Return to Transcripts main page

What We Know with Max Foster

W.H.O. Chief: Gaza Facing Man-Made "Mass Starvation"; New Round Of Russia-Ukraine Peace Talks Wraps In Turkey; DNI Gabbard Joins White House Press Briefing, Pushes Baseless 2016 Election Conspiracies; Judge Rejects Bid To Unseal Epstein Grand Jury Transcripts; Trump Administration Unveils AI Action Plan; Trump Strikes Trade Deal With Japan. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 23, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:11]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: The death toll from starvation in Gaza continues to rise as international aid groups ramp up pressure on Israel.

I'm Christina Macfarlane, in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

"Gaza is facing manmade mass starvation due to Israel's blockade," those stark words tonight from the World Health Organization's director general.

The Palestinian health ministry says at least another ten people have died from starvation in the last 24 hours, as desperate crowds of people rushed

to get food for themselves and their families. More than 100 humanitarian groups are calling on Israel to end its blockade immediately and allow the

free flow of aid into Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT PAUL, DIRECTOR, PEACE AND SECURITY, OXFAM AMERICA: Famine is knocking on the doors, is banging down the door right now. What we're

seeing across the Gaza Strip is families are getting by with one nutritiously poor meal every day. Many cases, people are going without

eating. There is enough food at the borders to feed the whole population for two months. And what has come in is being systematically restricted by

the government of Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, let's head out now to Tel Aviv and our correspondent Jeremy Diamond, who is standing by.

And, Jeremy, the images we've seen of starving children in the last 24 hours alone have been utterly harrowing. Yesterday, we had 25 western

nations who signed a letter calling for the war to end. Today, we've got this collection of 100 NGOs issuing a stunning statement. How catastrophic

now is this situation becoming on the ground?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there's no question that right now, the situation in Gaza is about as bad as it ever

has been.

And that's from talking to people on the ground, and also just looking at the statistics that we have seen come out over the last 48 hours. I mean,

we are talking about 25 people who have died from starvation in just the last two days alone. I can't recall a period of time during this war when

we have seen that kind of number over that period of time, and it is just a sign of how much worse things could possibly get, because we know that

there are many others who are currently hospitalized, being treated for malnutrition, people who are going days at a time without a meal and, of

course, they could join the ranks of those who have died from malnutrition, which is now a number that is at 111 since the beginning of this war.

And indeed, the majority of those who are dying of malnutrition are indeed children. And this is why we are seeing these urgent warnings now coming

from humanitarian aid organizations. The director of Oxfam, saying that famine is banging down the door inside the Gaza Strip, more than 100

organizations making clear that Israel is to blame for this current humanitarian crisis, accusing Israel of restricting aid into Gaza, of

making it difficult to distribute that aid within the Gaza Strip. And they are calling on the Israeli government to open the floodgates to allow every

single land crossing into Gaza to open, and for aid trucks to be able to flow in.

Now, the Israeli government, for its part, has said that it is working to improve conditions in Gaza. They pointed to some steps they've taken,

including opening that crossing into the northern part of the Gaza Strip. And they also point to the fact that there are some 950 humanitarian aid

trucks, according to the Israeli military, that are sitting on the Gaza side of that Kerem Shalom crossing in southern Gaza, waiting for the U.N.

to come pick them up.

And now, the U.N. doesn't deny that that's the case. But they say that it's not because of a lack of willpower or desire to pick up those trucks of

aid. It's because of how dangerous the conditions in Gaza have become, because they say the Israelis have not facilitated enough safe routes to be

able to go and pick up those trucks and to be able to distribute them in Gaza. It's because they say the Israeli military is consistently

prioritizing its military operations over the flow of humanitarian aid, to be able to stem this disastrous humanitarian crisis that is currently

unfolding in Gaza.

We've also heard from western nations, traditional allies of Israel like France, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and many others who are also

saying that it is this manmade crisis that is born out of Israeli policies and actions that is resulting in these conditions on the ground.

[15:05:01]

You know, we are seeing some efforts by the Israelis now. It would seem, as we often do at the 11th hour of these points of absolute crisis, to try and

alleviate the situation. But it seems that ultimately, the only thing that will truly change Israeli policies is if there's a ceasefire in Gaza. And

that would require the Israelis to allow unlimited amounts of aid to flow in.

MACFARLANE: All right. Jeremy, for now, we appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, face to face for a third time, the latest Russia-Ukraine peace talks have wrapped up in Turkey. Delegates from Moscow and Kyiv flew in for a

third round of negotiations in Istanbul. The Kremlin had said it wasn't expecting much in terms of a breakthrough. Yet it's important to note the

previous talks have helped the exchange of thousands of prisoners of war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The release of our people from Russian captivity must continue, and it's exactly right

now that the necessary procedures for a new exchange have already begun. The task is to work towards a ceasefire. This is what the world is urging

Russia to do. The task is to work on organizing a leaders meeting. This is something that would bring us closer to peace. Ukraine has never wanted

this war, and it is Russia that must end this war that it started itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Let's get the view from Moscow with CNN's Matthew Chance joining us.

Matthew, I understand that meeting actually only just wrapped, I believe, in the last hour or so, expectations were obviously low for this, but what

came out of it?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, look, these are important talks from a technical point of view because, you

know, when two countries like Ukraine and Russia are fighting each other, there's lots of logistical agreements that have to be undertaken about how

to hand back prisoners of war, for example, how to transfer bodies of people who've been killed in battle for burial on their -- on their -- in

their home countries. And so, that's very much been sort of the positives that have come out of this third meeting in Istanbul between the two sides.

In fact, the Russian news agency TASS is saying that the two countries have agreed to exchange more prisoners and to transfer more bombs, more dead

bodies to each other. Theres also been a sort of briefly watching before I came to talk to you here on television. The head of the Russian delegation,

speaking about other proposals that Russia has made, for instance, setting up working groups to discuss political matters, humanitarian matters and

military matters. Ukraine, he says the other side are considering that.

He also mentioned that Ukraine has raised the possibility of a short ceasefire, either 24 hours or 48 hours, to allow medical teams to go into

those frontline areas in eastern Ukraine where it's extremely dangerous, of course, and retrieve some of the some of the bodies, some of the corpses,

so that they can ultimately be repatriated to whichever country they're from.

And so some progress. But the Russians have made it absolutely clear that on the key issues about how to end this conflict in Ukraine, the two sides

are still a long way apart. And this short negotiation in Istanbul does not appear to have sort of bridged the gaping divide between the two countries

about how to bring a lasting peace in Ukraine.

And so, unfortunately, and until this, you know, that's going to have to wait until this sort of 50-day window that President Trump has sort of

announced before there's a deal before the United States steps in and takes action before we can see what the U.S. eventually does and whether that

will provide an impetus to finally bring an end to this brutality in Ukraine -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: Incremental developments, but important nonetheless.

Matthew Chance there from Moscow, thank you.

Now, the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, is now pushing baseless 2016 election conspiracies. This just one day after President

Trump accused former President Barack Obama of treason.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: When you look at the intent behind creating a fake manufactured intelligence document that

directly contradicts multiple assessments that were created by the intelligence community, the expressed intent and what followed afterward

can only be described as a years-long coup and a treasonous conspiracy against the American people, our republic, and an attempt to undermine

president Trump's administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, critics say President Trump is going after his predecessor in an attempt to take the spotlight off the Jeffrey Epstein

scandal.

Meanwhile, a U.S. judge has just rejected a request to unseal grand jury documents on the Epstein investigation. That request was made by the

Department of Justice. The late financier and convicted sex offender was previously investigated by police in south Florida.

[15:10:01]

This is the first ruling in an attempt by the Trump administration to release more information on the case.

Stephen Collinson is joining us now live from Washington.

And, Stephen, let's start with this denial by the federal judge, because on the face of it, it sort of stymies the Trump administration's efforts to

quell the storm, to get the information out there about the about Epstein. But could it also, in fact, help the administration because it was never

clear in the first place that this was what they wanted to do? How will the White House be viewing this?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, that's a very good point. The White House can now say, well, we tried to introduce this

information into the public record, and we were stopped by a judge.

This is not a surprising decision because grand jury testimony contains details of witnesses, potentially victims, sensitive testimony that you

might expect in this kind of sex trafficking case. So, it was never expected, really, that a judge would agree this quickly to release all this

information. And as you say, this may allow the White House to try to placate some of the anger in President Trump's base about the fact that the

administration has not released these files publicly.

So, it was always a bit of a political maneuver. And although I expect this will continue to go up through the courts, the White House now has some at

least cover on this. I think politically.

MACFARLANE: We have as well in the last 24 hours had new revelations about President Trump's connection to Epstein, CNN reporting that that photo of

Epstein attending Donald Trump's wedding, this, of course, coming after "The Wall Street Journals" letter.

How much longer do you think Trump's MAGA base will continue to chase this, as it seemingly is becoming more and more incriminating for Trump?

COLLINSON: Yeah, and after "The Wall Street Journal" report was released last week, this is about supposedly a cartoon that Trump drew for Epstein

on his birthday, which the president, we should say, has denied. It did seem like elements of the MAGA media machine were now coalescing behind the

president. Now they had the opportunity to argue, well, it's all the fake news that's dragging this up.

The problem, I think, is that Trump himself, with his angry fulmination about this issue, keeps giving it new oxygen. If he didn't talk about it at

all, perhaps it might indeed go away. But there are elements of the media machine, the conservative media machine, and I don't believe it's at all

representative of all of Trump's voters for whom this is an issue. And it's something that they can get them eyeballs, and it's something that they can

monetize.

So, I think they do have an incentive to keep it going. It's going to be very interesting to see, as lawmakers go back to their districts for the

summer and they hold their town hall meetings, whether they're getting calls from authentic Trump voters that they really want them to pursue

this. I think the White House is hoping that over the month of August, you know, during the long summer, this might actually fade away.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. Well, that was obviously the move from Congress yesterday and the hope from Congress, I guess that that would happen. And

we had the director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, as I mentioned, coming out just yesterday after that accusation of treason, to

once again push these baseless 2016 election conspiracies with no new information, it has to be said.

So, I guess we can just assume this is a continuation of the diversion, the distraction tactic that we will expect to see more of.

COLLINSON: Yeah, I think so. It's clearly designed to fill conservative media with topics other than what they have been talking about, which is

the Epstein saga. The difference here, though, I think, and this is what makes it a little bit more sinister, is that Gabbard has referred this

matter to the Justice Department to consider whether there should be any criminal charges in this matter, even though if you read the evidence,

supposed evidence that she's declassified today, it doesn't seem to contradict much of what the Obama administration was actually saying. She's

arguing that since there wasn't a successful hacking of election machines by Russia in 2016, there was therefore no election interference.

Well, if you read what the Obama administration said after that election, before Trump took office, it said also that there was no hacking of

American election machines by Russian intelligence, but it did mention other meddling. For example, the release of Democratic emails.

So, yeah, this is a distraction, but I think is getting more serious and sinister by the day.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, it certainly seems that way.

Stephen Collinson, appreciate your analysis. Thank you.

COLLINSON: Thanks.

MACFARLANE: The Trump administration is unveiling a new action plan on artificial intelligence. Their goal is to cement the U.S. as a global

leader in the tech world. The plan looks to scale back A.I. regulation with a MAGA-friendly option that will work to eliminate what they see as

political bias. Critics say the administration is not prioritizing major concerns with A.I. and such as future job losses or children's interactions

on chatbots.

So, let's go straight to Clare Duffy.

Clare, I guess this is also about remaining competitive and trying to keep ahead of China in the A.I. race.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah, Christina, that is really at the heart of this plan. They want to make sure that the U.S. is the dominant

player in the world in the A.I. space. As we enter this new A.I. era.

So, this A.I. action plan has three main pillars. I think we can bring them up on screen here. They are accelerating A.I. innovation by pulling back on

what White House officials have called bureaucratic red tape, affecting the industry, building more A.I. infrastructure, things like data centers and

power facilities, and then making American technology the global standard by making it easier for foreign innovations to be built on top of American

hardware and software.

Another interesting piece of this that you mentioned is this provision that is going to push federal agencies to not be buying, contracting technology

companies that have bias built into their A.I. models. Now, it's not exactly clear what that means, how that will be sort of manifest by these

federal contracts within these federal contracts, I should say. But it shows sort of the priorities here in terms of what the White House is

looking for as these A.I. models are built out.

And, look, this is something that I think Silicon Valley is going to be very happy to hear. There has been this debate that you mentioned on how do

we prioritize A.I. safety versus growth in this industry, and it really does seem like the White House is coming down on the side of growth being

their top priority, Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. One who is not happy, though, in Silicon Valley is OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, who just this week was warning about the dangers of

deregulation and the speed of doing that.

DUFFY: Well, it's interesting because OpenAI has actually, on one hand, called for the government to pull back on regulations in particular to

prioritize maybe one federal regulation over a patchwork of state regulations. But at the same time, he is warning of some of the dangers of

artificial intelligence technology.

In particular, he warns that we could be on the brink of an A.I. fraud crisis because A.I. has gotten so good at impersonating people's voices, it

is increasingly capable of impersonating people on video, making it look like you're talking to one person when you're really talking to somebody

else.

And he warned the leaders of big U.S. financial institutions that it is crazy that some banks are still using voice authentication to allow people

to move large sums of money around, because A.I. has just gotten too good at impersonating people, he said. This is something that the world is

really going to need to grapple with, but it's interesting when you take that warning with the fact that his and other Silicon Valley companies have

asked the White House to lessen regulations so that they can grow faster, it does seem like the message from the tech companies is address these

problems by letting us build even more technology, rather than by building guardrails around our technology.

DUFFY: Yeah, it's a conundrum, isn't it? Chicken and egg. But it doesn't feel like you can have both at the same time.

Clare, thanks for breaking it down for us.

Now, the U.S. has announced a trade deal with Japan. Still ahead, we'll tell you the terms of the deal. Plus, the market reaction to the

announcement.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:56]

MACFARLANE: Donald Trump unveiling a new U.S. trade agreement with Japan just days before steep tariffs are set to kick in. The U.S. president says

Japan will now pay reciprocal tariffs on 15 percent and invest $550 billion in the U.S., creating hundreds of thousands of jobs.

That trade agreement between Tokyo and Washington is already having a positive impact on Japan's auto industry. The Nikkei closed up about 3.5

percent. Thats due in part to a surge in shares of Japanese automakers. Shares of Toyota surged by 14 percent.

So, what we want to know is who got the better deal, the U.S. or Japan?

Joining me now is Eswar Prasad. He's a senior fellow with the Brookings Institution.

Great to have you with us.

I don't want to preempt your answer here, but I think when you consider that Japan are now worse off than the 10 percent levy they were paying

before, it's a complex question. Who do you think got the better deal?

ESWAR PRASAD, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: It certainly seems like the Trump administration got the U.S. a bit of a win here. Because

what has happened is that you're going to end up in a regime where American car manufacturers are going to be, to some extent protected from Japanese

competition.

But Japan hasn't given -- and Japan is giving the U.S. access to its markets for cars, rice and so on. And it doesn't look like the Trump

administration gave up very much. Japan is also, as you pointed out, agreed to invest in the U.S. but for Japan, it is a partial win because one thing

that was clouding economic prospects for Japan was the prospect of 25 percent tariffs on its imports to the U.S., and certainly 15 percent is

better than 25 percent. But more importantly, this takes away some of the uncertainty surrounding Japanese exports to the U.S. and certainly Japan at

a time of low growth and low domestic demand needs the U.S. market.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, but it turns out, isn't it, that that 25 percent was just a threat all along? I mean, is this evidence that Trump's aggressive

approach is getting results?

PRASAD: If one were to view these agreements that seem to be coming into focus and what tariffs are being applied on U.S. imports from the rest of

the world versus U.S. exports to the rest of the world, it certainly sounds like Trump and his team are winning. But the big question still remains

whether it's going to deliver, you know, as many jobs as Trump says it's going to deliver to the U.S. and also about who is paying these tariffs,

all the evidence so far suggests that foreign manufacturers are not really cutting prices in order to account for the tariffs. It's American importers

and perhaps even American consumers who are going to be paying the prices.

So yes, a win. If you look at the outcome in terms of tariffs, but certainly not a clear win for U.S. consumers or businesses.

MACFARLANE: That's a very good point, because I think the broader picture of the economy in the U.S. is concerning. The U.S. dollar is continuing to

sink. The economy is stagnant.

[15:25:00]

But look, we have a dozen other tariff decisions still to come, deals to be set, most notably Europe and China, of course. Is the Japan deal perhaps an

indication that Trump may not be willing to push his biggest trading partners as far as he claims.

PRASAD: Certainly not as far. And as you mentioned earlier, we started off with Trump making threats of very high levels of tariffs. Now, it's worth

considering the context that America's trading partners face. Most of them, unlike the U.S. economy, which has been powering along, have not been doing

great.

If you look at Europe, Japan, the United Kingdom, and most of the countries, they are quite reliant on exports. Their domestic demand is not

very strong. They're not growing very strongly. So, at some level they are very keen to come to an agreement with the U.S., which remains a very

important market.

On the other side is China, of course, and China has a lot of excess capacity that it has built up. So many countries around the world need

exports, and they recognize that they don't want to open their markets to Chinese exports. And at the same time, they want to maintain access to the

U.S. markets.

So, Trump seems to be playing it relatively well.

MACFARLANE: Okay. Well, we will continue to watch this and see if that situation stays as it is.

Eswar Prasad, we appreciate you being with us. Thank you.

PRASAD: I appreciate it.

MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come on the brink of famine in Gaza, a global call for action as the hunger crisis there widens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: In Gaza, humanitarian conditions are growing more dire by the hour as international aid groups warn of a widening hunger crisis.

[15:30:05]

At least ten people have died from malnutrition in Gaza in just the past day, according to the Palestinian health ministry. So many right now say

they are in a daily struggle to survive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GHADA AL-FAYOUMI, PALESTINIAN MOTHER OF SEVEN (through translator): You can't get any morsel of food, it is non-existent. Here from the morning,

they keep drinking water. We spend our days, our time just drinking water.

YASSER SAADA, PALESTINIAN (through translator): I started losing the ability to walk. Losing the ability to move.

IBRAHIM AL-NAJJAR, DISPLACED PALESTINIAN FROM JABALYA (through translator): That's right, it has been four days since I have eaten and I can't stand.

Look at my hands shaking. We can't stand it. My son is crying telling me, I want to eat, dad, I want to eat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: A number of aid groups say there's enough food to feed Gaza's entire population for the next few months, but it's sitting on the Gaza

border due to Israel's blockade. Israel's president is dismissing those claims and says his country is providing humanitarian aid, according to

international law.

Well, Sam Rose is the acting director of UNRWA affairs in Gaza, and he joins me now.

And, Sam, I mean, our reporting, the statistics are speaking for itself here when it comes to the number of people starving to death at the hands

of the Israeli government siege. And what we're hearing now is that doctors, journalists and aid workers are becoming unable to function as

they, too are dying of starvation.

Tell us about the situation for UNRWA and for your staff.

SAM ROSE, ACTING DIRECTOR, UNRWA GAZA: Yeah. Thanks for having me on. The situation is absolutely horrific for everyone in Gaza, including those

whose job it is, whose mission it is to serve the population. I speak to my colleagues every single day. I speak to community members every single day,

and it's harrowing and it's heartbreaking and it's unforgivable what they are going through.

As your -- as your -- your earlier speaker said at the top, I mean, our staff are collapsing in the office, that they're fainting due to lack of

food, due to lack of water. Those who are able to eat are only eating one meal a day, one meal every couple of days. Their entire day, their entire

life is focused around not dying and finding food.

And this is an entirely preventable situation. My organization, UNRWA, is banned by Israel from bringing supplies into Gaza. We have enough food

outside of Gaza, kilometers away, to feed the entire population for three months. That is what I'd say to Prime Minister Netanyahu is what

international law is saying should happen, that that aid needs to come in and we need to be able to distribute it over an already extremely

catastrophic situation is just getting worse in front of our very eyes.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, enough to feed the entirety of Gaza for three months. A rebuttal to the Israeli president dismissing those claims just earlier

today.

And when you hear the denials from Israel about the food shortages, but also from the United States, the U.S. State Department, too, I just want

you to have a listen to what U.S. State Department spokesperson said a few hours ago here on CNN about the Gaza humanitarian fund aid distribution

system. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY BRUCE, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPEROSN: The fact is, Israel and the un, your report noted, had had a convoy move in within the last few

days, which was also taken. And where there was also violence, with 30 people being killed around a U.N. convoy. What the Gaza Humanitarian

Foundation has done, when we say if we're satisfied, 80 plus million meals distributed is a remarkable feat. Something said no -- things, something

that people said could not occur. And it has worked.

Is it a horrible dynamic on the ground in Gaza? Yes, it's a war zone that is run by and terrorized by a terrorist group, and that is what has to

change. And that's what we're working on. In the meantime, getting food in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: That was Tammy Bruce, Sam, laying the blame here almost solely on Hamas, saying that 80 million meals have been distributed by the GHF.

And that it was a, quote, remarkable feat. What do you say to that?

ROSE: I mean, I don't know where they're coming from. I find it hard to believe that rational people can actually believe things such as that.

Eighty million meals over the course of 60 days is not what -- what Gaza needs. Let's be perfectly honest. Almost a thousand people have been killed

in and around these aid sites.

Let's for once put the civilians of Gaza at the center of this. The million children, the million women who are either dying or seeing their family

members starve and waste away in front of their eyes.

[15:35:04]

Let's not get into a back and forth, a blame game, questioning different peoples realities. Let the aid that's outside of the Gaza Strip get into

Gaza and let us distribute it. That is clearly what needs to happen. Let us please put the people of Gaza, the civilians of Gaza, at the center of

this. And if we don't, we'll be haunted by this for generations in terms of what is already playing out in front of us.

It's absolutely devastating and harrowing to hear claims such as this when we can see from the images, from the testimonies, from the video clips, and

there'll be worse tomorrow. We can see what's happening in front of our eyes. We don't need these counter realities telling us something different,

because that is not the reality of the situation for Gazans right now, I'm afraid.

MACFARLANE: And, Sam, political will is needed, and it does appear to be sorely lacking in this moment. If governments, if those in power do not act

now, today. What do you anticipate a month from now?

ROSE: I mean, shame on them if they do not act today. A month from now, there will be more people killed. There will be more people starved. The

pieces that we have to pick up from this will be more devastating. We're already going to be haunted for years by this, let's make no mistake. And

if the world and you know, when presented with this, these facts, these evidence isn't able to act, then, then it also has massive ramifications

for humanitarian action and for international legal frameworks around the world if we cannot be seen to be acting in the best interests of civilians

who are suffering beyond belief.

So, there's human impact. Theres psychological impact, and there is longer term impact in terms of what this means for the world's ability to look at

the population of Gaza in the eye and say, we did everything we could to save you.

MACFARLANE: All right. Sam Rose, acting director of UNRWA affairs in Gaza, thank you so much for being with us.

ROSE: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: The judge in the Idaho student murders trial says Bryan Kohberger is, quote, a faceless coward. Judge Steven Hippler also says

their grisly deaths were an act of unspeakable evil. He made those comments before handing down a sentence of life in prison to Kohberger.

Joining us for more on the court is CNN's Veronica Miracle.

This whole case, Veronica, has been a haunting, horrific time for the families involved. And they were in court today.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They were. And it was such a heavy day and it was two and a half years in the making. This conclusion that

really not just impacted the families, but the greater community of Moscow and really the state of Idaho. A lot of people that showed up today to see

these court proceedings.

So, they came from all over Idaho to see and to support those victims' families. We just heard from the investigators and prosecutors and the team

that was behind making sure that Kohberger got behind bars, and they revealed some new information. They did talk about how they still have not

found that murder weapon, but they searched relentlessly.

They did soil samples. They went to every single location that they could possibly think that Kohberger was at, based on cell phone tower

information, and they dug up in the water. They dug up soil and they couldn't find anything. They could also never find any bloodstained

clothing. So that was never revealed. They also still -- they don't know a motive. They could never find that out. They could never figure that out.

Now, in court, it was incredibly emotional. As family member after family member got to say their piece, got to speak to Kohberger directly and tell

him how he has brutalized their lives and how everything has fallen apart since those murders have happened.

Now there was a range of emotion. There was grief, there was forgiveness, and there was a lot of rage. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE GONCALVES, FATHER OF VICTIM KAYLEE GONCALVES: Today, you've lost control. Today, we are here to prove to the world that you pick the wrong

families the wrong state, the wrong police officers. The wrong community. You tried to break our community apart. You tried to plant fear. You tried

to divide us. You failed. Instead, your actions have united everyone in their disgust for you.

RANDY DAVIS, STEPFATHER OF XANA KERNODLE: You're going to go to hell. I know people believe in other stuff. You're evil. There's no place for you

in heaven. You took our children.

[15:40:02]

You are going to suffer, man.

KRISTI GONCALVES, KAYLEE GONCALVES' MOTHER: A dead killer doesn't kill again. So, while I'm disappointed the firing squad won't get to take their

shots at you, I'm confident that the men in prison will have their way with you in more ways than one. You will finally get what you wanted. Physical

touch.

ALIVEA GONCALVES, OLDER SISTER OF VICTIM KAYLEE GONCALVES: You want the truth. Here's the one you'll hate the most. If you hadn't attacked them in

their sleep in the middle of the night like a pedophile, Kaylee would have kicked your (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MIRACLE: And it wasn't just the victims' families that really went after Bryan Kohberger. The judge himself called him a faceless coward. And he

talked about how no parent should ever have to bury their child, and that this is the greatest tragedy that can be inflicted. But by bringing this

case to a close, then he also hopes that Bryan Kohberger 15 minutes of fame will also come to a close. He will now spend the rest of his life in prison

and not see the light of day.

Back to you, Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. Understandable rage. Honestly, in the face of such a horrendous murder.

Veronica, we appreciate you being with us from the courthouse. Thank you.

And we'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: The rankings are out for the world's most powerful passports and three Asian nations are topping the list.

According to the Henley Passport Index, Singapore once again ranked number one, while South Korea moved up to join Japan in the number two spot. The

U.K., meanwhile, continued its downward trend, coming in at number six and the U.S. dropped to its lowest level ever, landing in 10th place.

So, what we don't know -- why is the U.S. slipping in the passport ranks.

To answer that, we're joined by Richard Quest, anchor of "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS".

[15:45:01]

And have a pretty good idea, Richard. But I'd rather you tell me why.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: It's all -- it's not. I mean, it's not about -- this ranking list is all about visa-free. How easy is it

to travel. If you have this passport? How many barriers and restrictions are there? Is this a desirable passport in a sense, for travelers, for

citizens to have.

And what it shows, of course, is that there are greater restrictions coming in as a result of, for example, ESTA. There's restrictions coming in in

terms of openness of travel, and the U.S. has now fallen down further, as you say, down the rankings. The U.K. also now has some more impediments.

By the way, let's be clear about this. We are still talking about passports that are highly desirable and that are -- have very few restrictions

overall. But the E.U. is coming in with its own new ESTA scheme. The U.K. has just introduced an ESTA scheme for people coming into the U.K. and now

you see the U.S. is dropping.

Can we make a linkage, if you will, to immigration policies of the Trump administration? Yes, you probably can at some level say that there is a

direct relation between one and the other.

MACFARLANE: But how much does any of this really matter? Richard, this Henley passport index. I mean, is this a big thing in the -- in the travel

world, the travel industry, you know, making money? I mean, does it -- do people take notice of this?

QUEST: No, it's the short answer in a sense. And the reason I say it in such blunt terms, there are there are passports that are considered to be

more desirable to hold if you are a citizen. Yes.

And they can be for investment reasons. They can be easy to get. They can be because of the way in which -- let's take, for example, the way Donald

Trump has introducing the golden green card, which will be allowed if you invest so much money.

So, there are certainly citizenships that give greater access and availability to travel. And if you were that minded, yes, you would be

studying the Henley index with great deliberation and you would be asking your immigration advisor how much you need to invest in which country to

get which passport. And there are people who go around the world and do that.

But for the average person, no, it's not a jot of difference. You've got your passport, you've got where you are, learn and live with it.

MACFARLANE: Richard, while I have you, we're getting some breaking news coming in. You're probably getting it in your ear, too, that the Dow Jones

is nearing record highs --

QUEST: Yeah.

MACFARLANE: -- in the closing moments of trade.

QUEST: Yeah. Interesting. This is right. Wine me up. Set me off and I'll. And I'll head off in the direction.

I think, look, do you see that nice little spike you can see going whoops. Up it goes. Thats all to do with trade talks. Thats the Japan trade talks.

It's all the way.

There is a feeling in the market now that as two things as the U.S. does more deals, whether they're good or bad deals or just smoke and mirrors,

we'll discuss on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS".

But as the deals are done, so the prospect of really horrible tariffs recedes, and we now sort of are getting a really good idea that the general

tariff rate will be somewhere between 12 and 18 percent, 15 percent seems to be sort of the number that everybody's going with at the moment.

And that sort of number, it's still much higher than it ever was before. That's something like 80 or 90 years. But it's manageable. It's livable,

and it's most countries can cope with it.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And a reflection of the relief, I think today all around --

QUEST: Yeah, absolutely.

MACFARLANE: -- absolutely seeing that.

Richard, appreciate you. Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: Well, it's just gone half time in the second semifinal at the Women's Euros in Switzerland. Will it be Germany or Spain who advance to

Sunday's final? We'll find out, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:40]

MACFARLANE: Fans were on the edge of their seats during the Women's Euros semifinal between England and Italy Tuesday.

Once again, the lionesses came incredibly close to elimination as Italy were up one nil deep into injury time. Thats until the reigning champions

pulled off another stunning comeback, advancing to Sunday's final against Germany or Spain.

And right now, it is half time in the game between these two, where it is currently goalless.

Don Riddell is joining us now.

And, Don, I hesitate to make any predictions because we were, of course, at nil-nil this time yesterday night when we were speaking during that England

game following, and then afterwards we saw that miraculous comeback. But who of the two sides in this semifinal have been looking stronger thus far?

DON RIDDELL, CNN WORLD SPORT: Well, I would say it's all changed in the last few minutes. Literally the half time whistle has just blown and,

Christina, and I would say that Germany had the better chances, although Spain had much more of the ball and the possession, and they have just been

incredibly patient, just kind of waiting for their opportunity. And just before half time, they had a flurry of opportunities, 2 or 3 chances in the

last few minutes, including hitting the post.

Germany's goalie Ann-Katrin Berger who's been arguably the goalkeeper of the tournament, she made the save of the tournament in their last match,

their quarterfinal win. She made a good save towards the end of this half, but at this point, it is -- it is on a knife edge. It is goalless. It is

too close to call.

But I suppose the smart money would be on Spain. But we will see.

Whatever happens. England are awaiting the winner of these two in the final, and you were just showing some of the highlights of that England

game yesterday. I mean, that ended up being an absolute classic. It really did look as though England were going out yesterday. They were a goal down

against Italy.

They were deep, deep into injury time. At the end of the 90 minutes, that's when they got an equalizer. Then there was extra time. It looked like it

was going to penalties and England got a penalty themselves right at the end, avoiding the need for it to be settled in a shootout.

Chloe Kelly scored that spot kick on the rebound, so England are in the final and whoever they play next, it's going to seem like it's very

familiar.

They beat Germany in the euro final three years ago. They lost to Spain in the World Cup Final more recently. So whichever way it goes, I think it's

going to be a classic final. We just don't know who it's going to be just yet.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, history on the line. I guess either way, whether its Germany, whether it's Spain. Spain, of course, the world champions, as you

say, but haven't ever come this far in a European championship, I don't think.

RIDDELL: No, no. Absolutely right. No. And they've never won the Euros. And they're up against a team in Germany who've won it eight times before.

So, I mean, Spain, no question. They -- they are the team of the moment. What they did in the World Cup was amazing. Their players, you know, two of

them have won the last four Ballon d'Or Awards between them.

So, Spain are the team to beat, but Germany are going to have to beat them if they want to go to the final.

MACFARLANE: I think my -- I could handle another late finish in the final by England. Let's hope they've got it out of their system by now.

Don, appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, at the age of 45, Venus Williams is a winner again. Williams defeated Peyton Stearns in straight sets at the tournament in Washington, D.C. Who

saw this? It was wonderful. This makes her the first woman aged 45 or over, to win a WTA match in more than 20 years.

Afterwards, Williams couldn't hide her delight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VENUS WILLIAMS, 7-TIME SINGLES MAJOR CHAMPION: It's just about putting it all together, right? You can still play a good match and lose the match.

So, I wanted to play a good match and win the match. I had to come back for the insurance because they informed me earlier this year I'm on COBRA. So,

I was like, I got to get my benefits. I started training.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Williams won seven single majors during a glittering career. She also won 14 doubles majors alongside her sister Serena. And who knows,

maybe Serena is watching and fancies a try herself. One can dream.

All right. That is up. That's it for us now on WHAT WE KNOW. I'm Christina Macfarlane

Quest is up next after the break. Stay with us.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS