.
MACFARLANE (on-camera): In the production side of things, I just wonder, throughout the process of these films being made, how much it works in
reverse that you might interject and say, "Oh, hang on a minute, there's something we could do here." You know, if you want, why not? You know, in
terms of the the gadgets and the sunset. Does that ever happen?
REICHMAN: I open the doors to this design studio. And first of all, the designers want to be involved because why wouldn't you? So they then often
come up with ideas for gadgets, how you could make something work, how does the ejector seat deploy in DB10.
In Casino Royale, we actually created the defibrillator that he uses. We had great conversations about the flame throws out the back of DB10. How
big should the exhaust be to make this look as though it would really happen? Where should the exhaust be placed? So they're always great
conversations in that respect.
It's a lot of fun. You know, the reality is that we make real cars as well. They're not batmobiles that you're only ever making them for the movie. The
reason you're excited so much is it's the real scenes, so it's not CGI. There's something about seeing a real stunt in a movie that you just say,
yes, well that's quite special.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Thanks for watching tonight, I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming your way next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
