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Who's Talking to Chris Wallace

Interview With Terry Bradshaw; Neil DeGrasse Tyson Talks To Chris Wallace. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired February 05, 2023 - 19:00   ET



SHERIFF MIKE BOUDREAUX, TULARE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: However, having said that, the motive is not exactly clear at this point.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: That was Josh Campbell reporting.

I'm Jim Acosta. See you back here at 8:00 Eastern right after "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" That's up next. See you soon.


My guests tonight include a football star and a man who's made actual stars his life's work.

Up first, a gridiron great, legendary quarterback and broadcaster Terry Bradshaw on his current fight with cancer, his Hall of Fame career, and his prediction for next week's Super Bowl.


WALLACE: Right now, who is going to win?



BRADSHAW: Right now I'm going to have to go with --


WALLACE: And later, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson has spent years making science cool for kids except for that one decision that turned him into public enemy number one for school children.


NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: Oh, yes. I have a file cabinet this deep, even from third graders. WALLACE: We have two things in common.

HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: Do I get a hint?

INA GARTEN, CHEF AND AUTHOR: I find cooking really hard. I find it really stressful.

WALLACE: Do you feel your life is in danger?

TYLER PERRY, ACTOR: And the love of my mother is what brought me here.

WALLACE: What was the worst investment?

MARK CUBAN, BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: There is a long list of really bad ones.



WALLACE (voice-over): The Super Bowl is set. The Philadelphia Eagles versus the Kansas City Chiefs, and who better to talk about the big game than --

BRADSHAW: Terry Bradshaw. That's be me.

WALLACE: Terry Bradshaw has been a familiar face on Sundays for more than 50 years. Most of them as a broadcaster.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now we head over to Professor Bradshaw.

WALLACE: And before that as a four-time Super Bowl champ and Hall of Fame quarterback for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

BRADSHAW: Pittsburgh, hey, I love you. Thank you.

WALLACE: The ultimate performer on and off the field. Bradshaw is now tackling one of the biggest challenges of his life. Two different bouts with cancer.


WALLACE: Terry Bradshaw, welcome. It is so great to talk with you again. Thank you for doing this.

BRADSHAW: Well, thank you for having me on. You know, I'm such a big fan of Chris Wallace and when I heard about this show, I told my wife, I love this guy. I just love his interviews. I like listening to him. So I hustled you.


WALLACE: Let me just say by the end of this half --

BRADSHAW: You didn't hustle me. So I thank you.

WALLACE: By the end of this hour, all of those feelings will have disappeared.

Terry, let me start with your health.

BRADSHAW: All right. WALLACE: Last October you shared with the viewers of "FOX NFL Sunday"

that you had two different cancers that have been diagnosed in the last year. Bladder cancer and an aggressive form of skin cancer in your neck. Here you are.


BRADSHAW: Folks, I may not look like my old self but I feel like my old self. I'm cancer free, I'm feeling great, and over time, I'm going to be back to where I normally am.


WALLACE: Well, where you are today, we're talking to you, Terry, is in New Haven where you're getting treatment at Yale Medical Center, I say this for all your millions of fans, how are you doing?

BRADSHAW: Right. I'm doing great, Chris. I am -- have had follow-up -- well, I'm doing follow-up treatments for the bladder cancer. I have three weeks -- one day a week and then I come back in 90 days and do it again.

When I first got the cancers, I was like, it didn't bother me. I felt like if I died from this stuff, I'm going to heaven and if I don't, then I get to sit here on earth and do football and be with my family and my gorgeous wife. So that's all good. I saw it as both sides.

The thing that's most unsettling is waiting for the report after you do all the tests like and then you get the phone call and it says you're cancer free. So that's the most stressful time now. It's like today, another treatment and then another one next week, and then you come back 90 days and you feel like you're going to be good.

WALLACE: Honestly, are you saying you weren't scared when you got not one but two different diagnoses of cancer?

BRADSHAW: No. No, I wasn't. I wasn't. I don't know why. I can't answer. It doesn't make sense. I know that. But as a man of faith, I just didn't worry about it when they said you got -- well, first of all, you say, well, how bad is it and can it be fixed? I mean, can you get over it? Can you get cured? And the answer in both cases were yes. Good enough for me. Let's get after it. And so that's how I approached it.


I never once, never once now did I ever think that I was going to die from either cancer. Now I can't tell you why but that is exactly the way I felt. I am more nervous waiting on the results after all the treatments.

WALLACE: No, I get that. Your wife, Tammy, was a radiation therapist for 10 years and she says that she was a lot more worried about all of this than she led on to you. How big a part has she been of your treatment and your recovery? BRADSHAW: If it had not been for Tammy, I would not have gone to the

doctor. She makes me follow up on all my scheduled medical stuff, and as I'm 74, so I go a little more often now than I used to. Had it not been for her, I would not have found out about the bladder cancer. Had it not been for her and the bladder cancer brought me to Yale because of her. If it had not been for her, I wouldn't have found the Merkel cell cancer in my neck.

I'm very blessed to have her in my life. Someone that loves me and cares about me and watches over me, not only because she loves me, but also she knows, you know, that --


BRADSHAW: I've got a lot of issues but they're medical.

WALLACE: Listen, you may --

BRADSHAW: You know what I mean.

WALLACE: You may not know this but they're playing a football game next week.


WALLACE: Super Bowl LVII. And I'm just wondering, when you look now at the teams that are in there, Philadelphia versus Kansas City, how does that shape up?

BRADSHAW: Well, I thought that Philadelphia would have a harder time with Cincinnati had Cincinnati got in because of their defense, but what I saw from Kansas City who had not played well defensively, had not been dominant but they had the potential to be, I saw them going up against Cincinnati and their defense was outstanding.

You know, the couple of big throws that Joe Burrow had were just great plays by the wide receiver, so that's changed my opinion a little bit. They will have to play well. They still have to play their best game to beat Philadelphia. Philadelphia will run the football and run, and they will run and they will run. And they will play great defense. And their quarterback Jalen Hurts is excellent. The ball thrower.

On the other hand, the last time we saw Kansas City go up against a great defense in a Super Bowl was when they lost to Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and they could do nothing like against that great Super Bowl -- in that Super Bowl. So I'm going to go back with Howie Long and we're going to look at the Tampa Bay game, and then look at the defense, and see what we can learn and how it applies to Kansas City.

Kansas City has Patrick Mahomes, and as long as they have Patrick Mahomes, they've got a shot for sure.

WALLACE: I first met you when I was working at FOX and whenever FOX Sports was covering the Super Bowl, I would somehow convince my bosses that I needed to do my news show from the side of the Super Bowl. And here is one of our exchanges in Miami in 2020.


BRADSHAW: I'm 71. How already out?

WALLACE: I'm 72.

BRADSHAW: OK. I've got a better chance than you have.

WALLACE: Wait a minute, when you were winning all those games with Pittsburgh, you were younger than I was?

BRADSHAW: One year it looks like.


WALLACE: (INAUDIBLE) crazy. We're done.

BRADSHAW: Who are you picking in the game?

WALLACE: You guys don't tell ahead of time.

BRADSHAW: Yes, I'll tell you. Who are you picking?

WALLACE: You're going to tell first.

BRADSHAW: I'll go 49ers. Who you going with?

WALLACE: Kansas City.

BRADSHAW: Well, that's the dumbest pick I ever heard in my life.


WALLACE: Incidentally, Terry, my prediction looks a little better in the aftermath of that Super Bowl three years ago so here's my question, and I fully grant you the right that you may change your opinion as you and Howie go over tape and all of that stuff, right now --


WALLACE: -- who is going to win?

BRADSHAW: Right now?


BRADSHAW: Right now I'm going to have to go with -- boy. My wife is here. She's a Chiefs fan, Chris. I'll pick -- I'll go with the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes, and expect their defense. I know. This is terrible. I know.

WALLACE: That was the most --

BRADSHAW: I'm such a wuss. I had been very good on picking games this year and I did pick the Chiefs, I did pick the Eagles. Both go to the Super Bowl. So I've got a good thing going there. But the more I study, the more stuff I gather, the more confused my brain gets. And so -- but I am married to a Chiefs fan so if the Chiefs don't win, no biggie. At least my wife is happy with me, my pick.

WALLACE: And that's the most important thing. I mean, you know, nobody is going to remember the prediction except for Tammy.

I loved talking to you and the "FOX NFL Sunday" gang.


I mean, it was such a delight and we have a montage of some of your clips with the gang over the years. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terry, you're going to be a little bit slower Mark, I mean, Lamar Jackson. All right?

BRADSHAW: I'm 74 years old. Of course I'm slower.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This show has never been more awkward.

BRADSHAW: Everybody is standing right here has had a defining -- everybody here has had a defining moment.

I lost a million bucks last week. The last time I lost a million bucks, I had a bad prenup.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, we in the same club.

BRADSHAW: I'm going to go with the Saints, may get some of my money back.


WALLACE: So honestly, do you guys really get along that well?


WALLACE: No rivalries? No fighting for air time?

BRADSHAW: No. You kidding me? We are all proud of one another's accomplishments. As players we're proud of one another's accomplishments in television. As a matter of fact before I came over here today, I've got a text from Howie wishing me luck today. I mean, you know, that's the kind of friends that we are. We're very close, all of us. We're not selfish. We're not jealous of one another's money or success or anything like that.

It just is a very unique bunch of men and as we're getting older, I'm sure FOX is hoping that we stay healthy so we can continue doing the show, which by the way has been number one for 29 years now, which is amazing.

WALLACE: Coming up, we turn to Terry's storied playing career including his two famous plays which he barely remembers and the 50- year-old stigma that still gets under his skin.


BRADSHAW: I'm fine with it. We move on. But being honest with you, does it bother me? Yes.



WALLACE: For younger generations, Terry Bradshaw may be that good old' boy on "FOX NFL Sunday," but for those of us around in the '70 he was a great quarterback who led his team to four Super Bowl victories. And along the way his highlight reel includes some of the most memorable plays in football history.

You were the number one pick in the 1970 draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers out of Louisiana Tech and two years later, you were involved in a play that is still considered the greatest play in NFL history. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bradshaw trying to get away. And his pass is broken up by Tatum. Picked off. And he's over.


WALLACE: That is the immaculate reception as it was known for -- it will be known forever. Couple of things, you say that that was the worst pass you ever threw. Why?


BRADSHAW: That was a lie. I didn't mean that.


BRADSHAW: It was a -- it was a play, it was the fourth down play and I threw the ball and went down on the turf, and got hit, heard the roar of the crowd and then I got to thinking, wow. You know, that's some kind of throw right there. I knew it was a touchdown. So I'm thinking endorsements, movie deals are going to come my way. And it just -- this is a big moment, you know, for me. And so I got up and started jogging and the place is doing crazy and I'm, you know, I'm waiting for someone to say way to go TB, nice throw. Got none of that.

WALLACE: Nobody was saying, asking you to say, where you going after this game and you could say Disneyland? BRADSHAW: No, no, none of that. And then after you see all of that,

really? So now it's -- yes, it's not one of my best throws. Certainly ended up being my best throw, which is ironic and then of course, the great Franco Harris, one of my dear friends, passed away a few weeks back and so -- right before he had his number retired and the immaculate reception was being celebrated for 50 years in Pittsburgh. So while it was a great play for all these years, it was a sad moment when we -- when he finally got to enjoy that moment and then he passed away. So --

WALLACE: I got another memory for you and another past because in 1976 at another Super Bowl, you threw what is generally considered the greatest pass of all time. Let's take a look at that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here is Bradshaw, father from behind. Lynn Swan is open. Got it. Steelers touchdown.


WALLACE: What do you remember about that play?

BRADSHAW: I don't remember anything. I got knocked out. Another -- you're playing plays that I don't see. I was good at throwing it deep. I wasn't very good throwing it short but I was pretty good at throwing it deep.

WALLACE: You were good at throwing the ball. So let me ask you because the one thing these two plays have in common is you say that you were knocked down and almost knocked out in the second play. How many concussions do you think you suffered over the years?

BRADSHAW: Oh, I think most athletes when you ask them that will tell you a concussion to me is being, you know, knocked out. So I probably had no more than six knocked totally out. I went to a clinic one year, one off-season and got tested, the brain, for three days and come to find out, with all the scars on your brain and everything you've actually had quite a few concussions.


So, yes, I think back in the -- up until they started changing the rules we had players were taking some pretty serious shots to the head.

WALLACE: So let me ask you, Terry, do you think football is too dangerous, especially the head traumas?

BRADSHAW: No, no, I would have to say no. It's dangerous. Look, it is a tough sport. You better be pretty courageous and fear no evil basically. It was something we grew up with. It's something that I love. Being hurt or getting hit is all part of it and we accept it. And I think that's where we differ from maybe you, Chris, and some other people, is that we accept it and it's hard for a lot of people to accept it and I don't except CTE results. I don't accept a brain damage that we're fighting.

I don't accept the fact we have so many of these players can't be diagnosed with CTE until it's too late. I don't think it's too rough. I played it. So obviously, I don't think it's too rough. I loved it. I enjoyed it. I was proud of myself, Chris, as a player, as a quarterback, as most quarterbacks I would think are. We have to stand in there and trust a bunch of people around us or else we just -- we just get slammed and they still get that today but the NFL has done I think a really good job of promoting taking the head out of the equation.

You can't hit with the head. Protecting the quarterback. And so the improvement in the helmet is certainly better. But you're always going to be dealing with this and Chris, if we lived 20 more years, you and I would do another interview, you're going to ask me that same question again and I'm going to give you the same answer. No, I'm kind of a gladiator. I enjoyed being in that arena. That's a scary arena to be in.

WALLACE: I love that and I look forward to an interview in 20 years. That's a date. You had to deal, Terry, with another issue when you were playing and this was the wrap that you were, forgive me, dumb, and Hollywood Henderson famously said, you know, he couldn't spell cat if he was spotted a C and an A. Did that talk get to you? Did it get under your skin?

BRADSHAW: Yes, oh, yes, absolutely. The dumb image I have yet to figure out. A lot of interceptions my rookie year but my rookie interception record initially was broken by Peyton Manning, considered one of the smartest quarterbacks. I threw 25, he threw 28. So I've -- I am upset. I do get upset by the dumb image. I don't like it being brought up, and I think probably some of my anger and frustration with it is I didn't get enough support.

I didn't feel like, personally, I didn't get enough support from Pittsburgh. I thought Chuck Noll could have stepped in and said that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard of. After all, I called my own plays. Can't be too stupid in calling your own plays.

WALLACE: Yes, Chuck Noll, we should tell people who aren't as old as you and me that he was your coach at the Pittsburgh Steelers.

BRADSHAW: Right, head coach in Pittsburgh. But I have taken that image and had some fun with it. You know, I'm kind of -- as you will know, Chris, I'm -- I like to have fun in interviews, I like to entertain people. If it's at my expense, I'm fine with it. But there are times, there are times even at FOX when it's Terry's always, you know, the goofball, and there are times where I'm, I don't say anything but I do say to myself, enough, you know, enough.

WALLACE: All right. That's enough of that.

BRADSHAW: Hey, it's -- hey, look, Chris, it's the bed that's made and I made it and I lie in it and I'm fine with it. We move on. But being honest with you, does it bother me? Yes. WALLACE: Still to come, happier times in Terry Bradshaw's life outside

of football including the decision that led to this hilarious phone call with his mother.


BRADSHAW: No, you're not. Yes, I am. You wouldn't do that to your sweet old mother. Yes, I would.





WALLACE: After hanging up his shoulder pads, Terry Bradshaw made a career out of smart and funny analysis on Sunday afternoon but he's also dabbled in some acting and a little singing.

You had quite a career outside of football and I want to talk about that a little bit. You say that music was your first love and in 1976 you recorded a song that actually made the billboard chart.


WALLACE: Take a look at this.


WALLACE: Did you think that you might have a career as a singer?

BRADSHAW: I wanted to be as gospel singer. I love gospel music. I grew up with the Statesmen Quartet. Football kind of got in the way.


But singing was always that was the thing that I loved. Always was singing, always thinking about being onstage, I always wanted to sing.

Football, like I said it got in the way of that.

And I remember one time I called -- and when you have a song out, you have to pick up the phone and call the radio station. Hi, it's Terry Bradshaw. I've got a song, "I'm so Lonesome, I could Cry." and I just want to thank you for playing it, or I want to ask you, will you play it?

And I'd call the Houston stations because we were -- right? I mean, the Oilers were huge, huge competitor of ours. I mean, tough team to beat played them twice a year. They said, well, you've got to us -- ugh, Houston. Hey, hey, this is Terry Bradshaw at whatever your call numbers are. I've got a song out called "I'm so Lonesome I could Cry." And I see you're not playing it and I sure would wish you would put it on your playlist. We're not going to put on our playlists. We're never going to put it on our playlist. Click.

WALLACE: Well? Come on. As it turns out, Super Bowl is stronger than recording. I want to ask you about acting as well, because you did some of that, including this memorable scene from "Failure to Launch."

BRADSHAW: Oh, boy.


AL, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: Hey, Tripp, what are you doing here?

TRIPP, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: I just came by to get some stuff. What are you doing?

AL: Feeding the fish.

TRIPP: Yes. I see that. You're naked in my room.

AL: What? This is my naked room. It is my house.


BRADSHAW: Hey, would you have done that?

WALLACE: No. But you could pull it off? So here's the question because you had said --


WALLACE: That acting is tougher than football. Any qualms about doing that scene?

BRADSHAW: I did that naked scene just to get a rise out of America, just to go have them go "Oh my God," I swear I did that because I said this is going to be so much fun.

I just didn't give it into account that I go to church every Sunday, and I didn't realize that when that movie came out on Friday, the preacher preached about the sins I had committed and how I was a bad example for young people and I left that church that morning after been there for so many years, never went back, never went back. I just couldn't believe he did that.

Then I had to call my mother, Chris. She said, baby, the church is going to go to see the movie after church today. Brother Rod has got the Church bus, and we're going. We've got a box cardboard -- a box of food, and we're going to go see "Failure to Launch."

I went, no. You can't go. And she says, well, why not? I said I'm naked. No, you're not. Yes, I am. I'm naked in the movie. No, you're not. Yes, I am. You wouldn't do that to your sweet old mother. Yes, I would.

Oh my God. I have enjoyed that scene so much over the years. I mean, so much. I can't tell you that was one of the greatest moments of my life was doing that scene with Matthew McConaughey. And being naked, I had no problem doing it. You see from the backside, it's almost a melodrama, had they filmed me from the front side, then it would have been a comedy.

WALLACE: You know, you have this image and your beloved as a good old boy. But you're more complicated than that. You say that you suffered from depression and anxiety for years. You say that you wanted your football career to hurry up and be over with so that you could get off the stage.

You say when you won Super Bowls, it was miserable because you felt more pressure to do it again.


WALLACE: What was going on there?

BRADSHAW: Right. I never could accept -- my wife will tell you this -- I never can -- I'm not good at accepting compliments. I'm not good at winning because winning means I've got to do it again, and I know how hard it was to get to win that one time, and the pressure was tearing me apart.

It's so hard to win a Super Bowl, and then you have to win another one. And then you don't win for a couple of years and you're old and then the negative comes in, then you win again. So, it is just like it's not fair. It's just so hard.

But that's -- you know, it's kind of a lot in life I have and I chose, but I couldn't enjoy it. I don't know why. I did not enjoy playing football because I could not accept it being so serious. It was always to me just a game, and I couldn't accept it being so serious.


BRADSHAW: And I couldn't understand people being so cruel and mean with their words, and I didn't enjoy that at all. That's why I like my life better outside of football because I get to entertain and make people laugh and have a good time, and that's the way I choose to live my life.

WALLACE: So let's end where we started looking -- what is the state of Terry Bradshaw today, both mentally and physically? How are you doing?

BRADSHAW: So mentally, personally, I'm extremely happy. I feel very fortunate about that. My health, as we're -- as you and I are talking now, Chris, it my health is good. So sometimes life is just too good, and we kind of like do this. Okay, all right, where's the vials? Kind of looking over our shoulder, but I'm a blessed man.

And I'm even more blessed Chris because you let me do this interview. Thank you for letting me hustle you to have me on.


WALLACE: Up next, from the pigskin to the planet as we tackle some cosmic question with world-class astrophysicist, Neil deGrasse Tyson. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: What about aliens? And what about UFOs?

NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: You mean aliens like with antennas and ray guns?

WALLACE: Yes, something more than a set?

TYSON: Okay.



TYSON: Look, this voyage, we are bound for a distant galaxy.

WALLACE: He has taken his love of the stars to a mass audience and given people a front row seat to some of the universe's biggest events.

TYSON: That first day began with the Big Bang.

WALLACE: Neil deGrasse Tyson's exploration of the cosmos.

TYSON: Where did we come from? How did we get here?

WALLACE: Has turned him into one of the most recognizable scientists today.


TYSON: Neil deGrasse Tyson, astrophysicist.

WALLACE: Now, he is applying the lessons he learned observing outer space to help bridge the differences that divide us, here on Earth.

TYSON: The cosmos is yours. Come with me.


WALLACE: Neil deGrasse Tyson, welcome. I'm delighted to get the chance to talk to you and I am -- this is a happy coincidence, I was going to wear that exact tie.

TYSON: No, you were not. You are lying.

WALLACE: I promise you, I do not have a tie like that in my closet.

TYSON: I've got about 110 ties, each one is sort of uniquely capturing some aspect of the universe as imagined, or rather, as felt through the eyes of an artist.

WALLACE: I want to start with your latest book, "Starry Messenger: Cosmic Perspectives on Civilization."

In your book, you use the device of say...


WALLACE: ... if they came here to Earth from outer space...


WALLACE: ... and they saw our wars, our politics, as you say, our inability to distinguish fact from opinion. So what do you think, said alien would say?

TYSON: So the alien comes upon Earth, beautiful blue marble, orbiting the sun, and there's oceans and land and clouds. And then they learn that there's a species that has spread itself across all the land, and so that is a very productive, very successful species.

And then they come down and they say, oh, wait a minute, that same species has drawn lines on this otherwise contiguous set of landmasses. And these lines, you can't cross them unless you have special papers.

Not only that, they've divided themselves by who they worship, what their skin color is, what their -- how they dress, where resources are, and where they're not on a level where they will even commit violence, even all-out war.

WALLACE: But we do have real differences. We do have serious differences between nations, between political parties. Are we just supposed to say from a cosmic perspective, they don't matter?

TYSON: No, no. In fact, the differences enrich the plurality of a nation, especially for a free nation. So no, I don't want to get rid of differences. I want to get rid of differences, that at their fundamental level are not different. You think they're different because you've dug your heels into some opinion, that is malformed based on what you think is true.

That's different from us agreeing what is objectively true, and then sitting down and saying, oh, what do you think about this? And then you share your point of view with me, as do I? And he said, well, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way. Oh, let's -- is there a way we can resolve this?

WALLACE: You have carved out a unique place for yourself in our intellectual life these days, and I think -- I don't know if you're going to object to this. I would describe it as the pop scientist.

Here you are on one of your many shows, "Cosmos: Possible Worlds." Take a look.


TYSON: Every month represents about a billion years, every day represents nearly 40 million years. That first day of the cosmic year began with the Big Bang, almost 14 billion years ago. Nothing really happened in our neck of the universe until about three billion years later, March 15th of the cosmic year when our Milky Way galaxy began to form.



WALLACE: How did you decide on this role? And do you get pushback from -- and I say this advisedly, serious scientists.

TYSON: That pop scientists role had already been carved by Carl Sagan. And whatever sort of blood on the tracks that left, I remembered hearing about this, that he was chastised by some of his colleagues for appearing on "The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson."

And this is a show that had huge reach into the taxpaying public, so at some level, we have a duty, if not an obligation to bring some of that back to the public. And yes, when I'm writing a book, I'm not doing the research paper, right? So there is a tradeoff often in that.

But no, I still have strong tap roots into the research community.

WALLACE: You were involved in the effort to demote Pluto, you even appeared on my favorite science show, "Big Bang Theory."


WALLACE: Here it is.


SHELDON COOPER, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: I'm quite familiar with Dr. Tyson. He is responsible for the demotion of Pluto from planetary status. I liked Pluto. Ergo, I do not like you.

TYSON: But I actually didn't demote Pluto. That was a vote of the International Astronomical Union.

COOPER: If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.


WALLACE: Is it true --

TYSON: What? For the evidence, I can't act really, but --

WALLACE: No, I think you did very well there.

TYSON: I did okay there? Yes.

WALLACE: Is it true that you got a hate mail for dissing Pluto?

TYSON: Oh, yes. I have a file cabinet this deep. Hate mail from third graders -- third graders. WALLACE: Listen, when I -- well, third grade, I learned how you can tell the planets from their distance from the Sun. Mary's violet eyes make John stay up nights. Period. Period, Pluto. Now there's no period.

TYSON: Yes, so deal with it. I am just saying.

WALLACE: All right, in a minute.


WALLACE: Why is Pluto not a planet?

TYSON: Oh, Pluto's orbit is tipped, significantly tipped out of the plane of orbits of the other planets. By the way, you know what else has tipped orbits? Comets. Okay.

More than half of Pluto's volume is comprised of ice. If you brought Pluto to where Earth is now, heat from the sun would evaporate that ice and it would grow a tail. That's no kind of behavior for a planet.

WALLACE: Do you believe that there is life out there somewhere?

TYSON: I would say that if there weren't life, it would be astonishing. If there were -- if given how common our ingredients are and how quickly life took place here and how many planets we know are orbiting host stars. It would be astonishing if that were the case.

WALLACE: And what about aliens? And what about UFOs?

TYSON: Well, to me any life is alien. You mean aliens, like with antennas and ray guns?

WALLACE: Yes, something more than a set?

TYSON: Okay. Something that could land here in a spaceship? It could be out there. There is no evidence that would convince an authentic skeptic that we've been visited. And I can tell you this, these fuzzy monochromatic Tic Tac that show up around the Navy, restricted airspace, in our own atmosphere, by the way, you've seen the high resolution images from a telescope we parked a million miles from Earth called the James Webb Space Telescope looking at the edge of the universe and the best you have of visiting aliens in our own atmosphere is a fuzzy Tic Tac? You've got to do better than that if you're going to convince an astrophysicist.

WALLACE: Your story begins when you're nine years old, and like every school kid in New York City, including me, you go to the Hayden Planetarium, but the difference is it changed your life. Why?

TYSON: Yes, so sometimes I wonder had I grown up on a farm somewhere, whether I wouldn't have been as starstruck as I was? Because there I am, a kid having grown up in the Bronx.

WALLACE: Right. TYSON: You sit in the chair, the lights dim, the stars come out, and there are more stars than I've ever seen in my life. It was a hoax for sure.

I know how many stars in the night sky, there are six visible from the Bronx. That was the night sky. No one in New York City has any kind of relationship with the night sky.

WALLACE: That's true. When you go out into the real world, it is like, where do all those lights come from?

TYSON: What are all those lights? So there, they dim the lights, and I'm struck by it. Whereas had I seen that every night of my life, this will just be, of course, this is just the night sky. So it just -- it hit me so. I don't think I chose the universe, I think the universe chose me.

WALLACE: You talk about your journey and you've used this phrase as the path of most resistance, a young Black kid from the Bronx becoming an astrophysicist. How tough was that path? And how important do you think it has been for people of color to see Neil deGrasse Tyson in the place that you occupy?


TYSON: I will invert that and say, how important is it for White people to see me where I am? That's a way more important force operating, especially if that is the community that wields resources and opportunities. And if you see a Black homeless person in the street, and you never saw a Black academically achieved other human being, you're prone to say, oh, that's just their lot in life.

But now, you'll see me and you'll see the Black homeless person, and you have to like deal with that. It's like, oh, my gosh, there, but for the lack of opportunity goes --

WALLACE: A lot of people.

TYSON: A lot of people. So I just want to put that up front. It was a path of most resistance. Because, yes, I was also physically fit and athletic, and you see a Black person who is that particularly in the day, you should be an athlete, and that just simply fulfills people's bean that they would put you because they've never seen your kind do anything else.

And my father, who was active with the Civil Rights Movement, and a sociologist, he had way worse life encounters than I did dealing with society, and he was never bitter. He said, these people don't know better. And so I've carried that with me ever since. I've never been bitter.

It just is and I'll deal with it.

It has forced to have me achieve that much more, to the extent that that ever becomes visible and will matter to anyone.


WALLACE: Remember the Hayden Planetarium he visited when he was nine years old? Well, now he runs the place, and he led it through a major $210 million upgrade, which has been described as the Hubble Space Telescope meets Hollywood.

Just ahead, we celebrate tonight's Grammy Awards with some of our own Grammy winning-guests, including a duet featuring a legendary country turned pop star and me.



WALLACE: Tonight, the world's top musical talent is gathering in Los Angeles for the Grammy Award. We've been lucky enough to talk with several Grammy winners on this show, including Shania Twain, Dionne Warwick, Gloria Estefan and Meghan Trainor, who have won a combined 14 Grammys.

In our conversations, they share their secrets for creating a Grammy- winning hit.



WALLACE: Just the song with the words and your sound and the guitar look, did you think to yourself, this is just going to be enormous?

SHANIA TWAIN, FIVE-TIME GRAMMY WINNER: I mean, I tried to get into the head of my personal fan self.


TWAIN: What do I want to listen to? What would I want to dance around the house singing?


TWAIN: But when you're first writing the song, there's no beat, there is no music, there's no production. It's just about the story and the lyric. And the hook, lyric, "Man. I feel like a woman" was very, very satisfying as a statement.


WALLACE: Is it true that the original name of that song was "Boogeyman's Gonna Get You?"

GLORIA ESTEFAN, THREE-TIME GRAMMY WINNER: Absolutely. A drummer had come to me with the idea of the hook, because then I co-wrote it with him because I go I have a small child. I am not singing the "Boogeyman is Gonna Get You." This is insane.

And I kept thinking what can we do that's not the boogeyman? And I thought what our music does, the rhythm is going to get you because wherever we went, whatever language they spoke, they were able to appreciate the rhythm and I changed it, thank the Lord.


WALLACE: You had the phrase "all about that bass," did you have a melody? Or did that just come to you in the chorus?

MEGHAN TRAINOR, GRAMMY WINNER, 2016 BEST NEW ARTIST: We talked about I think, how are you like, we like to do out music and we liked old school. And he played the tacky, upright bass sound on a keyboard. It was just like doom, doom, doom, doom, doom, and he started making like, record beats with it. It was very impressive.

And I was like, by the way I can rap and he was like, what? And I was like, I can rap. So the first verse should be like, "It's pretty clear. I ain't no size two," and we were just like, giggling. We were like, this is so funny and no one will ever sing this.


WALLACE: Black rock songs are not easy to sing are they?

DIONE WARWICK, FIVE-TIME GRAMMY WINNER: No, they're not. It was almost as if you were singing he is writing this ahead, because it's Dione who will sing this. See if she can do this.

WALLACE: Yes. I am going to put it through her pace.

WARWICK: Exactly.

WALLACE: All right, give me an example. I'm going to ask you to sing, give me an example of a tempo change or something that shows how hard it was.

WARWICK: Promises, Promises now, I don't know how I got the word to walk out --

You see how the tempo changed?


WARWICK: That's what he does.


WALLACE: It is safe to say, I won't be winning a Grammy anytime soon, but I couldn't pass up the chance to sing one of my guilty pleasure songs with Shania.


TWAIN: Uh-oh-oh. Totally crazy. Forget I'm a lady. Your man shirt, short skirts.

WALLACE: Yes, I like that part. TWAIN: Uh-oh-oh. And man, I feel like a woman.

WALLACE: I feel like a woman. Bump-bump, ba-dam.

TWAIN: Yes, you got the guitar part, too.


WALLACE: There is so much more in our conversations with all of these talented women, as well as our sit-downs this week with Terry Bradshaw and Neil deGrasse Tyson. You can catch our full interviews anytime you want on HBO Max.

And join us right here on CNN the week after the Super Bowl to find out WHO'S TALKING NEXT.