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Hala Gorani Tonight

U.S. President Joe Biden Meets Italian Leaders, Macron And Pope; Queen Elizabeth II Told To Rest For At Least Two Weeks; "Rust" Movie Armorer Breaks Silence On Fatal Shooting; Social Media Giant Changes To "Meta" Amid Backlash; Attorneys: "Rust" Armorer Has No Idea How Live Ammo Got On Set; Kremlin: Putin To Attend Virtually. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired October 29, 2021 - 14:00   ET



LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, live from the CNN Center here in Atlanta, I'm Lynda Kinkade in for Hala Gorani. Tonight,

President Biden arrives in Europe ahead of the upcoming G20 Summit and next week's COP26. The latest meeting with the Pope and the French president,

we'll have the details on both of those. And also, we're going to speak with a former Facebook employee about the company's rebranding, which is

raising eyebrows and serious questions.

Plus, the armorer on the "Rust" movie set speaks out through her lawyer, saying she had no idea where the live ammunition came from that killed a

cinematographer. Well, a 90-minute meeting between the world's two most prominent Catholics and then with a scorned ally.

Joe Biden wrapping up a busy first day on his second international trip as U.S. President. He was greeted in Rome by the Italian prime minister and

president, hosts of the G20 Summit. He also had a potentially awkward encounter with the French -- with his French counterpart, Emmanuel Macron.

We're going to have more on that in just a moment.

And earlier, President Biden had a friendly and lengthy meeting with Pope Francis, who said the president is a good Catholic. Delia Gallagher has

more from Rome.


DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): A warm welcome for President Joe Biden arriving at the Vatican Friday. America's devout Catholic leader

clearly excited for his audience with Pope Francis here at the heart of the Roman Catholic Church.

These are two of the world's most influential Catholics, one, the leader of the most powerful nation, the other, the most powerful moral voice in the

world. Behind the smiles and camaraderie, their focus is on two global challenges, climate change and COVID-19.

The pope is hoping for U.S. leadership at the G20 Summit of global leaders this weekend and the crucial climate conference in Scotland. Earlier

Friday, he made a point of intervention.


GALLAGHER: COP26 starts this weekend, but the president set foot in Europe without securing a deal in Congress for his climate agenda, and the leaders

heading to Glasgow disagree on crucial issues like phasing out coal, making the world's path to limit global warming harder to reach. At the Vatican,

Biden praised Pope Francis for his leadership on the climate crisis as well as his campaign to get more vaccines to the world's poor.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You are the most significant warrior for peace I've ever met.

GALLAGHER: The men exchanged gifts, Biden handing the pope a military coin with deep personal significance, bearing the insignia of the unit his late

son Beau served in. The two men are known to have a personal rapport. The pope met the Biden family after Beau's death in 2015. Biden said his

meeting with the pope was, quote, "wonderful". He'll hope it sets the tone for a five-day marathon of talks with some difficult diplomacy ahead. Delia

Gallagher, CNN, Rome.


KINKADE: Well, CNN's religion commentator, father Edward Beck joins us now via Skype. Good to see you.


KINKADE: So, it was interesting seeing that meeting earlier today with U.S. president and the pope, which went on for almost 90 minutes, the longest

time in recent memory between a U.S. president and a pope. And there was certainly a very special exchange. I just want to play some of it for our

viewers. Let's just take a listen.


BIDEN: And with your permission, I'd like to be able to give you a coin.


BIDEN: It has the U.S. seal on the front.


BIDEN: I know my son would want me to give this to you because on the back of it, I have the state of Delaware and the 261st unit my son served with.


BIDEN: Now, the tradition is --


BIDEN: I'm only kidding about this.


BIDEN: If next time I see you, and you don't have it --


BIDEN: You have to buy the drinks.


BIDEN: I'm the only Irishman you have ever met who has never had a drink.



KINKADE: Certainly quite a lovely moment there. The U.S. president, only the second Catholic president here in the United States. What do you make

of the relationship between the president and the pope?

BECK: Well, I think, Lynda, it's obvious that they spent so much time together. Remember when President Trump met with Pope Francis, it was a 30-

minute meeting and the pope didn't look too happy afterwards. Barack Obama, 50 minutes. Now, we're up to 75, which extended totally to 90 minutes. So

that's a lot of time.

And remember, it's not the first time these two men have met. It's the fifth time. And I was very touched with the coin he gave the pope in memory

of his son because the last time, one of the last times that he met this pope was in 2015 when the pope came to the United States, and it was only

four months after the death of President Biden's son, Beau.

And President Biden met -- I mean, Pope Francis met with President Biden and his family and consoled them about the death of Beau, and Biden said

later that it helped them so much. If anybody going through that much loss could feel that kind of solace from somebody as important as Pope Francis,

he wished it for anyone who is grieving. And so that was a particularly touching moment I think today.

KINKADE: Yes, as you've mentioned, they have -- they have had some pretty remarkable moments together in the past. Certainly here in the U.S.,

there's also -- there's always fierce debate about abortion laws. And those in the Catholic Church, some quite high up have said that the U.S.

President shouldn't take the holy sacrament of communion because of his stance, but the pope disagrees as we heard today.

BECK: Well, interestingly, Biden said when he was asked how things went, did abortion come up? And he said no, but he told me that I'm a good

Catholic and I should still keep taking communion, which actually was a big deal because, as you said, it's been a controversial thing especially with

some Bishops here in the United States and some neo-conservative Catholics as well. However, when the Vatican was asked to comment, did the pope say

this? They said, well, we've given our summary and the rest of the conversation is private.

So they did not confirm what President Biden says. We have no reason to believe it was not true, but I don't think the pope wants to enter into

those waters in a public way. He considered that a private conversation. President Biden chose to share it, which is his privilege, but the pope did

not comment further on that.

KINKADE: Right, interesting point you make. Of course, one of the big points of discussion today was climate change, and the U.S. under the

president's plan, which is yet to be approved, talks about this $550 billion which would be the most spent on any sort of climate action in the

U.S. ever. And we know that the pope certainly regards this as a major issue. He's called for collective action, and he's the leader of 1.3

billion Catholics, very much an environmentalist, right?

BECK: Very much so, Lynda. He wrote an encyclical, one of the two that he has written called "Legato C", and it's all on the environment and the

urgency of global warming and the need to address it, especially in countries that have large carbon imprints like China, like the United


And the pope worries that poorer countries are really the victims of other countries not addressing this forcefully enough. And so, he was supposed to

go to Glasgow for the climate summit, and he said a few months ago, he was getting his speech ready.

For whatever reason, maybe it's his health, they cancelled that. He is not going. But, as you know, he did appear on "BBC" and he gave a five-minute

little speech really extolling the nations of the world to take this seriously and the Glasgow Summit to really take it seriously, and have

forceful action to begin to make change. This is very near and dear to his heart, and he keeps coming back to this issue, that we are a common people,

a common earth that we share, and we have responsibility to one another.

KINKADE: All right, we'll see how the rest of this summit proceeds. Good to have you with us for that perspective, father Edward Beck, thanks so much.

BECK: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, the audience with the pope wasn't the president's only momentous meeting today in Rome. He also sat down with the French President

Emmanuel Macron, symbolically at the French Embassy. Mr. Biden was hoping to call France's anger over a U.S.-U.K. submarine deal with Australian

which was negotiated in secret and that jeopardized an earlier French- Australian agreement.


He admitted that the U.S. could have handled that better.


BIDEN: I think what happened was, to use an English phrase -- it was not done with a lot of grace.


KINKADE: Well, Mr. Macron responded that he and Mr. Biden clarified together what we had to clarify. And he said the two countries are united

in tackling climate change, health issues, terrorism and arms control. French President Macron is also set to hold what could be a momentous

meeting with British Prime Minister Boris Johnson at the G20.

The U.K. and France are in a sharply escalating dispute over fishing rights. CNN's Jim Bittermann is tracking all of this for us. I'll get to

that in a moment. I just first want to ask you about this diplomatic spat between the U.S. and France, because, I mean, we sort of saw an apology of

sorts over this submarine deal.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think so, and both men, I think, were taking pains to point out the fact that over the

last few weeks, there's been a lot of discussion between French officials and American officials about what they can -- how they can work together

and the kinds of things you talked about, counterterrorism and arms control and that sort of thing. And there's going to be, according to Mr. Macron,

there's going to be specifics come out after the meetings start taking place here, specifics on how the U.S. and France can work together again.

I mean, it is -- there was on the surface of it, the attempt to make things better, to make things look better. You had handshakes and hugs, if not

kisses, but hugs anyway. And the two men seemed to get along very well. I should point out as well that the two wives got together, two first ladies

got together, Brigitte Macron and Jill Biden had a glass of wine in a Roman cafe, the -- Brigitte Macron said, we were like two sisters. And I think

that's the sort of gloss that the U.S. and France would like to put over this dispute, which was really a tough dispute.

I mean, I think the French were very upset over the idea particularly they lost tens of billions in the contract with the submarines, that's one

thing, but they also were excluded from this Indo-Pacific pact, security pact that the U.K. and U.S. and Australia have gone into.

And I think that that's one thing that perhaps may come out. We'll have to see if this comes up in the coming days out of the discussions, whether or

not there will be any attempt to bring the French into that security arrangement. Lynda.

KINKADE: And Jim, I want to ask you about this, the fact that we're going to see the French leader meet with the British prime minister at a later

point. And this comes amidst this growing disagreement over post-Brexit fishing rights.

BITTERMANN: Indeed, and I mean, that's also a very serious dispute. In a funny way, the two disputes are related in the sense that President Macron

would like to see both of these things solved in a way, or at least addressed in a way because he's out running for re-election come this

Spring, and it would be good to put both behind him in some sort of fashion. I think with the case of Britain though, it's a little bit

tougher. The British have played hardball.

They called in the French ambassador to London, Catherine Colonna this afternoon, just about the same time that we saw President Biden and Macron

meeting, and she was seen going into the foreign office.

And so they are clearly upset about this idea that the fishing rights are being denied, that the French are holding two ships, for example, two

fishing boats up in the -- up in the north of France, and there's also been an accusation of summons to the captain of one of those ships that may have

to be brought to trial sometime in August of next year. So it's a long way off, they could -- if they solve this, they will be able to get around it.

But the French on their side have had -- the European Union says basically that the Brits have got to pay attention to the agreements that they have

signed when Brexit took place. The Irish are backing the French. So in many ways it bolsters Mr. Macron's status if he can stand tough with the Brits

and get back along with the United States. Lynda?

KINKADE: Well, we will be watching that meeting quite closely when the French leader meets with the British prime minister. Jim Bittermann for us.

Good to have you with us.


KINKADE: And still to come tonight, rising global temperatures are causing extreme weather and frequent disasters all around the world, but the U.N.

says there's still a chance to turn it around. That's ahead. Plus, Britain's Queen Elizabeth has been told to rest for two weeks. We'll have

details in a live report from our royal correspondent, Max Foster.



KINKADE: Welcome back. Queen Elizabeth in Britain has been told by her doctors to rest up for at least the next two weeks. Let's get straight to

our CNN royal correspondent Max Foster for more. He joins us just outside London. So, Max, her majesty instructed to lay low, rest up, now extended

for another two weeks.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, on the face of it is quite alarming when you hear these constant updates we've had over the last

couple of weeks, it's going to continue for another two weeks. And according to the palace statement, he majesty's doctors have advised that

she should continue to rest for at least the next two weeks. So, in theory, that could continue depending on the medical advice. We're not been told,

Lynda, what the concern here is. That's an issue of patient confidentiality, we're told.

But at the same time they're trying to reassure people -- they're trying to reassure people that she is still in these good spirits. So, a royal source

saying exactly that, she remains in good spirits, continues light duties at her desk. We've seen her, haven't we, Lynda, over the last couple of days

doing these virtual audiences with people at Buckingham Palace while she is at Windsor, she does seem in good form. So, it's a careful balancing act

here, but you know, they're trying to manage fears really I guess.

KINKADE: Yes, it sounds like they're taking every precaution. Are we going to see much more of her son, Charles, and her grandson William over the

next few weeks as she continues to try and rest?

FOSTER: Yes, so the next big event is COP26, she was due to be hosting a reception on Monday in Glasgow, she's been told she can't go there, but we

have been told that today she did record a video message for that. So, again, trying to reassure people that she's well enough to do that.

But Prince Charles and Prince William will be stepping up at that event to be hosting the world leaders there. So, I think that actually a big moment

for them and their spouses as well, Camilla and Kate, who will be expected to step up in this key diplomatic moment.

It's really these moments where the royal family really show their worth because world leaders still revere the queen. She is the longest serving

head of state in the world. She is famous for being able to host events, effectively charming people, not offending anyone.

So, that's going to be a test I think for William and Charles. No one expects them to fail in that, but we're seeing this gradual transition and

a reality check really, that the queen can't do as much as she thinks she can do, and also people can't always expect her to turn up these days at

the age of 95.


KINKADE: Yes, you have to, and it's easy to forget that she is 95, considering just how busy her schedule is. Max Foster, good to have you

with us. Well, as Max mentioned, the queen will miss the COP26 climate summit, but other world leaders will gather in Glasgow, Scotland, on

Sunday. The U. N. Secretary General says the world is careening towards climate catastrophe, and the conference is the chance to get on the right

track. Our Phil Black has more.


PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are just some of the biblical events the world has seen and experienced in 2021. Extreme floods,

fires, droughts and record temperatures, across the U.S. and around the world. Proof, scientists say, we're already living in a climate crisis.

TODD STERN, U.S. SPECIAL ENVOY FOR CLIMATE CHANGE: It's here. I mean it's upon us. People see that. People feel that.

BLACK: Todd Stern led U.S. climate negotiations through the Obama administration and helped forge 2015 Paris Agreement.


BLACK: That breakthrough document includes a critical promise. All countries will work to keep the global average temperature increase within

1.5 and 2 degrees Celsius.

STERN: We've got a hell of a long way to go.

BLACK (on camera): Because the reality is at the moment, we're nowhere near to being on track, to keeping things below 2, let alone 1.5?

STERN: We're not near -- we're not near being on track, but we're getting better.

BLACK (voice-over): Better ultimately isn't good enough. At the Glasgow Climate Conference, each country will be judged on whether it's cutting

emissions sufficiently to ensure that crucial 1.5 degree target is still achievable. The scientific consensus says the goal is now slipping beyond

reach and the consequences will be disastrous.

BOB WARD, GRANTHAM RESEARCH INSTITUTE ON CLIMATE & THE ENVIRONMENT, LSE: Without action to curb green house gas emissions, we could see temperatures

go well beyond 3 degrees of warming by the end of the century, something that the earth has not experienced for 3 million years, long before humans

were on the planet. It would be a very different world.

BLACK: U.S. leadership through example, is vital at Glasgow to boost other countries' ambitions. The Biden administration's plan is bold, half U.S.

emissions by 2030, hit net zero carbon by 2050.

WARD: That's fantastic, but it needs to demonstrate that they can deliver that, and the lack of agreement at federal level and indeed, in many

states, to the outside world looks like that will be a major challenge.

BLACK: Success also depends on big, new commitments from China, the world's biggest polluter is responsible for more than a quarter of global

emissions. China's long-term goal is becoming carbon neutral by 2060.

STERN: So, it's quite important that China move much more than they have. Again, there's that long-term goal, it's pretty good, but between now and

2030, they haven't pledged really anything.

BLACK: The urgent challenge for China and many developing countries is to stop burning coal for electricity while still rapidly growing their

economies and lifting populations out of poverty. The issue is going to be a key focus at Glasgow, along with finance from rich countries to help

poorer countries make the change. But even before the conference opens, it's clear there are tensions over some countries' unwillingness to offer

detailed, ambitious commitments.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. CLIMATE ENVOY: We're behind, and we have to stop the BS that is being thrown at us by a number of countries that have not been

willing to sign up to what Great Britain has signed up to, we have signed up to, Japan, Canada, the EU. That is to keep 1.5 degrees alive.

BLACK: It's expected Glasgow will deliver progress, but will it be enough? As frequent extreme events demonstrate the growing dangers of failure,

scientists are sure there's now very little time left to prevent climate change on a devastating scale. Phil Black, CNN, London.


KINKADE: Well, ahead of the climate summit, we are seeing protesters n cities across the world. They've gathered today in London, Tel Aviv and

Paris, demanding urgent action. Today, their agenda was focus. Our Scott McLean has more.


SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, climate change activists in cities around the world were not prepared to wait for the COP26 summit

in Glasgow to start to make their voices heard. These series of protests focus not on what the politicians will or will not pledge, but instead on

financial institutions and calling on them to divest from fossil fuel investments. The one in London in particular focused on Standard Chartered

Bank. Organizers though may be disappointed with the turnout.

At one point it seemed like there was more assembled press here than actual protesters, despite the presence of activist Greta Thunberg.


Standard Chartered yesterday put out a statement about their environmental goals, saying that by 2030, they will not deal with any clients who are

more than 5 percent reliant on coal. For these protesters though, that was not enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Been running this campaign for nearly a year now. And they have had some changes in their coal policy, like actually, just

yesterday, they released a new coal policy, but even then it's still very insufficient. So, what we really want is to highlight I guess the

hypocrisies of companies like Standard Chartered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can no longer expect to see people dying while listening to politicians saying -- making pledges for decades ahead, like

people are dying now.

MCLEAN: Now, Thunberg didn't speak to the crowd, she didn't answer any questions from the press either. She kind of snuck off when she decided to

leave. I did though as she was leaving, tried to ask her about what she thought about China's climate change targets, which were announced ahead of

the COP26 Summit, China is responsible on its own for one-quarter of global greenhouse gas emissions and many critics say China is not doing nearly

enough, does not have nearly ambitious enough targets to keep the world from warming faster than .5 degrees Celsius. When I asked Greta Thunberg

about that, well, she didn't answer. Scott McLean, CNN, London.


KINKADE: Well, still to come tonight, will rebranding help Facebook reinvent itself and move beyond the scandals that have rocked the company

for months? We're going to speak with a former employee and tech journalist ahead. And the gun supervisor for the movie "Rust" is speaking out about

the film's fatal shooting. What she says about the live ammunition found on set.




KINKADE: Welcome back. Well, Facebook is betting on a new frontier, hoping that his foray into virtual reality under the new name Meta can turn the

page on a series of scandals. But as Paula Newton reports, critics think some of the same problems plaguing the company now could get even worse.


PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In a corporate event that seemed to have the vibe of a budget sci-fi flick.




NEWTON: Mark Zuckerberg, the founder and head of all things Facebook, introduced the Metaverse.


ZUCKERBERG: Together, we can finally put people at the center of our technology, and deliver an experience where we are present with each other.


NEWTON: What is it? Put simply an immersive way to connect online for both business and pleasure using virtual and augmented reality. And Zuckerberg

is all in rebranding Facebook's corporate name to Meta. It's from the Greek word "beyond" he says.


ZUCKERBERG: Your devices won't be the focal point of your attention anymore.


NEWTON: Now if Meta is the future, in the present, the Facebook brand on the site and the app won't change. What Zuckerberg is trying to pull off is

more profound than that.


SHEERA FRENKEL, TECH REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: He is trying to take control of what he thinks is going to be the big next wave of technology. And the

question is going to be whether the world accepts that, whether people in spite of all of the controversy and stuff, in spite of all the crises that

have hit Facebook in the last month are going to want to put their trust in Facebook.


NEWTON: Despite accusations of a toxic business model and dangerous fallout to match, Zuckerberg's strategy of plowing ahead with ambitious market

domination has worked.


ZUCKERBERG: Our mission remains the same.


NEWTON: And in rebranding, Zuckerberg has nothing substantive to say on how Facebook can become a safer social media space, especially for teenagers

and young people.


ZUCKERBERG: I know that some people will say that this isn't a time to focus on the future. And I want to acknowledge that there are important

issues to work on in the present. There always will be.




NEWTON: In recent months, former Facebook employees have provided evidence that Facebook was aware of its role in disseminating the misinformation

that breeds and spreads on its social media platforms. In a statement, Zuckerberg said the documents released were cherry picked to present a

misleading narrative about the company.


HAUGEN: There's a pattern of --


NEWTON: Frances Haugen says she fears the same problems will occur in Facebook's new Metaverse.


HAUGEN: I was shocked to hear recently that Facebook is rebrand -- or is -- wants to double down on the Metaverse and that they're going to hire 10,000

engineers in Europe to work on the Metaverse. I think there is a view inside the company that safety is a cost center. It's not a growth center,

which I think is very short-term in thinking.


NEWTON: What is not short-term, the insidious effects of Facebook social media platforms worldwide. Regulators have so far failed to create and

enforce laws that prevent the worst abuses online. Those powered by algorithms and A.I. that can efficiently disperse misinformation and hate.

To that, Zuckerberg has added a new challenge potentially, the even more invasive Metaverse. Paula Newton, CNN.


KINKADE: Well, I want to get some perspective on this from someone who knows Facebook. Will Guyatt is a former employee of both Facebook and

Instagram. He's a tech journalist joining us tonight from Wiltshire, England. Good to have you with us.


KINKADE: So Facebook has come under so much scrutiny lately. And now it's changed its name to Meta. Why now? What exactly is the Metaverse? Is it

something akin to the matrix?

GUYATT: Well, yes, it is. The best way it's been described to me is somebody described it as the Holodeck in Star Trek, if you're a nerd like

me, the idea that you can have a virtual world. This is going to be people using virtual reality headsets, and augmented reality glasses, spectacles

like mine, but with computers built into them so you can get graphics overlaid over what you can see for your field of vision.

It's an interesting timing for Facebook to rebrand as Meta. The cynic in me is that they're doing this to deflect from all of the issues they've got

globally. This is going to be the trickiest time Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook, or Meta as I should call them, I've ever had.

And this is a time for them to try and say, look, we want to move forward and look at what's next for the internet. The idea that the Metaverse is

going to be this big, new, exciting place with upside for investors, but also a chance for Meta to kind of show that they're not all about owning


They keep talking about collaborating on this Metaverse. They're investing money. They're saying to make it better for everybody, encouraging other

companies to get involved. It may be that Mark Zuckerberg and the team at Meta have read the room and seen that globally now they're going to have

issues with legislation in the U.S. and in the U.K. and in Europe. Everybody's interested in looking at ways of governing social media.


And I think this is this company's attempt to try and move on beyond it. I'm slightly disappointed though that it's being -- Mark Zuckerberg is

dismissing the problems that the company currently faces, as, you know, important things, but I've always got to look to the future.

They're spending billions of dollars on this new Metaverse project. They've already promised 10,000 new jobs in the E.U. One can't help but wonder why

they wouldn't spend that money on solving the problems, the misinformation, the bullying, all the kinds of problems that we hear about, that 10,000

jobs and those billions of dollars could actually help fix the problems that the service currently faces.

KINKADE: Yes, you make a really good point there. And Mark Zuckerberg tried to explain the timing of all of this. Just for our viewers, I just want to

play a little bit of sound.


ZUCKERBERG: With all the scrutiny and public debate, some of you might be wondering why we're doing this right now. The answer is that I believe that

we're put on this earth to create. I believe that technology can make our lives better. And I believe that the future won't be built on its own. We

live for what we're building. And while we make mistakes, we keep learning and building and moving forward.


KINKADE: He certainly seems to dismiss the so-called mistakes, which sound to be very substantial when you listen to the Facebook whistleblower. As a

former Facebook employee, I'm wondering what you thought when you were listening to the Facebook whistleblower testify here in the U.S., testify

in Britain, were you surprised by what's come out the internal documents we're now seeing?

GUYATT: Well, listen, one of the biggest challenges at the moment is this company is trying to make Mark Zuckerberg appeal like an -- appear like an

empathetic human in what was essentially a 90-minute soap opera episode yesterday. It was trying to bring the human side of him across.

Now, there are issues with this company, there have always been issues about profit over people. Should technology -- should the technology be

improved or should the money keep flowing in? That's kind of quite normal in any tech company of this size. Some of what I heard and some of what

I've heard in these cases I knew existed.

One of the biggest concerns for me is that some of this internal research and stuff that the company is now finding out about its own platforms, it

appears to be intentionally burying. They would disagree with that and dispute that as their version of it.

But it's concerning that for example Instagram is quoted as being considered a toxic environment for young people yet at the same time until

very recently, Facebook Inc., now Meta, was pushing forward of trying to launch the version of Instagram for under 13s. This is a company that's

clearly conflicted in many ways, and it doesn't appear to be being fixed.

It's almost as though Mark Zuckerberg is jingling his car keys and saying don't look at the problem over here. Focus over here at what we're doing in

the future in the hope that it all goes away.

KINKADE: Yes, change the name, try and rebrand and look to distract from the problems and -- significant problems that exist right now. We have to

leave it there, I'm afraid, Will Guyatt. Good to have you with us. Appreciate your time.

GUYATT: Thank you.

KINKADE: Well, I want to get to the latest now in the investigation into that fatal shooting on the set of the movie "Rust." The gun supervisor for

the film says she had no idea where the bullet came from that accidentally killed a cinematographer and injured the director.

A statement released by attorneys for Hannah Gutierrez says "Safety is Hannah's number one priority on set. Ultimately, this set would never have

been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. And it has no idea where the live rounds came from.

Well, for more on the investigation, I want to bring in CNN's Josh Campbell. He is in Santa Fe, New Mexico where the movie was being filmed.

Josh, we heard from the armorer, this 24-year-old woman, through a statement from her lawyer. But what has also emerged as an interview she

did with a podcast quite recently that points to her inexperience. Just take us through it.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, we're hearing from investigators and prosecutors here that the one key piece of information

that they're focused on in trying to determine whether they will be bringing criminal charges in the fatal shooting of the cinematographer is

how live ammunition made its way onto the set, a set of a movie where there should be no live ammunition. And so that has been the key question they're

trying to answer or trying to investigate.

And so they're looking at Hannah Gutierrez, the armorer, the person who was responsible for the safety of weapons on that set and all the firearms on

the set, as one of the key focuses. And the more we're learning about her and past incidents of this movie production, it's really very troubling.

We're hearing that earlier this month, there were two accident additional discharges on that set.


We're also hearing from people who worked with her before who said that there had been times when they felt unsafe. There were incidents occurring

while she served as the armorer.

Now that podcast interview that you mentioned is so incredible, because you hear in -- her in her own words basically questioning her own ability

saying that, look, this was a big job that I was set to do. The head armorer, she didn't know if she was up to the job. She eventually said that

she thought she was, but it was just interesting hearing her own calculus there. Take a listen to part of that interview.


HANNAH GUTIERREZ, GUN SUPERVISOR: I was really nervous about it at first and I almost didn't take the job because I wasn't sure if I was ready. But

doing it, like, it went really smoothly.


CAMPBELL: Went really smoothly in that end since. But again, we've heard others from other witnesses who had worked with her that there were

concerns. And, of course, when you look at her age as well, 24-year-old -- 24 years old, we're hearing from veteran armorers in the industry that you

need people with more experience.

Again, this is a very serious job, the person who's responsible for ensuring safety, particularly in a film like this. This was a Western that

involved lots of shootout scenes, lots of projectiles and, you know, explosions and things like that.

And so what we're hearing from these veterans is that you really want some on that job who's been doing it for a long time, who can assure the safety

of the cast members. Of course, a lot of questions being raised about her abilities that led to that incident.

KINKADE: Yes, certainly surprising to hear all those details that are emerging now about such a young person in charge of all the firearms on

set. I want to ask you about the latest on the investigation, because criminal charges is still not being rolled out. What is the sheriff telling


CAMPBELL: Well, what we're hearing is that these witnesses thus far in his words have been cooperative. There have been a lot of witnesses. There's

been a lot of evidence say they've had to gather from the movie set, which they've sent to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, the FBI, to try

to analyze, but when it comes down to some of these witnesses to include Hannah Gutierrez, as well as the assistant director on the set, the person

who handed Alec Baldwin that weapon, the sheriff says, that they want to bring them in for additional questioning. Take a listen to what he said.


ADAN MENDOZA, SANTA FE COUNTY SHERIFF: I think it's clear that a live round was discharged by the firearm based on the fact that it did kill Ms.

Hutchins and it wounded Mr. Souza. That round -- that projectile has been recovered.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Do you believe people are cooperating fully and truthfully to this point?

MENDOZA: Well, the focused individuals have given initial statements. But again, we'd like to get these people back and have some follow up



CAMPBELL: Now of interest, I just spoke to a law enforcement official just a short time ago who said that they still have not heard from Hannah

Gutierrez's attorney, you know, responding to their requests to bring her back in.

Interestingly, he said that detectives have been in direct communication with actor Alec Baldwin. Whenever they've had questions, follow up

questions, they'd call his number, he answers. He's been cooperative with them. But again, when it comes to Hannah Gutierrez and the other person,

the assistant director, authorities say that they want to bring them in. They yet -- just have not heard a response about what those witnesses will

come and take questions from detectives. Lynda.

KINKADE: All right. Josh Campbell for us. Good to have you covering that story for us from Santa Fe. Thanks so much.

Well, still to come tonight. U.S. health officials are trying to get Coronavirus shots available for children. But what is it going to take to

make that happen? We'll have a live report when we come back.



KINKADE: Russian President Vladimir Putin will be attending this weekend's G20 summit but only virtually. There is a lot to talk about. Leaders are,

of course, tackling COVID climate change and a host of other issues. International diplomatic editor Nic Robertson joins us now live from Rome.

And Nic, so there's only a lot to cover. U.S. president on his second international trip. And certainly, I want to know where you think he

stands, where the U.S. stands on the world stage and whether trust will be an issue given that we saw so many international agreements ripped up under

the last administration.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, so I think Biden is peeking through, stepping around some of the debris that he's created

since his last international outing at the G7 in the U.K., where it really was this is the return of democracy. This is the return of a stable United

States that has a good head on his shoulders when it comes to foreign policy. That was the message.

Then the intervening period have seen a couple of significant stumbles that have upset allies. He tried to reset and has it appears reset to some

degree, a diplomatic faux par major faux pas falling out with the French over their purchase of submarines. So all that account has made some

progress on Afghanistan, really yet to speak to some of the other allies who were disappointed by the rapid pullout so stepping around the debris


But that debris field, you know, since the G7, to this G20 is something of his creating, but it's the sort of build up to that in the past sort of

number of years, even going back before President, the chaos, if you will of President Trump's leadership, the international community has begun to

see that the United States is pivoting as it would -- as it has said towards China.

It is leaving its traditional allies in Europe somewhat behind, they are out of kilter and out of step with the United States when it comes to doing

business with China. And I think there's a real sense in the international community that the United States is not as an able flag-bearer of

international institutions and a reliable flag-bearer of international institutions as it once was. And that's highlighted also by the fact that

President Biden hasn't got his big spending bill approved, be -- in large part because of divisions with his own -- within his own Democratic Party.

And that that really raises the specter of potentially another Republican president in the next three years. And that raises the specter of would it

be would it be a president Trump himself or somebody of his ilk who would just pull out of international agreements again, so it's a different world

stage that President Biden is coming back to G7.

It was a positive message as a much more of a reality to it, but things can still be achieved. And as you said, President Putin won't be here.

President Xi won't be here. They'll give, you know, be connected virtually. But they won't be in the room with the other leaders and that does get

President Biden a small leg up here.

KINKADE: All right. We will continue these discussions over the coming weeks. Good to have you with us, as always, Nic Robertson, thanks so much.

We are expecting the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to green light the first Coronavirus vaccines for children soon. A federal health official

tells CNN that the FDA is expected to grant emergency authorization of the Pfizer vaccine for children aged 5 to 11. CNN's Senior Medical

Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me now. Elizabeth, what has to happen before we are going to see shots in the arms of young kids?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lynda, you know what, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the senior adviser to President Joseph Biden, he

says, you know what we could see -- he is optimistic that we could see in the United States shots going into young arms children ages 5 to 11 next

week or the week after so let's take a look at the timeline that would lead up to that.


We're expecting to hear today from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration about their decision. Will they be granting emergency use authorization to

Pfizer's application for children? The answer is expected to be yes. But of course, we are waiting to see what they say. Then next week on Tuesday and

Wednesday, vaccine advisers to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control, we'll be meeting.

They can be -- the shots shouldn't be going into arms until those advisers meet. And then after that, it's thought very soon after that the head of

the CDC, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, she will then be weighing in on what she thinks should happen. After that, that's when shots can go into arms. So

again, could be end of next week could be possibly the week after if everyone gives a thumbs up. Lynda.

KINKADE: Not long to go. And Elizabeth, there is a new study out from the CDC that finds that the vaccine is more effective than the immunity you'd

get if you're infected yet I often hear people say they'd rather take the risk and get infected with COVID Rather than take the vaccine. So just

explain what this latest data -- this study shows.

COHEN: So, you know, before we talk about the study, Lynda, I want to make a comment on what you just said about what you've heard people say, why in

the world, you would want to take the risk of getting COVID, which can land you in the hospital, which can kill you which, even if you survive it, you

could have brain fog and horrible medical problems for months and months and months, why you'd want to take that risk when you can take the risk of

a vaccine, which has, you know, very, very few if any side effects at all, for the vast majority of people, there's no side effects whatsoever, why

you'd want to take that risk is beyond me, unless you are -- have a death wish.

I mean, it just doesn't make any sense. Not only that, but this new study, along with studies that have preceded it, have shown that vaccination is

more effective at preventing bad outcomes from COVID-19. So for this study, they looked at folks from more than 150 hospitals in the U.S. and they

looked at who was at -- landing in the hospital with COVID and who wasn't, and what they found was that being vaccinated was five times more

protective against hospitalization than having had COVID.

In other words, if you got vaccinated, you were five times less likely to end up in the in the hospital with COVID compared to if you had had prior

COVID-19 infection. So again, vaccination wins over infection. So if you are infected, you should still get a vaccination and of course everyone

should get a vaccination. Lynda?

KINKADE: Absolutely, yes, the data that exists right now certainly is convincing. Elizabeth Cohen, good to have you with us. Thanks so much. We

are going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Stay with us. You're watching CNN.



KINKADE: Welcome back. Well, every day away from the spotlight, ordinary people are doing extraordinary things to make our world a better place. To

us, they are heroes and we honor them every year. Anderson Cooper has just announced the top 10 finalists for our 2021 CNN Heroes.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Anderson Cooper. This year, we celebrate a milestone, the 15th anniversary of CNN Heroes. For a decade and a half,

we've had the honor of introducing you to extraordinary everyday people who are changing the world. And in a time when we need kindness and courage

more than ever, we're thrilled to announce this year's top 10 CNN Heroes.

From Philadelphia, pediatric surgeon Ala Stanford saw COVID-19 ravaging communities of colors so she built trust and brought testing and

vaccinations to more than 75,000 people.

From San Francisco, David Flink is building understanding and confidence using his journey with ADHD and dyslexia to help kids with learning

differences across America thrive.

In New York City, Hector Guadalupe uses fitness training to help formerly incarcerated men and women like himself get family sustaining jobs and

build careers.

From Cartagena, Colombia, Jenifer Colpas brings eco-friendly energy, safe water, and sanitation to struggling Colombians living in remote areas.

Lynda Doughty of Phippsburg, Maine monitors 2,500 miles of coastline, providing lifesaving support and medical care to thousands of marine


From Bali, Indonesia, exchanging plastic waste for rice, restaurant owner Made Janur Yasa has sent tons of plastic for recycling and provided food to

thousands of families during the pandemic.

And in Simi Valley, California, Michele Neff Hernandez has turned her profound grief into sustaining support for the widow.

Oncologist Patricia Gordon walked away from her Beverly Hills private practice to save women around the world from dying of preventable and

treatable cervical cancer.

On LA's Skid Row, Shirley Raines brings dignity and respect to thousands of homeless people every week, rain or shine.

And in Maiduguri, Nigeria, Zannah Mustapha educates orphaned children from both sides of a violent extremist conflict, providing support to more than

2,000 boys and girls a year.

Congratulations to the top 10 CNN Heroes of 2021. Now, it's time for you to choose who inspires you the most. Who should be named CNN Hero of the Year

and receive $100,000 to continue their great work? Go to right now to vote. And be sure to watch the 15th annual CNN Heroes All Star

tribute as we announce the Hero of the Year and celebrate all this year's honorees live Sunday, December 12.


KINKADE: Well, thanks so much for watching tonight. I'm Lynda Kinkade. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS is up next. Have a great weekend.