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What We Know with Max Foster
Trump & Musk Turn On Each Other In Escalating Public Feud; U.S. Jobs Report Shows Addition Of 139,000 Jobs In May; Israel Confirms It's Arming Hamas Rivals In Gaza; Moscow Launches One Of War's Largest Air Attacks On Ukraine; Source: Kilmar Abrego Garcia Being Returned To U.S. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 06, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:19]
ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: President Donald Trump and Elon Musk have yet to speak after their spectacular and very public fallout.
I'm Isa Soares, in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.
U.S. President Donald Trump is planning to get rid of his red Tesla. You remember that one in a symbolic move to cut all ties with Elon Musk. This
week's dramatic fallout led to several online attacks. In his most personal attack, Musk accuses the U.S. president of being in the Jeffrey Epstein
files. As you can see, and quote, that is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJT.
At the heart of this feud is Donald Trump's massive tax, as well as domestic policy bill. And this all started, if you remember, on Tuesday
when Musk called it, quote, a disgusting abomination talking about the bill.
Despite this, U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson hopes the pair can patch things up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I'm not going to speak for either of them. I was with the president in the Oval Office yesterday
afternoon as some of this unfolded, and I can just say he was disappointed. I mean, he said that himself and I was as well. And but look, I believe in
redemption. I hope we can resolve it and get everybody together again. Thats really important for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's go straight to our senior White House correspondent Kirsten Holmes for more.
And, Kirsten, you know, what more are you hearing? Is the White House saying about some of these claims, big claims that Elon is making?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, the White House has been relatively silent. And I'm told that is intentional,
that this is a directive from the top, from President Trump to not engage in this, to stay focused on what he calls the Big, Beautiful Bill. Just a
reminder, that's what started this whole thing. And it's really Donald Trump's legacy bill.
It's in front of the Senate right now. And it's one of the things he cares about most. He believes that everything that he does is going to be tied up
into this bill, and that's what he's going to be remembered for. So that is what he is telling his team to keep focused on, to keep talking about the
bill, to keep trying to get it through the Senate, to talk to senators and to keep really praising the bill as much as possible.
We saw some of this yesterday because after Elon Musk posted this thing about Donald Trump being in the Epstein files, Donald Trump wrote on truth
social addressing Elon, but did not address those claims. He just said, too bad that we had a falling out with Elon, but it's time to keep focused on
the bill.
So right now, you're seeing an extraordinary amount of discipline from the White House as they continue to try and push this narrative that it is all
about the bill. But as you said, this is a huge seismic rift that we are seeing. And it's not just Trump and Elon Musk. It is the Republican Party.
It is the MAGA sphere. Overall, you're seeing fighting online, people taking sides.
So, how exactly this ends up playing out at the end? We really have no idea. And also, Donald Trump is one who sure, he can at times be
disciplined, but he's not known for that. So, is there something that Elon can say or do that's going to push him over the edge? But I can tell you
this I have spoken to a number of Trump's allies who have said over and over again, they really hope that this gets resolved. They don't want to be
in the middle of this anymore.
SOARES: And as you were talking, Kristen, we were seeing, of course, President Trump next to Elon Musk, next to that red Tesla, which I believe
is still parked outside the White House, Kevin, -- according to Kevin Liptak in the last hour.
And we all remember that moment where it was very much like a PR moment, and their bond was really one of the kind of the strongest alliances that
we have seen in U.S. history. And this acrimonious political breakup and all happening right in front of our very eyes, you know, catching many
people by surprise.
From those you're speaking to there, anyone thinking that there's any sense of -- there's a possibility of reconciliation right now because both sides
have so much to lose.
HOLMES: At this point. It doesn't seem that way. Now, obviously, in Trump's orbit and in Trump's world, you never say never, ever. Because we have seen
this time and time again where someone comes out against Donald Trump. It looks like it's never going to be fixed. And then the next thing you know,
they're serving in the second administration.
So we can't ever say -- we never say never when it comes to Donald Trump. However, right now, any sort of reconciliation in the next foreseeable
future does not seem likely. We know the two have not spoken, and we do know that there was a time when Donald Trump was wanting to talk to Elon
Musk about, particularly the tweets about the bill, but that was before everything became so escalated, so heated.
Yesterday, these personal attacks. At one point, Elon Musk agreeing that Trump should be impeached and J.D. Vance should take his place, agreeing
with the tweet that said, in a fight between Trump and Elon, Elon wins.
[15:05:05]
And then on top of that, of course, this tweet about Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. All of this very personal, very ugly. And we are told at
this point, Donald Trump has no interest in reaching out to Elon Musk or trying to fix this in any way.
SOARES: Kristen Holmes, appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
Well, many investors think Elon Musk's deep dive into politics was bad for business, but this breakup with President Trump could hurt the bottom line,
even worse. Musk was, until recently, often at the White House during an event honoring his former exit from government work. Just last week, Musk
said he would remain a friend, as well as an adviser to the Trump administration.
Here's what White House Trade Adviser Peter Navarro said today on the bill that led to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NAVARRO, WHITE HOUSE TRADE ADVISER: People come and go from the White House. He was a special government employee with an expiration date. With
respect to what Mr. Musk has been saying about the Big, Beautiful Bill and overspending and things like that, I think that that dog won't hunt when
you do the math properly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And let's get more from Lauren Fox, who's now at Capitol Hill. And, Lauren, I imagine you've been very busy today getting reaction, of course,
on this very public feud.
Give us a sense of what you are hearing from Republicans on this.
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a lot of Republicans who don't want to touch this feud with a ten-foot pole. Then
there are other Republicans who are making clear that perhaps this gives them some daylight to continue arguing that this big, beautiful bill, even
though it passed out of the House, does not include enough in spending cuts, and that this was their point all along.
You know, it's really interesting because Thomas Massie, one of the conservatives who voted against this piece of legislation, he said that
ultimately he doesn't think that this is going to have a massive impact. But he does believe that this really does get to the granular point that he
and other conservatives have been making.
Now, does this have a long-term effect? I think we don't know the answer to that, but here are a couple of conservatives on what this Musk Trump feud
means for the future of Trump's agenda on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I hope this gets worked out but I will tell you right now, that people are going to be focused on making sure that
we get the agenda that we voted for, and that's President Trump's agenda.
REP. CHIP ROY (R-TX): Elon is not wrong that we need to spend -- we need to cut more and find better ways to get to balance. And then you know, look,
and we're working with the president hard to do that. And so I'll let those guys tough it out.
REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I think Elon probably did change the trajectory of this bill two or three days ago when he came out against it, because
people trust the guy who can land rockets backwards more with the math than they do the politicians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: Now, I also had an opportunity to talk to Speaker Mike Johnson this morning. He told me that he hoped that Trump and Musk could resolve their
differences. He said that at the meeting yesterday, where he was with the president at the White House, that Trump was disappointed by this
relationship and the turn that it had taken.
Obviously, he said he was as well, but he said he believed in redemption. He hoped the two of them could find a consensus moving forward. We should
also note that Speaker Johnson had been trying to get on the phone with Musk over the last couple of days, he said. They did have a back and forth
over text, but as of this morning, they had not connected over the phone -- Isa.
SOARES: Indeed. Lauren Fox, appreciate it on Capitol Hill. Thank you, Lauren.
While Donald Trump's bromance with Elon Musk is in ruins, the U.S. president is working to mend Americas relationship with China. Just a short
time ago, Mr. Trump announced that U.S., as well as Chinese officials will meet in London on Monday to try and resolve ongoing trade tensions. Tesla
shares are rebounding after yesterday's huge selloff following the public breakup between Elon Musk and Donald Trump that we were just talking about.
We're less than an hour left for trading. Well, here's how things stand. Much better picture than what we saw roughly at this time yesterday. Tesla
shares up almost 6 percent. You remember yesterday, it dropped 15 percent. It has been a rollercoaster of a year for Tesla's share price after Elon
Musk aligned himself with Donald Trump. That's a Tesla share price, and the rollercoaster that we've seen in the last year.
The once hot U.S. jobs market, meanwhile, is starting to cool off. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics shows the U.S. added 139,000 jobs in May,
slightly more than expected, but a bit of a slowdown from April. The unemployment rate held steady at 4.2 percent.
Let's get more from our Matt Egan.
And, Matt, we'll talk about Elon Musk and shares in just a moment. But first, let's focus on this jobs report. What does this tell you about the
state primarily of the of the U.S. economy and the health of the U.S. economy?
MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Isa, it says that the jobs market is cooling off but it's not collapsing, which is a big relief given all of the
confusion around the trade war and all those recession fears earlier this year.
[15:10:11]
Let me run you through some of the key numbers here. As you mentioned, the economy added 139,000 jobs last month. That was a little bit better than
expected. It's also more than enough to keep the economy and the jobs market in a stable place.
Also, the unemployment rate, 4.2 percent, that is a low number, and it's the third month in a row that the unemployment rate is at 4.2. When you
look at the pace of job growth over the past year, I think two things stand out here. Here we are right now, and I think it's obvious that this is
slower growth than last year. It's actually even slower than we realized because both March and April were revised significantly lower today.
It's also striking to me, though, that this is relatively stable growth, despite all of the instability out of Washington. And when we look at where
the jobs are, leisure and hospitality, adding almost 50,000 jobs last month alone, that is a good sign. Especially because if Americans were really
feeling a lot of financial pressure right now, you would expect that that's where they would start cutting back first, right? Bars and restaurants.
It's not happening. Health care also adding 62,000 jobs.
Now, one concern I did hear from economists today is that the job growth has sort of narrowed, right. It's really focused, especially last month, on
these two sectors, which accounted for about 80 percent of all job gains last month. And in a healthy jobs market, you do want to see the job growth
broaden out beyond that.
Now, also, we should note that there are some sectors that lost jobs, including manufacturing. Lost 8,000 jobs last month. That's the exact
opposite of what the White House wants with those sky high tariffs. Also, the federal government losing 22,000 jobs last month.
This is a trend that economists tell me we're going to see more and more of in the coming months. Big picture though, I do think the markets are pretty
happy with this. You see strong gains across the board, 1 percent for the Dow, the S&P and the Nasdaq.
I think the bottom line here is if the trade war is doing real damage to this economy, its not showing up in a big way in the jobs' reports, at
least not yet -- Isa.
SOARES: Matt Egan, appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
And coming up, an extraordinary admission by Israel's prime minister. Why Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel is arming militias in Gaza. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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SOARES: The Israeli military has issued a new evacuation order for parts of Gaza City. They call it a final and urgent warning ahead of an impending
strike. And the warning comes as people in Gaza marking the start of a religious holiday, Eid Al-Adha, in the rubble of mosques amid airstrikes,
as well as widespread food shortages. Limited aid distribution in Gaza was halted yet again today. A U.S.-Israeli-backed foundation running the
operation said overcrowding made it unsafe.
For some families, spending the holiday with loved ones meant going to the graveyard. Listen to one mother who lost her son in the war. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UMM AHMAD AWIDA, PALESTINIAN WHO LOST SON IN THE WAR (through translator): We are still in a war and siege. We are celebrating Eid Al-Adha for the
second year in a row, under bombs, strikes, death, siege and hunger -- every way of torture for human beings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Israel says it's acting in various ways to defeat Hamas as their words. And today we learn that includes arming local militias in Gaza. One
Israeli opposition leader calls it complete madness, saying those receiving the weapons are the equivalent of ISIS.
Our Jeremy Diamond has more for you from Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, for the first time during the war in Gaza, Israeli officials are confirming that the Israeli
government has been arming local Palestinian militias in the Gaza strip in what's being described as an effort to counter Hamas. The Israeli prime
minister himself saying that this is a good thing, that these are clans which oppose Hamas and that all of this was being done under the advice of
security elements.
But this is creating an enormous uproar among figures in the Israeli opposition, including figures on both the left and the right side of the
spectrum. The former Israeli defense minister, Avigdor Lieberman, saying that this is complete madness. He actually was the first to reveal that
this was happening this past Wednesday.
We are also hearing from Yair Lapid, the leader of the opposition, saying that all of this will lead to more disasters. And Yair Golan, another
prominent left wing opposition member who says that this is creating a, quote, new ticking time bomb in the Gaza Strip.
Now, the main argument from these opposition figures is that no one can guarantee that these weapons won't ultimately be pointed towards Israeli
soldiers in Gaza or towards Israel in the long run. Two Israeli officials also telling us that this operation was authorized by the Israeli prime
minister without the approval of Israel's security cabinet.
Hamas is also weighing in, saying that Israel is aiming to create a, quote, state of insecurity and social chaos by sending these weapons in. We also
understand that one of the groups that's being armed is led by the man named Yasser Abu Shabab, who leads a local militia in the eastern part of
Rafah, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. He has been accused in the past of looting and reselling trucks of humanitarian aid, quite a notorious
figure inside of Gaza.
And so ultimately, the question is, how does this fit into the long-term plan? Because the Israeli prime minister has also been criticized for not
having a long-term plan for the end of the war in Gaza for the day after the war, and not enabling a sufficient alternative governing structure in
Gaza to Hamas's leadership.
It's not clear that this fits into that long term plan, or whether it could be something aimed more at opposing Hamas at the moment and perhaps
creating that increased instability and challenges to Hamas's leadership.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Israel says its prepared for a wide range of scenarios to respond to an aid flotilla heading right now for Gaza. The ship is carrying
humanitarian supplies and will attempt to break Israel's naval blockade of Gaza to highlight the suffering there.
Organizer Yasemin Acar and activist Greta Thunberg spoke to CNN from the boat today. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETA THUNBERG, ACTIVIST: We know that it's a very risky mission, and we know that previous experiences with the with flotillas like this has
resulted in attacks, interceptions, violence and even cases of death.
[15:20:03]
But of course, none of those risks are even remotely as high as to the risk that Palestinians are facing every day just by trying to survive. And right
now, as you said, the mission is to get to Gaza to be able to deliver and distribute the humanitarian aid that we're carrying. But we are well aware
of the risks of going there, but we are aiming for that.
Our leaders are not doing what they're supposed to do, so that we take on that -- we take on this task as activists, to do exactly what our leaders
are supposed to do, stop the starvation, lift the illegal blockade on Gaza, which is over a decade.
SOARES: Well, in the last hour, I spoke to global UNICEF spokesperson James Elder. We discussed the latest staggering statistics coming from the aid
agency. Fifty thousand children have died or have been injured since the war began. That is according to UNICEF.
He spoke to me from Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES ELDER, GLOBAL SPOKESPERSON, UNICEF: Every time I come, it is worse than the time before, Isa, which, of course, makes sense because the
bombardment continues. We've seen these long, long blockades and they only end in terms of humanitarian aid when we get warnings that were very close
to famine and they're just loosened a little bit, but it's not enough to remove the deprivation by any sense. And right now, of course, we are again
in a heavy, heavy restriction.
So I'm seeing a couple of things that across the Gaza strip that hadn't seen hand to mouth, a lot of children, people show me that universal symbol
of they're just very hungry. I've seen children with severe malnourishment in hospitals who will not be alive next week. They just don't have the care
or the food that they possibly need.
And I think the thing that I'm noticing in hospitals is that sheer lack of medicine, the sheer lack of painkiller. I've seen more than 100 children
with amputations and with ghastly, ghastly trauma wounds from bomb blasts and missiles and airstrikes.
Yesterday in the hospital, I heard those children's -- the screams, these blood curdling screams from children because they don't have painkillers. I
mean, the little girl who's had a double amputation, Isa, at her hip. This little girl without painkillers. This is a constant now.
So, a child survives a bombardment, is not allowed to leave, and the medicines are not allowed to come in. This is -- I saw this in a day or
two. This is 600 days of which these children are enduring this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: James Elder there speaking to me earlier.
Well, just days after a daring raid by Kyiv targeting Russia's strategic bombers, Moscow unleashed a massive aerial attack on Ukraine, one of the
largest since the war began. Have a look.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
SOARES: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says more than 400 drones and 38 missiles were used in the strikes. Absolutely terrifying. Kyiv's
mayor said at least four people were killed and 20 injured after the city was hit.
Our Frederik Pleitgen has the very latest for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Massive explosions rocked the Kyiv skyline overnight, shaking the Ukrainian
capital as the country endured another night of intense Russian bombardment. Several emergency workers were killed in the capital and
dozens of civilians were injured across the country. In Lutsk, northwest Ukraine, as the sun rose, the missiles fell.
Athlete Sophia Romasyuk, a Ukrainian shot putter, captured the moment of impact. She and fellow athletes from the Ukrainian national team were
visiting the city for a competition when their hotel was hit by a blast.
The country has been bracing for Russian retaliation after an audacious strike by the Ukrainian military on airfields deep inside Russia, as
residents in Kyiv picked through the remains of their apartments this morning, many feeling lucky to have survived.
ARTEM, APARTMENT DAMAGED IN RUSSIAN STRIKE: Usually we stay in the corridor during the attacks and this time my wife also insisted that we sleep in the
corridor, so she saved my life.
PLEITGEN: It wasn't clear if this was Putin's much anticipated response or just business as usual in Russia's aerial campaign. Russia's defense
ministry said it had struck targets in Ukraine in response to what it called Kyiv's, quote, terrorists act.
Ukrainian President Zelenskyy calling on America and Europe to put more pressure on Russia to end the war, saying anyone, quote, giving the war
more time to take lives. That is complicity and accountability.
This after President Trump on Thursday compared Russia and Ukraine to children fighting, and said it may be better to let them continue for a
while.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Maybe you're going to have to keep fighting and suffering a lot because both sides are suffering before
you pull them apart, before they're able to be pulled apart.
PLEITGEN: Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:02]
SOARES: And still to come tonight, how is the MAGA world responding to the Trump Musk feud? Details ahead on what Steve Bannon is saying about the
U.S. president's former adviser. That is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: Welcome back, everyone.
Returning now to our top story. President Donald Trump's supporters are catching their breath after Thursday's social media storm. This time last
week, Elon Musk was still a staunch supporter of the U.S. president. You remember that moment? And the near constant figure in the White House. But
after their intense public feud, Mr. Trump has floated the idea of cutting the tech billionaire's government contracts.
Meantime, President Trump's former White House chief strategist is offering a bigger threat. Have a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: Thirteen men in one because Elon Musk is illegal and he's got to go, too, okay? You're going to
ship these other people home. Let's start with -- let's start with the South Africans, okay? And I got a couple other could go to. But he's
illegal, deport immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Steve Bannon there.
So, what we want to know is how is the MAGA world responding to the Trump- Musk feud.
Joining me now is Hadas Gold.
So how are they responding? What are you hearing, Hadas? We've had one little clip there.
[15:30:02]
But are you hearing from any other voices on this?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yeah. I mean, all of MAGA world is definitely experiencing the ripples of the shockwaves of what happened
yesterday. Similar to everybody who was watching this implode in real time. And what we have found is that they have sort of fallen into three camps, I
would say. The first camp is those who have rushed to President Trump's defense and have immediately turned on Elon Musk's.
You heard Steve Bannon there. He is always not exactly been a huge Musk fan. So obviously he was going to use this opportunity to turn on him as
well.
But I want to put up a post on X from a very influential account called yes, the name is catturd, but this person does have more than 3.7 million
followers and is well known to be in the MAGA world. He says pay close attention to all the people who don't have President Trump's back right
now. And actually, Elon Musk unfollowed him, unsubscribed to this account, which catturd sort of advertised, saying, you know, this is how much I am
loyal to President Trump.
Then there is the camp that are more of the like, please, can you, both of you, just please stop fighting and make up? This is not good for this
movement.
Those are people like Charlie Kirk who runs Turning Point USA, and he says that he hopes Elon and Trump reconcile and will do so privately, saying
that it will be good for the country and the world. Then there's this other camp.
This is more of what I would call the Silicon Valley tech entrepreneur newly MAGA types, and they are the ones who are falling into the Elon is
right camp.
I'll put up a post from Jason Calacanis. He is an angel investor. He is part of the very popular podcast called "All In". And he says the majority
of Republican voters strongly agree with Elon and want the Big, Beautiful Bill trimmed down. He talks about how Musk left the Democratic Party,
sacrificed so much, and advises the GOP leadership should give his counsel serious consideration.
Now things have been a bit more quiet today on X compared to yesterday, of course, but Elon Musk is actually still posting about this, albeit a little
bit less. When one user posted about how Elon Musk was more focused on Congress and not focused on Trump, and then Trump attacked Elon. Elon posts
back "exactly". And he even kind of joked around when a Russian official talked about how they could broker potentially a ceasefire between the two
of them. And Elon Musk responded with a laughing, crying emoji.
So, he still seems to be engaged in this feud, but not nearly to the level that we saw yesterday.
SOARES: The battle lines have indeed been drawn.
Hadas, good to see you. Thanks very much.
Well, my next guest is a professor at Brown University and co-host of the new podcast, the oath and the office. Corey Brettschneider joins me now
from New York.
Corey, great to have you back on the show. Do we have Corey with us? I'm hoping we have Corey.
Oh, fantastic. Great to see you. Corey. I hope you have the popcorn because this is the moment I felt like the last 24 hours we needed that.
Look, I'm not surprised at all that we are here. We warned we spoke about this right at the beginning. These two big egos, you know, just speak to
the way that this that were seeing this play out very public, very much nuclear. Are you surprised? Just give me your first reaction.
COREY BRETTSCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BROWN UNIVERSITY: Well, I think everybody had it on their bingo cards that it would happen
eventually. The fact that it happened this soon after him stepping down from DOGE, and also that it's this fiery. I mean, Musk retweeted a tweet
calling for Trump's impeachment that it isn't just a falling out, it's an all-out battle. And you know that he really seems to want to leave the
Republican Party talking about, for instance, an independent party emerging.
So, I think it is somewhat shocking, even though that we knew it was all coming. And I would say, too, it reveals, unfortunately, two pathologies of
American politics.
One is the danger of the U.S. presidency. Weve created a presidency through the immunity case through the erosion of checks on power that is just so
dangerous. And when you have a wannabe dictator like Trump, it really opened the door to that.
And then the other thing is, money and politics. Musk's power, of course, comes from being the wealthiest person in the world and existing in an
ecosystem in which money really does buy power. And so, we're seeing both those pathologies of American politics play out and battling one another.
SOARES: And as we speak, as you know, you picked on the pathology. Let's stick to that, in particular, we have the world's richest man with the
world's most powerful man. And on the richest man's side, we have seen the impact this has had just the few in the last 24 hours on Tesla share price.
Okay, it's up 6 percent today, but it's been quite a roller coaster, pardon me. Yesterday, it was down something like 15 percent, Corey.
Why would Musk then go after Trump? What does he have to gain here? Because, look, he has plenty to lose. If it's about money, you know,
contracts being cut. Why would he go there?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, you know, political scientists in my field often talk about structures and about trends. But when it comes down to it, so much of
politics is really about personality. And you have two of the world's biggest egos here going up against one another. And it often doesn't make
sense. Of course, there's a lot of speculation that Musk drug use is connected to his erratic behavior.
That might be part of it, but we also saw him do things that are not just irrational, but really antithetical to the basic norms of constitutional
democracy. And chief among them would be his Nazi salute. That was a shock to the system.
And of course, there are a lot of Republicans who are now admitting all of a sudden that, of course, it was a Nazi salute, which it was. So, this
isn't a -- you know, politics is not a rational thing at this moment. We have, as I said, these pathologies, these irrationalities taking hold. And
Musk has his series of them, and so does Trump. And they're playing out on the world stage.
SOARES: It doesn't look like were any closer to any sort of reconciliation, at least not right now. But if were looking at retribution from Trump's
side, what do you think that would look like?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, you know, Musk has egged him on in his most authoritarian impulses. And I think if I were to pick one thing that really
defines want to be authoritarian regime or want to be dictatorship, it's the threats, at least to prosecute your political opponents.
Now, there has been concern that Musk, in the election, for instance, did things that were illegal. For instance, his quasi-lotteries, in some of
those moments those kinds of behaviors might open them up to the possible prosecution. And when you combine that with the motivation of somebody who
constantly threatens to prosecute his enemies, he might face legal jeopardy. That's the reality of where we are.
SOARES: Do you think at all that Musk's attack against Trump, Corey, do you think that this will incentivize potentially others to push back against
Trump? Will it give people courage? Would it embolden them?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, you know, his attacks have been, about as devastating as they can be. For instance, he -- we have no evidence to know if this is
true or not, but he's claiming the reason why the Epstein files, of course, weren't released. Is that because they implicate Trump? That really, you
know, a lot of QAnon is worried about sexual abuse within the corridors of power. And that accusation might start to really cause a rift.
Let's not forget either, that in the modern media landscape around the world and certainly in the United States what was formerly Twitter, now X,
plays a huge role. And that company and that messaging is in the control of Musk, not Trump. So, the threat of a tear in the MAGA base is certainly
possible.
And into that void, Democrats likely will step up and start to take advantage of that. When you have the president's closest adviser, somebody
who is really a kind of vice president or even a shadow president calling for the presidents impeachment, that that cant but alter American politics
for the foreseeable future.
SOARES: Indeed. Corey, as always, great to have you on the show and fantastic analysis, as always. Thank you. Corey.
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Thank you.
SOARES: We're going to take a short break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:41:34]
SOARES: Breaking news to bring you this very hour, we are learning that Kilmar Abrego Garcia is on his way back from a prison in El Salvador. This
is the man that we are talking about. You're looking at pictures of him from your screen. A law enforcement source says he's en route to face
criminal charges in the United States.
Now, just a bit of context here. If you may recall, Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported from the U.S. to a notorious prison in the Central
American country. His case has been at the very center of a pitched battle between the judicial as well as the executive branches, with even the
Supreme Court saying a few months ago, the White House must and they use the word facilitate, facilitate Abrego Garcia's return to us with the Trump
administration repeatedly saying it did not have the power to do so.
So, we'll have more on that in just a moment. We are waiting. Let me bring that shot up as my producer, Sean, to bring it up for a press conference.
As you can see there from the justice department, the podium is set. It's starting to fill up once that gets underway, we will get bring that to you.
We have a lot of questions that we have to ask at this very moment.
And whilst we wait for that, I want to go to Corey Brettschneider. I was speaking to him earlier as a professor at Brown University and co-host the
new podcast, the oath and the office. Corey, great to have you back again. I'm surprised by this because you know, this administration has repeatedly
tried to go against the judicial here. The Supreme Court, as we said, was ordered them to facilitate the return. But we've seen -- we've seen months
of defiance right, in court orders. What do you make of this?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, it's quite a news story. The big news here, which we should never lose sight of, is that to go back to the basics, the Trump
administration was ordered to. To turn planes back that were headed to El Salvador to what really is a gulag in El Salvador, removing people from the
United States. And the argument of the judge was, there's a basic right to due process. We have to figure out who these people are, whether or not
they are, you're within your rights of removing them.
And in the Garcia case, in fact, there had been an order to not remove him. On "The Oath and the Office" podcast, I had the ACLU policy director
explain to us in depth that there was really a question about whether those on the plane were citizens or non-citizens. The Trump administration was
claiming they're not citizens. But how would we know that without appearing before a judge? And, of course, what the Trump administration went on to do
was to ignore that order. They allowed those planes to continue on to El Salvador.
And then when they were ordered to return, Mr. Garcia, they basically continued to refuse to do so. Now, I think they've come a little bit to
their senses and realize they are openly defying courts of law, and that is whether they meant to or not. What happens in a self-coup when the
president tries to usurp the other branches, including the judiciary?
SOARES: I mean, the timing of this is interesting too, but just, you know, for our viewers, just take a step back here because we all remember how
this played out and how the administration repeatedly pushed against all really the orders from the judicial just bring us remind us of that, first
of all.
[15:45:03]
BRETTSCHNEIDER: What is incredible about this case is that the ACLU and again, we had the policy director on "The Oath and the Office" podcast
explained this in depth when to court. And they said, look, you are removing people from the United States. And these, by the way, are
Venezuelans who are being brought to a prison in a separate country in El Salvador, and one of the people being removed was this gentleman Garcia,
who I believe was a barber.
And there had been an order to not send him to El Salvador. And yet the administration was not only not complying with basic rules of due process,
but they were sending him somewhere in defiance of another court order. Now, that judge was so upset, I would say, with the Trump administration
that he proceeded to look into and begin contempt proceedings, possibly finding in criminal contempt some members of the administration and wanting
to know exactly who had defied him.
Now, this went all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court said, you know, facilitate the return of this person. And the
administration tried to play around with the words of the Supreme Court to essentially refuse to do anything. Now you know it -- I think at some point
the line had been drawn that if you're defying the courts in that way, in what way are you subject to the rule of law at all?
You're undoing democracy. And they have here, for whatever reason, we don't know, begun to pull back from that what cliff of insanity and destruction
of democracy.
SOARES: Yeah. Back for due process. And as you're speaking, I'm getting more details here in terms of the charges, Abrego Garcia has been indicted
on two criminal counts being told in the middle district of Tennessee, and those are conspiracy to unlawfully transport illegal aliens for financial
gain and unlawful transportation of illegal aliens from financial, quote, for financial gain I see.
Does that -- does I mean, do we know this prior to this moment?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: No. They had been making a lot of allegations that he was up to no good, that he was possibly in a crime, but they were so vague
about it. And I should say, even if this turns out to be right, that he's indicted and convicted of a crime, it doesn't excuse the fact that they
were refusing in the first instance to do what you need to do when a crime is committed in the United States and in any constitutional democracy. And
that's respect, habeas corpus, respect the right to due process and to have a legal way of showing guilt or innocence and to allow people to defend
themselves in court.
They were trying to bypass all of that and just put people on a plane to a foreign country and again, a prison, a gulag known for its violation of
human rights in El Salvador.
So, you know what? I think politically, what they'll try to do is say, oh, look, we were right. We told you all along, this is somebody who's a
criminal. And the response to that has to be, it doesn't matter what due process shows, in the end, what you were denying in the first place is the
right to appear in court.
And is this the end of their attempted self-coup? I don't think so. But here, they think they're going to win some points politically by using the
legal process and making it look like they are respecting due process.
SOARES: Right. So -- but I mean, politically, how do you read it though? Is this administration then they may spin it. But is this the administration
blinking, having no other choice, their arms being twisted here?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, in this specific case, you know, when a judge is really looking into prosecuting people and to look into the inner
functioning of the administrative branch, the Department of Justice, and let me just say, my speculation is its not functioning. It's actually
deeply dysfunctional. He was going to start to dive into this district court judge into the details of what happened and specifically who had
defied him.
Where did it come from? If it came from Pam Bondi, the attorney general, she might have faced criminal contempt charges. The president of the United
States might have immunity, but she does not. And so, they were opening themselves to all sorts of criminal liability.
So, I wouldn't say it's some sort of principle that they found the wonderfulness of due process, all of a sudden. There are a lot of pragmatic
reasons for them to have backed off, at least in this instance.
SOARES: And, Corey, as you're talking, let me just bring viewers, show viewers the podium that we are waiting for. As you can see there, the
Justice Department is expected to give a press briefing. We're supposed to hear from the attorney general as we wait for that. Corey, what questions
do you have at this moment that, you know, these statements that we just brought up to you, the charges that haven't quite answered?
BRETTSCHNEIDER: Well, you know, as listeners and viewers know, it doesn't excuse the fact that you broke the law. If eventually you try to make good
on respecting due process. So, I think we really need to know, no matter what happens in this case, who gave the order to refuse to listen to a
clear judicial order to turn those planes back?
[15:50:06]
Now, the administration tried to argue at some point that that was an oral order, that it wasn't written. But there's nothing in in the in the ideas
of law, in the law itself that says there's a difference. If the judge gives you an order, the rule of law requires complying with it. And this
administration refused to do so.
So how high up did it go? Was it a low-level staffer? Was it a mid-level attorney? Was it the attorney general? And then ultimately, was it the
president of the United States? That's a scandal on the level of Watergate. If the president of the United States ordered them to pursue this course of
action, removing these Venezuelans to this gulag in, in El Salvador in defiance of the rule of law, that would be as much as Musk is calling for
an impeachable offense.
And frankly, there are several. This would be a top candidate.
SOARES: Corey, I appreciate you staying, coming on and staying with us for this breaking news. We are going to take a short break. We'll be back with
much more on this breaking news story. Do stay right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: And recapping our breaking news, we brought you just in the last five ten minutes or so. We are learning that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man
you're looking at your screen is on his way back from a prison in El Salvador, a law enforcement source says he's en route to face criminal
charges in the United States. He has been indicted on two criminal counts related to unlawfully transporting illegal aliens for financial gain.
As you may recall, Abrego Garcia was mistakenly deported from the U.S. to a notorious prison in the central American country, and his case has been
really at the center of a pitched battle between the judicial as well as the executive branches, with even the Supreme Court just saying a few
months ago that the White House must their words facilitate Abrego Garcia return to the U.S. with the Trump administration repeatedly saying they did
not have the power to do so, the Trump administration even saying that Abrego Garcia is never coming back to the United States at one point.
Let's go to our Kristen Holmes at the White House. Kristen, just give us the very latest. Why now? This caught many people by surprise. We are
waiting, of course, to hear from the justice department, attorney general, the justice department. We see the podium. Just bring us up to date with
what you're learning at this moment.
HOLMES: Right. And of course, this is what they are going to be talking about. This is what they're going to be announcing when they step up there.
And I will tell you that we have not had any reaction directly from the White House. They are letting the Department of Justice handle this.
But as you said, this case really became a flashpoint for Donald Trump's entire immigration agenda, for the justification of these mass
deportations.
And just a little bit of a reminder here he was arrested in Maryland, driving home and swept up in these kind of mass deportations. Now, it
wasn't necessarily the fact that he was mistakenly deported. The problem was that he was mistakenly deported to El Salvador, where he is also a
Salvadoran citizen, that the reason why that is a mistake is because there was a 2019 court order that said he was not allowed to be deported there
because of the fact that they believed his life would be in danger there.
So, now, there has been this scramble within the courts and within the administration to try to figure out how to help facilitate him coming back,
but also painting him as a criminal. Now, of course, you're going to hear the administration really doubling down on that rhetoric that he's a
criminal.
SOARES: Yeah. Thank you very much indeed. We are waiting, of course, for the attorney general of the Justice Department. As soon as that gets in the
way, we'll bring it to you.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" with Paula Newton's up next. We'll have much more on this breaking news story. Have a wonderful weekend. Bye-bye.
END
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