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Hala Gorani Tonight
Commander Of Ukrainian Militia In Mariupol Says His Fighters Have Days Or Hours Left; Russia Tests New Ballistic Missile; Macron And Le Pen Face Off Today In French Presidential Debate; NATO Allies Could Be Involved In Mariupol Evacuation; Morgues Around Kyiv Overwhelmed; Prince Harry: Queen "On Great Form" During Visit; Johnny Depp Opens Up. Aired 2-3p ET
Aired April 20, 2022 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hello, everyone, live from CNN in London, I'm HALA GORANI TONIGHT. The commander of the Ukrainian militia in
Mariupol says his fighters have days, maybe even hours left. We're following developments in that strategic city where thousands of civilians
are still trapped as well.
Then, a new Russian missile test, and tough talk from Vladimir Putin. We're live at the Pentagon for reaction. This Intercontinental ballistic missile
test raising tensions. Plus, Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen face off. They're debating tonight ahead of Sunday's French presidential election.
What to expect, we will be covering that later in the hour.
And we start with Ukraine once again in bunkers, basements and shelters. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians are enduring relentless and devastating
shelling and airstrikes as Russia presses its offensive across eastern Ukraine. The sound of artillery rattles the landscape as Ukrainian forces
dig in around Luhansk. It is near constant. The head of the military administration there tells CNN, Russia is shelling the entire territory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERHIY HAYDAY, HEAD OF LUHANSK REGIONAL MILITARY ADMINISTRATION (through translator): The whole of Luhansk territory is being shelled. There is no
safe town. We understand that the Russian government is going to push ahead, and going to destroy everything on its path.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, in the battered city of Mariupol, look at these scenes of devastation. There's really no inhabitable building left, it looks like
from the air. The commander of the Ukrainian militia holed up in a steel factory complex, says the city is under constant bombardment. Hundreds of
civilians are sheltering in the factory's tunnels as well. This video of the factory is from Russian television.
CNN is not in Mariupol right now. But the militia commander defending the city says they may only have days or even hours left, and he is appealing
to the international community to evacuate them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERHII VOLYNA, COMMANDER, UKRAINE 36TH SEP. MARINE BRIGADE (through translator): We might have only a few days or even hours left. The enemy's
units are ten times larger than ours. We appeal to the world leaders to help us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, they are appealing for an extrication of their fighters. Also, there was an agreement to evacuate civilians. These agreements though have
fallen through many times before. Now, inside the city, you could see a few remaining residents buying groceries at a makeshift market, but food,
water, medical supplies are almost entirely exhausted. Mariupol's mayor called on the city's residents to leave today along a corridor that was set
So we're going to have to monitor that corridor and able to observe whether or not it is being used safely by these residents trying to leave.
Evacuating the Mariupol militia could be very challenging and time consuming to plan very dangerous to carry out. Joining me now from
Washington to discuss this is retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis. He's now a senior fellow and military expert at Defense Priorities.
Thanks for being with us.
What kind of operation would be needed to evacuate these remaining fighters and civilians in Mariupol since the city pretty much is occupied by the
Russians, safe for that steel factory complex?
DANIEL DAVIS, SENIOR FELLOW, DEFENSE PRIORITIES: Right, the only thing that's even theoretically possible would be a helicopter extraction which
certainly the U.S. Army is very capable of doing, and has done in various cases many times around the world. But the problem is, of course, it's a
very hot combat zone, and you would have to have the full cooperation and agreement of the Russian forces before anything can even be contemplated.
Even once that happens, that it would be a pretty large flotilla, so-to- speak of helicopters, it would take quite a lot of them to go in and get that out because it's very unlikely that you're going to get a corridor
that's going to be opened up for armored vehicles which it would be the other thing, it was the other option that would be necessary to take that
many people out of there. I mean, if we can't even get civilians out, it seems unlikely that they would allow a military convoy to go through. So, I
think practically-speaking, this just isn't going to happen.
GORANI: So what happens now?
DAVIS: Well, I mean, right now, the way it's looking like is that I think that probably that commander's comments are probably going to prove
accurate that probably within a day or so, that things are going to fall and be -- the defenders are going to be faced with the decision to either
fight literally to the death or that they're going to finally surrender like about a thousand or so others have already, and you know, been in a
situation like this where there is no hope coming, there's no cavalry coming.
I think the honorable thing for them to do is to just finally just, you know, surrender with honor, because otherwise it's going to be a pretty
dark end, I'm afraid.
GORANI: What led to this? Were the Ukrainians not armed well enough?
DAVIS: No, the issue is that Russia made this a priority. And as you heard the commander say there, that he was outnumbered ten to one. That's been
the case nearly since at least 7th March I believe when Russia completely surrounded the place, and at that point, they cut off any ability to
resupply or replenish or reinforce those troops.
And so, at that point, all this just horrendous attacks that you see that you were talking about the results of just a second ago, they just
methodically pounded everything and moved them -- the Ukraine into a smaller and smaller pile until now at this Azovstal factory complex offered
the most protection because of the underground facilities, but that's not going to help you if you don't have food and water.
GORANI: Sure, and we have civilians as well there holed up in there. But let's look at the eastern frontline now, it's a very long frontline,
hundreds of miles long. I mean, presumably, once the Russians take Mariupol, they'll be able to free up some of the troops that have been
fighting that battle to redeploy to other areas. But do they have -- they've been quite depleted in vehicles and men.
Do they have what it takes right now to keep fighting multi-front all over eastern Ukraine against Ukrainian forces that are still, although they say
they need more weapons, still getting arms from NATO allies delivered to them pretty much on a daily basis?
DAVIS: They are getting arms, but the problem is that Russia has an advantage in mobility, fire power, and air power And that means that Russia
is able to interdict a lot of these supplies coming in. And so, only a portion of it is actually getting to the frontline because it's got several
hundred miles that it has to go from the western Ukraine all the way into the Donbas area, and, of course, it comes under Russian shelling.
They have in the last two days, fired over a thousand attacks on the rear areas and ammo depots, fuel depots, train stations, train depots, to
everything to interdict that. And so it's really hard to get through, and it's going to be a test of wills for sure, but right now at least as of
today, the Russians do appear to have the tactical advantage.
GORANI: All right, thanks so Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis for joining us, live from Washington, appreciate it --
DAVIS: Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you.
GORANI: Now, the European Council President Charles Michel has vowed that the EU will do all it can to help Ukraine win the war. Michel met with
President Zelenskyy today in Kyiv, he's just the latest official to visit the Ukrainian capital. And Michel toured Kyiv as well as the town of
Borodyanka where you'll remember mass graves of hundreds of civilians were found after Russian forces withdrew. He says what he saw there, shook him,
and that those responsible must be punished.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES MICHEL, PRESIDENT, EUROPEAN COUNCIL: There are no words in order to explain what I feel, not as president of the European Council, but as a
father, as a human being These are atrocities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: CNN's Nic Robertson joins me now live from Brussels. So, when Michel says the EU will do everything it can, what does that mean, really?
Because the Ukrainians are saying they need weapons, they need ammunition, and they need supplies now. They need them yesterday. What is he promising,
did he bring an offer with him?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He did. He said that the European Union is going to continue with the humanitarian support,
the economic support. He implied that the military support would be continuing to come. And what he put on the table was a donor conference, he
said that would happen on the 5th of May. The World Bank, the IMF would be there.
Poland, Sweden, European Union would help put it together. And he said that this would be designed to continue to pay the Ukrainian government's bills,
just running government which is estimated to be about $5 billion a month. And that there would be a commitment to give that support and a commitment
for rebuilding once there was peace. You know, it seems that President Zelenskyy feels somewhat better, slightly, perhaps, about the amount of
weapons he's getting.
Because in the joint press conference, President Zelenskyy said that he felt that the West was warming towards Ukraine on the issue of weapons,
getting closer to giving them more of what they want. In fact, he said, that Ukraine has been getting some aircraft. Now, he didn't say what?
And, in fact, he explicitly said he wasn't going to discuss what planes they were getting or what other equipment. But he gave the impression that
some of the things -- because we know the Ukrainians have been asking for aircraft in the past, he gave the impression that some of their
requirements were being met.
He didn't say all. So perhaps, Ukraine's expectations are being a little bit better met. But hard to judge without knowing the details, of course.
GORANI: Nic Robertson, thanks so much, live in Brussels. Well, just a short time ago, just adding to the tension, the Kremlin announced the test
-- a test launch of a new intercontinental ballistic missile that can deploy nuclear warheads. It's been under development for years. The West
wasn't caught necessarily by surprise, but timing here is obviously everything. Tensions could not be higher, because of the Russian invasion
of Ukraine. The President Vladimir Putin says it is giving Russia's enemies something to think about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT, RUSSIA (through translator): This truly unique weapon will strengthen the combat potential of our armed forces, reliably
ensure Russia's security from external threats, and provide food for thought for those who in the heat of frenzied aggressive rhetoric try to
threaten our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, I want to bring in our Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann. Let's talk about this ICBM, this nuclear capable ICBM. It's
been in development for a while, but the test is happening now, obviously. How concerned are military officials and U.S. officials that what Putin
essentially is saying is, I could use this in this particular theater.
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly the impression he appears to want to send to the U.S. and to NATO. And we're
seeing because of this two very different approaches to ICBM testing from the U.S. and from Russia. We'll get to the U.S. approach in just a second
But first, the deal with Russia. In the middle of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, on day 50-something at this point, 54, 55, if I'm not mistaken. We
see Russia carry out an ICBM test. Now, they gave the U.S. notification under the new START Treaty as required. And Pentagon Press Secretary John
Kirby says the U.S. was not overly concerned by the launch simply happening as is. It was launched from northern Russia into the far east of Russia,
into their contractile(ph) region.
Two U.S. officials tell CNN that the U.S. tracked this launch essentially from the moment it took off until the moment it landed, and there was --
they weren't overly concerned that this would impact somewhere it wouldn't, or that this would impact somewhere in the U.S. or it threatens U.S.
territory. That being said, what's important here is the message. Not only the words from Russian President Vladimir Putin, but the overall message
here of carrying out an ICBM test in the middle of this ongoing Russian invasion.
Now, he had previewed this, Putin, that is, had previewed this weapon back in a 2018 speech, here now comes a few years later obviously, the test of
this system, meant to replace an older Soviet era ICBM. Now, the different approach from the U.S., the U.S. also obviously has its own ICBM tests, but
a test that was supposed to take place I believe last month or within the last few weeks or so was first postponed and then cancelled. That was an
attempt to keep an escalation from happening between the U.S. --
GORANI: Yes --
LIEBERMANN: And Russia. Russia not doing anything like that in this case, testing here as they see fit.
GORANI: Right, testing at this particular moment as well. Let's talk about a potential new U.S. aid package to Ukraine. What's in it? When can it be
LIEBERMANN: We're looking at approval sources tell us sometime within the next couple of days. It could be tomorrow. It could be a little later on
this week, or as we know simply from how Washington works, it could push into the weekend or perhaps early next week. What's in it? President Joe
Biden said the U.S. will send more artillery to Ukraine. And that's important. Why? Because the fight in southeast Ukraine will take place on
very different terrain than what we saw in northern Ukraine where there are swamps, forests, the Chernobyl exclusion zone.
In southeast Ukraine, it's open to rain, the kind that needs artillery, the kind where artillery could play a critical role as Russia tries to move in
from that point. That's why not only the U.S., but other NATO allies, other countries are trying to get artillery to Ukrainian forces as quickly as
GORANI: OK, Oren Liebermann, thanks very much. Still to come tonight, French voters will decide on Sunday whether they want to give President
Emmanuel Macron another term, and tonight, he debates Marine Le Pen. We'll preview that all important high stakes duel.
Then things get personal in the U.K. parliament. The U.K. PM and opposition leader exchange insults. We'll bring you that story next.
GORANI: French President Emmanuel Macron and his far-right challenger Marine Le Pen are about to face off in a pre-election debate. The two
candidates went head-to-head five years ago, and that time, Le Pen unraveled on stage. Since then, she's worked a lot on her image, but still
recent polls have Mr. Macron as the frontrunner with a lead that is getting wider over Le Pen. The final round of the French presidential election is
Let's go to CNN's Melissa Bell live from Paris. I imagine she's been preparing intensely for this face-to-face after that just terrible
performance five years ago. What do we expect?
MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right -- that's right, Hala, it was really that night that she was seen to have lost the 2017 election, so
catastrophic had her performance been. To make sure that, that doesn't happen again, she's had a couple of days off from campaigning in order just
to prepare for the debate. So we expect her to be on better form, better prepared in any case.
And what we expect is for her to lay out very much what she's been speaking about during this campaign which is that, she's going to take on Emmanuel
Macron on things like the cost of living, inflation, the difficulty of making ends meet for many French people, while Emmanuel Macron will be
looking to her inexperience on the global stage and to the issues that he has regarding her positions on Russia and Ukraine. Not some of what we
But it's going to be an extremely closely-watched debate, if nothing else, Hala, because there haven't been any so far, and also because it is two
very different visions of France that will once again be coming head-to- head.
BELL: A show of determination and dismay. On Saturday, thousands of people took to the streets of France to call for a vote against the far right, but
with little enthusiasm for the alternative. On Sunday, voters will choose once again between Emmanuel Macron and Marine Le Pen. In 2017, the
globalist centrist newcomer had seen off the nationalist far-right candidate winning by a big margin after sweeping aside the traditional
right and left.
This time, Le Pen has Macron's record to attack, and anger over inflation and the cost of living.
MARINE LE PEN, FRENCH PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): It's not just the cost of things of goods. It's also employment. There are
companies that are in trouble and that may go bust.
BELL: The far-right candidate is hoping to tap into some of the rage that exploded on to the streets of France early on in Macron's first term. The
Yellow Vest protests sparked by a fuel tax hike, but focused on Macron's reforming presidency.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): He's seen with real hatred. He's done a lot of damage. He's hurt very badly a section of the French
BELL: The French president's proposed reform of France's pension system including pushing back the retirement age also led to angry protests which
forced him to put it on hold. The pandemic then quieten the streets of France. But only momentarily, with protests picking up again over COVID-19
lockdowns and restrictions. The presidential campaign kicked off without the president who was focused on global issues, specifically the war in
Ukraine, adding to the sense that Macron can seem out of touch with the concerns of ordinary French people.
NATHALIE LOISEAU, FORMER FRENCH MINISTER FOR EUROPEAN AFFAIRS: He doesn't look like your friend next door. You basically never met a guy like him
before you meet him. So it's an asset, but it's also a liability for him.
BELL: But after the first round of voting on April 11th, saw more than 50 percent of votes go either to the extreme right or to the extreme left.
Ahead of the second round, Macron's now campaigning not so much on his record as on the changes that he plans to make.
EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT, FRANCE (through translator): I have no desire to do five more years. No. I don't want to redo them. I want to completely
refound something. I want it to be five years of complete renewal.
BELL: It will be one of those questions, Hala, whether he can convince particularly those far left voters, the 21 percent who voted in the first
round for Jean-Luc Melenchon to vote for him despite their reluctance, their hesitations. And I think one of the most interesting things about
this poll, when you look at it from outside of France, is that, here is a president who is loomed large on the world stage, who is considered quite
popular and yet, has proven incredibly divisive within France itself.
I think that's going to be one of the key things looking ahead at Sunday's poll. Can he convince enough of those very hesitant French people who don't
like him, but do not want to be working -- voting far right, not to abstain, not to vote blank and come out and vote for him instead. And as
you say, for now, the polls suggest that, that gap has been widening in his favor, Hala.
GORANI: All right, Melissa Bell, thanks very much for that report. The British prime minister faced a grilling in parliament today. Boris Johnson
vowed to get on with the job after receiving a fine for breaking COVID lockdown rules. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BORIS JOHNSON, PRIME MINISTER, UNITED KINGDOM: We're going to get on, and we're delivering for the British people, making sure -- making sure that we
power out of the problems that COVID has left us, and more people in work than there were before the pandemic, Mr. Speaker, fixing our energy
problems and leading the world in standing up to the aggression of Vladimir Putin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Nada Bashir is here with us. And that really has been the constant message from the Conservative Party. There's a war going on. There's a cost
of living crisis. Now is not the time to, you know, stir things up and organize a leadership contest. It would be disruptive.
NADA BASHIR, CNN REPORTER: Yes, absolutely. And Boris Johnson has been very key to draw a line under this scandal. He wants to move forward. He
has tried repeatedly now to move forward to focus on those policy, priorities for the opposition Labor Party certainly not taking that. We
heard from Keir Starmer today reminding the House of Commons that it wasn't that long ago that the prime minister's own press secretary was forced to
resign after video surfaced of her making light of COVID rules.
The Health Secretary -- former Health Secretary Matt Hancock had to resign after it was found that he had breached social distancing guidelines. And
Keir Starmer asked the prime minister today, why isn't he offering his resignation? And that's been called on him by the opposition parties, but
also by a small portion of his own MPs in the Conservative Party.
GORANI: And what was his response?
BASHIR: Well, he has simply disregarded this. He said the British people don't want a crisis on their hands in terms of a political crisis. They
want the government to focus on those policy priorities.
But recent polling has shown that actually more than 60 percent of British adults think the prime minister should resign, not so many think he
GORANI: What will be the big test? There's some elections, local elections coming up in May. I imagine if the Conservative Party does poorly in those
elections, it could, you know, spell trouble for the prime minister. Because the Conservative Party is rather ruthless. If they feel they're
going to lose an election because of their leader, they have a tendency to, you know, get rid of their leader.
BASHIR: Yes, certainly. There have been some Conservative MPs expressing loyalty. But there are others who are certainly waiting to see how those
main local elections will pan out if the party gets -- kind of will have a negative impact on the Conservative Party's performance.
And of course, there is that all-important discussion tomorrow in the House of Commons where the Labor Party has put forward, they will be debating
whether or not an investigation should be held at a parliamentary inquiry into whether the prime minister knowingly misled parliament.
Now, the Conservatives do have a majority, they are expected to not vote this through. But that will certainly send a clear signal as to which
politicians are perhaps considering whether or not to withhold their expression of loyalty to the prime minister.
GORANI: All right, Nada Bashir, thank you very much. Still to come, after the break, the Russian military has offered a ceasefire from Mariupol, but
Ukrainian troops say the bombs keep falling. We're live in Ukraine next.
GORANI: Well, Ukraine's president says there are still some 120,000 civilians trapped inside Mariupol, which some people are describing as hell
on earth. And right now, the city is under constant bombardment according to the Ukrainian Marine commander who is still there and still resisting.
Hundreds of civilians are sheltering in the Azovstal Steel plant along with Ukrainian troops. Now, a humanitarian corridor is open.
Though, it remains to be seen how many will be able to escape because these corridors have come under fire in the past, and there is a very little
trust in the Russians at this stage.
Matt Rivers joins me now live from Lviv with more, with the very latest on Mariupol.
First, these humanitarian corridors, are they being used at all or is this still a wait and see situation?
MATT RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, a little bit of both, to be honest with you. It's difficult to know exactly what's going on in
Mariupol at any given time, given the essential information blackout that's caused by the fact that it's just tough to get in touch with people there.
However, what we're hearing is twofold from regional officials. On the one hand, there were buses lined up. The humanitarian corridor did open at some
point. It was supposed to open at 2 pm local time. And there were buses and apparently some people that were able to leave.
However, we're hearing from Ukraine's deputy prime minister -- and this information is all just coming in at the moment so we do expect to get some
more clarification as we go through the evening here.
But Ukraine's deputy prime minister said that this did not go as planned. There had been talks of getting up to 6,000 people out of that city today.
And it appears that that did not happen.
And that is what needs to happen, frankly, because there are roughly 100,000 civilians that remain trapped in and around the Mariupol region
that need evacuation. So you need to have a scaled-up evacuation process if you're going to make any sort of an impact. That's not apparently what we
We don't know exactly how many people were able to get out but it wasn't as much as officials were hoping for.
Meanwhile, the fighting continues. The shelling continues. The bombardment at the steel plant continues. That is the heart of the Ukrainian resistance
at this point.
We heard from President Zelenskyy, who said two things. He said, if there's going to be a way to get our people out of Mariupol, it has to happen in
one of two ways: either, A, evacuation corridors, not only for the civilians but also for the fighters that remain there, so they can safely
get out of the city without being taken by Russian forces.
But if that doesn't happen, then it would have to be some sort of counter offensive by the Ukrainians to retake Mariupol.
And to that Zelenskyy unequivocally said that Ukraine does not have the kind of weaponry that is needed, the heavy weapons that are needed, to
basically kick the Russians out of Mariupol, a city they have besieged for weeks now, especially when you take that and put that in a split screen
with what's going on in the eastern part of the country.
That's where Ukraine has to be focusing the vast majority of its attention in terms of defending its front lines from this new Russian onslaught in
the Donbas region. They simply don't have enough supplies to go around to try and retake a city like Mariupol.
GORANI: Let's talk about this Russian offensive.
What's the latest on that?
Because this -- I mean, it is obviously multi-front, multi-pronged.
Is it the full scale offensive that we've been anticipating for many weeks now?
Or does it still fall short of that?
RIVERS: So what we're hearing from officials, both in Ukraine but also from the U.K. and the U.S., is that Russia doesn't appear to have committed
the entirety of its forces quite yet in terms of every single thing that it can throw at Ukrainian front lines.
But the shelling continues, the bombardment continues. And what these officials have characterized some of these Russian attacks are, as more
probing all these different areas of the front line, perhaps to check for weak points.
But what is clear is the fighting is robust and intense, all up and down that front line. What has not happened yet is that there has been no
Russian breakthrough. The front lines are holding steady. There's an incredible amount of shelling going on consistently. But there has been no
Russian breakthrough in the east.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Matt Rivers in Lviv.
The European Council president says history will not forget the war crimes committed in Ukraine. He visited Borodyanka today and said that town, like
Bucha and too many others, require justice. Morgues there are struggling to process the bodies of civilians killed by Russian forces during their brief
and bloody occupation.
Phil Black is in Bucha; a warning: his report contains disturbing images.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Morgues aren't supposed to be busy. Or so overcapacity that you need a team of volunteers to move bodies
around and large mobile refrigerators to accommodate them.
This is one of seven sites in and around Kyiv, working to cope with the tide of death left behind by Russia's retreating forces.
BLACK: Now there's still more bodies coming.
ANDRII BILYAKOV, FORENSIC MEDICINE PROFESSOR, BOGOMOLETS NATIONAL MEDICAL UNIVERSITY: Coming, yes, a lot. Every day at morning.
BLACK (voice-over): Andrii Bilyakov normally teaches forensic medicine. Now he's a full-time volunteer, performing endless autopsies.
BLACK: How many murders have you seen?
BILYAKOV: Murders, I think near to 30 percent is executed.
BLACK (voice-over): By his definition, that means 30 percent of the people in these bags have deliberate gunshot wounds to the head.
We witnessed a continuous cycle. Shuffling bodies from vehicles to storage, to autopsy, to storage and ultimately, preparation for burial.
Usually, it will be their second. Most have been exhumed from temporary graves. Families buying new clothes for those they've lost as a gesture of
love and respect. But they often go unworn. They can only be laid inside the coffin. The condition of the bodies means dressing them is impossible.
Among those lying here, waiting to be collected, is Roman Lieper (ph). His family says he was killed when munitions struck his home in a small remote
village. Roman's wife, Victoria, survived, only to endure a form of hell. Intense fighting when she couldn't escape the house.
Victoria's brother, Ihov (ph), says, "My sister had to step over her husband's body for two weeks. She had to go through it to get to food or
water. The room is still covered in blood. She is very bad now. Very bad. I don't know how she will live with this loss."
Others who grieve are living through a different form of hell. They can't find the body of the person they love.
Volodymyr (ph) is searching for his brother, Leonid (ph). He shows us where he was shot and killed, where he was buried in a shallow makeshift grave
before officials exhumed the body and took it away.
So Volodymyr (ph) has taken leave from active duty to travel through devastated communities, going from morgue to morgue but no one can help.
Eventually, he's directed to a police office with a central list of the dead. He's told his brother probably hasn't been processed yet.
Volodymyr (ph) must return to the war. He doesn't know when he'll be able to come back, even if Leonid's (ph) body is found.
"It hurts a lot," he says. "It hurts a lot but we don't give up."
Russia has left so much death behind in areas near Kyiv some people must wait their turn to grieve -- Phil Black, CNN, Bucha, Ukraine.
GORANI: And Russia's actions inside Ukraine are making the country an international pariah. Here's the latest example of that.
The world's most famous and oldest tennis tournament, Wimbledon, has banned Russian and Belarusian tennis players from competing this year because of
Russia's invasion and Belarus' support of the war.
The move will prevent several high-ranked players from competing at the iconic event which is the third grand slam of the year. A Kremlin
spokesperson calls the ban, quote, "unacceptable."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Given that Russia is a strong tennis country and our athletes possess top lines of the world rating, the
tournament itself would suffer because of this ban.
It is unacceptable to make the athletes once again hostages of certain political prejudice, intrigues and hostile actions toward our country. We
can only express our regret and wish the guys to keep their physical shape and world class in tennis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: I asked you on Twitter what you thought of this. Frankly, opinions divided on whether or not Russian athletes should be banned from Wimbledon.
The tournament itself starts June 27th.
Billionaire Oleg Tinkov is the latest Russian business leader to condemn this war. The founder of Tinkov Bank was among dozens of people sanctioned
by the U.K. last month.
The tycoon wrote on Instagram Tuesday, urging the West to give President Putin a way to save face.
He wrote, "I don't see a single beneficiary of this insane war. Innocent people and soldiers are dying.
And how could the army be good when everything else in the country is mired in nepotism, groveling and servility?"
He said 90 percent of Russians are against the war.
We'll be right back.
GORANI: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is one step closer to being extradited to the United States. A London court has sent his handover order
to the British government.
It will be up to Home Secretary Priti Patel to approve his transfer to the U.S. where he is wanted on criminal charges over the leak of thousands of
classified files and diplomatic cables.
Supporters of Assange gathered outside the court hearing, which he himself attended virtually from prison. His lawyer has said that the leaks exposed
wrongdoing and were in the public interest.
Prince Harry is opening up about his recent visit to visit his grandmother, the queen. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: It was great. It was just so nice to see her. She always grateful and she's always got a great sense of humor with
me and I was making sure that she's protected and had the right people around her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Our royal correspondent, Max Foster, joins me live to discuss this.
What does he mean, he wants to make sure people around her are protecting her?
MAX FOSTER, CNN LONDON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the interviewer didn't follow up. That's unfortunate, because it really stands out as a comment. The
suggestion being that he had some concern about the possibility that she might not be surrounded by the right people.
As you know, the only people really that surround her are the key courtiers, those senior private secretaries and then senior members of the
royal family. So we don't really know what he was referring to there.
But I think it certainly raised a few eyebrows, because it sounded slightly negative toward the family. Some people suggest combine that with the fact
that he was gushing about the queen. They've always been very close.
We know Prince Charles was also at that meeting. Prince William -- Prince Harry was asked whether he misses Prince Charles and Prince William. And he
basically just didn't answer. He moved to a different topic. So the tensions are clearly there. Still a lot of healing to be done, I think.
But certainly it's raised some eyebrows here. But, you know, nothing compared to what we've had before, of course.
GORANI: Sure. And he was -- he basically said he feels like home is America now. That kind of is cementing this notion that --
FOSTER: He did.
GORANI: -- he moved, he's kind of really moved on from the royal family and the U.K. at least for now.
FOSTER: Yes. And he made a really big point that they've been so welcoming in that community in California where he lives. But he did say it's his
home for now. And that raised some questions about whether or not he might come back at some point.
The big question, immediate question is whether or not he'll come back for the jubilee, a key moment in the royal calendar, particularly for the
queen, celebrating 70 years on the throne. She still hasn't met her great- granddaughter, Lilibet.
And Harry was asked about that as well, would he be coming for the jubilee?
Everyone is asking the same question. And he couldn't answer that, he said, because there are these security concerns, which would presume the links to
this case that he's filed.
FOSTER: He wants police protection. He feels he needs that level of protection. The police aren't willing to give it without a specific threat
and, also, because he's left his royal role. And a lot of people, critics of Harry, saying he needs to accept he's left the royal role. He can't have
If he's coming over, he needs to bring his own private security. But it doesn't appear he feels comfortable, that that's safe enough at this time.
GORANI: All right. Max Foster, thank you very much.
To business news now and a blow to the tune of billions of dollars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dearest reader, it has been said that competition is an opportunity for us to rise before our greatest of challenges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the season the --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, challenges, too, for Netflix. Despite the enormous success of shows like "Bridgerton" here as well as "Squid Game" and "Emily in
Paris," almost $50 billion was wiped off the streaming service's value in the stock market after it reported its first fall in subscribers in more
than a decade.
Netflix lost 200,000 subscribers in the first quarter of this year and bosses now want to make changes, including cracking down on password
Frank Pallotta is in New York.
I mean, the password sharing thing, that isn't a real solution, right?
They need more markets, more subscribers, content. They need maybe potentially even to go into live events.
I mean, where are they going to go from here?
FRANK PALLOTTA, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. There's no magic wand that is just going to fix losing $50 billion. And let me stress that again for the
That's billion, that's billion with a B, $50 billion wiped away in one day. This has to do a lot to do with Netflix having a lot of problems across the
Now mind you, Netflix is still the streaming leader. It has 221 million subscribers. It is still the biggest company in all of streaming. But
yesterday it lost 200,000 subscribers. That might seem like a rounding error for 221 million. But it's not when they were expected for 2.5 million
And they missed it by going the opposite direction. It was the first time since October of 2011 that that has happened.
So they really said, why did this happen?
They blamed everything from COVID to competition to the password sharing, as you said.
Where do they go from here is the big question. I think it has to start with content. People sign up for content and they need to be able to have
more content going forward. And cracking down on passwords could help but it's not going to be the ultimate solution.
GORANI: Right. Well, I'm not going to say it.
GORANI: The password sharing, don't take it away from us. We have parents in other countries.
Let me ask you about, for instance, breaking -- not "Breaking Bad."
What am I talking about?
"Better Call Saul." So they're releasing it. This is a big, big release. But they're doing it on a weekly basis.
I wonder is this one of the new strategies as well, not to release everything at once so people don't binge everything in one day?
And it kind of brings viewers back to the platform and word of mouth can then circulate more easily.
PALLOTTA: What's been really interesting that's been happening is one of the biggest shows on Netflix is called "Stranger Things." Right now,
stranger things are happening to Netflix. All the stuff we knew about Netflix kind of is upside down now, like, we've heard for years Reed
Hastings, the CEO, saying we'll never bring advertising to Netflix.
Yesterday, we're quite open to advertising. They've always talked about the binge model. But they've been doing more weekly stuff like other services
like Disney and Warner Brothers, discovery, HBO Max, our parent company has been doing, rolling out things a little bit at a time to get better
engagement and actually keeping the stories in the zeitgeist longer.
That's what Netflix has to do. They have to look inwards and think about themselves as a company and see what they can change, what they can
improve. The world around them isn't changing. And their rivals are coming up more and more and getting stronger and stronger.
GORANI: Yes. And you have Disney with huge back catalogs. You've got competition now. So you've got to kind of rethink your strategy. Thanks so
much for that, Frank.
Still to come tonight, Johnny Depp opens up about deeply personal aspects of his life as the defamation trial against his former wife resumes.
These are live images coming to us from Fairfax, Virginia. Full coverage is next.
GORANI: Johnny Depp is back on the stand in the $50 million defamation trial against his ex-wife, Amber Heard.
These are live images of the proceedings in Fairfax, Virginia. Depp says an argument between the couple ended in him seeking medical attention for a
severed finger, saying that Heard threw a bottle of vodka at him, which shattered and caused the finger to come off.
Earlier he said he never struck her nor any woman in response to allegations of domestic violence. Stephanie Elam has more on the case.
So what did he say about the finger?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That was probably the most riveting part of the testimony today. He testified for about three hours yesterday.
Today, he's been the only one on the stand, talking about this.
But he talked about this 2015 fight in Australia, where he claims that Amber Heard threw this bigger-sized vodka bottle at him and that it landed
on his hand on the bar, basically severing the tip of the middle finger on his dominant hand, his right hand.
In fact, take a listen to how he explained how he felt in that moment while he was in court today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNNY DEPP, ACTOR: She threw the large bottle and it made contact and shattered everywhere. And then I looked down and realized that the tip of
my finger had been severed. And I was looking directly at my bones. I don't know what a nervous breakdown feels like. But that's probably the closest
that I've ever been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ELAM: And you saw Amber Heard there in court, listening to his testimony on this. This was while he was filming "Pirates of the Caribbean," the
fifth one, I believe. And that's when this happened.
It's worth noting that Heard said this did not happen. She's denied this. But throughout his testimony, we've listened to him talk about the fact
that he grew up with an abusive mother and that he would just retreat and hide away from her behavior and that he started instituting this same
behavior, once he was in this relationship.
And it took a turn for the worst with Amber Heard, saying he would lock himself in bathrooms and in bedrooms just to stop the onslaught of slapping
and hitting that he said that he received from Amber Heard at the time.
He said at one point she put out a cigarette in his face. So several different instances of this. He also details substance abuse.
ELAM: He talks about how he was addicted to opioids at one point and what it was like getting off of them while he was in this relationship with her.
So all of this coming out in this $50 million defamation suit that Johnny Depp has filed, all because of a 2018 op-ed that Amber Heard wrote in "The
Washington Post," talking about surviving domestic abuse.
She never mentioned Johnny Depp in that write; however, Depp claims it's cost him work because of what she's written, because people assumed that it
was about him. She has filed a countersuit that is ongoing right now.
So even though these two are divorced, it's still very, very sticky. And some of these details coming out now -- and the picture of Johnny Depp's
finger that we saw, during the testimony, it was down to the white of his bone that you could see there on the tip of his finger. So it was very
Now he did get injured; how he got injured is where they disagree.
GORANI: Sure. We're not showing it for obvious reasons. But I obviously looked it up. Some of you may have looked it up. It's not pretty.
Thanks very much, Stephanie Elam, covering that trial from L.A.
And thanks to all of you for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is coming up next.