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What We Know with Max Foster

Starmer: UK Could Recognize Palestinian State; Trump: Employees Epstein Poached From Him Were Young Women; Russia Ramps Up Attacks On Ukraine Amid Trump's Deadline; New York Police Still Searching For Motive After Deadly Shooting. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 29, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:24]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: The United Kingdom could soon recognize Palestinian statehood.

I'm Christina Macfarlane in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer says the terrible suffering in Gaza must end, announcing a dramatic new plan to turn up the pressure on Israel.

Mr. Starmer says images of starving children in Gaza will, quote, stay with us for a lifetime, slamming what he called a catastrophic failure of aid.

He says his government will recognize a Palestinian state unless Israel meets certain conditions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This is the moment to act. So today, as part of this process towards peace, I can confirm the U.K. will

recognize the state of Palestine by the United Nations General Assembly in September, unless the Israeli government takes substantive steps to end the

appalling situation in Gaza, agree to a ceasefire and commit to a long term sustainable peace, reviving the prospect of a two state solution. And this

includes allowing the U.N. to restart the supply of aid and making clear that there will be no annexations in the West Bank.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Meanwhile, Gaza's health ministry says the death toll from the war has now surpassed 60,000 people, nearly a third of them are children.

Aid groups warn many more Palestinians could die if Gaza isn't flooded with aid now. Today, a U.N.-backed food security initiative said the worst case

scenario famine is unfolding in Gaza. It's not a formal declaration of famine, but the World Food Program says waiting for an official

confirmation to provide large scale aid would be unconscionable.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond has more now from Tel Aviv.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, humanitarian aid is beginning to surge into the Gaza strip. Two hundred trucks of aid were

distributed in Gaza on Monday. That's double the amount that was distributed just the day before. We've seen dozens of these airdrops

happening over the skies of Gaza as well, stressing the urgency of the situation.

But the reality on the ground is that starvation is not a switch that can be turned on and off and unfortunately, doctors and humanitarians on the

ground say that more Palestinians are likely to still continue to die in the days ahead as a result of malnutrition.

And now, we have this grave warning coming from the IPC, which is the leading U.N.-backed global authority on food security, which says that the,

quote, worst case scenario of famine is now unfolding in Gaza.

They are predicting widespread deaths if more action is not taken to rapidly alleviate the humanitarian situation. They point to the fact that

the situation in Gaza has dramatically worsened recently, with access to food plummeting and 20,000 children being admitted for treatment for acute

malnutrition between April and mid-July.

And so, the 200 trucks of aid that we are seeing, while it certainly represents an increase from the levels that we were at before, it's far

short of the 500, 600 trucks a day of aid that humanitarian aid officials say are needed to alleviate the situation in Gaza. And indeed, we are

continuing to see deaths as a result of starvation and malnutrition still happening in the Gaza Strip.

Now, as all of this is happening, the United Kingdom is now becoming the latest country to say that it will recognize a Palestinian state. The

British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer making this announcement, certainly ruffling the feathers of Israeli officials. But what's interesting about

what the United Kingdom has done here is that they are putting conditions to this recognition, saying that they will only move forward with

recognizing a Palestinian state if Israel doesn't meet a few key conditions.

Those conditions are alleviating dramatically the situation in the Gaza Strip, agreeing to a ceasefire in Gaza and also taking concrete steps

towards a two-state solution. If Israel doesn't reach those conditions by the time of the U.N. General Assembly in September, Prime Minister Starmer

says he will move ahead with recognizing a Palestinian state.

Now, Israeli officials obviously pushing back on all of this, expressing outrage at the notion of recognizing a Palestinian state, saying it would

be a reward for Hamas's October 7th attack.

What we've also heard is from the Israeli foreign minister, Gideon Saar, who says that this right now is the pressure that Israel is now facing is

going to harden Hamas's position at the negotiating table and make it more difficult for Israel and Hamas to actually reach that ceasefire that

everyone around the world seems to want.

[15:05:17]

But of course, that pressure that Israel is facing, a direct result of the situation on the ground in Gaza, which was driven by Israeli policies.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Joining me now, U.K. member of parliament, Sir Roger Gale, who cosigned a letter to Keir Starmer last month urging him to recognize

Palestinian statehood.

Sir Roger, thank you very much for joining me on the show this evening.

So, what we've heard today is, is a huge U-turn for the U.K. prime minister and a historic shift for the country. But it comes with conditions that are

unlikely to be met by the Israelis. What is your reaction to what was announced today?

ROGER GALE, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: Well, becoming used to the prime minister's U-turns, but this one has built in wriggle room, doesn't it? The

time to act is now. And when we went to Downing Street to try to deliver our letter, those of us who are privy counselors, I was one of them to say

we wanted the recognition of Palestine. We wanted it then. And what's happening is, yet again, Britain is kicking the can down the road and the

overwhelming priority now has to be, has to be to get aid into Gaza before more people starve to death.

The acts on the 7th of October were quite unacceptable and quite terrible, but the reaction by the government of Israel, not the Israeli people, but

by the government of Israel, is equally unacceptable. To weaponize food, water, medicine is a war crime, and Netanyahu is guilty of that war crime.

And we have to send a message now, now, to say this has gone too far. We are going to recognize Palestine now.

MACFARLANE: I mean, there is a question to be asked as to why should this move to recognize Palestinian statehood be tied to conditions? If you

believe fundamentally in Palestinian statehood, you said just now that there were sort of baked in wiggle room here. Do you believe the U.K.

government is, in essence, here playing both sides, kind of cutting it down the middle?

GALE: Yes, I think yes. Yes, absolutely. They're kicking the can down the road. They're trying to have their cake and eat it. The time for

equivocation is over. We said that those of us who went to downing street said weeks ago recognize Palestine now, no strings, no ifs, no buts. The

solution to the problem in that part of the Middle East is a two-state solution. That means recognize recognizing Palestine.

This is not a reward for Hamas. Hamas is unspeakable. It shouldn't be conflated. Recognition should not be conflated with rewarding Hamas. It is

part of the solution. But we have to send a very clear message to Israel whether we have the support of the United States of America or not, we have

to join with those of a like mind and be on the right side of history and say, we have to do the right thing.

But again, I have to say to you, the absolute priority is to get aid into Gaza before still more people die of starvation, which is what is happening

now.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. I mean, if the U.K. government have done this, as you say, to, you know, give themselves that wriggle room to play both sides,

they must have gained this out. They must know that Israel are not going to agree to any of these terms.

So what diplomatic tools do you think they might use to try and force Israel's hands? And frankly, what tools should they be using?

GALE: The one person in the world who can solve this problem at the stroke of a pen? Is the president of the United States of America, but he is

equivocating. So, if he is not prepared to move to end this death by starvation, which is what it is, its genocide by starvation, if he's not

prepared to move, then those of us who believe in doing the right thing have to do that.

And for the president of the United States to leave the United Kingdom saying, I am going back home to solve more of the world's problems, I'm

sorry, I'm sorry, it has a very hollow ring about it. When he has in his power, in his gift the chance to bring this to an end, to feed the starving

people, the starving children of Gaza. And he ought to be prepared to do it. But if he's not, then we must be.

MACFARLANE: And what should that be?

[15:10:00]

Should that be a move to sanction the one man who currently has an international arrest warrant out against him by the ICC, who's accused of

peddling this war for his own political gain? Should President Netanyahu be sanctioned by the U.K.?

GALE: This is my personal view, and it's not a view of the government of the United Kingdom, and it's not a view of probably of the opposition in

the United -- the official opposition. But my personal view is, yes, absolutely. We should sanction Netanyahu. As far as I'm concerned, he's a

war criminal, but he should be sanctioned as such.

MACFARLANE: Sir Roger Gale, it's -- we appreciate your comments here this evening. And of course, we will look to see how this goes in the coming

weeks ahead. Thank you for your time.

GALE: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: U.S. President Donald Trump says the employees convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, poached from his Mar-a-Lago club were young

women. Mr. Trump added that Epstein hired spa employees from Mr. Trump's property more than once, prompting the pairs falling out. He made the

comments while traveling home from Scotland.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

REPORTER: Were some of the workers that were taken from you, were some of them young women?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Were some of them?

REPORTER: Were some of them young women?

TRUMP: Well, I don't want to say, but everyone knows the people that were taken and it was the concept of taking people that work for me is bad. But

that story has been pretty well out there. And the answer is yes, they were --

REPORTER: What do they?

TRUMP: In the spa.

REPORTER: In the spa?

TRUMP: Yes. The people that worked in the spa.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: The president also said one of those employees might have been Virginia Giuffre, a victim of Epstein, who died by suicide earlier this

year.

CNN's Alayna Treene is joining us now from the White House.

And, Alayna, this was a very pretty stunning remark from the president, but not necessarily something we didn't already know that Giuffre was recruited

by Epstein in 2000 when she was working at Mar-a-Lago. But how strange is it, though, in the context of this, Epstein storm, and after the fact that

Giuffre passed away, committed suicide just a few months ago for him to be speaking out on this?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. I mean, I think what we've seen now over both today and yesterday, I should note, Christina, is that

the president has been far more candid and forthcoming in answering reporters' questions when it relates to Jeffrey Epstein.

I mean, yesterday, when he was at his bilateral press conference standing beside the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, he spoke about this at

length. He said, he kind of went into detail when he was first asked about the falling out he had with Epstein in the early 2000. He said it was over

an inappropriate institute. He alluded to being over Epstein, poaching some of these workers, but he also talked at length about some other things

relating Epstein.

And of course, today pressed on that again by reporters on air force one as he's returning from Scotland. He went even further in saying that, you

know, these might have been young women. Yes, they were. They were from the spa. And again, noting that maybe one of them was Virginia Giuffre, someone

who we know was one of Epstein's most prominent accusers and who did die by suicide earlier this year.

I also want to note that we actually have some reporting, and we reported on this before, as you mentioned, Christina, that it was Ghislaine Maxwell,

Jeffrey Epstein's associate, who was believed to be the one who had recruited and kind of taken Jeffrey from Mar-a-Lago and brought her to work

at Epstein's hotel in Palm Beach. All to say, though, it's remarkable that we are hearing a little bit more from the president because so far, really

his posture and I know the posture of that of the white top White House officials here when I've been asking them questions about this, is they try

to dismiss it, to downplay it, to say that there's more important issues that should be being discussed, that should be getting the media attention

that this Epstein case is getting and really trying to move on from it.

Of course, this has been a better, the better part of a month now that this Epstein story has really dominated not only the news cycle, but a lot of

the attention of many people in the public, including Republicans, not only Republicans, who have been very critical of him publicly, including some of

his most prominent supporters in his MAGA movement, but also Republicans on Capitol Hill who have said that they want not only more answers on this,

but that they've been getting repeated calls from constituents asking for more transparency from the Trump administration on this.

And one thing I would note is we actually did get a development today in one of those efforts by Congress that we've been watching closely, which is

that the House Oversight Committee, they had subpoenaed Ghislaine Maxwell. Again, the associate of Jeffrey Epstein. She's currently serving 20 years

in prison.

They had subpoenaed her to give more answers. And all of this, and we did hear from her lawyers today. They had sent a letter to the oversight

committee saying that they would potentially comply with the subpoena, but they have major conditions. The most, you know, at the top of the list is

that she would be granted Ghislaine Maxwell formal immunity, something we've already heard the committee push back on and saying that's not on the

table.

[15:15:06]

They asked for a number of other things, including that they be provided the questions in advance, something, again, that the committee does not

normally do, if ever. I know many Republicans find something like that inappropriate, and then also that they said that they want the interview to

be scheduled after the Supreme Court considers her petition. She's -- Ghislaine Maxwell is currently petitioning the Supreme Court to overturn

her conviction.

All to say, a lot of developments here. I know a lot of people, again, including Republicans on Capitol Hill, want more answers. It's still very

unclear how this is all going to pan out, Christina, as I know, the Trump administration is still waiting on some of the grand jury testimony or

whether a judge would actually unseal some of that testimony, in addition to learning more about the interview that the Deputy Attorney General Todd

Blanche did over two days last week with Ghislaine Maxwell.

There's been no answers or clarity on what they might have learned from those discussions. So, all of that, of course, still a central focus right

now as the president was abroad and of course, returning home today.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, Epstein still very much front and center.

Alayna Treene there from the White House, thank you.

Now, New York police are sending investigators to Las Vegas as they search for a motive in the city's deadliest shooting in 25 years. A lone gunman

traveled from Las Vegas, where he lived to a Midtown Manhattan tower Monday evening. Authorities say he killed four people before turning the gun on

himself. Among the victims was an off-duty police officer.

Police say the shooter was 27-year-old Shane Devon Tamura. The National Football League offices are on the fifth floor of the building Tamura

attacked. He was -- he had played when he was younger. And in a note found in his pocket, he wrote that he suffered from CTE, a chronic condition

linked to head trauma.

Mayor Eric Adams says investigators do not have enough evidence yet to determine a motive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK CITY: The investigation is continuing. We are sending two teams to Las Vegas, one to execute a search warrant and the

other to look at the two firearms and guns that were recovered. The motive appeared to be connected to the shooters' belief that he was suffering from

CTE, and he was an ex-NFL player. Those items just don't pan out. He never played for the NFL, and so, we're still unraveling this terrible shooting

that took place in the city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: All right. Coming up, U.S. President Donald Trump says Russia has less than two weeks to start talking peace with Ukraine. How Moscow is

responding to Mr. Trump's new deadline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:52]

MACFARLANE: Russia is responding to U.S. President Donald Trump's latest ultimatum to bring about a ceasefire in Ukraine. The Kremlin says it has,

quote, taken note of Trump's decision to cut the ceasefire deadline down to 10 days from today. If the war does not end, the U.S. says it will target

Moscow with harsher economic penalties.

Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelenskyy took to social media thanking Trump for, quote, his focus on saving lives and stopping this horrible war. But so

far, Trump's ultimatums have not fazed Vladimir Putin. Ukrainian officials say at least 17 people are dead and dozens more are injured after Russian

strikes at a prison in Zaporizhzhia overnight.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more on Russia's ramped up attacks on Ukrainian cities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): The space left for Ukraine is shrinking from above, too, lined with fishing lets to protect cars from Russian drone attacks.

This is the road to Kostyantynivka, one of three vital towns in the east Russia is slowly encircling.

Extraordinary low-tech bit of invention here to counter the high-tech problem of drones that have redefined warfare in Ukraine.

If you live here, you still need to get home. And as we see on this Russian drone footage, the holes let Moscow's smarter drone operators in. One even

lies in wait filming the other drone as it strikes.

The town lined with prey. A drone hit this van at dawn. The driver killed. Even if its explosives didn't go off, little has been spared here.

Artillery grinding for months.

Well, something just flew in over our head there. But again when we move around this town, the clearer how more in the pincers it is of Moscow's

summer offensive. But still, these bizarre signs of ordinary life trying to persist.

Tatiana lives on the edge of town and is now carrying her stuff to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't have anywhere to go. I live on the outskirts and went to feed my dog and it's heavy there. Really heavy. Everyone has

left.

WALSH (voice-over): Oddly bustling though, is the central market where you'll notice locals turn away from our camera.

How is it now? OK?

OK, so people here don't want their faces shown sometimes a sign that they're concerned the town may change hands or want simply not to be shown

on television.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you see. Glory to Ukraine.

WALSH: Calm for now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no calm today. They are shooting, of course.

WALSH: OK. She doesn't want to be filmed, either. The same story, really. And now we've just been told that a drone's been spotted which may have

been surveying the area. So we're told we should leave now.

With the drones for every new idea, there's something newer.

Littering the battlefield now, this fiber optic cable, meaning that drones can't be jammed and are instead linked back to their controller through

this tiny, tiny cord that can extend for tens of kilometers.

It is underground where they try to control the skies. Ukrainian commander Vasyl sees many Russians closing in and no new Ukrainians coming to help.

This airstrike, as Ukrainian drone team targeted.

VASYL, 93RD SEPARATE MECHANIZED BRIDAGE: We have a critical shortage of personnel.

[15:25:00]

We hardly get any new recruits, the workload on the troops is very heavy. Ukraine has a lot of people but no one wants to fight.

The war is over for them. The old personnel are left. They are tired and want to be replaced but no one is replacing them because there are no

people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cloud, cloud, fly around it and give me a close-up.

WALSH: They show us one success. This Russian tank covered in protective netting which needed 70 Ukrainian drones to stop it.

Some Ukrainian positions held by just a pair of soldiers isolated. Vasyl said no vehicles able to reach them.

VASYL: We are currently supplying the infantry using drones. As dusk falls, we launch the Vampire of Kazhan. We load 10 kilograms of supplies --

food, ammunition, water, batteries, chargers for radio stations.

WALSH: On the screens, a lone Russian is hit by a drone's grenade but survives and shoots at the next one, throwing his helmet as it flies in. He

again survives but another comes and misses him by inches.

He takes off his armor and waves a shovel. Isolated, relentless agonies for both sides.

VASYL: We are tired. Everyone is tired of this war. And I believe that other countries are also tired of helping us. This war must end. That would

be the best option.

WALSH: Moscow wants that, too. Just its ending is yet uglier still.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kostyantynivka, Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Now, jury deliberations have begun in a trial involving a dentist in Colorado accused of killing his wife by poisoning her with

protein shakes. Prosecutors accused James Craig of several charges, including first degree murder. The 47-year-old is accused of poisoning his

wife Angela, back in 2023. The defense painted the wife as a suicidal and depressed, while prosecutors say James Craig was motivated by money,

trouble and affairs.

CNN's Jean Casarez is joining us now with the latest.

And, Jean, this really has been a shocking and very complex case. Bring us up to speed on the closing arguments we've heard today. And the key charges

that the jury are set to consider.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the key charge, of course, is first degree murder. And this was a very successful dentist in Aurora, Colorado.

He had commercials on television. He had patients that loved him, always had a smile on his face. There he is in the courtroom.

Just minutes ago, the closing arguments ended. They are now deliberating. But what the prosecution is saying is that Angela Craig is innocent. She

did not commit suicide. This was the ultimate betrayal by her husband.

And they went into the fact that there were three reasons why he killed her. Number one, he wanted his freedom. He wanted -- he'd been an adulterer

from almost the day they got married 23 years before that, and she knew what he was doing.

But he always made an excuse. She would believe him. She wanted to stay in her marriage. They had six children, ultimately.

But he wanted to be free. And he knew he couldn't get a divorce from her. So that was one of the motives.

The other motive, they said, is that if there was a divorce, he'd lose 50 percent of everything he had earned. They had earned in the marriage, and

he didn't want to lose that money. And the third reason was that he just wanted to be able to, to live his life the way he wanted to live his life

and did not want her in it.

And so, what they -- what they outlined was the timeline. Prosecutors did about starting on March 6th. She got home. She'd been with her family in

Utah. This was a devoted Mormon family. She got back from Utah, visiting her sisters and going to a conference. And that's when he first bought the

arsenic.

And then on the 6th of march, 2023, he made a protein shake for her, which he always did make her. The morning protein shake, that so many protein

shakes, powders and that that was laced with arsenic. And that's initially when she didn't feel well, I want you to listen to a little bit of the

closing arguments of the prosecution that just concluded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MAURO, PROSECUTOR: March 1st continues the search for the deadly poisons. March 4th, the arsenic comes to his home. March 5th, Angela gets

home, and March 6th, Angela's life changes forever. He starts his day off by making a smoothie, telling her he loves her, and then she gets sick and

she never recovers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: The defense is saying that the blinders were on with the investigators. They didn't test everything. They decided they had their

person. They didn't look farther.

And if you look at Angela's diary and journal through all those years, you can see how she was going deeper and deeper and deeper into her depression.

And she intentionally took her own life.

MACFARLANE: It really is a sad case at its core.

[15:30:01]

Jean Casarez, we appreciate the update. Thank you.

CASAREZ: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: A worst-case scenario of famine. That's how one unbacked group describes the situation in Gaza. We'll hear from the executive director of

an Israeli human rights group, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: U.S. president Donald Trump says he and First Lady Melania have been affected by the images of starving children in Gaza. Images like

the ones we're about to show you. They warn you they are disturbing. Mr. Trump says there's nothing you can say when you see these children other

than the situation is terrible. He has disputed a claim by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that there is no starvation in Gaza. For the

first time, a pair of leading Israeli human rights groups accused Israel of committing what they call genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

The executive director of B'Tselem, Yuli Novak, had this to say about her major claim. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YULI NOVAK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, B-TSELEM: To recognize -- to really fully understand that your country, your collective is actually committing

genocide is a very hard process, mental process and personal process. Not only because it puts us in risk in all kind of risks, that's also true. But

more than that, because it breaks something very internally, very, very basic about who we are and who we think about ourselves and who we thought

we could have be. I have to say, it's not the mainstream of Israeli society today.

[15:35:02]

I say it with a lot of pain. The mainstream of Israeli society today is still as we hear it, from the mainstream media on the street is still

completely -- holding completely this notion that everything we are doing in Gaza has a justification because of October 7th. Once you see it, once

you cross that line, I think everything becomes very, very clear about what you need to do. And in that sense, I hope many other Israelis will follow

and join this struggle to stop the genocide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: So what we don't know is, will Israeli public opinion ever turn against the war effort in Gaza?

Well, joining me now to discuss this is Gideon Levy, columnist for the Israeli newspaper "Haaretz".

And, Gideon, the comments we just heard there by the executive director of B'Tselem actually reflects something that you've been writing about this

week. The fact that Israel are in extreme state of denial, that they have tried to ignore, conceal, avert their gaze from what's going on and blame

Hamas. I would add that we've also seen that happening by U.S. officials, in addition to Israeli officials.

But what is the view more broadly in Israel? Do Israelis accept that their government is in denial and these assertions that there is no starvation in

Gaza?

GIDEON LEVY, COLUMNIST, HAARETZ: Part of the denial is denying the denial. Part of the denial is living in a big lie. And I think the vast majority of

Israelis are still living in a big lie, namely, that what Israel is doing in Gaza is inevitable, that it is about defending ourselves, that it is

about releasing the hostages, that it is about maintaining security for Israel.

And unfortunately, with the collaboration of Israeli media, which is playing a criminal role in this war, hiding everything which is going on in

Gaza. So, with the criminal collaboration of Israeli mainstream media, Israelis continue to live in denial unfortunately so.

MACFARLANE: You will have seen today, Gideon, that we heard from the U.K. prime minister committing to a two-state solution with conditions. Now, it

is a significant U-turn for the government. But what does it say to you that this announcement is being used as a threat to Israel, rather than an

ideological move?

LEVY: This by itself, you touched a very good point here. I mean, I was -- I was really shocked. I mean, is this a punishment for Israel to recognize

the Palestinian state and to promote any kind of political settlement? Yeah, I guess the British prime minister thinks that this is a punishment

for Israel, and Israel perceives it as a punishment.

This could be the biggest blessing the international community could handle to Israel, to help Israel, to get out of being a pariah state. But

unfortunately, those diplomatic steps are right now irrelevant and for sure not enough. It's not time for declarations. It's time for actions because

someone has to stop the genocide in Gaza. And those declarations will not stop it. Only practical measures exactly like with South Africa at its

time, exactly like with Russia, after invading Crimea at its time, we need practical pressure to stop the bloodbath, and then we can start to speak

about political solutions.

But right now, I would expect much more than declarations from the international community.

MACFARLANE: I mean, there is, as you know, a U.N. conference happening in New York co-chaired by France and Saudi Arabia. After Macron made that

statement last week, I take your point that now is not the time to be looking at the big diplomatic picture, but of course, addressing the very

real need on the ground.

But if this is a carrot and stick situation where the two-state solution is being used as a pressure campaign, let's say, by the international

community, what should they be looking to gain from pushing for that in a meaningful way? In essence, I'm saying what tangible, meaningful things

steps can these countries be looking to get out of that push for a two- state solution?

LEVY: We should emphasize the word steps, practical steps. First of all, we have to be sure that the two-state solution is still achievable. I have

my doubts, but let's put aside my opinion because its for sure a minority's opinion.

[15:40:01]

Let's say that the two-state solution is really still visible. The first step that should be taken, the most basic one is freezing the settlements

buildings. I mean, there's nothing more essential than this. If you plan to establish a Palestinian state one day, you have to stop this criminal

project of building settlements on stolen lands and even this, the international community is incapable of convincing Israel or pushing Israel

to do. There is no chance that Israel will stop the settlements project.

So, if it's only hollow declarations without practical steps, then you know we remain in the same place. The only good thing about those diplomatic

conferences and meetings that they give some kind of vision for the day after. But we are so far from the day after.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, I just want to show our viewers, Gideon and you, a tweet that Prime Minister Netanyahu has just put out in response to the Britain's

move. He says Starmer rewards Hamas's monstrous terrorism and punishes its victims.

A jihadist state on Israels border today will threaten Britain tomorrow. Appeasement towards jihadist terrorists always fails. It will fail you,

too. It will not happen.

Look, we always expected there was going to be a strong response. We saw similar to -- when France made that move last week. But the Hamas rationale

that Israel are putting at the door of every accusation against them is a persuasive one to some sectors.

How does the international community sort of get beyond that?

LEVY: Only by anxious, as I said, only by really practical steps. And above all, by pressure, but massive pressure. Nothing will go now through

declarations, because Israel is so far from accepting any kind of solution with the Palestinian people.

You see, Netanyahu sees it as an award to Hamas. The Hamas is the biggest opponent of the two-state solution. What price is it for Hamas, Hamas is

standing for one state between the river and the sea, Palestinian, Islamic state. What a world is it here?

And secondly, we have to ask and keep on asking Netanyahu and all the right wingers, what do you suggest? Apartheid forever, occupation forever,

genocide forever. What do you suggest? What is your alternative? And they don't have any answer.

And we cannot be left without an answer. We need an answer. We need a solution. We need a vision.

And if those people cannot provide it, they should step down. And if the international community sees that Israel has no vision and no idea how to

solve it, the international community has as a duty to get involved. But in practical steps, not in talking.

MACFARLANE: Gideon, it's always great to have your perspective there from inside Israel. We appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.

LEVY: Thank you for having me.

MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come, more on New York City's deadliest shooting in 25 years. We'll have the latest on the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:36]

MACFARLANE: Returning now to New York City's deadliest shooting in 25 years, police say a 27-year-old gunman traveled from Las Vegas to New York,

killing four people and then himself on Monday evening. A source tells CNN the shooter targeted a tower in Midtown Manhattan because it included the

corporate offices of the National Football League.

It's the second shooting in New York since December, in which a shooter has traveled into the state with a firearm and targeted executives. Luigi

Mangione is accused of fatally shooting the UnitedHealthcare CEO on a Manhattan sidewalk earlier last year.

So, what we want to know is how can law enforcement protect high profile targets?

Joining me now is CNN senior law enforcement analyst and retired chief -- police chief, Charles Ramsey.

Charles, thank you very much for your time this evening.

As we were saying there, Charles, this is the second time we've seen a shooting of this kind. A shooter coming in from out of state to target

executives in the heart of Manhattan. Should there be now a move towards increased security at private corporate firms? And if so, how would you

even begin to go about that?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, many private corporate companies have already stepped up their security using private

security. Local law enforcement simply doesn't have the resources to be able to handle the volume of people that would need that kind of

protection, particularly 24 hour a day protection.

But by working with corporate security, I think the local police can also add to that security when its necessary. But nothing's going to be 100

percent foolproof.

Take a look at yesterday with the building. And that's a pretty secure building. However, he was able to walk in immediately, start shooting, kill

the police officer, kill the security guard and make it all the way to the 33rd floor of the building where he killed another person.

MACFARLANE: We heard Governor Kathy Hochul today urging Republicans once again to stand up for gun reform. And this all raises an age old question

again as to access to firearms, especially for those with mental health issues. And it's a challenge for law enforcement, because I believe the

state of New York actually already has quite tight gun control, you know, or has done for some time.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, New York does have tight gun control. But this is a big country and a lot of states don't have very strict laws. I mean, Nevada

is a good example of that. I mean, if you don't have a criminal record, if you're a resident of that state, you can purchase a firearm.

And so, you know, it varies from state to state, which makes it very difficult. You know, I'm from Chicago, originally in Chicago, had very

tough gun laws, but we were getting guns in from Indiana, for an example across the border.

So, it's very difficult to really have any kind of gun control, especially since our Congress here is unwilling to take any action at all.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, one would think it impossible really to vet everyone coming into the state. And we know that obviously, still, new details are

emerging from this case. His house is being searched now in Las Vegas. So, we'll wait to see what more comes out of this.

But, Charles Ramsey for now, appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: And we'll be back after this short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Now, who doesn't want a better nights rest? A good night's sleep? Well, in a quiet corner of Paris, traditional craftsmanship coming

from a legendary mattress company is working to give customers a lifetime of pleasant sleep.

CNN's Saskya Vandoorne has a look behind the scenes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SASKYA VANDOORNE, CNN SENIOR PRODUCER (voice-over): Tucked within a cul- de-sac on the east side of Paris, lives Le Briand, one of the last matelassiers or artisanal mattress makers in France.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There aren't many of us, that's for sure.

VANDOORNE: The brand was founded in 1880 and was recently sold to new owners who were determined to preserve the fading craft of sculpting and

stitching each mattress by hand.

ROSALIE HOEDTS, CO-OWNER, LE BRIAND (through translator): We're very happy with having bought the workshop. It's also very exciting to have a

meaningful job.

VANDOORNE: Le Briand's mattresses are made of wool, a material which Co- owner, Rosalie Hoedts, describes as having magical properties.

HOEDTS: Wool is thermo regulating, so we don't wake up too hot or too cold. So, we lie down and as we go, the mattress absorbs our heat and gives

it back to us during the night. So, we're not in a space that's too hot or too cold.

VANDOORNE: Wool is also praised for its low carbon footprint and moisture wicking abilities. And while a handmade wool mattress may cost more than a

mass produced one, up to $4,700 for a queen sized mattress and spring bed, it can last a lifetime according to Le Briand.

HOEDTS: We're creating an object that is, of course, a consumer item but one that's against consumption. So that's quite interesting.

VANDOORNE: The shop produces about 40 mattresses a month and appeals to those who wish to shop responsibly, embracing the concept of consuming less

but better.

Saskya Vandoorne, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: I mean, I'd be hard pressed to leave my memory foam, I think, although it is very impressive what they're doing.

Now, finally, tonight -- how cool was this?

[15:55:01]

Tens of thousands of football fans have been partying in London to celebrate a huge win for the team that's made the country proud.

On Monday, England's lionesses returned home after successfully defending their European crown by beating Spain three one on penalties. They had no

time to unpack before the celebrations began today, with an open top bus parade. The team was able to retain the crown. They won as host three years

ago, and it's the first time an England football has won a major trophy on foreign soil.

And up next, we have the World Cup in two years. Things are looking good.

And that'll do it for us here. I'm Christina Macfarlane in London. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.

END

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