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The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper
The Simrils: A Family In Black And White. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired September 21, 2025 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:43]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the whole story. I'm Anderson Cooper.
We may be living in a time of deep division in this country, with tragic events and political rhetoric flooding the news almost daily, but this next hour is a powerful story of healing and reconciliation that takes place in South Carolina with a group of people who share a painful history but have come together as a family in spite of it.
CNN's Sara Sidner will introduce you to the Simrils. Today, there are White Simrils and Black Simrils, descendants of a plantation owning family and the people they enslaved more than 200 years ago. These descendants only found each other in the last decade. Since then, they've embarked on an extraordinary journey together from York County, South Carolina, to Liberia and back to learn more about their shared history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm good. Oh, so good.
SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the Simril family reunion, a family with big hearts and a dark American secret.
MICHAEL SIMRIL, SINGLE L SIMRIL: Hello, I'm Michael Simril. I'd like to start this off with the Serenity prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the truth and the difference.
It signifies everything that man, Spencer, intended on this being what we can do, we're going to do. What we can't do, we'll let the Lord handle.
SIDNER: What Michael and Spencer Simrill have done is unearth the family secrets together, discovering both villains and heroes.
In the process, they ended up uniting two sides of an old southern family that first settled in York County, South Carolina in the 1700s. The white side descended from slaveholders. The black side descended from people enslaved on the Simril plantation. These are the Simrils, a family in black and white who don't agree how to spell their last name.
Let's start with the easiest thing. It's your name and how you spell your name.
M. SIMRIL: My name is Michael Dewayne Simril, S-i-m-r-i-l, one L.
RITA SIMRIL FEE, SINGLE L SIMRIL: Name is Alberee Dolores Simril, S-i- m-r-i-l, Fee, F-e-e. I'm called Rita.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Simril with one L.
A. SIMRIL: Yes, one L.
STUART SIMRILL, DOUBLE L SIMRIL: I'm Stuart Simrill, S-i-m-r-i-l-l, two Ls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: S-i-m-r-i-l.
SPENCER SIMRILL JR., DOUBLE L SIMRIL: I'm Spencer Simrill Jr., S-i-m- r-i-l-l.
RUTH SIMRIL FISHER: My name is Ruth Simril Fisher Simrill, S-i-m-r-i- l, one L.
COOPER: The reason you one L is why?
FISHER: Because there's a difference between one L and two Ls.
SIDNER: What's the difference?
FISHER: I'm black, they're Caucasian. The two Ls are Caucasian.
S. SIMRILL JR.: My great grandfather, he was a football star for the South Carolina Gamecocks. And you find in 1916, it's spelled with one L. And then, it's spelled with two. So we think that he did this because his fiancee, his wife, her last name was Currell with two Ls. And this sort of aligns more, I guess, symmetrically. That was sort of the family story.
But then we also wondered if he did it to distance himself from the Black Simrils.
FISHER: The reason there was a difference in the Ls was because the White Simrills did not want anyone to know that they were related to the Black Simrils, so they added another L to their name.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Now, we call each other the single Ls and the double Ls.
[22:05:06]
SIDNER: How do you know Spencer?
M. SIMRIL: He sent a letter out to some family members about 11 years ago.
SIDNER: Did you know him before then?
M. SIMRIL: No, didn't know him from a can of paint.
S. SIMRILL JR.: I probably sent 40 copies to everyone in the Carolinas with a variation of the similar name.
SIDNER: One was addressed to Michael.
M. SIMRIL: Hello, fellow Simril or Simrill. I don't know about you but I have often wondered about the name Simril or its origin. Are its origins English? French?
Thirty years ago, my dad told my uncle we're Italian, the Simarellis, and for 30 years my uncle believed him.
FEE: I remember him opening the letter and he said, mama.
S. SIMRILL JR.: At the University of Georgia, I put together a course on family history where I would research alongside my students. Inspired by Henry Louis Gates, we would use ancestry.com as our textbook and trace our family origins as far back as we could.
FEE: My family in South Carolina never talked about our legacy of slavery and racial terrorism. It was a crime forgotten. We did not speak, speculate about a Black family across the tracks with the same name, spelled differently, S-i-m-r-i-l.
S. SIMRILL JR.: When I ran Simril through Google Books, I was horrified. For two nights I could not sleep after discovering the fate of Harriet Simril.
What I find just completely takes my breath away. I find Harriet Simril, she testified in this government document. The shorter word is the Ku Klux Klan report.
SIDNER: Harriet was born enslaved in the 1840s. Spencer could almost hear her talking to him and it set him off on a decade long mission to learn her whole story and share it with both the single L and double L Simrils.
This is Harriet Simrill's testimony.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes. She was 30 years old in 1871, a mother of four, when the Ku Klux Klan came into her house, ate all the food, destroyed their possessions.
SIDNER: This is where it gets really bad, she says. After they had got me out of doors, they dragged me into the big road and they ravished me out there. Questioner says, how many of them? There was three. One right after the other?
Yes, sir. Threw you down on the ground? And she says, yes, sir. They throwed me down. What a document for you.
S. SIMRILL JR.: It shook me to the core.
SIDNER: Not just because of what Harriet Simril testified, but also because what it meant for him and his family.
S. SIMRILL JR.: It was clear, with a name as unique as mine, that my ancestors had enslaved her.
SPENCER SIMRILL SR.: I remember our son, Spencer, calling me and said, dad, I have some disturbing news. He said, our family owned and enslaved people.
SIDNER: Did you know already?
S. SIMRILL SR.: I did not know and I remember feeling shock, confusion, shame.
SIDNER: Did you know anything about Harriet Simmer?
M. SIMRIL: No, I didn't know anything about Harriet Simril.
SIDNER: None of the Simrils did, Black or White.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But we believe her story should not be forgotten.
FEE: On Sunday, March 23, at Allison Creek Presbyterian Church, we will honor Harriet Simril.
ERICA HALL, SINGLE L SIMRIL: My father, the Reverend Spencer Simrill Sr., will preach on racial trauma and racial healing.
M. SIMRIL: Afterwards, we'll tour the Allison Creek Cemetery, which contain graves of White and Black Simril ancestry, and enjoy a meal and fellowship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yours sincerely, Spencer Simril.
M. SIMRIL: Automatically, instinct just kicked in like, OK, so he had to be part of the slave owner side.
SIDNER: In knowing that, did you want to talk to him when you first.
M. SIMRIL: No, not really. I had to think about it.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Pretty much every day. I check the mailbox, hopeful that somebody is going to write me back or call me. Then my dad started calling people, and his aunt, Nancy Simrill Landstreet, started calling people. And I think that's when the ice really broke.
DEBRA SIMRIL TISDALE-HARMON, SINGLE L SIMRIL: I was at home into this Netflix movie that would kill you. The landline rang and I answered it. And this little lady on the other line said, my name is Nancy Simril Landstreet and I'm looking for my people.
And I said, who would you say your people are? She said, is this the Simril household? I said, yes. She said, I want to meet you. You're my family. [22:10:08]
When I hung up that phone, I said, that sounds like a white woman. Later on that night, Spencer Sr. called me. I'm your cousin, he said, and I want to meet you.
So we made arrangements to meet here in Rock Hill at the Kentucky Free Chicken. They love chicken. God knows.
SIDNER: What made you agree to meet?
TISDALE-HARMON: I was curious. We've existed for such a long time, so why now you want to meet us?
SIDNER: Were you nervous?
S. SIMRILL SR.: I was nervous.
SIDNER: How come?
S. SIMRILL SR.: Well, I said, is this going to go south?
SIDNER: It didn't.
TISDALE-HARMON: That was the best meeting that we ever had. We talked about family. Then Spencer Jr. talked about Harriet Simril, what she went through.
SIDNER: At the Kentucky Fried Chicken?
TISDALE-HARMON: At the Kentucky Fried Chicken.
SIDNER: The first meeting ever?
TISDALE-HARMON: Mm-hmm.
SIDNER: And what'd you think about that?
TISDALE-HARMON: I thought it was amazing because you don't know me. And for you to feel so comfortable that you can come to me and talk to me about that, normally I would be angry because who the hell are you to come to me with that?
But I had a different feeling in my spirit, and I made it clear to them that we need to see each other again.
SIDNER: What was the point at which you said, you know what, I'm going to go to this family reunion.
M. SIMRIL: Me and my cousins, we all got together. Everybody was like, OK, cool, we're going.
SIDNER: Did everyone from the Black side of the family show up to this family reunion?
M. SIMRIL: No. No, there was some that didn't. JACK SCHNEIDER, DOUBLE L SIMRIL: Michael's uncle, and there were some
other members of the Black Simril family that were hesitant to meet us. I think that is what I would imagine the average response to some random white guy out of the blue saying, hey, we might be related. Let's explore this together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We welcome all of y'all. And this whole thing feels like to me, a God moment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ELEANOR LANDSTREET, DOUBLE L SIMRILL: One of my first conversations, I remember thinking, this is an uncomfortable situation. I'm, you know, the ancestor of somebody who had enslaved people. You're the ancestor of somebody who was enslaved.
I feel like I'm the one who should be embarrassed here. But it very quickly just melted away.
SIDNER: What is your most vivid memory from that first reunion, Spencer?
FISHER: Spencer Sr. dancing.
SIDNER: And what kind of sight was?
FISHER: He danced and he danced, and he danced. Then everybody else joined in.
TISDALE-HARMON: Heavenly Father, thank you so much for allowing all of us to be here today as a family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
FISHER: Oh my God, it was amazing, really, because I didn't expect for it to be as great as it was.
SIDNER: The Simril family reunion was born.
S. SIMRILL SR.: After that first reunion it was clear we're all in. When's the next one going to be?
SIDNER: Reunions kept happening and so did Spencer Jr.'s discoveries.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Ho for Liberia.
SIDNER: One of which blew everyone's mind, and ended up with a state sponsored historic marker the likes of which South Carolina had never erected before.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:14:29]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: I love this. It's pretty.
M. SIMRIL: We are Downtown Rock Hill, South Carolina.
SIDNER: In York County, in the northern part of the state.
M. SIMRIL: It's been revitalized.
SIDNER: But despite the new shops and buildings, the dark history of the south is all around here.
So the name of this church is?
S. SIMRILL JR.: Allison Creek Presbyterian Church was founded in 1854, right before the Civil War.
SIDNER: Wow. Thank you.
S. SIMRILL JR.: The Simril family were among the founders. Allison Creek was the home church for black and white Simrils during slavery in the early days of reconstruction.
SIDNER: So both slaves and slave owners would come together to church. Now, they didn't actually come together.
S. SIMRILL JR.: No.
SIDNER: And the reason why I am where I am, which is up here on a balcony, is because this is where the slaves had to be, right? It makes me really sad. Like, it's heavy being up here.
But this is where all the Simrils have gathered for family reunions, beginning with the first one in 2014. That's when Reverend Spencer Simrill Sr. made a guest appearance at the pulpit, speaking of the heroine his ancestors once enslaved.
S. SIMRILL SR.: And Harriet stood up, resurrected and said, I'm a child of God. I'm a daughter of the Most High. This is part of our history.
SIDNER: After church, Simril reunions typically include a visit to the nearby graves.
S. SIMRILL JR.: This is Hugh Simril, my third great grandfather.
M. SIMRIL: It's crazy to me because this is the guy that enslaved my ancestors.
SIDNER: Beyond an obvious cemetery shrouded by trees is the Clay Hill Graveyard for slaves and free blacks.
M. SIMRIL: This is where my ancestors were buried at.
SIDNER: Hundreds are buried here, but there are just 14 headstones.
This doesn't look anything like the other cemetery.
M. SIMRIL: You see the things in the ground? Those are markers for graves. And there's over 300 unmarked graves out here. This is Dorcas. In memory of Dorcas Hill.
SIDNER: Tell me who Dorcas Hill is and her significance in the story.
After Michael joined Spencer's almost obsessive need to learn more family history, they found a will that showed Dorcas was the mother of a man named Madison. And another will indicating Madison was Harriet Simril's father, making Dorcas her grandmother.
[22:19:57]
S. SIMRILL JR.: This is an 1864 will from my third great grandfather, Hugh Simril. And what's so painful about this is, you can see in between flour barrels and bags, the names --
SIDNER: Names.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes, of 28 enslaved people, along with their corresponding monetary value. This boy Madison is 55 years old.
SIDNER: And it says boy right there.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
SIDNER: And not only was he Dorcas Hill's son and Harriet Simril's father, but this page from the 1870 census shows he's also the brother of one of the most unlikely heroes of American history, Elias Hill.
S. SIMRILL JR.: This is the first mention of Elias Hill on the public record. And so this is articles neglected, forgotten. In the first will, there's some cotton. And then after that, a negro child named Elias.
SIDNER: Six.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Six.
SIDNER: And he was listed for zero dollars. Zero dollars?
S. SIMRILL JR.: Zero.
SIDNER: Oh my God.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
SIDNER: Elias was unable to walk. It is believed he was stricken with polio. Unfathomable to the men who determined him worthless, Elias mind was remarkable and matched only by his determination.
S. SIMRILL JR.: His father was a blacksmith. They made a deal where he would could purchase his wife's freedom if they put Elias as part of the deal.
M. SIMRIL: He was one of the smartest man in the South. He could read, taught himself how to read and write.
S. SIMRILL JR.: As a Union League leader, he helped register them to vote. As a school teacher, helped them to gain literacy. And as a preacher, he kept their faith when the Klan was against them.
SIDNER: And the Klan wasn't just against Elias Hill and his black neighbors. The KKK considered them dangerous, afraid of their newly granted right to vote.
ZACH LEMHOUSE, HISTORIAN: Violence was very bad here. After the fall election in 1870 into the spring of 1871, there are 600 beatings and 11 murders perpetrated by the Ku Klux Klan in York County alone.
SIDNER: Zach Lemhouse is a historian with Brattonsville, a former plantation turned living museum in York County.
LEMHOUSE: So the Klan originated in Pulaski, Tennessee around 1865. But by 1868, they were here in South Carolina. So when Black men were granted the right to vote, they're able to ensure that there's a Black majority in the House of Representatives here in South Carolina for every congressional session during Reconstruction, except for one. So the Black people are getting out and voting and the Klan wants to prevent that.
SIDNER: Holy smokes, I didn't know that. You're from here. As a child, did you learn that?
LEMHOUSE: I didn't know this history like so many other people don't know this history.
ADERSON FRANCOIS, LAW PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: The reason why you whitewash the story of Reconstruction is twofold. You do so because you want to eliminate Black political and economic power, but you also do it because you don't want generations to come to know what the world could have been.
LEMHOUSE: The Ku Klux Klan grew in York County and became entrenched in a way that was unparalleled to any other area in this region.
SIDNER: That's because York County was half White and half Black. And if the Klan could suppress the Black vote and they could keep control.
LEMHOUSE: Well over three quarters of the White male population in York County were members of the Ku Klux Klan.
SIDNER: In the spring of 1871, the KKK attacked Harriet Simril. That same spring, they nearly killed her uncle, Elias Hill.
S. SIMRILL JR.: He had a horsewhip and he told me to pull up my shirt. I reckon, he struck me. Eight cuts right on the hip bone. It was almost the only place he could hit my body.
My legs are so short, all my limbs drawn up and withered away with pain. One of them took a strap and buckled around my neck and said, let's take him to the river and drown him. But one said not to kill me.
SIDNER: That one, who is that?
S. SIMRILL JR.: It was Tom Simril, my great, great grandfather, who had saved his life.
SIDNER: So he was there --
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
SIDNER: -- taking part in all this --
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
SIDNER: -- but didn't want them to kill him. Why do you think that is?
S. SIMRILL JR.: He's probably the youngest in the party. And you know the voice of conscience that he listened to inside.
SIDNER: Yes. But it didn't come until a man was nearly dead.
S. SIMRILL JR.: No. I mean, it's horrible.
M. SIMRIL: I don't give him no grace for it. I think he felt some type of way himself.
SIDNER: That he was going to be judged by God?
M. SIMRIL: Exactly. If we kill this man, God's going -- we're going to have hell to pay.
S. SIMRILL JR.: We're in Downtown York, formerly Yorkville. This is formerly the Rose Hotel.
[22:25:00]
SIDNER: It's where federal troops led by Major Lewis Merrill set up in 1871 to investigate Ku Klux Klan violence in South Carolina.
S. SIMRILL JR.: So then Elias went after his horrible beating. He comes and he tells not only what happened to him, but he has a list of all the atrocities that have happened since October.
SIDNER: Wow. Later that same year, in the same building, Elias Hill would be carried up to testify before a congressional subcommittee investigating Klan violence.
S. SIMRILL JR.: One of the most important buildings in South Carolina's history. And there's no sign of the layers of history that occurred here.
SIDNER: There's no marker to tell you anything about --
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes. SIDNER: -- what happened. But there is a marker on the street.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
SIDNER: What is it?
S. SIMRILL JR.: This is a marker for the house of James Rufus Bratton.
SIDNER: Bratton was a leader in the local Klan.
S. SIMRILL JR.: It's not only that, but they're celebrating his hosting of Confederate President Jefferson Davis, who is fleeing the Union Army.
SIDNER: Up next, Elias has had enough.
S. SIMRILL SR.: I was totally shocked about the similar connection in Liberia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:31:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: In 1817, the news was from America but the radio was in Liberia. That's where Spencer Simril Jr. found himself on a mission trip organized by the Allison Creek Church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we are at the Christ Missionary Assembly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, Andrex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Dancer.
SIDNER: Michael was unable to make it, but vows he must someday because this turned out to be the promised land for his ancestors who migrated here in late 1871 led by Elias Hill.
M. SIMRIL: Imagine that, not being able to walk and lead a migration.
LEMHOUSE: On November 7, 1871, Elias Hill and 165 other people of color from York County board a ship called the Edith Rose. That ship takes them to Liberia.
SIDNER: Harriet was not on board. The Edith Rose set sail a month before she testified at the Ku Klux Klan trials. By 1880, information about her vanished from the census. And her husband, Samuel, was married to someone else. What do you think happened?
M. SIMRIL: I think they killed her after she testified. SIDNER: But he doesn't know that for certain, no one does, because
there are large gaps in the documentation. Among the unknown, if the double Ls and single Ls are related by blood or soil.
S. SIMRILL JR.: There's no like Sally Hemings, Thomas Jefferson, common ancestor that we know of. My dad and Debra Simrill did a DNA test.
TISDALE-HARMON: We had it (inaudible). I couldn't spit but nothing.
S. SIMRILL SR.: Fill the tube with saliva.
TISDALE-HARMON: Fill it?
S. SIMRILL SR.: We don't have.
TISDALE-HARMON: Honey.
S. SIMRILL JR.: The results show Debra is about 20 percent European. And that portion of her DNA closely matched Spencer Sr.'s whose ancestry traces back to England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland.
S. SIMRILL JR.: So from that we found more of a common legacy.
SIDNER: A common legacy that grew in York, South Carolina.
Starting here in the ground is York County. Who's on the first rung of your family tree?
S. SIMRILL JR.: James Simril.
SIDNER: Then who shows up?
S. SIMRILL JR.: Francis is his son. And then his son Hugh, he was the first slaveholder in the Simril family. And then Tom Simrill, his son. Then Frank Marion White Simrill, he was the football star. He changed the spelling of our name.
Then his son, my granddaddy, Frank P. Simrill. And then my dad, Spencer Sr.
SIDNER: And here you come.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Spencer Jr.
SIDNER: There he is, ladies and gentlemen. All right, Michael, you're matriarch.
M. SIMRIL: It would be Dorcas Hill. From there, she had kids, Elias and Madison. Elias didn't have any kids.
SIDNER: But Madison,
M. SIMRIL: Madison had kids. Then you have Solomon Hill.
SIDNER: Mm-hmm. M. SIMRIL: And then you have Harriet Simril. She was married to Samuel Simril.
SIDNER: Samuel. The Harriet --
M. SIMRIL: Harriet --
SIDNER: -- the record ends. There's no more. But her husband's still there.
M. SIMRIL: Yes. Yes. Ciscelia is his second wife.
SIDNER: Cecilia Simril marries into the family.
M. SIMRIL: Mm-hmm.
SIDNER: And then she has a child.
M. SIMRIL: Samuel Simril II.
SIDNER: And then?
M. SIMRIL: Samuel Simril III, which is my granddaddy. Then you have my mom, Alberee Simril.
SIDNER: And then here you come.
M. SIMRIL: Yes.
SIDNER: How difficult was it to find your documents of your side of the family?
[22:35:03]
S. SIMRILL JR.: In 30 minutes on Ancestry, I'm back in Northern Ireland -- I'm back in Scotland.
SIDNER: And then as you're trying, y' all are looking at Michael.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
M. SIMRIL: We had to travel library to library.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Years.
LEMHOUSE: They're all deafening silences in the archival record, especially for people of African descent, especially when you consider who's writing these documents during the time of slavery, who's making the decisions as to what documents should be preserved.
SIDNER: But Spencer was able to find several documents that put Madison Simril, or Madison Hill, as he signed his name on the ship registry back in South Carolina less than a year after sailing to Liberia. What happened during that time?
S. SIMRILL JR.: There was an outbreak of malaria, and he was lost seven grandchildren in like a three month period, and his brother.
SIDNER: You heard right, Madison's brother, Elias Hill, reached his promised land, but died shortly after he arrived.
You went to search for his grave. Why?
S. SIMRILL JR.: There's something happens to you inside when you're there in the presence of historical greatness. It's why people reenact battles, it's why people go on pilgrimages. These people were buried before this. Where Elias is buried is still unknown.
SIDNER: Elias's African dreams did not become reality, but he brought his nephew, Solomon Hill, and Solomon's business partner to Liberia, and they hit the dream jackpot.
S. SIMRILL JR.: They amassed a fortune as coffee barons. They had some land, and then once their coffee trees came to harvest, that's when the money started coming in.
SIDNER: I read that and went, how did that happen?
M. SIMRIL: They took everything that they learned here and took it to Liberia. All of the farming, all of that.
SIDNER: Michael and Spencer were so impressed by the migration, they pushed hard for a plaque memorializing it and its leader, Elias Hill. It finally became reality in 2017.
S. SIMRILL JR.: We erected the first historical marker in South Carolina to mention the Ku Klux Klan. Back then, not a single historical marker mentioned the KKK.
Some people ask because Harriet did not go to Liberia. But we felt that they had made this joint family decision, and that she was a part of this freedom movement.
SIDNER: Why, Spencer, was this important, so important to you?
S. SIMRILL JR.: I couldn't change the past, but I could amend the historical record to help bring him to his proper place among the pantheon of heroes.
SIDNER: Up next, the single L and double L Simrils weigh in on reparations.
M. SIMRIL: When they scared this going to get taken away from them. It got taken away from my ancestors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[22:38:32]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SIDNER: Eleven years after the first Simril reunion --
S. SIMRILL SR.: The expansion of our family.
SIDNER: -- Spencer Sr. is showing off his dance moves again. His son, Spencer Jr., has once again worked with Michael and others to put together a family reunion weekend that is fun but also reflective of his family values.
S. SIMRILL SR.: He grew up with this sense of that you're here to be partners with people to respect the dignity of every human being and that the Simril family is committed to the acts of justice, and then in some form justice turns into reparations.
SIDNER: So what does reparations mean to you? What does a reparation look like in the Simril family?
S. SIMRILL SR.: Well, it would look like helping provide scholarship money to the upcoming Black Simril grandchildren.
SIDNER: And he says it means sharing facts about racism's impact on a Black person's ability to accumulate wealth.
S. SIMRILL SR.: White people don't know that Black people in the very beginning were excluded from Social Security. The only way that Franklin Roosevelt could get Social Security through was to cut a deal with Southern Democrats.
SIDNER: That deal excluded domestic and farm workers from eligibility for Social Security for nearly 20 years, essentially cutting out Black Americans because they're the ones that held the majority of those jobs then.
[22:45:07]
S. SIMRILL SR.: And the reason I think this is important. For centuries, people of color could never create generational wealth.
SIDNER: There was no safety net, nothing.
S. SIMRILL SR.: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were hardworking people.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Mm-hmm.
SIDNER: The typical White household has six times as much wealth as the typical Black household.
Is there a difference in economic strengths for the Black and White Simrils?
M. SIMRIL: There's a major difference.
SIDNER: OK.
M. SIMRIL: You got to have reparations. We have to set up things that put in place for that -- like college funds. Imagine if my ancestors still had that land that they bought.
Madison, he was like, the one that put in all the work.
SIDNER: Miraculously, Madison, once a slave here, came back from Africa, able to purchase a piece of the Simril plantation.
M. SIMRIL: A lot of the kids in my family would be living real good right now, would be able to go to college. And the ones that didn't want to go to college, they could have their own businesses.
My ancestors were iron workers. They were carpenters. Imagine if those businesses were handed down from generation to generation. But because it was taken from our family, you can't pass it on.
SIDNER: The word reparations sends people to a whole new strata.
M. SIMRIL: It blows their mind.
SIDNER: Why do you think that is?
M. SIMRIL: Because a lot of people have things that they work so hard for, and they're scared that's gonna get taken away from them. It got taken away from my ancestors.
SIDNER: So you are not advocating that it gets taken away. You're advocating --
M. SIMRIL: That we work out a way that we can set some things up for my family moving forward for the generational wealth of my family.
SIDNER: In the meantime, there are other types of reparations, Michael says.
M. SIMRIL: I had a landlord that sold the house that I was living in. He gave me 45 days to move out. I was on the phone with my mom. I was at Spencer's house. He overheard my conversation.
And he was like, you ain't you -- you about to be out. He said, Aunt Nancy has a house on the farm, and maybe I can get you in that house. Two weeks later, I was moving into the house.
SIDNER: What was that like?
M. SIMRIL: That's that, you know, reparations that I was talking about, you know. They took away our resources. He gave me a resource.
SIDNER: But it's also how family treats one another.
M. SIMRIL: That's family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to thank you for orchestrating this and bringing us all together.
SIDNER: Families share resources, but also emotional turmoil.
S. SIMRILL: There is an amazing amount of alcohol abuse involved in both sides of the family. And, you know, it goes down the generations. It doesn't go away. You know, just look at that story of Harriet and -- it's just an amazingly painful story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you believe that was passed down?
S. SIMRILL: I don't know if the story was, but the pain was.
M. SIMRIL: That stuff is passed down from generation to generation. You can't get over it because you still got things that you're dealing with that happened all those years back.
SIDNER: There's some research that this trauma is part of your DNA. Do you believe that?
M. SIMRIL: Yes, I believe it, because you hold resentment.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Good to see you.
SIDNER: But over time, resentment can be replaced with genuine relationships. And that is the point of these reunions, forging family connections no matter how many L's in your name.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Hey, everybody. Manetta's here.
MANETTA SIMRIL, SINGLE L SIMRIL: Hey.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Manetta Simril from St. Louis.
SIDNER: There is joy when new members of the extended family show up. Manetta Simril, one L, discovered Michael and Spencer on Facebook a few years ago. Got in touch, stayed in touch, and arrived in South Carolina for the very first time.
MA. SIMRIL: For me, I want to know about my family. I want something to be passed down to the next generation.
S. SIMRILL JR.: But it does match your outfit in a wonderful way.
MA. SIMRIL: Thank you. Sure do match me from head to foot.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll just take it over to the table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
SIDNER: This is an event for out of towners in for the 2025 reunion.
MA. SIMRIL: Liberia, oh my goodness.
SIDNER: Including Liberian descendants of Solomon Hill now living in Virginia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brenda. Oh, so good to see you.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Your timing's perfect because the food is almost ready.
M. SIMRIL: Easy.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Hold on. One more here. That's it. That's it.
SIDNER: Tonight, a meal, but it always goes beyond small talk.
[22:50:10]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just really here trying to learn all the pieces.
MA. SIMRIL: Over the years, we keep finding out something more and more different, new.
SIDNER: And the next day is reunion day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good to see you.
SIDNER: Which starts at church. Manetta briefly took the pulpit.
MA. SIMRIL: I'm just happy that God allowed me to live. I'm 74. To be able to hear this and to see it, and to experience was.
SIDNER: It was a moment that stirred deep emotion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're gonna walk over this way.
SIDNER: And then. It's her first time visiting the Clay Hill graveyard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not all have markers. So they put markers in some --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A census. When they were in slavery, there were no names, just numbers, you know, no names. Oh.
SIDNER: It was a morning of learning and painful discoveries. But at night, there's joy and some concern. Everyone here is aware this year's celebrations are taking place in a very different America from the first reunion. That's ahead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[22:55:47]
SIDNER: It's a gray afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: South Carolina flag, Liberia flag.
SIDNER: As the single L and double L Simrils gather on a York County farm for their 2025 family reunion. A little rain won't disrupt this family fun. But there is another storm brewing further away that threatens.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We've ended the tyranny of so called diversity, equity and inclusion policies. DEI would have ruined our country and now it's dead.
COOPER: It's become increasingly clear for this administration anti- diversity, equity and inclusion efforts also means removing references to the struggles of Black people in American society.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tens of thousands of photographs and online posts have been marked for deletion.
Among the Black historical figures removed or temporarily removed from government websites, Harriet Tubman, Jackie Robinson, Medgar Evers.
SIDNER: These reunions started a decade ago because the single L and double L Simrils discovered a shared painful history, acknowledged it and chose to come together in spite of it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel honored to be able to perform in front of my family.
SIDNER: Ironically, their 2025 celebration is happening at a time the federal government seems intent on erasing or ignoring the same history that binds this family together.
Have you seen this before?
TISDALE-HARMON: Oh, yes. That's what happened with Harriet.
SIDNER: You mean things being erased? Things just being swept under the rug?
TISDALE-HARMON: That's what Trump is doing. He's removing it.
FRANCOIS: In some ways, the entire idea of bending the eye. It's a way to invent a monster. Has to distract you from whatever wheel monsters happen to roam in the land.
SIDNER: Do you think everyone in the family that comes to the family reunion understands the undertones? Or do you think it's like a little seed that's being planted?
M. SIMRIL: I think it's a seed that's being planted. Everybody don't get it like me and Spencer get it. But they're not out here doing what we're doing. They don't see the things that we see.
SIDNER: If by doing it, he means bringing Black and White people together and constructing a multiracial family built on shared history and trust, yes. Michael and Spencer are doing that. And all these Simrils are playing a part.
S. SIMRILL: We were in the line getting barbecue. Where did yours go?
TISDALE-HARMON: Stuart and I have a close relationship with sisters. I just love her. Spencer Sr. is my best friend. There is nothing in this world I can't talk to him about.
SIDNER: She said, I never thought I'd have a friend like that.
S. SIMRILL SR.: Well my heart's stinging. Yes.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Hey, where are the chairs? Tall people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beautiful women move over one chair each.
S. SIMRILL JR.: My life is so enriched by knowing all the Simrils, single L, double L.
Did you think we can fit everybody in a line? How's this gonna work? I'm confused.
SIDNER: Is what's happening with the Simrils the antidote to the racial divide you think?
S. SIMRILL JR.: I don't make those bold claims that what we're doing is gonna change the entire world?
They're gonna show the shirts in the middle right here.
I know it's changed me. So perhaps in changing me, that has meant something to others.
What a beautiful herd.
This chasm of terror and hate that's become a bridge of healing for us, certainly, and hopefully for others.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Three, two, one.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS (in unison): Simril.
SIDNER: Would you say that what has happened with the Simril, one L, and the Simrills, two L, is a map or a guide for the rest of the nation that has this very issue in their family?
M. SIMRIL: Yes. I think we are the blueprint.
SIDNER: That's a big thing.
M. SIMRIL: To racial healing.
SIDNER: A blueprint to help bridge the racial divide. Drawn up by two Simrils, one Black and one White.
S. SIMRILL JR.: All right. We're gonna go sillier, more silly.
SIDNER: Creating one big family.
S. SIMRILL JR.: Beautiful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
