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Who's Talking to Chris Wallace

Interview With Legendary Coach Mike Krzyzewski; Interview With Legendary Film Composer John Williams. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired March 05, 2023 - 19:00   ET



JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: All right. Thanks very much, Sanjay.

That's the news. Reporting from Washington. I'm Jim Acosta. See you back at 8:00 Eastern. "WHO'S TALKING TO CHRIS WALLACE?" is coming up in a few moments, but don't forget, we are back at 8:00. See you in just a little bit. Thanks for watching.


It's not every week we can use the word legend but tonight, both of our guests meet that mark. Starting with required Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski. In a rare sit-down interview, Coach K opens up about the NCAA's problem. Why he never went to the pros. And he answers the question every March Madness fan wants to know.


WALLACE: Who do you see in the final four and you cannot say Duke?


WALLACE: And later, the man behind the music for some of the biggest movies in history. Like "Jaws" and "Star Wars" and "Indiana Jones." Composer John Williams shares how he came up with those iconic scores.


JOHN WILLIAMS, COMPOSER: The simple -- very simple unstoppable rhythmic structure.

WALLACE: We have two things in common.

HUGH JACKMAN, ACTOR: Do I get a hint?

INA GARTEN, CHEF AND AUTHOR: I find cooking really hard. I find it really stressful.

WALLACE: Do you feel your life is in danger?

TYLER PERRY, ACTOR: And the love of my mother is what brought me here.

WALLACE: What was the worst investment?

MARK CUBAN, BILLIONAIRE ENTREPRENEUR: There is a long list of really bad ones.



WALLACE (voice-over): With March Madness just around the corner, we go one-on-one with college basketball legend Coach K. Over five decades, Mike (INAUDIBLE) --


WALLACE: Netted an impressive record with five national championships, three Olympic golds, and the most victories of any college basketball coach ever.

KRZYZEWSKI: Go right away.

WALLACE: While beloved by his players, his courtside glaring and swearing made him a target for the other side.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate Duke like I hate the Nazis.

WALLACE: Last year Coach K hung up his whistle.

KRZYZEWSKI: I've been a very lucky guy.

WALLACE: But now, in one of his first post-retirement interviews, he gives us his candid take on what's wrong with the NCAA and reveals who he thinks will cut down the net this time.


WALLACE: Mike Krzyzewski, Coach K, welcome. Thank you so much for doing this.

KRZYZEWSKI: No, I'm excited to do it. I've watched many of your conversations and they're really good.

WALLACE: Well, thank you, sir. Let's start at the beginning. How are you feeling and how are you doing retired from coaching especially when for the first time in almost 40 years, you're not going to be leading a team into March Madness?

KRZYZEWSKI: Yes, I'm really happy and at peace, Chris. I'm busy, happy. You know, I spent almost 50 years coaching West Point, my alma mater, Duke for 42 years, and 11 years with the U.S. team. So I pretty much have squeezed every bit of coaching out of that as you can, and I love the game, but I -- you know, I'm 76 years old. It's time to spend a little bit more time with my family, especially my 10 grandkids.

WALLACE: But honestly, can you really say that you don't miss coaching?

KRZYZEWSKI: Yes, I don't -- I miss the game. Now, there's a difference between the game and coaching. Coaching means that there's a lot of preparation. There's a lot of recruiting. There's a lot of a lot of, and I don't miss that. You know, at all. So when I say I don't miss coaching, it's the whole deal, man. It's not just a game.

You know, I think I could go out on the court still coach a game but I wouldn't be doing the preparation that the game deserves, and I was -- I prepared very, very diligently, you know, for my games and I was tired of doing that.

WALLACE: Let's talk about the state of the game. You have said that you think this is the most tumultuous time, your word, in college sports.


WALLACE: One of the big issues right now in all of college sports is whether players should finally get a piece of the pie. The Supreme Court opened the door to players being able to benefit from, to get money for their name image, likeness and IL.


WALLACE: There is now currently a lawsuit that would allow players to be treated in effect as employees where they would get a minimum salary and overtime.


Are you OK with all of that?

KRZYZEWSKI: It's not a matter of being a fan or whatever. It's about being in control of your sport and helping the kids. They haven't been helped for decades. They've been basically in some respects used and so that's no longer the case. And so I just wish there was a group, a group -- like who is doing this, Chris?

Who would you bring on the show from the NCAA and say what's happening, man? What are you doing? I don't know who that is.

WALLACE: You have been very critical of the NCAA, which runs college basketball, too big, too bureaucratic, too inflexible. To explain to the layman who's not as involved in it and knowledgeable as you are, obviously, what would you like to see for college basketball?

KRZYZEWSKI: Chris, you'll be shocked at what I'm going to say, maybe you won't. I'm going to say it. In the 47 years that I was a college basketball coach, every decision that was made concerning our sport was eventually had to go through many committees that finally the committee that was going to make the decision, do you know that a basketball coach was never present in the room where the decision was going to be made?

How can you have a good feel for what you're deciding on if you don't hear from the people who coach the game or the head of our coach's association? I mean, it's like Hamilton. We needed to be in the room where it happens.

WALLACE: So there is a new sheriff in town. Governor Charlie Baker of Massachusetts, the new head of the NCAA. Are you -- I would think if you've called him, he would take your call. Are you going to say to him, hey, get us involved?

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, you know, I respect him and the job he's done thus far in his career and to have a man of his stature, a leader of his stature, taking over gives a certain level of excitement. But what are you going to do? Like -- he's not even going to go to Indianapolis. He's going to be -- he's going to stay where he's had -- he'll spend a lot of time right by you in the District of Colombia because the NCAA feels that they need government to take care of what is happening right now with NIL, pay for players, things like that.

And they may be right but then government will be involved from that moment on for your future. Like what's the plan? You know, in other words, treat it like a business and that's why I think you should be more sports specific. I like men's and women's college basketball to be treated as a business. It is. It's a billion-dollar business.

WALLACE: Let's talk finally about some actual games. I think the most iconic moment in the history of the Duke program, maybe you'll disagree with me, was the 19992 regional final against Kentucky, overtime 2.1 seconds left. Duke is down by one. Grant Hill gets the ball. He throws it three-quarters of the way down the court to Christian Laettner, dribbles once, turns, pivots, hits the shot. Duke wins by one. What do you remember about that moment?

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, to be quite frank with you, the elation, the joy that our group experienced and, Chris, right in front, I couldn't see Laettner's shot go in but I knew it went in because everybody was jumping. Right in front of me, Richie Farmer, one of the great kids who played for Kentucky, collapsed right on the court.

And, you know, I still get chills thinking of it because it was the agony and the ecstasy, and I went right away to Richie Farmer and I think there was -- we all took care of one another but we all knew that we were in a moment in time and we ended up winning that moment but you know what? They did, too. Even though they lost the game. It was -- it was an incredible moment.

WALLACE: Take us into the timeout before that final play. What did you say to the players? And is it true that as you broke the huddle you said, we're going to win?


KRZYZEWSKI: Well, you know, I was taught in the military that you speak to action even if you don't believe something is going to happen. So when they get a shot with 2.1 seconds, you have to call a timeout at that second when the clock doesn't stop. So our guys called a timeout but they're at the other end of the court, and I met them as they were coming to the bench and I was saying then we're going to win.

And I asked Grant Hill, can you throw the ball 75 feet? Now we ran the same play a few weeks earlier at Wake Forest and Grant Hill threw a curveball that almost hit a lady in the stands, not in the end zone, but on the side, so I was basically saying, can you throw it? And Grant will tell you that when he said yes, he felt like he already did it.

And then Christian, I looked at him and I said if I bring you up to the baseline, will you catch the ball? And we had a couple options. And he then, and only his unique way because he's such a great competitor, he said, Coach, if Grant throws a good pass, I'll catch it. And I wanted to say, you promise? You know. I -- and when we left, when we left the bench, I thought we had a chance and that's what happens when you have that period of time that you are with -- look, we had a great team and Grant did throw a great pass.

Christian had the courage to take that one dribble to get good momentum and then he hit it and that shows you, though, Chris, how hard it is to win that tournament because if he misses, we don't win our second national championship. And sometimes it's one play like that, not necessarily in the game for the championship, that puts you in a position to win. That's why I think it's the toughest tournament in sport to win.

WALLACE: Coming up, Coach K helps with your brackets. Revealing his picks for the final four including who is going to win at all. Plus, the biggest mistake he ever made and it wasn't on the basketball court.


KRZYZEWSKI: I just got annihilated, really a dumb move.




WALLACE: In more than 40 seasons at Duke, Coach K guided his team to more than five national championships and 13 final four appearances making him one of the greatest college coaches ever. But despite lots of offers, he never went to the pros.

You were approached according to what I've read six different times to coach in the NBA including by a couple of teams pretty well-known, the Boston Celtics and the Los Angeles Lakers. Why did you always say no, Coach?

KRZYZEWSKI: Look, if you're a really good coach at any sport, you're going to be approached. So I'm not the only basketball coach that's been approached. At the end of the day, the way the college game was, I love the college game. I love being at Duke. I love having -- cross some bridges with those kids even if it was for only a year. And when I turned down the Laker job in 2005, like three months later, I was offered to be the first United States national coach. And that was my fix so to speak. You know, I loved coaching those guys.

WALLACE: As you mentioned, you not only have coached college basketball, you also coached the U.S. national team to three straight Olympic gold medals. How different was it coaching professional basketball players as opposed to college kids? KRZYZEWSKI: Well, different and great. You know, I mean, both are

great. When you're coaching in college, they're young men. I call it you cross bridges with them of improvement and you cross them together. With the U.S. team they're grown men. They've crossed their bridges already. Now can we cross one bridge together? You know, can we pull all our egos under one ego umbrella and win a gold medal, and not just win a gold medal but win the respect of the country and win the respect of the world while we're doing it? And those guys did that. They were -- you know, they really bought into everything.

WALLACE: You won 1,202 college basketball games, which is the most in history. What is the secret to coaching college basketball? Is it X's and O's? Is it motivation? And how do you take stars and roll players and create a team?

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, it's something about relationships. You know, relationships with talented kids who are good kids. You know, in other words, they have character. The individual relationships that you and your staff develop with them is immense. I mean, it's -- and also, it's so fulfilling. But then the relationship that you develop with your team and that's different. But if you have the individual relationships, the other is a lot easier to obtain.

And then obviously, you have to work hard and you have to prepare. The other aspect of that that's important is to maintain balance off the court. Now my wife Mickie and I have been married for 53 years.


She's been an amazing partner. We got married on graduation day at West Point. We have three great girls, daughters, and 10 grandchildren. And we've been a family that has had my career. In fact, our group text, my daughters, my three daughters, my wife and I are the starting five, and after this show is over, I'll look at it and there might be, I bet there are, you know, 30 messages and there will be pictures of grandkids and all that. And I -- anyway, keeps me current but the starting five has kept me -- given me great balance and great support.

WALLACE: You talk about the starting five. Your sons-in-law married to your three daughters say that dating Coach K's daughters was intimidating and that when they came in the house, you would fix them with what they call the stare.

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, that's as it should be. Yes.


KRZYZEWSKI: They're my daughters. They had to fear something. I wanted to make sure -- you know, a little bit of fear is not bad, Chris.

WALLACE: Can you give us a sense -- look into the camera and give me the stare for five seconds? Oh.


WALLACE: Wow. I don't know if I'd come back for a second date but I guess, that's the test.

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, you better love my daughter and take care of her then in order to get over that. But, you know, there is a smile, too. There is a smile, too. You got to prove your worth, man. You got to prove your worth.

WALLACE: Is it true that you would initially wanted your 10 grandchildren when you started having grandchildren to call you Coach but that Mickie and your daughters put an end to that?

KRZYZEWSKI: No, it's one of the great stories of what a guy should not do. I made such a dumb mistake when my daughter Debbie was pregnant, Debbie says, Dad, what would you want your grandkids to call you? All right. What I should have said is answer that with a question. What do you think?


WALLACE: Yes, I was about to coach you and say that's what you should have said.

KRZYZEWSKI: No, I know. Chris, I know. And I knew it as the words were coming out when I said -- because I didn't say that. And so I don't think -- I don't think and I say Coach and it's a dumb answer and whatever, and I just got annihilated. I mean, four ladies were just, you self, you egotistical -- now, wait a minute. Then I said, well, what do you think? And it eventually ended up Pappi. And my wife Mimi. But when people say what's one of the biggest mistakes of your life, that day was one of the biggest mistakes that I made. Really a dumb move. Dumb move on my part.

WALLACE: One project that I know you're deeply involved in is the Emily Krzyzewski Center named after your mom. Tell us what that is.

KRZYZEWSKI: Well, my mom never went to high school. She has an eighth grade education and her parents came from Poland just like my dad's been. And she was a cleaning lady in downtown, at the Chicago Athletic Club in downtown Chicago and -- but she believed in education. The main reason I went to West Point was because she kind of forced me to go to West Point and so we're in our 17th year.

The Emily Krzyzewski Center services about 2,000 kids a year now in four different programs, 300 kids are actually in after-school programs. And then they eventually all of our kids have gotten into college. Only one in about five low-income kids in the Durham community get an opportunity to go to college, and so we have different programs. We have a staff of 25 people. It's gone bonkers good.

WALLACE: That is a great thing. And what a tribute to your mom.

Finally, Coach, I need some help with my March Madness brackets.


WALLACE: And you got to help me here. I don't want sort of a non- answer. Who do you see in the final four and you cannot say Duke?

KRZYZEWSKI: First of all, there's more parity in college basketball than ever and so the field is really open.


And I think Houston has shown that they've stood the test of time, but Kansas, Bill Self is one of the truly great coaches in our game and they're playing at a high level. I still like Purdue in there because I've used -- 7'2" guy I think is the most impactful player. And I think a team that hasn't really been given the credit that they've earned thus far is UCLA. So those would be four chances. Of course, I think that they could all be eliminated by four ACC schools that will be in their regions.

WALLACE: All right. You've given me the final four. Final question. Who do you see cutting down the net?


WALLACE: No, no, no, you still can't say Duke. You can't say Duke.


WALLACE: Houston, Purdue?

KRZYZEWSKI: I think --


KRZYZEWSKI: I think probably Houston has the oldest team and they play the -- as good a defense as the rest, and so I would say that they are a slight favorite to do that. The one and done aspect of the tournament makes it so very, very difficult to win it. So it will be exciting.

Look, there's no sport that takes over the whole country for one month like this tournament does. And for me to be a part of that tournament for over four decades was an incredible honor.

WALLACE: Coming up, we go from scoring baskets to scoring movies. Composer John Williams is nominated for an Oscar for the 53rd time reveals his muse for some of the most memorable music in Hollywood history and it may surprise you.



WALLACE: With just a few notes, he scared a generation from swimming, made us believe bikes could fly, and help bring dinosaurs back to life.

Movie goers may not know his name, but legendary composer, John Williams is the genius behind the scores for some of the biggest films ever. His empire includes 53 Oscar nominations; the latest, another collaboration with Steven Spielberg for "The Fabelmans."

Now at age 91, William shares some of the secrets behind his movie magic, and explains why he's not done yet.

Let's start with your latest nomination for an Oscar for Best Original Score for "The Fabelmans," a movie based on Steven Spielberg's childhood. Here the two of you are. Take a look at.


STEVEN SPIELBERG, FILMMAKER: For us to have been able to come together on this picture, which I would consider to be my most personal movie of my career, in my most personal collaboration of my career with John Williams, this was a wonderful way for Johnny to finish up his career as a film composer.


WALLACE: What did this project mean to you after working with Steven Spielberg for 50 years?

JOHN WILLIAMS, LEGENDARY FILM COMPOSER: "Fabelmans" is such a personal intimate thing with Steven. It is amazing to me that he had been able to reveal all that part of his life, a divorce for any child disaster, I suppose when one sees one's parents separating.

And from a musical point of view, it was especially a treat, because Steven's his mother Leah was quite a good pianist. She's called "Mitzi" in the film. And in the film, Mitzi plays the piano, I believe I am right in saying that in these 30 films or so that we've done over 50 years, there's never been a piano solo for whatever reason. So that is, at least from a textual point of view, some unique aspect.

WALLACE: How is working with Spielberg different from other directors?

WILLIAMS: Well, I've worked with many other directors, many wonderful directors. Steven, I have, as you have noted, we've been together for a very long time. And it's different, I suppose, in the sense that we know each other so well, we have a shorthand of working together after all these many years.

He is a close friend. He is many, many things, Chris. You know, he's a producer and a studio head and director and a writer and a friend. He is also not something, he is not someone who you can say no to.

He is family, and I love him dearly. And I think I did instantly, he's an inspiration. He's a muse. He can amuse me, hell I don't know, but he is a muse and he is an inspiration.

WALLACE: Speaking of inspirations, you have won five Oscars and your nomination for "The Fabelmans" is your 53rd, which puts you behind only one man, Walt Disney, who had 59 nominations for Oscars.

What does the recognition from the Oscars mean to you? WILLIAMS: Well, it seems very unreal to me, Chris. How could you get 53 nominations? It is impossible. No one's going to live that long to have a working life to do it.


WILLIAMS: You couldn't plan that. I never set out to say I will have all these nominations. It boggles my mind. And I have to credit music, and what it does for our lives and for sustaining our spirits and enriching our souls.

It's like great poetry, like great literature. It's something to live for and to live by.

WALLACE: One of the things I love to do is to dig in the process how artists like you create. What was your thought about "Jaws"? What is it you were trying to do with the theme from "Jaws"?

WILLIAMS: Well, in case of "Jaws," I wondered what to do, how to identify the shark? And I thought something unstoppable, like the attack of a shark. There is no way you can defend yourself from that.

Something that is approaching inevitably and is dangerous, and even repetitive and low in the register, and ominous and something that could start very quietly and then speed up.

WALLACE: Well, let's see what you came up with. Here it is.

WILLIAMS: All right. Good.


WALLACE: And that is why I didn't go into the water for several years in the midst of this.

Spielberg says that that score, that "tan-tan-tan-tan" was responsible for at least half the success of the movie.

WILLIAMS: Well, it might be. It is interesting that little clip that you've shown how it will start slowly and softly and how it accelerates as it gets closer to Christie or a swimmer. And she becomes in greater danger as it gets louder and louder in this simple, very simple, unstoppable rhythmic structure "tat-tat-tat" it was almost -- it's relentless, unstoppable and maybe something you want to get away from.

WALLACE: Oh, definitely something you want to get away from.

Now, let's go on to the theme from "Star Wars." Here it is.


WALLACE: I've got to say, I saw the movie when it came out in the 70s. I'd never heard anything like that. What was your thought of what you wanted to achieve there? And how did you go about it both in terms of the music you composed, and how you orchestrated it? WILLIAMS: Well, I really worked backwards, Chris, because this piece is the last piece I wrote in the process of writing an hour-and-a-half of music and so on, because I couldn't seem to get a sort of heraldic theme that was that had the heroic aspect of it, that the orchestra could present in a short period of time.

Like we'd have two hours to play a symphony and have a finale to it. And I finally, in desperation, really just worked out this thing, which jumps a fifth "dom-bim," that "do-sol" "ta-ra-ra-ti" up -- jumping up to do again, an octave higher if I had a piano I could show you. That seemed to me to be a direct, strong, heroic, clear, sonorous sound from the orchestra.

And I smile when I hear it. It is just as an inside thing, and it is particularly electrifying brass interpretation that I don't know how much credit I can take for that, but the great brass section of the London Symphony excited over maybe not me conducting them, but the arrival of their new principal trumpet in this heraldic phrase.

Wil Then there was the score from "ET" which you say is one of your favorite films and here is the climactic scene.


WALLACE: Spielberg said, without John Williams, bikes can't fly.


WILLIAMS: Well I love that scene and it always interested me wanting to know at least how fast you have to go on a bicycle to escape velocity -- to escape gravity. What is the escape velocity?

And I asked the gentleman from NASA in Washington, I said, "What is it?" An astronaut, he said, "It is 17,500 miles an hour." So if we can go 17,500 miles an hour, the bike take off and we will fly over the moon.

We buy this so, you know, the police are chasing the kids on their bicycles and they reach such a speed that they fly away. Isn't it wonderful that way we accept that? We speak something about film, that the magic of what can be done with cameras and imagination and special effects. And yes, orchestras playing themes that have lift or lift to them, you know.

WALLACE: Let's talk about the difference that music makes to a movie. Here is the classic theme from "Raiders of the Lost Ark."


WALLACE: Spielberg says that the two of you had a performance and appearance at a concert, where you played a scene from one of the "Raiders" movies without any music. And that frankly, he says it was long and boring, and then you played it with the music, you played it live with the orchestra and it was a totally different experience.

WILLIAMS: It is completely different. It will contract, compress the time certainly with this quick music, and it seemed like the trains -- that one you refer to -- is I think about four minutes. Running it without the music, it will seem like six minutes.

So it's almost like riding a horse if your tempo is exactly right, you don't feel it. If you're fighting the editorial rhythm of the film, metrically, one way or another, too fast or slow, you don't have that liquid synchronization that you want.

WALLACE: Still to come, the Oscar-winning movie, John Williams was almost too intimidated to be part of.


WALLACE: Is it true that you said to Spielberg, you need a better composer and he said, I know, but they are all dead.




WALLACE: At age 91, composer, John Williams is not slowing down. He is about to team up with Steven Spielberg once again for another blockbuster. We'll get to that.

But we continue our conversation with a Spielberg classic he almost walked away from.


WALLACE: I want to show the climactic scene from "Schindler's List."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is Hebrew from the Talmud that says whoever saves one life saves the world entire.


WALLACE: Is it true that when you saw the movie before you composed the score that you said to Spielberg, you need a better composer. And he said, I know, but they're all dead.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That's true. It's a true story. Yes.

WALLACE: Meaning that you thought it was such a classic piece of work you needed --

WILLIAMS: Well, I said to Steven, it is such a great film and how could any composer come up with this? I did the best I could. But I love his line. Great composers were all dead.

Some days they seem to be, as our culture evolves in one direction or another, we still have had only one Beethoven.

WALLACE: Yes. But there's only one John Williams, too.

WILLIAMS: Well, thank you for that. But the other thing about "Schindler's List" is the inspiration of the film and the writing and performance.

I mean, you can stuff that film, Chris, on any frame anywhere and freeze it on some extras' face and the expression is perfect. No one is just looking over here and distracted. I mean, everybody's right on the task at hand.

And from a musical point of view, I knew I had Itzhak Perlman to play the violin, your audiences will miss Mr. Perlman, the greatest -- one of our greatest violinists of the century. And as I was writing this for the film, I had Itzhak's sound in my head -- and talk about an inspiration, just the idea of writing a few simple notes for his great voice.

WALLACE: You just turned 91. Have you had to make any accommodations to your age?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think -- I like to think that 90 is the best -- from 80 to 90 is the best decade of a woman's or a man's life. For the reason, it is from 80 to 90, you lose a little something, you don't walk quite as fast or you don't hit a golf ball quite as far.

But there are enormous compensations. You see a ladybug, you see the red on the ladybug, it is a red that the French colorist couldn't have duplicated. If see the great beauty around us.

My music, it means so much more to me every passing day. You just wish you can share that with people how lucky we are to have been working in something that we truly love.

Health has a lot to do with it. If you're 90 years old and you feel good and you can play tennis or whatever you want to do, it is a wonderful experience. It brings with such -- it brings with it such objectivity and prospective. I recommend it for everyone.

WALLACE: Well, if I could be 91 like you, I would take it in a heartbeat.


WILLIAMS: You will be.

WALLACE: Well, God willing.

WILLIAMS: You will be.

WALLACE: Many of the composers now work on a synthesizer. But you still write your music longhand, like you did in the 18th -- well, you didn't -- but as one did in the 1850s, why?

WILLIAMS: Oh, when I was learning to write and learning to read music, and so on, computers didn't exist. And I developed a working system that I've done all my life. And I've always been so busy working, Chris, that I never had time to take six months off to adapt to the technology that we have now

I think we lose something in the process of not making the thing with your hand. An analogy, I would struggle to find one, but to make a great violinist as Stradivarius did, you can't make a great violin with a machine, you have to have somebody petting it and coaxing it into the kind of vibrations that we want. And maybe, there's something tactical about that.

I just have never changed. That's the burden I carry to do it the old fashioned way, which maybe the best, I don't know.

Wil You are now working with Steven Spielberg on the score for "Indiana Jones 5" and there is a lot of talk, that this might be your final film. And that after that you would concentrate on classical pieces. Is that true?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's hard to say it's true or untrue. I'm not anxious to go into another film, but I said earlier in our chat today and Steven is a hard man to say no to. He doesn't know quite when his next project is going to be.

Also, I always find it very hard, if he says to me, I don't want to do this without you, I don't know -- but on the other hand, what I want to do right now is a piano concerto from Emanuel Ax, so your audiences will know. And I recently finished a violin concerto for Anne-Sophie Mutter and not doing a film has made that possible.

So I -- Chris, I'm just happy to and grateful to be working in music. There is one thing I'd say about working in film. A film like Indiana Jones can take six months, it's hard to -- it's that complicated a process.

Six months when you're 91 is a long time. So you're asking somebody to make a commitment for a large percentage of the earthly time you may have left, you knows, that is another aspect.

But right now, I feel healthily flexible, whether or not it will be my last film I can't say if he should turn around tomorrow with another "Schindler's List," you probably have to fight me to keep me away from it.


WALLACE: Up next an iron pumping, bicep flexing feud involving one of our guests.



WALLACE: Finally tonight, a comic book rivalry playing out on social media, Deadpool versus Wolverine. The two are about to face off on the big screen, and the Hollywood heavyweights who play them are taking it into the gym.

Ryan Reynolds stars as Deadpool has been posting workout photos as he gets in shape for the upcoming "Deadpool 3" movie, prompting his co- star Hugh Jackman who plays Wolverine to post some of his own preparations.

I recently sat down with Jackman to talk about revisiting Wolverine, and how he plans to get ready.


WALLACE: I understand that you're set to play in the next "Deadpool" movie and even though your character Logan or Wolverine was killed off in the last movie, you're going to play Wolverine again for the 10th time.



JACKMAN: I mean, you categorize it as the Deadpool movie, we like to call it "Wolverine 10." That is what we call it in our house.

WALLACE: Have you checked with Ryan Reynolds on this?

JACKMAN: I don't need to check with him. I am kidding.

When I keep thinking of me and Ryan, of Deadpool and Wolverine, which are classic comic book rivals, there is also a dynamic that I've never really got to do before as Wolverine.

It keeps reminding me -- do you remember that great Nick Nolte-Eddie Murphy movie, "48 Hours." Remember that one?

WALLACE: Of course.

JACKMAN: It reminds me of that, those two characters, you know, the fast mouth and the wisecracking guy and the grizzled old sort of tough you know, serving vinegary, you know, character me and I just thought this is going to be fun, something I've never done before and I can't wait.

WALLACE: You got so jacked for these movies, nine Wolverine movies, and over the years people have wondered, did he juice? Did he take steroids?

JACKMAN: No. I love my job and I love Wolverine. I've got to be careful what I say here, but I had been told anecdotally what the side effects are of that and I was like, I don't love it that much.

WALLACE: Yes, no, no, I --

JACKMAN: So no, I just did it the old school way. And I'll tell you, I've eaten more chickens -- I'm so sorry to all the vegans and vegetarians and to the chickens of the world. I've just -- I've literally -- the karma is not good for me. If the day that He has anything related to chickens, I'm in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WALLACE: There is so much more of our conversation with Hugh Jackman, as well as our sit downs with Coach K and John Williams. You can catch their full interviews anytime you want on HBO Max and join us next Sunday night here on CNN when my guests are the rising Democratic star Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer and actress and business mogul, Jessica Alba.

Thank you for watching and goodnight.