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What We Know with Max Foster

Trump Pauses Higher Tariffs On Mexico For 90 Days; Sources: Hamas Stops Engaging In Ceasefire Negotiations; Russia Claims Its Forces Have Captured Key Ukrainian Town; White House: Trump Not Considering Clemency For Maxwell; Trump Administration And Brown University Reach Deal To Restore Funding. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired July 31, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:22]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: Just hours to spare before a new world of tariffs.

I'm Christina Macfarlane, in for Max Foster. This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Throughout the day, President Trump and his advisers have been looking to strike those last-minute trade deals for many agreements. Few details are

known beyond what the president has shared on social media. So, what do we know is that for the next three months, Mr. Trump is hitting pause on

higher tariffs on certain American -- certain Mexican goods. He is, on the other hand, escalating his trade war with China after it announced plans to

recognize the Palestinian state.

Without a deal, tariffs on some Canadian goods could rise from 25 percent to 35 percent.

Let's go straight out to senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is standing by.

And, Kevin, it appears at this moment that there is so much geopolitics at play with these remaining high stakes deals that it's difficult to know if

agreements will be made at all, let alone by tomorrow, August 1st.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right.

And the president does seem like he has some flexibility on countries with whom he thinks he's making some progress. And that's what happened with

Mexico. He got off the phone earlier today with the President Claudia Sheinbaum, saying that it was a good conversation that they are getting to

know each other better and that because of the U.S. and Mexico's shared border and all of the various issues that are involved there, that that is

a uniquely complicated trade deal. And saying that he was willing to allow more time, 90 days, for them to come up with an agreement in order to stave

off those higher tariffs.

So, the president seems like he's making progress on that front. But you see, sort of on the flip side, the countries where he seems to believe he's

making no progress, really getting some rough treatment, including India. The president today calling India a dead economy. He's raised the tariff on

that country by 25 percent. And you do hear frustrations from American officials that New Delhi is unwilling to open the Indian market to, for

example, American agricultural imports.

And so, you see how in that case, the president really having no flexibility, not allowing more time for those negotiations to proceed, even

though the two sides will keep talking. And the hope remains that they'll strike a trade deal somewhere down the line, but not until after these new

tariffs go into place. When it comes to countries like Canada, like Brazil, you see the presidents non-trade priorities seeping into this.

So, for Canada, the president saying that it would be very tough to negotiate a deal with that country, as Canada says, that it will recognize

a Palestinian state. The president sort of linking the two together. And on Brazil, the president raising the tariff rate to 50 percent, in part

because of what he claims is political persecution of the former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro.

And so, you see how the president, aside from trying to rebalance the trade relationship, although I should note with Brazil, the U.S. actually runs a

trade surplus with Brazil, so there isn't a lot of rebalancing to be done, at least from the U.S. perspective. The president trying to exert his other

priorities, his geopolitical priorities, and insert them right into this tariff process. And so the deadline remains, 12:01 Eastern Time tomorrow

morning, these countries are still kind of flocking to the U.S. in an attempt to broker these deals.

The president has had some success over the last week or so, whether it's European Union. Last night we heard about South Korea, we heard about

Japan, those countries coming to an agreement, 15 percent tariff. That's sort of the rate that seems to be emerging as the most common one, but also

agreeing to these new investments in the U.S.

But that is where some of the details here get a little fuzzy. The U.S. and these countries sort of describing very differently what these investments

will look like. Certainly, we have not seen a great deal amount on paper of how exactly some of those investments will be implemented.

So, even as these countries reach these deals, it does seem as if some of the fine print still needs to be worked out.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, so much uncertainty, so much we still do not yet know, but a president seemingly emboldened as the August 1st deadline approaches.

Kevin Liptak, appreciate you. Thank you.

Well, just as U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff is visiting Jerusalem, we're learning from two sources that Hamas has stopped engaging in the Gaza

ceasefire and hostage release negotiations. Witkoff met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today, but we don't know what was said behind

closed doors. The White House says Witkoff and the U.S. ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee, will travel to Gaza tomorrow to inspect aid

operations amid a looming famine.

[15:05:07]

I'm joined now by CNN State Department reporter Jennifer Hansler.

Jennifer, what more do we know about those comments from Hamas and the meeting that took place between Witkoff and Benjamin Netanyahu today?

JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Christina, we know from the comments from Hamas that they are also trying to bring the

pressure against the negotiators here in these Doha talks we saw last week, the Israeli and U.S. teams were pulled back from Doha from those

discussions, because the U.S. was arguing that Hamas was not negotiating in good faith. They said they were going to be looking at alternative options

for getting the hostages out of Gaza.

Now, the Qatar and Egypt, the main negotiator interlocutors here, have said that they wanted these deals and discussions to continue. However, these

comments from Hamas suggest that this is very much still on ice. All of this coming, of course, as Witkoff is in Israel right now. He met with

Prime Minister Netanyahu.

The White House described that meeting as productive and focused on issues of humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip. We imagine, of course, that the

discussions about a potential cease fire were also top of mind in all of those meetings there today. Tomorrow they are heading into the strip to

survey these aid sites on the ground. Of course, there has been deadly, deadly violence around these sites as starving and desperate Gazans are

trying to reach food there.

Now, Huckabee and Witkoff are expected to meet with Gazans to hear firsthand, according to the White House press secretary, about their

experiences there on the ground. And they are also going to be working on a new aid plan, as it's been described by the White House.

Now, I should note here, neither the White House nor the State Department has given any details about what this new aid plan would actually entail. A

press State Department deputy spokesperson, Tommy Pigott, on this earlier today, and he said only that they want to see as much food, get into the

strip without looting by Hamas.

This idea of Hamas looting has been front and center in the arguments from the Trump administration. They say this is the reason they are backing that

controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation. They claim that these are the only people who have been able to prevent Hamas looting. However, aid

officials and even an internal report from the U.S. Agency for International Development have pushed back on this idea and have said they

have not found evidence of widespread theft by Hamas aid.

Officials say the best way to stop any sort of looting is to flood the zone with food, with aid that is needed on the ground. And of course, they would

argue that the most direct way to get more aid in there to not is not to implement some sort of new plan. It's to go back to the plan that was in

place before the last ceasefire, before Israel imposed these major restrictions on aid groups getting on the ground.

Tom Fletcher was on our air earlier today and he said during the cease fire, 600 to 700 trucks were getting into Gaza with this desperately needed

food, medicine, fuel to help the people there on the ground. And that has trickled down amid closures of border crossings and major, major

restrictions by the Israeli government. They have started to allow airdrops, but this is costly and it is dangerous, according to aid

officials.

So, it is really unclear what this new plan is actually going to look like, whether its going to only involve the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation and a

lot of questions about what is actually going to come out of that meeting and that visit to Gaza tomorrow -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: We will wait to see and watch closely as to who he meets on the ground there in Gaza.

Jennifer, appreciate the update for now. Thank you.

Russia claims to have captured a key town in eastern Ukraine after nearly 18 months of fighting in the area. Chasiv Yar sits on the strategic high

ground. If this news is confirmed, it would give Russian forces access to multiple Ukrainian cities. Ukraine says its units are still holding ground

in the town. That comes as Moscow launches another overnight missile and drone attack on Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Authorities say at least 15 people

were killed, including a six-year-old boy and his mother.

Russia has been making advances for months, but its summer offensive is now shifting into a high gear. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh went to Ukraine's Donetsk

region and saw firsthand how quickly the territory is changing hands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): After dusk, the war has fallen silent, but got deadlier. This tiny military medical unit near the town of Pokrovsk, which Russia is close to

encircling, is waiting for patience, in total darkness and quiet, just for survival.

That bright light, we're told, is a Russian Spotter drone, and look at how their other attack drones riddle the dark.

[15:10:03]

The first warning is gunfire. Ukrainians aiming at Russian drones.

We just have to keep every kind of light source or heat source indoors in case Russian drones are passing overhead, and that makes it impossible,

frankly, to go outside for this unit to welcome in the wounded, instead listening to the eerie noises in the dark, trying to work out what's a

threat and what's not.

But imagine how hard it must be for those actually at the front lines trying to bring wounded out with constant drones above them.

Well, that one landed so close. You can actually smell the explosive now in the night air.

The medics tell us this is a quiet night in the skies, but no injured here is no relief.

The fact that you haven't had patients tonight isn't necessarily a good thing. It might mean they can't get out.

DMYTRO, MEDIC, UKRAINIAN 35TH MARINES BRIGADE: Yes, it's true, because we often learn there are casualties. But the evacuation is difficult. The

rescue vehicle goes and gets hit. Even an armored vehicle doesn't guarantee a timely evacuation.

WALSH: Dawn is when the injured usually come when the changing light disrupts drone cameras. But the only patients, six men with suspected

concussion after their vehicle was hit by a drone on the road who drove straight here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where are the worst injured?

WALSH: Some of the badly wounded trapped, as this video shows Ukrainian wounded evacuated here two days earlier by police from the front line.

Their injuries infected after the long wait.

Daylight doesn't stop the hunt, we rush to our car to leave, but there's a problem. Two elderly locals hear the noise. One runs and the other braves

it out.

So, our car won't start, and we've just noticed locals running away from a drone, and so we're trying to get out of here as quickly as we can.

Our vehicle is under a tree, but SUVs are a priority target. We managed to go. The need to leave when you have to abandon your life is constantly

creeping up on people here.

This is Dobropillia, where, yesterday, the normal bus service ran, but today it's canceled. And the way out is with the police in an armored van,

the drones closing in fast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did you decide to leave today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just like everyone else.

WALSH: Katya (ph) explains she and her baby son truly have nowhere to go, no plan for what's next. It's happened that fast. Days before, Russian

drones struck many civilian targets, like this coffee shop. But every day, the map of where police can go is changing.

This is Peletsky (ph), aflame, Russian troops on its edges. Police taking out those who, like many here, simply didn't see things changing so fast.

As they leave, they use this device to intercept Russian drone signals

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The highway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our one?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WALSH (voice-over): And recognize that one is flying above the same road they are on.

But the escape options are shrinking.

Ukraine normally catches Moscow off guard, but now Russia's summer offensive is shifting the ground beneath their feet, perhaps irreversibly.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, near Pokrovsk, Eastern Ukraine.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Now the White House says President Donald Trump is not considering clemency for Jeffrey Epstein accomplice Ghislaine Maxwell.

Maxwell is serving a 20-year prison sentence for helping Epstein sexually abuse young girls. The family of one of those victims, Virginia Giuffre, is

speaking out after Donald Trump told reporters Epstein stole her while she was working at his Mar-a-Lago property. They say the admission was shocking

and raises further questions about Trump's relationship with Epstein.

[15:15:05]

Our Katelyn Polantz is on the story, joining us from Washington.

Important to note, Katelyn, that Virginia Giuffre's family also asked the president not to grant clemency to Maxwell.

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Right. They say that the president, the government, should be considering no leniency for

Ghislaine Maxwell, who is serving a 20-year sentence in federal prison for that sex trafficking conviction. One of the things that they highlight is

the situation that's ongoing in both the legal sphere, in the congressional sphere, in the political sphere of what Ghislaine Maxwell has to say and

what other information may be out there related to her case. And the case against Jeffrey Epstein that was never tried before he died.

In this situation, the Justice Department under the Trump administration, they are trying to go to court and get some grand jury transcripts

revealed. We are going to wait and see exactly what the judge does there, if he will be releasing them. But there is not much new that would be

expected to come out from those grand jury transcripts there. The sort of things that victims would have already testified to in the public sphere,

and that would have come out in court already publicly.

There is also on the table this possibility that Maxwell could be offering some level of information or testimony. She's offered to Congress. She's

already spoken with limited immunity to the justice department behind closed doors, and she is asking for leniency of some sort. Her attorney

even suggesting that she is interested in a pardon if Donald Trump is willing to give her one.

Trump, however, according to a senior administration official at the White House, is saying that there is no leniency being given or discussed for

Ghislaine Maxwell at this time. The president himself has said that clemency for Maxwell is not something he is even thinking about right now.

That is according to an official who was speaking to CNN earlier today.

MACFARLANE: But given that, Katelyn, I mean, it wasn't long ago that we heard the president say that he was technically allowed to do it if he

wanted. I mean, given the Supreme Court won't consider Maxwell's petition until September 29th, that's a long time for the president to wait. Do you

expect we might still see movement on this?

POLANTZ: Well, the movement that we would be likely to see before then is very much more about transparency. There is this attempt that's still

ongoing in the court system to have grand jury records released. Again, we'll see if the judge decides to do that.

There also is this drumbeat on Capitol Hill of politicians saying that they want transparency and they want more than the sliver of information that

would be before the grand jury that is still confidential. They want all the files or more files to be released, or even to hear from Maxwell

herself.

If she were to cooperate, Ghislaine Maxwell when she's behind bars, if she were to speak publicly, there is the possibility she could always provide

so much information that she could get some type of leniency in the future, up to and including a pardon -- the power of the president will always

retain. That said, though, there is another just general drumbeat on Capitol Hill for transparency around documents.

Speaker Mike Johnson was speaking to Jake Tapper just yesterday about this, saying that they wanted transparency as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I want everything to come out about the Epstein evils that is possible to be released, because the

people that were involved in those unspeakable evil acts should be punished with the greatest severity of the law, and it should have happened a long

time ago. So I'm fully in favor of that.

And by the way, so is the president. He has said the same thing. We're using every mechanism within our power to do that and to do it as quickly

as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: So now we wait to see exactly what else will happen in court from Ghislaine Maxwell's side, from others involved. If anyone else comes

forward. And then, of course, how much and how much Congress is able to get as they push for more transparency.

MACFARLANE: All right. Katelyn Polantz, appreciate the update, thank you.

All right. Coming up, a third child arrives in the U.K. from Gaza for critical medical care. But the U.K. government is being urged to act

quickly to help others.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:22:32]

MACFARLANE: The United Kingdom is vowing to ramp up efforts to bring children from Gaza to the U.K. who need critical medical treatment, with a

trickle of aid entering clinics in Gaza say they're full of malnourished and starving children. But so far, only three children have arrived in the

U.K., brought here by privately funded group called Project Pure Hope.

The most recent is Majd (ph). He and his family flew into London from Cairo last night. You can see the pictures here on your screen. Project Pure

Hope, says Majd, requires facial reconstruction after both of his jaws were broken when an Israeli tank shell exploded. The group is urging the U.K.

government to act quicker or risk the lives of children who need urgent care.

Omar Din is the co-founder of the Project Pure Hope and joins me here now.

Thank you so much for joining us live.

We were just seeing images there of Majd and his family arriving in Heathrow just yesterday. I think he had a cover over his mouth. Obviously

that's where his injuries are.

He is the first child to arrive in the U.K. for treatment of war injuries. Can you tell us what happened to him and what his condition is right now?

OMAR DIN, FOUNDER, PROJECT PURE HOPE: Yeah. So, Majd is a 15-year-old boy and you know, prior to all of this happening was like any other 15-year-old

boy, very happy, wanted to go out, play with his friends. And obviously after October 7th, the situation really changed in Gaza. And on the day of

the incident, he had gone out with a few of his friends to get some aid from the Kuwaiti camp.

So, he was going to get food for his family. One of his friends who was with him, they were walking along. They spotted some Israeli tanks that

started shelling them and others in the vicinity, and one of the shells caused his friend to die and blew up in the vicinity of Majd, and it caused

his both of his jaws to be broken in multiple places. And for a lot of his face to be disfigured.

And in the human body, the jawbone is one of the strongest bones in the body. For that to break, it requires immense force, and it has a huge, huge

impact on the individual to the extent that the pain is excruciating, it's very difficult to compare it to anything. So, he ended up then in hospital.

By God's grace, was there and somebody spotted him who knew his father and told his father that "your son is here", and then he came to see to him.

[15:25:05]

He had some treatment there, but it's not quite the treatment that he needed --

MACFARLANE: In a hospital in Gaza, you mean, yeah.

DIN: A hospital in Gaza, yeah.

MACFARLANE: So he's now come to the U.K. with some of his family members. You were telling me just off air that the family had to make a really

difficult decision about who to repatriate and who to leave behind.

DIN: Yeah. That's right. And actually, all of the families we've brought to the U.K. for treatment are having to make those difficult decisions.

They actually had to make those decisions before they came to the U.K. in the sense of when they were coming out of Gaza. They first went to a

different country and in the case of all three of our children who have come here, they've come from Egypt. So, the first place they went to was

Egypt.

And before they got to Egypt, they had to make the decision who crosses the border and who stays. And in all cases, they've had to make those

decisions. When we've spoken with the earlier families who came in April through Project Pure Hope, it's horrific. What you hear and you know, it

causes you --

MACFARLANE: (INAUDIBLE)

DIN: Yeah. I mean, one of the mothers told us just in the past few days that whilst they're here and they're really grateful for the treatment that

they're receiving, her children who are back in Gaza, traveled five miles to the nearest hospital just to get a Wi-Fi connection to call mum and to

tell mum that were really pleased that God saved you and Rama, but we're here starving and she's in tears every day.

It's very, very difficult to hear, very difficult to imagine how a parent would go through something like that. I would really struggle to calibrate

that in my mind.

MACFARLANE: This is Rama, 13-year-old Rama. And there was also a five- year-old Ghena (ph) who you also the first two children you managed to evacuate to England after 17 months of lobbying. You managed to do it

finally on privately funded money, despite the U.K. government.

Why did it take so long?

DIN: It's a very good question. You know, we think that there's been a lot of fear is the reality. When we saw, interestingly, the reaction to us

bringing these children over on 100 percent privately funded or a privately funded basis, it was interesting that there was still people and reactions

that were demonstrating fear of what would happen next.

We're not bringing hundreds of children here. We brought just three children so far, and we've only ever asked to bring a very small number.

But the reaction has been really, really interesting.

And I think amongst the government, there's fear of backlash from people. You know, these three kids have made zero difference to the NHS. They're

not being treated on the NHS, they're being treated in in the private wings of hospitals with 100 percent private funding.

MACFARLANE: Yeah.

DIN: So there's zero impact to the taxpayer, to the NHS. And so, I really don't know why it's taken this long, but now, several months after that,

again, we're asking the government to use our learning to use all of what we've made as a blueprint and to help us to bring a cohort of children to

the U.K.

MACFARLANE: And the government made a U-turn on that last Friday. They announced that they were going to urgently scale up efforts to evacuate

children from Gaza. You said you've identified 30 children.

DIN: Yeah.

MACFARLANE: What has happened since Friday? The U.K. government moving fast enough?

DIN: It's definitely not fast enough. I'll start by saying we obviously really welcome what the P.M. said. It's great to hear that these brave

comments being made by leaders who clearly before now were finding it difficult to say these things. It's great to hear now that they're talking

about a ceasefire and supporting that ceasefire recognition of the Palestinian state and support for injured children to come to the U.K.

And on that last point, this is what we've been asking for for 20 months now, over 20 months. So, for us, it's an endorsement and its approval of

our proposal. But this needs to move fast. In the time that that news story was broken on Friday, we've been out to Cairo, picked up the comeback, and

were ready to admit him into hospital. And this is just, you know, us Project Pure Hope with just a few civilians.

MACFARLANE: Yeah.

DIN: You know, we've got day jobs. We do this as a voluntary mission, humanitarian mission. And when you've got an entire government available to

do this work, like we did for the Ukrainians, and we were very, very proud to do that. The U.K. has got a long tradition and a proud tradition of

helping people in really difficult situations, of delivering humanitarian aid and humanitarian support.

And, you know, myself and my colleagues at Project Pure Hope, we were also involved in our day jobs in looking after Ukrainian kids.

MACFARLANE: Yeah.

DIN: So why -- we must be able to do the same for Gaza and children.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And I think just seeing the way that Majd was mobbed by, you know, members of the public at the airport when he arrived yesterday, I

think is an indication of this is what the British people want, and that perhaps there might be a disconnect here.

Omar, we appreciate you coming in and telling us this. And I really deeply value the work that you are doing. So thank you for your time.

DIN: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: All right. Still to come, well, many countries race against the clock to strike, a U.S. trade deal in Mexico now has more time to think

things over. We'll explain why after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:33:30]

MCAFARLANE: Returning to our top story now, we are seeing a flurry of activity as Donald Trump's midnight tariff deadline looms.

Earlier, the U.S. president announced he is pausing higher tariffs on Mexico for 90 days. This comes after a phone call between Trump and

President -- Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum. America's largest trading partner will face 25 percent tariffs during this three-month extension.

CNN's Valeria Leon is tracking this story live from Mexico City.

So, Valeria, do we know what President Sheinbaum said to President Trump to agree this extension?

VALERIA LEON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christina, well, Mexico's President Claudia Sheinbaum said that mutual respect was key in this negotiations

with her U.S. counterpart to gain another 90-day suspension of tariffs on Mexican goods. Her government admitted that they wouldn't negotiate in

their interests.

It was in this 40-minute call between both presidents and, according to Trump, a very successful one. But the negotiations with Donald Trump

haven't been easy, to say the least. Mexico's president revealed that the key is to avoid confrontation with Donald Trump, but her government

conceded they were unable to advance the country's interests given the mostly defensive nature of the talks.

Although Mexico has a unique advantage over the countries, not only because it's the U.S.'s biggest trade partner, with 84 percent of its exports sent

to the U.S., but also because since 1994, both countries have had a trade agreement under which half of the Mexican products exported to the U.S. are

free of tariffs already imposed.

[15:35:17]

And according to President Sheinbaum, with the newly reached agreement of a 90-day pause, the 30 percent tariff is no longer on the table for the

upcoming negotiations for a new definitive trade deal to replace the current one that expires this year. So, the talks from this week can be

seen as a preliminary round of -- for the drafting of this new trade is expected before the end of the year, though this recent announcement didn't

necessarily come as a surprise given that the White House has turned to them on a nearly monthly basis since taking office.

But over the past few months, Mexico has adopted a wait and see strategy in response to Trump's tariffs. And today, Shimon said this strategy has

worked, at least for now, giving Mexico a chance to catch its breath -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, I was just going to say some breathing space at least. But so much still to come.

Valeria, appreciate your reporting on that. Thank you.

Now, whether it's Canada's plans to recognize Palestine, Brazil's former president facing legal trouble, or Thailand and Cambodia exchanging fire,

Donald Trump apparently sees tariffs as his diplomatic lever of choice. As recently as this week, he's admitted that he'll use them to get whatever he

can to get what he wants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The leaders of Pakistan and India, I know them very well and you know, they're in the midst of a trade

deal, and yet they're talking about nuclear weapons. I say, this is crazy.

So, I said, I'm not doing a trade deal with you, guys. And they want the trade deal. They need it. I'm not doing a trade deal with you if you're

going to have war.

Things that people wouldn't have given us two years ago wouldn't have even thought of it two years ago, three years ago, five years ago, seven --

they're giving us everything. They don't want tariffs on themselves. And it's very simple. We're making deals and people are paying tariffs.

And those tariffs have come in and every country has called us. That's the beauty of what we do. We put ourselves in the driver's seat. If we would

have asked some of these countries, almost most of these countries to do us a favor, they would have said no. Now, they'll do anything for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: So, what we want to know is, has Donald Trump's tariff strategy gotten results?

Well, joining me now is geopolitics analyst Bobby Ghosh.

Bobby, great to have you with us. As we were just saying there, I mean, Trump is now seemingly freewheeling in mixing geopolitics with his tariff

threats. We were talking there about, you know, the moves to Canada this week, Thailand, India, you know, it just keeps coming. And it's a very

unique way of doing business. But in your view, is it getting results?

BOBBY GHOSH, COLUMNIST & GEOPOLITICS ANALYST: Well, what Trump is doing is what psychiatrists call the Maslow's hammer, which is basically if the only

tool you have is a is a hammer, then you're tempted to think of all problems as nails, and you apply the hammer.

Trump has decided that the tool of his choice is the tariff. This is a relatively new discovery for him. He didn't really use it very much in the

first term, but once he's discovered that tool, he seems to want to apply it to all kinds of problems. Some of them are real problems, like trying to

stop a war between India and Pakistan. Some of them are imagined problems, but that's the only tool he has.

Has it worked? Well, he would claim and you just had a clip of him there saying that it has been a roaring success, that it has solved all kinds of

problems. But if you drill down into the actual facts, if you look at the data and the answer is no, it has not worked. What it has done is that it

has made the whole world, the global economy, a much more uncertain place.

When the president of the largest player in the world economy seems to whimsically, whimsically use this tool, it makes everybody uncertain. It

makes markets uncertain. It makes business leaders uncertain. And uncertainty is not a friend of economics. And uncertainty is not good for

the American economy.

So, I don't -- I don't think anybody looking at the data can rationally argue that it has actually worked. But in Donald Trump's mind, that's the

tool he has, and that's the one he's going to keep using.

MACFARLANE: I mean, you say that, you know, it has been damaging to the U.S. economy, to the global economy. But we did see those 3 percent GDP

figures released yesterday, which weren't as bad as expected. And I remember, you know, post-liberation day that all anyone was talking about

was the certainty of U.S. recession, global recession.

[15:40:05]

I mean, that has not come to pass yet, but we stopped talking about it. I mean, are our fears that we had in the interim time. have they been

misplaced?

GHOSH: No, I don't think so. I think there is a lag between these policies and when they actually start hurting. And also remember that a lot of his

threats have only been threats. They've not really been followed through. A lot of the tariffs that he has -- he has threatened, he has then turned,

turned around and granted countries extensions, just as he has now done for Mexico again.

So, they haven't fully taken hold. Also remember that when he became president, the United States was sitting on one of the most successful

economies in the world, certainly the fastest growing developing economy in the world. So, the economy was doing pretty well.

And an economy this large does not turn on a dime. Thank goodness for that, by the way. But it does not turn on a dime, even with sort of -- even when

you have the president taking a wrecking ball to the global system, it does take some time for the economy to feel the pain from that.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. So, I want to get your projection then, because we know that U.S. businesses have been absorbing a lot of the initial shocks of

these, of this tariff war through absorbing costs, stockpiling inventory. But what are the economic ramifications for the United States come August

the 1st if these deals aren't done and there's still many, many to be done?

GHOSH: Well, if the deals are not done, I suspect what you'll hear from the president is what we've heard before saying, oh, we've given everybody

another 30 days or 60 days or 90 days, and we've done that because that is to our advantage. That's the way he will portray it. Whether that is borne

out by the facts or not.

The -- I'm not an economist. I cannot predict how long it will take before these things hurt. But I do have a lot of respect for the U.S. Treasury,

and the U.S. Treasury is not yet willing to predict, and that's full of really smart economists who come up with these decisions. They're not

willing to back away from their concerns that the economy is in trouble or will be in trouble. And that's what I worry about.

You're also hearing from business leaders a lot of business leaders, American business leaders, people who, by the way, gave money to Trump and

continue to support Trump. You're hearing them raise alarms, saying the good times will not keep rolling forever. If these matters are not resolved

quickly, things will hurt, and pretty soon, you'll begin to hear -- you're already actually hearing in in polls from ordinary Americans, many of whom

voted for Donald Trump, saying that the prices are hurting them. Inflation has not gone away, really, despite what the official data says.

So there's plenty of actual data out there that shows that the pain is beginning to rise when it gets to the stage where it affects growth rates

or the overall economy, that's for a real economist to answer.

MACFARLANE: All right. And we will come back to you when and if perhaps it reaches that point.

Bobby, always great to have your analysis. Thank you.

GHOSH: Thank you.

MACFARLANE: Now, a tsunami scare for Hawaii. Still to come, the difficult evacuation process in the isolated tropical paradise before the advisory

was lifted.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:46:27]

MACFARLANE: The Trump administration and Brown University have reached a deal to restore federal funding to the school. Brown has agreed to pay $50

million to local workforce development organizations, and has also made several concessions.

President Trump is casting the deal as a symbolic victory for the end of wokeness at the school, which is located in Rhode Island.

For more on the agreement, let's go now to senior White House reporter Betsy Klein.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, Christina, the Trump administration is touting a new multimillion dollar agreement with Brown

university to restore federal funding, but this deal is very different from last week's $221 million settlement with another Ivy League School,

Columbia University.

So, under this new agreement, brown is going to pay $50 million over ten years to Rhode Island workforce development organizations. That's, of

course, something that's been a key priority for the Trump administration. And Brown is also adopting the governments definition of male and female.

They have agreed to remove any consideration of race from their admissions process, and they are also dismantling certain diversity, equity and

inclusion programs.

Now, in return, the Trump administration will restore all frozen grants, restore the school's eligibility for any future funding, and close all

pending investigations into brown. But it's really notable that Brown was largely able to escape the nine figure settlements that the White House

reached with Columbia and is now seeking from Harvard. The school is not making any payments or fines to the government like Columbia did. They also

will not have an independent monitor.

Now, Brown President Christina Paxson also noted in a statement that, quote, the agreement does not give the government the authority to dictate

browns curriculum or the content of academic speech. She also says that most of the provisions codify existing policies and practices, but she did

acknowledge that there are some aspects that were priorities from the Trump administration to resolve this funding freeze. This is something that was

really putting significant financial strain on Brown, along with other schools. And White House officials had told me they hoped the Columbia deal

would serve as a roadmap for other schools. They had suggested earlier this week that deals with Brown, as well as Cornell, could be close.

And at the same time, we have seen the Trump administration launch a pair of investigations at duke university this week. And, of course, they also

remain engaged in lawsuits with Harvard -- Christina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Our thanks to Betsy for that. We'll be back in just a moment.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:51:32]

MACFARLANE: Twenty-five passengers were injured on board a Delta flight after significant turbulence forced the plane to make an emergency landing.

The plane was en route to Amsterdam from Salt Lake City, Utah, when it was diverted to Minneapolis on Wednesday. Have a listen as one of the

passengers recount seeing service carts and other objects thrown around amid the chaos.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

WILLIAM WEBSTER, PASSENGER: I watched a wine cart just get thrown into the air and like, stuff is thrown everywhere. People lost phones, like people

were screaming. It was crazy. I felt the centrifugal force. I was off my seat for like 30 seconds with turbulence.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Tourists and residents in Hawaii can once again relax in paradise. Tuesday's earthquake off the coast of Russia prompted tsunami

alerts all across the Pacific Ocean. But for those in Hawaii, that meant evacuating to higher ground and for tourists trying to find a place to take

shelter.

Here's Will Ripley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's nothing quite like a Waikiki sunset. Thats why so many people come here. A

picturesque vacation that suddenly turned into this -- tsunami sirens, traffic jams. The shock of Wednesday's 8.8 magnitude quake near Russia

shattering across the Pacific, around the world.

And here in Hawaii, vacationers found themselves suddenly scrambling. When the warning came in, Norwegian Cruise Lines Pride of America had to abandon

port hours ahead of schedule. Passengers ran trying to make it. Those who did not forced to flee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary. It's crazy right now. Like everybody is evacuating all at the same time.

RIPLEY: Hundreds stranded.

JEFFERY BOOKER, VACATIONER FROM ORLANDO, FLORIDA: We knew at that point we weren't going to make it so it's pulling away now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the hotels are taken, so we're probably sleeping in my Jeep here. Yeah, that's what we're going to do.

RIPLEY: Before the ship came back the next day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're welcoming us. Woo! We're back.

RIPLEY: Flights heading to Hawaii turned around in midair. The impact of travel cancellations will be felt for days.

So, what did you guys do?

JENNY MASSEY, VACATIONER FROM CALIFORNIA: So, we ended up going up to our 28th floor of our hotel and just staying there the whole night.

RIPLEY: Jenny Massey and her family are from California. She went to the University of Hawaii. A trip meant for nostalgia suddenly became a night to

remember.

J. MASSEY: I'm super thankful because it would have been devastating if something happened. We love Waikiki and this area, but it is a bit surreal.

RIPLEY: And fun, says her son, Brandon.

BRANDON MASSEY, VACATIONER FROM CALIFORNIA: We get to swim at the beach now.

RIPLEY: Are the waves bigger today?

B. MASSEY: Yeah.

RIPLEY: Yeah, they're really big.

B. MASSEY: It's funner.

RIPLEY; But the National Weather Service urges caution. Strong currents and unpredictable surf can still be dangerous.

So here we are, 24 hours after Hawaii's tsunami scare. And Waikiki Beach is as busy as ever. For a lot of these people, this was just a minor blip on

their vacation radar, a story they can go back and tell their friends about.

DOAN TRANG, VACATIONER FROM CALIFORNIA: And this happened.

RIPLEY: Yeah.

TRANG: You know, once in my lifetime.

RIPLEY: Doan Trang is a surfer from California. She and her son heard the sirens and walked two hours to get to higher ground.

They did a good job warning everyone.

TRANG: Warning everybody. Because you do have to warn people, you know. The Thailand and everything in 2004. It's a big thing.

RIPLEY: In 2004, more than 230,000 people died when an earthquake triggered tsunami slammed into countries across the Indian Ocean.

[15:55:00]

In 2011, a tsunami off Japan's coast killed nearly 20,000 people, crippling Fukushima's nuclear plant, sending debris across the Pacific.

This week's earthquake was the strongest in the world since that day.

TRANG: I just thought about it and say, wow, what a night. You know?

RIPLEY: Could have been a lot worse.

TRANG: Could have been a lot worse.

RIPLEY: And so, tourists are back on the sand, grateful for another day in paradise.

Will Ripley, CNN, Honolulu.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Good to see so many people returning to the beach after such a momentous scare.

And that'll do it for us this hour. I'm Christina Macfarlane.

Stay tuned for "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS". He's up next.

END

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