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What We Know with Max Foster
Trump-Musk Relationship Sours Over Trump Budget Bill; Trump Hosts German Chancellor For High-Stakes Meeting; Doctors Without Borders: End Gaza "Carnage"; Trum Signs New U.S. Travel Ban, Citing Security Risks; Trump Halts New International Student Enrollment At Harvard; Trump And Xi Hold Long-Awaited Phone Call. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 05, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:15]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: President Donald Trump and Elon Musk turn on each other in a very public spat.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
The bromance between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk almost certainly over. In an online post a short while ago, Mr. Trump called the tech
billionaire crazy and that Musk was wearing thin. That's after Musk called on the U.S. Senate to kill the so-called big, beautiful bill.
The president told reporters Musk isn't unlike others that have left his administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's not the first people leave my administration, and they love us. And then at some point, they
miss it so badly, and some of them embrace it, and some of them actually become hostile. I don't know what it is. It's sort of Trump derangement
syndrome, I guess they call it.
But I -- we have it with others, too. They leave and they wake up in the morning and the glamours gone. The whole world is different, and they
become hostile. I don't know what it is. Someday, you'll write a book about it and you'll let us know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Musk slammed the president, tweeting: Without me, Trump would have lost the election. T
he Tesla CEO spent more than $290 million to help Mr. Trump and other Republicans in the 2024 election. So, what we want to know is the Trump-
Musk bromance over forever? What are the real world consequences here?
Let's go to CNN senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes.
I mean, just take us through the to and fro. Since that meeting at the White House, because, I mean, it really has taken a nasty turn.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, if you really want to go back, we go back to last Friday when Elon Musk left the
White House after his tenure, 130 days, where he served as a special advisor to the president, he had a sendoff with Donald Trump, told it was
Donald Trump's idea to do this, and then he left the government going back to run his businesses. Now, just about two days ago, Elon Musk started
hitting the quote, unquote, "big, beautiful bill".
That, of course, is Donald Trump's legacy bill that is currently in the Senate. This is something that Donald Trump is really at the heart of what
he wants to do while he is in the administration. It started off with attacks on the bill. First, he said he was disappointed. Then it started on
more brutal attacks online, calling the bill pork-filled, saying shame on anyone who voted for it. The press secretary at the time kind of laughed it
off and said Donald Trump knew where Elon Musk stood on this bill already, and that is not going to change his opinion of it.
But now, it's really escalated and really escalated and devolved at the same time. Essentially, Elon Musk continuing to hit this bill over and over
and over again. Donald Trump finally asked about it today, the first time he was in front of reporters since this started.
And he went after Musk. He said that they had a relationship. He didn't know if they ever would again. And now it has spilled over onto online, and
they seem to be going back and forth insulting one another.
At one point, Donald Trump said in the Oval Office that he believed that this was all about the electric vehicle mandate, which he said Elon already
knew about Elon, saying he didn't know he had never seen the bill, that this was all news to him, but it was about the big bill -- the bill being
too big anyway.
Now we've taken it off of the, you know, in front of the cameras and onto the internet. You have Donald Trump posting this: Elon was wearing thin. I
asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted, that he knew for months I was going
to do, and he just went crazy.
Now he's threatening to take away his governmental subsidies and contracts, saying that they could save billions of dollars. We just heard from Elon
Musk responding to this, saying, go ahead and make my day.
Now, the really interesting part of all of this is that it had been long speculated that Donald Trump and Elon Musk would eventually come to a point
where their relationship blew up. They both have huge egos. They both are big personalities.
But what we saw was a sigh of relief from the administration and people close to Donald Trump after Friday, when it seemed like Elon was going to
go on his way. They parted ways. He was going to be out of everyone's hair, and they could move forward.
Obviously, now, you are seeing this really blow up in real time as Donald Trump is taking on Elon Musk. We're about to see him again in another
event. I imagine he'll talk about it again because obviously he wants to engage on this topic. Musk is not backing down any time soon, so it's
getting uglier and uglier by the minute. And it really is like watching a public breakup.
FOSTER: Yeah. Kristen, thank you so much. Looking at the share price of Tesla as well down more than, well, nearly 14 percent since that meeting.
So it's having a real impact. We'll talk about that a bit later on, too. Thank you, Kristen.
Now, today's spat between the U.S. president and Elon Musk overshadowing an earlier meeting between Donald Trump and the German chancellor.
[15:05:03]
The meeting comes against the backdrop of sometimes tense relations between the U.S. and Europe over everything from tariffs to NATO defense spending
to the Russia-Ukraine war.
At one point, Mr. Trump compared Moscow and Kyiv to two children fighting on a schoolyard, saying let them fight for a while. The German leader,
meanwhile, doubled down on his country's support for Ukraine.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRIEDRICH MERZ, GERMAN CHANCELLOR: America is again in a very strong position to do something on this war and ending this war. So, let's talk
about what we can do jointly, and we are ready to do what we can. And you know that we gave support to Ukraine, and that we are looking for more
pressure on Russia. The European Union did. And we should talk about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Fred Pleitgen now with a view from Bberlin.
He appeared to handle this meeting pretty well. Of course, he didn't have the ambush treatment, did he? But he did get his points across. But do you
think he'll make much progress with Donald Trump?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I'm not sure that he's going to be able to make much progress. I do
think you're absolutely right. He did manage to get his points across. And you're also right that he didn't get ambushed. And I think that those are
all things, at least the second two that are very important for Friedrich Merz.
I can tell you, Max, in the run up to this meeting, there was a lot of nervousness on the part of the German delegation that possibly this could
descend into something like what we saw between President Trump and the Ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, or the leader of South Africa, that
it could become very ugly in the Oval Office.
And so from that perspective, the Germans very happy about the way all of this went down. The tone was very cordial, also very jovial as well. And at
the same time, Friedrich Merz seemed to have the strategy to speak as little as possible, because of course, also there were other topics that
President Trump touched on, like for instance, his spat with Elon Musk.
But I think the point that he wanted to break -- to bring across was really the one about Ukraine, with the Germans saying that they are supporting
Ukraine, that they will continue to support Ukraine. And he did somewhat also touch on the president saying that he believed that all of this is
sort of like two children fighting, and sometimes you need to let them fight.
He did say that he believes that the U.S. can do more to try and stop the war, that the Germans would also do the same. He also placed the blame
squarely on the Russians for the invasion of Ukraine. And so therefore, it was quite clear in some of the comments that he made, while at the same
time keeping the atmosphere one of being very friendly and non- confrontational between these two leaders, Max.
FOSTER: There's a big debate obviously in the background, with NATO and funding. Europe realizing and very much led by Germany as the most wealthy
country in Europe, that they have to spend more on defense. It's still this outstanding question, though, isn't it, about whether or not America will
be as involved in NATO as it was in the past, and will protect Europe if it does come under a threat from Russia?
PLEITGEN: Yeah, I think -- and I think that that was a really important question. First of all, you're absolutely right. Germany is obviously by
far, the biggest country in Europe, in NATO, the wealthiest country in Europe in NATO.
But at the same time, also as far as defense spending is concerned, one of the ones that spends the least, as far as GDP is concerned. And so, the
Germans are saying are definitely giving signals to the White House saying that that is going to change. They've even talked about possibly embracing
that goal of 5 percent, even though it's not clear how exactly they're going to do that and when exactly they're going to do that.
But certainly, one of the messages that I think Friedrich Merz wanted to send to President Trump today is to say, look, the Germans are on board
with higher defense spending than before. And there is something that we also picked up on that the Germans certainly are saying to them was
somewhat of a reassurance because President Trump was asked in that encounter with the press whether or not the U.S. was going to keep American
troops on the ground in Germany.
There's around 40,000 to 50,000 U.S. troops on the ground here, and President Trump said, yes, the U.S. would do that if the Germans would have
them. Now, this was seen by many here in berlin as a clear signal of the United States, first of all, keeping its forces on the ground here in
Europe.
But then also, of course, maintaining its stake here in European security. So that alone for Friedrich Merz will have been good progress, even though
it's unclear whether or not on the Ukraine subject much progress, real progress was really made, Max.
FOSTER: Fred, thank you so much.
Returning to those exploding tensions between President Trump and Elon Musk, two days after Musk slammed the U.S. president's tax and spending
bill as a disgusting abomination, today in the Oval Office, President Trump said Musk knew the inner workings of the bill better than almost anyone,
but, quote, all of a sudden now has a problem with it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we'll anymore. I was surprised because you were here. Everybody in this room practically
was here as we had a wonderful sendoff. He said wonderful things about me. You couldn't have nicer, said the best things.
He's worn the hat, Trump was right about everything.
[15:10:02]
And I am right about the great, big, beautiful bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.
I mean, the reality here is they've fallen out very publicly and they're both going to want to win, aren't they? They are huge egos.
How dangerous could Elon Musk be where you are? Could he derail this bill now if he really goes in hard?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Potentially because the margins are so narrow in the House and the Senate. Remember in the Senate,
you can only afford to lose three Republican senators to pass this bill. Iin the House, similar. Three Republican House members. And they passed
this in the House by just a single vote.
So, any member who may be upset about this bill, whether it's about the deficit, which is the concern that Elon Musk is raising, could certainly
kill it. And in the Senate side right now, they're trying to debate the Republicans are trying to develop their own plan. Changes to the House
passed proposal to try to get it out of their chamber.
The question is going to be whether they go more to what Elon Musk is calling for deeper spending cuts, or whether they try to appease some of
the more moderate members who are concerned about some of the structure of the way this legislation is, particularly when it pertains to cuts to
programs that they favor.
Now, I caught up with some Republican senators in the last couple of days asking them about Elon Musk's concerns about the attacks, about this bill
leading to unsustainable debt in the eyes of Elon Musk. Some of them agreed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Are you worried about the -- what Elon Musk is saying here about that? This bill could really drive up the national debt?
SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): Who's going to drive up the debt? I mean, it's -- all you got to do is look at the numbers. It's going to continue to
grow. And what, in 20 years, it's going to go up 20, 33 more dollars. We can't afford that to happen. Okay, the big, beautiful bill is big. Not a
lot of it is beautiful. Some of it is beautiful. But again, when you mix it all together, it just makes it that much harder.
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): The way that the level that Mr. Musk is operating. I can't really respond to that.
RAJU: If someone is up, are you concerned about the blowback he's warning you guys?
TILLIS: I don't -- Manu, you ought to know I don't worry about blowback. I do -- I do policy I believe in, move forward and expect to get elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: Now, the question is ultimately going to be whether they can get the votes in the United States Senate, because that is the focus at the moment.
They're trying to craft this bill to get actually legislative text together as soon as next week, get it out of the Senate chamber by the end of this
month. And on to Donald Trump's desk by July 4th. But to do that, they have to bridge significant divides, Max, on how to change U.S. tax policy,
changes to federal programs, cuts that are going to a number of very politically sensitive programs, including Medicaid, which is the health
care program for the disabled and the poor.
And those are the kind of debates that is still happening behind the scenes and in public among Republican senators. But can they bridge the divide,
and can they do that with Elon Musk absolutely panning this bill and criticizing Republicans who back it? That is going to be a big question in
the next couple of weeks here, because Donald Trump's entire agenda really resides on the fate of this bill.
FOSTER: Manu, thank you so much for that, from Capitol Hill. Just looking at the Tesla share price down nearly 15 percent now since that meeting. So,
you know, away from his political concerns, he's also -- Musk has also got some major business concerns.
Look at that. That's pretty extraordinary. That is actually since the meeting in the White House and this spat really blew out into the open.
That is billions and billions dollars worth of wealth that's just been lost. It's still heading down as well.
Doctors Without Borders, meanwhile, saying all of the red lines in Gaza have been crossed and it's demanding the world take action to, quote, end
this carnage.
Dozens of the charity's staff has protested outside the U.N.'s Geneva headquarters, saying the new aid distribution mechanism in Gaza is costing
lives. A U.S.-Israeli-backed foundation reopened two sites today, distributing food for an hour.
Earlier in the week, dozens of people were killed when they came under fire whilst trying to approach aid sites. Doctors Without Borders says no one
should be forced to run a gantlet of bullets just to get bread.
The group also says some medics in Gaza are giving their own blood now to help the injured, because most Palestinians are too malnourished to donate
blood themselves.
Last hour, a British surgeon who recently returned from Gaza spoke to Isa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. VICTORIA ROSE, BRITISH SURGEON: I have to say, it's the worst it's ever been since I've been going to Gaza. We were last there in August, and
the number of casualties that we saw on this mission has skyrocketed, particularly the number of children. We were running an operating list in
our theater block, which just had plastics and orthopedics, and we would have ten patients on that list. And every day, at least half of them were
under the age of ten. It was really shocking.
[15:15:00]
So very small children with very significant injuries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Coming up, Washington and the world are reacting to President Trump's new travel ban. Details ahead on which countries being targeted.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: After this weekend, a new Trump travel ban is set to go into effect for nearly 20 countries. Here you can see exactly who is being
targeted with either full or partial restrictions. For all but four of the 19 countries, the administration points to high rates of nationals
overstaying their visas in the U.S.
President Donald Trump is using the recent attack in Boulder, Colorado, as justification, but the suspect is from Egypt, a country that's not on the
list.
Mr. Trump spoke on this decision earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Egypt has been a country that we deal with very closely. They have things under control. The countries that we have don't have things under
control. And why now, I can say that it can't come soon enough, frankly. We want to keep bad people out of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: My next guest is immigration attorney Claudia Canizares.
Thank you so much for joining us. Just your reaction really to the news today.
CLAUDIA CANIZARES, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY: Honestly, we were expecting this travel ban months ago, and we were surprised that the travel ban was not
rolled out before. I am glad that the travel ban was more limited than the draft that we had seen previously that was leaked by a couple of media
outlets, and I'm not happy with the travel ban, but I am also happy at the same time that they created certain exceptions specifically for the lawful
permanent residence, since all travel bans had created a lot of chaos for people who are lawful permanent residents already.
FOSTER: You're originally from Cuba, aren't you?
[15:20:00]
CANIZARES: Yeah.
FOSTER: What's been the reaction there? Because it's on this list.
CANIZARES: Yes. Cuba and Venezuela are both on the list. And the reaction from the Cuban community is that obviously, they are shocked, but at the
same time, they are glad that the restriction is they're not included in the list of the 12 countries that have the most severe restrictions. So at
least they can keep the process of family petitions. They can keep applying for adjustment. Here in the United States, under the Cuban Adjustment Act,
and it comes as a relief because we were expecting to be in the most restricted countries.
FOSTER: When we talk about the most restricted, does that mean nobody can travel from that country to the U.S.?
CANIZARES : It means nobody can travel from that country to the U.S. unless you are in one of the exceptions and the exceptions, as you can read in the
document, applies to people traveling with -- under an immediate relative petition, and they have to prove DNA relationship. People traveling under
an adoption petition, people traveling as a for the World Cup or for the Olympics, or people traveling for diplomatic reasons and other and the
Afghan program and other programs designated for refugees and asylees.
FOSTER: So, what are you able to advise people within those countries who, you know, very often have a really important reason to visit the U.S.? I
mean, what's the process going to be like for you?
CANIZARES: Honestly, the people that are in the list of the most restrictive countries, I would advise even the lawful permanent residents,
I would tell them, do not travel. I know that you have an exception, but we have seen that these travel bans create a lot of confusion with the
airlines, with CBP, and in the next few weeks, you may experience problems entering the country. So, I would recommend, at least for the next few
weeks, to hold off on traveling.
Also, the people who are filing a family petition, let's say that you are lawful permanent resident and that you're petitioning your kids, do
consider becoming a U.S. citizen so you can file as an immediate relative, and that's something that you're going to have to discuss with an
immigration attorney.
Additionally, try to work with an immigration attorney to see if you do qualify for an exception so you can come in into the country. If you are
within the countries that are not as restrictive, then you should be okay. Unless you have a tourist visa or a J visa or a student visa.
Unfortunately, the less restrictive countries, they did cancel the issuance of student visas for those people.
FOSTER: Attorney Claudia Canizares, thank you so much for joining us. You've got a lot of work ahead of you, haven't you? Either way --
CANIZARES: We do.
FOSTER: -- now. Thank you for joining us.
President Trump is also suspending international visas for new students at America's oldest university. Mr. Trump's proclamation from Wednesday is
once again targeting students aiming to attend Harvard. The White House accuses Harvard of having, quote, foreign ties and radicalism.
In response to this escalating dispute, the Ivy League school said that President Trump's latest move is yet another example of illegal
retaliation.
Still to come, U.S. President Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping break the ice. Why there's renewed hope tonight that stalled trade talks can get a
jump start.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:27:28]
FOSTER: As we've been following this hour, tensions between President Donald Trump and Elon Musk have exploded into the open.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we'll anymore. I was surprised because you were here. Everybody in this room practically
was here as we had a wonderful sendoff. He said wonderful things about me. You couldn't have nicer said the best things. He's worn the hat. Trump was
right about everything, and I am right about the great, big, beautiful bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: This after the Tesla CEO slammed a tax and spending bill. That beautiful bill, as he called it, as a disgusting abomination. The two men
are now lashing out at each other on social media, with the U.S. president saying just minutes ago that he had asked the tech billionaire to leave the
White House.
Let's have a look at the Tesla share price with Anna Stewart.
I mean, that's pretty extraordinary. And down 15 percent is technically a crash?
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's technically more than 15 percent I would say is a crash.
FOSTER: Yes.
STEWART: This is an extraordinary reaction.
FOSTER: Since the meeting, isn't it? I think --
STEWART: This is since the meeting. This is what's interesting, because if we take the two things, you've got the fact that the tax incentive for EVs
is potentially being removed with this tax bill. And that's why the president is saying Elon Musk is so unhappy with the bill.
Now, JPMorgan says that could cost Tesla around $3 billion. So, you have that already. But we knew that. What's interesting is this share price
reaction is really happened. Since the incredible comments made in this press conference with the German chancellor, I don't think any of us were
expecting it to go into such detail.
And ever since then, if you look at Elon Musk's X page right now, endless posts and reposts saying he knew nothing about the bill, pointing out
falsehoods and what President Trump said, and ultimately the most recent one saying, is it time to create a new political party in America that
actually represents the 80 percent in the middle?
FOSTER: I'm going to talk to Kevin Liptak about that in a moment. But in terms of the share price, Tesla investors, they're clearly looking at this
saying this cannot be good for them.
STEWART: Yes. And there are a number of things that are going a bit wrong for Tesla at the moment. Sales in Europe have absolutely plummeted,
particularly here in the U.K. Sales down around 40 percent. People weren't happy with the Musk effect. The fact that Musk has become such a political
figure, both in the U.S., but also in some of the things he's been saying about in German politics, he's waded into British politics. So that has had
an impact on Tesla.
Then there's the fact that he was distracted by DOGE for so many months, and shareholders wanted him to come back to the fold and focus on running
the business.
[15:30:02]
Now we have this issue of the EV incentives, and a U.S. president who clearly really doesn't like him.
FOSTER: So the investors, I know you -- probably this has only happened in the last hour. So you haven't spoken to investors, but they're probably
thinking Trump might punish Musk via Tesla, right?
STEWART: Exactly. And we don't know in what respect that could be. But I think what we have learned from the U.S. president and his trade policies
is that he can have it in for certain businesses and certain people. So, I guess investors at this stage are worrying, how bad does this get?
Because Elon Musk isn't holding back. He is going full throttle on the criticism of the president at this stage.
FOSTER: I'll let you keep across your various social platforms. This just in to see an end. Meanwhile, the Israeli military says its attacking
Hezbollah targets in the southern suburb of Beirut.
Earlier, it warned residents that it would carry out airstrikes against what it called drone production facilities. A Lebanese news agency says the
announcement triggered mass evacuations and panic.
These are the live images for you. Look at that. The smoke really rising up in the area. This is something we haven't seen for some time there, and the
lights are up across the city. But this is a new stage in -- I mean, there's tensions between Hezbollah and Israel, obviously.
Now, to what may be a thawing of relations in the trade ties between the world's two largest economies. The U.S. President Trump says trade talks
will be held shortly between the United States and China, amid what seems to be a very fragile trade truce right now. That's after Mr. Trump spoke by
phone earlier today with Chinese Leader Xi Jinping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We had a very good talk and we've straightened out any complexity. It's very complex stuff. And we straighten it out. The agreement was we're
going to have Scott and Howard and Jamieson will be going and meeting with their top people.
He invited me to China, and I invited him here. We both accepted. So I'll be going there with the first lady at a certain point, and he'll be coming
here, hopefully, with the first lady of China.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Mr. Trump called the Chinese president a great leader one day after he described President Xi as very tough and extremely hard to make a
deal with, in an online post. Not necessarily, negative, though always that sort of language coming from Donald Trump.
Kevin. I mean, that was a big moment, wasn't it, China. But are we all distracted by what's happening with Musk as well.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, I think you're right. The spate of events I think is somewhat overwhelming at the White House.
Ordinarily, a call between the U.S. president and the president of China would probably be the biggest news of the day coming out of the White
House. But then you have the president exploding his relationship with Elon Musk, which has now sort of set tongues wagging in Washington, where Musk,
I should say, has not left a great reputation.
Not many people, even inside the Trump administration, are very eager to defend Elon Musk after he essentially took away a lot of the power of these
cabinet agencies and cut staff without asking the people who are running them. So, it is kind of a fascinating dynamic that's playing out now. But I
do think this call with Xi Jinping had been in the works for so long.
And you heard President Trump talking about it so often over the last several months without necessarily being able to get Xi on the phone, which
had led to an enormous amount of frustration, especially when you think back to the president's first term in office. It only took 76 days from
when the president was inaugurated in 2017, to when Xi was sitting at Mar- a-Lago eating a beautiful piece of chocolate cake, listening to Donald Trump's granddaughter serenading him in mandarin.
It's obviously a very different dynamic now, and I think this conversation between the two men, really in the hopes of President Trump, goes a long
way in establishing more normal trade relationship between the two countries. You heard him say there that they're going to dispatch their
trade teams to sort of begin these discussions. Really, the trade war between the U.S. and China has now expanded into a supply chain war. You
hear all of these concerns from American officials that the Chinese have put restrictions on these rare earth minerals, which are so essential to
creating so many different products in the U.S.
You've seen these punitive actions on the U.S. side restricting Chinese student visas, restricting the sale of some jet engine parts. I think the
hope is that at least getting together face to face, potentially when the two men travel to each other's countries, will be able to reset this
relationship. But there's sort of no question that things are going to remain tense between Washington and Beijing, no matter how close the two
presidents become.
FOSTER: Kevin, I'm just looking at. X. You know, the -- you know, it's an absolute tirade coming from Elon Musk, the world's richest man today
against Donald Trump. He's obviously very powerful in Washington, still. He's talking about
setting up another political party even at this point.
Is there a risk that he could split the MAGA vote? And, you know, in terms of this bill, could he blow it up effectively?
LIPTAK: I think that that might be overstating things a little bit. President Trump has an enormous amount of power within the Republican
Party. He has enormous sway among Republican voters. We saw that in the election last year. You see that continue.
I think the prospect of Elon Musk actually being successful in creating a new political party is perhaps a little farfetched. I think the one thing
that he has going for him is he's the richest man in the world. He's shown a willingness to spend an enormous amount of money to advance his political
interests. He spent $260 million last year getting Donald Trump elected and fellow Republicans elected.
He actually promised, and I think this is now an open question that he would donate another $100 million to Trump controlled political entities
heading into next year's midterm elections. I can't really foresee that happening now, given the break that is underway between these two men.
You know, Musk does have a lot of power. He could have potential influence with Republican senators who are watching their own reelection prospects in
the coming year or coming years, but they will have to decide how they vote on this big, beautiful bill, as Trump calls it, how they decide that will
essentially pit either going with Trump or going with Musk.
FOSTER: Yeah, which could actually work in Trump's favor because people won't necessarily want to be seen with going with Musk.
Thank you so much, Kevin.
In Brussels, Donald Trump's defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, meeting with his fellow NATO defense ministers. Hegseth is now pushing for NATO allies
to raise their military spending to 5 percent of their GDP across the alliance. He also says NATO has to, quote, keep combat ready capabilities
and be more than just flags and conferences. Here's what NATO chief Mark Rutte had to say about the spending proposal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK RUTTE, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Agreeing on what we need was a vital first step to deliver on these needs, allies will need to invest much more
in defense. I will propose an overall investment plan that will total 5 percent of GDP and defense investment, 3.5 percent of GDP for core defense
spending. This is based on what it will cost to meet the new capability targets that ministers have just agreed, and 1.5 percent of GDP per year in
defense and security related investments like infrastructure and industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: What we don't know is, will NATO countries actually ever spend 5 percent of their GDP on defense?
Joining me now, Nic Robertson.
Because it's a -- it's a lot of money. And at a time when a lot of people are feeling a cost of living crisis in the wealthy countries.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: There's a big sell on this at the moment. I mean, you have just in the U.K. in the last couple of
days, the prime minister talking about investing in defense, although nothing close to 3.5 or even 5 percent, but talking about going onto a war
footing. And that's really the narrative you've heard from Pete Hegseth today, from the U.S. ambassador to NATO, from Mark Rutte, the U.N.
secretary, NATO secretary general, many of the defense ministers going in, talking about a threat from Russia.
NATO's intelligence says that Russia is rearming, re-equipping and retooling its military. And if it does that the way it's doing it, it will
be stronger, potentially or more capable than NATO. At least NATO wouldn't have the capability to adequately defend against it. So that's the
narrative that's behind this that you must -- NATO must spend more to be competitive and ahead of Russia to be a deterrent.
And of course, in the Baltics, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, et cetera., they feel that very keenly. And it is another piece of context here that's quite
staggering when you think about it. Mark Rutter was talking about historic. He said, we don't like to use that word too often. But today's historic, 5
percent of GDP is at the peak of the Cold War --
FOSTER: Yeah.
ROBERTSON: -- what NATO allies were spending.
So yeah, put it in that context. This is a big lift. But the requirement is big.
FOSTER: You were talking to me earlier about the way it's made up. It's not actually 5 percent, is it? It's 3.5 plus 1.5. The 3.5 is quite clear.
You know, you've got to get stronger in terms of military.
But the 1.5 is you can put it into infrastructure projects. And you know and the suggestion is that, oh, we might take some of that money for this
bridge because, you know, we need it in a war.
ROBERTSON: Yeah. I mean, there are some fundamentals here. Germany is a key route for NATO to rapidly deploy forces to this eastern flank. So, its
road bridges and its rail bridges have to be ready. You had the Dutch defense minister going into the meeting today saying, look, we think that
Rotterdam is a key port for some of those military facilities, NATO to come in and rush to the front lines.
[15:40:10]
Therefore, that should be included.
You had the Canadian defense minister saying, look, were spending 6 billion on ensuring greater defense and security in the in the high north, in the
Arctic area. The implication being that should be put in there.
But there are things going on that Russia is doing inside of Europe -- hybrid attacks, attacks on aircraft carrying packages, civilian airliners
spoofing the GPS, setting fire to shopping malls, multiple, multiple things. Russia is having a hybrid war inside of Europe, at least 44
registered events, according to some experts last year.
And part of this 1.5 will be readying for that, readying for the cyber tackling, the cyber threat, things that mark rutter talked about today. The
U.K. health service being impacted by Russian hybrid attacks, cyberattacks. So, this hybrid war, that's where that 1.5 percent is also going to focus.
But yes, countries looking at how they can bundle in to meet their own needs.
FOSTER: But -- I mean, there's a bit of I don't know how to describe it. We're going to have to leave it anyway. But the idea that keep the war
going, you know, we need to deal with Ukraine because, you know, either way, if you --
ROBERTSON: If don't support -- if you don't support Ukraine, then Russia gets much more ready, much more quickly and becomes a quicker threat to
Europe. You need to keep fighting. You need to keep supporting Ukraine so that NATO can get itself ready for Russia's growing threat.
FOSTER: It also needs time.
Nic, thank you very much.
Still to come, excitement in the gaming community for the launch of Nintendo's Switch 2. We'll speak to one industry leader about this and the
future of gaming. You can't actually buy it anywhere, of course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:06]
FOSTER: Excitement in the gaming world as Nintendo drops its Switch 2. Eager consumers lined up early to get their hands on one. The hybrid gaming
console is more powerful than the original Switch, which, with improved graphics, a larger screen, and the world of games just keeps growing.
Nearly 4 billion people play games globally, sparking a rise in the popularity of e-sports, which is part of it. Hundreds of millions of people
engage in esports. Put simply, organized competitions centered around video gaming.
It's now a multi-billion dollar industry in its own right. The global esports market is expected to reach a value of more than $5 billion by
2029.
Joining us is the head of G2 Esports, Alban Dechelotte.
Did I get that right?
ALBAN DECHELOTTE, CEO, G2 ESPORTS: That's perfect.
FOSTER: Thank you. I know it's not perfect, but you're very polite.
I just want to talk about gaming because it is changing everything, isn't it? Especially for young people. It's not just something to do. It's
community. And it's a way of storytelling that they understand.
DECHELOTTE: Yeah. I think it's interesting because in the past, a good movie was becoming a video game.
FOSTER: Yeah.
DECHELOTTE: Now a good video game becomes a movie.
FOSTER: Becomes a movie, yeah.
DECHELOTTE: And so this is clear that the gaming aspect is now becoming the center of gravity in terms of entertainment.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: Influencing fashion, influencing art.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: And for sure, at the center of many communities.
FOSTER: But is the gaming? How would you describe gaming as its developed? Is it -- is it a way of life or is it the actual playing the game?
DECHELOTTE: I mean, if I have to define it, it's like interactive entertainment. So it's an entertainment that you're not watching passively,
but you are influencing the story.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: That's for me.
FOSTER: That's the fundamental difference. You can choose the story.
DECHELOTTE: You build the story, and more and more, you're not alone against a computer. You're amongst other humans that are participating in
the same story with you at the same time. And that creates like this interesting moment where we are not just who we are personally.
We also have avatars that are experiencing emotions, are dressing up, are behaving, but sometimes we different genders, sometimes with different
attitude, that what we will do in the real life, in this virtual worlds.
FOSTER: What about the stranger part of things, which is -- I mean, these, these gamers on streaming platforms who are playing and people are
watching?
DECHELOTTE: Yeah.
FOSTER: So, the people watching aren't playing, but they have huge audiences and they watch for hours, which is a really hard to do in today's
media landscape.
DECHELOTTE: But I would start by making comparison. I think we have been listening to radio a lot. We have been watching some competition in sports
such as American football that not a lot of people are practicing in the real world, they are mostly watching it.
So, I think it's not really new that there are celebrities that are influenced mass with things that we can repeat at home. That's just the
case with like people that have special gift ever to competes at the highest level of video games like we cannot do, or entertain with very
special tone of voice or humor that you want to watch because they bring you joy and entertainment.
FOSTER: Is the -- what you call physical sports world a bit sniffy about you still?
DECHELOTTE: No, I think -- I remember in 2018, we had the first weeks in Lausanne, where the IOC met all the publishers from video games and it was
a little bit like, we don't need you and we don't need you on both side. You know, it was like, sniffing around competitions with frenemies.
FOSTER: But the money got involved.
DECHELOTTE: And then I think two things. One of the publishers see the benefits of elevating the games to a mass, and I think the Olympics are
fantastic story getting (INAUDIBLE), you know? I get involved in ping pong because a French guy was doing ping pong.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: And at the same time, I think maybe the spot movement is scoring that the age of audiences is getting older and older every year.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: And they need to find new ways to connect with the youth.
FOSTER: But they're going -- you're singing deals with sports teams, aren't you? Real sports teams that can get involved.
DECHELOTTE: That's nice but like a team like D2 (ph) which is like (INAUDIBLE) try to find shortly now is blurring the line and they say like
we have teams per games, why don't we adds teams in things that not games? So, we just signed three months ago a football team that is competing in
football competition called Kings League (ph).
Forty-five of the World Cup that is happening right now in Paris, and it's super normal for us, super normal for us because just another competitive
aspect for us.
FOSTER: Yes.
DECHELOTTE: And our fans love it because it's another way for me to experience another team.
FOSTER: Thank you so much for coming in and telling us about this.
[15:50:00]
Sean "Diddy" Combs, meanwhile, getting a strong warning. After the break, we'll tell you why a judge is threatening to throw him out of court.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: A New York judge is threatening to throw Sean "Diddy" Combs out of court. That warning came during Thursday's proceedings of Combs' sex
trafficking trial. The judge warned the defense Combs will be excluded if he continues to try to interact with the jury, the judge adds during
testimony earlier, he saw Combs looking at the jury and, in his words, nodding vigorously.
Joining us outside the court, CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister -- Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was a very strong warning from the judge who told Diddy's defense that if he
continues to make attempts to interact with the jury, that he will be excluded from his own trial, meaning that he will not be able to sit inside
that courtroom and face his accusers, which, of course, he has the right to do as a defendant.
Now, as you said, the judge said that he himself noticed Combs nodding vigorously on two different occasions during testimony earlier today from
Bryana Bongolan, who was a close friend of Cassie Ventura.
Now, I do want to point out that the jury was not present for this warning. So, the jury theoretically has no idea that this happened. The jury is
instructed not to watch the news, not to read any media. So theoretically, if they are listening to the judge's instructions, they should not know
about this.
Now, I want to tell you what's happening right now in court. The government's third and final victim, who is testifying under the pseudonym
Jane. She is currently on the stand. She's been on there for roughly about an hour, and she's just starting to talk about her relationship with Combs.
She is a former girlfriend. She says that the relationship started off great, that she was very much in love with him, but then that he started to
talk about his fantasies, which were her having sex with another man. Of course, that echoing Cassie Ventura's testimony, we know that she said that
she was coerced into these freak-offs for 11 years. So again, Jane Doe similar and continuing her testimony.
FOSTER: Elizabeth, thank you so much. We'll stay across that one.
Back to some breaking news out of Lebanon, though. Israel carrying out airstrikes on the southern suburbs of Beirut after issuing evacuation
warnings.
[15:55:02]
It says it's targeting Hezbollah's underground drone producing facilities. Plumes of black smoke could be seen on the skies above Beirut after those
blasts. As you can see, this is the scene right now.
Do stay with all of this as we keep across it. Richard will have more in the next hour.
I'm Max Foster, though. That is WHAT WE KNOW.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" up next.
END
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