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Hala Gorani Tonight
Tensions At The Poland-Belarus Border Remain High As Migrants Try To Cross; Europe On High Alert As COVID Cases Rise; South Africa's Last Apartheid President F.W. de Klerk Dies; Tensions Mount In Kyle Rittenhouse Trial; E.U. To Extend Sanctions On Belarus As Migrants Await Help; PSG Women's Player Released From Custody After Alleged Attack. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired November 11, 2021 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everybody, live from CNN in London, I'm HALA GORANI TONIGHT. We're live at the border between Poland
and Belarus where tensions remain high as migrants continue trying to cross. Also this hour, F.W. de Klerk; South Africa's last white president
who brought an end to apartheid has died. We speak to the head of the Nelson Mandela Foundation about his legacy.
And as COVID cases rise across Europe, are fresh lockdowns in this region on the horizon? The rhetoric is heating up with the misery along the
Polish-Belarusian border in what has become a dangerous test of political will. Poland says more than 450 migrants attempted to cross from Belarus in
the past day alone. They are starting to face freezing weather, insufficient food, insufficient water, problems with sanitation and medical
care. The U.N. Refugee Agency says the conditions there are, quote, "catastrophic".
But Poland and Belarus are hardening their positions. The European Union and the U.S. say they are preparing new sanctions against Belarus and
possibly against airlines suspected of ferrying the migrants there. The EU says soldiers are pushing them to the border. Belarus strongman Alexander
Lukashenko railed against the EU today, threatening to close a natural gas pipeline that runs through his country to Europe.
Belarus' close ally, Russia, is denying any involvement. But for a second day, Russian bombers flew over Belarus.
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GORANI: This is Warsaw where thousands of supporters of Poland's right-wing government marched in defiance of a court order. They marked Polish
Independence Day cheering Poland's border guards for, quote, "not letting anybody in". Our senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is
along that volatile border for us in the Polish town of Kuznica. And accusations still flying that Alexander Lukashenko is using these desperate
migrants as human paws to try to put pressure on the EU's borders.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right, Hala, that's exactly what is still going on. Certainly
the Polish government once again today made exactly those same accusations. And the Polish president came out and said that it was the Polish soldiers
who were here at the border who are defending not just Poland as he put it, but also the borders of the European Union as well.
And of course, the standoff continues, the rhetoric continues to heighten, at the same time, of course, you have thousands of people at that border
who are still caught in the middle, and their situation is deteriorating by the day as it also continues to get colder here in the border region.
Here's what we saw.
PLEITGEN (voice-over): Another day in limbo in the freezing cold, gathering any material that will burn to stay warm. Thousands of migrants remain
stranded on the Belarusian side of the border as Poland says it will not let them enter. Only a few have made it across like Youssef Atallah from
Syria who says he was abused by Belarusian border guards.
YOUSSEF ATALLAH, SYRIAN REFUGEE: When we came close to the Belarusian border, the Belarus guards catch us. They searched us and hit me in the
face, broke my cheeks here, and my nose, broke to piece, and i have painful ribs here. Then they took us to the forbidden area.
PLEITGEN: The forbidden area means the border between Belarus and Poland. Belarus denied abusing migrants and instead accused Poland of a heavy-
handed approach. The EU says it will further sanction Belarusian strongman Alexander Lukashenko, saying he's luring migrants here in a bid to
MATEUSZ MORAWIECKI, PRIME MINISTER, POLAND (through translator): Now from distance, those events on the Polish-Belarusian border may look like a
migration crisis. But this is not a migration crisis. It's a political crisis and calls for a specific purpose, for the purpose of destabilizing
the situation in the EU. So, what we're facing here and we have to state it fairly, is a manifestation of state terrorism.
PLEITGEN: Lukashenko is counting on support from his biggest backer, Russian President Vladimir Putin. Hailing Russia's strategic bombers that
flew over Belarus on Wednesday and threatening to cut off Russian gas supplies to Europe.
ALEXANDER LUKASHENKO, PRESIDENT, BELARUS (through translator): We are heating Europe, and they still threaten us with closing the border. And
what if we shut off natural gas there? I would therefore recommend that the leadership of Poland, Lithuania, and other headless people think before
PLEITGEN: The migrants are caught in the middle of this standoff, unable to advance into the EU or head back to their countries of origin.
(on camera): The situation of those camped out at the border between Poland and Belarus is growing more desperate by the day. It's extremely cold and
damp out here with the temperatures dropping below freezing virtually every night.
(voice-over): Activist Piotr Bystrianin tries to help them, showing the clothes, food and water he tries to supply them with.
PIOTR BYSTRIANIN, PRESIDENT, OCALENIE FOUNDATION: People are deteriorating very fast. They are more exhausted. They -- some of them are sometimes one
week or two weeks or even longer only in the forest without proper food, without any drinking water.
PLEITGEN: Poland says it has registered more than 4,000 attempts to illegally cross its border in November alone, but says it will not back
PLEITGEN: And Hala, the situation obviously shows absolutely no signs of ending any time soon. You can see that camp that's on the other side of the
border on the Belarusian side, seems to be growing bigger by the day, and certainly the conditions there seem to be getting worse. People now
scampering to try and find anything they can that they can set a light just to be able to get a little bit of warmth, also food, water, medical care,
all those things very much in short supply.
The Polish, for their part, say that they are going to remain tough on this. And you know, we've been talking about in the past couple of days,
the reason why I'm standing right here right now about 2 kilometers away from the border is that Poland has declared what's behind me to be an
emergency zone where no media is allowed into, no NGOs are allowed into as well, and of course, that's where they say they set up that razor wire
fence and say they are not going to let anybody pass through there and get into the European Union, Hala.
GORANI: Wow, it's 2021, 2,000 people stranded in a forest, no food, no water, kids among them. We'll keep our eye on this situation and the rising
tensions between Belarus and its neighbors. And we'll have more on the border crisis in just a few minutes. Thanks very much Fred for that report.
Belarusian opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya will join us live, she's in Berlin, my conversation with her is coming up in about half an
hour, so do stay with us.
To our other story this evening, the last white president of South Africa has died today. F.W. de Klerk passed away at his home after about a battle
with cancer. He was 85. De Klerk shared a Nobel Peace Prize with Nelson Mandela after freeing the anti-apartheid leader from prison. He was South
Africa's last leader under apartheid, and ultimately ratified a new constitution that ended decades of racial segregation. David McKenzie looks
back at his complex legacy.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): F.W. de Klerk helped end generations of white minority rule in South Africa.
FREDERIK WILLEM DE KLERK, FORMER DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF SOUTH AFRICA: A new democratic dispensation is foreseen with full political rights for all
MCKENZIE: But earlier in his career, there was little hint of anything revolutionary. A deeply conservative de Klerk rose through the ranks of the
national party during the most draconian periods of racist apartheid rule.
DE KLERK: Nearly, speaker --
MCKENZIE: Then as president on February 2nd, 1990.
DE KLERK: The government has taken a firm decision to release Mr. Mandela on condition. We learned that in a place which was morally unjustifiable.
And I came to the realization I cannot move the security of my people on the basis of injustice towards a majority of all the people.
MCKENZIE: Some of his people Afrikaana South Africans called de Klerk a traitor for releasing Nelson Mandela. But South Africa's painstakingly
negotiated democratic transition helped stave what many saw as inevitable civil war.
DE KLERK: It was only in South Africa when we negotiate and when Mandela sat across me and said, I will try to understand your concerns. You cannot
diffuse tension unless the parties to the conflict start talking to each other.
MCKENZIE: De Klerk would jointly win the Nobel Peace Prize with Mandela, a move criticized by many.
And served as deputy president for a time. But the last white president of South Africa once called apartheid a developmental policy, only truly
repudiating it after an outcry. Some South Africans felt that he had little moral authority to criticize a democratically-elected government as he
frequently did. Over the years, Mandela and de Klerk developed a strong, mutual respect, even friendship. A symbol that de Klerk said represented
what could be possible in a country with such a painful past.
GORANI: David McKenzie there reporting a complicated life. And we want to look further into F.W. de Klerk's legacy later this hour. I'll be speaking
to the CEO of the Nelson Mandela Foundation Sello Hatang in about 20 minutes. To COVID now, nobody has an appetite to go back into lockdown, but
cases are soaring across Europe. In Ireland, health officials are asking people to cut their social contacts in half this week without any official
mandates. So it's up to people to decide.
The country recorded its third highest-ever case count this past week and is seeing more new infections than countries which have very low
vaccination rates. Today, Germany reported more than 50,000 new cases in 24 hours. That is an all-time high. The seven-day average is rising as well.
Germany's vice chancellor and likely next chancellor says it's time to tighten restrictions again. Scott McLean joins me now live from London with
Talk to us a little bit about these hot spots, what's going on and will we have more lockdowns going into the Christmas season?
SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hala, can you believe it has been almost one year since the first vaccinations went into arms in Europe? But it's
getting the headlines on this continent, you would not know it given that there are so much talk about tightening existing restrictions and even
making new ones and even a little bit of talk about potentially lockdowns as well. Something obviously nobody wants to hear. Germany is in that
category of sort of tightening the restrictions that they have already.
It just recorded its highest number of new COVID infections, not recently, but since the beginning of the pandemic, which is wild to think about. The
chancellor says it's pretty simple, there just are not enough Germans that are vaccinated right now, and so the virus can easily spread, given that
one-third of the population has little or no immunity from the virus at all. As a result, some German states are sort of making restrictions
So, right now, for instance in Berlin, you can go to a restaurant, cafe, movie theater, that type of thing if you can show proof of vaccination,
proof of natural immunity from having had the virus before or a negative test. But Berlin as of Monday says that negative test is no longer going to
be good enough.
And other German states are following suit or deciding whether or not to follow suit. You mentioned the vice chancellor, he wants to see that system
across the country, and this is particularly significant, Hala, because Germany has always said that, look, it wants to make sure that it's not
discriminating or it doesn't want to discriminate against people who choose not to get the vaccine. And it does that by giving them the option of
having that negative test instead.
But given the situation in Germany and given how quickly cases are rising, and given that there's some pressure on the healthcare system, it seems
like politicians in that country are sort of reaching for whatever lever they can find to try to right the ship.
There is undoubtedly an east-west divide in Germany, things in some eastern German states are undoubtedly worse, vaccinations are even lower. And even
if you look at the entire continent, there is also an east-west divide. Yes, things are getting bad in Germany, but they are much worse in places
like Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania.
Still, some other western countries are going even further. We're talking about the Netherlands where an expert panel has recommended to the
government that they bring back a partial lockdown, closing theaters, restaurants, that type of thing. No decisions on that are going to be made
until tomorrow. And this is really wild one, Hala, according to "Reuters", at least, Austria, well, they right now are at about 20 percent ICU
capacity filled by COVID patients. And once that threshold hits 30 percent of beds --
GORANI: Right --
MCLEAN: Occupied by COVID patients, well, they will have a lockdown, but only for the unvaccinated. And we're not talking about lockdown like you
can't go to the theater or the restaurant, they've already done that. We're talking lockdown like at the height of the pandemic, like stay home unless
you have to go to work, unless you have to shop for medicine, food, that kind of thing. So --
GORANI: Right --
MCLEAN: You know, pretty draconian situation potentially in Europe right now for a lot of countries.
GORANI: Well, we're seeing bad numbers in countries where there's a higher proportion of unvaccinated people.
We see it on every graph that we study across the region, and obviously, officials are doing their best to try to convince people to get jab. Thanks
so much, Scott McLean, is live in London. And still to come tonight, Ethiopia is detaining hundreds of people under its state of emergency,
including some United Nations staff members. We ask how the government is justifying those arrests or whether it does that at all. I speak to a
United Nations spokesperson about that. We'll be right back.
GORANI: The U.N. is telling Ethiopian officials release our detained employees. Nine staff members and at least 70 contract workers have been
arrested since Ethiopia declared a state of emergency, and there have been reports that the Ethiopian government has been rounding up Tigrayan
nationals. Stephane Dujarric is the spokesperson for the U.N. Secretary- General, he joins me now from the United Nations. Stefan, thanks very much for being with us. So, how many -- did I get that number right? How many
U.N. staff members are still detained in Ethiopia?
STEPHANE DUJARRIC, SPOKESPERSON, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Yes, we have nine of our colleagues who remain under detention in various police facilities
around Addis, and more than 70 truck drivers who have been contracted out by the U.N. and international organizations to drive food into Tigray, have
also been detained. And we have been working with the government, in contact with them at various levels to try to get their release as quickly
GORANI: And I know that there was a larger number detained, some have been released. What's the last you've heard from government officials on whether
or not they're planning on letting these people go, these --
DUJARRIC: Well --
GORANI: U.N. staff go?
DUJARRIC: It's unclear. We've not been given a time as to when people will be released. We've frankly not been given any clear explanation as to why
these people have been detained without charge by the authorities. But I think, you know, this is -- this is one issue we're obviously dealing with.
But the broader issue is that there is a humanitarian catastrophe going on in Ethiopia, notably in the north where 7 million people need aid.
And we are just not being able to deliver the aid that people desperately need. And by putting U.N. staff in detention, by putting truck drivers who
are driving aid in detention, we are going backwards instead of forwards.
GORANI: And I'm going to get to that humanitarian disaster in just a moment. One last question on the detained staff members. Are they
DUJARRIC: You know, for us, they're Ethiopians who work for the United Nations.
GORANI: Yes --
DUJARRIC: We don't classify people by ethnicity who work for us in -- at the U.N. in Ethiopia. We don't know why they're being detained, we want
them -- we want them released as quickly as possible. We want to see our colleagues go free. We want to see the truck drivers go free so they can
get back into these trucks and try to get the aid into Tigray where it's so desperately needed.
GORANI: Sure, and I'm only asking that question because of the reports that the government has been rounding up ethnic Tigrayans, not to single them
out in any other way. And let's talk a little bit about the humanitarian catastrophe.
As you mentioned, we're talking famine, dire conditions for millions of people. And you're saying it's increasingly difficult to get the aid to
those who need it in that part of the country, especially the north of Ethiopia. Could you expand on that?
DUJARRIC: I mean, we haven't been able to get any trucks into Tigray since about the end of October, I think around October 20th. So, there is a
desperate need of fuel because you need fuel to distribute food, there's a desperate need of food itself, health supplies.
There's a need for cash. The economy has almost gone dry. So, all these things -- I mean, and of course, the food to feed people, but everything
else that we need to actually activate a major humanitarian operation is in desperate need.
Despite that, we still have -- we have about 200 of our colleagues and other humanitarian workers who are in Tigray standing and delivering and
trying to do their best to help. And if you allow me just to give you a bit of a scale. About two weeks ago, we were able to deliver food to about
120,000 people, when in previous time, we were able to reach about 800,000 people during the same period. So it just shows you how much the supplies
themselves are dwindling.
GORANI: So what's going on? Is the government blocking access?
DUJARRIC: There is conflict. All the parties involved are -- to put it very mildly, being unhelpful. There are blockades, whether those are blockades
manned with people with guns or administrative blockades, administrative procedures, the point is that we need to see an end to the fighting so we
can help the people that need it. We are engaged with the government, Martin Griffiths; our humanitarian chief was in Mek'ele a few days ago,
then in Addis.
We are trying to move the process forward, but it's not really moving in the direction we'd like to see and that the people needed to see.
GORANI: But you're saying no trucks have made it into that region since end of October, correct?
DUJARRIC: No --
GORANI: I mean --
DUJARRIC: That's right. No U.N. trucks, no U.N. convoys have made it in. We have -- to give you a scale, we have about 300 trucks, big semis that you
see on the highways everywhere --
GORANI: Yes --
DUJARRIC: Waiting in Amhara to get into Mek'ele, into Tigray.
GORANI: But they're loaded with --
DUJARRIC: But they've not been able to move.
GORANI: They're loaded with I presume food, medical supplies, medicine, that type of thing. So, what's the situation --
DUJARRIC: And fuel --
GORANI: On the ground?
DUJARRIC: And fuel.
GORANI: And fuel. So, yes --
DUJARRIC: The situation on the ground is dire. There is just a desperate need for food, desperate need for medicine. We're also seeing a very
disturbing increase in sexually-based violence --
GORANI: Yes --
DUJARRIC: Against women and girls, both in Tigray and in other regions in Amhara where we've also seen fighting And that is just one more thing that
just needs to stop.
GORANI: Well, thank you so much Stephane Dujarric; the spokesperson for the U.N. Secretary-General joining us from New York with more on really just an
DUJARRIC: Thank you --
GORANI: Tragic situation there in Ethiopia. And hopefully, the U.N. staff members will be released and the aid will be able to once again make its
way into that region where so many people need it. Thanks very much.
DUJARRIC: Thank you, Hala, thank you.
GORANI: All right, the COP26 Climate Summit is supposed to end Friday, but with so many fights going on, especially over coal and fossil fuels, who
knows if it will actually wrap up on time. A group of 22 nations now wants to remove an entire section from the final deal. Countries that export
fossil fuels like Saudi Arabia are part of this group as well as India and China.
But Wednesday, China also made a surprise announcement with the U.S., a joint promise to cut emissions. CNN's Phil Black joins me live from Glasgow
with more. So, we were discussing that draft text a few days ago, but it seems as though perhaps that will not be what the final version and the
final communique looks like.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, these things always change, sometimes they're weakened so rarely I guess you could say, they are strengthened.
But this is a really significant piece of pressure on some key text in the draft. It relates to the section of the draft that lays out what is at
stake very clearly, and then lays out next steps for countries to take and the hope of trying to keep key goals alive and viable.
This is the section that says the goal must still be 1.5 degrees of average increasing global warming. And to do that, he calls on countries to come
back next year with even more ambitious targets to try and achieve that. The reason why it specifically says next year in the short term, it's
because the science, which is also in the text, points to the fact that in order to achieve 1.5 degrees, you have to cut emissions globally by 45
percent by the end of this decade, by 2030.
So, the clock is really ticking on this. There is a tremendous sense of urgency. And if you wait five years as the existing rules would suggest for
countries to come back with new targets, it would simply be too late. So, it is not an overstatement to say the entire process hangs on the specific
wording of this text. The countries that are objecting to it, 22 countries from a group called the like-minded developing countries including India,
including China, these are key players, significant polluters.
They say they don't like the language because they believe it shifts responsibility for the problem from developed countries to developing
countries. Now, this is an old rift, an old line of division at these climate talks between the rich and the poorer or the developing countries.
And it is not unusual that this would surface at this point.
But it is extreme to call for all of that text to be removed. It is possibly just a negotiating ploy. But it has to be there in some form,
activists say, analysts say, because without it, the COP process itself, the Paris Agreement, its future is unclear and the whole thing could
effectively be dead, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Phil Black, thanks very much, live in Glasgow. Still to come, the legacy of South Africa's last apartheid leader, F.W. de Klerk
helped end the policy, but his opinion seemed conflicted until the end. The CEO of the Nelson Mandela Foundation will join me next. And the defense
pushes for a mistrial in the case of an American teenager who shot and killed protesters. See the fiery moments in court as he took the stand.
We'll be right back.
GORANI: Let's return now to the complex legacy of F.W. de Klerk, South Africa's last white apartheid president, the man who freed Nelson Mandela
and helped end decades of racial segregation. He has passed away at the age of 85.
Sello Hatang is the CEO of the Nelson Mandela Foundation and he joins me now live from Johannesburg.
Thank you for joining us. First, the legacy of F.W. de Klerk, he's passed away at 85.
What do you think it will be?
How will history remember him?
SELLO HATANG, CEO, NELSON MANDELA FOUNDATION: Thank you very much, Hala. I think, let me start off by passing our deepest condolences to the family
and friends of F.W. de Klerk.
I think he's one of the figures that will be remembered as one whose history was really complex, one who tried his best to bring about
democracy, contradicted himself through part of the transition period but one who, as the curtains were coming down, he also emphasized that he
And I think it's a legacy that all of us should look back at and think to ourselves what can we learn from it and try to build from wherever those
blemishes that we can try deal with and then try rebuild a country that (INAUDIBLE) off.
GORANI: I want our viewers to hear some of his last words, apologizing for the pain that apartheid caused people of color in South Africa. This is how
he put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
F.W. DE KLERK, FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN PRESIDENT: Let me today, in this last message, repeat, I, without qualification, apologize for the pain and the
hurt and the indignity and the damage that apartheid has done to Black, Brown and Indians in South Africa.
I do so not only in my capacity as the former leader of the National Party but also as an individual.
Allow me in this last message to share with you the fact that, since the early '80s, my views changed completely. It was as if I had a conversion
and, in my heart of hearts, realized that apartheid was wrong. I realized that we had arrived at a place which was morally unjustifiable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: How do these apologies play out, especially among Black South Africans?
HATANG: Look, if the -- if really (INAUDIBLE) big will bring about division. And there are people who still now -- I was looking online
earlier on -- who still think that the apology was too late, that Mr. de Klerk could've done more earlier on.
But there are also people who say that that was sincere, late as it was. But it was sincere and that, if we are to build a country that is looking
at its own history with all its complexity, that we'll then try and deal with this as one of those moments in history, where we should be reflecting
on our history as a country but saying, how do we make sure that we build on, on the history that he and Madiba shared.
HATANG: Just to say that we shared earlier on a quote from Nelson Mandela on the 70th anniversary or the birthday of F.W. de Klerk, who said
something, and I paraphrase, that we as old people have always tried our best to build a South Africa that we dream of, that we've had our
differences but that we never let those differences look over the dignity and respect that we both enjoyed.
And I think it's a moment like this that dignity and respect should also reign supreme as we try and look at a history that was really complex, a
legacy that's so complex as (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: And you're talking about the differences -- and that was going to be my next question because F.W. de Klerk and Nelson Mandela, of course,
they shared a Nobel Peace Prize but they certainly had major disagreements. I mean, Nelson Mandela was critical of F.W. de Klerk in many ways as well.
How did they get along personally?
Because they were able to put the differences aside but they still were at odds, in many ways.
HATANG: I think maybe for South Africa, it's a moment like this, where I keep emphasizing that we need to be reflective and that we need to be
reckoning with the kind of history that we are left with, legacies that we are left with.
And I think part of that is the difficult relationship that the two of them had. You would remember a moment, where in 1993 and 1994, just before the
elections, where they were head-butting seriously.
But then you also saw them hold hands tightly when the need arose that they should do so. When Mr. De Klerk left the government of national unity, it
pained Madiba that he did so. And it was also a moment that we look back at and we think, it could've been a moment where he could have been the hero
who unites Black and white.
And him leaving the government also had a huge impact on it. But later in their lives, they also had a very beautiful relationship, by the way. And I
think it was something that we can learn from, that, despite your differences -- in South Africa particularly now -- we need that kind of
lesson that they lived through.
That at a point like where we are now, where we have a fractured society, one that looks at difference more than it does at similarities, that we
need to find a common purpose that says, how do we rebuild and keep building on what was put forward by these two leaders.
GORANI: Yes, it's a wonderful, wonderful thought and a hope for the future for the people of South Africa and, indeed, for people everywhere around
the world. We are experiencing so many divisions in so many countries. Sello Hatang, thank you so much for joining us on this day, reflecting on
the legacy of F.W. de Klerk. We really appreciate it.
HATANG: Thank you very much.
GORANI: In the United States, final witnesses are preparing to take the stand in the case of a person charged with murdering protesters after days
of tense, emotionally-charged testimony.
Kyle Rittenhouse is charged with killing two men during a night of demonstrations, Black Lives Matter demonstrations, against racial injustice
in Wisconsin. His attorneys are now calling for a mistrial after the judge slammed prosecutors for defying a court ruling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE BRUCE SCHROEDER, KENOSHA COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: That's basic law, it's been basic law in this country for 40 years, 50 years. I have no idea why
you would do something like that. Don't get brazen with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the jury has been asked to leave several times throughout the trial so the judge could address the prosecutor's behavior. Live to
Kenosha, Wisconsin, Shimon Prokupecz joins us now.
What's the latest on the trial right now?
Where are we in the timeline of the trial?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: So it looks like they may be calling their last defense witness; it's still unclear. We thought maybe
one of the other defense witnesses would be coming back. But they may be wrapping up here.
They've called three witnesses. That's all that was left. They needed three more witnesses. They are now on that third witness. So we could be seeing
the defense wrap up their case.
And then perhaps maybe the prosecutor will have a rebuttal of a couple of witnesses. But the big expectation right now is that both sides rest their
cases, respective cases, and then we can start seeing closing arguments tomorrow, which would kind of mean that deliberations will probably start
We still have yet to figure out the entire schedule. The judge hasn't been entirely clear on the schedule. He himself has been somewhat confused. So
hopefully soon, we will know. But certainly things are winding down and things will probably be wrapping up tomorrow.
GORANI: And the defense is calling for a mistrial, based on what they say is prosecutorial misconduct?
PROKUPECZ: Yes, so this was this tense moment from yesterday during the cross-examination by the prosecutor of Kyle Rittenhouse, who took the
stand. And they started asking him questions about indicating that he didn't speak or didn't say things before the trial.
And the judge felt that they crossed the line because it was violated his right to remain silent. And, so, the judge just exploded on the prosecutor,
as you saw in that video. And, so, we came back from a break.
And the defense attorney, not only did he call for a mistrial, he asked that there would be a mistrial with prejudice, which would mean that the
case would be over. The judge would call the mistrial and then prevent the prosecutor from bringing the case back.
So far, no word on where that stands. We had thought that maybe the defense attorneys would file motions, paper motions, with the court, seeking that.
That has not happened yet. So perhaps -- maybe, again, things are kind of fluid here right now. Maybe we'll get more word on that by the end of the
GORANI: All right, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you very much in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
Still to come tonight, cold, hungry and desperate to move on. Migrants stranded on the Belarusian-Polish border. I'll speak with Belarus'
opposition leader. She's live in Berlin. She'll be joining us, next.
GORANI: So we've been covering the tense situation at the border between Belarus and Poland.
And this just into CNN. Iraq says it will order an evacuation flight from Belarus to bring home any of its citizens who are stranded on the border
And thousands of migrants, as we've been reporting, mostly from the Middle East, have been stranded in horrific conditions, makeshift camps. Some of
the people stranded there are small children. They are building fires to stay warm.
The E.U. is preparing new sanctions against the Belarusian government, accusing it of simply manufacturing this crisis, of ferrying these migrants
to the border to put pressure on the E.U.
The authoritarian leader of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, is threatening right back, saying he'll cut off the gas supply to the E.U.
Joining me now from Berlin is the Belarusian opposition leader, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya.
GORANI: She ran against Lukashenko in last year's presidential election. She is now living and working in exile.
Thank you very much for joining us. You believe Alexander Lukashenko is using these migrants, these desperate migrants, as human pawns to try to
put pressure on the European Union.
You believe he is doing this cynically and willfully?
SVIATLANA TSIKHANOUSKAYA, BELARUS OPPOSITION LEADER: Absolutely. This migration crisis on the border is state or regime orchestrated crisis. And
it is done by the regime, first of all, to make Europe communicate to him.
He is not recognized as legitimate leader after fraudulent elections. But he needs this recognition. And he wants to show that, look, talk to me and
I will solve this crisis. I created it and I will solve.
The other point is that regime wants to shift the focus from humanitarian catastrophe in our country from political crisis and lawlessness in Belarus
to a migration crisis. For world starts talking about prisoners in Belarusian prisons but us talking about migrants.
And one more step is that he wants to split Europe. There is absolute consensus about the political situation in Belarus. But there are argues
about how Europe should treat migrants.
GORANI: So there are already sanctions leveled at Belarus. They haven't worked so far. You support additional sanctions.
Why do you think they would be effective when others have not?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: No. I have to say that, first, real sanctions have been imposed only in June after hijacking Ryanair flight. And it's very
(INAUDIBLE) to say that sanctions are not working.
There are a lot of loopholes have been lift after -- for the package of sanctions (ph). And we are sure that this regime understands only the
language of power. And we think that only sanctions on economy of our state-owned enterprises will make a difference for this regime.
And on the 9th of December, American sanctions start working. So we'll see how it influence the situation in Belarus. And this escalation of migration
crisis is in response to the fear that regime feels at the moment.
GORANI: And the Polish prime minister said Turkey was helping Belarus, that it was organizing flights to bring migrants to Minsk.
Do you believe that's happening?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: I think that any airport or any country can be used in the smuggling of people, smuggling of migrants. And charter air flights can be
hired to bring poor people from different countries. So we can't blame, from our side, any separate country. The only person who is guilty in this
GORANI: What about Russia, though?
Russia says it's got nothing to do with any of this. But we know that Vladimir Putin is a big supporter of Alexander Lukashenko.
What do you think their role is in all of this?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: I don't think he's a big supporter of this regime. The situation in Belarus, on the one hand, is convenient for Kremlin because
Lukashenko now is weak as never before and they can take it as advantage for, I don't know, for buying (ph) our enterprises or whatsoever.
But regime is becoming too costly for the Kremlin to support economically and politically, diplomatically. And you know, we don't know if Kremlin is
tendered (ph) behind of this we -- or this migration crisis. We don't have evidences. But they are looking silently on what's happening.
But they could play constructive role in the resolution of political crisis in Belarus.
GORANI: So in order to solve this crisis, you would need Lukashenko to make a U-turn and to allow these migrants to come back to wherever they were
bused in from, usually Minsk, in order to then board flights to go back to the countries that they flew out of.
Do you think that's realistic?
Or do you think he'll continue to use them as -- to weaponize these human beings at the border with Poland?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: For sure, regime has, you know, heartless and cruel. And they will continue to use migrants as fodder to put pressure on the
But I think that a strong and principled position of Europe will make this regime to start negotiation with Belarusians, not with, like, Europe. And
there can be other ways out of this situation, like communication with the countries of origin of those people, like stop giving visas to people and
GORANI: A quick last one on your meetings today in Germany. You met with the German president. You met also with the vice chancellor, who some
believe will be the next chancellor, Olaf Scholz.
What did they tell you about what they think should happen, the way forward to put pressure on Belarus?
TSIKHANOUSKAYA: No, I have seen -- I saw in a principled position of all the parties of coalition of Mr. President of Germany that they will not
allow dictator to blackmail Germany or Europe at all.
And they are not going to have any kind of conversation or dialogue with Lukashenko while their demands or society will be fulfilled, release of
political prisoners, stop violence in our country and dial up (ph) with people.
And I all the time underlying here in the Germany that solve (ph) will, for example, migration crisis will not solve political crisis in Belarus. And
this political crisis is the core of the problem. A solve of (ph) political crisis will solve all the simultaneous (ph) problems we have at the moment.
GORANI: All right, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, thank you very much, the Belarusian opposition leader, who's currently in Berlin, joining us live.
We really appreciate it. Thank you.
And, still to come, tonight, a Paris Saint-Germain player is reportedly released from custody. We'll explain the case that has shocked the football
world -- next.
GORANI: Our affiliate, BFMTV, is reporting that Paris Saint-Germain midfielder Aminata Diallo has just been released from custody following an
alleged attack on her teammate.
According to "The New York Times," Kheira Hamraoui was pulled from a car and beaten on her legs with metal bars. She didn't suffer, apparently, any
broken bones in her legs. Cyril Vanier is in Paris for us.
And Diallo was held in connection with this attack. Tell us more.
CYRIL VANIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Look, this is a story about two teammates on the Paris Saint-Germain women's team. We're not talking
about Lionel Messi; no, this is the women's team, two teammates who played the same position for club and country.
And what happened raised questions about a possible football rivalry gone very, very wrong because of that brutal attack that you described on
midfielder Kheira Hamraoui last week.
Now that story took a strange turn yesterday morning, when Aminata Diallo, reportedly her friend but also her teammate and rival on the team, was
arrested in connection with that attack.
Now she has just been released, Hala; that means that investigators do not have enough information, do not have enough evidence to press charges
And the French media have reported, especially the French news daily, "L'Equipe," which was the first to break this story, has reported that she
repeatedly denied any involvement in the attack while she was being questioned by investigators. So at this stage, the mystery remains intact.
Who attacked Kheira Hamraoui a week ago?
Because those assailants have not been found.
And what was their motive?
PSG has a very important game coming up on Sunday. We don't know, at this stage, whether either Diallo or Hamraoui will be on the pitch.
GORANI: OK. So we have 30 seconds.
But they were driving in the same car when Hamraoui was pulled out and beaten up, right?
VANIER: Yes, those are the reports. And mysteriously, Diallo was not beaten and nothing was stolen from Hamraoui. So the targeted nature of the attack
is what raised the suspicions that maybe Diallo was part of some plot to have her friend -- but rival -- beaten.
But there is nothing to credit that hypothesis at the moment; at least investigators don't think so, at least not now.
GORANI: All right, thanks very much, Cyril Vanier live in Paris.
I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks to all of you for watching. Do stay with CNN. We're going to take a quick break. And on the other side, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS"
is coming your way.