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Black Sabbath Frontman Ozzy Osbourne Dead At 76; Trump Threat To Political Rivals: "Time To Go After People"; DOJ Says It Wants To Talk To Epstein Associate Ghislaine Maxwell; Israel Ramps Up Offensive As Starvation Crisis Spirals. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired July 22, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:17]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: The music world has lost one of its most colorful icons, Ozzy Osbourne. The heavy metal singer has died at the age
of 76.
Ozzy recently played his farewell show in his hometown of Birmingham, England, with his original band, Black Sabbath. In recent years, he had a
series of health setbacks, including a Parkinson's disease diagnosis and several surgeries. He leaves behind his wife Sharon, and five children.
Stephanie Elam looks back at the life of a true heavy metal legend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He was called the prince of darkness.
And for half a century, British musician Ozzy Osbourne rocked heavy metal fans worldwide. As frontman for Black Sabbath, Osborne's charisma and
wildness on and off the stage.
OZZY OSBOURNE, BLACK SABBATH FRONTMAN: Had I known it was a real bat, I would never have bitten into it.
ELAM: Transcended music and made him a cultural phenomenon.
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Ozzy Osbourne.
ELAM: Born in Birmingham, England, in 1948, John Ozzy Osbourne left school at 15 and found inspiration after hearing the Beatles on the radio.
OSBOURNE: I can remember the first time I heard she loves you. That changed my life because I thought, that's what I want to do.
ELAM: Osbourne became lead vocalist of the band that would become Black Sabbath in 1968, and pioneered a daring, genre defining new sound. The
heavy guitar and riff-based albums Black Sabbath and paranoid captivated audiences in 1970.
As Black Sabbath's fame exploded, so did Osbourne's hell-raising behavior. He was fired from Black Sabbath for drug and alcohol abuse in 1979. Those
same issues broke up. Osbourne's first marriage and followed him for decades.
LARRY KING, FORMER CNN HOST: Have you been tempted to go back to the drug usage?
OSBOURNE: All the time. I mean, when you're a drug addict, you don't stop being a drug addict because you stop taking them.
ELAM: But Sharon Arden, the daughter of Black Sabbath's manager, helped get him back on his feet and encouraged him to go solo.
Osbourne's debut single, "Crazy Train", got the singer back on the rails. Ozzy and Sharon married in 1982, and Sharon managed his career for the rest
of his life. Their love was on full display to an entirely new audience in the 2002 MTV reality series "The Osbournes". Ozzy's dry at times
unintelligible humor and relatable parenting challenges endeared him to millions, and the fly on the wall look at the Osbournes' expletive laden
daily life shot the family to fame.
After years of speculation about his health, Osbourne revealed his Parkinson's disease diagnosis in an interview with "Good Morning America"
in 2020. But Osbourne was committed to making more music and three years later, he won two Grammys for his album "Patient Number 9", bringing his
grammy total to five.
Osborne reunited with his bandmates over the years -- to record their last album, "13", and for Black Sabbath's final The End Concert Tour in 2016.
Osbourne made over 20 albums and is among the elite group inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice.
From prince of darkness to reality TV show dad, Ozzy Osbourne was a man, a myth and a legend.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Joining me now to give us some perspective on this is Lisa Respers France.
As we were hearing there, Lisa, this sad, the tragic death of Ozzy Osbourne occurred just a few weeks after he had reportedly reunited with his band
members for a farewell concert in the United Kingdom.
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN REPORTER: Yes, and little did we know that he really was telling us farewell. You know, Dave Navarro once referred to
Black Sabbath as the Beatles of heavy metal, and that's exactly what they were.
But with Ozzy, we had something special. You know, he leaned into that prince of darkness title. He used it on his Twitter account.
But with that reality show, we were able to see him in a completely different light, and I don't think people fully understand how him and his
family doing that show really helped to change reality TV because it allowed other celebrities to see that people could see you in a different
context. And bring you even more success because, you know, people knew him as the wild man, the bad boy, the person who bit the head off of a bat
that, you know, infamous story.
[15:05:06]
But seeing him as a family man and seeing him, you know, be so in love with his wife, Sharon, it helped to catapult them all into superstardom in a way
that he, you know, enjoyed by himself. But it made Sharon a star. It made their children, Kelly and Jack, stars.
And Kelly actually just got engaged. They shared a video of her now fiance proposing to her in front of her family. And you know, her father joked,
you know that you can't have my daughter type of thing. And it was just very endearing.
So, you know, he was just a multifaceted man. He was so much more than just his music. And we got to see that through their reality show.
MACFARLANE: Yeah. It's interesting that, you know, you call him the Beatles of heavy metal, because I know that the Beatles were a huge influence on
him getting into music in the first place. And I've just been scrolling through and seeing a lot of these tributes coming in, Lisa.
We're hearing from Metallica, were hearing from icons like Ronnie Wood, who's just posted an image of him alongside Mick Jagger, and Slash of Guns
n Roses.
And UB40's Ali Campbell said this you didn't just shape a culture, you defined it. You led from the front and you never looked back.
I mean, can you just talk to us a bit more about Ozzy Osbourne as the sort of pioneering artist of his of his era?
FRANCE: Yeah. You know, when people think about rock `n' roll, they think about, you know, just the wildness of music. With heavy metal, it can be
even more intense. And what Ozzy did is he really influenced a generation of musicians.
Some of those people who you mentioned may not have gotten into the industry if it wasn't for Ozzy Osbourne, because they just admired him so
because he was fully himself and he was, you know, had this ability of showing like warts and all, you know, that what that comment that he made
in our obituary package where, you know, he said, you don't stop being a drug addict just because you stopped doing drugs. I mean, that was just
quintessential Ozzy Osbourne.
Like he was who he was. And he embraced the music industry in a way that said it was okay to be wild. It was okay to be outrageous and over the top,
and people came to expect that from Ozzy Osbourne.
And so, I think that his legacy is that he did what he wanted to do. And even towards the end, you know, he decided when he was going to stop and he
decided when he was going to come back and let us know that he was going to do it one more time. And seeing him reunited with his bandmates. You know,
what a moment.
It just, you know, in his hometown, people were so excited. And I think that is just going to increase the grief, because that only happened a
couple weeks ago. So I think that the music industry has lost, as the streets like to say, a real one with Ozzy Osbourne.
MACFARLANE: And as you say, Lisa, I think people have come to expect, you know, sort of bad behavior from a heavy metal legend like Ozzy Osbourne.
You know, the drug taking the controversy off the stage. But he really did battle through some very difficult times with his health. We know he had
Parkinson's disease, and this is a young age. You know, for him to be passing away.
Can you just tell us, you know, what we perhaps didn't see behind the scenes with his struggles with that disease?
FRANCE: Yeah. Physically, he was in really rough shape and he and his wife talked about that. You could see Sharon wiping away a tear when he revealed
his Parkinson's disease, but he had also fallen and, you know, and hurt himself very badly. He just had a series of health challenges.
And, you know, I think that's what makes it a little even more difficult because we view these, you know, people in the music industry, especially
like Ozzy Osbourne, you think they're going to live forever. And he did not shy away from showing us that, you know, he was aging. He was ill, but he
still inside was still Ozzy Osbourne. He still loved the music. And I think that's what really drove him to do this last and final farewell concert.
You know, we don't know if he knew that he was towards the end. But I feel like, you know, getting the opportunity to see him do one last show and
getting the opportunity to see his family rally around him for Kelly's engagement, it felt like, at least to those on the outside looking in, that
they were just trying to have every single moment that they could of happiness and joy as a family.
And according to their statement, you know, they were with him. He was surrounded by love, they said, because he was surrounded by his family. And
if we know anything about Ozzy Osbourne, other than the fact that he was an incredible musician and iconic, he loved his family. He adored his
children, and I think that is part of his legacy and what he would be happy to be remembered as a father.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, and on that point, Lisa, I just want to bring in Stephanie Elam, who whose obituary we just saw there.
Stephanie, we were talking a few minutes ago that not only did Ozzy Osbourne change the face of music, but he changed the face of reality TV as
well.
[15:10:01]
And the insight we got to see from that MTV series was just how much he loved his five children. I mean, it's what I remember growing up.
ELAM: Yeah, he definitely loved his children. And you would think, you know, this guy is like the prince of darkness, you know, the black
eyeliner, all of these things that he wouldn't be this man who was married for decades to his wife and then constantly present for his children. But
that's exactly what the world got to see.
Those are really like some of the heydays for MTV. And the time that they were really pushing the envelope of what was happening and getting such a
massive star like Ozzy Osbourne and his family to participate in such a reality show, really did catapult the entire family to fame and really
became sort of the blueprint on how we saw other shows take off after that.
And I think it's also worth noting that a lot of times we saw these reality shows and families would fall apart after they were on under this kind of a
microscope. That did not happen with the Osbournes. They stayed tight and most importantly, Ozzy and Sharon stayed united as well.
MACFARLANE: Can you tell us a bit about his start in music, Stephanie, in Birmingham, in the United Kingdom, you said previously that he was very
heavily influenced by the Beatles. And, you know, when he heard the Beatles, that was the moment he decided this was the path for him.
ELAM: Yeah, he left school at 15. It was really just drawn to music, knew that this is what he wanted to do, joined up with Black Sabbath, became
their lead singer and really just had an instrumental way in changing how heavy metal was perceived, how this music genre blossomed really did take
the lead there.
And, you know, I was just sitting watching a bit of his final concert, which was on July 5th. I mean, let's think about that. The man is 76 years
old, and he just did his final concert. Now he was sitting in sort of like a throne, like black chair, as you might expect.
But he's still there singing to his diehard fans that are watching him perform in this last concert. He's there to when at the same concert, when
his daughter Kelly got engaged. So you think about this man who's still out there singing the songs, knowing all the words, while at the same time he's
been battling Parkinson's, emphysema and all of the ramifications from his addictions over all of the decades.
I mean, this man constantly was open about what he was dealing with and how he was always craving it. But learning to get past it in his later years.
It really is a remarkable story for a rock star, especially, and to get to 76 years of age and still be performing, even if he was sitting down, just
think about it. He was still rocking out a crowd at his age, just weeks, just weeks before his body gave out on him.
MACFARLANE: Yeah. And just in the last few minutes, Stephanie, Black Sabbath have paid tribute to Ozzy posting a photograph of him with the band
with a caption that just reads, Ozzy forever. And I've been mentioning already that there have been a ton of tributes flooding in from legends,
really, of the music world.
What do you think we are going to see? You know, this, this outpouring, this tribute in tribute to this man. You know, and the type of music
artists we're going to see come forward in this moment.
ELAM: This man has influenced music for decades. It's not an understatement when you look at a week like this, where we've had some big losses coming
out of Hollywood, that you can see that people are going to want to honor them. There are going to be people that come out and say, I became a
musician because of listening to Black Sabbath, much as he was saying the same thing about the Beatles.
This is a massive loss. And even when you know somebody is sick and battling an illness, it doesn't make it any easier. And so, I expect that
you're going to hear from a lot of large musicians, heavyweights in the industry who are going to come out and pay testament to him. And trust me,
by the time we get to the Grammys at the beginning of next year, I imagine there will be a huge way that they plan to honor him just because he has
influenced music so much in his career.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, that's a very good point. Stephanie, we appreciate you being with us now. Thanks to Lisa as well as we mark this extraordinary man
and the music he produced. Thank you.
ELAM: Thank you.
MACFARLANE: Up next, that extraordinary tirade in the oval office, Donald Trump says it's time to go after people.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:30]
MACFARLANE: A stunning warning from President Donald Trump today to his political opponents that whether it's wrong or right or wrong, it's time to
go after people. During an oval office meeting with Philippines leader Ferdinand Marcos Jr., Mr. Trump was asked about the growing uproar
surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein case. The president quickly deflected, instead launching threats against, among others, former President Barack
Obama, while referencing a report on the 2016 election released last week by his director of national intelligence, Mr. Trump accused Obama of
treason without providing evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We found absolute -- this isn't like evidence or this is like proof, irrefutable proof that Obama was
seditious, that Obama was trying to lead a coup, and it was with Hillary Clinton, with all these other people. But Obama headed it up.
This is the biggest scandal in the history of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: It bears repeating that the claims made by President Trump were debunked by Republican-led Senate investigation in 2020.
Let's bring back our Kevin Liptak at the White House.
And, Kevin, this was a clear pivot from President Trump following a question put to him on Jeffrey Epstein. But it was also an escalation in
language that I don't think we've heard before. You know, words like treason and going after them yeah.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: And the president has accused Barack Obama in the past of spying on him, of trying to undermine
him. But you're right. This does go a step further, accusing him of treason, which is one of the biggest crimes that you can commit in the
United States, accusing him of sedition and saying that he was trying to lead a coup.
And he did answer this, or he used these phrases as he was responding to a question about Jeffrey Epstein. He was asked whether it was appropriate for
the Justice Department to try and interview the Epstein associate, Ghislaine Maxwell, which the attorney general said that the department
would be doing. The president said that that would be appropriate and then immediately pivoted to this question of Russia and Obama.
And he is alluding to those documents that Tulsi Gabbard, the director of national intelligence, put out last week, which were meant to undercut the
Obama administration, the intelligence community in that era. Their findings that Russia did work to influence the 2016 election on the part of
President Trump.
But, you know, they really twisting a lot of what the intelligence is. Gabbard and president Trump seem to be pointing back to this moment in time
between when President Trump won the 2016 election and when he was inaugurated in 2017. When Obama asked his intelligence officials to go back
and provide another assessment, and the president and Gabbard seem to be making the case, that that is evidence of president Obama trying to
undercut the election results and trying to undermine President Trump.
But what the assessment actually found was that, yes, Russia tried to influence the election using things like social media, including things
like releasing and leaking hacked emails, but also by trying to interfere in some of the election systems. The report found that Russia was trying to
influence the election, but didn't necessarily change any votes. I think bottom line in all of this is that President Trump seems very intent on
trying to shift focus from the Epstein matter to this other controversy that he and his intelligence chief are trying to gin up and really pointing
a lot of the blame on his predecessor, Barack Obama.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, a pivot we have seen time and time again this week. Kevin Liptak there from the White House. Thank you.
The Justice Department now plans to reach out to Jeffrey Epstein's accomplice, Ghislaine Maxwell, for a meeting. This comes amid recent calls
for Maxwell to testify about the accused sex trafficker, her attorney David Oscar Markus tells CNN, "I can confirm that we are in discussions with the
government and that Ghislaine will always testify truthfully. We are grateful to President Trump for his commitment to uncovering the truth in
this case."
Well, Evan Perez is tracking the story from Washington, joins us now.
And, Evan, this is raising a lot of eyebrows because we know Ghislaine Maxwell is serving a 20-year sentence. One would assume she would have an
incentive for providing information. We know that the president has been very liberal in handing out presidential pardons. So, what is the feeling
about this and how much concern.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, I think, Christina, that's exactly the concern that is being raised is that she
would have the incentive because she is appealing her 20 year sentence right now.
She's right now serving time in federal prison, in the meantime. But, you know, she does want to get out of prison, and she does hold the keys. She
could help President Trump put this issue to rest, which is obviously something that they brought on themselves and are now trying very, very
difficult -- with very much difficulty to extricate themselves from. I'll read you just a part, though, of what happened today, right? We know a
couple update you in a couple of things that have happened just since that exchange between the deputy attorney general, Todd Blanche, and his --
David Markus, who is Ghislaine's attorney, Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney.
We know now, though, that one of the things that they\re going to do, the Maxwell camp, is they're going to oppose an effort by the Justice
Department to have records unsealed in the Epstein and Maxwell cases. So that is going to make it more difficult for President Trump and for the
Justice Department to kind of have the judges sort of be responsible for releasing additional documents.
We also do know that that, you know, there has been no discussions on the part of Maxwell to talk to Congress because some of what happened here was
the Justice Department realized they were about to fall behind. Congressional Republicans who have made a big issue of this and have been
pushing.
And so today, we now know that we have a congressional committee that is going to subpoena maxwell to request her testimony. And so that's what's
also at work here at the Justice Department is that they need to try to find a way to keep control of whatever Ghislaine Maxwell knows at this
point -- Christina.
MACFARLANE: And on that last point, Evan, about what she may what she may know, would there be much information Ghislaine Maxwell can give them that
hasn't already been provided to prosecutors?
PEREZ: You know, that's a great question. And I think -- and I think at this point, my guess is no, right? But we don't know what we don't know.
And the -- you know, Ghislaine Maxwell fought the case that that was brought against her. So we've never actually heard her say everything she
knows.
She also had problems with some of her testimony, which is why, you know, they also brought charges of lying to the federal agents that were talking
to her. So, we know that there is a lot of issues here. We don't know whether she possesses any additional information.
I can tell you this, prosecutors and investigators in the Trump administration, the first one in the Biden administration, all looked at
whether there were additional people who could be charged with crimes. They found no such evidence. And until last week, we also heard from the Justice
Department, the current Justice Department, that they believed there was no one else -- they had no evidence to indicate anyone else could be
prosecuted for additional crimes.
So, the question remains, what else could there be? They themselves didn't think so. It's just because obviously, there's a political problem and they
need to solve it, that you're seeing this additional tap dance happening.
MACFARLANE: All right. Evan Perez, appreciate it. Thank you.
PEREZ: Sure.
MACFARLANE: Fainting from hunger and dying of starvation. The deadly crisis imposed on Gaza is spiraling as the Israeli military ramps up its offensive
in the shattered enclave. U.S. special envoy, Steve Witkoff, heads to the Middle East to work towards a Gaza ceasefire. Palestinian health officials
say 15 people, including four children, have died of starvation across the besieged enclave in 24 hours.
And the U.N. says the Israeli military has killed more than a thousand desperate Palestinians trying to access food since late May. The U.N.'s
Agency for Palestinian Refugees also says its colleagues in Gaza are collapsing from severe hunger.
This all comes as Israel expands its military operation in central Gaza. Israeli Army Radio says, quote, it is expected to continue for several
weeks.
CNN's Paula Hancocks brings us the story as Gaza's humanitarian crisis grows more dire.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we hear reports of more deaths due to starvation in Gaza, we're also understanding that the Israeli military is
ramping up its operations in central Gaza. Now this is significant. It's an area called Deir Al-Balah, and it's an area that the IDF has not operated
in for 21 months in a ground operation.
Now the IDF is not commenting on this operation at this point, but Israel Army Radio says that they believe there is one battalion that is operating
there, and the operation could last several weeks.
Now there is concern for those on the ground. We know there have been evacuation orders for those in the area. Since Sunday, we have seen
hundreds of people trying to leave the area, carrying what they can.
We've heard as well from the U.N. Human Rights chief, and he has said the operation will invariably lead to further civilian deaths. Also saying that
just when you thought the nightmare couldn't get worse, it does. So, there are concerns for those still on the ground in Deir Al-Balah.
Now, Israeli media had been reporting that they believed the reason the IDF hadn't gone into this area before is because they suspected some hostages
were being held there.
So, we've heard from the forum that represents those families of the hostages, and they say that they are increasingly alarmed that this
operation could harm their loved ones that are still being held by Hamas and other militant groups.
We also heard from World Health Organization. They say that in Deir Al- Balah, their main warehouse and their staff residence were hit by the
Israeli military. They say that the warehouse was looted by desperate crowds shortly afterwards, so they have lost their supplies.
And they also say that the women and children were forced to evacuate the staff residents, and that the men were handcuffed, stripped, interrogated
on the spot.
Now there is increasing criticism across the board of the humanitarian situation. Israel has been saying, through COGAT, its aid group, or its
agency that helps the distribution of aid that the IDF is trying to facilitate the release of aid.
But we're hearing from the Ministry of Health that 15 people, including four children, have died in just the past 24 hours. We're hearing from
hospital officials this one, the director of the main Al Shifa Hospital, saying that they are constantly having people coming in with malnutrition
and with starvation symptoms.
And he said, we are, quote, heading towards terrifying death tolls.
Now, Israel has pushed back against the criticism, but we are hearing increasing voices that say there needs to be a ceasefire and there needs to
be more aid allowed in.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: We'll be right back with more in just a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:32:50]
MACFARLANE: The godfather of heavy metal has died. Ozzy Osbourne, the frontman of Black Sabbath, has passed away at the age of 76. Tributes are
pouring in online from the music world. Singer Elton John is remembering him as a, quote, dear friend and huge trailblazer who secured his place in
the pantheon of rock gods, a true legend.
Nick Reilly is content editor for "Rolling Stone" UK, and he joins me now.
And I think just hearing that tribute from Elton John reminds us just what a huge figure he was, not just in the world of heavy metal, but music in
general.
NICK REILLY, CONTENT EDITOR, ROLLING STONE UK: Yeah, absolutely. He really was. And the fact that people like Elton are paying tribute really speaks
volumes. The fact that. He was seen as this icon across the world of music. He was beloved for his personality, but also for the fact that he was just
such a pioneer.
It was Black Sabbath that invented heavy metal, and that was what Ozzy Osbourne did. He was the face of this band that emerged in the `60s. And,
you know, just created heavy metal and changed the world in doing so. And I think it is a really, really sad day for music.
MACFARLANE: I mean, it's somewhat expected, isn't it, always of heavy metal stars to be as notorious off the stage as they are on it? But I feel like
Ozzy Osbourne kind of redefined that space as well. I mean, everyone, of course, remembers him biting the head off a duckling.
But can you just talk to us about the enigmatic man as well as the musician?
REILLY: Yeah, that's really interesting. I think he was an enigmatic man, I think, and we saw that Wendy Osbourne's arrived because, as you mentioned,
there was this side of Ozzy that publicly facing man who bit the head off a bat. The man who urinated on the Alamo in the `80s and rather annoyed the
whole state of Texas.
But when the Osbournes came and changed reality TV in the noughties, suddenly this terrifying metal star became this bumbling, adorable, cuddly
family man. And I think that really kind of transformed Ozzy.
[15:35:03]
The fact that we saw this alternative side, that there was there all along, and people loved him for that side as much as they loved the music.
I think perhaps it was the duality of those sides that, on one hand, it was this man who really transformed music by creating heavy metal, this kind of
thing where people thought he was a devil worshiper, which he always denied. But certainly, it created moral panics in some sections. And there
was, you know, a perception of fear.
And then, on the other hand, we had this cuddly, bumbling, lovely family man. So, I think, you know, those two sides are part of the reason why
people really loved Ozzy.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, maybe that's why I thought it was a duck and not a bat that he bit the head off. It's not a very Black Sabbath, is it?
Listen, we've been talking about how this this death tragically came after he had just reunited with his band for a farewell concert in the U.K.,
which I understand was some 12 hours long. And, you know, the family were involved in that as well. I think there was an engagement for his daughter.
Can you talk to us a bit more about those final moments, that final concert?
REILLY: Yeah. So, the final gig was something that I think he'd been planning for a while, because I had the pleasure, and it really was a
pleasure of interviewing Ozzy in 2023. And at that point, he was very much convalescing. He was laid up with Parkinson's.
But one of the things that he said to me was, I just want to be well enough to do one final gig where I can kind of thank my fans for the life I've
been able to lead. And if I drop dead at the end of it, I'll be happy man is what he said to me.
Now, he very much didn't drop dead at the end of it, but we are kind of speaking in relative terms that he died a matter of two weeks after, and it
kind of feels like this one final bit of business that Ozzy had to do by saying, thank you, putting on what some, you know, already regarded as one
of the greatest heavy metal shows of all time, having this lineup where Ozzy first on his own but then reunited with the original Black Sabbath
lineup and, you know, flanked by this bill that included the likes of Guns N' Roses and Metallica supporting -- I mean, you know that you're in a
pretty special place in the musical pantheon when you've got the likes of Guns N' Roses and Metallica as your warm up band, this amazing 12-hour gig.
And yeah, it really felt like that was kind of perhaps Ozzy's one final bit of business that he had to get done. And now, you know, sadly, two weeks
later, he's passed away.
MACFARLANE: I mean, a bittersweet moment, isn't it? And I'm so glad that he was able to have that moment with his family there, especially.
Nick, we really appreciate you joining us. And so great that you got to meet the man as well towards the end. Thank you.
REILLY: Thanks very much.
MACFARLANE: Now, the drumbeat around the Jeffrey Epstein files is growing louder, and Donald Trump is becoming increasingly convinced of a conspiracy
against him, in an extraordinary Oval Office tirade. He pivoted from a question on Epstein to say it was time to target his political rivals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know, when we caught Hillary Cinton, I said, you know what? Let's not -- let's not go too far here. It's the ex-wife of a president.
And I thought it was sort of terrible. And I let her off the hook. And I'm very happy I did.
But it's time to start. After what they did to me. And whether it's right or wrong, it's time to go after people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: Well, CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali is here to discuss with us.
And, Tim, we've been talking for the last hour or so about how this was obviously a big pivot from Donald Trump against talking away from talking
about Jeffrey Epstein. But even by Trump's standards, this was a very bombastic press conference, with him using language we haven't really heard
to this extent before, you know, threatening to go after people, accusing President Obama of treason.
How unusual is it for a president to become so fixated on settling scores with political enemies? If we look back in history.
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it's -- it's not unprecedented. But what's unprecedented? And I'll (AUDIO GAP) the precedent
is that there's a permissive environment for Donald Trump to do this. Richard Nixon also went on tirades, and he did it on tape. He recorded
himself, and he lamented the fact that he couldn't do more to destroy his enemies and pushed his lieutenants to try to destroy them. Whether --
whether it was through the use of the IRS to audit their taxes or it was leaking false information to the press about them.
MACFARLANE: Tim -- Tim, I'm so sorry, but were having a bit of trouble with your audio, which is a real shame. But we will perhaps try and come back to
you a little later on. Apologies for now. It's just unfortunately not quite good enough for us to continue.
[15:40:01]
And hopefully, we'll get Tim back.
But after the break, "say her name" was the call from activists, now, five years on, after Breonna Taylor's death, a police officer is sentenced to
prison.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Hi. Welcome back.
We want to pick right up where we left off with CNN presidential historian Tim Naftali, who's joining us back to discuss President Trump's outburst in
the Oval Office just a couple of hours ago.
And, Tim, we were just -- I was just asking you how unusual it is for a president like Donald Trump to become so fixated as he appears to be right
now, settling past scores.
Can you talk to us about the precedent this has in history and the climate that Donald Trump has around him right now, that might be different from
previous administrations?
NAFTALI: Richard Nixon fixated on his enemies, too, but he was not operating the same kind of permissive environment that Donald Trump has
created for himself.
Richard Nixon fulminated the mouth. We know this. It's on tape, attacked his enemies, wanted the internal revenue service to audit them, wanted
falsehoods to be leaked to the press about them, to destroy their reputations. He wanted to do that, but he had people around him who said
no, who found a way to slow-walk these requests to make many of them disappear. He did some bad things, there's no question about it. But he
wanted to do much, much more.
Donald Trump in his second term, has focused on not having anyone around him who will try to curate or in any way filter his impulses. Clearly, he
had people around him in the first term who said no to him when he wanted to do things that they felt were unpresidential. He doesn't have anybody
like that around him right now.
And so, in the campaign, he promised his supporters that he would go after his enemies.
[15:45:04]
It's not like he didn't promise to do this. He said out loud what Richard Nixon only said privately in the Oval Office, and now he has repeated his
threat to go after his enemies. Its a very useful time for him to do this, because, of course, he's trying to throw red meat to the far right, because
the far right at the moment is not terribly happy with how he's dealing with the Epstein story.
So he's upping the -- he's upping the ante, he's throwing red meat to his base, but he's basically saying the same thing he said throughout the
campaign that he plans to use the power of the federal government to hurt his enemies. Richard Nixon wanted to do that, but the federal government
around him didn't let him do it. The federal government around Donald Trump at the moment is apparently prepared to allow him to do practically
anything against his enemies. So, this is a dangerous time in the United States.
MACFARLANE: It does appear to be that way. The politicization of the intelligence community just a just highlighted once again today.
Tim, we will have to leave it there. We appreciate your thoughts and giving us that context. Thank you.
Now, the death of Breonna Taylor in 2020 sparked protests around the world in the name of Black Lives Matter. Now, a former police officer has been
sentenced to nearly three years in prison over his role in the deadly raid that took her life. Brett Hankison fired ten shots during the raid. While
they didn't hit anyone. A judge said she was startled that more people didn't get hurt. The judge also criticized the department of justice, with
the Trump administration now in charge, the DOJ sent a new prosecutor for the case who changed tack and argued that Hankinson's crime should only
carry a one-day sentence.
Joining me now is the attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin.
And, Areva, I think when that suggestion by the Justice Department was made last week, it was -- it was a -- it was a it was a bit of a shock certainly
for Taylor's family. What justification did the department make for that recommendation.
AREVA MARTIN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, the justification doesn't withstand muster, Christina, basically saying that there had been a hung
jury before with respect to this defendant. The reality is the Trump administration has been hostile to these types of prosecutions. And this
Justice Department demonstrated that by asking that this man who had been sentenced by a jury of his peers, only be given one day.
It was outrageous. Breonna Taylor's mom has been on television on this station expressing her outrage at the recommendation from the Justice
Department, saying, essentially, the justice department should have been sitting next to the defense attorneys because essentially, their arguments
were tantamount to those that you would have heard from a defense attorney, not from the prosecuting attorney's office.
It really is a miscarriage of justice for this Department of Justice to have made the type of argument that it made in this case.
MACFARLANE: And we've seen sweeping changes to the Justice Department since the Trump administration came in the rolling back of Biden era policies, a
sort of mass exodus, really, from the department as well. How politicized has the Justice Department come and what impact is that having on the civil
rights division within the Justice Department?
MARTIN: Well, the department has become highly politicized under Donald Trump and his new department of justice executives, essentially rolling
back, as you said, so many of the gains that were made in terms of investigating police departments in initiating not only investigations, but
going in and forcing these police departments to change their policies, policies which were inherently biased against people of color, particularly
African Americans.
So, to see all of the work done by civil rights advocates to ensure fairness, to ensure equity in our criminal justice system, to see it all
rolled back by this administration is a slap in the face. It is insulting to people who fought so hard to have some of these adjustments, and to see
some of these investigations take place.
Breonna Taylor's innocent, very innocent young woman who was shot and killed by police in a botched raid. We've seen the outpouring of support
for her and her family. And now to have this Justice Department go in and essentially side with the defense attorneys for this police or former
police officer is insulting to civil rights advocates all over the world.
MACFARLANE: Indeed. Areva Martin, important to have your perspective on this. Thank you.
Okay. Still to come, Italy takes on England in the Women's Euro 2025.
[15:50:02]
We'll have the latest action in a live report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Welcome back.
An amazing first half between Italy and England in the Women's Euro 2025. They are vying to see who makes it to Sunday's final. England has been
favored to win, but Italy has now scored 33 minutes in during its first semifinal appearance in 28 years. Just three years ago, women in Italy were
finally allowed to turn pro. So, let's go straight out to our Don Riddell.
Don, I'm watching the second half on the screen to --oh, no, we're at half time, aren't we? Just to the right of me. A bit of a shock for England then
at this point.
DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Christina, don't tell the viewers that you're distracted and you're watching a game of football while you're supposed to
be at work. But I'm sure you're not the only person doing it.
It has been a really, really entertaining first half, and it's going to be fascinating to see how this game ends. Of course, England, the defending
champions, they came into this tournament with things not exactly going their way. They had a number of players either retire or withdraw from the
squad.
They've shown some defensive frailties during this tournament. They were on the brink of elimination against Sweden in the last round. They were two
nil down in that game and they only came through to win on penalties.
And now, here they are behind again, although they have had the better of the first half, but they're a goal behind.
Italy, absolutely fascinating. As you say, it's been a really, really long time since they've made it to the deep end of this tournament, 28 years. A
lot of that might have to do with the fact that these players weren't allowed to be professional until very, very recently. And perhaps they kind
of got a bit left behind in the process.
But they have had a wonderful tournament. They've been the dark horses. They've had some huge moments, a thrilling victory against Norway right at
the death in their last game. And then of course, they did take the lead against the world champion, Spain.
So they're looking really, really good. Barbara Bonasera scoring that goal midway through the first half. She has made over 100 appearances for this
Italian side. If they come out on the winning side today, this might just be one of the best matches of her career.
But 45 minutes at least still to go, Christina. It's impossible to say how it's going to go. It's still too close to call.
MACFARLANE: Not quite squeaky bum time yet. We'll wait and see. Don, thanks very much.
RIDDELL: All right.
MACFARLANE: So breaking news, the office of former U.S. President Barack Obama is now reacting to current President Donald Trump's accusations
against him.
[15:55:06]
A few hours ago, President Trump accused him of treason, blaming him without evidence for leading an effort to tie him to the Kremlin and
undermine his 2016 presidential campaign. Obamas office says a document issued last week by the Trump administration does not undercut the
conclusion that Russia tried to influence the 2016 U.S. election, calling the allegations bizarre and ridiculous.
And that is a good place to end our show, I think. I'm Christina Macfarlane. This is WHAT WE KNOW now.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. Stay with CNN.
END
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