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What We Know with Max Foster

Police Investigate Manchester Synagogue Attack As Terrorism; Israel Halts Nearly All Flotilla Vessels Trying To Reach Gaza; Trump Threatens Mass Firings, Program Cuts In Shutdown; Hope Fades For Finding Survivors Of Indonesia Disaster. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:26]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Terror at an English synagogue on Yom Kippur.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

British authorities are investigating a deadly attack at a Manchester synagogue as terrorism. Police say two people were killed in the stabbing

and car ramming attack, both members of the Jewish community. Four other people are in hospital. One suspect was shot dead by police. Officials say

they know his identity and they've arrested two other people.

A warning that our next video is disturbing. It shows armed officers at the scene appearing to point their weapons at a person on the ground. Police

say the attacker was wearing what appeared to be a vest, which had an explosive device, though say it wasn't viable, thankfully.

British Prime Minister Keir Starmer spoke earlier after chairing an emergency security meeting. He said the victims were targeted because of

their faith and is vowing to ramp up security to protect Jews.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: To every Jewish person in this country, I also want to say this I know how much fear you will be holding

inside of you. I really do. And so, on behalf of our country, I express my solidarity, but also my sadness that you still have to live with these

fears. Nobody should have to do that. Nobody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Nic Robertson is in Manchester with the very latest.

Nic, this was a quick but ferocious attack. An extraordinary response. It appears as well from the emergency services.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: A very quick response from the emergency services. The police used a coded alert system that they

rarely use. It brought in all the armed officers across the region who quickly surrounded the attacker. But what the police are saying is that the

thing that really prevented more bloodshed was the fact that the -- of the selfless actions of the security staff at the synagogue, whom they say

tried to stop the man getting inside the synagogue that was crowded with people for prayers on this holiest day, Yom Kippur. And it could have been

much worse if the attacker had got inside the synagogue.

Now, the arrests that the police have talked about, two men being arrested, its not clear that they are directly linked to the attacker or if there a

link to the attacker. But what we do know is that these arrests happened barely a quarter of a mile in these quiet residential streets, barely a

quarter of a mile from the synagogue. So, this seems to be quite a local, localized, if you will, situation.

And of course, one of the top priorities for the police is to make sure not only is the attacker no longer a threat, but that there are not other --

there are not coconspirators out there in the community who are planning other actions as well. And of course, the prime minister vowing, as he was

saying, there, additional policing outside of synagogues, outside of Jewish community centers.

When we were driving up here this afternoon, we saw two police officers standing outside a Jewish museum here in Manchester. This whole area has

been flooded with police. You can probably hear the sirens going into the night here. Police helicopters have been up in the past couple of hours as

well, Max.

FOSTER: So, they had security there because you know, that's the case, isn't it? Particularly on Yom Kippur, because they've got bigger crowds in

the synagogues, as usual. But it didn't work, which is, I think, what I understand to be what's so frightening for Jewish people around the U.K.

today, they have brought in extra security, and it still happened.

ROBERTSON: And indeed, what the prime minister is offering for some people will feel too little, too late. I've been speaking to people here today,

you know, who've been trying to get more information, trying to find out what's going on, you know, from the Jewish community here, lived in the

streets here, not able to get past the roadblock at the moment. And what they've been saying is that this is something that they've been fearing

that's been coming for some time because of the rise in antisemitic attacks.

So even though the security and will seen it around Jewish community centers, that maybe a year or so ago would have been one person and it's

been stepped up to two or three people, whether it's a kindergarten school for Jewish children, a synagogue in our communities will have seen that

being stepped up.

[15:05:12]

And as you say, it wasn't enough today because this attack has used a complex attack by ramming his vehicle, then jumping out with a knife and

attack that seems to have been premeditated because he had a knife with him, preplanned because he appears to have picked a day in the Jewish

calendar when he could have counted on a high number of people attending the mosque and even potentially as well, knowing the area enough, knowing

precisely how he would, perpetrate this attack.

Of course, that's the work of the police now, to figure out just what went into it and just how to prevent any more. But without the security

personnel, it could have been much worse, Max.

FOSTER: Nic Robertson, thank you for bringing us that horrifying day for Manchester.

Now, Israel has intercepted nearly all boats in a flotilla headed for Gaza and detained hundreds of passengers, including Swedish climate activist

Greta Thunberg. That's according to organizers. The ships were headed to Gaza to deliver food, water, medicine to civilians.

Flotilla organizers call the interception an illegal attack. Israel says the activists were not interested in aid, but in provocation.

The interception has triggered a global condemnation and demonstrations with protesters gathering in cities from Mexico City to Rome.

CNN's Paula Hancocks has more on how the ships were stopped.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Water sprays the crew of a Gaza-bound aid ship.

(SCREAMS)

The Global Sumud Flotilla says one of its vessels was, quote, deliberately rammed and others targeted by water cannons by the Israeli military.

One by one, dozens of vessels were intercepted in international waters and boarded by Israeli forces. Livestreams were cut, activists detained.

Numerous flotillas have tried to break Israel's 18-year blockade on Gaza in the past, all were intercepted by Israel or came under some form of attack.

This is the largest flotilla to date. Organizers call the interception, quote, an illegal attack, saying they were carrying food, medicine and baby

formula. Israel says the activists were, quote, not interested in aid but in provocation.

As the interceptions began Wednesday night, pro-Palestinian protesters took to the streets in Italy, Turkey and several other countries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is a nonviolent flotilla. We have no weapons. We carry medicine, food and serum to save lives.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Israel released footage of the most famous passenger Swedish activist, Greta Thunberg, saying she is, quote, safe and

healthy.

GRETA THUNBERG, SWEDISH CLIMATE ACTIVIST: If you are watching this video, I have been abducted and taken against my will by Israeli forces. Our

humanitarian mission was non-violent and abiding by international law.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): The Israeli Foreign Ministry says activists are being transported to Israel where their deportation to Europe will be

processed.

In 2010, Israel's military killed nine Turkish nationals when it boarded the Mavi Marmara flotilla trying to break the blockade. It sparked

international outrage.

More than 500 participants from dozens of different countries did not make it through the Israeli blockade nor were they expected to. What they did

was increase international scrutiny on the desperate humanitarian situation in Gaza at a time that Israel finds itself increasingly isolated over its

actions there.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Abu Dhabi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: It's day two of the U.S. government shutdown. Congress remains deadlocked as the political blame game continues. Lawmakers are not on

Capitol Hill today due to the Yom Kippur holiday. Senators are scheduled to hold a vote Friday on the funding deal.

Today, U.S. President Donald Trump plans to meet with the White House budget director to discuss what cuts will be made to federal agencies and

whether they will be permanent as well. The White House is threatening to fire thousands of federal workers.

Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt offered this explanation just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Can you give us an estimate on the amount of federal workers that the Trump administration wants to fire during the government shutdown?

Are we talking hundreds? Are we talking thousands?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, it's likely going to be in the thousands. It's a very good question. And that's something that

the office of management and budget and the entire team at the White House here again, is unfortunately having to work on today. These discussions and

these conversations, these meetings would not be happening if the Democrats had voted to keep the government open.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:10:00]

FOSTER: It's worth noting those taxpayer dollars that have already been have already been congressionally appropriated.

Let's speak to Alayna Treene. She joins us from the White House.

Alayna, I mean, people were thinking maybe, you know, these mass firings were part of a tactic to put pressure on the Democrats. But this talk about

them being permanent suggests something different, perhaps an opportunity here for the White House.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Oh, absolutely. And that's how they see it. Even the president has said that publicly now. He said this

morning on social media, Max, that he couldn't believe Democrats are giving him what he calls a unprecedented opportunity.

And what we're seeing and some of the conversations I've been having with people in the building behind me, has been that, you know, typically during

a shutdown, you do have to furlough employees, which is essentially temporarily laying off employees because there is no way to pay them.

They're not continuing to get wages for working.

But what they're talking about now is quite different. This idea of essentially telling those workers who are furloughed actually don't come

back when the government is reopened. And that is -- that is an unprecedented move that the White House and really the broader Trump

administration is considering.

And a lot of it is coming from Russell Vought. You mentioned that he's meeting with the president today. He is the White House budget chief. He is

the one who is kind of controlling a lot of this.

And I can tell you from my reporting, I know that he has a long list of agencies that he is prepared to be to target, really, during this period,

for some time now. He's someone who has been one of the leaders in calling for major slashes to the federal workforce for wanting to reduce the size

of government, working very closely with the Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE, and Elon Musk when he was still a part of this

administration as well.

And so, the cuts that he is going to be recommending to the president could be very wide in scope, as the press secretary laid out, could be thousands

of workers. It's still not clear exactly which agencies they are targeting. From what we have heard from people at the White House, they argue that it

will be agencies that they argue are not aligned with President Donald Trump's agenda.

But we're still waiting to get specifics on where we could actually see some of these cuts. But there is a question as well of how this will play

politically. I know that in my conversations with people in the White House, they argue that they believe this will play politically well for

them. And a lot of that is because they believe they can blame the Democrats not only for the shutdown, but perhaps for forcing their hand.

The argument that their hand is being forced, though, is of course, up to interpretation. And I'm still trying to get more answers from people in the

West Wing about that, because we should note that this isn't the first time we've seen mass layoffs -- layoffs in the government. We saw that earlier

this year, again through DOGE, with the help of Russell Vought.

And so there's, you know, some mixed messaging here on that, but they are very much planning to use this period when the government is shut down to

carry out this key part of the president's agenda. The question is just who will be affected by it. And really, again, how big is the scope? Is it

really thousands or what are we looking at here?

FOSTER: Yeah. Okay. Alayna, thank you for joining us from the White House.

Now, time is close to running out to find survivors in Monday's school collapse in Indonesia. Investigators believe the boarding schools

foundation may have given way while students were gathering for prayer. Five teenage boys were pulled alive from the wreckage on Wednesday.

Officials on the scene believe up to 59 people, though, still remain trapped in the rubble. Five have been confirmed dead.

Here's CNN's Ivan Watson with the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rescue from the ruins. Indonesian emergency workers have been digging and cutting in a desperate

effort to find dozens of boys trapped since their school suddenly collapsed on Monday.

This mother's prayers answered when rescuers plucked her son from the rubble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I thought there was only a 20 percent chance he'd make it, but I kept saying, in the name of God, my

child is strong. My child is strong. I kept reciting praises for the prophet.

WATSON (voice-over): But for too many other families, an agonizing vigil that's now turned to despair.

Officials bring in heavy machinery and announced they've detected no more signs of life. Parents line up to give DNA samples to help identify bodies

of young victims.

This woman's 17-year-old son, Ahmed (ph), is among those missing.

My hope is fading, she says. I need them to find his body soon so that he can be buried beside his father's grave.

The Al-Khoziny Islamic boarding school was a four-story building in the Indonesian city of Sidoarjo. Students were gathering for afternoon prayers

on Monday as construction workers were reportedly pouring concrete on the roof of the school.

[15:15:08]

That's when the building collapsed.

A top Indonesian government official now calls this a wake-up call. Authorities say they've launched an investigation into the cause of this

deadly disaster.

Ivan Watson, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: All right. Coming up, the U.S. president's budget chief making billions of dollars in cuts. And the targets are raising eyebrows across

Washington. Details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:18:42]

FOSTER: President Donald Trump says he can't believe that Democrats are giving him what he calls the opportunity to make big budget cuts during the

government shutdown, and the man in charge of those cuts is his budget director, Russ Vought.

Mr. Trump said he would meet with Vought today, who's already swinging the ax. On Wednesday. He listed 16 U.S. states that he said would lose billions

of dollars in funding for green energy projects. If you're wondering what those states have in common, here's a map of all the states that Kamala

Harris won in last year's presidential election. All of them except Maine, Rhode Island, Virginia and Washington, D.C. are on Vought's list.

What we don't know is, will the White House deliberately target blue states for budget cuts?

Our chief U.S. domestic correspondent, Phil Mattingly, is here.

Well, the president has, you know, effectively warned that he was going to do that, that the Democrats would suffer, right?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF U.S. DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Look, I have never I've covered 15 years of Washington and budget fights and shutdown battles,

and there have been more than a few. I've never seen such an overt, explicit and unapologetic effort to utilize the authorities within the

executive branch to punish political opponents. In one of these fights, and I think it is easy to not grasp the significance of that, given how much

similar things, how many similar things we've seen over the course of the last nine months.

[15:20:08]

But I think it is a really, really critical window into understanding both the individual responsible for it, the budget director, Russ Vought, but

also the president's willingness to trigger the levers of government in ways that he thinks will help him in negotiations, that he clearly thinks

will give him leverage, but simply are not the way it's usually done. And what the post that Russ Vought the director laid out there.

It's not just the 16 blue states. There were a couple blue states that he left off specifically because Democrats voted with Republicans to keep the

government open. I think it just underscores what has been a wide-ranging, large-scale project undertaken to use and expand the authority of the

executive branch to pretty much do and get whatever President Trump wants at this point.

FOSTER: Yeah. And it's the usual pattern, isn't it, that he's doing something unprecedented. And there's not a system to deal with it

effectively. So how does it, you know, what's there to stop him doing this?

MATTINGLY: You are asking a question that you may think is obvious, but that has consumed the minds of Democratic lawmakers of their top lawyers,

with no good answer for the better part of the entire administration up to this point. I think that's what's so fascinating. And so different about

the reporting that I've done in this space over the course of the last couple of months, which is whether it's because they lack standing, whether

it's because there's no process in place, the ability for Trump to pursue these means is not easy to defeat.

If you don't have Republicans on Capitol Hill, that eliminates the legislative options to restrict or constrain what he's trying to do. The

legal system has time and again ruled either in favor of the Trump administration or undercut district court rulings that try and block or

freeze some of their efforts. The Supreme Court has done it several times, and what it underscores is the degree of preparation by Trump's top policy

advisers coming into this administration was keenly focused on identifying areas where they thought there was ambiguity, enough ambiguity that they

were willing to gamble on winning legal battles with a lot of judges that Trump appointed in the first term.

And that's what they're working with right now. And you've seen it across the board, whether it's immigration, whether it's the number of national

emergencies he's labeled, whether it's the Article I versus Article II battle over congressional authority spending. The power of the purse is

explicitly the domain of Congress. The Trump administration feels otherwise.

FOSTER: And from an outsiders point of view, it does always feel as though the Trump White House is always a step ahead of the Democrats on this, and

the Democrats are always scrambling for a response and didn't really see one.

MATTINGLY: There is, I think, the best way that I've kind of picked it up from one very, very senior Democrat who's been in this space for a very

long time is their biggest restraint right now on the Democratic side, particularly in messaging and on the politics, is a failure of imagination.

There is just no concept that any of this could happen with the velocity that it has happened.

And so, perpetually, over the course of nine months, they have been a week, two, three weeks behind as they just tried to figure out what was going on.

And I think that has been a huge part of the Trump administration would call it success. I think a lot of Democrats would say its severely

problematic based on how the system is supposed to work, but it is a defining feature of this administration and all of its efforts to achieve

its outcomes.

FOSTER: Phil, fascinating chat. Thank you for bringing us that.

Now, the White House also asking some of the country's biggest universities to sign up to a list of demands if they want to get more federal funding.

The universities involved include Ivy League schools like Brown, Dartmouth and UPenn, as well as other public and private schools. Among the demands

are calls for schools to remove factors like sex and ethnicity from their admissions policies.

Our senior White House reporter, Betsy Klein, is in Washington.

It feels like we've been here before, Betsy.

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, Max, this is another example of the Trump administration using the levers of the federal

government to reshape higher education in alignment with President Trump's agenda. And it all goes back to exactly what Phil was just laying out.

This is something, according to a source familiar that has been in the works since December, before the president even took office. But they have

created and released to nine top public and private universities what they are calling a quote, compact for academic excellence in higher education.

This nine-page document here sent to a number of schools and signed by top officials from the Trump administration, including Education Secretary

Linda McMahon and other top officials.

It calls on these universities to implement a number of policies, including removing factors like sex and ethnicity from admissions, consideration,

freezing tuition costs for five years, a 15 percent cap on international students, a strict definition of gender, committing to grading integrity,

and to reform or close any, quote, "institutional units that purposefully punish, belittle and even spark violence against conservative ideas".

[15:25:23]

Now, we are learning that there is going to be an annual anonymous poll of students, faculty and staff to ensure that they are in compliance with

this. The Department of Justice is said to be expected to review that poll. And in return, a White House official tells me that these schools will

receive what they're describing as a competitive advantage and access to additional federal grant funding for things like research.

Now, one of the things that really jumped out to me as I read through this compact was this sentence. It said, quote, institutions of higher education

are free to develop models and values other than those below. If the institution elects to forego federal benefits. Now, a White House official

clarified to me that failure to sign on to this agreement by these schools is really going to mean that these schools will not receive this expanded

federal funding. But it's not clear at this point whether that means that they could be punished with the existing federal funding they receive, if

they do not agree to sign on to it.

But I have heard from a number of schools I reached out to, all nine. We've heard from the University of Texas. They say they are honored to be

included in this initial batch of nine schools, and they will enthusiastically review this proposal. We've also heard from the University

of Virginia, which is creating a working group to review it and make plans as to how they plan to move forward, Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Betsy, thank you.

Still to come, an update on our top story a deadly car ramming and stabbing attack on a synagogue here in the U.K.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:30:18]

FOSTER: Our top story a deadly attack on a synagogue in Manchester. Two members of the Jewish community there killed in the car, ramming and

stabbing. It happened on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar. Police say four people are in hospital.

Authorities say at least one suspect was shot dead by police. Police say the attacker was wearing a vest with what appeared to be an explosive

device. But one that wasn't actually viable.

Manchester police are crediting those inside and outside the synagogue for their quick action to keep worshipers safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF CONSTABLE STEPHEN WATSON, GREATER MANCHESTER POLICE: There were a large number of worshipers attending the synagogue at the time of this

attack, but thanks to the immediate bravery of security staff and the worshipers inside as well as the fast response of the police, the attacker

was prevented from gaining access. All those inside were safely contained until police were able to confirm that it was safe to leave the premises.

Yom Kippur is a day where we see our Jewish community attending their places of worship, places where they and their families should feel

entirely safe from harm. I want to share my gratitude to all of those members of the public who called the police as soon as they saw what was

happening. This allowed the quick response from our officers, who were able to act swiftly and bravely to bring this horrendous attack to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: What we want to know is how can places of worship be protected from terror attacks?

Joining me now, Dr. Jessica White, acting director of terrorism at the united, the Royal United Services Institute.

Thank you so much for joining us.

And we're talking about places of worship because we've seen attacks on churches in America recently. There have been attacks, obviously, on

mosques in the past as well. So, this is across the religious divide. Everyone's feeling under threat.

And particularly, you know, when you consider that actually the synagogues in this country do have security. And yet this still happened, which is why

jews in this country are feeling particularly vulnerable today.

DR. JESSICA WHITE, ACTING DIRECTOR OF TERRORISM AND CONFLICT STUDIES, RUSI: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I think it's a particularly challenging

environment. There's a widespread and I think increasingly mainstreamed sort of nature of this type of hate based discrimination that's often

religiously based, hate based discrimination that will continue, unfortunately, to fuel attacks or attempted attacks, such as we saw today.

As you say, there is a heightened awareness around synagogues and other places of worship already. I think this will be a prompting incident that

they need to reinforce and maintain diligence. But it certainly is connected also to a wider challenge of geopolitical insecurity. And how

geopolitical incidents are fueling some of that hate based discrimination against public today.

FOSTER: The prime minister is talking about increasing the police presence. But that's an unmanageable cost, isn't it, to have armed police

outside all religious services. So how do they cope with this? There's a lot of people obviously saying today that someone this determined is always

going to break through to a certain extent.

WHITE: Yes. I think -- I mean, it's a very challenging thing, right? To cover every possible incidence of a religious gathering. And as you say,

it's perhaps impossible to have that kind of maintained, heightened security. I think some of these locations are aware of their -- of their

own security concerns and will perhaps heighten, you know, a privately, sourced security.

Certainly, Martyn's Law in the U.K. has asked premises, you know, as such as this as places of worship with larger crowds to consider what their

responsibilities are in case of terrorist attack and to think ahead towards to adding protections to make sure that worshipers will be safe. But I

would certainly argue that there's always going to be a limitation, right? Theres always going to be an individual who is going to be motivated to try

and break through those security barriers that have been put in place. And it is a matter of ensuring that your worshipers understand how to respond

and also to addressing this wider social issue of this religiously based, hate based discrimination that can radicalize people and fuel terrorist

attacks, such as we saw today.

FOSTER: Do you think its time for the sort of rehearsals and training that we see on American campuses for example, so people know what to do in that

situation?

[15:35:01]

Because obviously, when you haven't had any sort of training, you often instinctively do the wrong thing, don't you?

WHITE: Yes. Unfortunately, you often do. Although we see instances such as today where I think that the actions taken by those inside the synagogue

were a good response to what was happening. But I think there's a fine balance to be had, right? There is a balance of making sure that attendees

would know what to do in case of an attack. There's a balance of making sure that people visually, you know, feel safe by the barriers that are in

place, the physical barriers that are in place, or the security personnel that might be around.

There's also a concern of over securitizing too, though, right? We want there to be a public feeling of safety, a public feeling of you can go to

your place of worship and be safe. So, there can be too much. There can be too little. Finding that balance has been one of the questions being asked

as the Martyn's Law requirements were put into place, and how to balance that effectiveness versus not over securitizing our public everyday life.

FOSTER: Okay. Dr. Jessica White, really appreciate your analysis today on this grim day for Manchester.

It's the final moments of trade on Wall Street. U.S. stocks pushing to record highs. Investors seem unconcerned by the government shutdown.

This is our business breakout.

Tesla had a record quarter for sales as American buyers tried to beat a deadline for a tax credit. The company sold almost half a million cars in

the last quarter. Its shares are close to a record high.

Warren Buffett has announced his biggest takeover deal in years. Berkshire Hathaway will buy OxyChem, which is a chemicals company. The deal is worth

nearly $10 billion. Buffett is planning to step down as chief executive of Berkshire Hathaway at the end of the year.

And Meta's chatbot will soon be used to sell you things, the company says that your interactions with Meta's artificial intelligence will be used to

target you with personalized ads. The changes will kick in December, on December the 16th. You can look forward to that.

Now, you know, it's, the company behind ChatGPT. Now, according to reports, OpenAI is now worth half a trillion dollars, while the company's still

private. It recently sold shares in a new valuation that would make OpenAI more valuable than companies like Netflix Coca-Cola or MasterCard.

Anna Cooban's here, and we were talking about Elon Musk and Tesla. He's probably done quite well from that. He was also involved in OpenAI, wasn't

he, early on?

ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS & ECONOMICS REPORTER: Yes. Elon Musk is a co- founder of OpenAI about 10 years ago. But he famously fell out with Sam Altman, who's now the CEO of OpenAI. And what we've seen today is, of

course, OpenAI, according to reports, is now worth half a trillion dollars. That, according to reports, has put it, you know, makes it overtake SpaceX,

which is one of Elon Musk's companies, as being the world's most valuable - -

FOSTER: To be celebrating today with his spoon.

COOBAN: So now, it's no longer the world's most valuable private company. But I think this this story really gives you a sense of the amount of money

that's really sloshing around right now for A.I. companies, around how feverish investors are the world's most valuable publicly listed company is

Nvidia, a U.S. maker of chips for A.I. systems.

So, this is just another indication of that frenzy.

FOSTER: At some point, though, they're going to actually have to live up to their promise, aren't they? Because is this still just investors piling

into something that everyone else is piling into, frankly?

COOBAN: Well, OpenAI is still technically a nonprofit, and there's been some controversy around that with Elon Musk himself filing lawsuits and

accusing OpenAI of betraying that that founding mission.

But yeah, there have been alarm bells, rung by analysts saying, you know, is this a bubble? Is the bubble going to burst at some point?

FOSTER: Is it?

COOBAN: Well, I mean, it will have to wait and see. But certainly, it's a technology that's really revolutionizing certain industries.

FOSTER: Yes.

COOBAN: It certainly has meat on the bones of it. But will all the companies that are currently making products turn a profit? That is a big

question mark over that.

FOSTER: So, OpenAI, I mean, what's the -- what's his plan with this? Because he has talked, quite frankly, hasn't he, Sam Altman, about the

dangers of A.I., but yet his company is growing and is really at the forefront of the whole industry.

COOBAN: Yeah. Well, if you remember when ChatGPT came out, it really took everybody by surprise. OpenAI is he is, as you said, really sounded the

alarm on many of the problems with it. We know that Elon Musk himself has talked about the existential dangers of A.I. Many business leaders have

come out to say that they will, you know, it will be the case that people's jobs are taken by this technology.

And we've already seen it happen across many industries. The breakneck speed of its development is certainly something that's both exciting and

worrying, but mainly exciting for investors right now.

FOSTER: Yeah, apparently. Thank you so much, Anna.

Still to come, Denmark conducts its biggest ever military drills in Greenland. What it's all about and who it could be sending a message to.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:14]

FOSTER: Vladimir Putin says Russia will respond swiftly if it's provoked by Europe. The Russian president was speaking at a summit in Sochi. He

claimed that all NATO countries were fighting with Russia over Ukraine.

Mr. Putin said that if Europe provoked Moscow, then countermeasures would quickly follow.

In Greenland, Denmark staged its largest ever drills last month with the publicly stated goal of deterring Russia and China. But some wonder if

those war games are really a message for U.S. President Donald Trump and his interest in acquiring the massive island.

Matthew Chance reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a vast landscape, remote and virtually untamed. But Greenland has emerged

as a key arctic battleground as Russia and China vie with NATO allies for Arctic influence.

CNN was invited here by the Danish military to observe their biggest ever combat exercise, dubbed Arctic Light.

Much of Greenland, ruled by Denmark for three centuries, is a moonscape of jagged ice, a frozen desert rich in resources the size of Alaska and

California combined.

Danish military officials say this unforgiving terrain is virtually unconquerable, but they're still training hard to repulse any would be

attackers.

SEREN ANDERSEN, COMMANDER DANISH JOINT ARCTIC COMMAND: We are here to protect Greenland, and in order to protect Greenland, we have to train. And

because if you're not up here and conduct training, you're not able to defend Greenland. So that's what we're doing.

[15:45:00]

CHANCE: What are the security threats to Greenland? Who are you protecting it from?

ANDERSEN: Yeah. Against Russia. That is the main threat for Greenland. There's not a threat now, but there's a future threat. So, we are looking

into a threat when the -- when the war in Ukraine is over.

CHANCE (voice-over): But such a remote danger begs the question why Denmark is ramping up military spending right now to the tune of billions

of dollars and pouring its limited resources into the Arctic.

Greenland has become a highly contested territory, seen as strategically important, and Denmark has deployed its air force, its navy and its land

assets here to show that it is in charge very much and is increasing its presence.

Now, the purpose of this exercise is to deter countries like Russia and China, we're told by Danish military officials, which are increasingly

active in the Arctic region.

But the real message, the real target audience for all of this is in Washington and President Trump.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need Greenland for national security and even international security. And we're working with

everybody involved to try and get it.

CHANCE (voice-over): That ambition appears to have dropped off the White House agenda, at least for now.

TRUMP: One way or the other, we're going to get it.

CHANCE (voice-over): But in the icy fjords of Greenland, with naval exercises underway to it still seen as the most pressing diplomatic

challenge.

Although Denmark's top general, who CNN met on board a Danish frigate, was careful not to admit it in public.

Is the real reason for these maneuvers, the remarks by President Trump about the sovereignty of Greenland? Is it intended to send a message to

Washington?

MICHAEL HYLDGAARD, DANISH CHIEF OF DEFENSE: This is a military exercise. It is to demonstrate our ability to protect Greenland. And that's the

military side of it.

CHANCE: It's not meant as a message to Washington that Greenland can protect this, that Denmark can protect Greenland.

HYLDGAARD: I'm not a politician, so I have a military task.

CHANCE (voice-over): But as we flew out of Greenland, it was clear that military task carries a key Danish political goal, not just to deter Moscow

and Beijing from ever invading this vast Arctic expanse, but also to convince Washington there's no need to take Greenland as its own.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Greenland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, two Delta passenger planes collide at a New York airport, leaving one person in hospital. What officials say happened there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:50:33]

FOSTER: Federal authorities in the U.S. are investigating after two delta passenger jets collided on a taxiway at New York's LaGuardia airport. The

frightening incident took place on Wednesday night as one plane was getting ready for takeoff and its wing slammed into the cockpit windows of another

plane that had just arrived.

Airport officials say one flight attendant was injured in that incident. The airline says it's working with authorities to review what happened.

Joining us now, CNN transportation analyst Mary Schiavo.

Just explain this one, Mary, because it's extraordinary to so many people.

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Oh, that's right. So, one plane was getting ready to taxi and leave for Virginia, the other plane was

coming in from North Carolina. Ground control and air traffic control, they work out of what's called the same tower cab.

But they told the plane that was going to head to Virginia to hold short. Meaning there's -- there are markings on the taxiways, and you stop and

wait for the other plane to go. For some reason, and it still remains to be seen if both planes were still traveling, perhaps the Virginia plane was

trying to stop, but you know they can't stop on a dime, depending on how fast they're going.

So, they'll be looking at, did the pilot hear the instruction from the tower? Did the pilot confirm it? Were both planes on their taxi lines? Were

they lined up where they were supposed to be? And also, then, they will look at the equipment.

There is equipment, newer equipment. Only 35 U.S. airports have this, and it's called airport surface detection equipment, X, ASDE-X. And that helps

the controllers tell where the planes are. In some airports, it actually gives alerts that planes are getting too close, including on the taxiways.

And so they'll be looking if that was in use, if it was working, if both planes had it on or responding, if the radars were working. So there's a

lot to look at.

But, of course, with all the recordings and the planes and in the tower and both and all four pilots alive, they'll have lots of information.

FOSTER: Yeah. And I -- if I could ask you as well about your contacts in air traffic, I mean, you mentioned them there. They're currently working

for free, right. What's the atmosphere around the -- around the shutdown?

SCHIAVO: Well, you know, when I was inspector general, we went through the second longest shutdown in history. And so what happens is, a good chunk of

government is designated essential employees and essential employees continue to work.

And when the government comes back into full force, they are refunded -- they are fully funded and they are paid just like the workers who aren't

essential and go off on the duty. But yes, they are to be paid when they come, when they come back on. You know, what happens immediately is there

isn't a change.

This didn't really have anything to do with that, because one of the planes was given the command to stop and hold short, but over time it takes a

toll. And when I was inspector general, there were lots of reports that sick leave was being abused, that the sick outs were so people could look

for other jobs or take a second job, or they just had fatigue.

And of course, management has to step in and help as well. And many airports already are on overtime, mandatory overtime, but it's hit or miss.

Some airports, some control facilities don't have any shortages at all. Others have persistent and nagging shortages.

So, it's going to be really incumbent on the FAA to stay on top of this and put their best managerial skills forward.

FOSTER: Is there much anger or frustration? I don't know what they get paid. Obviously, they're going to reach a point where they've got bills

they can't pay.

SCHIAVO: Right. So up until the first paycheck is missed, people won't really notice it. The government paychecks are all direct deposit. They go

in every -- you know, depending on the agency every couple of weeks or so. But at the first missed paycheck, people start getting antsy.

Now, air traffic controllers are very highly paid. Government employees. You know, some earn $300,000, or more dollars a year and upwards. If

they're working overtime, there's some of the high watermarks are over $400,000 a year, but everybody gets nervous when you don't have a paycheck

coming in.

So, if the shutdown is short and, you know, working in the government, I was in the government for, I don't know, 15 years, maybe you get used to

it. And, you know, this is coming, and you save for a rainy day. But some people can't for many reasons.

So, yes, as the first paycheck is missed and maybe a second one or third one, people do start getting nervous sick leave reports go up, stress leave

reports go up. And -- but for right now, things are moving along because people are used to short shutdowns.

FOSTER: Okay, Mary, thank you. I'm glad they've got some practice at least of this. Thanks for joining us from New York.

SCHIAVO: Thanks for having me.

FOSTER: Finally tonight, Britain's Prince William sharing some intimate details of his life in a new TV show. During the interview with actor

Eugene Levy, he called 2024 the hardest year of his life dealing with family cancer treatments. The royal also talked about missing his

grandparents during a tour of Windsor Castle. We'll have more on that tomorrow.

But I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW today.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" up next.

END

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