Return to Transcripts main page
What We Know with Max Foster
Trump Ramps Up Pressure Campaign To Prevent Epstein Vote; Nearly 1,000 Flights Canceled As Shutdown Ends; Venezuelans Voice Fear & Skepticism Amid Tensions With U.S.; Comey, James Challenging Prosecutor Who Brought Indictments; Zelenskyy Visits Troops On The Front Lines In Zaporizhzhia; Medics Say Israel Plans To Deport Sick Palestinians Back To Gaza; OpenAI and Microsoft Work With Lawmakers On A.I. Safety; BBC Apologizes Over Trump Speech Edit. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 13, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:26]
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: U.S. lawmakers push for the release of more Epstein files, but the White House is fighting back.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
While pressure on the White House to release those files grows, President Donald Trump is applying his own pressure on Republican allies to stop that
release. The U.S. House is expected to vote next week on a measure that would compel the Justice Department to release all Epstein-related
evidence.
On Wednesday. Congresswoman Lauren Boebert was the only lawmaker called to a highly unusual meeting of top administration officials at the White
House. Boebert denies being pressured by the president to give up her push to release the Epstein files.
Senior White House correspondent Kristen Holmes is with us.
Just take us through where we are with this and why the White House is pushing so hard to prevent this release.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, of course, that's the big question. Why are they working so hard to stop this
from getting out there? Particularly, not only did Donald Trump, the president, campaign on this idea of releasing the files, so did so many top
officials in his cabinet, in his administration, and this whole entire story line around the Epstein controversy. And the scandal has really
consumed this White House and plagued president Trump's second term.
The White House has seemed unable to really wrap their head around it in terms of a response, but even more so get ahead of it, which has really
been perplexing to a number of Trump allies and supporters who don't understand what the actual response is here.
Now, as you were mentioning, Congresswoman Lauren Boebert was called to the White House. She had a private meeting. She was one of a few Republicans
who the White House and White House officials, Trump administration officials, believed might flip in terms of signing a discharge petition.
The discharge petition had a number of Republicans on it, and they were trying to actually force that vote.
Boebert did not change her mind in any way. The discharge petition has gone through, and now we have heard from Speaker Johnson that that vote and the
process around it is being expedited and could happen as early as next week, which is a surprise to many given how long and how dragged -- how
much the administration, as well as the speaker's office, has really dragged out this process, trying to prevent a vote on this release from
actually happening.
We have asked the White House a series of questions about these emails, and their answer is always the same that this is a Democratic hoax. Now, of
course, President Trump, as well as so many of his top officials, know that this entire Epstein scandal is not a hoax. But it does seem as though this
is the narrative that they are using around this, saying that Democrats are using it as a distraction.
But I will tell you one thing. I talked to Republicans all day long. It is not just Democrats who are fixated on this, who want information revealed,
who want to actually have some answers when it comes to the Epstein files, it is also Republicans who feel strongly about this.
So, when that vote does come up, it will be interesting to see which Republicans and even Trump supporters and allies vote to release this
information, or at least try to push this ahead to the Senate so that the information can be released. And there are still questions within the
administration and the sources that I talked to, that a number of Republicans who, again, are supportive of President Trump will still be in
favor of pushing this through and trying to get this information out there.
FOSTER: Kristen, fascinating. Thank you. We'll see where it goes.
Now that the U.S. government shutdown is finally over, many are wondering when SNAP enrollees will receive their full benefits. Nearly 42 million
Americans are enrolled in the SNAP program, which provides critical food and nutrition services depending on which state someone lives in, the
timing remains unclear for when they can expect to receive full benefits.
One major headache lingering after the shutdown is the travel chaos. Hundreds of flights have been canceled nationwide today, and more than
1,000 others are delayed. Despite this, some travelers say that things are heading in a right direction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LOLA CHAFFIN, TRAVELER: I'm really happy about that for the people that are traveling for the holidays. You know, at least that takes it off their
plate.
METREIA WHITE, TRAVELER: I am happy that it will get back to some kind of normalcy, or just a little bit better before the holidays. I know it's
important for people to see their families, especially right now, because things are a little bit crazy. You know, you might need that comfort of
your families.
JUSTIN BATTLE, TRAVELER: Family time is so important and during the holidays and travel, so getting everybody back to work with flights and
airplanes is very important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: So what we want to know is how long until U.S. travel goes back to normal.
Joining me now is CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean from Ronald Reagan airport near Washington. He's followed the whole process.
You spoke to many of the air traffic controllers as well, Pete.
[15:05:02]
Are we going to see them flood back to work?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're not totally out of the woods yet, although the data is showing that air traffic controllers
are showing up to work in a big way. We have seen the number of so-called staffing triggers. The reports from the Federal Aviation Administration of
air traffic control facilities with short staffing go way, way down. The high-water mark was about 63, depending on how you count just this past
Saturday. That was a huge number and caused chaos at airports across the country.
Today, the number for a brief time was zero. Now it is up to two. There's a shortage of air traffic controllers here in the tower at Reagan National
Airport. Also, a shortage at the approach control facility responsible for low altitude flights near Newark Liberty International Airport.
The big thing that airlines are underscoring right now to their workers and to passengers is things are getting somewhat back to normal, but there will
be a bit of a hangover, a bit of a lag here, because the Trump administration is still mandating that the airlines slash flights from
their schedules. The good news is, the number was supposed to go up to a 10 percent cut on Friday. Tomorrow, that number has been frozen at 6 percent
until further notice. And the Federal Aviation Administration says its looking at some of the data, like the data showing that air traffic
control, staffing shortages have been going down.
I want you to listen now to Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian, who says that things are returning to normal, albeit slowly, and he has a lot of
positivity when it comes to the Thanksgiving travel rush, only a few days away from officially starting. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED BASTIAN, CEO, DELTA AIRLINES: I think we'll be back a lot faster than people think. The last couple of days actually were pretty good.
GAYLE KING, CBS HOST: Were they?
BASTIAN: The staffing. As soon as the Senate deal on Monday got approved, staffing levels almost overnight improved dramatically and we will be back
to normal this weekend. Yesterday, we were -- we were over 90 percent on time systemwide every flight, all day long.
KING: And no concerns about Thanksgiving?
BASTIAN: No concerns.
KING: Okay.
BASTIAN: Thanksgiving is going to be a great holiday to travel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MUNTEAN: The cancellations across the board are way down. We saw 2,900 cancellations nationwide on Sunday due to air traffic control, staffing
shortages and a lot of bad weather and some major hubs. Today, that number hovering around 1,000 cancellations in the U.S. Those are predominantly
made up of the flight cuts mandated by the Trump administration.
The new order from the Trump administration says airlines have to cancel flights based on that order to comply with it, about four days out. So even
if that ended today, even if the Trump administration says airlines, you don't need to cut flights anymore, things are back to normal and safe.
There will still be a bit of a lag into next week.
So, Max, not fully out of the woods just yet.
FOSTER: Okay, Pete, thank you so much.
British journalist Sami Hamdi is back in the U.K. after spending 18 days in immigration detention in the U.S. The London-based commentator says he was
detained for speaking out against Israel's war in Gaza. He was taken into custody at San Francisco International Airport one day after he spoke at a
gala for the Council on American Islamic Relations. U.S. immigration authorities say Hamdi was detained for overstaying his U.S. visa. However,
Hamdi and his team argue he was in the U.S. on a valid visa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMI HAMDI, BRITISH COMMENTATOR: I want to say that this wasn't just an attack on me, it was an attack on the freedoms of ordinary Americans and
citizens worldwide. It was an attack on their freedom to speak the truth in the face of hatred. And I think that my message to the Americans, as
somebody who grew to love America, who loves its people, who saw the wonderful kindness and generosity and hospitality in every single state
except New Hampshire, I didn't get the chance to go to New Hampshire. It's the only state I didn't go.
I saw that the Americans were amenable to truth. And I think that the reason that my visa was targeted was not because of anything that I was
saying, but because Americans were listening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, Venezuelans are voicing fear and skepticism as tensions between President Nicolas Maduro and the U.S. intensify. America's largest
and most advanced aircraft carrier is now operating near Latin America. The arrival of the Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group marks the largest U.S.
military presence in the region since the invasion of Panama back in 1989. The U.S. claims this show of strength is to fight alleged drug trafficking,
but President Maduro believes the Trump administration is attempting to topple him.
Stefano Pozzebon is at a pro-Maduro rally in Caracas, Venezuela, to get a sense right of how much support Maduro has got right now.
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, yes, you can see that Nicolas Maduro has become unpopular, Max. There is no other way to put it. Like
this is not the largest rally I've been to a -- to in Venezuela. I've been here for more than nine years in covering this story and, well, we can see
the drop in popularity for Nicolas Maduro.
[15:10:01]
However, we've spoken with several of people here at this March who told us that they would still be prepared to come out in force. They would still be
prepared, of course, to fight tooth and nails, if the U.S. were indeed to attack Venezuela.
I think today is a sign that the government is willing to try to change the narrative, is willing to put out their supporters as much as possible. They
don't have the same popular support as before the pandemic, for example, when a big chunk of the Venezuelan population still supported Nicolas
Maduro. I think that those numbers have dwindled in recent years, and the fact that there are, I would say, thousands of people, but not tens of
thousands for sure right now in the streets of Caracas.
But it still shows you that Nicolas maduro is capable of mobilizing people, of mobilizing supporters from one side of Venezuela to the other. We spoke,
for example, Max, with people who are from the state of Monagas, from the state of Tachira. Those are border states that maybe had to drive and ride
for 10 hours, 15 hours in order to be here to show their support.
And we know that this is very personal for him, because if I point you that look at that flag over there that he's waving in the Caracas sky, well,
that is the Miraflores presidential palace, Max, that is where Nicolas Maduro is staying most of his days. So, you can feel that this march that
was organized by his supporters has a particular significance just because we are literally in his own backyard.
Not the numbers, perhaps that Nicolas Maduro was expecting or hoping for. However, surely, the capacity for a leader to still show that he's in
control of the country -- Max.
FOSTER: Stefano in Caracas, thank you so much for giving us an update from there.
Coming up, Palestinian Authorities call it a heinous crime. Israeli settlers set fire to a mosque and deface it amid a surge in violence
against Palestinians in the West Bank.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:15:08]
FOSTER: It's been a dramatic day at a federal courthouse where a judge is deciding whether to disqualify the prosecutor, who indicted two of Donald
Trump's perceived political enemies. Lawyers for former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James say prosecutor Lindsey
Halligan was improperly appointed, and as a result, the charges against them should be dropped.
Halligan was handpicked by President Trump to be an interim U.S. attorney after a predecessor was forced out, reportedly for resisting calls to bring
charges against Comey and James. Halligan secured those indictments soon after taking the job.
CNN senior U.S. justice correspondent Evan Perez has been tracking developments inside the courtroom.
Just bring it together for us, Evan, because there's a lot of information there and lots of developments.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely. And look, a lot of this is very technical legal jargon, essentially. But
Lindsey Halligan is the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia. She was appointed just before the statute of limitations were set to expire
in the Comey investigation, they had just mere days before that the government would not have been able to bring those charges at the end of
five years.
And so, the question here as to whether she was legally serving as a U.S. attorney is really it matters a lot because if she wasn't, she's the only
one who signed this, this indictment. Then the case goes away, potentially. And that's what the judge was weighing. Today, the defense is arguing that
Lindsey Halligan wasn't serving legally as a U.S. attorney. She wasn't legally in that job because the number of days under federal law under
which the U.S. attorney is allowed to hold that job without getting Senate confirmation had expired.
And so, the judge was asking some very pointed questions today, and one of them was specific about the Trump case. If you remember, Donald Trump when
he was facing those charges in Florida on the holding of those classified documents, that case went away because the judge said that Jack Smith, the
special counsel, was not lawfully appointed to his job. That case was dismissed.
And so, the question that arose today from the judge was -- to the -- to the prosecutor was, do you think that that case was legally decided and the
prosecution was clearly taken aback by the question, and you could hear gasps in the courtroom from the very, very mention of the Donald Trump
case. And so, the judge is simply trying to get to the bottom of that.
Now, the prosecution says, no, these are totally different matters. It doesn't -- it's not the same comparison. But we know the judge is taking
this very, very seriously. And we know that she's also saying that she is going to make a decision before the Thanksgiving holiday. So just in a
matter of a couple of weeks, were going to find out whether this indictment against James Comey and Letitia James, whether those cases actually
survive.
Remember, those cases are due to go on trial in January. And so, we may never even get to trial if it turns out Lindsey Halligan is not lawfully
appointed as a -- as a prosecutor in this case -- Max.
FOSTER: Evan, thank you so much.
To Israel now, charred walls, broken windows, burned copies of the Koran. Israeli settlers in the west bank have attacked a mosque, the latest target
in a wave of violence. They set it on fire and scrawled graffiti insulting the Muslim Prophet Muhammad. The IDF says it dispatched forces to the
scene, but no suspects were identified.
Israel has received the remains, said to be one of the last four deceased hostages in Gaza. Hamas turned over the body to the Red Cross, which
facilitated the transfer as part of the U.S. brokered ceasefire. Israel will conduct a forensic exam to confirm identification.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is thanking his troops on the front lines. Earlier, he visited the Zaporizhzhia region, where Russian troops
forced Ukrainian troops to retreat. In particular, the city of Pokrovsk, a key strategic target where Russians are now advancing. Zelenskyy assured
his troops he was strengthening their defenses with more troops, weapons and equipment.
Meanwhile, in Kyiv, the corruption scandal has cost two cabinet members their job. Zelenskyy's energy and justice ministers both submitted their
resignations. Neither have been charged with any wrongdoing. Its alleged funds meant for the country's war torn power grid was stolen through fake
military contracts.
Ben Wedeman has more from Rome.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: After around 70 raids and more than 1,000 hours of wiretaps, Ukraine's National Anti-Corruption
Bureau announced it has uncovered a massive corruption scheme. The investigation has implicated Ukraine's energy and justice ministers, as
well as a former deputy prime minister, in a scheme involving at least $100 million in kickbacks from contractors hoping to work with the state run
nuclear power company known as Energoatom.
Most damning, the alleged mastermind of the scheme is none other than Timur Mindich, a close associate of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Mindich, a
dual Ukrainian-Israeli national, is co-owner of Kvartal 95, the media production company Zelenskyy founded. Ukrainian authorities report Mindich
left the country just days before the Anti-Corruption Bureau announced the results of its investigation.
Zelensky has called for the resignation of the justice and energy ministers, who insist, of course, that they're innocent. Since independence
in the early 1990s, Ukraine has been plagued by corruption. Although this isn't the biggest scandal of its kind, it couldn't come at a worse time in
terms of Kyiv's dependance on the goodwill and trust of donor nations, particularly when Russia has been targeting the energy sector as winter
approaches.
Thursday, President Zelenskyy spoke with German Chancellor Friedrich Merz. A statement issued by the chancellor's office said Zelenskyy assured the
chancellor of, quote, complete transparency, long term support for the independent anti-corruption authorities and further swift measures to
regain the trust of the Ukrainian people. European partners and international donors. The readout from Zelenskyy's office, however, made no
mention of the corruption scandal.
Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Still to come, newly released Epstein documents include email correspondence between Jeffrey Epstein and this man. What do we know about
Michael Wolff? We'll examine that just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:25:35]
FOSTER: The U.S. House speaker is promising a vote next week on whether to back the release of the remaining Jeffrey Epstein files. That follows a new
round of emails made public on Wednesday, written by Epstein, that mentioned Donald Trump on multiple occasions. And that's putting added
pressure on the White House from the Democrats and Republicans alike to release the files.
Support for that release not only includes Democrats, but longtime supporters of the president, such as Republicans Nancy Mace and Lauren
Boebert. Boebert was the only lawmaker called to an extraordinary meeting in the Situation Room of the White House on Wednesday. She says the
president did not pressure her to pull her support for the Epstein release petition.
The latest Epstein emails are reigniting questions over Andrew Mountbatten- Windsor's denials of allegations made by his accuser, Virginia Giuffre. In 2011, the former prince reportedly told Epstein and convicted sex
trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell, "I can't take any more of this," when a British newspaper said it planned to publish a story about the scandal.
Andrew's repeatedly denied any wrongdoing and CNN has reached out to him several times for comment.
Here's what Epstein survivors had to say about the latest emails released by House Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANIELLE BENSKY, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: I think the emails really speak for themselves. You know, you read it and you have a very visceral reaction to
them. And I think survivors have been very clear and consistent about our messaging that anyone who performs harm or anybody that that has done any
wrongdoing or has harmed people should face accountability.
LIZ STEIN, EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: We need the government to release everything that's in these files -- of course, with the appropriate redactions to
protect the privacy of the survivors. But we really need this information to be out there, so these crimes can be investigated. I think it's really
upsetting to us that this is so politicized when it's not a political issue. This was a crime and it's a crime of sex trafficking. And we really
just want to see justice for the crime that happened to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: More now on Trump's relationship with Epstein from CNN's Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy has been talked about for years.
Are people still talking about this guy, this creep.
RANDI KAYE, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That was President Donald Trump in July this year, offering a very different opinion
of Jeffrey Epstein than he once shared publicly.
In 2002 long before he became president, Trump told "New York Magazine" he'd known Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years and called him a terrific guy.
"He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side," Trump
told the magazine.
Over the years, the two have been spotted many times in public together. This NBC video shows Trump and Epstein socializing in 1992 at a party at
Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate.
The video released in 2019, shows Trump appearing to say to Epstein, look at her back there, she's hot, while Epstein smiles and nods. Former
swimsuit model Stacey Williams, who dated Epstein in 1993, told CNN in an interview, Trump was Epstein's wing man.
STACEY WILLIAMS, FORMER SWIMSUIT MODEL: They were best friends. They were very close.
KAYE (voice-over): The two men flew together as well. These flight logs show Trump traveled on Epstein's jet four times in 1993, twice in 1994 and
once in 1995 and in 1997. The logs were made public during Ghislaine Maxwell's 2021 trial, where she was convicted of sex trafficking, among
other things.
Epstein also attended Trump's wedding to Marla Maples at New York's Plaza Hotel in 1993. In 1997, Trump added this personal note to Epstein inside a
copy of his book, "The Art of the Comeback". It reads to Jeff, "You are the greatest," according to "The New York Times".
That same year, the two men were photographed together at Mar-a-Lago. This exclusive CNN video shows Epstein and Trump chatting in 1999 before a
Victoria Secret Fashion Show.
KAYE: Despite all of that, during a court deposition here in Palm Beach in 2010, Epstein refused to answer many questions about his association with
Trump. And Trump has continued to try and distance himself from Epstein as recently as July. This was the story he told about kicking Epstein at a
Mar-a-Lago.
TRUMP: He took people that work for me, and I told him, don't do it anymore. And he did it. I said, stay the hell out of here.
KAYE (voice-over): More recently, Trump had to answer about a letter bearing his name found in a birthday book created by Ghislaine Maxwell for
Epstein's 50th birthday.
[15:30:05]
The letter, according to "The Wall Street Journal", contained the outline of a naked woman and a message, "Happy birthday and may every day be
another wonderful secret." Trump denied authoring the letter and sued the journal for defamation.
TRUMP: It's not my signature, and it's not the way I speak, and anybody that's covered me for a long time know that's not my language.
KAYE (voice-over): Randi Kaye CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Included in some of the emails released by House Democrats Wednesday were messages between Epstein and author Michael Wolff. He's an
author and a journalist who wrote the book "Fire and Fury", about President Trump's first term in office. Wolff has said in the past that he's
interviewed Epstein.
So, what more do we know about him and how does he fit into the Trump- Epstein orbit?
Let's bring in senior chief, CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter.
Brian, I mean, it was fascinating to see the conversations because Wolff seems so central. He almost seemed to sway some of the conversations as
well.
Were you surprised by what you learned about him here?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: You know, he comes across in one of the emails as a P.R. adviser to Jeffrey Epstein, giving him a heads up,
and then suggesting possible language. You know, this is something that is far from the norm for a journalist, but Michael Wolff has always prided
himself on being outside the norms for a journalist. I think of him more as a writer, as an author, as someone who wants to expose elite circles but
often enjoys being inside those circles as well.
And, you know, I've had my tiffs with him over the years. I remember a 2017 interview with Wolff on CNN where he lambasted the media, came after me
personally, and the very next day he received an interview, a phone call from President Trump. Trump was brand new in the White House at the time.
Wolff and Trump gabbed for about half an hour, Wolff was invited to the White House, and the result was the book "Fire and Fury", a bestselling
book, an international bestseller where Wolff started to tear down the Trump presidency, started to expose some of the misconduct of the Trump
presidency.
But how did he get in in the first place? Flattery, right? How did he get in on the in the first place? He got in by sucking up to Donald Trump, and
then he was able to write a book that broke from journalistic norms that told a lot of true stories, but also was challenged for a number of
different factual mistakes.
So that's Wolff in a nutshell. He writes about sleazy and shameless people, but he's often criticized for being sleazy and shameless as well. And he
doesn't mind that criticism.
FOSTER: Okay, we lost Brian there, but you got the sense of it. No great surprise, but we got a sense of how Wolff operates. When you look at those
emails are quite extraordinary.
Now, doctors at hospitals in East Jerusalem say Israel is planning to deport sick Palestinians to Gaza, even those currently undergoing
treatment.
Jeremy Diamond explains why, for some patients, returning to Gaza's devastated landscape could be a matter of life or death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, doctors at two East Jerusalem hospitals say that Israeli authorities have informed them that
they intend to deport all Gazan patients being treated in those hospitals back to Gaza as early as next week.
This news has been devastating for some of those patients and their families being treated in these hospitals, in particular because of the
rarity of some of their conditions and the lack of sufficient medical care that exists in a devastated Gaza Strip.
Altogether, 89 patients and their companions are set to be deported back to Gaza as early as next week, according to those doctors. They include a
teenager by the name of Yamen Al-Najjar who has a rare blood disorder. He was medically evacuated from the Gaza Strip just two days before the
October 7th attacks, and has been living with his mother inside an East Jerusalem hospital.
But his mother is now concerned that it will be a death sentence for him to go back to the Gaza Strip, where not only the strip is devastated in terms
of any remaining buildings and residential areas, but also in terms of the health care system in Gaza that has been decimated over the course of two
years of war.
In fact, even in East Jerusalem, he hasn't been able to get the proper treatment necessary, and his mother has been working for the last 14 months
to first get approval from the World Health Organization to get him to another country, which she received, but she has still been fighting to try
and find a third-party country that will host her son in a hospital abroad.
And that has been one of the major backlog issues, not only for those Gazan patients in those East Jerusalem hospitals, but also for Palestinians
inside the Gaza Strip who have been seeking medical evacuation have gotten approval for it, even in some cases, from Israeli authorities, but simply
have not been able to get approval from a third-party country that would be willing to host them.
[15:35:11]
Now there is a question about whether this deportation will go forward next week, most of these patients and their families are willing to go back to
the Gaza Strip, but for those who will not, efforts are underway to try and fight that deportation order.
We've seen in the past, the Israeli Supreme Court had stepped in back in March of 2024 to stop the deportation of some Palestinian patients from
Gaza being treated in East Jerusalem. But for now, the Israeli authorities declining to comment to CNN, it's something that we will be tracking very
closely, of course, over the course of the next week,
Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: It's the final moments of trading on Wall Street. Stocks are falling today. The Dow Jones down more than one or 1.5 percent, as you can
see, with all the main indices on Wall Street in the red today. This is due to a lack of economic data really coming from the government because of the
shutdown -- shutdown, and that spooked investors.
This is our business breakout.
Apple is launching a new pocket for iPhone, Airpods and other everyday items in collaboration with designer Issey Miyake. But it's raising
eyebrows with a hefty price tag of $230 for what many see as just a sock.
Delta Airlines CEO Ed Bastian is expecting business to bounce back with the end of the U.S. shutdown, after the company lost money due to flight
cancellations. During the shutdown, airlines were required by authorities to cancel 6 percent of their domestic flights due to staffing shortages of
air traffic control workers who went without pay during that time.
The Trump administration is scrambling to tackle affordability, and its starting with coffee by reversing its own policy of taxing imports on the
beverage. Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says substantial announcements will be made in the coming days that will bring prices down, in his words,
very quickly.
Now, a pair of U.S. state lawmakers are joining forces with two of the biggest names in the tech industry, OpenAI and Microsoft, to improve A.I.
safety. Artificial intelligence is increasingly becoming part of our day- to-day lives, but some are concerned that there aren't any guardrails to ensure that this tech is being developed and used safely.
CNN's Clare Duffy has more on how this new partnership is trying to tackle that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: Yeah, the idea here is to bring together the developers within tech companies who are building A.I. technology with
state attorneys general, who, of course, are the top law enforcement officers within states to try to develop and recommend basic safeguards
that A.I. companies should be implementing into their technology, and then to continue to track emerging risks as A.I. technology develops. And to do
all of this in a bipartisan fashion.
This task force is being formed by North Carolina Attorney General Jeff Jackson and Utah -- who is a Democrat -- and Utah Attorney General Derrick
Brown, who is a Republican. And this, of course, comes as concerns around A.I. safety risks have only continued to escalate. As we've seen these
reports of users saying that A.I. caused their delusions or self-harm, and also comes as we've seen little action from Congress to create broad
regulations around artificial intelligence.
And North Carolina Attorney General Jeff Jackson told me that he doesn't have a lot of faith that Congress will move quickly to quickly to regulate
A.I., especially after Republicans pushed for a provision in Trump's Big, Beautiful Bill earlier this year that would have banned states from
regulating A.I. for ten years. That was ultimately removed.
But here's what Jeff Jackson told me about why this is so important. He said they did nothing with respect to social media, nothing with respect to
internet privacy, not even for kids. And they came very close to moving in the wrong direction on A.I. by handcuffing states from doing anything real.
Congress has left a vacuum, and I think it makes sense for A.G.s to try to fill it.
Now, they do also expect that more tech companies, in addition to OpenAI and Microsoft, will join this task force, as well as other state attorneys
general. And while the recommendations, the guardrails that they come up with here will technically be voluntary, Jeff Jackson told me that another
benefit of this group is going to be bringing together state attorneys general to track A.I. risks and potentially take joint legal action if they
recognize that tech companies are harming users.
Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: A new documentary says its studying Adolf Hitler's DNA with some pretty eyebrow raising results, I have to say. I'll speak to the geneticist
who worked on the program, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:42:39]
FOSTER: The documentary says it has studied Adolf Hitler's DNA and claims to have uncovered new insights into the health of the notorious dictator.
The film, which airs in the U.K. this weekend, ran tests on blood from the sofa where Hitler shot himself. It uses that to garner insights on whether
he suffered from depression or bipolar disorder, as well as claims that he had Jewish heritage.
The program is not without controversy. "The Guardian" newspaper called it dubious, while the new scientist called it a gimmick. It also speculates
that Hitler suffered from a genetic disorder that can lead to retracted testicles or a micro penis. What we don't know is what can be learned, if
anything, from studying Hitler's DNA.
Joining me now is Turi King. She is a geneticist who worked with the documentary-makers.
I really appreciate your time today. I mean, these are ongoing stories around Hitler, aren't they? And, you know, people do want them resolved to
some extent. So, just talk us through the science that you used in this documentary.
TURI KING, ANCIENT AND FORENSIC DNA SPECIALIST: So I think that the first thing we had to do was actually identify if the blood actually came from
Hitler. That was my very first question when I was conscious, like, how do we know that it's actually his? And so that's quite a process involving
genetic and non-genetic information.
The swatch that we obtained the DNA from was actually taken by a Roswell Rosengren, who was Eisenhower's public information officer and one of the
few other people who was who was allowed into the bunker after the war. And you can imagine it's men. It's the end of the -- of World War II. And he's
allowed into the bunker and they start to take souvenirs.
And one of the souvenirs that he takes is a cutting from the swatch of the sofa, where Hitler killed himself, and he brings it back. It stays in the
family for decades before being sold to a museum, who then offered it for testing.
So, my first question is, okay, we have the provenance. The fabric looks right. Then we do genetic testing. So, we used a piece of DNA known as the
Y chromosome, which is passed down through the male line. And we had a male line relative of Hitler. Well, we didn't -- we actually had the data from a
previous study that had been done.
So, we're getting a genetic match. And it's an extremely rare Y chromosome type. So that's again significant.
[15:45:00]
And then we have to ask, so what's the likelihood of somebody who is a close male line relative of Hitler being able to get into the bunker and
also bleed on the same sofa? Well, the chances are very, very remote. So, we could be happy that this was the DNA of Hitler.
And then the next thing we do is, is we want to sort of have a look at his genome, and we do that in two separate ways. One is just by running it
through the standard sort of NHS pipeline for any kind of genetic variants of interest. And then the second was sending it to experts. So there's
been, you know, lots of medical sort of diagnoses from a distance by medical biographers of Hitler.
So, we were interested in going, well, you know, is there any kind of truth to, to any of this or is there any kind of genetic kind of data that, that
we can add to this story? So, we did find something extremely interesting. So this was a -- the group at the Pasteur Institute who work on the
genetics of sexual development.
And they found very quickly that he has a well-known deletion in a gene known as PROK2. And whilst we know that there's a sort of variation in how
that manifests itself in an individual, it's known to affect testosterone levels. They can fluctuate, it can affect the development of sexual organs.
And in five to 10 percent of cases, I know this is something that's very much been picked up in the press, only in five to 10 percent of cases can
result in a micro penis.
Now, the reason why that is so interesting is because we already know from historical documents that Hitler had right sided cryptorchidism. So, an
undescended testicle. And there are these sort of rumors about how during World War I, he's teased for having very small genitalia. So I'm at pains
to say that, you know, from the genetic evidence we cannot say anything about Hitler's genitalia, but it fits nicely with what we already know
about the history, about how there's something going on there.
FOSTER: Can I just ask you? I mean, it's fascinating to hear the science, but, you know, just to sort of face the criticism. I mean, what's the value
in sharing this?
KING: Well, so I have to admit, I did agonize over this when I was first contacted. And the way I was thinking about it is -- well, look, this is
going to get done at some point. The swatch is available for testing, so let's make sure it's done really rigorously.
And the second thing is, is that there's been thousands of archeological and historical individuals who've had their DNA sequenced, including
Beethoven. And so why should Hitler be any different? You know, it's not like he's on some sort of pedestal. And who would decide over who is
appropriate to do DNA testing on or not?
And so that's what kind of brought me around to actually doing it. And if we're going to do it, we need to do it in a really kind of rigorous
fashion.
FOSTER: Yeah.
KING: We had no idea what we would find at all. Not a clue. I mean, it was one of these things where you think, well, maybe he's going to have an
incredibly boring genome and he's slightly genetically predisposed towards heart disease or something.
FOSTER: Yeah.
KING: But as it was, we find these very interesting genetic predispositions.
FOSTER: What about the people who have the same disposition and, you know they're now, you know, they learn that there's not the same one. I mean,
that's tricky.
KING: Exactly. That is very tricky. And we are at pains to say in the documentary and in every interview I ever do is that this is not to
stigmatize people with these conditions, people with these conditions is extremely rare that they go on to commit violence, let alone, I mean,
heavens, genocide. And that they're more likely to be on the receiving end of violence.
So, this is not in any way to stigmatize people with these conditions. And I think the other thing that's very important to say is that nothing in
Hitler's DNA excuses his behavior. There is DNA is only a very small part of the picture in terms of who somebody becomes.
It's genetics is you've got, you know, environment is incredibly important. And that's everything from adverse childhood experiences all the way
through to, you know, what is society going on at the time. So, if there's one thing that I want people to take away from this particular thing is
that that DNA is not deterministic, and it is a small part of who somebody actually is.
FOSTER: Absolutely. I think its really important to remind people of that.
And, Turi King, really appreciate you explaining it all to us today. Thank you for joining us.
KING: No problem.
FOSTER: We'll be back in just a moment.
KING: You're welcome.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:52:04]
FOSTER: Breaking news coming in to CNN. The BBC has apologized to the U.S. President Donald Trump over the editing of a documentary that Mr. Trump's
attorneys called false and defamatory.
Mr. Trump had threatened to sue the BBC for $1 billion. He wanted a response. By Friday.
He's got one now, chief media analyst Brian Stelter is with us, and from what I can see, Brian, they're not offering compensation. They have
apologized, but they're not offering compensation. Is that right?
STELTER: Right. They're using words. They're expressing sorrow. They're apologizing again, this time personally to the U.S. president. But
resisting any attempt at a shakedown.
You know, there was speculation this week that President Trump actually wanted a settlement payment from the BBC in order to avert a lawsuit. And
that legal threat letter on Monday did signal a $1 billion damages claim. Of course, Trump would actually have to file a lawsuit to proceed and to
pursue that amount of money. But there was speculation the BBC might try to settle with him to make him go away.
We've seen Disney and Paramount in the U.S. do that after being sued by Trump. My interpretation of this, though, Max, is that the BBC is signaling
it will not immediately fold. Instead, it is willing to fight. If the president does sue, the BBC is willing to fight.
The statement says, quote, "While the BBC sincerely regrets the manner in which the video clip was edited, we strongly disagree. There is a basis for
a defamation claim."
And here's the most important part of that -- in order to prove defamation, you have to prove malice. You have to prove intent. And the BBC is
insisting there was no intent to mislead the public in this case.
FOSTER: Yes. So, most lawyers are saying there's no case here. But is that the point with Donald Trump? Often he carries out these cases.
STELTER: Right.
FOSTER: You work with him really -- you know, you follow him, great detail. Was that really what he was aiming at, and will he be satisfied
with this response?
STELTER: Oftentimes, these legal threats and even his lawsuits are actually P.R. stunts. And you might put this one in the bucket of a pr
stunt. But we have heard aides close to the president insisting that he actually feels wronged. And he actually wants some sort of accountability
in this case.
Trump is very good at recognizing when institutions or individuals are vulnerable. And right now the BBC is vulnerable. But it's possible that by
this time next week, he will just move on. I'm sure that's what BBC officials are hoping for.
I remember when Disney brought Jimmy Bimmel back on the air after that episode back in September, Trump made some more threats, but then he moved
on to his next target. That might happen in this case, or he might decide to double down and actually file a lawsuit against the BBC.
But right now, the ball is back in Trump's proverbial court because the BBC is saying sorry, but not going any further than that.
FOSTER: The other thing they might have given this or the BBC News is saying the corporation also said it would not show the program again. He
wanted a retraction, didn't he? Is that enough for him, do you think?
STELTER: Yes, that's a good point. That's a good distinction here.
So right now, you know, it's not easy to find this documentary. It's more than a year old. It's not streaming anywhere. So, the BBC saying that it's
not going to provide it in the future is not really a big deal, but it does signal a concession if Trump wants to view it that way.
[15:55:02]
More importantly, though, to your point, Trump did demand a retraction of the documentary, and the BBC is not doing that. And frankly, why would the
broadcaster do that?
Most of the documentary was not called into question. There was only one small area that was noticed. There was a problem. And yes, it was a serious
mistake, but the BBC says it was only a mistake.
So, it'll be interesting to see if this letter actually leaks. This is from the BBC chair, a BBC chair, Samir Shah. It's a personal letter to the White
House with, I would suspect, profuse apologies. You know, we'll see if those words go far enough to make Trump move on from this particular spat.
FOSTER: Okay, Brian, thank you so much. A lot to digest. And as you say, we haven't seen the letter. We're going on what the BBC is reporting right
now, but it does seem as though something significant happened in that story.
I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW. Do stay with CNN. We'll have more after this break.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS
