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What We Know with Max Foster
Trump On Putin: "I Think He's Going To Make A Deal"; U.S. & Russia Prepare For Trump-Putin Summit In Alaska; Netanyahu Pushing "Voluntary" Migration From Gaza; GPT-5 Fails To Meet "PhD Level Smart" Performance Hype; Taylor Swift Talks New Music On "New Heights" Podcast. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 14, 2025 - 15:00 ET
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[15:00:29]
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The final preparations are being made ahead of Donald Trump and Vladimir Putins meeting in Alaska tomorrow.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
On the eve of what could be an historic summit between the presidents, expectations from both the White House and the Kremlin appear to be a bit
higher today.
Mr. Trump says he believes his Russian counterpart is going to make a deal. Speaking from the Oval Office a short while ago, he said he hopes to secure
a trilateral meeting that would include Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a meeting with President Putin tomorrow. I think it's going to be a good meeting, but the
more important meeting will be the second meeting that we're having. We're going to have a meeting with President Putin, President Zelenskyy, myself,
and maybe we'll bring some of the European leaders along. Maybe not. It's - - I don't know that it's going to be very important. We're going to see what happens.
And I think President Putin will make peace. I think President Zelenskyy will make peace. We'll see if they can get along and if they can, it'll be
great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, before leaving for Alaska, Mr. Putin was full of praise for President Trump, saying the American administration is making sincere
efforts to stop the conflict.
Jeff Zeleny is with us from Washington. CNN's Michael Yoshida is in Anchorage ahead of that key summit.
First of all, to you, Jeff, just listening to the president there, he does seem a bit more positive today, doesn't he? But he's not talking about a
deal tomorrow, right?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Not talking about a deal tomorrow. But, Max, it's been pretty extraordinary. Sort of
like a yoyo raising expectations and lowering expectations. Sometimes, hour by hour. But, boy, that was certainly raising expectations. The notion of
not at this meeting, but he said at a second meeting to have Zelenskyy and Putin and perhaps other European leaders sitting around the same table.
Boy, that remains a fairly lofty goal.
The question is, what possibly could come out of the summit tomorrow that could reach that goal or get closer to that goal? The bottom line is that
Ukraine is likely unwilling to accede to any acquisition of its territory. That's certainly something that President Zelenskyy cannot do on his own.
He's actually not allowed to, even if he wanted to, which, of course, he doesn't.
So the idea going into the meeting, it certainly is a win for Vladimir Putin, certainly being elevated back on the stage, the world stage, by a
western leader standing side by side with an American president. That has not happened since he did with Joe Biden back in Geneva, Switzerland, some
6 or 7 months before the Ukraine war.
But look, President Trump is intent on finding some type of a deal, some type of an agreement here going forward. He's very set on that. But a Putin
for his point, is clearly trying to normalize this meeting, saying Ukraine is one of the objectives, but also wants to talk about, nuclear arms, about
the trade embargo, the economy. The reality is, none of that can come unless there is some type of progress on Ukraine. And that remains very
much an open question.
FOSTER: Michael. I mean, it couldn't be a more high profile event, could it? And it's been scrambled together. What are the logistics been like?
MICHAEL YOSHIDA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Max, you mentioned it. A scramble to get this all put together. Those final preparations underway right now
here in Anchorage, Alaska. The White House confirming earlier today that a joint press conference is planned with Putin and Trump following this
summit, White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt saying that president Trump will be departing the White House early tomorrow morning to head here
to Anchorage for this summit. It's going to take place at a joint military base just a few miles north of us, right on the northern part of this
Alaskan town, where we know president Trump and President Putin will take part in one on one conversations that will be followed by a bilateral lunch
with other members of their delegations. And then, that potential joint press conference to follow.
It's also important to note, in an interview with Fox Radio earlier today, President Trump also said that he potentially could decide to do a solo
press conference rather than that if things were to not end well in that meeting. So, it goes without saying. All eyes on this summit for what
happens during it, but probably more importantly, what happens after and what is said after by President Trump -- Max.
FOSTER: A real moment of history. Michael, thank you.
Jeff, I've been interested to see how Europe has played into this.
[15:05:01]
Initially completely frozen out, but they've been very vocal, haven't they? Organizing meetings between each other, very cohesive for Europeans, to be
fair. And they've really driven the narrative, this idea that there are red lines which can't be crossed during this big meeting with Trump and it has
affected the agenda in a way.
ZELENY: It definitely has. I mean, President Zelenskyy has been at the center of this, obviously, in the U.K. earlier side by side with the
British prime minister, Keir Starmer the European leaders getting on a phone call just yesterday with President Trump really trying to impart some
of their views on him. So that's fresh in his mind before he goes to Alaska. But it just is a reminder of just the lengths of which the distance
that would have to be made at the summit tomorrow for all sides to come together.
It almost seems impossible to believe it could be done even with a couple meetings. But look, President Trump has a way to leave his counterparts
sort of off, off their a footing, if you will. So, we will see how much he has grown. Max, that is one thing I am looking forward tomorrow. How much
has President Trump grown since 2018, when he had that meeting in Helsinki?
I recall it very well being there. It was quite an embarrassment, actually, as he accepted the Russian president's word that there was no election
meddling. His own intelligence agency said no, of course there was. He had to sidestep when he came back. So that's the question. How much does
President Trump grown and how tough will he be on Friday with Putin once they come face to face?
FOSTER: Yeah. And Putin's so experienced at this game, isn't he? Jeff, it will be fascinating. Thank you so much. Michael, you're there on this front
line of history moment. Thank you both for joining us.
ZELENY: You bet.
FOSTER: Now while Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy will not be at the summit, he is still trying to ensure his country's best interests are
considered. Earlier, he met with British prime minister. As Jeff was saying. Mr. Zelenskyy says they discussed Friday's summit and potential
security guarantees. The Ukrainian president also stressed the need for meaningful and lasting diplomacy after enduring years of wars. Ukrainians
are hopeful but cautious for a peaceful resolution.
The former foreign minister of Ukraine spoke to our Christiane Amanpour about sentiment in his country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMYTRO KULEBA, FORMER UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We have become extremely cautious about every next promise of a solution, of whether it's a pause or
anything else. So, Ukrainians definitely have hopes for the meeting. But everyone understands that judging from what is happening on the front line
we are not close to peace. And the expectations are very cautious.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Nick Paton Walsh is in Kyiv, and I know there's a lot of cynicism there, Nick, that Putin's just going to play for time. He just wants to
keep this war going.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I mean, ultimately it is time that Putin really needs, given the slow but at times
significant progress his forces are seeing along the eastern front line. Max, over weeks, we've seen here villages that were once safe, suddenly
under threat from Russian drones and then suddenly almost inaccessible to Ukrainian civilians and then under threat from Russian occupation. It's
been moving a lot quicker than I've seen in three years, really, of coming here, particularly in that area. Incremental changes, but at times risking
to be strategically significant.
And U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio indeed hinted at that there would need to be some kind of stoppage in the violence. And in his comments that
I'm paraphrasing here, essentially reminding people that the front line is changing often in Russia's favor, changing indeed the very things that are
being discussed potentially in Alaska. That's the backdrop to what Zelenskyy is facing here.
A ceasefire, frankly, for Ukraine would be a significant boost because it would give potentially a moment for its forces to recover. And a time in
which they could possibly collect manpower and improve their position along the front line, where at times there have has been a sense over the last
week, not a risk of collapse, but certainly the unexpected happening more than Kyiv would certainly like.
Zelenskyy himself in London, talking about the security guarantees, he hopes that the coalition of the willing of key European powers could
provide in the event of some kind of more sustained peace deal or ceasefire. But ultimately, I think here in Ukraine, Max, there is a
significant sense of anxiety. You heard there, Jeff, talking about the varying senses of expectation that Trump is providing around this meeting
at one moment, playing it down, limited chances of success, another moments high chances of success, never setting the threshold for what success would
even potentially look like.
And I think that has left many here concerned that ultimately, it's in Trump's gift to emerge from that meeting and decide whether he liked it or
not. And indeed, Putin has clearly been suggesting a more bilateral sense of this moving forward. Does Trump hear something that's in America's
interest, but not in Ukraine's, and decide to pursue that and therefore improve his relationship with the kremlin? All of this in the mix.
You could listen to Trump and think he's going to be very hard on Vladimir Putin. Or you could listen to him and think, potentially, this could result
in further meetings and him going along with ultimately what Putin suggests. He has called this a listening exercise, essentially toning down
the likelihood of him being an active participant in this meeting, pushing down ideas or pushing forward a plan of his own. So, so much up for grabs.
And when its life and death here with an air raid sirens often going off, that leaves people deeply anxious -- Max.
FOSTER: Okay. Nick in Kyiv, thank you so much for bringing us the story from there.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meanwhile, confirming reports that Israel is in talks with several countries about taking in Palestinians
from Gaza. Mr. Netanyahu, backed by U.S. President Trump, is pushing for Palestinians to, quote, leave. He says it would be voluntary migration.
Critics call it attempted ethnic cleansing.
Mr. Netanyahu told Israeli channel I24 News that he's on an historic and spiritual mission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERVIEWER: Do you connect to the vision?
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Very much so.
INTERVIEWER: Really?
NETANYAHU: Very much. This is the greater Israel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: The term greater Israel, often used as a reference to biblical Israel, which would include parts of today's Egypt, Syria, Jordan and
Lebanon.
Countries across the Arab world are condemning those remarks, as well as Israel's attempt to relocate Palestinians in Gaza.
CNN's Oren Liebermann is in Jerusalem with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has several times talked about what he has described as a
voluntary emigration from Gaza, something he says other countries should accept and be willing to take in Palestinians who want to leave. But he's
never given any real details on this, and its never been clear if this plan might actually come to fruition, or if there's even any traction behind it.
Well, we've learned from a senior Israeli official that Israel is in talks with at least five different countries about the possibility of this plan.
Those countries include South Sudan, Libya, Ethiopia, Somaliland and Indonesia.
The problem is, a number of these countries have already rejected these talks. For example, South Sudan just a few days ago rejected the idea of
talks about the displacement of Palestinians. Somaliland did the same several months ago. And Indonesia, within the last week or two, said they
could take in about 2,000 Gazans, but it would be for temporary treatment and then they would return to Gaza. So, it's not clear that any of the
countries with which this official tells us Israel is discussing this plan are willing to entertain this beyond mere discussions.
Still, Netanyahu is pursuing this. We first really heard about this in terms of in terms of a goal of Israel, when it was, in fact, President
Donald Trump, who mentioned it earlier in his term at the beginning of the year. But he appears to have since cooled on the idea. Israel, meanwhile,
is pushing forward, insisting this is not an ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Its not forcing people out, Netanyahu saying this would be voluntary.
NETANYAHU: First of all, inside Gaza, we are not pushing them out either, but we are allowing them to leave.
INTERVIEWER: It is happening very slowly.
NETANYAHU: You need the receiving countries. We're talking to several countries. I can't detail it here. The most natural thing would be for all
those who say they're concerned for the Palestinians and want to help the Palestinians to open their doors, why are they coming and preaching to us?
Open your doors.
LIEBERMANN: Israel has never laid out a clear day after plan for Gaza. What would happen for more than 2 million Palestinians in the besieged
territory? This potentially is as close to a day after plan for what to do with the Palestinians in Gaza as Israel has ever come. The problem is, it's
unclear if this really has any possibility of happening, not to mention the fact that for this to happen, you need Palestinians willing to permanently
leave their home and permanently leave Gaza. And it's simply not clear that that's the case.
Oren Liebermann, CNN, in Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Still to come, Israel's finance minister announces a controversial move that he says will bury the idea of a Palestinian state.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:34]
FOSTER: Britain's condemning Israels plan to advance a highly controversial settlement in the occupied West Bank, calling it a flagrant breach of
international law. Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who has significant control over West Bank affairs, announced the move today.
Critics call the E1 settlement plan a doomsday scenario. It would effectively split the West Bank in two, separating it from East Jerusalem.
Smotrich left no doubt about the intent of this move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEZALEL SMOTRICH, ISRAELI FINANCE MINISTER: Whoever in the world is trying to recognize a Palestinian state today will receive our answer on the
ground, not with documents, nor with decisions or statements, but with facts. Facts of houses, facts of neighborhoods, roads, and of more and more
Jewish families building lives. They will speak of the false Palestinian dream. We will continue to build a fulfilling Jewish reality. This reality
definitively buries the idea of a Palestinian state, simply because there is nothing to recognize and no one to recognize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: I'm joined now by Khaled Elgindy, an adjunct professor at Georgetown University's Center for Contemporary Arab Studies. He's also
author of "Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians from Balfour to Trump".
Thank you so much for joining us.
A lot of the language we're hearing there, we've heard before, haven't we? But it is in the context of many countries, major countries in the world,
calling for a Palestinian state. And this, you know, sort of narrative very much undermines that.
KHALED ELGINDY, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Yes. And I think as the Minister Smotrich very clearly pointed out the distinction between
words on the one hand and actions, and it's -- it's a -- it's a lesson, I think, that the international community could learn. So, he's not talking
about a narrative. He's talking about creating facts on the ground, new realities on the ground that effectively, from a practical standpoint
destroy any prospect of a Palestinian state, that many countries around the world are seeking to recognize.
And so, the response would seem to have to be commensurate actions as opposed to simply words. Because this is a very extreme government. They
are committed to the greater Israel ideology. They do not -- it's not only that they don't recognize a future Palestinian state. They don't even
recognize the existence of a Palestinian people.
FOSTER: Yeah.
ELGINDY: So, the response from the international community has to, I think, be commensurate.
FOSTER: But we've got a major response, haven't we, from, you know, European countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, not making any
difference because this plan followed those calls for, you know, recognition of a Palestinian state. It's not actually going to make much
difference unless America joins that call. Right?
ELGINDY: Yeah, but also the distinction between words and actions. I mean, the response so far, has been angry words. And you cannot meet destructive
actions with simply hand-wringing and angry words. There has to be actions. There need to be consequences.
I think Israel has learned from the 22 months of horror in Gaza that they can tolerate angry words and condemnations all day long, as long as there
are no consequences for the actions like blocking humanitarian aid and using starvation as a policy. Then they will, you know, they will continue
to do those things. And I think that's the lesson that we're seeing played out here.
Israel knows that if it's just words and rhetoric and condemnation, they're -- they're fine to absorb those as long as there are no costs. And by
costs, were talking about, there need to be some sort of sanctions on Israel economically, militarily or diplomatically.
FOSTER: The E1 settlement. Let's talk about the practicalities here. I mean, how close is it to being a reality? What sort of approvals are
needed? When could it happen?
ELGINDY: Yeah. Well, so the approval today there is one final stage of approval that is needed before presumably tenders are issued and contracts
are drawn up and construction workers will break ground at some point in the not too distant future. So, this is the -- this is the most, there have
been threats in the past to start building and in E1 and there have been infrastructure projects like roads and, and so forth. But now, we're
talking about something like 3,400 housing units.
And once those are approved, I believe next week, once they get final approval, there's nothing standing in the way of, of actually breaking
ground.
FOSTER: What happens once its built? I mean, you know, you follow this narrative very closely. I mean, what will they do with the two parts of the
West Bank that will remain?
ELGINDY: Yeah. I mean, if, in fact, it is built, it will be one of many settlements that I think, already exist that disrupt the contiguity of a
future Palestinian state. But this would be the most severe because it would completely block access to Palestinian east Jerusalem from the West
Bank. Which is already sealed up from the north and the south, and now would be closed off from the east as well.
So I think in the future, if it is built, and the international community wants to create a two-state solution this settlement project will have to
be dismantled. There's simply no way around it. It is, as we've heard from both supporters and opponents of a two-state solution. It is the doomsday
settlement for the idea of a Palestinian state.
So if it does get built, it will need to be dismantled. And that, of course, involves considerable, economic as well as political costs.
FOSTER: Yeah. Professor Khalid Elgindy, thank you very much for bringing us, you know, the context around, you know, a major development, which
could be about to happen in the West Bank. Thank you.
ELGINDY: Thank you.
FOSTER: Still to come, anticipation builds ahead of tomorrow's Trump-Putin summit will break down what's at stake, including the U.S. president's
legacy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:28:00]
FOSTER: Returning now to Friday's high stakes, Alaska summit. U.S. President Donald Trump set to meet face to face with Russian President
Vladimir Putin for the first time in almost a decade, Mr. Putin will once again step on U.S. soil. Ukraine and many of its European allies argue the
White House is handing him a victory on the global stage by giving him a meeting with President Trump without Ukrainian President Volodymyr
Zelenskyy not invited to the summit is Zelenskyy, who has instead been rallying European support.
Earlier today, he met with the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, here in London. Zelenskyy says they discussed security guarantees in detail.
This comes amid a rush of diplomacy as European leaders present a united front before the Trump-Putin Alaska summit. It's on Friday, tomorrow as the
Putin-Trump summit draws near Ukrainians near the fear, the possibility of land swaps as any peace deal would involve agreements on territory. Russia
currently occupies nearly a fifth of Ukraine's land.
Our chief national security correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, looks at the key areas that President Putin has his eyes on.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH: Any peace deal in Ukraine is going to ultimately be about land. And when president Trump talks about swapping territories, this is Russian
occupied areas, but its these three parts here black surrounded, that have always been part of Russian President Vladimir Putins most maximalist war
goals. It's what he wants.
The lines we've drawn as best as we can here, but the stakes are incredibly high. Any minor inaccuracy of my pen could be a place that thousands of
people have fought and died for, or still live. Now, in just recent days, there's been a tiny advance here by the Russians, but its significant and
caused some concern and even denials and reinforcements sent from Kyiv. But this Donetsk area is potentially, if we understand what the kremlins
proposed somewhere, they want Ukrainians to withdraw from entirely in exchange for a ceasefire.
[15:30:01]
And look at it. It's a huge area. What could they give back these tiny border parts occupied by Russia, a buffer zone? President Putin calls it.
But it's hardly a fair exchange. And so, the real hard to solve question what happens to Zaporizhzhia here and Kherson.
Now, Russia occupies probably about two thirds of each, but Putin wants all of it. They were kicked out. The Russians here in the first year of the
war. But it's impossible to imagine Ukraine deciding to pull out of massive areas like this, and equally impossible to imagine that Russians will give
up a big strategic gain of a land corridor that they managed to take when the invasion began down to Crimea that they've held since 2014. That's the
sticking point. And there's very little obvious way through it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Well, while Mr. Trump says he's looking for a peace deal, the Russian president is expected to bring a number of other issues to the
table. Mr. Putin is praising the Trump administration, calling its efforts to stop the conflict in Ukraine energetic and sincere. The Kremlin hinting
that it could also try to strike a nuclear arms deal with Washington.
Let's bring in Fred Pleitgen, who is keeping a close eye on all of this.
We were talking yesterday, Fred, about how we didn't actually know much about the kremlin way into this meeting. But now we find out it's extremely
broad. What's the strategy, do you think.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it's extremely broad and I think the Russians have shown today that this meeting
is extremely important to them. We obviously have Vladimir Putin coming out earlier today in the meeting with really some of his top officials in the
government and telling them some of the goals that he has for the summit, calling President Trump's initiative energetic and sincere, and then also
hinting that possibly there could be broader agreements in other areas as well. And just the makeup also of the Russian delegation, which was also
made public earlier today by a senior Kremlin aide that also indicates for the Russians how seriously they take this, and then also how broad their
agenda is as well. If you have, for instance, not just senior Kremlin aides and the Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, there, but also the defense
minister, who's extremely important, of course, right now, as the conflict in Ukraine drags on.
But the finance minister, too, and of course, the Russians have been hinting at possible business deals and, of course, for their desire to have
sanctions relief. Also, I was actually Max, earlier today able to speak to one of the delegation members for the Russians who is currently actually
traveling to Alaska to be part of that summit. And here's what he had to say about how things are unfolding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: President Trump has threatened severe consequences if there's no movement towards a ceasefire. What's Russia hoping to get out of this
meeting?
KIRILL DMITRIEV, CEO OF THE RUSSIAN DIRECT INVESTMENT FUND: Well, I think dialogue is very important, and I think it's a very positive meeting for
the world because during Biden administration, no dialogue was happening. So I think it's very important to hear Russian position directly. And
there's lots of misunderstandings, misinformation about the Russian position. And it's also a chance to sort of reset if the meeting goes,
well, U.S.-Russia relations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PLEITGEN: That was Kirill Dmitriev speaking to me earlier today. The head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, and really, someone who's been the
point person here on the ground in Moscow for all of those meetings between the envoy Steve Witkoff of the Trump administration and Russian leader
Vladimir Putin, of course, the last one happening just last week, which has now led to this summit in Alaska.
But the point there being clear him speaking about a possible reset of U.S.-Russia relations. And I think that an ideal scenario for the Russians
is what they would be looking for, for Ukraine to be one of the topics on the table. Certainly, the most important one, but then also to speak about
other things, like, for instance, sanctions relief, like, for instance, business deals in the future, like, for instance, doing things together in
the arctic, where of course, both countries have some pretty big interests.
The U.S. with raw commodities in places like Alaska and, of course, the Russians as well, with things like rare earths, oil and gas. Also in the
Arctic region as well, Max.
FOSTER: Okay, Fred. Thank you. You'll be watching tomorrow like the rest of us. What we don't know is, will Donald Trump ask Ukraine to give up land?
Joining me now, Neil Melvin, director of International Security Studies at the Royal United Services Institute.
Thank you for joining us.
We're probably not going to get the answer to that tomorrow, are we? But we might get a hint at how Donald Trump sees a deal playing out in future.
NEIL MELVIN, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY STUDIES, RUSI: Yeah, I mean, there's been enormous speculation ahead of this summit. And we just heard,
I think, from one of your reporters, there are many different ways that this summit could go. I think most likely we would like to see sort of a
broad agreement on some framework for further talks. And then, as Trump himself has said, the second the follow up meeting that they're already
talking about, possibly in Europe, but with Zelenskyy and maybe some European leaders present, that may be actually where they get into the
details, which are going to be much more important.
FOSTER: When we say Ukraine giving up land, what are we talking about there? Because I think the Ukrainian view is they might not control all of
the land after all of this, but they'll still own it.
[15:35:00]
Technically, it will be occupied. What's your understanding?
MELVIN: Well, there was quite a bit of confusion, I think, after President Trump's representative, Witkoff, met with Putin about what precisely was
being proposed. Initially, it seemed that there was some idea that Ukraine might be actually forced to give up the land that it currently controls,
because Russia wants to claim the whole of the Donbas region. And Ukraine flatly rejected that idea.
That seems to be pulled back from now, in part because the European leaders have weighed in and said, we cant have this land swap idea. And now the
focus seems to be on starting with the line of control sort of contact, where the two armies are facing each other and working back from there, in
which some kind of de facto recognition of Russian control of these occupied territories has now including the possibility maybe even to
conduct economic activities there. There's reports of a possible deal on rare earths and minerals being worked in that area. So not de jure
recognition of Russian ownership, but de facto recognition of Russian control.
FOSTER: But will Russia be happy with that? Surely, they'd want that to become part of the Russian state?
MELVIN: Well, I think this is why this is just a first step, because Russia's ultimate aim is clearly to win in Ukraine. Putin still believes
that he can achieve his goals militarily, and those goals are very expansive. He wants to actually end the existence of the Ukrainian state in
its current form, and the idea there's a Ukrainian nation. He doesn't want to give up on that.
So I think he'll be certainly wanting to drag out these negotiations, these discussions to give the impression for Trump that there is a process
underway, but actually to also allow Russia to continue to prosecute the war, but to see itself as an equal on the world stage with the United
States in this summit recognizes in a way that Putin is someone of the stature that Trump can meet and discuss not just Ukraine, but wider global
issues.
FOSTER: What do you make of this sort of broadening of the agenda that appears to have come from the Russian side? Discussion about a possible
nuclear deal, for example? I mean, you know, it does complicate the meeting in many ways, doesn't it? It makes it much broader and less able to really
delve into specific issues around the war, for example.
MELVIN: That's been a long term Russian goal is to see that they can position themselves as a great power alongside United States and China and
be recognized as a key player in creating a new world order and having these kind of meetings.
And so right from the beginning, the Russians have been keen to talk about the Middle East, about nuclear issues, about the possibility of doing
economic deals. I think in the Arctic is one idea. And so, they will be trying to do that. And Putin will no doubt go into this meeting with this
as a key sticking point to actually broaden the agenda to put Ukraine into this bigger context, because that also gives them more leverage to play
across those different issues and to take the focus away from Ukraine.
FOSTER: And Neil Melvin, we'll be watching. Thank you.
Now, can you name the first 12 U.S. presidents? If so, you're already smarter than the new version of ChatGPT. After the break, we'll look at why
the new version gets so much wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:41:39]
FOSTER: OpenAI launched its latest version, its ChatGPT-5, with great fanfare last week, saying GPT-5 would be like talking to a PhD level expert
in anything, but that was more hype than reality. It seems users posted hilarious comments across social media platforms. We're learning, for
example, that it can't label a map or recognize a famous face, including American presidents.
OpenAI CEO Sam Altman is promising change after the bumpy fallout.
So, what we want to know is what is going so wrong for ChatGPT.
Joining me now, CNN business writer Allison Morrow.
To be fair, Allison. It was a very ambitious project, but just take us through a few of the things that you've seen go wrong and why you think
that is.
ALLISON MORROW, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR WRITER: Yeah. Max, I don't think you could have planned a worse rollout for a consumer product than what we saw
with OpenAI last week. There were two main problems going into it. First, you had the OpenAI CEO, Sam Altman, was out there telling everyone that
this is going to be OpenAI's iPhone moment. I mean, he compared it to when iPhones went from pixelated, kind of grainy pictures to retina display that
we enjoy now.
Huge moment in tech history. And he kept hyping it and saying what a game changer it was going to be for the industry. And then secondly, without
warning, the product that they released superseded all the previous products that people have been getting used to.
The previous versions of ChatGPT that people had gotten, you know, built into their workflows and their lives. And these power users who are using
it every day said, whoa, whoa, whoa. This new system is completely different.
And the backlash was immediate. 24 hours after they launched GPT-5, they had to announce changes. Now, if you're a paid subscriber, you can toggle
between which version of ChatGPT you get, but overall, it was just kind of a dud relative to what the hype was made it out to be.
FOSTER: What could they do about this? Presumably, it has to learn its way out of this.
MORROW: If the A.I. can learn, yes, that would be ideal, but there's a lot of doubt about the technological feasibility of how good these networks can
actually get. You know, I often get painted as a skeptic when I -- when I point this out, but I'm excited for A.I. if it can do all the things that
it promises.
And this is a problem that the industry is bumping up against more and more because the hype keeps growing, the promises keep growing, but the actual
result tends to be, you know, just kind of an incremental progress here and there. Sometimes it's faster, sometimes the large language model gets a
little bit better at doing math or solving riddles, but ultimately it needs to work for consumers, and we haven't seen that yet.
FOSTER: No. Okay, Allison, it's so interesting. Thank you.
MORROW: Thanks.
FOSTER: Taylor Swift giving us fresh details about her highly anticipated 12th album. Speaking on a podcast hosted by her boyfriend Travis Kelce and
his brother Jason, Swift said "Life of a Show Girl" would look back on her time on the road during her historic Eras Tour. The pop star also got
candid about her family and her relationship with Kelce.
Here's a snippet of the conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON KELCE, COHOST, "NEW HEIGHTS": So, we're going to ask the question. Everybody watching the show is currently asking, why are you coming on the
show?
[15:45:01]
Why? What are you doing? You have so many better things to do with your time.
TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: This podcast has done a lot for me. I owe a lot to this podcast. This podcast got me a boyfriend ever since Travis decided to
use it as his personal dating app about two years ago.
KELCE: So, it worked pretty good.
SWIFT: Yeah. Hey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Lisa Respers France is with me.
It's good fun, isn't it? But, you know, we haven't really found out anything about the album yet, but we're still hanging on her every word.
There's just not much.
I mean, tell us what we need to know, Lisa.
LISA RESPERS FRANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we do know a little bit about the album, Max. We know that she is reunited with two of her OG producers,
Shellback and Max Martin, who she worked with on, like, her Red album and some of her big hits like "Blank Space" and things like that.
So, we know that she's back with them. She's very excited for this album, she said. This is the album she's always wanted to make. We know that there
are 12 songs on the album, and the last song on the album is a collaboration with Sabrina Carpenter, another really hot artist right now.
So, you know, I think people are most excited about this because Taylor is so excited. It's her 12th studio album, getting her closer to her favorite
number, which is the number 13.
There's a whole numerology situation going on that she and Travis talked about last night, because his favorite number is 87. Her favorite number is
13, and together they are 100, Max.
So, you know, we learned so many details. We learned that, you know, he shot his shot on that podcast, which is what she was referencing in the
clip that you played, because he went on there to say that he had made a friendship bracelet at her concert, that he wanted to get to her because it
had his phone number on it, and he wasn't able to meet her, and he was so upset about that. And so, she found out about that. And this is how they
ultimately got together.
So, she means it when she says that that podcast got her a boyfriend, Max.
FOSTER: Yeah. I mean, it's brilliant publicity for both of them. But I mean, you know, her music, what she's done in the past in terms of the
information you've got about the theme that's going to come out here and the type of music we're going to see. What's your best guess?
FRANCE: Well, she has said that unlike some of her past projects, this one is going to be lighter. It is going to be filled with bangers, is what
Travis Kelce said, and she confirmed that. So, I think we're going to see more joyous music because she says that this music is about a time period
in her life when she was just ecstatic and happy. And so, we're not going to see the same type of moody tunes.
I don't think we're going to get the breakup anthems that we've had in the past, because this album is about her time on the Eras Tour, and she was
very happy and very happily in love, as we saw right there.
FOSTER: Yeah, I mean, it's going to be -- we're going to be following every twist and turn, aren't we, Lisa?
FRANCE: Yes, we will.
FOSTER: It's inevitable. Thank you.
FRANCE: Thank you, Max.
FOSTER: Anchorage, Alaska, preparing for two special visitors tomorrow. Guess who they are.
After a break, you'll hear the odd way the mayor of anchorage found out her town was hosting this mega summit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: In less than 24 hours now, U.S. President Donald Trump will touch down in Anchorage, Alaska, for his face-to-face meeting with Vladimir
Putin. They're getting pretty excited as we've been reporting a summit like this would usually take months to prepare, but this one has been put
together in just days.
Earlier, the mayor of Anchorage spoke to CNN about how she discovered the U.S. and Russian presidents were actually coming to her district.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE LAFRANCE, MAYOR OF ANCHORAGE, ALASKA: I found out, along with everyone else, I think I'm on social media. But since that time, my office
has been coordinating with the governor's office, the White House and our military partners on the municipality's role in details around the visit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, locals and tourists in Anchorage seem to have mixed views about the impending arrival of President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I found -- I found it ironic that we were going to be here when my two favorite dictators were going to be in the city. No. I
just think it's a distraction to alleviate some of the other issues Trump is facing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's great. I mean, Alaska is very vital to the United States, and it's a prominent state for, you know, the red state as
you could say. Trump is a big you know, factor here. And, I think it'd be great for us to have it here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our tour group is leaving today, so we won't be here. But if we were here. I would not be anywhere near it. I'd be opposite of
the town. I'd be on the other side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Zachariah Hughes is a reporter at the Anchorage Daily News, joins us live from Anchorage, Alaska. Thanks for joining us. I mean, in terms of
politics, it's always going to be controversial, isn't it?
But how are the logistics playing out? Because rarely are events like this scramble together so quickly.
ZACHARIAH HUGHES, REPORTER, ANCHORAGE DAILY NEWS: Yeah, I would say it's been a guessing game for a lot of the local partners that are involved in
this. You know, we found out only a, gosh, less than a week ago that this was happening at all. And since then, I think the first phase of planning
was, is this real? And then after the weekend, things started to firm up a little bit.
So, the state of Alaska has been working, I gather, with, military officials over at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson kind of an air force army
base, but a huge installation. And that's the venue that's going to host both of the leaders and a pretty sizable press and a diplomatic outage as
we understand it.
FOSTER: Yeah. I mean, are you hoping to get some, you know you know, the right profiling of the area or do you just expect us to see the pair
shaking hands? I mean, how is it going to reflect on Alaska, do you think, in Anchorage?
HUGHES: I think a lot of that will be determined by Russian President Vladimir Putin, who I gather has pretty keen interest in the historical
role that Alaska has had with Russia. So, I think any remarks that we hear from him will, be a big deal? You know, both locally and in terms of the
geopolitical significance here, I don't expect the town itself of Anchorage to play that big of a role.
We believe that at least some of the MVPs will be flying into our civilian airport. Ted Stevens International even though the meeting itself is set to
happen at a military base that's -- you know, a few miles away. So, we may see some motorcades and, and individuals transiting through on their way
there. But as far as anyone is aware, their town is not expected to be a, you know, a main character in what's happening there. And it should mostly
be confined to the military base.
FOSTER: I mean, what are you talking about there in terms of how we might frame Alaska and Russian history?
HUGHES: Well, gosh, I mean, the Russian history starts in the 18th century, and there was a pretty long standing commercial interest that the Russian-
American company took. They had a capital in what's now called Sitka. Back then was new archangel. They had a presence in several coastal parts of
Alaska.
And even today, you'll still see communities with Russian orthodox churches and congregations. A lot of people have Russian surnames. And some of those
areas, you know, the Russian presence was never very large. There were never more than a few hundred people, most of them trappers and a lot of
former convicts from prisons in mainland Russia and Siberia who were brought over kind of as conscripts for the fur trade.
You know, the state also was built up in large part during the Cold War to act as a check and a sort of observation post and a military garrison. You
know, when the Soviet Union was our main geopolitical, adversary. So there's still a lot of military installations, personnel, equipment,
strategizing, that's oriented towards Russia.
FOSTER: That's going to be lows to write about, isn't there for all of us.
Zachariah, thank you so much for joining us.
I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
END
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