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Who's Talking to Chris Wallace
Jane Fonda Talks to Chris Wallace; Interview with Alejandro Mayorkas. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired February 19, 2023 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOOS: -- Vancouver fans.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: He is certainly my MVP. All right. You go, George.
Thanks for joining me this evening. I'm Jim Acosta. See you next weekend here on CNN. "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" is up next. Good night.
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST: Welcome back to WHO'S TALKING."
Tonight we sit down with Hollywood royalty. Legendary actress Jane Fonda in a raw and emotional conversation that frankly surprised us. She opens up about life, loss and a complicated relationship with her father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE FONDA, ACTOR: Before he died, I was able to tell him that I loved him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And wait until you see what led to this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: Are you married?
WALLACE: Yes. Why? Are you interested?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: But first, a crisis at the border. A spy balloon in the sky. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas has more to deal with than ever, and we talk about all of it including Republicans who want to remove him from office. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: How seriously do you take these calls for your impeachment?
We have two things in common.
HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: Do I get a hint?
INA GARTEN, CHEF AND AUTHOR: I find cooking really hard. I find it really stressful.
WALLACE: Do you feel your life is in danger?
TYLER PERRY, ACTOR: And the love of my mother is what brought me here.
WALLACE: What was the worst investment?
MARK CUBAN, BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: There is a long list of really bad ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: U.S. officials now saying the military just shot down yet another high altitude object.
WALLACE (voice-over): Mysterious threats in the sky. A stream of balloons and other objects at least one coming from China flying over the U.S. homeland. Raising fears of an international showdown.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If China threatens our sovereignty, we will act to protect our country.
WALLACE: Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas is the president's man tasked with keeping the country safe. His hands already full with a crisis on the ground, a record rise of migrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border. Mayorkas under fire for his handling of the surge.
ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We're here because our immigration system is broken.
WALLACE: And leaders of the House Republican majority want him out.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I am calling on the secretary to resign.
WALLACE: With his job possibly on the line, we find out what he's doing to keep the country safe from dual threats.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: Alejandro Mayorkas, welcome. Mr. Secretary, thank you for doing this. Great to talk with you again.
MAYORKAS: Likewise. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to it. WALLACE: Well, we're going to start in a slightly different area than
I expected to. We'll get to the border in a few minutes but let's start with balloons and all of these objects that the U.S. has been shooting down over North America the last couple of weeks.
Do you regard them as a threat to homeland security?
MAYORKAS: Well, Chris, let's separate it. The first one, of course, was sent by China to surveil the United States and invaded our sovereignty and of course the Department of Defense took action upon the president's instructions. The next three we were unclear exactly what they were. We assessed that they did not pose a physical danger to the homeland. However, they did pose a potential threat to civil aviation and we are going to protect the American people and so once again, the Department of Defense took action upon the president's direction.
WALLACE: Are these the other three, not the Chinese balloon, but the other three, do we have any idea whether they were sent by foreign actors, foreign countries, whether it's just some of the traffic that's always above the U.S. or as even been suggested, they're extraterrestrial?
MAYORKAS: Well, let's put aside that last one. But the assessment --
WALLACE: Just for the sake of argument, why?
MAYORKAS: Well, because I don't think our Office of Intelligence had announced it's going to be able to make that determination. But I think what the assessment is going to be based on is what we are able to recover and analyze. But there is a lot of traffic, if you will, in the skies, and number two, our capabilities are increasing to identify it. And I think that's a very important thing to keep in mind.
WALLACE: All right. Let's move to ground level. Three, three House committees, are currently investigating the border as a possible prelude to impeaching you as secretary of Homeland Security. Here is House Speaker Kevin McCarthy. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCARTHY: I am calling on the secretary to resign. He cannot and must not remain in that position.
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If Secretary Mayorkas does not resign, House Republicans will investigate every order, every action and every failure will determine whether we can begin impeachment inquiry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: If House Republicans go ahead, you could be the first Cabinet secretary to be impeached since 1876. How seriously do you take these calls for your impeachment? MAYORKAS: Well, I take them seriously. It is the leadership of the
House that provided those remarks. I don't dismiss it by any measure. But what I do is I focus on my work.
WALLACE: What do you think is the basis for them calling for your impeachment? Do you think you've done anything wrong?
MAYORKAS: No, I don't. I think it is a disagreement over policy, and I think it is used for political purposes to continue a negative dialogue about a migration challenge that is not unique to the United States, to continue that dialogue to uplift it for political reasons.
WALLACE: So, Mr. Secretary, have you come to a conclusion if these House committees either request you or subpoena you as part of either the investigation or an impeachment proceeding, have you decided whether or not you will appear before those committees?
MAYORKAS: I intend to appear when Congress calls me to do so.
WALLACE: House Republicans say that you have repeatedly lied to Congress when you have said this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYORKAS: The border is closed. The border is secure. The border is secure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Critics point out in 2020, Donald Trump's final year in office, U.S. border authorities encountered migrants 458,000 times at the border but under Joe Biden in 2022, there were 2.3 million encounters. How can you say the border is secure?
MAYORKAS: Right now the United States has millions of jobs opening due to the economic success of this administration. We have progressed in conquering the pandemic far more than the countries to the south of Mexico. And that makes the United States an appealing place of destination for people fleeing persecution or otherwise in desperate need of a better life.
WALLACE: But when you say it's -- what does secure mean to you? It certainly doesn't mean that people aren't able to get across the border illegally?
MAYORKAS: Of course not. That is -- by that measure, the border has never been secure, right? Since the Department of Homeland Security was created, individuals have evaded --
WALLACE: So by what measure is it secure now, sir?
MAYORKAS: So there is not a common definition of that.
WALLACE: What's your definition?
MAYORKAS: What our goal is to achieve operational control of the border to do everything that we can to support our personnel with the resources, the technology, the policies that really advanced the security of the border and do not come at the cost of the values of our country.
WALLACE: But on the question of security, we have all seen the scenes of floods of people walking across shallow points in the Rio Grande. We've all seen the pictures of encampments in downtowns El Paso, places in Arizona. We've all seen the pictures of the flood of migrants coming to New York. By those standards, it is not a secure border.
MAYORKAS: The vast majority of those individuals have not sought to evade law enforcement but have actually surrendered themselves to law enforcement and made a claim for relief under our laws. The challenge, the challenge is that between that time of encounter and the time of an ultimate immigration judge's evaluation of their claim for asylum is four plus years.
WALLACE: Critics say that when he took office, President Biden setting the policy, you enforcing the policy, sent a clear message to prospective migrants. He ended enrollments in the program that asylum seekers had to remain in Mexico. He wanted to stop using Title 42 public health protections to expel migrants and he halted construction of the border wall.
Here is the chief patrol agent, your employee, for the Tucson sector. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the Tucson sector, interviewing people post arrest, what became the most common response was that they believed that when the administration changed, that the law changed and policy changed and that there was an open border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:08]
WALLACE: Migrants believe there's an open border.
MAYORKAS: Chris, have you heard some of our political leaders speak about the border and communicate that the border is open? I don't think the more than 1.5 million people who have been removed or expelled from the border would consider the border open. But political leaders communicate that the border is open. That is music to the smugglers' ears and the smugglers themselves spread --
(CROSSTALK)
WALLACE: Wait, wait, wait, you're going to blame this all on Republican critics?
MAYORKAS: Well, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
WALLACE: I mean, you're not going to say that the administration and the policies, on Remain in Mexico or Title 42, or stopping construction of the wall, that that had no impact?
MAYORKAS: Chris, that's not what I said. I'm just -- I'm just citing for you a few things and please allow me. Number one, they used that rhetoric. Number two, we're dealing with smuggling organizations that are far more sophisticated than they were when I prosecuted them for 12 years as an assistant United States attorney and as the United States attorney. They spread disinformation. They spread misinformation and the like.
WALLACE: Let's talk a little bit about you because your life story is wrapped up in this whole question of migration. Your family left Cuba when you were a baby. I think you were 1 year old.
MAYORKAS: Yes.
WALLACE: And your mother, Anita, was already a refugee because she had fled the Nazis from Romania to go to Cuba and then fled Cuba to go to the United States with you and your family when Castro took over. How does all of that history shape your view of people crossing borders to improve their lives and escape violence?
MAYORKAS: My parents instilled in me the profound meaning of displacement, the yearning to give one's children a better life than what the life one has had. The fragility of life. And so I understand deeply the plight of individuals who leave their homes, whether they flee persecution or aspire to a better life. We are a nation of immigrants. We are also a nation of laws. Those laws provide for humanitarian relief for those who qualify. They also provide that individuals who do not qualify will be removed. That's how we do our work in the Department of Homeland Security.
WALLACE: And the slings and arrows of your critics on Capitol Hill, not going to force you out?
MAYORKAS: They will not force me out.
WALLACE: Up next, we sit down with an entertainment and cultural icon. Actress Jane Fonda who at 85 is definitely not slowing down. We talk about her latest movies, her new mission and a surprising reaction when I show her a clip from one of her most famous films.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You didn't watch that scene. Why not?
FONDA: Because it makes me cry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:17:23]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FONDA: So big. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
WALLACE (voice-over): A Hollywood legend back on the big screen, not once.
FONDA: Howard. I'm going to kill you.
WALLACE: But three times just this year.
FONDA: I'm an 80-year-old woman and I've earned the right to take my sweet (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time.
WALLACE: Jane Fonda's acting renaissance fallows a career of countless classics.
FONDA: I want to be your friend.
WALLACE: And decades of passionate protests, these days tackling what she says is the most important issue of her career, climate change.
Now Fonda opens up in a raw, emotional conversation about "Hanoi Jane," the relationship with her father and three husbands, and why she's not scared of dying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: Jane Fonda, welcome. I have been looking forward to getting the chance to sit down with you and to talk.
FONDA: I have, too.
WALLACE: Well, good.
FONDA: It's about time.
WALLACE: Yes. For both of us.
FONDA: Yes.
WALLACE: So, speaking of time, you turned 85 in December and you are busier than ever. You have three movies out this year.
FONDA: Yes.
WALLACE: You're resuming your climate protest where you sometimes get arrested and you've got your climate political action committee. So here is my question, Jane.
FONDA: Yes.
WALLACE: Why not just sit back and take it easy?
FONDA: What? That's -- that sounds so toxic.
WALLACE: Really? FONDA: Sitting back and take it easy? Look, if I had spent my life
working on a factory floor and not being paid enough and being bullied by my boss that's might be what I want to do. I've had a very privileged, interesting, exciting life, and to leave that and go and sit down and -- I mean, I've got a lot of energy. I've got a lot of ideas. We're facing a terrible crisis that just makes my stomach go like this, and I just -- I can't even -- I don't understand the idea of sitting back or retiring. I don't get it.
WALLACE: Well, you're not doing it.
FONDA: No.
WALLACE: So you're also, in addition to all of that, dealing with cancer and chemotherapy.
FONDA: Well, that's done with. But --
WALLACE: How are you?
FONDA: I'm great. I -- the year that I made three movies in, I had cancer and all kinds of other things that I didn't even know I had and I kept wondering, why am I so tired? I found out I had -- well, I don't even -- what did I have?
WALLACE: Non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
FONDA: Lymphoma. Non-Hodgkins. Yes. And it was the kind -- the very -- you know, it doesn't ever really go away.
[19:20:04]
But -- so I started chemo and then I was told in December that my cancer was in remission and I didn't need any more chemo.
WALLACE: So you're good?
FONDA: I am cancer free. There is no wood around here.
(LAUGHTER)
WALLACE: There's no wood around. Just knock on your head. So let's talk about the movies. "80 for Brady" is out right now. It's about four women of a certain age who decide to go on a road trip to see Tom Brady play in the Super Bowl and here are some clips.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is so great to meet you. Beauty has no expiration date.
FONDA: Wish. I didn't flirt. He did. Gronk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
FONDA: So big. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
TOM BRADY, NFL QUARTERBACK: Let's go.
FONDA: Oh my god that's Tom Brady.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: So why did you want to do this project? I mean, are you a big football fan?
FONDA: No, I'm a baseball fan. You always want to be in something successful. I think this movie is going to be very successful. And I thought, hmm, women and football. Older women and football is good to show the audiences that women are still -- they've still got it and they love sports and don't write us off.
You know, they say we're over the hill but you know what? I can say it with authority. You can be over the hill and then suddenly, oh, there is another hill. Oh, it's covered with beautiful flowers and there is another hill and all these landscapes to explore. Ain't over until it's over.
WALLACE: Well, in March you have another movie coming out, "Moving On" in theaters.
FONDA: I love it so much.
WALLACE: In which you play a woman whose best friend has died and which means that you can now settle accounts with her husband. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: Howard. I'm going to kill you. Now that she's gone, now that it can't hurt her, I'm going to kill you. This weekend. I'm going to do it this weekend. Howard, oh, Howard. Oh, you dear man. I'm so, so sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: Well, that's an interesting premise. So let me ask you a bigger question out of that movie. Where do you think the relationship between men and women stands in this country now? Is the story how much progress we've made? Or how little?
FONDA: I think how much progress we've made.
WALLACE: Really?
FONDA: Well, I'm big on celebrating victories. I think that, you know, certainly everything hasn't been cleared up and it probably never will but things are better. You know, when I started out, for example, on a movie set, I was always the only woman, and I can't tell you how not good that feels. Especially when there is sex scenes involved and stuff like that. I think, you know, the fact that we have so many great movies now with actors of color, that never used to be -- you know, I mean, we're making progress on a lot of different levels and I know that there is a lot of complaining about, well, it's gone too far and cancel culture and all that.
It's good. Things are good. We have a lot more to do. There is a lot more further to go but the first thing we have to do is make sure that we're going to survive as a species and a planet. But I think that a lot of progress has been made.
WALLACE: Well, let's pick up on that because Fire Drill Fridays, you spent 14 weeks in 2019 in D.C. protesting climate change, getting arrested five times and now, you are taking these protests to what you call the frontlines for greenhouse gases, places like Louisiana and Texas.
FONDA: Right. The gulf areas Texas and Louisiana is ground zero for the climate crisis. The Biden administration has permitted two dozen new gas terminals in an area where so many people are ill and dying from cancer and respiratory illnesses and heart disease. People of color, poor people, indigenous people, and now they're putting two dozen more terminals in. I mean, it's called cancer ally in Louisiana where all the refineries and petrochemical companies are.
It has to stop. It's not sustainable. We can't keep pumping things out of the ground when the scientists are saying we have to cut our fossil fuel emissions in half in eight years by 2030. I mean, they're hopeful that we can do it but we have to light fires under our elected officials which is why I started the Jane Fonda Climate Pact because we have to get rid of the elected officials that take money from the fossil fuel industry. They're always going to vote in favor of big oil. So we have to --
WALLACE: What is the pact? You're raising much for people who are conscious of the climate --
FONDA: Who are climate champions, who have taken stands against new pipelines or against fracking or against forever chemicals and they speak out against the fossil fuel industry that's killing us basically and killing animals, killing the ocean. And yes, we endorse candidates that are climate --
[19:25:07]
WALLACE: So did you do this in the midterms in 2020?
FONDA: Yes. Yes. We supported 60 candidates. 42 of them won. And because we're new, you know, and so we're small. You know, we're not the Koch brothers, so I supported a lot of down-ballot candidates and I traveled to those states, and boy, did I see what a difference we made. You know, we tripled the amount of money that they have been making and we got the press to come out and encourage volunteers. So it's just -- I'm just thrilled. I think it's the most important thing I've ever done in my life. So there's the pact.
WALLACE: Right. FONDA: Taking fossil fuels into the electoral space and then Fire
Drill Friday is a grassroots thing. My goal there is to speak to people who are concerned about the climate and encourage them to become active, activists, do something about it.
WALLACE: And on these Fire Drill Fridays, are you prepared to get arrested again?
FONDA: It depends on where I am. It depends on the situation. It also depends on, is there a lot of COVID there? I don't exactly want to be put into jail with the people who risk having COVID, you know, and are the police going to hit me? I'm too old to be hit. I got all my joints are replaced. I'm too afraid --
WALLACE: What do you think, though, you did in D.C. and that sounds to me like you are in some of these protests, what do you think you're getting arrested accomplishes?
FONDA: Attention. It gets attention. That's all. I mean, people -- this is what happened when I was getting arrested in D.C. for example. People were coming from all over the country and what was so great and it was exactly what I hoped for, is they were people who had never been to a rally before. Much less getting arrested.
And they spoke to me afterwards when -- I mean, we'd be in the holding pen together so we could talk and then afterwards we could talk and they'd tell me what a transformative experience it was for them. That's what I want is for people to understand how joyous it is to be able to put your body on the line for your core values, for your deep values.
WALLACE: Still to come, Jane's activism goes back more than 50 years including her most controversial protest she now says was a big mistake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: When you got that nickname, Hanoi Jane, how did you feel at the time?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:42]
CHRIS WALLACE, CNN HOST, "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE": For all of Jane Fonda's accomplishments as an actress, some people will never get past or political activism, and a nickname that stuck for more than half a century. We pick up our conversation with that part of her long and eventful life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: You know, Jane, as I listen to you, and I've been listening to you, as people of my age have for the last 50 or so years, I've heard you talk with equal fervor about Civil Rights and about the Vietnam War and about relations between men and women. And now, climate change. How does the flame burn so bright for you? How do you keep the sense of outrage?
JANE FONDA, CLIMATE ACTIVIST, JANEPACT.COM: How could I not? I don't understand -- I just don't understand how you can know what one knows if you decide to study a subject, like the climate, like the war in Vietnam, and now you know, like the climate crisis, and not be enraged?
I have a three-and-a-half-year-old grandson. Even if we do everything that's right, he may not ever see a sea turtle, he may never be able to scuba dive over a healthy coral reef, which I've done over the Great Barrier Reef and so many other places in the world. There are so many things that I have loved in my life that he may never know, and this just breaks my heart for him, but also for the turtles and the whales.
I mean, it wakes me up at night, but because I am -- I mean, I can get so depressed about it, but because I'm active and working together with other people who feel the same way and are far smarter than I am. It keeps me hopeful. Hope is an action. It's a muscle.
WALLACE: Your most famous protest was 50 years ago when you went to North Vietnam at the height of the war there, and you were photographed sitting on an anti-aircraft gun, here is the picture that was used to shoot down American planes.
Critics, and there were millions of them, called you a Hanoi Jane and said you were a traitor. And the question I have is, 50 years later, how do you look back on that particular chapter?
FONDA: It was a terrible mistake. I mean, the reality is, there were 24,000 American troops on the ground in South Vietnam. That's all. The ground troops were going home. The war was being fought by the air during the Nixon administration.
I spent many years. That is why I made coming home talking to American soldiers who had been in Vietnam and the things they told me were heartbreaking. They realized that the war was wrong, that we weren't wanted there and that we probably couldn't win it not because they weren't fabulous soldiers, but because of the nature of Vietnam.
McNamara said to me if we had known what we know now, it would have -- we should not have gone in. I mean, he realized that it was a mistake.
WALLACE: So when you say it was a terrible mistake.
FONDA: It was a mistake to go. I never wanted to go to any military installations. It was the last day of my two-week time there, and I was -- I was like a limp noodle.
What I had experienced and what I had seen, I just -- I wasn't able to resist. They said we're going to take you out here today, and I didn't even think. They sang me a song and it made me laugh. I sang a song that's what made me laugh and it was a terrible mistake because of the image that it showed, which was not at all what the reality was.
[19:35:14]
FONDA: And you know, maybe I was set up, but I was an adult. I'm going to take responsibility for it. If I was Vietnamese, I probably would have tried to do the same thing, you know, but I should not have done that. I should not have gone.
Hundreds of Americans had gone to North Vietnam -- journalists, diplomats, our Secretary of State Ramsay Clark, Vietnam veterans -- but I said, but a movie star hasn't gone and maybe if I go, it will draw more attention and that is what it did.
And four months later, the bombing stopped, of the dikes. So, I feel that what I did was good, . Except that I shouldn't have gone out to a military place.
WALLACE: When you got that nickname, Hanoi Jane, how did you feel at the time?
FONDA: Well, I didn't like it. I mean, you know, all manner of slings and arrows were thrown my way, but when you know why you did something, and you're willing to admit the mistakes that you made, but stand up for the things that you did that mattered, you're going to come through it okay.
And I refuse to have them scare me away from being actively against the Vietnam War. You know, I think they thought, oh, she's this White privileged rich famous daughter of all of that stuff. You know, we can scare her, and boy did they try. And the more they tried, the more I --
WALLACE: The more you what?
FONDA: I know what I'm doing. I dug in my heels. Screw you. I'm not -- you know, they all went to jail.
WALLACE: Who? The people in the Nixon administration?
FONDA: Yes.
WALLACE: Yes, they did.
FONDA: Yes.
WALLACE: Let's change topics here.
I want to talk about your movie career, and part of the joy of preparing for this interview is I watched clips, and they reminded me of the joy that I got watching a lot of your movies. Two movies in particular stood out for me. One of them was "Klute," in which you won the first of your two Academy Awards, two Oscars. Take a look.
(BEGIN "KLUTE" VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the difference between going out on a call as a model or as an actress or as a call girl? You're successful as a call girl, you're not successful --
BREE DANIELS, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: ... because when you're a call girl, you control it. That's why. Because someone wants you, not me. There are some jobs that I have regularly that want me and that's terrific. But they want a woman and I know I'm good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: When I first saw that, I thought "I've never seen anything like that. I've never seen anything so raw." You were pretty good in that movie.
FONDA: I was and that was a pretty good movie on every level -- the sound, the music, the cinematography, everything.
WALLACE: But scenes, to me always stood out. The scenes of you in therapy and you just reacting that way and baring your soul.
FONDA: They were improvised.
WALLACE: Really?
FONDA: Yes. Originally in the script, this therapist was a man, and I said to the director, Alan Pakula, Bree Daniels is not going to reveal herself to a man, it's got to be a woman therapist and let's wait and shoot it at the very end after I've got Bree inside my skin, and that's what we did and it was all improvised. It was great.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: Coming up, our conversation takes an unexpected turn, as Jane and I talk candidly about following in her famous father's careers, and she opens up about why she is done with men, and she is not scared about dying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FONDA: What I'm really scared of is getting to the end of life with a lot of regrets when there's no time to do anything about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:43:08]
WALLACE: Jane Fonda has been a movie star for more than half a century. But when I ran a clip from one of her most celebrated films, 1981's "On Golden Pond," in which she co-starred with her father, Henry Fonda, I was surprised by her reaction.
(BEGIN "ON GOLDEN POND" VIDEO CLIP)
CHELSEA THAYER WAYNE, FICTIONAL CHARACTER: It seems that you and me have been mad at each other for so long.
NORMAN THAYER, JR., FICTIONAL CHARACTER: I didn't know we were mad though. We just didn't like each other.
CHELSEA THAYER WAYNE: I want to be your friend.
NORMAN THAYER, JR.: Oh. Just remind you, you come around more often. You're like your mother.
CHELSEA THAYER WAYNE: I will call and come around more often.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: You didn't watch that scene. Why not?
FONDA: Because it makes me cry. I miss my dad so much.
WALLACE: That scene felt like more than a scene in a movie, it felt --
FONDA: It was. You know, I love my dad and admired him. He was quite a bit like Norman, removed, not able to express.
He always like to do things that were rehearsed a lot, and I purposely did something that hadn't been rehearsed because I wanted him to be surprised. And when I said, "I want to be your friend," and I touched his arm, we had not rehearsed that and he flinches. And he ducked his head and he puts his hand like this, but I saw that he was emotional. He didn't want --
It is funny for an actor who doesn't want to be seen as emotional, but he was terrified of emotions and that meant a lot to me.
[19:45:05]
FONDA: I went to his house that night. I wanted to talk to him about the scene, and because I'd had a lot of -- I had had a hard time with the scene, it was so personal, that when we actually got there to do it, I totally dried up. And I was -- it was, it's like an actor's worst nightmare, and I asked him afterwards at dinner, I said, "Has that ever happened to you?" "No." No, that's it. I couldn't get him to --
WALLACE: How was it to love this man, and for him, and you know, it's part of Hollywood lore, we've all read about it, that he was so emotionally withholding. I mean, I would think that would be tough.
FONDA: Well, it is. It is very common also, especially for women my age or boys and girls my age, it is not just women, whose fathers were of that generation, and especially Midwestern. You know, there was a certain attitude -- you know, it's like, you don't ever ask for anything, you don't express need, and you stifle your emotions.
And of course, when a figure of your love is withholding and repressed, you know, it has an impact on a kid and their relationships after they grow up.
I've been married three times. I just -- I didn't have a good hand dealt to me when it comes to relationships.
WALLACE: You were both crazy enough, foolish enough to follow our famous fathers into their professions. Did you resolve things with your father before the end of his life?
FONDA: That movie, "On Golden Pond" was kind of like a resolution in a way, my being able to say that to him in the scene and he died five months later. And before he died, I was able to tell him that I loved him and that I forgave him for, you know, whatever didn't happen, and I hope that he would forgive me for not being a better daughter. I got to say that to him.
He didn't say anything, but he wept. And I had never seen that before. I've never seen my father break down and weep. And it was -- it was powerful.
WALLACE: I have to say, I think it's one of the greatest gifts. I had a challenging relationship with my dad at various points and he lived long enough that we made it up and became best friends and I always felt that was such a gift, because I can't imagine going through life after it's too late and not having that resolve.
FONDA: Oh, it's so important to try to clear everything up before you go. You know, I'm not scared of dying. Are you?
WALLACE: I am not looking forward to it.
FONDA: I am. It's an adventure. I kind of -- you know, I don't want to go. I still have a lot to do. But I'm not -- I'm not. If it -- you know, if I discovered that I had cancer again and there was nothing I could do, . I'd be okay with it.
What I'm really scared of is getting to the end of life with a lot of regrets when there is no time to do anything about it and it is one reason that I try to -- I'm trying to get it all done before I come to the end.
WALLACE: But do you have regrets? I would think that you would be somebody who feels pretty good about --
FONDA: Oh, I have very few regrets in life. I was not the kind of mother that I wished that I had been to my children. I have great, great children -- talented, smart -- and I just didn't know how to do it. And you know, I have an organization in Georgia that with adolescents and I've studied parenting. I know what it's supposed to be now. I didn't know then. So I'm trying to show up now.
WALLACE: Jane, I've got to say this is quite a conversation we're having here. This is -- this is real, which is exactly what I'm looking for.
FONDA: I hate parties. I hate cocktail parties. I always end up finding one person that is interesting and sitting in a corner all night. Do you do that?
WALLACE: Yes. I know what you're saying. FONDA: Because I'm shy basically. You know, just small talk. I don't -- I can't do it. Isn't that boring?
WALLACE: I want to ask you a couple of other questions. As you say, you were married three times. to three very different men. French film director, Roger Vadim; Tom Hayden, the anti-war activist; and of course Ted Turner who created CNN.
[19:50:10]
WALLACE: And you say for much of your life, you turned to men for guidance and for validation. Is that because you didn't get it from your dad?
FONDA: I don't know. I mean, yes, I suppose. And the fact that my mother killed herself when I was 12. You know, I mean, I just assumed that nobody would be interested in knowing me, unless I was with a man who was really interesting and they were all interesting.
WALLACE: And when did that change for you? When did you realize: One, I, Jane Fonda am interesting; and two, I don't need a man.
FONDA: When Ted Turner and I split in 2000, I started the new century on my own, and I kind of thought, "Oh, I'm single and I'm okay. I don't need a man." That was fun. And I was 62. It took that long.
WALLACE: I read recently that when you bought the house you live in now, that the real estate agent talked up, where you got a his-and-her bathroom, and you said, no, you don't need to worry about that. It's not going to be --
FONDA: No, I'm going to redesign that guy's bathroom to suit me, because no man is ever going to live here.
WALLACE: And that's true?
FONDA: Yes. I've got a drawer full of vibrators, but there's no man who is going to be there.
WALLACE: That's not quite where I expected this to go. So, are you happy with where you are now?
FONDA: Yes. I can honestly say, Chris, that I am -- I am happier than I've ever been.
WALLACE: Because?
FONDA: I am doing the most important thing in my life that I've ever done and if people want to join me, in my Jane Fonda Climate PAC, you can go to JanePAC.com. I am so happy to be doing these two things, Fire Drill Fridays, and the Jane Fonda Climate PAC.
My kids are healthy and happy and I am so aware of how fortunate I am, and grateful, and gratitude and forgiveness are the two big things that I want to put out there in the world.
WALLACE: Jane, thank you so much.
FONDA: Are you married?
WALLACE: Yes. Why? Are you interested?
FONDA: No, I just -- I just thought I should invite you to parties so that the two of us can just go into a corner.
WALLACE: I would love that.
FONDA: Talk and I don't have to deal with the rest of it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALLACE: Up next, the kind of therapy that has cost one of our guests millions of dollars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:57:11]
WALLACE: Finally tonight, the NBA All-Star Game tips off in Salt Lake City in a few minutes on our sister networks, TNT and TBS. The game features the best players from around the league including this season's leading scorer Luka Doncic of the Dallas Mavericks. His boss, Mav's owner, Mark Cuban, told me last fall about the state of the game and how he uses rants against rouse to influence it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: You've given some money back to the NBA, however, $3 million in fines.
MARK CUBAN, DALLAS MAVERICKS OWNER: Is that that what it is now?
WALLACE: That's what our crack research team says. Complaining about the refs, complaining to the refs. Has it been worth it?
CUBAN: Yes, absolutely. There's been a lot of changes.
WALLACE: Three million dollars' worth?
CUBAN: Yes, I mean, the therapy, the yelling industry, you know, I'm typically really, really calm outside of a Mav's game, but for some reason, during the game is that's when all -- everything just comes out. All the stress comes right out, and sometimes the things I say if we lose, the NBA doesn't like, but I'm okay with that.
WALLACE: So, we're showing pictures of you here and one of the pictures is you coming out on the court after a game, I think you got fined $100,000.00 for that. I mean, is that really worth it to you?
CUBAN: Yes, I mean, you've got -- yes.
WALLACE: But I mean, it doesn't do any good, or is it just --
CUBAN: No, it does. Rules have been changed. Rules have been changed.
WALLACE: Such as?
CUBAN: The game has been changed. You know, in terms of clear path foul, right? I used to always -- there is a thing where if you stop a fast break and they used to only give one shot plus the ball, right? And I showed them the math, I used to get so mad and I showed him the math that it should be two shots, otherwise you reward the defensive team for the foul.
Right now, there is a thing called the rip through and I'm just arguing left and right and you will probably see me get fined again during the season because they refuse to change it yet, but they will. They don't know it, but they will.
WALLACE: But when you do it, is it strategic this will get the NBA's attention or are you just pissed?
CUBAN: I know when I'm going to fined. I know when I am going to be fined.
WALLACE: You do?
CUBAN: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Because they don't care if I'm boisterous or loud or crazy on the sidelines. They care if I say something in the media that they think might make the league look bad.
So I'm only going to talk to the media because, you know, the reporters ask me after every game if I have anything to say, and you know, 99 percent of the time I don't, but when I do, it feels good and it is for a reason.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: There is so much more of our conversation with Mark Cuban, as well as our sit downs with Jane Fonda and Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.
You can catch the full interviews anytime you want on HBO Max.
Join us next Sunday night here on CNN when my guests are pop star Pink, an actress and business mogul, Jessica Alba.
Thank you for watching and good night.
[20:00:04]
