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What We Know with Max Foster

NATO Intercepts Three Russian Jets Over Estonia's Airspace; Judge Rejects Trump's $15B Lawsuit Against New York Times; Source: FCC Chair's Threat Played Role In ABC's Kimmel Decision; Trump To Impose $100,000 Fee On H-1B Visas; Former Epstein Prosecutor Testifies In U.S. House; IDF: Less Than Half Of Residents Remain In Gaza City; Trump Says Progress Made With Xi On TikTok Deal. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired September 19, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:36]

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: A new and, quote, extremely dangerous provocation from Russia.

I'm Christina Macfarlane and this is WHAT WE KNOW.

We start with a third incursion into NATO airspace in just days. Now it's Estonia that's reporting a violation, saying three Russian MiG fighter jets

circulated without permission and remained over its territory for 12 minutes. In the last 10 days, Russian drones violated the airspace of

Poland and Romania. Also, members of the alliance.

Over in Ukraine, Russia has made significant advances on the battlefield. This is the northeastern region of Kharkiv, where the situation on the

front line is critical according to the Ukrainian military, and Russian troops are closing in on the strategic city of Kupiansk.

Romania's airspace was breached by Russian drones almost a week ago, with its defense ministry criticizing Moscow's, quote, "irresponsible actions".

Well, last hour, the Romanian foreign ministry minister spoke to my colleague Isa Soares. She addressed the significance of Estonia, invoking

NATO's Article Four.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OANA TOIU, ROMANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: In real terms, it means the country that invokes the article, in this case, Estonia, has been the case of

Poland is a country that fills its own security at risk, and the security of one of us is the security of all of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Nic Robertson is here. Back with me to discuss more on this. And obviously, as we were hearing there, Article Four has been invoked as

it was last week during the incursion of the drones into Poland. But we're learning new detail as well, Nic, about another provocation, another

flyover above a Polish oil platform in the Baltic Sea that happened around the same time as this.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, it seemed to be maybe a couple of hours later. It's not clear if it was the same MiG 31

very fast Russian fighter jets or different fighter jets, two of them Polish border guards, say that they spotted this, over this particular oil

platform. It does appear it has the appearances of Russia tweaking NATO along that eastern border. It's not clear what will happen from here, but

if we follow the example of Article Four being triggered by Poland over the incursion of those drones and the response to send additional fighter

aircraft there, that seems to be the direction were headed in, potentially for Estonia.

And we know that the Italians were involved in the NATO response to those three MiG 31 fighter jets in Estonian airspace. The Estonian prime minister

described the jets as being chased away.

MACFARLANE: And NATO have come out and said that their response was quick and decisive. But this comes at a time when Western intelligence are still

deliberating over what actually happened last week with that drone incursion, whether it was deliberate from Russia. And it seems that Putin

has taken advantage of that deliberation.

ROBERTSON: And yes, the confusion that there appears to be within the European or NATO intelligence communities is something that he thrives on.

If he can spot that, then hell find a way to sort of try to wedge it open further.

But it was interesting listening to the Romanian, minister speaking earlier with Isa Soares. She said, look, that may be the case for what the

intelligence officials within NATO are saying. But she said, look at what Ursula von der Leyen, the European commission president, said today. The

European Union's position on those 21 drone incursions into Polish airspace is that this was intentional.

So, the European Union is taking it as intentional. And that was one of the reasons that Ursula von der Leyen today called on E.U. nations to step up

sanctions on Russia because of those violations and the violations of Romanian airspace.

MACFARLANE: And it was noteworthy, I think, as you were pointing out earlier today, Nic, that the timing of this coming just after the statement

by the high representative, Vice President Kaja Kallas, proposing that 19th round of sanctions on Russia.

ROBERTSON: Yeah. And as well, it's notable that Kaja Kallas is the former prime minister of Estonia. The fly these three MiGs were over her country.

She is now, of course, and has responsibility for the sort of biggest foreign policy portfolio high representative of the European Union. So it's

not a -- she is not in a position to speak specifically for Estonia, rather, the European Union.

[15:05:03]

It's hard to know what the machinations would be on the Russian side. But I think writ large, what is happening here. And again, the Romanian minister

spoke about that. It's having the opposite effect of whatever Russia wants to achieve. It's achieving greater speed, greater and stronger NATO unity,

and a speedier decision making and getting reinforcements to that eastern border, which is something that Putin has said that is opposed to. That was

one of his rationales for going to war in Ukraine, that NATO was getting too close.

Well, NATO keeps pointing out they are perhaps not closer, but they are there in bigger numbers and ready to react more quickly than previous.

MACFARLANE: And they certainly reacted quickly this time.

Nic, appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, a federal judge is tossing out President Donald Trump's $15 billion defamation lawsuit against "The New York Times". In his ruling, the judge

wrote that the complaint from U.S. president legal team was more of a rambling PR stunt than a cohesive legal argument, describing it as

decidedly improper and impermissible. The president's team says attorneys are planning to refile a suit within a month.

I want to bring in Hadas Gold to discuss this from New York.

And, Hadas, this was a pretty damning response from the federal judge.

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it was a pretty epic takedown of this $15 billion defamation lawsuit that President Trump had filed against

"The New York Times". He also included a publisher and some reporters in this defamation lawsuit. But the judge in this case, who I should note is

actually a Republican appointed judge who was appointed by former President George H.W. Bush. He issued a very kind of damning ruling, not so much

about the merits of the case, but about how Trump's legal team filed this case. He noted this was an 85-page long complaint, and that it doesn't get

to the case of the two components to the two complaints of defamation until page 80.

And he talks about how the rest of the 85 pages is spent rehashing allegations, talking about President Trump's father, his acquisition of

wealth, his many properties he's owned, the books that he's written, talks about his media appearances, the history of "The Apprentice" show, and goes

on to the other legal actions he's taken. And this is in the judge's words, he says there are many, often repetitive and laudatory toward president

Trump, but superfluous allegations. And the judge in this case says that these types of complaints are supposed to be short and plain, direct

statements and allegations of facts. And then, as you noted, he had dismissed this complaint but did say that they can refile within the next

four weeks or so, which President Trump's legal team said that they will.

"The New York Times", for their part, are welcoming this. They say that they welcome the judge's quick ruling, which recognized that the complaint

was a political document rather than a serious legal filing.

MACFARLANE: And elsewhere today, Hadas, of course, we've been tracking a lot of developments related to Jimmy Kimmel, and we're learning more

detail, I think, now about what led up to his removal and also reports that what about why and when he might return?

GOLD: Yeah. So, I do have to know our colleague Elizabeth Wagmeister and Brian Stelter have been doing some really amazing reporting on this, and

from their reporting and other reporting and other news outlets, we are learning about how this all came to be. And Elizabeth has reported that

there was some consternation within ABC even as soon as he made those remarks on Monday. But things really all came to a head on Wednesday when

the FCC commissioner, Brendan Carr, made those pretty much direct threats to ABC station owners, saying they have to decide whether they will

continue to air Kimmel. And that's when station owners started calling ABC. That's when all these meetings started to happen with ABC executives.

And that's why on Wednesday evening, Jimmy Kimmel show was yanked so last minute. It's partly because, according to Elizabeth's reporting, that

management wanted to see how Kimmel was going to address this in his monologue.

And according to her sources, the monologue was a little bit hot. Now, it wasn't exactly maybe fanning the flames as much as some people would want

to believe. But the executives wanted him to take the temperature down more and make, you know, give a monologue that would take the temperature down.

And they didn't feel as though that monologue was going to do so. And so, they pulled him off the air.

Other things that were happening behind the scenes was that employees at Disney, employees at ABC were getting threats. People were starting to

publish their email addresses and other things. And so, there was also a security concern as well.

Now, executives are expressing hope that he will return. This is according to Elizabeth's reporting. But there is absolutely no sense of when or how

or what this will look like. There are reports that Jimmy Kimmel has been meeting with Disney executives alongside his lawyer and his manager, to try

to figure out a way forward, but it's not exactly clear how or when that will happen.

You have to keep in mind also that his contract is going to end in May of 2026, and he had already joked before when he signed this contract that he

was already going to start doing a quiet quitting of sorts. So, there is a big question out there of whether Jimmy Kimmel himself actually wants to

return after all of this that has happened.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, there's plenty more to come, isn't there? We'll watch the space to see Kimmel's next move as and when he makes it. Hadas Gold there

from New York.

[15:10:00]

Thank you.

And some news just in to CNN. The Trump administration is going to impose a $100,000 fee on H-1B visas.

Kristen Holmes is at the White House for us.

Kristen, what can you tell us about this?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: So this will be part of an executive order. And essentially what they are saying is that these

companies would have to pay this $100,000 to actually get these H-1B visas.

So, who does this impact? Well, the H-1B visas are for employers who are specifically looking outside of the U.S. because they're looking for a

specific skill set that they say can't be found within the U.S.

So they're looking at a potential foreign employees. It's a temporary visa. But in recent years, there has been some concern that these companies have

gone around the system, around looking at a U.S. job pool and instead gone straight to hiring these foreign employees and taking the opportunities

away from U.S. citizens.

Part of what you're seeing here is an extraordinary amount of money for a visa, $100,000 is huge. What that does, it essentially makes it harder. But

it also puts out this hurdle that says you have to really want this employee. You have to really believe that their skill set is unmatched with

an employee within the United States.

And the other part of this is that clearly there is some belief that the companies that generally seek out this type of visa and this type of

employee can afford $100,000. Of course, one of the things we know is many of the companies that do end up getting H-1B visas and seeking these

employees with these specialty skill sets are in technology. So likely would have some of the funding there to be able to pay for this.

MACFARLANE: All right. Thanks for bringing us up to date. Kristen there from the White House, thank you.

Turning now to the attorney who negotiated a plea deal for the late financier and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who is testifying

before Congress. Alexander Acosta is the former U.S. attorney from Miami. Acosta helped Epstein avoid a federal trial with a plea deal. It allowed

him to serve 13 months in prison for state prostitution charges with underage girls.

Annie Grayer is live from Capitol Hill.

What are you hearing about what is -- what's been going on in this hearing?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Well, this closed door interview has been going on for hours, and there's no end in sight.

And from the lawmakers who have come out to speak to reporters throughout this, throughout the interview process, it seems like it's gotten pretty

contentious in there. Democrats spoke to -- I spoke to a number of Democrats in the room who said that they don't see Acosta as credible,

because they say that Acosta doesn't see anything wrong with the plea deal that he negotiated in 2008.

Now, when that -- after that plea deal in 2019, federal prosecutors did bring criminal charges to Epstein and sent him to prison, and for a

participating in a sex trafficking ring. And that really put into question Acosta's role back in 2008. The question was, why weren't these charges

discovered when Acosta first looked at it back then?

So, in 2019, Acosta was serving as Trump's labor secretary for President Trump's first term and actually ended up resigning from that post because

of all the controversy surrounding his role in 2008 with that plea deal. So, Acosta's 2008 plea deal with Epstein is now coming under renewed

scrutiny as a result of Congress revisiting this entire investigation, lawmakers have been getting documents from the Department of Justice. They

just received bank records from the Treasury Department, from Jeffrey Epstein's estate.

And this is a big interview that both Republicans and Democrats have been waiting for. And we are still waiting for it to wrap up today.

MACFARLANE: All right. Well, we'll continue to keep eyes on it.

Annie Grayer, thank you for now.

President Trump and Chinese Leader Xi Jinping have held their first phone call since June. Xi says the conversation was candid and in depth, and that

he told Trump to avoid imposing unilateral trade restrictions. Trump cited progress on several fronts, including trade and Ukraine, and said the two

leaders have agreed to a series of in-person meetings.

The leaders were expected to finalize a deal that would sell most of TikTok's U.S. assets to American investors. Trump said they, quote, made

progress on that.

Now, in Illinois, a Chicago area mayor running for Congress says federal agents tear gassed him at a protest outside an Immigration and Customs

Enforcement facility on Friday. And he says agents tried to drive a van into the protesters. The video shows an officer throwing to the ground

another protester, who is also running for Congress. It happened in Broadview, Illinois, which has drawn small protests following word of an

imminent large scale immigration enforcement campaign.

CNN's Maria Santana is there.

And, Maria, we're just seeing some video of that incident. It really seemed pretty forceful. What more are you learning about what happened?

[15:15:00]

MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, I just want to show you what's going on right now. This is what we have been seeing pretty much throughout

the day. And its, you know, just a small group of protesters here right now. There were a lot more people here this morning, very early this

morning.

But what we see is that the protesters are getting close to the gate. As soon as they do, the agents seem to come out and they begin to try to get

them to cross the street. When several cars have come out of the gate, they've begun to push the protesters. And on several occasions, they have

thrown pepper balls and tear gas. The protesters, when we actually first arrived, we got tear-gassed as well, that's why we're holding our -- our

gas masks.

And it becomes very difficult to breathe, very difficult to talk. Your eyes are very watery. They've done that a few times since we have been here. One

time, I just saw the protesters sitting here on the street. They were chanting, they were cursing, obviously, you know, provoking the agents, but

no one had either rushed to building or approached any of the officers. They were just upset, cursing at them.

And that's when, the agents began shooting the tear gas. That's when we were hit. It was surprising to me because, again, I just saw protesters

sitting on the street chanting but earlier there were a lot more people. It was a lot more confrontational. We saw several altercations between the

agents and the protesters, who have all these signs saying, abolish ICE.

What's clear from the people here -- the people demonstrating is that they don't want the federal agents in Chicago. They don't want this immigration

crackdown. That's what they're saying, that the Trump administration says that they're coming after the worst of the worst criminals, people with

criminal records, but instead that what they're arresting are hardworking immigrants, immigrants that have been part of communities for decades who

have children, children who are U.S. citizens and then and then, you know, they -- that's happening. They're pulling these people out of communities,

and that's what they're upset about.

I mean, he's talking about the people washing their eyes over here, who were just pepper sprayed. You know, I'll show you what's going on. Like I

said, this has been happening throughout the day. Sometimes it gets quiet, sometimes the crowds disperse. They have been playing an automatic message

asking the protesters to disperse saying that they're in violation of federal law and that they could be hit with projectiles that could cause

injury.

But these protesters say that they are here throughout the day. This protest is supposed to go on through at least 8:00 p.m., and they're

expecting more people to perhaps show up after the work hours here in Illinois.

MACFARLANE: Yeah. And it certainly looks, Maria, from our standpoint here, that that could be a very volatile situation behind you. We hope it

doesn't, you know, move towards that. Do you know what happened to that mayor who was running for Congress and indeed the other Congress? I think

it was congresswoman who the candidate, the other candidate, the Congress candidate, who was also forcibly moved out of the way.

SANTANA: Yes. So elected leaders just here in Illinois and just throughout the country have been showing up at detention centers. If there's a

protest, they want to join in solidarity. That's what the mayor of Evanston was doing here, Brandon Bliss, and he said you know, that he was hit with

the tear gas when, there was a confrontation between the protesters and the agents.

We have seen in other states here as well where, elected officials who say it is their constitutional duty to inspect these places to see the

conditions inside, that they should be allowed inside. They haven't been. And then they get arrested for trespassing or for what they've said has

been aggression towards the agents.

In New York last night, 11 elected officials were actually arrested after joining a protest in Lower Manhattan at another detention center. So that's

been happening. What we know, here in Illinois is that the governor has said that he doesn't want these agents either, that the Trump

administration has not coordinated with the governor, with local officials, and that this is really just a scare tactic, just another disgusting power

grab by the Trump administration. That's what the governor here has said.

Now, we haven't seen military, no National Guards, as we've seen in D.C. and other cities yet in Illinois. But Trump has threatened to send them

very, very soon.

MACFARLANE: All right, Maria, we appreciate your reporting. And please do stay safe there. Thank you.

Okay. Coming up, I speak to an organization that's working to get desperately needed medical care for Gaza's children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:23:05]

MACFARLANE: The United Nations is warning that the last remaining lifelines for people in Gaza City are collapsing as Israel pushes on with its

incursion there. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are attempting to flee south. Many with only the belongings they can carry with them. Despite

calls for the evacuation, the IDF estimates that roughly half of Gaza City residents 450,000 people are still sheltering in the city. Thousands of

children in Gaza need urgent medical care. The Palestinian children's relief fund is an organization working in Gaza, which has been evacuating

children from the strip to get them that medical treatment.

Its director of global patient affairs is a friend of Children's YouTube entertainer Ms. Rachel, who has been using her platform to draw attention

to the realities inside Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MR. TAREQ: Assalamualaikum.

MS. RACHEL: Hi. I'm here with my friend Mr. Tareq. Mr. Tareq is in medical school, and soon, he'll become a doctor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: So, what we want to know is how can aid agencies help the children of Gaza?

Joining me now is Tareq Hailat, director of global patient affairs at the Palestine Children's Relief Fund.

Tareq, it is so great to speak to you again. The second time I've had the opportunity to do so. The last time we spoke, I think was in July, and you

told me then that your organization had been able to evacuate more than 250 children. I think it was from Gaza to countries in the Middle East to

Europe to the United States.

But things have changed since then. Last month, the U.S. stopped issuing visas for Gaza's children to access medical care. And I want to know how

that has been impacting your work in that time.

TAREQ HAILAT, DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL PATIENT AFFAIRS, PALESTINE CHILDREN'S RELIEF FUND: Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me here

today. It's wonderful being here with you.

[15:25:00]

Obviously, it's been very impactful. We've not been able to evacuate a single child since then to the United States. And obviously, the United

States has a great health care infrastructure that can support so many of these children that need that desperate medical care. And it's been

difficult.

And we've been trying to navigate and expand our local treatment modalities. And so opening up more modalities in Egypt, in Jordan, Lebanon

and the surrounding region so that we can treat those children there regionally.

So we've been having trying to adapt, but this is not something that we didn't expect to happen. And so, for months now, we've been preparing for

that exact same scenario. And that's why we've been kind of expanding our local and regional medical infrastructure.

MACFARLANE: Why did you expect that to happen?

HAILAT: You know, we have to expect the unexpected. We've been doing that since day one. We've been on the ground in Gaza since day one. There's not

been a single day that we've stopped since prior to October 7th, during October 7th and after October 7th.

So, this idea of working inside of Gaza means that we always have to think about the impossible and find a solution for that impossible. And we're

still doing that every single day. And we expect more impossible situations to occur very, very soon.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, it's impacted your work, but it's also impacted those girls and children who are left in transit, a lot of them, because of their

inability now to get to the U.S. But I want to focus on some of the success stories you've had in order to tell people, you know, the importance of the

work you've been doing, because for some of the children you've been treating, the transformation is remarkable.

I think we have images of two of the children that you've been working with, Fadi al-Zant and Rahaf Ayat.

HAILAT: Yes.

MACFARLANE: We're seeing images of them here. And you know what? I actually recognize these children. I have seen them on, you know, on TV, on social

media. Can you tell me about their stories?

HAILAT: Yeah. God, that picture is so haunting to this day. Both of those pictures.

Rahaf and Fadi are what I would say is the face of malnutrition inside of Gaza. And when I saw these pictures, I -- you know, all of us at PCRF could

not fathom not finding any way to help out.

And so, Fadi al-Zant is a child that we evacuated from the north of Gaza to the south of Gaza. At that time, no child was allowed to go from north to

south, and so we had to sit there for weeks on end and work against the clock of him dying to be able to evacuate him to the south of Gaza, build a

pathway for him to come down, which thankfully we did. And at that point, hundreds of other children benefited from that exact same pathway.

Then, we evacuated him to Egypt and then from Egypt to New York. In New York, he stayed there and received excellent medical care. And one of the

points that I keep hearing day in and day out is that, you know, a child, yes, there is no malnutrition problem because these people have preexisting

condition.

That doesn't make sense to me because, look, Fadi al-Zant has a preexisting condition. He has cystic fibrosis and yet still, even though he has a

preexisting condition, we took him out. He received that nutritional support and that medical support.

And now look at him. He is healed. He's back in Egypt.

MACFARLANE: And these images we're seeing here.

HAILAT: I mean, this is just incredible. So, this excuse of a preexisting condition does not make sense to me whatsoever.

MACFARLANE: Looks like a completely different child.

HAILAT: Completely different child.

MACFARLANE: And so tell us about Rahaf.

HAILAT: Yeah. Rahaf is the same. Rahaf was to a point where Israel really blocked off all the borders of pulling any of these children out, and we

had to get a lot, a lot of advocacy support to pull Rahaf out. And thankfully, that was the last flight to the UAE.

Since then, there hasn't been any more flights to the UAE, and Rahaf and her family were on that last flight after a lot of advocacy. And now, she's

in the UAE. She's healing, she's making videos supporting her people back home. And it's the most beautiful thing.

You know, her mother will message me from time to time, and she'll just send me pictures of Rahaf and be like, look, look how she looks now. And

you know, it's just so, so sad. Look at her.

MACFARLANE: The transformation -- well, it speaks for itself, really, doesn't it? And in terms of what your team are facing on the ground now,

look, we know Gaza City is under bombardment. It's actually a catastrophic situation. Children, civilians are dying, and there's this forced

evacuation south.

Your team, I believe, are still on the ground. So how have they been able to operate? Are they able to operate right now?

HAILAT: It is extremely, extremely limited. We've -- we have the only pediatric oncology hospital in Gaza, and it was just bombed twice. There

was more than, I think, 800 kids that were inside that hospital at that time. Thankfully, none of those children were killed in that that

airstrike. But it was a double tap, a tap of warning.

Our team is now evacuating to the south as well because, you know, at the same time, our own workers have their own families and have people that

they love, and they need to protect.

[15:30:09]

And so, our team is now moving south. But since October 7th, we haven't had a single day where we have not been distributing, hundreds of thousands of

milk, diapers, aid, nutritional support for children. And we're still continuing to do so now.

Now, it's very limited. A lot of the questions that I receive is, how do you get aid in at this particular moment? Aid is very limited getting in.

And so, what we actually have to do is buy from inside the Gaza and distribute it to those individuals that can't afford to buy things from

inside Gaza. So, we buy in masses from distributors, and then we distribute those aid distributions to refugee camps.

MACFARLANE: So some is getting through, even though I'm sure the costs are astronomical.

HAILAT: Yes. And it's very, very, very limited. It's just barely not enough.

MACFARLANE: And just finally, then your message to people, to countries who are still questioning whether they should take in Gazan children and for

medical evacuation.

HAILAT: Well, the last message I remember when I was here was that I said, the U.K. needs to now, we've provided the first two children from a private

pathway. Now they need to implement government pathway.

It's been a little late. It's two years now, but thankfully, they've brought in the first ten children and hopefully many more children will be

here to receive that medical treatment. And I -- I am pleading for the other countries, the European countries, the regional countries to also

open up their borders to accept more children to receive medical treatment in those countries.

MACFARLANE: Well, I hope that will be heard.

And, Tareq, we really appreciate the work you and your team are doing there on the ground. Thank you for coming in.

HAILAT: Thank you so much for having me and for talking about this subject. Thank you.

MACFARLANE: And we'll be right back after this quick break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:12]

MACFARLANE: Donald Trump says there's been progress on keeping TikTok online in the United States, while the White House has spent all year

trying to reach a deal after Congress voted to ban the app during the Biden administration. This deal would see most of TikTok's U.S. assets sold to

American investors.

CNN tech reporter Clare Duffy is joining me now.

So, some approval of the TikTok deal. Do we know any more details yet from the White House about what that might mean?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah. Christina, frankly, there is a lot that we still don't know about the details of this deal and where exactly

the progress stands in terms of finalizing this agreement. But let's talk about what we do know here. We know that President Trump and Chinese

President Xi had a phone call this morning where they supposedly made progress on this TikTok agreement.

This call was meant to finalize the deal framework that was agreed upon by U.S. and Chinese officials during trade talks in Madrid earlier this week.

I want to read to you what President Trump posted on truth social after that phone call today.

He said: We made progress on many very important issues, including trade, fentanyl, the need to bring the war between Russia and Ukraine to an end,

and the approval of the TikTok deal. The phone call was a very good one. We will be speaking again by phone. Appreciate the TikTok approval and both

look forward to meeting at APEC.

Now, obviously, it's not clear there whether that means they made progress towards TikTok approval or whether there was in fact approval and agreement

on this TikTok deal. CNN has asked the White House for more clarification on that point.

And so, we're hoping, obviously, to get more information from the White House about where exactly things stand here. But if the deal framework that

was agreed upon earlier this week is what is agreed upon and approved by both sides here, that would see a coalition of U.S. tech and investment

firms creating a new entity to acquire majority control of TikTok's U.S. assets with Chinese investors retaining about a 20 percent stake in the

company.

There would be a new majority U.S. governing board, with one member appointed by the White House. So that's sort of the framework that were

looking at here, assuming that that is what Trump and Xi discussed on that phone call today.

The other big question that I have is sort of outstanding here is what happens to the TikTok algorithm. This is the special sauce that has made

the app so popular. And China has long said that it is not interested in selling the technology that creates that algorithm. So that could

potentially lead this new U.S. entity in a position where they have to create that technology from scratch themselves. This is something that

TikTok's rivals have been trying to do, not super successfully for a long time.

So that is another big piece of this deal that were hoping to get more information on. What happens to that TikTok algorithm -- Christina.

MCFARLANE: Yeah, that is the long standing security concern, isn't it? We'll wait to see if there's any more light shed on that or indeed on

anything else. Thanks so much for the update for now.

All right. Still to come, Amnesty International is urging world leaders to immediately ban the sale of weapons to Israel, accusing it of genocide.

We'll speak to Amnesty's secretary general.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:41:24]

MACFARLANE: Some news just in to CNN. Flights in Dallas, Texas, have been stopped after radar and communication outages. The Federal Aviation

Administration has stopped flights at the area's two largest airports, including Dallas-Fort Worth, the world's third busiest airport. Audio from

the air traffic control tower at Love Field Airport claimed that it had lost all radar and phone communications. We'll have more on this story as

we get it.

Now, he won't actually be on the world stage, but Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas will address the U.N. General Assembly next week,

despite the U.S. refusal to grant him a visa today. Today, the UNGA voted to allow Abbas to speak by video link. This year's assembly is expected to

be dominated by the war in Gaza, and the fate of the Palestinian people.

Countries, including Britain and Belgium, are expected to formally recognize an independent Palestinian state. Yesterday, the U.S. vetoed a

draft U.N. Security Council resolution that called for an immediate end to the war.

What we don't know is will next week's U.N. meetings make any difference in the Middle East?

Joining me now to discuss is Agnes Callamard, the secretary general of Amnesty International, the human rights movement has made fresh calls this

week for countries to ban the supply of arms to Israel.

Agnes, it's great to have you with us. Thank you for your time.

And I want to begin there. Agnes, on Amnesty International, calling on all states to ban the supply of arms to Israel because we know that the U.S.

are the biggest supplier of arms, accounting for, I think, two thirds of imports to Israel. And today we saw a -- the U.S. veto a ceasefire in Gaza

for the sixth time at the UNSC. So where do you hope to see progress on this issue as we look ahead to world leaders meeting at UNGA next week?

AGNES CALLAMARD, SECRETARY GENERAL, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL: Look, it is very clear that it is almost impossible to shift U.S. position. And support to

Israel. What we are calling on is for the other state, for the rest of the international community to get out of their self-imposed paralysis.

The international community has the capacity to act. They've taken resolution at the general assembly like they did today by a vast majority.

And yet the words are not matched by action. So, our briefing, the briefing that we have released is calling on everyone else, you know, everyone else

to take resolute action so that the supply of weapons is stopped so that there is no transfers of weapons through their port. But not only that, we

are calling on the international community to take action on any economic relations, on any trade that sustain the genocide and that sustain the

unlawful occupation, in keeping with what was required, again, one year ago by a vast majority of the general assembly when they demanded that Israel

stopped its unlawful occupation within 12 months.

MACFARLANE: Yeah, the deadline for which obviously came and went this week with no action from Israel. And we have seen progress -- you know, how

progress can be made without approval from the U.S. on the issue of Palestinian statehood. And we know, of course, U.S. allies are planning to

recognize Palestinian state at the UNGA. Does that sort of action give you hope that a coalition exists that could bring about change and action

outside of the remit of the U.S.?

[15:45:09]

CALLAMARD: Absolutely. It's not just that -- it's also the numbers, the sheer numbers at general assembly resolution that are demonstrating that

there is a global majority demanding an end to the -- to the -- to the -- to the genocide, demanding a ceasefire, demanding the release of the

hostages.

What we are calling for is for those actors, those states that are demanding ceasefire to now act. And the only way to act is through economic

pressure, is through ensuring that trade and investment into Israel is made contingent upon an end to the crimes committed by Israel. That is what

states must do. They really must act on their words.

And yes, they can do it. They must do it. In our briefing, we name 15 companies for which we have direct evidence of contribution to either the

genocide or to the occupation.

But this is a tip of the iceberg. The U.N. database has more than 200 companies. It is a large number of companies that are implicated in

sustaining Israel's crimes.

MACFARLANE: So, you would have seen. Sorry to interrupt, Agnes, but to your point, you would have seen yesterday the E.U. commission calling for the

freeze of trade with Israel. Now, many will argue this comes too late. But is this the sort of action that's going to make a difference? Because it

does have precedent, right?

We have seen economic sanctions, global boycotts on countries like south Africa that led to the unraveling of apartheid. Is this the focus -- this

is where the focus should be at the UNGA next week?

CALLAMARD: Well, it's absolutely the focus within every country. You know multilateral actions may be complicated. The security council is paralyzed,

and the general assembly has limited binding impact. But every state must be banning trade and investment that contributes or are directly linked to

the genocide or the occupation. They must take those actions.

And yes, the G.A. may be an opportunity for them to come together and to find the courage to, to act. That is what we're calling for.

MACFARLANE: Yes.

CALLAMARD: We're very happy that the E.U. is finally getting out of its self-imposed paralysis and moving into action. Every, every government in

the Arab world, the Arab world, has, you know, said the right thing on what's happening. They have failed to act. Yeah.

MACFARLANE: It's an important point to make, and I'm glad you've made it here. I wanted while we have you, if I may, to turn to a different issue. I

know that one of Amnesty International's big focuses is on freedom of speech. And this is a -- you know, something we've been covering

extensively today.

And I wanted to get your thoughts on what we've been seeing in the U.S. this week. The attempted lawsuit against "The New York Times" for

defamation, the removal of Jimmy Kimmel and the threats that have followed to other media organizations to have their licenses pulled.

What are your thoughts and what does all of this signify to you?

CALLAMARD: Shocking. Look, as you said, amnesty international works around the world to expose and document the silencing of dissent and the attacks

on freedom of expression. We do not expect that kind of attacks to happen in the United States, whose hallmark is the First Amendment and the

protection of free speech in a very absolutist fashion, in fact.

So, to say that we are concerned with what we are witnessing is really beyond what we are actually experiencing, we are shocked. The U.S.

government should reverse course urgently. The actions that have been taken against humorists, against journalists, against media companies, in fact,

the use of federal power to put pressure on what should be the editorial freedom of media.

I mean, this is -- this is extremely shocking and extremely concerning for the American people, the American people must you know, take stock of

what's happening to their -- to their country and to their, I think, most cherished values, the first amendment protects you know, a great deal of

speech as long as it does not incite direct violence. Speech must be protected.

[15:50:01]

And right now, we do not have that protection in place. And what we are seeing is, the U.S. administration taking steps to silence -- silence

anyone who criticizes.

MACFARLANE: What would you advise, Agnes? What would you advise --

CALLAMARD: Well --

MACFARLANE: -- media organizations, the general public, to do and to act at this moment?

CALLAMARD: The politics of fear is there. There is no doubt. What we are asking them is to be courageous, is to stand for their values and stand for

their principles. If all the media around the world in the United States, conservative, not conservative, progressive, whatever, come together and

say no.

I have actually seen the so-called conservative media saying that's not acceptable. You cannot be using the federal power in that way to silence

the media and to threaten economic merger. That is not on.

And we need to see far more of that. We need to see a united front on the part of all the media who may be otherwise very different in their outlook.

They need to stand together, because if they don't stand together, they will come after them next. Do not ever think that they will stop with one

or two.

MACFARLANE: Agnes Callamard, it's been really fantastic to have your thoughts on this. And of course, the upcoming UNGA. Thank you so much for

your time.

CALLAMARD: Thank you very much. Thank you.

MACFARLANE: And we will be right back after this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: An update now on the situation in the Dallas area of Texas, where flights have been stopped after radar and communication outages.

The Federal Aviation Administration has stopped flights at the area's two largest airports, including Dallas-Fort Worth. You can see live images

here, of the world's third busiest airport. These pictures you're seeing from DFW right now. The audio from the air traffic control tower at Love

Field airport claimed that it had lost all radar and phone communications. No word yet, though, on when flights will resume.

And finally tonight, some dramatic live pictures of a different kind in the United States. Hawaii's Kilauea volcano is shooting lava once again. This

latest episode is the 33rd one. It's been erupting periodically since December.

[15:55:02]

And look at that, you can see the spectacular lava fountain and skyrocketing geysers. According to officials, it's one of the world's most

active volcanoes.

And in other news concerning the natural world, the blob is back. And this time its stretching across the northern Pacific Ocean. The mass of warm

water was first spotted in 2013 and persisted for several years. It stretches from Japan all the way to the West Coast of the United States,

8,000 kilometers.

Scientists are worried about its repeated nature, which is being fueled by global warming. The anomaly is expected to have a massive negative impact

on marine life, as well as on land. Japan just saw its hottest summer on record, and northern California is seeing higher humidity, which can affect

weather patterns.

And that dystopian note, I will leave you there. My name is Christina Macfarlane, and this is WHAT WE KNOW.

Quest is up next on "quest means business", after the break. Stay with us.

END

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