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Who's Talking to Chris Wallace

Chris Wallace Talks to Ina Garten. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired January 15, 2023 - 19:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't remember him ever apologizing saying I shouldn't have said that or I over reacted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you see that throughout the impeachment process.


BROWN: Catch the CNN Original Series "GIULIANI: WHAT HAPPENED TO AMERICA'S MAYOR" tonight at 9:00 right here on CNN. And I will be back with more NEWSROOM at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" up next.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: Welcome back to WHO'S TALKING. My guests tonight both turned opportunities into TV empires starting with a so- called ringmaster of pop culture, Bravo's Andy Cohen. You don't want to miss his hot take on Prince Harry and why discussing the "Real Housewives" got him a little hot under the collar.


ANDY COHEN, HOST AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, BRAVO: What do you want to say to me about that, Chris?

WALLACE: Wow. Talk about defensive.

COHEN: I know. I am a little defensive.


WALLACE: Then the Barefoot Contessa herself. Ina Garten shares how she almost passed on the biggest break of her life.


INA GARTEN, HOST, BAREFOOT CONTESSA ON FOOD NETWORK: I said lose my number. I didn't think that anybody would want to watch me on TV. I didn't know what they saw.

WALLACE: We have two things in common.

HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: Do I get a hint?

GARTIN: I find cooking really hard. I find it really stressful.

WALLACE: Do you feel your life is in danger?

TYLER PERRY, ACTOR: And the love of my mother is what brought me here.

WALLACE: What was the worst investment?

MARK CUBAN, BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: There is a long list of really bad ones.



WALLACE (voice-over): He's the creative mind behind some of the most viral moments in reality show history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only thing that is artificial or fake about me is this.

WALLACE: Andy Cohen oversees Bravo's biggest hits, about a dozen shows in all.

COHEN: Tonight's shocker goes to Russian Vladimir Putin.

WALLACE: While hosting his own late-night program, pushing politicians and celebrities to spill the tea.



WALLACE: It's been a long, strange trip from CBS News intern to wildly successful television executive and host.

COHEN: We will see you tomorrow night, everybody.

WALLACE: And when he's not talking pop culture or ringing in the New Year with his BFF Anderson Cooper.

COHEN: Have you gotten high at a brisk?

WALLACE: Andy is taking on new projects as a book author and father of two.

COHEN: Where is Daddy? Yes.

WALLACE: So what's his reality? We're about to find out.


WALLACE: Andy Cohen, welcome. I'm excited to get to talk to you and a little nervous.

COHEN: Well, I was going to say the same thing to be honest.

WALLACE: I'm a little worried --

COHEN: I feel you're going in for the kill here.

WALLACE: Well, I'm a little worried. Is there a kill to go in for?

COHEN: You tell me. Yes. For sure.

WALLACE: I'm a little worried you're going to try to turn this into "Who's Talking to Andy Cohen."

COHEN: Yes. Well --

WALLACE: OK. So let me start --

COHEN: Get in there.

WALLACE: You were on CNN's New Year's Eve Special.

COHEN: Yes, I was.

WALLACE: And you seemed to have a great difficulty with the directive that instead of doing real shots, that you had to drink mystery non- alcoholic drinks during the course of the evening with your buddy Anderson Cooper. Here you are.


COHEN: One, two, three. Oh, that tastes -- what could that be? Any idea?


COHEN: That is gross.

COOPER: Are we drinking the squeezed juice of a leather shoe?

COHEN: That actually -- that -- I need tequila, honestly.



COHEN: The glass was not breakable. I threw it.

WALLACE: I clearly sounded like a glass. Like it broke. Was it really that bad? Did you really need tequila that bad?

COHEN: Here is the thing. We were told not to drink much to the chagrin really of the viewers. I mean, we were very annoyed because we felt like they were saying to us, you're not capable of drinking responsibly. It just --

WALLACE: Did you watch your performance the year before?

COHEN: I did. I went off on De Blasio.


COHEN: And by the way, the safest person to go off on in the universe.

WALLACE: I know. But it was a little --

COHEN: There was no one who disagreed with me. I'm sorry, he had a 98 percent --

WALLACE: De Blasio did.

COHEN: His wife. Yes. Sorry. Look at that. See?

WALLACE: There we go. And it happens a lot.

COHEN: I know. I know. Anyway -- wow. That was crazy. So, you know, that was a little annoying. The mystery shots were something that we came up with to have fun.

WALLACE: It was fun.

COHEN: Because I think that the audience loves to see Anderson grimace after he takes a shot and so this in my mind was a way to get him to do that and it was a way to have fun and it was like, look, we're still having shots. Now, yes, that was two hours into the night. It was raining. And I just -- yes, I had a little moment there which Anderson slapped my wrist during the commercial break. He's like, you got to get it together, dude.


But that was my only moment where I was -- I really wanted some tequila.

WALLACE: But, Andy --

COHEN: Otherwise, we had a blast and I would argue we really didn't act differently than we act when we're drinking.

WALLACE: Except you didn't attack the current mayor of New York.

COHEN: I didn't but I'm waiting for that.


WALLACE: You going to let him earn it, right?

COHEN: Yes, exactly.

WALLACE: We're going to put up on the screen everything that you're involved in.


WALLACE: Look at this. You executive produce 11 different properties for NBC Universal.


WALLACE: You have two separate channels on Sirius XM including the aptly named Radio Andy and you're about to release your fifth, count them, fifth book. Someone said, if you're not the architect of our celebrity culture, you're the ringmaster of our celebrity culture. Why do you think everything you do is so popular?

COHEN: I think -- listen. I think the "Housewives" initially. I owe a great deal of my success to these women on this show which I think has replaced the modern soap opera in our TV landscape or is the modern soap opera in our TV landscape. And so that's the place that I started and I think that I've been able to connect with my audience in a way that's authentic and that is a real dialogue and somehow keeps -- the conversation keeps going and I'm grateful for it.

WALLACE: All right. You talk about "The Housewives." And that is your biggest franchise. I didn't realize this. You have 10.

COHEN: I know.

WALLACE: Ten. All the way from New Jersey to Beverly Hills to Dubai.

COHEN: To Dubai. Yes.

WALLACE: And here is a taste of some of the more viral moments.

COHEN: Oh, god. So now you're going to show the wine tossing and table flipping.

WALLACE: Would I do that?

COHEN: That's what you're going to do. Fine.

WALLACE: Let's take a look.

COHEN: OK, great. I love it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not talking to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm talking to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mouth. I've had enough of you, you beast.





UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch my husband ever.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't ever touch --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For everybody to know, you better want to talk about me or everybody you know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never get near my husband.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody will know.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never go after my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) away from my husband.


WALLACE: Wait. I got to tell -- folks, while we're doing this, Andy is looking at this, going OK, OK. I mean, is that unrepresentative of "Real Housewives?"

COHEN: It is a part of it, yes. I would say -- listen, what you're looking at there was the climax of an entire season of "The Housewives of Beverly Hills."

WALLACE: Well, we're not going to show the boring part.

COHEN: Well, exactly. So all I'm saying is, yes, that happened. That was highly dramatic, that was highly charged, and when you get to that point, then you have three episodes of talking about what happened. I mean, it's all within the confines of the show but so, yes, that happened. What do you want to say to me about that, Chris?


WALLACE: Wow. Talk about defensive.

COHEN: I know. I am a little defensive. Yes.

WALLACE: Well, a couple of things.


WALLACE: First of all, is that for real or are they just playing?

COHEN: They're not playing. It for real. We cast highly dramatic women. Look, are they aware the cameras are there? Are they -- you know, and I think that the Beverly Hills housewives of all of them are the most aware that they're on a television show. So, but yes, of course they're aware that the cameras are there and -- but come to a reunion taping sometime, Chris. And you will see that they feel the way they feel, they just happen to feel things maybe stronger than your neighbor next door.

WALLACE: One of your books.


WALLACE: Is titled "Superficial," which is not by opinion.


WALLACE: That's your title. Another book is "A Deep Look at a Shallow Year."


WALLACE: Are you at all embarrassed by what you did?

COHEN: No. I'm really not. Because it makes so many people happy. I go back to me being in St. Louis as a kid watching "All My Children" for years and years and years, and I loved "All My Children." It was just the great escape for me. And I think that this show represents that for a whole lot of people, and I think it is -- it can be really confrontational. It can sometimes be something that's a little difficult to swallow but I think it's also about in the real great moments, it's about being a wife and a mother and a sister and a friend and a whole lot more. So yes, there's all that and then there's a whole lot more.

WALLACE: Jennifer Shaw.


WALLACE: Who was a member of the Salt Lake City.


WALLACE: "Real Housewives" series, was just sentenced to six and a half years in prison for defrauding thousands of victims in a telemarketing screen. Now you're on the record last November as saying that you hope she would get no jail time.


And the question I have is, why would you take her side against the thousands of people she defrauded including a lot of elderly --

COHEN: I think I was hoping that she was actually innocent. I wouldn't have --

WALLACE: She pleaded guilty.

COHEN: That was before she pled guilty. I mean, that I said that. I would think.

WALLACE: No, I think it was after.

COHEN: Oh, really? WALLACE: Yes.

COHEN: Oh, god. Anyway, wow, this is fun.

WALLACE: And you were easy to crack there.

COHEN: Yes. I know, yes, exactly. Look, I think -- I don't know what the context of me saying that was but I think that the context was people kept demanding of me what is her status with the show, and I'm like it's up for the -- it's up to the judge. She's about to get sentenced to a lot of jail time.

WALLACE: You're saying she didn't do something bad.

COHEN: Yes, she did. And so she should go to jail. I was saying, look, I -- you know, sometimes if you get to know someone and get to like them you hope that they are not guilty of something horrible.





WALLACE: Then there is your show "Watch What Happens Live."


WALLACE: Five nights a week.

COHEN: You going to come on as a guest?

WALLACE: Have you ever asked me to be a guest?

COHEN: I would love -- I'm asking you right now.

WALLACE: Well, I don't know.

COHEN: You'd love it. You'd have fun.

WALLACE: I know you will.

COHEN: But Dan Rather has been on several times.

WALLACE: I understand that.

COHEN: We've had esteemed journalists on all the time.

WALLACE: What do you think is the appeal of that show?

COHEN: I think it's authentic. I think it's fun. I think it takes late-night television and kind of turns it inside out. There is no pre-interview. There's -- there -- it's just fun and it's spontaneous and, you know, you never know what's going to happen. WALLACE: One of the things that's a secret to success is you get some

great guests and I want to show a clip of you with Meryl Streep.



COHEN: Dustin Hoffman.


COHEN: Jack Nicholson.


COHEN: Robert Redford. You marry one, you shag one, you kill one.

STREEP: Redford, marry maybe.


STREEP: Yes, OK. And Jack, shag.


STREEP: And --

COHEN: Dustin, ex-nay?

STREEP: Dustin --

COHEN: OK. Very good.


WALLACE: First of all, how big a deal to get somebody like Meryl Streep on the show and how big a deal that she played along?


WALLACE: I mean, I love when she said shag Jack.

COHEN: Yes. Yes. Very big deal. That was actually about four years into our -- we're now 14 years into doing "Watch What Happens Live." So that was early in our run and it was a huge turning point for us getting Meryl Streep to do the show. It's a big deal.

WALLACE: Still to come, from the professional to the personal, Andy opens up about how fatherhood at 50 has changed him. And he doesn't hold back when I ask about the royal PR blitz.


WALLACE: Do you think that Harry and Meghan have become a bore?



WALLACE: Andy Cohen is synonymous with the glitz, glamour and gossip of pop culture and reality TV. Millions flock to get his hot take on the latest celebrity news. And that's where our conversation continues.

So now I'm going to ask you the toughest question in the whole interview.

COHEN: Really?

WALLACE: And I want you to be honest about this.


WALLACE: Do you think that Harry and Meghan have become a bore?

COHEN: Do I think they have become a bore? No. I think that as I watched his "60 Minutes" interview, I thought, you know, as he's talking about his brother's balding head and how he's losing his looks and all this stuff, and then he says, no, we love each other and I -- you know, I'm -- you know, the ball is in their court and all this stuff, I mean, I think that maybe there was a way for him to do it without torching the bridge but also telling a story, which is so compelling.

What a fascinating life, but I -- you know, the torching everything and all the details and I cut my back on the fight with my brother. I mean, I know a lot of brothers who have beat the crap out of each other, you know. I mean, his brother is now the future king of England.


COHEN: I think that the move is for William -- Harry's book is called "Spare."


COHEN: I think William should write a book called "Heir" and tell his story.

WALLACE: I don't think that's what they do.

COHEN: I don't either.

WALLACE: No, but I guess part of what I'm asking is, Oprah interview, OK.


WALLACE: Their six-part series on Netflix. Now you're writing a book? I mean, at a certain point, doesn't this show need to be cancelled? COHEN: Well, I'm buying the book, by the way. As much as I'm seeing,

I'm getting the book, but yes, they're -- look. It's expensive to live in Montecito, you know? They're cashing out. They're cashing out.

WALLACE: And they got one story to tell and they're going to tell it.

COHEN: I know. And they're going to tell it all right now. They're not leaving anything on the table.

WALLACE: And that, ladies and gentlemen, is from the arbiter, the ringmaster of pop culture in America today.

COHEN: Right.

WALLACE: You grew up in St. Louis.

COHEN: I did.

WALLACE: Your two idols were Susan Lucic, you talked about the fact that you loved "All My Children."

COHEN: And Sam Donaldson.

WALLACE: And Sam Donaldson.


WALLACE: It's an odd couple.

COHEN: It is. But isn't it -- look where I am. I'm the Sam Donaldson of housewives. I mean, it's Erica Cane, Susan Lucic.


COHEN: She's now Lisa Vanderpump on "The Real Housewives."

WALLACE: Right. Right.

COHEN: And I'm --

WALLACE: And you're Sam Donaldson.

COHEN: -- the Sam Donaldson of the world. I mean, it's in the Venn diagram, I'm right there in the middle between Lucic and Donaldson. I backed right into it. I mean, it's kind of incredible.

WALLACE: And in college, you got to interview Susan Lucic and you say and we have a picture of it. You say that it changed your life.

COHEN: Well, it did. It -- I was in a news writing and reporting class. I was a broadcast journalism major at Boston University.


And I had a professor who said, OK, this assignment is, you know, interview someone and write a profile of them as an interview. And he said shoot for the stars. And so I sent letters to Sam Donaldson and Susan Lucic, and I wish I had a copy of the letter I sent to Lucic's publicist, but it was good enough that she said yes, you can do this. And I flew to New York and Susan Lucic took me to lunch and --


COHEN: It really did because I was at that time such an "All My Children" fan and I was like wow, there's a whole business behind this universe and it's not just fun and games that I see on TV and it just -- it pulled back the curtain in a way and it also showed me that I could do it and, you know, I have the interview on tape, on audiotape. I am just talking over her the whole time. I mean, it's just as bad as it could be. But it did change my -- it showed me the possibility of the world out there and that I could be part of it.

WALLACE: You have talked about the struggle that you had coming to terms with and particularly sharing the fact that you are gay.


WALLACE: I think reading about the Dianna Ross poster on your bedroom.

COHEN: Wall.

WALLACE: Wall was kind of an early tell.

COHEN: It was kind of a giveaway, yes.

WALLACE: Yes. But when you finally came out.


WALLACE: To the public.


WALLACE: It was on a "Real Housewives" reunion.

COHEN: That's true.

WALLACE: Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a figure of speech. Like he wasn't calling the instructor gay. He was just saying this -- I guess what he was doing, he felt like, you know, whatever. It's just a figure of speech. I think everyone in Jersey says it.

COHEN: I'll jump in, and I have no business jumping in but I'm gay and I thought it was offensive. I mean, I just want to say because --


COHEN: What --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you don't hang out with him either so you --

COHEN: I mean, and I'm not saying your husband is homophobic. I'm saying I think it was offensive. I do.


WALLACE: Do you think the fact that you're all over TV has helped erase the stigma for people for whom it is a stigma about being gay in America at this point?

COHEN: I think visibility is very important. And I've talked to a lot of moms who watch "Housewives" with their sons who their sons later said I'm gay. And so the answer is I hope so. I certainly hope so. It would be nice. When I was growing up, it was Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly who were often, you know --

WALLACE: The "Secret Square" or something.

COHEN: Yes. The "Secret Square" and the joke teller and the -- you know. And so it wasn't necessarily, though some would argue that I have a bit of Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly in me. It wasn't necessarily who I aspire to be at that moment, but I wanted to be myself on TV, and the fact that I've been able to do that is a great -- makes me really happy.

WALLACE: Well, part of being yourself is you are the father of two beautiful little children, Benjamin and Lucy.


WALLACE: You can see we have pictures of them here who you're raising as a single dad.


WALLACE: How rewarding is that? How tough is that?

COHEN: It's both. It's both. I feel like the -- I have a new book coming out in May called "The Daddy Diaries."

WALLACE: Yes, that's right.


WALLACE: When you need the fifth book.

COHEN: Exactly. And it's called "The Daddy Diaries: The Year I Grew Up." And this year Lucy was born and it feels like 54 years in I've been waiting to grow up and that I felt a weight about me that I've never felt before, frankly. And I didn't even feel with one. With two, it's intense. And it's wonderful and it's rewarding, and I have so much gratitude. And I also just feel so much calmer than I've ever felt, and I spent so much of my life partying and running around and getting on planes, and being, you know, wild that, you know, I spent Christmas at home looking at a lot of people that I know in St. Barts on Instagram and all this stuff. And I was like, I'm exactly where I want to be. This is great. So that

happened. Having a kid late in life, having kids late in life, that was perfect for me. Because when I had them, I was exactly who I wanted -- where I wanted to be and who I wanted to be so them coming in, I could now devote everything to them which is great.

WALLACE: Still to come, the Barefoot Contessa's recipe for success. Foot Network star Ina Garten tells me why she swapped a job in the White House for white bean stew.


WALLACE: I guess the question I still have is what were you thinking?

GARTIN: I have no idea.






WALLACE (voice-over): She's known to the world as the Barefoot Contessa.

GARTEN: I love to do something really special tonight. It tastes great.

WALLACE: Ina Garten has been a staple on the Food Network for two decades, bringing easy to make meals into millions of homes.

GARTEN: There are all kinds of theories about how to stop crying when you're peeling onions. I haven't found a good one yet.

WALLACE: Her admirers say part of her appeal.

GARTEN: Looking good.

WALLACE: Is that her cooking tips feel like advice from a big sister.

GARTEN: I'd say we have a nice dessert for the party.

WALLACE: But life hasn't always been a dinner party. Ina spent her early career in Washington crunching numbers instead of nuts.

GARTEN: I used to dream of a job where all I had to do was cook all day long.

WALLACE: She's not only realized that dream, Ina has far surpassed it.

GARTEN: Just drizzle it on.

WALLACE: And now she's cooked up a new project she hopes will continue to delight her fans.

GARTEN: That's just perfect.


WALLACE: Ina Garten, welcome. It is so great to sit down with you again.

GARTEN: I always love to see you. Thank you.

WALLACE: Let's start with your 13th and latest cookbook "Go to Dinners." And I have a question.


What does that mean? Go-to?

GARTEN: Go-to means, they are dinners that you've made, and you just go, "I want to make that over and over and over again." It's like, you've got like a list of things that you know, are going to work and they are going to be like crowd pleasers, and everybody is going to love them, that sort of go-to dinners.

WALLACE: And is it that it's easy, or just that, you know it's going to be --

GARTEN: It could be anything. It could be something that you think is so delicious, you can't believe it, or it's so easy to make that nobody knows how easy it is. It could be, whatever does that appeals to you. And I just think there are certain things even, I after 13 books, I mean, how many recipes have I written? A thousand recipes in those books, and there are certain recipes I go to all the time, like an apple tart and back to basics.

And, just there are things that you just -- roast chicken, you just -- they are go-to recipes.

WALLACE: Let's talk about your food empire. You have sold more than seven million copies.

GARTEN: We have like 14 million in print.

WALLACE: I stand corrected. You've had your show in the Food Network for 20 years. How would you describe how you have built your brand over these last two decades?

GARTEN: You know, one of the things I do -- I don't have a grand plan. I really just do what I love to do. I get up in the morning, I think, "What do I feel like doing today?" And I think, "I feel like testing recipes." And so that's what I do.

And in the middle, I do a little TV because I think it's important for people to know how to do something. I mean, it's one thing to read a recipe on a page, but it is another thing to see somebody actually do it. WALLACE: Are you really saying -- because I think you're somewhat

underselling yourself? Are you really saying that all of this just happened? There must be at various points, had been, some thought about --

GARTEN: I would say every 20 years, I get incredibly bored, and I just go, "Okay, I have to change all of this." If I wake up in the morning, and I'm not a little scared about what is -- how this is going to work out, I'm not happy.

WALLACE: Okay, so let's go back, mid-70s. You're in Washington, DC, working in the Ford and then the Carter administration and you're writing budgets for the government's nuclear energy programs. One, how did that come about? And two, how was that for you?

GARTEN: I started in -- I mean, I worked at the Federal Power Commission and worked through a few jobs and ended up a year-and-a- half later in the White House legislative office. So we would write -- do a write-up of whatever legislation came to the White House, so the President would know whether to sign it or not sign it.

I mean, I don't know how I just figured out how to do it. But of all the legislation that we did, I was really interested in science. And so I got very close to the people who were doing science and technology, and they had an opening for somebody in the nuclear energy area.

WALLACE: And as you say, at the end of, what was it? Twenty years, but at the end of that career, you suddenly got bored with it and now, we get to 1978 and you know, I find this story really remarkable. I know it is out there.

You see an ad, a small ad in a newspaper --

GARTEN: A terrible ad.

WALLACE: For a food store in the Hamptons, called the Barefoot Contessa, you decide to flip careers, you and Jeffrey, your husband, who we will get to in a little bit later decide to buy and I guess the question I still have is, what were you thinking?

GARTEN: I have no idea. I thought it would be fun.

I mean, I remember coming into the small town, West Hampton Beach, and it's literally one block long and there was this little specialty food store. It was like the size of this table, and they were baking chocolate chip cookies, and I thought nuclear energy budgets, chocolate chip cookies, I'd rather do that. Literally, it was that thoughtful.

And I made the woman a very low offer thinking well, she'll come back, we'll negotiate. I'll have time to think about it. And she called me the next day in my office and said, "Thank you very much. I'll accept your offer." And I went, "No shit."

WALLACE: Fortunately, we're on cable, so you can say that.

GARTEN: "I actually have to do this."

WALLACE: Then in 1999, you write your first cookbook, "The Barefoot Contessa." It ends up becoming so successful, it is a bestseller and the Food Network comes after you to start your own show, and for a good period of time you say no.

GARTEN: A year and a half. I said, "Lose my number." I just -- I didn't think that anybody would want to watch me on TV. I didn't know what they saw. And --

WALLACE: Why didn't you think --

GARTEN: I don't know, I just couldn't. I've never done TV, and I just didn't -- I couldn't imagine that. I mean, it was the era of nigella was Nigella Lawson. Nigella Lawson was on TV and she was so sexy and, you know, the spaghetti and you know, it is just -- I just thought that's not who I am.

But they just -- they were very persistent and they found a producer whose work I liked. And they called and said, "We hired him. They're coming to your house in two weeks." So I was like, "Whoa, I didn't say I was going to do it." And they said, "Just do a few shows and see how it goes."

WALLACE: Okay, so in 2002 you start your show and given that you've got to brand to sell, it is called "The Barefoot Contessa" and we have a clip from your very first episode.

GARTEN: You do?

WALLACE: Yes. Here it is.




GARTEN: And this just looks wonderful. It's all the yogurt and the olive oil and fresh rosemary, lemon zest, salt and pepper. And then the last thing I'm going to put the lamb in. This is a really gooey messy part.

A cook's best tools are clean hands and that's what I'm using. So you take all the lamb, and you put it right into this marinade, and you schmutz it around Ah. It is so, oh, it's good and messy.


WALLACE: You know, that's a technical term "schmutz."

GARTEN: Schmutz.

WALLACE: Yes. GARTEN: It is a cooking term.

WALLACE: How would you rate yourself as a TV professional or a cook back then?

GARTEN: I remember when I saw that first show and we were still filming. They sent the film back to London because the producer was from London. And they showed it to me and I said, "It's actually not as bad as I'd feared."

I mean, it's like, it was okay, which shocked me. And I was --

WALLACE: I was going to say for a first show, you were unbelievably natura. Well, okay, so over the years, you and the show have grown and we want to show the new improved professional Ina Garten. Here you are doing your engagement chicken, which you call because a lot of couples have gotten married over this meal.


GARTEN: Salt, pepper on top. I want this to be the best chicken ever.

Now, who wouldn't want to marry you if you've made this? Perfect roast chicken.


WALLACE: I've got to say that is mouth-watering. That looks good. Sensational.

GARTEN: Thank you.

WALLACE: So, I love talking to people about their process. What is your process in creating a recipe? How painstaking is it?

GARTEN: I start out with -- I have a list of maybe 75 recipes that I'm always working on. So, I get up in the morning, I look at that list, and I go, "Lentil salad sounds really good today." So I'm going to make lentil salad. And I have a flavor and a texture in my head that I'm kind of working towards, and then I might read what other people say about lentil salad, and then I put away the books and I just start making lentil salad.

And that's actually a good example because there is a very elusive flavor in lentil salad that I couldn't figure out what it was. Eventually, I went to France. A friend said to me, "Oh, what people do -- what French women do is put a turnip when they are cooking the lentils, and then they throw the turnip away." So it's that kind of elusive turnip flavor that gives it the depth of flavor that I was looking for.

WALLACE: How did you know that's what you --

GARTEN: Because I've tasted lentil salad in France, and I knew that there was a flavor in there that I was missing when I was cooking. And I wasn't happy until I got there. There is like this little ping that goes in my head when I just go,

okay, that's what I was looking for.

WALLACE: And then once you create it, you've got to be sure that the recipe is duplicatable.

GARTEN: That people can use it.

WALLACE: Right. How does that -- what happens then?

GARTEN: So, I have two people who work for me. One is a better cook than the other and I give them both separately different days, a piece of paper because everybody gets a book with a piece of paper on it that says "Cook this."


GARTEN: And I watch them cook it and they go, "Well, did you want the carrots cut straight across or diagonally?" I think, "Oh, I forgot to write that." So we may make that recipe ten, twenty times between what I've done and what my assistants have done, because I want to know how somebody is going to use it. It's not that it worked for me. I want to make sure it works for you.


WALLACE: When we come back, now, Ina's thoughts about cooking and entertaining changed in the wake of the pandemic.

And we test whether her love for her husband Jeffrey is still rock solid after half a century of marriage.


WALLACE: Has Dwayne Johnson kind of call him yet? If it is him or Jeffrey?




WALLACE: Ina Garten is not only known for her savory recipes, she is also famous for throwing dinner parties. So like the rest of us, when the COVID pandemic hit, Ina's routine changed, especially when it came to cook.


GARTEN: I came to the conclusion after having you know, working on writing a cookbook, some testing recipes for that. I was helping people on Instagram, trying to figure out what to do with those white beans that they had in their pantry and they bought, but didn't know what to do with it. So I was making recipes for Instagram. And then I realized I had to make dinner for Jeffrey and me, too,

lunch and dinner. And I thought this is crazy, it is just exhausting and I'm going to have to simplify it.

And what I realized is, every once in a while, I'd make like an omelet and you know a grilled piece of bread and we'd have fruit for dessert and it was just so simple and satisfying.

WALLACE: And I gather you've become a little bit less -- I'm trying to pick the right adjective here --

GARTEN: Without insulting me.

WALLACE: No. a little bit less strict about the idea about homemade versus store bought.

GARTEN: You know, one of the things that's happened is that there are some ingredients in the market, like I don't understand why anybody would want to make a vanilla ice cream. There is perfectly good vanilla.

WALLACE: Nobody wants to make vanilla ice cream.

GARTEN: Exactly. People still do, but I don't. And there are great baguettes. There's great bread in the marketplace that didn't have, you know, 25 years ago.

So I just -- I like to concentrate on the stuff that you can't get, like a good roast chicken. You can't buy good roast chicken in the market. If it comes out of the oven, it makes the house smell good, it is a whole different experience.

So those are the things I like to concentrate on, but I like to use things that are like one of the things I've been doing is, instead of stuffing a chicken or a turkey or whatever you might want to stuff, I make a bread pudding.


GARTEN: So I make -- instead of cutting up the bread and toasting it so that it absorbs the pudding mix, I just -- I buy Pepperidge Farm Stuffing Mix.

WALLACE: Oh, my God.

GARTEN: And I put it in there with mushrooms and gruyere and I have to tell you, nobody knows that the stuffing mix is in there, but it's so much easier. And so why not?

WALLACE: One of the things that you advocated during the lockdowns was drinking. Here is --


WALLACE: Here is a look.


GARTEN: Two cups of vodka. Good vodka. Have to shake it for 30 seconds. You have lots of time, it is not a problem.

Stay safe. Have a very good time. And don't forget the cocktails. Delicious.


WALLACE: That video of your you and your giant Cosmopolitan.

GARTEN: Don't miss the hair. That was COVID hair, too.

WALLACE: Nobody has noticed the hair. They are looking at the drink. It has been viewed more than three million times.

GARTEN: Seriously?


GARTEN: That's -- and it was just a lark. I had enough ingredients to make one large Cosmo, and I started pouring stuff in. I set up the camera. I was by myself, pour the stuff in, you know everything together and I poured it into this -- into the biggest cocktail shaker I had and poured it.

And I remember thinking, "Oh, my God. I think I did it." So I sent it to a friend of mine who is a film producer, a famous film producer, and I said, "Is this okay?" He was like, "Post it now." So I did and I thought a few people would think it was fun. Little did I know --

WALLACE: Three million views.

GARTEN: I think it is going to be in my obituary. There is going to be a little video of that.

WALLACE: Your fans know that we have left out a big part of the story. You referred to it briefly before, when you were 15 years old. You go to visit your brother at Dartmouth College and a fellow student bear named Jeffrey Garten spots you.

How quickly did the two of you become an item?

GARTEN: He was in the library with this roommate, and he said, "Oh, look at that girl." Remember, I'm the only girl walking around the Dartmouth campus in October, and --

WALLACE: It was old men at that time.

GARTEN: Old men, then. And it was his roommate from our tennis club, and my brother had fixed me up on a date with him. So he said, "Oh, I know who that is. That's Ina Rosenberg." And Jeffrey said, "Really?"

So after the date, he said to his roommate, so can -- "Are you interested in her or call?" He goes no, "She is an old friend. I'm not going out on a date with her." And Jeffrey wrote to me. Remember those days when people wrote letters? He wrote to me --

WALLACE: He wrote before he has actually met you?

GARTEN: No, I never met him. He just saw me.

WALLACE: So he is writing to you before he has met you.

GARTEN: Before, just to say, "Can I come to Connecticut and take you out?" and literally showed up six months later. I mean, I didn't. He remembered for six months that he had seen me on campus, which is amazing and he took me out.

We had a disastrous first date. I thought I'll never see him again. And he dropped me off and asked me to come to Dartmouth, which of course my father would never let me do. But he kept coming around.

WALLACE: So you and Jeffrey have been married now for 54 years. And he has become -- I mean, he is a very distinguished fellow. He is an Economics Professor. He was the Dean of the Business School at Yale.

He has also become a character on your show, and we have some clips.


JEFFREY GARTEN, INA'S HUSBAND: Are you saving these for anybody?

INA GARTEN: No, for you.


INA GARTEN: What do you think I'm saving it for?

JEFFREY GARTEN: Can I take a bite just to test?

INA GARTEN: Just to make sure it's okay. I would really appreciate it.

JEFFREY GARTEN: The best thing I have ever eaten.

Boy, that's good.

INA GARTEN: Is this the best fried chicken you ever had?

JEFFREY GARTEN: Next to the one you make, yes.

INA GARTEN: That's the right answer.

Are we getting in that time?

JEFFREY GARTEN: Yes, let's in there.

INA GARTEN: Let's get dessert in there.

JEFFREY GARTEN: You want to? Okay.

INA GARTEN: Okay, I'm coming in with brownie pudding. JEFFREY GARTEN: Give me that pudding.


WALLACE: So as you head into the property, your home in East Hampton, is the love story still going strong a half century later?

GARTEN: Yes. He's just-- he's extraordinary. He's really extraordinary. And, you know, he just makes me feel like I'm the only thing in the world that he cares about, which is wonderful, and I feel the same way about him.

WALLACE: That's pretty great.

GARTEN: It's pretty great.

WALLACE: Anyone who is as beloved and popular and successful as you are, is going to have critics, and one of the things that critics say -- just stealing this out there -- is that your food is too heavy. I'm sure you've heard that. It's got too much meat in it, too much dairy products, too high fat.

GARTEN: I think the AMA rates me a deep D minus or something.

WALLACE: Is that true?

GARTEN: I don't know, something like that.


GARTEN: But you know what? My food is real. And I think if you cook and serve real food, I think you're better, you're better off. I think it's healthier.

So everybody chooses how to -- what they like to eat, whether they want to eat fish and vegetables or they want to eat hamburgers in and baked potatoes, I think that my food is real and I think that's good for people.


WALLACE: And also, have a choice when you can eat, one kind of meal one day, and another meal on another.

GARTEN: Or have a grilled salmon and pie for dessert, you know, everybody makes their own choices. So...

WALLACE: Meanwhile you have started a new show on the Food Network called "Be My Guest."

GARTEN: I have.

WALLACE: Which is part cooking, part interview and we have a clip of you with wonderful actress, Emily Blunt.


GARTEN: If you could come back as anything, what would you come back as?

EMILY BLUNT, ACTRESS: Ina Garten. Please.

GARTEN: Be careful what you wish.

BLUNT: Okay.

GARTEN: How about we trade?

BLUNT: Okay, good plan.

GARTEN: Okay. Good.

BLUNT: Good deal.

GARTEN: Good deal.

BLUNT: You can do the sequel of "Jungle Cruise." Perfect.

GARTEN: I'd be really bad at it.

BLUNT: You'd be great. Big romance by Dwayne Johnson.

GARTEN: I am not sure he would want to romance me. You --

BLUNT: You never know. You never know. Watch out Jeffrey. Dwayne Johnson is coming for us.


WALLACE: If it is him or Jeffrey?

GARTEN: Jeffrey, every day.

WALLACE: Good. I was just testing you.

GARTEN: Not even close.

WALLACE: So you said you get bored, you want to try something new. Why this? Why do not only cooking, but an interview show?

GARTEN: You know, what I thought it would be interesting as you well know, it would be interesting to talk to people. I'm really interested in when people meet barriers and figure out their way around and they just don't stop.

And I think that's what successful people do, and each one of these guests has an incredible -- Emily Blunt had a debilitating stutter as a child and that actually led her to acting, amazingly. If she hadn't had the stutter, she might not be an actor.

So I started doing the show because I thought it would be interesting to talk to people. What I found out is it's so satisfying, those connections, just sitting and talking to somebody like this and having the conversation that you wish you always had at a dinner party, but you probably don't.

WALLACE: So I want to leave folks with one of your favorite recipes, Beatty's chocolate cake. What advice do you have for someone who has watched their show, watched you right there, and that looks sensational, but Ina Garten is a Master Chef, I can't do that.

GARTEN: I am actually not a Master Chef, and what I learned by writing cookbooks is it actually worked to my benefit, because I find cooking really hard. I find it really stressful. And I write recipes for -- so you can make things that are really simple and absolutely delicious. If you follow the instructions in that recipe, it'll come up perfectly every time.

WALLACE: And you say the most important thing is keep it simple and when you're entertaining, particularly keep it relaxed.

GARTEN: Because at the end of the day, the thing that makes a great party is that the host is having fun, and if the host or hostess is like crying and sweating and going crazy, nobody is going to have fun.

So you know what? Order a pizza, make a fabulous Caesar salad. Order an apple tart for dessert and have a really good time.


WALLACE: Coming up, the eight seconds, one of our upcoming guests we will never forget.



WALLACE: It is Award Season in Hollywood, which means it's time for daring red carpet outfits, acceptance speeches that go on to long, and in at least one case, famous people mispronouncing each other's names.


JOHN TRAVOLTA, ACTOR: Please welcome the wickedly talented, the one and only Adel Dazim.


WALLACE: John Travolta's flub introducing Broadway star Idina Menzel is one of the biggest Oscar fails in recent memory, but as you'll find out next week, for Menzel, it was so much more.


WALLACE: What was your immediate reaction when you heard that? And when did you realize what a huge gift he had given you?

IDINA MENZEL, ACTOR: Okay, so I had done a lot of preparation because I was super nervous about that night and I knew that it was going to be Meryl Streep and Brad Pitt sitting in the front row.

I had done a bunch of meditation about, you know, visualizing, manifesting that that night would go well for me, and I had also told myself, I was just going to sing to my son and just make it about singing to my son, Walker, and nothing else.

And so I had all this preparation going on and they get me out there and they set me and the spotlight comes on, and he says that, and I have about eight seconds to get my --

WALLACE: Together.

MENZEL: S together, and what goes through my head all in those eight seconds is, "Did he just screw up my name? Oh, my God. Why is this happening to me? This was my dream come true to be at the Oscars. Get over yourself. Stop having a pity party. Oh, my God, Brad Pitt is there and sing."

You know, it was all in eight seconds.

So -- and then it was just like sing to Walker, sing to Walker to get -- you know, be serious. So and then yes, I came offstage and then I realized that what a great gift it would be because I had all these followers in sort of the Broadway world and people that were saying, "How could you screw up her name?" But then there were all these people that didn't know me from other demographics and walks of life that maybe hadn't been to the theater and don't know that side, who said, "Who is this girl they're talking about?"

So then, you know, it actually widened my audience and ended up being a great thing. And now, it is fun to just laugh about and have you ever messed up somebody's name that badly?

WALLACE: Yes, but not at the Oscars and maybe not quite that badly.


WALLACE: You can watch my conversation with Idina Menzel and a sit- down with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi here on CNN next Sunday night.

And you can stream the full episodes with this week's guests, Ina Garten and Andy Cohen anytime you want on HBO MAX.

Thank you for watching. Good night.