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What We Know with Max Foster
White House: Netanyahu Tells Trump That Deadly Strike On Gaza's Only Catholic Church Was A "Mistake"; Syria Withdraws Troops From South After Days Of Deadly Clashes; No Update From White House On American Killed In West Bank; Senate Passes Trump's DOGE Cuts Package, Sends It To House; Brazil's Lula Da Silva: Trump Is Not "Emperor Of The World". Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 17, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:22]
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Donald Trump voices his displeasure after Israeli forces strike a Catholic Church in Gaza.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
The White House says President Trump has called Israel's prime minister about a deadly strike on that only Catholic Church in Gaza today. It says
Benjamin Netanyahu told him that the attack was a mistake.
Church leaders in Jerusalem call it a blatant violation of the sanctity of religious sites. They say the church was sheltering around 600 people at
the time, most of them children. Three people were killed. One witness described the attack from a Gaza hospital room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are displaced and currently taking shelter in the Latin church in the old city. This morning, we were
surprised by a strike on the church. A tank shell. Of course, there were elderly here, innocent civilians. My mother was wounded by shrapnel in her
head. This attack is completely unjustified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, earlier this week, church leaders visited a Christian town in the West Bank that's come under attack by settlers. They accused Israeli
authorities of not responding to emergency calls and demanded to know why the settlers', quote, abhorrent actions continue to go unpunished.
A few minutes ago, the White House press secretary was asked about President Trump's response to the attack on the church.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It was not a positive reaction. He called Prime Minister Netanyahu this morning to address the
strikes on that church in Gaza. And I understand the prime minister agreed to put out a statement. It was -- it was a mistake by the Israelis to hit
that Catholic Church. That's what the prime minister relayed to the president. And you should look at the prime minister's statement that will
be coming out.
Steve, go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Betsy Klein standing by for us.
We're waiting for that statement, aren't we, from Jerusalem? But clearly, the president, President Trump running out of patience on this one.
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's exactly right. And follows a bit of a pattern between President Trump and Prime Minister
Netanyahu. But according to the White House, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu did concede that an Israeli strike on the Holy Family Catholic
Church in Gaza was a mistake. That strike killed three people, injured several more. And this is Gaza's only Catholic Church. As you mentioned, it
is the church that the late Pope Francis would regularly call since the start of the Israel-Hamas war. So clearly a place of such significance.
But White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt there asked about the presidents reaction to this strike that happened early Thursday morning.
She said President Trump's reaction was, quote, not a positive one and that he spoke with Netanyahu and conveyed his concern. Netanyahu, in turn,
agreed to issue a statement that it was a mistake.
We have yet to see that statement. As you mentioned, Max, it is something we are closely watching for.
But all of this comes after Trump hosted Netanyahu here in Washington just a couple of days ago, where the president really pressured Netanyahu to
accept some sort of ceasefire and hostage deal with Hamas to end this very violent fighting and so much devastation in Gaza. Negotiations between
Israel and Hamas that are taking place in Qatar, excuse me, remain ongoing at this stage. They have yet to really bear significant fruit, though
President Trump continues to express optimism about the possibility of a deal there.
Pope Leo also issuing a statement after the strikes saying he was, quote, deeply saddened by the situation and again reiterating his calls for
ceasefire, Max.
FOSTER: Betsy, just as you were speaking, we actually got the statement from the prime minister's office on X. If I just read it to you and see
whether you think it will live up to what president Trump wanted. It says, "Israel deeply regrets that a stray ammunition hit Gaza's Holy Family
Church. Every innocent life lost is a tragedy. We share the grief of the families and the faithful," clearly suggesting there that it was a mistake.
It wasn't a target.
KLEIN: Surely, and I think that was probably what the White House was expecting from a statement like that. Clearly, such a tragedy and so many
innocent civilians were targeted there, as you sort of laid out, some of the people who were taking shelter in this church.
But I think the White House was looking for an admission that this was a mistake. And they got that.
FOSTER: Okay, Betsy, thank you so much for bringing us that.
Meanwhile, the Syrian government says it's now withdrawing troops from Suwayda. The southern city had been had seen days of deadly clashes between
government loyalists and the Druze and Arab religious group living in Israel, Syria and other areas in the region.
[15:05:10]
That led to yesterday's deadly Israeli airstrikes in Damascus, and intervention from the Trump administration. Syria's president says his
country is not afraid of war, but is putting its people above chaos and destruction. It's unclear how long the ceasefire with the Druze will last.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warning he will continue to act as necessary.
With more now, here's CNN's Jeremy Diamond.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, a ceasefire has taken effect in Syria, as the Israeli military has stopped bombarding the Syrian
capital. And we've also seen Syrian military forces withdrawing from the southern city of Suwayda. That city of Suwayda, which is a stronghold of
this Druze minority that lives in Syria, Israel and Lebanon, was the source of violence in recent days as clashes broke out between the Druze minority
and Bedouin tribes in the area, with Syrian government forces also getting involved.
The United States then intervened to try and broker this ceasefire, and seems to be at least partly responsible for it taking hold. The Syrian
president, for his part, said that his government is not afraid of war, but that it is putting Syria's people, quote, above chaos and destruction. He
accused Israel of trying to destabilize Syria and sow division, and he vowed that his government will protect the rights of the Druze.
Now, the Israeli prime minister, for his part, took credit for the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Suwayda, which came just hours really
after the Israeli military began striking the Syrian capital of Damascus, including hitting the Syrian defense ministry itself in central Damascus.
The prime minister saying that this ceasefire was achieved through Israel's intensified military operations, touting Israel's strength, which he said
was aimed in two parts first of all, at Israel's own domestic security interests, meaning protecting Israeli national security by preventing
Syrian troops from being in that area of southern Syria, and secondly, aimed at protecting that Druze minority in Suwayda.
This is a very tenuous cease fire. However, we've already seen previous ceasefires break down very quickly, and already we are seeing reports of
attacks on Bedouins in Suwayda, as well as reports of Bedouins being forced to flee the city. A very, very tenuous situation.
And of course, in the background of all of this are these nascent talks between Israel and Syria aimed at establishing some kind of a security
arrangement. The United States that seems to have been their primary objective here in brokering the ceasefire, to try and get those talks back
on track.
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Okay, Jeremy. Thank you.
The White House has given no update today on the young American man killed in the West Bank. Yesterday, President Donald Trump said he would be
receiving more information about Saif Musallet on Thursday. The U.S. has asked Israel to aggressively investigate his death. Musallet's father says
Israeli forces blocked ambulances from reaching his son for hours after he was beaten to death by Israeli settlers. The family wants the U.S. to
investigate instead.
CNN's Kylie Atwood is at the State Department.
And the president clearly trying to put as much pressure as possible on the Israelis here, Kylie.
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right. We heard from the U.S. ambassador in Israel yesterday saying that the U.S. is
encouraging Israel to do an investigation here, calling this a terrorist attack on this American Palestinian. But the State Department not saying
that they themselves that the Trump administration is going to be embarking on their own investigation into what happened in this terrible incident
with this 20-year-old killed in the West Bank by the -- by these Israeli settlers.
That is not altogether surprising that the U.S. has not committed to their own investigation. We had seen the deaths of Americans in the past in in
the region, and the U.S. State Department didn't do their own investigations, relied on the Israeli investigation that was to be carried
out. But there are questions as to whether the U.S. would provide any support for that investigation if it were needed by the Israelis, and if
there's any time frame that the Trump administration is pressuring the Israelis in terms of how quickly they could carry out this investigation to
figure out exactly how this went down.
We should note, however, that the U.S. ambassador to Israel has not in the past, been critical of these Israeli settlers and those Palestinians who
are living in the West Bank say that this incident obviously is awful, but it is something that they face routinely in their daily lives.
[15:10:05]
FOSTER: Kylie Atwood, thank you for that update.
Over the next 24 hours, all eyes on U.S. House Republicans. Donald Trump's controversial DOGE bill must be passed by Friday in order to bypass
Democratic support. The Senate has already passed the bill, which looks to take away roughly $8 billion from the congressionally approved foreign aid
programs and more than $1 billion from the corporation that helps fund NPR and PBS.
As we wait for the House to vote on the DOGE bill, several public television stations in the U.S. face an uncertain future. Last month, the
head of NPR told me that public broadcasting plays a crucial role in American life.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERINE MAHER, CEO, NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO: Our local network, I think, is it's such an under-realized part of what it is that we do. And it's very
different from other public media broadcasters, which is why it's sometimes confusing for people to understand. We at NPR are a producer of news. We've
got a newsroom, news gathering, culture, information.
Our local stations are on the ground, and they are doing local newsgathering. They're producing shows that are relevant to their local
communities. The loss of federal funding will hit them first and foremost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, Manu Raju is tracking this story for us as well from Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Max, this is actually a fraction of what the what DOGE and Elon Musk had wanted to cut when they
came in to power here. They had called for about roughly more than $1 trillion in spending cuts. This plan is about $9 billion, just a fraction
of that larger amount of money.
But it does hit a number of programs, foreign aid, in particular, is going to take a big hit. A number of foreign aid programs have already seen the
winding down of the USAID agency, but now, we're seeing some specific programs that Congress is going to approve of in pulling back that funding,
not just the money, the billions of dollars in foreign aid, but also more than a billion, more than $1 billion to the Corporation for Public
Broadcasting that helps fund rural tv stations or TV stations and radio networks all across the country that are funded in part by this money.
But we are hearing concerns from a lot of members who represent rural communities in particular, that some of those stations that they represent,
their constituents rely on could be forced to go off the air because they are losing this pipeline of federal dollars. Republicans have been aiming
trying to take aim at both PBS and National Public Radio for years and years and years, but now Donald Trump seems to be have succeeded in that
endeavor.
Now we after it was approved by the Senate on a very narrow margin, a 51-48 vote that occurred overnight in the wee hours of this morning, with two
Republicans voting against it, two more moderate Republican senators, Senators Lisa Murkowski and Senator Susan Collins, is now being sent over
to the United States House. We do expect the house to vote as soon as tonight to approve this package. It is a narrow House Republican majority,
so it's always a question of what will happen if a couple of members get weak kneed, or if there's an absence or two in the House that could change
their schedule.
But at the moment, they're expecting to try to push this through and give Donald Trump a victory here to claw back these federal dollars. Even though
there are a lot of concerns, particularly among Democrats, but also some Republicans, about the implications not just for foreign aid, but also for
public broadcasting -- Max.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Manu Raju there.
Brazil's president taking on Donald Trump. In an exclusive interview with CNN, Luis Inacio Lula Da Silva says the U.S. president needs to recognize
he's not the emperor of the world. Mr. Lula Da Silva frustrated at President Trump's threat to slap a steep 50 percent tariff on Brazilian
imports as the punishment for Brazil's prosecution of ex-President Jair Bolsonaro, a long Trump ally.
Mr. Lula Da Silva's comments came during an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. Here's a bit more of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: What does it feel like to be slapped with a 50 percent tariff by the United States, the world's
biggest economy?
LUIZ INACIO LULA DA SILVA, BRAZILIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Well, Christiane, for me, it was a surprise. Not only the value of that tariff,
but also how it was announced, the way it was announced. We cannot have, as a President Trump, forgetting that he was elected to govern the U.S. He was
elected not to be the emperor of the world. It would be much better to establish a negotiation first and then to reach the possible agreement,
because we're two countries that we had very good meetings and we have good relations for 200 years. And so, he's breaking away from any protocol, any
liturgy that should exist between the relations between two heads of state.
It was very unpleasant. We're trying to talk with the people there, but we're also preparing ourselves to give an answer to that. What I've been
saying publicly is that we will use all the words that exist in the dictionary in trying to negotiate.
[15:15:05]
If even Trump, he received a Bolsonaro for a few minutes, even Trump didn't want to talk with Bolsonaro. And now President Trump to write a letter and
putting as a condition -- a precondition for negotiation. No. And that's very discretionary. I can't even believe in that.
When I read the letter, I thought it was fake news when I saw the letter through the media. And then I thought it was a true letter that was signed
by President Trump. So I can reassure you that Brazil in the right moment will give the right answer to the President Trump's letter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: The Brazilian president speaking to Christiane there.
President Trump has undergone a comprehensive medical exam meanwhile, after experiencing mild swelling in his lower legs, the White House says Mr.
Trump was diagnosed with chronic venous insufficiency, a condition where blood pools in the veins but is otherwise in excellent health, we're told.
Dr. Jeremy Faust from Harvard Medical School told my colleagues Omar Jimenez and Brianna Keilar that the condition appears to be benign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. JEREMY FAUST, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: So, what happened here was good medical care so far, and
it's basically not alarming information. And it's not surprising. The president is an older man. I believe he just turned 79 years old. He has
had risk factors for this condition that they're talking about, which is called chronic venous insufficiency.
And what that really means is that the blood that goes out of the heart has to return to the heart through the veins. And as we age, some of that blood
flow back to the heart, that's called venous return, just slows down in some patients more than others. And that can lead to things like swelling,
that can lead to that can look like things that many people would be familiar with, like varicose veins.
So this is a pretty normal part of aging, and especially for someone in the overweight to obese category, which is where the president has always been,
and but the bigger concern which was addressed in that information that we just heard about is, is that symptoms like this do need to be evaluated for
more serious conditions, and that is what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Coming up, President Donald Trump continues to attack Fed Chair Jerome Powell. So why are the U.S. markets nearing record highs?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:30]
FOSTER: President Donald Trump sending a mixed messages on the future of Fed Chair Jerome Powell. Mr. Trump says whilst it's unlikely he would fire
the Fed chair, he would love for him to resign. The president has repeatedly attacked Jerome Powell for not lowering interest rates. In
recent days, Mr. Trump has also suggested a $2.5 billion renovation of the Federal Reserve buildings could be grounds for dismissal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAVITT: This is a good use of taxpayers time to look into this project that is millions and millions of dollars over budget. It's for a big,
beautiful mansion for the federal chairman, reserve chairman. It's completely unnecessary. It's overpriced. And I think it's a good thing the
administration, led by the president, is looking into it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, investors seem convinced that Donald Trump won't follow through on his threats of firing the Fed chair.
The Dow Jones today edging higher as stocks remain near record highs. But lawmakers from both sides of the aisle are warning that should Mr. Trump
make the unprecedented decision to remove Jerome Powell, markets would crash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): If you fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve you will see the stock market crash and you will see the bond market crash.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST, THE SOURCE: Do you think it will bring down the U.S. financial markets if he -- if he ousts Jay Powell?
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): Yep, I do, I do, because he will then be saying that decisions about interest rates in the United States will not be
based on the economics. They'll be based on politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: So, what we want, what we don't know is would the markets crash if Donald Trump fired Jerome Powell? Because we've been hearing for a lot of
politicians there.
Let's speak to Paul Donovan, though. He's a global chief economist at UBS Global Wealth Management.
Thank you so much for joining us, Paul.
So, you're the independent voice here. Would the markets crash if Donald Trump tried to remove Jerome Powell?
PAUL DONOVAN, CHIEF ECONOMIST, UBS GLOBAL WEALTH MANAGEMENT: I think that the international investor base would have two very, very serious concerns.
So the first of these which perhaps doesn't get a lot of air time, is the question of rule of law, because as things stand, the U.S. president can't
attempt to get rid of the Fed chair. President Johnson investigated doing it, was told in no uncertain terms, no, you can't do this.
So, if there was a way in which this was engineered, you're raising questions over rule of law. That is not a good thing for the world's
reserve currency to be suspected of.
The second thing is then the fact that if you are setting up a new Fed chair after Powell, it would be assumed, rightly or wrongly, that that
person would be under the political control of President Trump and that the interest rate decisions would be taken with a view to the political cycle
and not the economic cycle. That combination, I think, would do a lot of damage to the bond market because there would be expectations of even
higher inflation than is already starting to emerge in the States. And then the higher bond yields would do damage to the equity market as well.
FOSTER: And this matters globally, doesn't it, because the dollar is the world's reserve currency.
DONOVAN: It is. It's the largest reserve currency. There are several reserve currencies, but the dollar is dominant. Now, the dollar has been we
would say losing some market share. So it's become slightly less significant as a reserve currency. And because global trade is under
attack, being a reserve currency is less important than it used to be.
But yes, the value of the dollar does matter. And I think if you were to see the credibility and independence of the Federal Reserve being
challenged, that would leave a lot of international investors worrying that their money might not be safe in the United States in the future.
FOSTER: Just explain the technicalities here, though, because if Donald Trump does find a way, I mean, there are some lawyers suggesting he could
remove the Fed chair.
So, we're trying to clarify that. But broadly, they're not be able to -- they're meant to be independent, aren't they. But if he does get someone in
that, he would represent Donald Trump's view as the Fed chair. There are still checks, aren't they, within the federal reserve, which would mean
that a Fed chair wouldn't be able to take complete control of, you know, policy.
[15:25:06]
DONOVAN: So, this is absolutely correct. And I think that if you were to appoint somebody who was seen as a complete political stooge, absolutely,
you know, Donald Trump's person at the Fed, then I think that that would be actually not as concerning to markets, because the assumption is that the
interest rate setting committee would just ignore the Fed chair and they'd sort of be over in a corner muttering to themselves, and no one would pay
them any attention.
So in that situation, it would then be the other members of the Federal Reserve Open Market Committee, which is the group of people that set rates
that would be taking rates. Now, we have not had a tradition of the Fed chair being outvoted, but if you've got a complete political stooge in
there, then I think they would just be ignored. They could do what they liked. No one would pay any attention to them.
The risk for me is that we'd get a repeat of what happened under President Nixon, where the Fed chair at the time, a man called Arthur Burns, was not
seen as a complete political stooge, but was effectively the presidents mouthpiece within the FOMC. And they effectively communicated and led
Nixon's strategy, including a very aggressive rate cutting strategy in the `70s, which led to very high inflation, subsequently.
FOSTER: Are there economists that actually agree with Trump? Think Jerome Powell's wrong, that rates should fall? What's their thinking?
DONOVAN: Well, I would never consider myself to be one of Mr. Powell's greatest fans. You know, I think that economists should be running central
banks. But the thing I think at the moment is that because of, in particular the trade tax policy, the tariff policy, there is enormous
uncertainty about what happens with inflation over the course of the next 6 to 12 months and what is going to be happening to growth over the next 6 to
12 months.
There is absolutely no point looking at what's happening with inflation right now, because we know it's going to go up as we go forwards, as these
trade taxes hit the consumer in wave after wave, some of the trade taxes that are being proposed, the August trade taxes, the consumer is not going
to feel those until January of next year, but feel them they will. And that is what the Feds got to try and grapple with.
There's also the uncertainty about the deportations and the impact of that on the labor market. That might be inflationary. It might also weaken
growth. At the same time. It's a very, very complicated situation. We have unprecedented policy decisions being taken by the federal government, that
creates an unprecedented environment.
So, the wait and see approach is probably the best thing that the Federal Reserve can be doing for the moment.
FOSTER: Paul Donovan, fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for bringing us that.
Still to come, how young is too young to vote? We'll discuss plans in the U.K. to lower the voting age from 18 to 16.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:30]
FOSTER: Returning to our top story, Israel claims stray ammunition is to blame for a strike on a Catholic Church in Gaza that killed three people.
Church leaders in Jerusalem call it a blatant violation of the sanctity of religious sites. They say the church was sheltering around 600 people at
the time, most of them children. The Israeli prime minister's office writes, "Israel deeply regrets that a stray ammunition hit Gaza's Holy
Family Church. Every innocent life lost is a tragedy. We share the grief of the families and the faithful."
Our top U.N. officials say conditions in Gaza have reached an unspeakable level of devastation, with children paying the highest price. UNICEF says
on average, 28 children are killed in Gaza every single day, the equivalent of an entire classroom. Gaza's health ministry says new Israeli attacks
have killed at least 94 Palestinians, including dozens of people waiting for aid.
A British surgeon who's been working in Gaza is keeping a video diary for CNN. Nada Bashir has that, but a warning. Some of the images you're about
to see are disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK MAYNARD, SURGEON, MEDICAL AID FOR PALESTINIANS: I am just over halfway through my full spell (ph) in Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis and this is my
third trip out here since October 7th to Gaza. And it is much worse than previous visits.
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dr. Nick Maynard has been traveling in and out of Gaza for around 15 years. He's been recording diary
entries exclusively for CNN. Together with our own footage from inside the hospital, we have pieced together a firsthand look at the humanitarian
crisis unfolding inside Gaza's hospitals.
MAYNARD: There's a massive aerial bombardment just to the east of Khan Younis and the whole operating room was shaking.
BASHIR: Doctors here are not just treating wounds from bombs and bullets, they are fighting to keep their weakest patients alive as hunger spreads.
MAYNARD (through translator): Does it hurt?
Where does it hurt?
Where does it hurt?
He's very sleepy, isn't he?
BASHIR: A blockade imposed by Israel on the Gaza Strip has thrown the enclaves 2 million people into the midst of a catastrophic hunger crisis.
As a result, doctors warn Gaza's most vulnerable, including children are starving to death.
MAYNARD: It made me cry seeing them, my tears in my eyes, literally.
The expression, skin and bones doesn't do it justice. They're -- they have no muscle mass at all. Every single rib visible.
BASHIR: What we are about to show you is distressing. Baby Zainab (ph) is just five months old. Her sunken cheeks and wrinkled skin a
painful indicator of just how malnourished she is. Her helpless cries almost two weeks to hear.
MAYNARD: What is her weight?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now 21 pounds. Before at two months, she was (INAUDIBLE). She losing weight.
BASHIR: Zainab (ph) is just one of so many babies now at risk of death in Gaza.
MAYNARD: There've been four newborn babies in the last couple of weeks who've died as a direct result of malnutrition. Their mothers, they're too
malnourished to produce milk.
[15:35:02]
There are inadequate amounts of formula feed, healthcare workers who tried to bring in formula feed and had it specifically confiscated by the Israeli
border guards.
BASHIR: In response to CNN, the Israeli government said it is working to allow and facilitate the transfer of humanitarian aid to the residents of
the Gaza Strip and is actively assisting these efforts, including the entry of food.
But almost all the aid coming through is being distributed by the controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is backed by both the
U.S. and Israel. It's at these sites that hundreds of Palestinians have been killed as they desperately attempt to secure what little aid is being
made available. Many of them suffering from injuries that Dr. Nick Maynard says indicate a pattern.
MAYNARD: One day they come in with gunshot wounds to the head, another day they come in with gunshot wounds to the neck. The other day we had four
children admitted all of whom had been shot in the genitals.
BASHIR: CNN has reached out to the Israeli military but has not yet received a response.
MAYNARD: All the families of these victims, they all tell exactly the same story, that is the Israeli soldiers shooting them and the quadcopter
shooting them.
BASHIR: But after more than 21 months of constant bombardment and with at least 1,400 medical workers killed during that time, according to the
group, Medical Aid for Palestinians, fatigue and the fear of being targeted pervades.
MAYNARD: Some colleagues have lost 20 or 30 kilograms in weight. So they are exhausted mentally, they're exhausted physically, they're hungry all
the time but they cope.
BASHIR: And while doctors here work around the clock to save their patients from both bombs and bullets, their patients they say are often then lost to
hunger.
Nada Bashir, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:40:15]
FOSTER: The United Kingdom one step closer to allowing 16 year olds to vote in all national elections. Earlier on Thursday, the labor government
unveiled plans to lower the voting age from 18 to 16. If passed, the U.K. would become one of the first European countries to lower the voting age to
16, along with Austria and Malta. What we want to know is, is 16 years of age too young to vote?
Joining me now, Ed Hodgson, associate director of the think tank, More In Common.
I guess it's not really for us to say, is it -- is it too young? But you know, there is some evidence here in the U.K., isn't it, of younger people
being able to vote in some elections? Right. So how's it -- do they vote number one and do they change the vote, number two?
ED HODGSON, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR OF POLLING & ANALYSIS, MORE IN COMMON: Yeah. So in Scotland, 16 and 17 year olds have been able to vote for a while and
they tend to vote the same way that sort of 18 to 24 year olds vote, i.e. they have low turnout, they're less likely to vote than other groups. And
when they do vote, it's more likely to be, for example, in Scotland, for the SNP.
FOSTER: Which is the left.
HODGSON: The left, exactly.
The thing is, if you look in the rest of the U.K., the really interesting thing is the public don't really support this policy. We find actually,
when we've polled sort of the British public of adults, that is, people oppose it by 47 percent to 25 percent.
FOSTER: So, don't think that you're ready at 16 to vote. Is that right?
HODGSON: Yeah. People just don't feel like it's the right age. They also don't think it's the right priority. I mean, at the moment, there's so many
issues in the U.K. that people worry about with the cost of living.
FOSTER: So why is the Labour government doing it?
HODGSON: Well, it was in their manifesto, so it's good for them to say --
FOSTER: Because they think more -- they'll get more votes if they go to 16.
HODGSON: Well, it's interesting. That feels logical. Younger people tend to vote for left wing parties.
Our polling suggests it might not benefit Labour as much as they think. So, for example, if you look at how 18 to 24-year-olds vote --
FOSTER: Yes.
HODGSON: -- 18 to 24-year-old women much more likely to vote, the Green Party than Labour, the Green Party, which is to the left of labor, has an
11-point lead over Labour with that.
FOSTER: So, they're more left than an adult left?
HODGSON: Yeah, exactly. And the thing with U.K. politics at the moment is it's so fragmented. People feel so unattached to the mainstream parties.
But even if younger people might be generally a bit more left wing, actually sometimes they're further to the left than you might think.
FOSTER: What about the other thing that we hear a lot about? On the other end of the political spectrum, which is young, white men being hard, right?
And voting for Nigel Farage's party, for example. How significant would that be? Would that balance it?
HODGSON: Yeah. So Nigel Farage, there's have -- you talked to younger men about him? They all know a lot about him. He's the most followed politician
on TikTok. For example. The thing is, it's hard to say exactly how many people would vote for him.
So, if you poll young men, it's true. They're more likely to say they're going to vote for reform than have said they'll vote for sort of similar
parties in the past. So UKIP, which was the predecessor for reform, did not ever have the same vote share amongst young men, but still with young men.
Labor is sort of healthily in the lead, but actual challenge is whether enough people might sort of switch from labor to other parties as a result
of these decisions. It might make it easier for reform to win.
FOSTER: The idea was always that adults should be able to vote, 16 isn't an adult, is it? So, I mean, does your research show anything about how mature
16-year-olds are about their, you know, political decision making?
HODGSON: Yeah. So, we've done focus groups with young people and they can be very articulate about politics, and they can have strong views. And
often actually, when you ask them their biggest concerns in the world, some of their top concerns are they just don't feel like they're listened to.
So, from that sense, you can see the real demand for it. But at the same time, younger people often feel don't -- don't feel confident. They don't
feel like they necessarily have the support they need to make an informed decision.
So, they're sort of arguments both ways on that.
FOSTER: I guess they don't vote then. So, it doesn't change anything.
HODGSON: Exactly. And turnout is very low with that age group.
FOSTER: And in terms of the other European countries that have done it, has there been any shift in voting patterns because they lowered the age?
HODGSON: Yeah. There's been some really interesting analysis that says if you start voting at 16, you're more likely to develop this habit that lasts
through throughout your life. So, in fact, some evidence suggests that maybe turnout will increase in long term.
FOSTER: This is a formative age.
HODGSON: Yeah, you're at school, so your teachers can be encouraging it. You're more likely to be living with your parents. They can encourage. In
fact, there's some evidence to suggest, and this is sort of less likely, less confirmed. But there's some evidence that parents are more likely to
vote if their kids are in the house, and they can encourage them by sort of setting an example that they should all be voting.
FOSTER: Yeah. And they maybe want them to vote in the same way that they vote.
HODGSON: Yeah, exactly.
FOSTER: But that -- so it does generally stimulate democracy. Is that what you found?
HODGSON: Well, it's hard to say. It's definitely more people voting. And have you seen more people voting is stimulating democracy. That's one
thing.
FOSTER: And talking about it at school.
HODGSON: And talking about it at school. So, the U.K. people do talk about politics at school, but there's never been the option to really express
those views anywhere than sort of a mock election.
FOSTER: Yeah. So, I mean, what are the Labour Party saying to you? I mean, is this a tactic? Do they genuinely feel that 16-year-olds should have the
right to vote? Or is it, you know, this is a chance to at least get a bit of an edge on the vote against the conservatives?
[15:45:03]
HODGSON: There's lots of Labour politicians who might lose their seats as a result of this. So, Wes Streeting, who's the health secretary, he's in a
constituency where his majority is smaller than the number of people aged 16 to 17-year-olds.
FOSTER: It could tip it towards green or --
HODGSON: This would go towards an independent candidate who's to the left of him, actually.
FOSTER: Yes.
HODGSON: So there's a number who could lose. But the problem is the perception is that people overwhelmingly think they're just doing it to
benefit themselves. And that's not really a view you want to sort of have the public have a view of your government.
FOSTER: Yes, okay.
Ed Hodgson, thank you so much for joining us.
HODGSON: Thank you.
FOSTER: Polls show Americans like the idea of a third major political party. Meanwhile, just not one held by Tesla CEO Elon Musk. And it's in
part because they're not liking the man himself much these days.
Musk began floating the idea of launching the America party after his online breakup with President Trump. But a recent CNN poll shows that only
23 percent of Americans see Musk favorably right now, whilst a whopping 60 percent have an unfavorable view of him.
CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten joins me now.
But we all know we all sort of take note of what he says in politics. So he's having an influence either way, isn't he, Harry?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: I guess he is having an influence, but you can have a good influence or a bad influence, you know? What they used
to say about Howard Stern, essentially was the people who listened to him the most were the people who hated him. But anyway, when it comes to Elon
Musk, let's sort of dive into the numbers here.
You know, you talk about those favorable ratings being so low for him and those unfavorables being so high for him. So, what are we talking about
here? You know, voters on a third party run by Elon Musk get this, just 22 percent of voters nationwide here in the United States favor the idea. What
takes the cake? Seventy-seven percent oppose.
My goodness gracious. You can rarely get three quarters of Americans to agree on anything, but you get three quarters of Americans to agree. They
do not want what Elon Musk is selling when it comes to a third party.
And I think it's so important to take a note of historically what this exactly means, because Elon Musk is not the first guy out there who's tried
to float the idea of a third party. Let's go through the time machine, jump in the Delorean. You might remember Ross Perot.
Ross Perot, of course, ran as an independent in 1992 here in the United States, got about 19 percent of the popular vote. And then he floated the
idea of starting a reform party, a third party. He did actually start it.
You go back to 1993, though. Get this. 50 percent of Americans actually favored the idea of a Ross Perot led third party, compared to 35 percent
who opposed it. Look at where Elon Musk is compared to Ross Perot. He's not even in the same ballpark. He's simply put, not even in the same ballpark.
We talked about it, the 22 percent who favor and the 77 percent opposed. And I will note the reform party really didn't go anywhere. It basically
reached its apex when Jesse Ventura, the former wrestler, was able to win the governorship out in Minnesota. And that was basically it.
And I think that is what is so important to note here. Starting a third party in the United States and having it be successful is nearly
impossible. Of course, Elon Musk, not able to run for president like Ross Perot, was able to do twice in the 1990s. His main ideas, let's back up,
let's back some congressional candidates.
Well, I will tell you the idea that you could be successful as a third party independent or write in congressional candidate history does not
favor you. What are we talking about here? Elected to congress from a third party, including independents and writings. We can go all the way back
since 1970 and get this just 0.2 percent of all winners were independents, third parties or write-ins. We're talking about over 13,000 races, only
about 24 of those were won by independents, third parties or write-ins. And the majority of those were either named Angus King from Maine or Bernie
Sanders from Vermont.
And last I checked, Elon Musk's name is not either Angus King or Bernie Sanders -- Max.
FOSTER: Absolutely. Harry Enten, thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.
FOSTER: Still to come, strong feelings about what kind of sweetener Coca- Cola should be using in the U.S. from the man who has a Diet Coke button in his Oval Office, apparently.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:51:48]
FOSTER: President Donald Trump claims he's persuaded Coca-Cola to change the sweetener in its flagship drink, coke. Mr. Trump says he's been
speaking to the company about using real cane sugar in the United States. American Coca-Cola is currently made with high fructose corn syrup, which
is much cheaper in the U.S., while the Mexican version is made with cane sugar. Coca-Cola hasn't confirmed the change, but says the company
appreciates President Trump's enthusiasm.
For more, let's bring in our Anna Stewart.
What is going on? I mean, really.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The president just doesn't have enough things to do with the trade war and geopolitics. He's also campaigning with
this.
FOSTER: Is it distraction, or do you think he drinks Mexican Coke and thinks it tastes nicer? Or is this about being supporting local farmers? I
mean, what's going on?
STEWART: There are a number of things. Or is it healthier? You know, there's an argument that high fructose corn syrup is more processed than
cane sugar, although actually Coca-Cola has come out today and said they're much the same. They say it's safe, it's the same number of calories, and
its metabolized in a similar way.
From Donald Trump, from the president, we got this Truth Social which essentially just said it's just better. So we're not quite sure in which
way it is better, but also not sure, Max, if this story is confirmed by Coca-Cola, at least because they've said, well, they appreciate the
president's enthusiasm, they'll just let us know if they make any changes to innovative products in their range going forward. So really, at this
stage, quite unclear what's going to happen with --
FOSTER: And also what sort of -- I mean, could start putting sanctions on a company like Coke, presumably he's done it on others, hasn't he?
STEWART: I mean, it's entirely possible. He's clearly a big fan of Coca- Cola.
FOSTER: Yes.
STEWART: And what would be interesting, of course, is given they use corn syrup because it's cheaper. If Coca-Cola were to change their recipe in
all, Diet Cokes were to use cane sugar going forwards, there's going to be an increased cost for Coca-Cola. And probably the consumer as well. It's
also going to be punishing for corn farmers and some big Republican states.
FOSTER: Yes.
STEWART: It's also going to involve having to probably import more cane sugar. And the biggest markets the U.S. gets cane sugar from include Brazil
and Mexico, which are very much part of Trump's trade war. So quite a few questions here.
FOSTER: So, you'll have to start growing it in the U.S. presumably.
STEWART: Well, they grow a lot, but they still have to import maybe 20 percent of what they have.
FOSTER: And Coke is a pretty sophisticated marketing machine. They, you know, they probably take the view that we've developed a formula in America
that sells.
STEWART: And actually in different markets around the world, as it turns out, after my extensive research into Coca-Cola today. Yes, different types
of sugar.
In the U.K., it's not just cane sugar, but apparently beet sugar as well. In Mexico, it's cane sugar. What we need is viewers to send us their Coca-
Cola so we can do a proper taste test.
FOSTER: You won't be here. You're going away, for how long? You don't know yet.
STEWART: Who knows? Months. See you next year.
FOSTER: Anna going maternity. And this is presumably your last live hit. Is it?
STEWART: This is it. I'm talking about Coca-Cola.
FOSTER: If people have been watching for an hour. But I Soares tried to steal the moment, which should have been mine. Which was your last live
hit?
STEWART: She did.
FOSTER: She did. So, she did a bit of a tribute. But we'll miss you.
STEWART: I'll miss you, too.
FOSTER: And watch.
STEWART: I will. I mean, I'm going to have hours and hours of nightless --
FOSTER: Yeah. No feedback. Just watch, you know, just say it's great.
STEWART: No, I'll be trolling you on social.
FOSTER: Thank you so much. Anna Stewart, the troll, is leaving us for a few months.
[15:55:02]
Now, a rare meteorite, meanwhile, from Mars sold at auction for $5.3 million. It was sold to an anonymous bidder at Sotheby's in New York on
Wednesday. The unusually large chunk of Red Planet weighs in at 24 kilos, or 54 pounds. Analysis revealed it was probably blasted into space by a
powerful asteroid impact that turned parts of it into glass.
The rock was discovered in a remote region of Niger in 2023. A Martian rock with the planet's atmosphere and trapped in it sold for $200,000 back in
2021.
Got the analysis on that?
STEWART: Well, you could buy two meteorites for the same price as the original Birkin bag.
FOSTER: Oh, my goodness.
STEWART: There you go.
FOSTER: We're going to miss this type of deep thought.
I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next and I won't be on it. Say goodbye. Bye.
END
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