Return to Transcripts main page

What We Know with Max Foster

Leo XIV Celebrates First Mass As Pope In Sistine Chapel; India And Pakistan Trade Blame Amid New Fighting; World Leaders Attend Massive Military Parade In Russia; New Equipment Outage Hits Newark Air Traffic Control; U.S. President Hints Chinese Tariff Levels Could Fall To 80 Percent. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired May 09, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:23]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: A new era begins for the Catholic Church.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Pope Leo XIV has led his first mass as pontiff, speaking in English, the pontiff asked for his flock to help him in his new role.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: Through the ministry of Peter, you have called me to carry that cross and to be blessed with that mission, and I

know I can rely on each and every one of you to walk with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Well, the first American pope was born 69 years ago in Chicago as Robert Prevost. He holds citizenship in Peru, where he serves as a bishop.

The Vatican says he'll be formally installed as pope on May the 18th. Thats when Pope Leo will hold his inaugural public mass in St. Peter's Square.

Now, since his election, Catholics have been pouring over Pope Leos previous writings for clues on where he'll take the church next. Like his

predecessor, he's spoken out on global conflicts, describing what he calls crimes against humanity committed by Russia against Ukraine. Those who know

him also expect him to make climate change a key focus of his papacy.

When it comes to women in the clergy, he said that progress on gender equality in other workplaces doesn't mean the Catholic Church will follow

suit. And "The New York Times" reported that he's previously aired concerns about the media promoting what he calls alternative families, such as same

sex couples and their adopted children.

Even the pope's decision to have a nun read the first gospel this morning has attracted scrutiny. One of Leo's former colleagues told CNN, what you

see is what you get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JOHN LYDON, AUGUSTINIAN FRIAR AND FRIEND OF POPE LEO XIV: I know the pope well. We lived together ten years in Peru, and I think the pope I know

from Peru is the same one that were seeing now on the television screens. He's very open, wants to -- a inclusive church, a church that embraces

everybody. So, I think the presence of a woman religious is very significant. Thats a continuation of what Pope Francis had also begun. I

think his message, he the part that he gave in English was to to walk together. He said that with the cardinals, said, we have to walk together.

So that's the synodal church that they called, the church of dialogue with the world. So I think that would be a blessing, not just the church. I

think it's a blessing to the world. But so divided now and where so many people scream at each other, that he's going to be a pope of dialogue and

embracing everyone and promoting peace and justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So we want to know a bit more about what kind of pope that Leo will be.

Joining me is Gretchen Crowe, editor in chief of OSV News, a Catholic news service.

Thank you so much for joining us.

It's interesting hearing some of those, you know, when we were talking there about his position on women. I mean, so much of it is symbolic, isn't

it? We're reading symbolism all the time today. So, the way he involved women today, but he seemed quite conservative on some of the sexuality

issues. I mean, how do you see him in terms of that conservative liberal line if you like?

GRETCHEN CROWE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, OSV NEWS: Yes. Well, I think, at first we have to remember he's only been pope for 24 hours. So there is much that

will be revealed in coming weeks and months and, God willing, years. And certainly, to put him into a bucket of conservative and liberal is

something the church really tries to shy away from.

You know, we -- the church is very concerned with all of its people and walking with them and accompanying them in anywhere that they are in their

lives. And I think any conservative or liberal cardinal would say the same.

But, you know, we do have a few hints. You know, first, his name Pope Leo XIV. You know, while we can't know for certain what yet exactly what that

means, we can assume a certain continuity with the thinking of Pope Leo XIII who was pope at the turn of the 20th century. And he emphasized

Catholic social teaching, particularly on the rights and the dignity of human beings. So, we may see some connections and ties there.

FOSTER: Yeah. So, the name is one thing, isn't it? And, you know, we can read into that, can't we? Because he would be aware that choosing a certain

name would make us look back at the previous people who had that name. Theres a continuity, a narrative that came through those names. So, we're

looking for the connection of the previous Leos, and he sees himself as part of that.

CROWE: Yes, I think that's absolutely correct. And, you know, you know, as you would expect from a cardinal of the Catholic Church, you know, when it

comes to those hot button issues, he certainly spoken in favor of the church's value for life, from conception to natural death.

[15:05:09]

He's spoken in opposition to the death penalty, saying, we must be in favor of life at all times. And, you know, you were speaking of women, he is a

supporter -- supportive, I believe, of a greater involvement of women. It's not necessarily sure whether or not that means in favor of ordaining them

priests.

You know, he said at a recent meeting of bishops that clericalism women doesn't necessarily solve the problem. It could generate a new one. But he

went on to say that it's important to be to hear what people have to say no matter whether they're men or women, and involve them in decision making.

FOSTER: Can I ask you a broader question? Obviously, you know, the church. It does get involved in politics because it has to it is, you know, at the

very least, Vatican is a -- is a city state. You know, we have an American pope now. So people start talking about what's happening in America. So

there's a link there you can't deny.

And, you know, there's a lot of people in the world that don't like what's happening with the MAGA movement in the U.S., there's lots of people who do

like it, but it's almost as if Leo is being forced into this position, whether he likes it or not, that he's seen as a counterbalance to MAGA

around the world for people that don't agree with it, just because he's this very high profile American.

So, it's less to do with whether or not he wants to get involved in that. He's always going to be forced into that anyway. Do you think that's

something that he's aware of? We'll be thinking about at this point?

CROWE: Well, you know, that was brought up interestingly this afternoon at a press conference that the U.S. cardinals gave. And they were talking a

little bit about their experience at the conclave and was brought up with this in mind, was being a counterweight to President Trump brought in in

mind when Cardinal Prevost was elected Pope Leo XIV, and the cardinals were very said, you know what? That wasn't even on their radar. Thats not

something that they were thinking about during the conclave. They were looking for somebody who -- who could unite Catholics around the world and

who could be a bridge builder with, yes, President Trump, but also other leaders.

But I do think that, you know, having lived in Peru for so many years and having ministered in Peru for so many years, we will be likely to hear Pope

Leo XIV speak strongly, perhaps on the rights of migrants and a humane migration.

FOSTER: Yeah, it's a big issue for him, isn't it? And he does have a Peruvian passport as well, doesn't he? Theres a big debate about whether

he's Peruvian or American, depending on where you live. Lots of Peruvians claiming him today, certainly.

Gretchen Crowe, thank you very much indeed.

Now, a fresh round of explosions and blackout conditions are being reported once again in Indian administered Kashmir. India says Pakistan has launched

a new series of drone strikes amid calls for restraint from world leaders.

Meanwhile, Pakistani officials say five people were killed overnight in cross-border shelling.

CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Pakistan near a cricket stadium. That one government official says was the apparent target

of an Indian drone attack.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, when you're looking at Kashmir across that line of control, there has been intense

shelling. People are fleeing the border area right now. That's what we're understanding.

Overnight, Pakistani officials told us that India sent more drones into Pakistan. They sent 29, according to Pakistani officials, India sent 29

drones into Pakistan yesterday. One of them came down here and I'm asked Javid just to give us a show and tell here.

This is a cafe area. You see some of the metal work ripped down here. If you can pan up, you can see there where the drone impacted on the building

up there above us. And if you come down here, you get a sense of, look, the shrapnel literally splashed all across the wall here. It came down. This

shrapnel marks all over the ground here. A piece of shrapnel lying on the ground.

Now, it was about 10:30 in the morning when that happened yesterday. This area here is known as Food Street. Fortunately, at that time, it wasn't too

busy. But the window fronts in all these restaurants were blown out. They're being tidied up today.

But right behind what you're looking at there is the Rawalpindi Cricket Stadium. And there is a major cricketing event going on here, or there was,

the Pakistan Super League bringing in international players. It's the sort of its the main cricketing event of the year inside Pakistan. That because

the foreign minister said actually it was the stadium that was the target of the drone, the organizers of this cricketing event have put it on pause.

They're moving it to the UAE. That's going to cost several millions of dollars to do.

India, in the meantime, has also now pausing matches in the Indian Premier League major sporting event there as well. And it's ironic, if you will,

that cricket, the sort of unifying thing for the youth of these two nations, is getting affected by these attacks. But this is what people are

living in fear of. Here. Yesterday, one man in his mid 20s was killed. Two people were injured.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Nic Robertson there in Rawalpindi -- Rawalpindi.

We're going to go to Russia now, though. Once isolated leader, President Vladimir Putin, surrounded by some pretty powerful friends as he celebrated

Victory Day today.

Thousands of troops marching through the streets of Moscow today, marking 80 years since the Soviet Union and its allies defeated Nazi Germany in

World War II. Russian state media report almost 30 world leaders were due to attend. Chinese President Xi was there, very much in a prime position,

along with the Brazilian President Luis Inacio Lula da Silva, the Venezuelan president, as well, Nicolas Maduro, all there -- so very much a

global stage today.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen has more for us from Moscow, as he watched it all unfold.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Russia puts on a massive parade to mark 80 years since the defeat of Nazi

Germany, Russian Leader Vladimir Putin and his guest of honor, China's Xi Jinping, closer than ever, side by side, wearing patriotic Russian ribbons.

As Putin vows Russia will win in Ukraine as well.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our whole country, society and people support the participants of the special military

operation. We are proud of their courage, determination and power of spirit that has always only brought us victory.

PLEITGEN: And the Russians flashing the top weapons in their arsenal, from jet fighters to drones heavily used in the battles in Ukraine to

intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of carrying some of the most deadly nuclear warheads.

While this parade is there to commemorate 80 years since the defeat of Nazi Germany in World War II, it's also a show of force by the Kremlin saying

that its forces are inching closer to victory in Ukraine.

Moscow, buoyed by recent battlefield successes, all but completely ousting Ukrainian troops from Russia's Kursk region with a lot of help from North

Korean soldiers.

Putin, showing his gratitude, embracing a senior member of Kim Jong Un's general staff.

PUTIN: Congratulations and all the best wishes to all your warriors.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're putting a lot of pressure on Russia.

PLEITGEN: While President Trump has once again called for a 30-day ceasefire and threatened more sanctions if its broken, a senior Russian

senator making clear to me it's the Kremlin that's calling the shots.

Do you believe that President Trump can still broker a peace deal?

KONSTANTIN KOSACHEV, RUSSIAN SENATOR: He is most welcome. He is most welcome to do what he can do. But of course, we have our basic interests in

this crisis, and we will not give up these interests just for the reason somebody in Washington or elsewhere sees this or that about the crisis.

PLEITGEN: And Putin and Xi have made clear nobody will get between them. Laying flowers at the tomb of the unknown soldier, vowing to stand

together, facing down threats from the Trump administration.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Now the crisis is getting deeper at one of the world's busiest airports. A new round of equipment outages have hit Newark airport in New

Jersey. Sources tell CNN that air traffic controllers experienced a 90- second blackout, and that was early on Friday. This included losing radar and radio communications. So, the images and the sound.

This comes after the April 28th outage of radar and communications. At the same facility. Just yesterday, the Department of Transportation announced

plans to overhaul the U.S. air traffic control system. Here's the audio of what happened in the control tower when the screens went dark.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: FedEx 1989, I'm going to hand you off here. Our scopes just went black again. If you care about this, contact your airline

and try to get some pressure for them to fix this stuff.

FEDEX 1989 PILOT: Sorry to hear about that. FedEx 1989. I'm switching. Good luck guys.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

FOSTER: CNN transportation analyst Mary Schiavo joins us now.

I mean, to hear those quite resigned voices, but I mean, speaking to a lot of our viewers and I mean, the idea that screens could go blank for 90

seconds, so they can't see the planes and the radio goes as well, so they can't speak to the planes.

It's a really scary situation for passengers. How worried should they be?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, at this point they should be worried. And in the United States you know, even you know, not just the

media, but others are calling for people wherever possible to change their flights to not go to Newark, because now that has happened several times.

That puts the risk level at a much higher point.

So when the FAA -- what happened was the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration, air traffic control in the United States, if you will, last

July, cobbled together a system to run the traffic in and out of Newark. So, part of the equipment is in New York, part of it's in Philadelphia, and

its landing planes in Newark.

And so, this is actually now the third time this has happened. It was also discovered that it happened last November 6th in 2024. And when something

happens that many times in terms of risk analysis in the United States and air traffic control parlance, that puts this at the highest risk level that

there is.

And to lose, the ability to see the plane and communicate the plane ever, but certainly for 90 seconds three times within a year. And remember, at

one time there were almost 200 planes up there, they lost communication with. This latest one was early in the morning hours. That means this is at

the highest risk level of air traffic control.

And right now, all they can do is reduce the traffic. The government in the United States is immediately putting new communications line in fiber optic

instead of old copper wire, and trying to reduce the traffic, but it's at a critical level now.

FOSTER: Yeah. And there are plenty of experts warning, weren't they, before this move of air traffic controllers to the different department, that

there's going to be a problem and its proving to be so, but can you just reassure some viewers who are, you know, worried that there may be radar

blocking involved here or a hack? No one's talking about that. Are they?

SCHIAVO: That is a great point. You know, and we call it, you know, depending on what they're doing, it could be spoofing where they send in

different signals to the plane. This would be jamming or hacking because the planes weren't given other directions. But U.S. planes have routinely

experienced spoofing. In other words, their equipment is given other signals than the real signals when they have flown along the Korean coast

or near Russia.

And so, both are happening to U.S. air traffic, just in different places. But yes, it could be jamming, but unfortunately or fortunately, the Federal

Aviation Administration in the United States has fessed up. They've admitted that, no, it was their equipment that failed. They found, you

know, wires were bad, and the equipment is 40 years old.

So, no, the government fessed up. In a rare instance, they did admit.

FOSTER: Okay, so lots of people saying, I'm flying to Newark or I'm going to an airport which is linked with Newark, and they're worried about

delays. But I think the bigger question is how safe should they feel?

I mean, it's hard to reassure them, isn't it, because it's never going to be good to have a screen go blank and just explain what happens when they

do go blank. There are backup systems, aren't there? They can switch to other air traffic control systems.

SCHIAVO: Well, they have to hand off the traffic if they're going to switch to other air traffic control. What happened in these three cases is the

controllers just told the pilots last night it was a Federal Express cargo plane. They told it to contact different air traffic control. There wasn't

a risk at that moment of them colliding. But when it happened on April 28th, there were 200 planes up there.

So, they instructed them just to stay on your current altitude and stay on your current course. Now, of course, your altitude and your direction may

be conflicting with somebody else. So what they -- before it's happened three times the FAA said, well, you know, we can rely on pilots to mitigate

and pilots to work their way around this system or the onboard collision avoidance systems.

Well, after it's happened three times, that is ridiculous. Thats not considered mitigation. And what people aren't realizing is in these what

they're called TRACONs, Terminal Radar Aircraft Control. In these facilities, air traffic controllers still have to talk to each other. They

have to hand off, you know, various information.

When there's a problem, they literally can get up from their stations and talk to other controllers, et cetera. So there's a lot that goes on behind

the scenes, and none of that is possible when their screens go dark. And I was inspector general when they bought some of these screens, and that was

about 2 or 3 decades ago. So, we know this equipment is highly antiquated.

FOSTER: It needs updating. Thanks for explaining it all from a real expert. Mary Schiavo, thank you so much.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

FOSTER: U.S. President Donald Trump says he's very confident ahead of talks between the U.S. and China, trade officials from China this weekend.

[15:20:03]

The president also hinted the U.S. could lower its tariff level on China.

In a social media post, he said that 80 percent tariffs seem right and the final decision would be up to U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Some

economists estimate the tariff level would need to fall to at least 50 percent to restart business between the two countries.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now -- Yurkevich joins us now.

Just, I mean, 80 percent is still high, isn't it? But I guess this was part of the negotiation. You aim -- you start really high and you bring it down.

But the Chinese, you know, they're very long-term thinkers and tough negotiators.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And the administration is really setting this meeting up to be sort of a first

initial face to face contact. They're setting expectations low because this is the first time that the two sides are talking and meeting face to face.

But this is the meeting that everyone has been waiting for. Wall Street, Main Street retailers who are suffering a measurably because of these high

tariffs. As you mentioned, 80 percent is still very high coming from the president. Most economists do suggest that a 50 percent tariff maybe could

break the ICE, so to speak, on getting cargo moving again.

But, Max, most small businesses I speak to say that 50 percent even is way too high, 20 percent maybe is something that they could entertain, but

anything above that really puts the risk of putting them out of business. Also worth noting though, if there is some negotiation or dealmaking, so to

speak, over the course of this weekend, it takes an entire month to get supply chains back up and running.

So even if there's some deal that people are happy with and that starts to move cargo again, it will still be a month from this weekend before we see

cargo flowing into the United States and out of the United States into China. Retailers have about five to seven weeks of pre tariff inventory.

So, you're really cutting it close. If this is the weekend you're trying to make a deal. But most experts and administration officials have said that

this is really sort of a sort of an opening conversation trying to deescalate, maybe not even get to that 80 percent. But clearly that is what

the president of the United States is targeting for.

FOSTER: Okay. Vanessa, thank you so much.

Now still ahead, the devastating toll of war. Multiple Israeli airstrikes hit civilian areas in Gaza this week, resulting in mass casualties.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:41]

FOSTER: The U.N. and other aid agencies are rejecting a new U.S.-Israeli plan for resuming aid distribution in Gaza, saying it would facilitate the

forced displacement of the population and fails to meet their immediate needs. The U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, unveiled the plan in

Jerusalem today. He says a private foundation would set up for distribution sites for about 60 percent of Gaza's 2 million people, as Israel prepares

to displace the people of Gaza into smaller and smaller areas, it's also keeping up devastating airstrikes.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond shows us the aftermath from several attacks that hit civilian areas this week. Strongly warn you, the footage is graphic. It's

hard to watch and extremely disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Who can be saved and who is beyond saving. In the first seconds after this airstrike, it

seems impossible to tell. After shouting for an ambulance these men leave this bloodied boy in the middle of the road and head back to the scene. But

his is not the only limp body being rushed away. In the arms of some and carried on chairs by others critically wounded Palestinians are heaved into

ambulances in the flickering hope that they can be saved.

These motionless bodies are far from anonymous.

Dad, dad, this boy cries out over and over again, shock and fear etched into his voice and across his face.

Israel's target, this restaurant in Gaza city, where customers died at their tables, and where one man now tries to revive another. The man,

journalist Yahia Sobhy, won't survive. Hours after his daughter was born, he died wearing the same clothes he held her in.

This strike capped a deadly 24 hours in Gaza, during which Israel killed 97 people and injured over 200 more in strikes on just three locations,

according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health. With a pink backpack still slung over his shoulders, this boy is one of at least two dozen children

killed in those strikes. He was killed when missiles struck a crowded marketplace blocks away from the restaurant.

The Israeli military said they killed Mohammed Barakat (ph), whom they accused of kidnapping an elderly woman on October 7th.

Earlier on Wednesday, an Israeli strike hit a school housing displaced Palestinians in another Gaza City neighborhood. 15 were killed. No comment

from the Israeli military.

A day earlier, another school turned shelter in central Gaza was the target not once but twice in the span of five hours, according to witnesses. The

Israeli military said it struck a Hamas command center.

In this graveyard of shredded tents once the school's courtyard, this man describes what he calls a night of horror.

This is what they drop on displaced people in an UNWRA school. Look at these rockets.

Anger here isn't just directed at Israel.

Hamas should get out of the school. They are hiding between the people. Get them out, this woman shouts.

For these girls grief is the only emotion now pouring out.

My friend Lin (ph) is gone. My friend Yuzra (PH) is gone. My friend Miral (PH) is gone. Like so many girls their age they had been planning a party

and were discussing what outfit they were going to wear when the airstrikes hit.

I was holding her hand. Her hand left me and she disappeared. I couldn't find her and ran to hide.

Hours later, her body lies among those of other dead children. Like them her final outfit, a white shroud.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:58]

FOSTER: A social media posts that appear to have come from Pope Leo before he was made pontiff seem to criticize the Trump administration's

immigration policies.

CNN's Whitney Wild spoke to the new pontiff's brother on how Leo might navigate the current political environment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I was talking to a priest yesterday who was really surprised at an American pope was chosen, you know, for a lot of

reasons. But he was also saying, like, he was surprised that a pope would be chosen with the current president in office. With your brother's

experience all around the world and just knowing who he is, how do you think that he will manage the politics, the politics of, you know, the

administration now, the politics of the world, the politics of the church? How do you -- how do you think he will float through that, move through

that?

JOHN PREVOST, BROTHER OF POPE LEO XIV: Very difficult. Very difficult task for anybody. But I think he'll take it seriously. And I think he'll take it

day by day, step by step. I don't think hell rush into it. I don't think there'll be anything rash. I think you will see him be almost a Pope

Francis II.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: What we don't know is will Pope Leo be an American counterweight to the MAGA agenda?

Joining us is Thomas Rzeznik. He's an associate professor of history at Seton Hall University.

And this is something you're going to be, I guess, watching, you know, perhaps it's not so much about the intention of the new pope, because it's

like a lot of the world is basically projecting this responsibility onto him either way.

THOMAS RZEZNIK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, SETON HALL UNIVERSITY: Right, exactly. I mean, we're all going to be watching these -- these

comments coming from the Vatican and from the White House to sort of read the tea leaves to see how these two parties will interact on the world

stage in the years ahead.

FOSTER: You could certainly take some views on immigration and climate change and say they are counter to MAGA, aren't they?

RZEZNIK: They are. But in some ways, these are simply priorities that the Catholic Church has already established before the second Trump presidency.

[15:35:04]

We saw it as in some ways a continuity with Pope Francis and the messaging that was already in place in terms of concern for the poor, concern for

migrants and refugees, concern for the ecological crisis. So, this is not in some way a direct response to the presidency as much as a reiteration of

kind of the priorities of the Catholic Church in the world today.

FOSTER: It's interesting that we end up talking about politics. I think one of these brothers spoke to this, though it shouldn't be -- U.S. politics is

very little to do with this appointment. Also, the cardinal saying it didn't really -- it didn't come into it particularly, but it's the fact he

was born in America and it's even more, you know, more ironic, isn't it, that he spent most of his career in Peru and in the Vatican anyway, so he's

not actually that close to American politics.

RZEZNIK: Right. And that's sort of one of the interesting dynamics at work here that even though there's so much news about the first American pope,

the first U.S. pope, in some ways, Pope Leo XIV was the least American of the American candidates for the papacy. He was born in the United States,

but he spent much of his priestly career in Peru as a missionary and then as a bishop.

And so, as he was there, he kind of his career, then moving on to Rome, his career reflects how being a leader in the Catholic Church is really being a

global citizen.

FOSTER: Yeah. Let's listen to the archbishop of New York, because he had an interesting thought about how he thought Leo would deal with criticism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL TIMOTHY DOLAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: One of the greatest challenges is right here in Italy, as you probably know. He's the bishop of

Rome. Theres kind of a special neighborly relationship with the -- with the bishops and the government of Italy, since they're the host government,

even though the Holy See is independent, they don't have such a sterling reputation either. Remember, Pope Francis took them in.

Yes. So, I think he'll be very evenhanded in criticism. But criticism there will come and he won't back away on an abundance of issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So. It'll be interesting to see when the U.S. president visits the Vatican, won't it? You know, immigration is a big issue for both of these

two men. But we've also seen how President Trump is also quite enamored with pomp and pageantry. Weve seen that in the U.K. He's got differences

with King Charles as well. But he overlooks that because he's interested in the nation and all that comes with it.

I mean, how do you envision, from what we know about Leo, how he operates? And we don't know much about him, obviously, but how those sorts of

meetings would go and issues around immigration in particular?

RZEZNIK: Yes. You're absolutely right that we don't know how he -- how he's going to operate on the world stage as a statesman. But as much as they're

going to be some who will want the pope to speak truth to power directly, I think it's really important to remember that popes often exercise what we

might consider soft power. It's the power that's exercised through symbolic gestures, through, sort of choice of symbolic actions where they travel,

with whom they visit.

Pope Francis understood this very well in the decisions that he made to travel to Lampedusa as one of his first trips as pope, to call witness to

the crisis of migrants and refugees, to stand with the poor. And so, it's going to be interesting to sort of think about how Pope Leo is going to

think about the soft power that he wields. And sort of perhaps follow in Francis's footsteps with maybe not the direct confrontation -- direct

confrontation with a political leader, but with the moral witness that he has as pope.

FOSTER: Okay. Tom, thank you very much indeed. We're going to watch with fascination to see how this all plays out. Thank you.

Now, a U.S. federal judge is ordering the immediate release of a Turkish student at Tufts University after she spent six weeks in U.S. immigration

detention without even being charged.

Omar Jimenez is in New York with the details.

It feels like she's been punished already because of this extraordinary length of time she's been in detention.

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that was one of the main criticisms in this case. Rumeysa Ozturk, Tufts University student, also a Turkish

national doctoral student, and she was detained by immigration enforcement here in the United States. And she's been in detention for now, six weeks.

But the real thing is she has not been charged specifically with any crime. Instead, vaguely, the Trump administration has accused her of participating

in activities in support of Hamas, and her attorneys have said this entire time, the only real evidence that the government is using here is that

Ozturk was coauthored a campus newspaper op-ed that was critical of Tufts University's response to the war in Gaza, that they couldn't find anything

else that the government could possibly be looking at here.

I want you to take a listen, though, to one of the attorneys and what she said after we got the ruling that Ozturk would be released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NOOR ZAFAR, SENIOR STAFF ATTORNEY, ACLU: The government has literally only one single piece of evidence for detaining Rumeysa, and that is the op-ed

that she wrote in her student -- in her student newspaper, expressing views that the government disagrees with or dislikes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: So those are the those are the arguments that the attorneys were making. And then today, the judge in this case essentially confirmed that,

saying there is no evidence here as to the motivation, absent the consideration of the op-ed. And her attorneys have said, just because you

have a political disagreement is not an excuse to hold someone for this long.

Now, Ozturk did appear in this case virtually as part of this, but she actually is still being detained in Louisiana. This court hearing happened

in Vermont. A previous ruling said she needed to come back, but it shows just how complicated this has all become. And another thing that is very

significant about this moment is she is at least the second high profile non-U.S., either activists or citizen, to be released after being put into

detention along these grounds of allegedly participating in activities in support of Hamas alleged by the Trump administration.

The previous Mohsen Mahdawi, a former Columbia University student, he was released last week as well. But these are situations that we have seen play

out across the United States where people are swept up. Then there are court proceedings to try and figure out, well, what evidence is there

actually, and at least in this case, not enough to keep Ozturk detained.

FOSTER: Yeah, okay. Thank you, Omar.

President Donald Trump has named Judge Jeanine Pirro, a former Fox News host, as the interim U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C.

Pirro is a longtime friend and ally of the president. She replaces Ed Martin. He had been selected for the role, but didn't have enough Senate

support to be confirmed.

CNN's Betsy Klein, looking at this from Washington.

I mean, what do we know about her? I mean, obviously, many people in America will know her from the TV, but what do we know about her policy

work?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yeah, exactly. And it is another example, as you mentioned, of President Trump installing a key ally

in a U.S. attorney's office. So, President Trump yesterday announcing in a post to social media he is appointing Judge Jeanine Pirro, interim U.S.

attorney for the District of Columbia.

He called her a powerful crusader for victims of crime. He said she has excelled in all ways and is incredibly well qualified.

Jeanine Pirro is a personal friend of the president. The two have known each other for decades, and she was a regular at Mar-a-Lago long before he

even announced his 2016 presidential bid. Now, in addition to being a longtime television host, she does have legal credentials. She's a former

district attorney. She was a career prosecutor before she came to Fox News. Of course, Fox News announcing that she would be stepping away from her

role as a television host there, where she has been for more than a decade.

She has really used her platform on Fox News to be a strong defender of the president and his policies, and some of his top officials leaning on her

legal background to do so. And she also became a prominent promoter of false election claims. After the 2020 presidential election, she was one of

the people who was named in that Dominion voting systems lawsuit against Fox News, which they ultimately settled.

Now , replacing Pirro's nomination as interim. U.S. attorney for Washington. She's replacing Ed Martin. As you mentioned, Max, he is a

leader in the Stop the Steal movement. He was really a controversial nominee. He has been announced instead as director of the weaponization

working group at the Justice Department, as well as associate deputy attorney general.

Now, North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis had indicated to the White House that he did not plan to vote for Ed Martin's nomination as U.S.

attorney for the District of Columbia. He said he had concerns over Martin's views on the January 6th attacks on the U.S. capitol back in 2021,

but Tillis, shortly after the president announced Pirro's appointment, said that it was a great choice. Of course, Pirro herself, spreading false

claims about the 2020 election as well -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Betsy, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much.

Still coming up, Ukrainian troops on the front lines say Russian forces are repeatedly breaking their own declared temporary ceasefire. Our exclusive

report is for you, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:03]

FOSTER: A three-day Russian imposed ceasefire was due to be taking place as Russia marks victory day celebrations. Meanwhile, President Trump is

turning up the pressure taking to truth social to voice his support for an extended 30-day, unconditional ceasefire.

France's Emmanuel Macron also commending that plan. However, according to Ukrainians on the front lines, even the current three day pause in fighting

hasn't been observed by the Russian side.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has this exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The clock strikes zero, and nothing new comes. The Kremlin promised

72 hours of their guns falling silent.

They have to see if President Vladimir Putin was keeping his word at all.

They knew the answer, but the proof isn't far behind. This National Guard unit can see most of the eastern and southern frontline from one room.

So, it's just saying, three minutes ago, and that will be about just three minutes into the ceasefire. Artillery shooting in the direction of

Pokrovsk, one of the hottest parts of the front line, now.

Rocket launchers a rise in surveillance drones, but this is how it was at Easter when Russia last declared unilateral ceasefire.

"KIR", NATIONAL GUARD OF UKRAINE (translated): That ceasefire was broken several times. The Russian Federation opened fire. They used the ceasefire

to move their troops, regroup, evacuate their wounded, rotate troops, bring in fresh forces and gather along the front line for further assaults.

WALSH: But they also share something remarkable, a window onto the future that's far from peaceful. Outside of most drones range this fast Russian

camp has sprung up in just the last two weeks.

[15:50:02]

An endless network of dugouts, tarpaulins, vehicles, possibly thousands of Russian troops amassing to the south of their front lines, probably not for

a summer of peace.

Twelve hours into the ceasefire, we join this drone unit. Warfare in 2025 is just six men in goggles sitting in the bushes. Feather light -- homemade

drones with 40-kilometer range, smaller attack drones slugging it out in the skies. Nothing has changed with the ceasefire today here, but the war

itself seems to change with ingenuity every week.

They now intercept the feeds of Russian drones themselves see their enemy hunting them.

WALSH: So, this is you watching them, watching you.

"BANKIR", SECURITY SERVICE OF UKRAINE: Yeah.

WALSH: Here's a Russian mortar strike on Ukrainians this morning and a Russian attack on a Ukrainian vehicle at 05:00 a.m.

So, when you guys hear all the talk of how the White House wants to make peace happen here, how do you react to that kind of talk or idea?

"BANKIR": Maybe it will be better they give us real American weapon, and we will show how peace looks like.

"PIXEL", SECURITY SERVICE OF UKRAINE: How to make the peace.

"BANKIR": Because they attack our house. Why do you need to negotiate with somebody?

"PIXEL": I'm from this current village. I'm born here. And my mother still lives here. And I'm here to protect her.

WALSH: Peace here something simple and vital without tricks or limits.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, on the Eastern Front in Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Finally, tonight, Pope Leo has called for dialogue and building bridges. But his rise to the top of the Catholic Church has proved divisive

in his hometown of Chicago. That's because the Windy City has two major league baseball teams. It's a heated rivalry between the Cubs and the White

Sox, and both sides are trying to claim the pope as one of their own.

A Wrigley Field on the north side, the Cubs congratulated Leo, calling him a Cubs fan. But the popes brother chimed in and said, no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PREVOST: That' not true.

REPORTER: How long has he been a Sox fan? Tell me about that.

PREVOST: I would, as long as I've known him all along. We were both altar boys, so that was one of the rewards that we got was to go to a Sox game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: The White Sox pounced on that news. Of course, they did. Congratulating the pope. Here was their sign a Rate Field on South Side.

The Sox even printed up a Leo, the 14th jersey, which the team is sending to Rome, although it hasn't yet helped them climb off the bottom of the

league table. Isn't that brilliant?

I'm Max Foster.

This -- that is WHAT WE KNOW.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS