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Hala Gorani Tonight
Ukraine Warns Residents Living In The Eastern Parts Of Ukraine To Evacuate; Rescuers Dig For Bodies In Borodyanka; United Nations General Assembly Suspends Russia From Human Rights Council; Kremlin Slams Sanctions On Putin's Daughters; Putin's Strategy To Weaponize Refugees; Turkey Transfers Jamal Khashoggi Murder Trial To Saudi Arabia; Speaking To Ukrainians Forcibly Deported To Russia. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 07, 2022 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:00:00]
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the program, I'm Michael Holmes at the CNN Center. Let's get straight to
our top story now. Ukrainian officials warn this could be the last chance for residents in the east of the country to save themselves and their
families from the next phase of Russia's brutal war.
Russian forces are escalating attacks in the Donbas and Kharkiv regions ahead of what could be a massive assault. The top U.S. General says NATO
members have given Ukraine roughly 85,000 anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons so far. But Ukraine's foreign minister says they need more and time
is running out to deliver them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMYTRO KULEBA, FOREIGN MINISTER, UKRAINE: The battles for Donbas will remind you second World War with large operations, maneuvers, involvement
of thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, planes, artillery. This will not be a local operation based on what we see in Russia's preparations to it.
Either you help us now -- and I'm speaking about days, not weeks or your help will come too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: A Ukrainian commander tells CNN, Russian forces are trying to wipe Mariupol, quote, "off the face of the earth" That city, of course, has been
surrounded for 40 days now, under relentless attack. And just a short time ago, Ukraine's prosecutor general gave a disturbing update on Borodyanka,
saying dozens more bodies are being discovered under the rubble of two buildings. That town and other suburbs of Kyiv were ravaged by Russian
forces before they withdrew.
The Kremlin is now making a rare admission of its own setbacks, its chief spokesman says Russia has lost what he called a significant number of
troops, calling that a tragedy. And today, the U.N. General Assembly taking an extraordinary step, it just voted to suspend Russia from the Human
Rights Council.
The draft resolution says the council has quote, "grave concerns" after reports that Russia has committed, again, quoting here, "gross and systemic
human rights abuses in Ukraine". But Russia calling that vote illegitimate and politically-motivated, and earlier, blaming the U.S. for spearheading
it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENNADY KUZMIN, DEPUTY RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: What we're seeing today is an attempt by the United States to maintain its dominant position
and total control to continue its attempt at human rights colonialism in international relations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: But Ukraine's ambassador said it is a simple matter of right and wrong, life and death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIY KYSLYTSYA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: In a couple of minutes, you will have a chance to prove that you are not an indifferent
bystander. All you need to do is to press the yes button. And to save the Human Rights Council and many lives around the world and in Ukraine. On the
other hand, pressing no means pulling a trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Meanwhile, NATO foreign ministers meeting in Brussels have agreed to give more financial and humanitarian support to Ukraine. Let's talk
about all of this with our Nic Robertson who's standing by in Brussels. And Nic, let's start with NATO. The Ukrainian foreign minister said his
priority list was weapons, and made clear the urgency of delivery of those weapons. What did he get from the NATO foreign ministers.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: What he got behind closed doors is probably different to what we got in public. What the NATO
Secretary-General, what the U.S. Secretary of State, Antony Blinken wouldn't say was precisely what they were giving. They did say that they
were going to keep up the commitments, they did say that they were giving the Ukrainian army the material that they needed.
There was talk about javelins by Secretary of State Antony Blinken, the United States of course been given them very important in taking out tanks
and armored vehicles. But we know that Ukraine recognizes that it's fighting essentially a bigger and newer offensive by the Russians in the
east of the country, and I think Mariupol is a very clear example of what we heard. You know, we know that Russia doesn't have the troops and
capacity to control all population centers in the country.
[14:05:00]
So, Mariupol becomes an example perhaps of what it could look like going forward where the place is so destroyed, people can't go back there and
live. Russia doesn't need so many troops to keep control of it, so the Ukrainians are fighting to -- here to keep control of these cities, to stop
them being destroyed.
And NATO isn't really giving big clues as to how they're going to support them to do that. A couple of days ago for example, there was talk here
among NATO officials about supplying tanks, about supplying armored vehicles, that wasn't the narrative coming out of NATO Secretary-General
Jens Stoltenberg.
He just stayed away from specifics, perhaps not to give tactical advantage to the Russians, perhaps so as not to build up further tensions between
NATO and Russia, not clear, but the Ukrainian foreign minister perhaps getting much better insights behind closed doors than we have at this
moment. Michael.
HOLMES: Yes, great point. Let's switch to the U.N., some passionate speeches there, and afterwards that vote to suspend Russia from the Human
Rights Council. What is your take? Is that meaningfully effective or significant or ultimately perhaps more symbolic?
ROBERTSON: It puts President Putin on the path to becoming an international pariah. He takes pride in the big positions that Russia has,
and you know, has strived for, in international bodies. He sees that as a sign of prestige, he sees that as a sign that Russia is a big nation among
other big nations. So, this is a blow to his prestige, his pride, to -- it sets him on a path to isolation. Is it going to change the battle on the
ground? That seems unlikely, but he is going to look at this.
We know that Russia was pressuring nations it thought were friendly to it, not to abstain because that vote counts for nothing, but to vote for them.
So, it was 93-93 that voted essentially against Russia, 24 that voted for Russia, 58 that abstained. One of those that abstained is India. That's a
country that has strong defense ties with Russia, it gets about 75 percent or 70 percent of its weapons from Russia.
And if you think about it, just a couple of days ago, Foreign Minister Lavrov, Sergey Lavrov; the Russian Foreign Minister went to India the same
day as Liz Truss, the British Foreign Secretary went to India, obviously, both pitching their sides. So, here's a country that Russia might have
looked to, to come out and support it, and it didn't. So Russia, and Putin here in particular we think about, really is getting a shock statement on
how isolated he's becoming, not just by sanctions, but on the international community.
Again, it may not change what he's doing in Ukraine right now, but it certainly will be a message that will resonate around the cadre that are
close to him. That -- and it's a signal.
HOLMES: Yes, that's a fascinating point about India, how countries voted or in some cases didn't vote is a really interesting aspect of this. Nic
Robertson, always good to have you on, thanks so much for that. I want to turn now to Ukraine, we're joined from there by CNN's chief international
anchor, Christiane Amanpour in Kyiv. Good to see you, Christiane. In Brussels, we did hear the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba said that the
battle for the Donbas is underway, and said it has not reached its maximum scale.
You have the NATO Secretary-General, Stoltenberg saying, he too expects a big battle in the east, we're seeing residents fleeing. How do you see
what's unfolding in the east, and what might be to come?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, look, if NATO sees that this is about to happen, they really do need to get use of this
window of opportunity in maximum time right now and for maximum gain. Because what the Ukrainian foreign minister has said as you've been
reporting that, you know, before it was kind of what weapons are you going to give us, now it is when are you going to deliver these weapons?
They need that help, and now is a very important period of time, as Russians are sort of regrouping, yes, they've started in the Donbas. But
Ukraine has really shown its efforts have been successful in many parts of the country, and they need those weapons to defend themselves right now.
That is the message from Ukraine. From here, we've heard from military commanders that it's going to be a fierce fight. I think -- I think we all
know that. That it is what Russia has redirected its entire effort towards, at least for now.
And so it really does need to show something, presumably for this whole last six weeks of an adventure that created so much havoc, so much mayhem,
so many deaths of so many civilians, widespread destruction of towns and villages, and yet they've had to be -- well, they've been pushed back from
a lot of it. So clearly, it's going to be a fight to the death in the east. And the Ukrainians are saying that they absolutely need all the weapons
that they've been promised so that they can really make use of them in this really pivotal fight for the east.
[14:10:00]
HOLMES: Yes, and then reports of a lot more material coming into the Donbas from Russian territory. But I wanted to ask you too, because I know
you've talked a lot about the humanitarian side of this. What do we know about the success or otherwise of the various humanitarian corridors? I
mean, obviously, Mariupol springs to mind, but there were many that were meant to be in place.
AMANPOUR: There were. You know, the deputy prime -- sorry, yes, the deputy prime minister here who's in charge of this humanitarian logistics had said
that they had agreed to about ten corridors for today. Now, we don't know whether all have been successful or any, but that's what had been agreed
between two sides that wasn't about Mariupol, we understand, because I did speak to the U.N.'s Chief Relief Coordinator, Martin Griffiths, who was
saying they're still continuing to try to negotiate these humanitarian corridors for Mariupol.
He's been to Moscow, he's spoken to the people who need to be, you know, in charge of that situation there, he's talking here to the government, and
they hope to be able to get it, you know, to get it done. But as yet, the significant humanitarian corridors that one needs for a situation like
Mariupol have not been agreed to. And furthermore, he explained and we've seen this and reported it in other nations, that it's not just, you know,
getting an agreement for an hour or two hours of ceasefire, this he said has to be at least three days, at least three days whereby the Russians
agree to quit their -- you know, shelling.
Ukrainians agree that they won't use any force to defend themselves inside Mariupol, and that there is some kind of ability for these civilians to try
to get out of harm's way. It takes time, he said, it's not like you can shove a bus in there and bring it out. You know, you can do bits and bobs
like that, but not meaningful evacuations or meaningful deliveries of humanitarian aid.
HOLMES: All right, great to have you, Christiane, Christiane Amanpour there in Kyiv for us. Well, as the Russian attacks intensify in eastern
Ukraine, authorities there urging people to evacuate while they still can - - get out. Ukraine says Russia has agreed, as Christiane was just saying there, to open ten humanitarian corridors. Are they working? We don't know.
CNN senior international correspondent Ivan Watson though rode on an evacuation train from eastern Ukraine headed towards Lviv in the west of
the country. He shares some of the harrowing stories he heard on board.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is an evacuation train. It's heading from eastern Ukraine to the western city
of Lviv. It has at least 1,100 passengers on it. We just stopped somewhere and it took on more passengers. I have been speaking with this family
here. They just fled from (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE) --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Tokmak --
WATSON: So, they just came from the town of Tokmak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WATSON: OK, and they said that they left their homes behind, that it's a Russian-occupied town, and they went through checkpoints, many Russian
checkpoints that the men in their group were searched. Their phones were all checked, and it was terribly frightening, and there were moments of
shooting, where the Russian forces were shooting and it was a terrifying situation. So, you have a whole group of relatives here that are gathered.
You finally decided to leave with your family --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes --
WATSON: What was it that finally pushed you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I am just worried. Just worried. My -- I have very old granny, my mother don't want to leave her alone, and I decided to
go alone because I'm very afraid to stay there.
WATSON: How many weeks were you living under Russian occupation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Month.
WATSON: A month?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they occupied our city from the 27th February, and from this day, we all feel this pressure.
WATSON: Are you -- do you feel better now that you are out of Russian- control territory?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt better after we left our city already because I understand everything already will be much better for me. But I am very
worried about my family there.
WATSON: You left family behind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and family, my home, my apartment, my pets.
WATSON: What would you like to tell people right now about the conditions when the Russian military occupies your town in Ukraine?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want them, all these people, just trying to leave these places if they have this opportunity. Because there is really
terrible and I'm sure they will remember this forever and their kids will remember this forever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Heartbreaking there. Ivan Watson reporting. Well, by train, by car or by foot from Lviv or from wherever in Ukraine they safely arrive,
refugees must decide, of course, where to go next f they can. Now, in Ivan's report, you just met a few of the more than 4.3 million Ukrainians
who have fled, leaving homes, pets, and very often family members behind.
[14:15:00]
Poland has welcomed more than half of them, more than 2.5 million refugees since late February. One man who is part of that incredible humanitarian
effort is the Deputy Foreign Minister of Poland Marcin Przydacz. He joins me now via Skype from Warsaw. Last time we spoke, I was in Lviv. Let's talk
about the refugee situation. Poland, of course, as we said, taking the vast majority of refugees. I know that you've said Poland needs more assistance
urgently. What do you need? What are you not getting?
MARCIN PRZYDACZ, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, POLAND: Well, thank you very much again for having me, and thank you very much for those nice words
about Poland, basically. It is of course the central government, the local authorities, but many ordinary Poles helping their Ukrainian neighbors,
offering them accommodation. But as you said, 2.5 million in four or five weeks just crossed the Polish border and tried to leave, I mean, start a
new life down here in Poland.
We were successfully able to accommodate around 150,000 kids to the Polish schooling system, the same with the healthcare system, the same with the
accommodations. So of course, we will be doing this, but any financial assistance from our allies, partners would be very much appreciated by
Poland. As you know, we are not going to force anybody to leave our country. We are absolutely opposing any quotas, and we believe that the
people have the free choice to stay or leave.
But those who are going to stay, they need also to live in a normal -- kind of normal life down here, and they need, of course, also the financial
assistance. And that is something, one thing we would really like from our allies since we didn't get even the euro sent from the -- Brussels, from
the European institutions. So, we are ready to get it from other partners. Like today, from London, our president was just paying a visit to London,
discussing many things but also the humanitarian and financial assistance from --
HOLMES: Yes --
PRZYDACZ: Britain to Poland.
HOLMES: The sheer cost must be enormous, so I can't imagine, and Poland and the Polish people have been very welcoming. I mean, what more can or
should NATO be doing for Poland in this current environment?
PRZYDACZ: Well, when it comes to NATO, just today, there was a ministerial meeting, NATO's defensive alliance. So what we need to do is to concentrate
on defending ourselves, on defending our lives and our -- the world we are living basically, by deterring Russia, and by, of course, deploying
additional troops and equipment on the eastern flanks since we don't know when Russia is going to stop. That's why we are talking with our allies.
United States basically, United Kingdom, other allies, about the possible deployment of troops and equipment on the eastern flank, all the way from
Estonia through Poland, to Romania and Bulgaria. That would be very good political signal towards Russia that -- just like President Biden said,
that NATO is ready to fulfill all its obligations under Article 5 and is ready to defend every single inch of its territory.
HOLMES: Right, I wanted to ask you this too, Poland is in the process of cutting off all Russian oil imports, it's pledged to do so. Of course,
other countries in Europe, notably, Germany has not. It says it would be disastrous economically. But given what's going on in Ukraine, should
countries like Germany just accept the pain that would be associated with cutting off those supplies and that source of revenue for Russia which of
course helps pay for Russia's war machine?
PRZYDACZ: Well, you know, we've been warning our partners of the -- in the EU that deepening energy contracts with Russia, it's a bad -- really idea
since they are depending also - they're dependent somehow on the political will of Moscow. In Poland, and since the conservative government took
office in 2015, we started the whole process of changing, cutting all those links with Russia, building new pipelines with Norway, getting contracts
also from the U.S. when it comes to the LNG.
Germans, they took another decision to build Nord Stream 2, those infamous pipeline, Germany with Russia. Our prime minister just yesterday said, they
wanted to have a cheap energy and peace. Instead, they have very expensive energy now, and war on the border of NATO.
[14:20:00]
That was a very bad decision, and I believe that it's never too late to repair that. So it's now high time for Germany, for other -- but the
Netherlands also to close all those deepening energy contracts with Russia and find another partners --
HOLMES: Yes --
PRZYDACZ: Including U.S., Gulf countries. There are so many other partners to do business with, and we need to cut this oxygen for Mr. Putin, because
for the money he's getting from -- you know, from oil and gas, his final thing, the weapon, which is you know, bombing Ukraine, and killing those
innocent --
HOLMES: Yes --
PRZYDACZ: People around Kyiv, and in eastern Ukraine.
HOLMES: Yes --
PRZYDACZ: This must stop.
HOLMES: We are talking tens of billions of euros, yes, indeed. Thanks so much for joining us, Marcin Przydacz; deputy Foreign Minister of Poland,
good to see you again.
PRZYDACZ: Thank you very much.
HOLMES: All right. Now to some breaking news out of Washington D.C. The U.S. Senate has just voted to confirm President Biden's nominee, Ketanji
Brown Jackson to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court. Now, she will become the nation's first black female Supreme Court Justice when she takes her seat
later this year. That's when Justice Stephen Breyer retires.
All right, we'll take a quick break, when we come back on the program, we'll meet a special unit that uses drones to help defend Ukraine. And
we'll explain how this video shows Russian troops might have exposed themselves to dangerous levels of radiation. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: New video appears to show areas where Russian forces were digging up soil before their withdrawal from Chernobyl's highly radioactive red
forest area. Ukrainian authorities released a video you see there on your screen of abandoned Russian military positions, and as you can see, it
shows extensive tank tracks and pits and trenches, all of this in the off limits and the most toxic area of the exclusion zone near the Chernobyl
nuclear power plant.
Russian troops may have received significant radiation exposure as a result. Now, special Ukrainian army unit is helping to target and destroy
Russian tanks and other military vehicles with drones, and they also used them to document atrocities. We warn you, some of the video in Fred
Pleitgen's report is graphic and disturbing.
[14:25:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE Be careful, just move from there.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like a scene from the gates of hell. The deadly strewn across this
highway, west of Kyiv, some still next to the wreckage of their vehicles as the dogs roam around looking to scavenge. This is what Russian forces left
behind when they retreated from here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They organized ambush over there, why are we going right now?
PLEITGEN: Oleksandr Radzikhovsky tells me these were civilians gunned down from this position where the Russians had placed a tank.
OLEKSANDR RADZIKHOVSKY, BUGATTI COMPANY UKRAINE TERRITORIAL DEFENSE FORCES: And you can see it's actually building a shooting zone, you see?
PLEITGEN: Yes --
RADZIKHOVSKY: And this car, look, they're sort of in line. There are no cars here because they would not let them come. They just shoot as soon as
they approach.
PLEITGEN: The Russian government denies targeting civilians, they call such allegations quote, "fake and propaganda". But Oleksandr is part of a
drone unit and they filmed one incident. It was March 7th when the Russians were still in full control of this area, and a group of cars was driving
down the highway. They turned around after apparently taking fire from the tank position, this car stops and the driver gets out, then this.
RADZIKHOVSKY: His races -- heard about -- he's had, and this moment, he will shoot by -- on this place.
PLEITGEN: Two people were killed that day, Maxim Yuvenko(ph) and his wife Senia(ph) who was also sitting in the vehicle. The families have confirmed
the identities to CNN. After the incident, the drone filmed Russian troops getting two further people out of the car, and taking them away. It was
the couple's 6-year-old son and a family friend traveling with them, the relatives confirmed. Both were later released by the Russians.
The soldiers then searched Maxim's body and dragged him away. This incident both traumatizing and motivating for Oleksandr's drone unit.
RADZIKHOVSKY: In normal life before the war, we were civilians who liked to fly drones around casually, and just liked making nice video, YouTube
videos, but when the war began, we become actually a vital part of the resistance.
PLEITGEN: Oleksandr sent us hours of video, showing his team scoping out Russian vehicles, even finding them when they're hidden and almost
impossible to spot, and then helping the Ukrainians hit them.
RADZIKHOVSKY: We are eyes, we're called eyes because with eyes, you can see and you can report. And as soon as you see, you can conduct strikes,
artillery, air strikes.
PLEITGEN: How long does it take to get your information to the right places to then be able to act on the intelligence that you provide?
RADZIKHOVSKY: In good time, it's about a matter of minutes.
PLEITGEN: And sometimes, a little mosquito can take out a whole herd of elephants. This is drone footage of Oleksandr's unit searching for a
massive column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles, and this is that column after the drones found it. Oleksandr tells me units like his played
a major role, fending off Russian troops despite the Ukrainians being vastly out-gunned.
RADZIKHOVSKY: We're agile, as a total defense, we can -- oh, we don't want, it's like suicide on this, it means you go. But the army, they have
to stay, they're ordered to stay, they stay. They're dying, but they're staying and holding this particular ground.
PLEITGEN: Nobody knows how many Russians died here, but the group says it was many. Taken out with the help of a band of amateur drone pilots looking
to defend their homeland. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Mila(ph), Ukraine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Extraordinary stuff. Well, we're going to take another break, when we come back, tonight, the EU taking some big steps against Russian energy
imports, a major source of revenue for Moscow's war. Did they go far enough? We'll break it down for you. Also still to come, as Ukrainians flee
the war at home, what role is this mass migration playing in Putin's battle against the west. We'll have that and more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:30:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
HOLMES: The European Parliament has overwhelmingly approved a resolution for an immediate, full embargo on Russian imports of oil, coal, nuclear
fuel and gas to the E.U.
Now the resolution is not binding but it does send a strong message to the rest of the bloc; notably, perhaps Germany. E.U. diplomats are poised to
approve a sanctions package that does include an import ban on Russian coal specifically.
Now they're working out some of the technical details. And a source tells us they are optimistic about reaching a deal soon. The E.U.'s top diplomat,
Josep Borrell, says he hopes it will happen by Thursday or Friday, in his words, at the latest. Clare Sebastian standing by in London.
Good to see you, Clare. You know, criticism by some, that, you know, stopping coal imports from Russia is one thing. But it's a drop in the
bucket compared to oil and gas revenues for Russia.
What is the sense of how much these new sanctions will bite and, I think importantly, how quickly they'll bite?
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have to see the final deal to really know that. We know, among the technicalities that the European
diplomats are discussing, there may well be a phase-in of this ban on Russian coal imports.
That will be critical to understanding how quickly this will bite. But in terms of sanctioning coal overall, it's not a huge amount in monetary
terms. Doing this would deprive Russia of $4.3 billion of revenue per year, according the E.U. Commission president, Ursula van der Leyen.
So this, in terms of Russia's overall energy exports, is a very small amount. It's a small amount in terms of how much Europe has already paid
Russia since the start of the war in Ukraine, for its energy. That amount is $35 billion or 35 billion euros or $38 billion, according to Josep
Borrell.
The reason coal is important is because this is a statement. This is essentially a warning that Europe is now putting energy on the table. It's
prepared to go there. It's prepared to stomach the disruption of its own energy supply chains in order to try to end this conflict.
And Europe's top diplomat, Josep Borrell, said they will move to start discussing sanctions on oil as soon as Monday. And that really would turn
the screws on the Russian economy. Oil is by far its biggest export, biggest revenue generator. And OECD Europe by 60 percent of those oil
exports, so a huge market for Russia.
HOLMES: Absolutely. And real quickly, before I let you go, Mr. Putin's daughters have been sanctioned.
What do we know of them and what impact the sanctions will have?
SEBASTIAN: We know very little. That is on purpose. President Putin said he wants to keep his family out of the spotlight. He never discusses them,
anything about them, anything they do.
We know they have been named by the U.S. as Mariya Putina and Katerina Tikhonova. They are adults now. And the full sanctions that the U.S. has
put on them will include asset freezes and travel bans. And the point of this is not to sanction them personally, although by association they are
doing that.
[14:35:00]
SEBASTIAN: But to try to target any assets that they might have been holding by proxy for their father, for President Putin. That is something
we've seen the U.S. do with sanctioning family members of oligarchs, for example. So that is the strategy here.
HOLMES: All right. Clare, good to see you. Clare Sebastian in London.
Russia's war in Ukraine has brought a rare moment of unity to the U.S. Senate. And that's saying something these days. It voted unanimously to
suspend normal trade relations with Russia and Belarus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): On this vote, the yeas are 100. The nays are zero. The bill as amended is passed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: 100-0, well, that hardly ever happens these days. This legislation paves the way for higher tariffs on imports, from both Russia and Belarus.
The Senate also unanimously passed another bill banning energy imports from Russia.
Shortly afterwards, the House of Representatives also passed both bills. They now go to President Biden for his signature.
Ordinary Russians are feeling the impact of sanctions. But measures against the super rich have yet to change the course of the war or make them
publicly challenge their president. CNN's Nina dos Santos explains why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another week, another sanctioned asset seized. On Monday, Spain took possession of this super
yacht, the Tango, owned by tycoon Viktor Vekselberg.
The seizure follows others in France, Italy and the U.K. But now, in the invasion's second month, experts acknowledged the pressure on Moscow's once
omnipotent oligarchs is having a limited effect.
TOM KEATINGE, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR FINANCIAL CRIME AND SECURITY STUDIES, RUSI: I, for one, would certainly like to see a much more vocal community
of oligarchs and using what little leverage they have with Putin, to at least make him understand the misery he's inflicting on Ukraine.
DOS SANTOS: Do you think you'll see that?
KEATINGE: I think it's pretty unlikely. We've seen what happens if people cross Vladimir Putin. And these individuals giving sanctions we'll monitor
in the same way.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Last month, Russia's president, a man accused of poisoning his adversaries, which he denies, says traitors will be "spat out
like flies."
The U.S., the U.K. and the E.U. have together sanctioned over 1,000 Russian elites and defense firms, making it illegal for westerners to provide them
with cash or services. Yet only a handful have so far spoken out against the invasion.
Bank boss Mikhail Fridman and the aluminum magnate, Oleg Deripaska, both under sanction, have broken ranks with the Kremlin and called for the
bloodshed to end. Fridman, born in Ukraine, says he has limited sway these days.
MIKHAIL FRIDMAN, RUSSIAN OLIGARCH: It just creates enormous pressure for us. But we do not have any impact for political decisions.
KEATINGE: Their line has been that they have no influence. That they're innocent in all of this. I don't think many people believe that.
DOS SANTOS: Former government officials, like Anatoly Chubais and Arkady Dvorkovich, have let it be known that they are against the events in
Ukraine. Neither agreed to speak to CNN on camera.
Roman Abramovich's attempts to mediate in peace talks have not stopped his prized Chelsea Football Club and a fleet of boats from being hit either he
now tries to sell the team. He has denied links to Putin, saying none of his activities merited sanctions.
Public opinion is certainly souring against Kremlin-connected cash, especially here in prime parts of central London. This mansion behind me
was broken into by squatters, who made their way up on to the balcony and unfurled a sign in protest to the war in Ukraine.
The reason they said they targeted this particular edifice is because they believed it to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
That oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, recently said, quote, "All sides would lose out, with tragic consequences for the entire world."
KEATINGE: Even when it comes to sanctions on oligarchs they are frankly symbolic, they're totemic, they, of course, keep the issue in the public
eye.
DOS SANTOS: So in essence, this is a PR exercise?
KEATINGE: Exactly a PR exercise.
DOS SANTOS (voice-over): Authorities appear to be aware of this. On Wednesday, the U.S. said it will now target the assets of Putin's two adult
daughters -- Nina Dos Santos, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now we told you earlier about the impacts of the refugee crisis in Poland, as that country responds to the millions crossing its border from
Ukraine in search of safety.
But this mass migration is also part of the war itself, as Russian President Putin tries -- and so far is failing -- to destabilize
neighboring countries. CNN's Kyung Lah explains from Warsaw.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Poland is already waging a war with Russia. It's just not the kind you imagine.
[14:40:00]
LAH (voice-over): Nearly 2.5 million Ukrainian refugees have crossed into the safety of Poland, as war ravages their country, packing Poland's
arenas, lining up for government benefits and sending their children to public schools.
These innocent faces are part of Vladimir Putin's war of mass migration.
LT. COL. ALEXANDER VINDMAN (RET.), FORMER DIRECTOR FOR EUROPEAN AFFAIRS, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL: It's a kind of a callousness that we just don't
understand here.
LAH: Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman is known as a crucial witness in former President Trump's first impeachment proceedings.
But he was also a child refugee from Ukraine, whose family moved to the U.S. in 1979.
VINDMAN: Refugees have been a weapon for a long time. Russia uses refugees as a weapon for years.
LAH: How do you deploy refugees as weapons?
VINDMAN: Where you bomb cities and those cities result in civilian populations are women and children in particular.
LAH: What is the theory behind that?
VINDMAN: Well, they're weaponized just by the mere fact that they're -- these are large numbers of people flowing into a country that is not
prepared to handle refugee camps that has to now spend funds on those refugees.
LAH: The alleged goal, destabilized Poland, a NATO country from within. But that hasn't happened yet.
VINDMAN: Poland, which was having a mixed record with regards to their democratic activities and democratic backsliding, has actually, you know,
kind of gone back to its roots. It has been extremely welcoming to the Ukrainian population, welcoming Ukrainians into their homes as members of
the family, that's to Putin probably unexpected.
LAH: But Warsaw's mayor says the pressure on his country grows by the day.
RAFAL TRZASKOWSKI, MAYOR, WARSAW, POLAND: Putin wants to destabilize Europe and the whole Western world. I mean, he miscalculated because he
thought that he's going to divide the Ukraine society, he lost. He wanted to divide us in the West, he lost. We are also waging a war against his
effort to destabilize us. And we have to prove to him that we stand united, that we share the burden.
LAH: We're just so thankful to Poland, says Marina Lesyk, something we hear again and again from Ukrainians. Nearly six weeks into this war, they
hope that goodwill last -- Kyung Lah, CNN, Warsaw, Poland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Still to come on the program, the Turkish trial for those suspected of having killed Jamal Khashoggi is moving to Saudi Arabia. We'll
explain why so many people, including the journalist's fiancee, are protesting that decision.
We'll be right back.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:45:00]
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HOLMES: A Turkish court has ruled that the trial in absentia of those accused of killing Jamal Khashoggi can now be moved to Saudi Arabia.
Khashoggi was a Saudi journalist and a critic of Saudi Arabia's government.
He was killed and dismembered in 2018, at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. U.S. intelligence said the Saudi crown prince personally approved the
operation. As CNN's Jomana Karadsheh reports from Istanbul, Khashoggi supporters are vowing to appeal the ruling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After a very brief session, this Turkish court ruled to halt the trial in absentia of 26 Saudi suspects,
accused of being involved in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and to transfer that trial to Saudi Arabia.
This was a request made by the Turkish prosecution a week ago. This essentially, very likely, will end the case. The fiancee of Jamal Khashoggi
and her lawyers saying they will be appealing this decision. Take a listen to what she told us earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HATICE CENGIZ, JAMAL KHASHOGGI'S FIANCEE: Kind of the case in Turkey is finished maybe. But we hope maybe we will go apply -- appeal, I mean,
appeal, because it's against the law. It's against the law because there is no agreement between Saudi Arabia and Turkey.
And because of a lot of reason, they cannot take a decision. So that's why we will go to appeal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARADSHEH: Their expectation is, once this trial, once this case is transferred to Saudi Arabia, it is going to get buried because Saudi Arabia
had its own judicial process, a trial that was shrouded in secrecy.
Though sentenced, their names were not made public. It was described by human rights groups as a sham. One member of a Human Rights Watch observer
in court today told us that she was expecting this decision from the Turkish court, describing it very much as the court rubber-stamping a
political decision.
But this has really shocked so many who have followed this case, this shift in Turkey's position, a 180-degree shift in its position because, in the
aftermath of that brutal, gruesome murder of Jamal Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkish officials, including the Turkish president,
were vowing to hold those responsible accountable, saying that Turkey will pursue justice.
But this is coming at a time when Turkey is really trying to mend ties with various countries in this region, former foes and rivals, including the
United Arab Emirates, Israel and also Saudi Arabia.
Many this decision is driven by the state of the country's economy. Referring to her country's decision to halt this trial, Hatice Cengiz, the
Turkish fiancee of Jamal Khashoggi, telling us, "They gave up, I will not," vowing to continue this fight for justice with the appeal but also to
pursue a civil suit in the United States -- Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Istanbul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: In Pakistan, the country's supreme court has ruled the prime minister's attempt to block a no confidence vote in parliament is
unconstitutional. The court debated for four days as prime minister Imran Khan tried to dissolve parliament and push through early elections.
Khan's opposition is calling for his removal over claims of bad governance and economic incompetence. That no confidence vote is now set for Saturday.
And we will be right back.
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[14:50:00]
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HOLMES: We're getting word of another attack in Israel, a shooting on this occasion. At least six people seriously wounded, according to Israeli
emergency services. We're keeping an eye on that; very few details at the moment. We'll bring you more as it comes in.
More horror coming out of Russia's war in Ukraine. Stories have emerged of Ukrainians from Mariupol being deported to Russia, forced to pass through
so-called "registration camps" or "filtration camps."
And that word "filtration" is a loaded word as well historically. The Mariupol city council said that Russia's failure to agree to evacuation
corridors and its creation of these so-called "filtration centers" were part of a broader effort to cover up potential war crimes carried out in
the city.
CNN could not independently verify that claim but we are hearing from residents, who say they were sent to Russia against their will. Katie
Polglase reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATIE POLGLASE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCHER (voice-over): Post after post of missing children in Ukraine, families desperate to find their loved
ones. Most come from the cities most severely impacted by the fighting.
And at the top of the list is Mariupol. These pictures of missing children were provided by parents and police to Magnolia, a Ukrainian NGO tracking
missing children. Their Ukrainian director told CNN they are inundated with cases.
KARYNA LYPOVETSKA, DIRECTOR, MAGNOLIA: The number of missing children is close to 2,000, by only one month.
POLGLASE (voice-over): A scene of utter devastation. Amid the chaos and uncertainty, families told CNN, relatives, including children, went
missing. And now, from this void, a story has emerged of people not missing but deported.
LYPOVETSKA: Unfortunately, some people are stolen, forced, stolen by Russians. Some were displaced in Russia but no one knows information where
exactly and for what.
POLGLASE (voice-over): CNN has spoken to multiple Mariupol residents, who say soldiers from the Russian army forcibly evacuated them to Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some who asked to stay were told no.
POLGLASE (voice-over): This testimony is from "Anna." We're using a pseudonym to protect her identity and a CNN producer is reading her words.
Like many others, "Anna," a young woman was living under bombardment in Mariupol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They came in and said, "It's an order."
He told us, "If you make a fuss, things will get worse."
POLGLASE: Many told us it started with a promise of evacuation. Soldiers came to where they were staying and told them it was dangerous and that
they needed to get out. And so they went to shelters and then camps further and further into Russian territory.
It was then that they realized that there was very little option to get out.
POLGLASE (voice-over): CNN spoke to multiple people on the condition of anonymity. And using "Anna's" testimony, we started tracking the key
locations along the deportation route. We are not identifying individual routes for the safety of our interviewees.
This is the town of Bezimenne. These tents indicate one of many sites across the town, where interviewees told us they were taken on the first
step of their journey.
"Anna" described her stop as , quote, "registration camp," where they said they were interrogated for hours by Russian and Russian-backed forces.
Russia claims these camps are to harbor refugees. Another shelter seen here in Taganrog. And while some interviewees saw the journey to Russia as a
necessary passage to safety, others, including "Anna," found the experience distressing and forced.
This is "Anna's" migration card, a standard document provided to her by Russia upon entry. But it masks a troubling journey.
[14:55:00]
POLGLASE (voice-over): "Anna" told CNN they were forced to surrender their phones and passports during intense security checks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They photograph you from all angles. I felt we were treated like criminals or being held as the property of the Russian
Federation. I didn't feel we were free to leave.
POLGLASE (voice-over): After questioning, interviewees told CNN they were transferred to other locations dotted across Russia and Russian occupied
territory. Some made onward journeys as far as Moscow and St. Petersburg.
The limitations on freedom of movement for those interviewed by CNN seemed to vary based on their access to money and family ties in Russia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).
POLGLASE (voice-over): Ukraine's government claims 45,000 people have been forcibly taken to Russia so far, which CNN cannot independently verify.
International human rights conventions prohibit the forced deportation or transfer of civilians.
After a week of transfers across Russian territory, "Anna" was finally given permission to leave and decided to drive to the border with Estonia,
a route others have also managed to take, according to the Estonian authorities.
However, others still remain in Russia or are unaccounted for entirely. And while the conflict in Ukraine continues, the panicked search for the
missing, feared dead or deported, goes on -- Katie Polglase, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Thanks for watching tonight, spending part of your day with me. I'm Michael Holmes. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
END
