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What We Know with Max Foster
Two U.S. National Guardsmen Shot Near White House; At Least 36 Dead In Hong Kong High-Rise Apartment Fire; U.K. Government Hands Down Tax- Raising Budget; West Virginia Governor: Two National Guardsmen Shot & Killed In D.C. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 26, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:17]
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: We've got this breaking news out of Washington, D.C. several people shot quite near the White House. Several people shot,
including at least one member of the U.S. National Guard. It happened in downtown Washington, D.C.
This is the camera we've got on the scene. We don't know exactly where it happened, but you can see the area closed off. We've reached out to the
National Guard. Obviously, we're following this very closely. We'll bring you more information. We've got reporters on their way.
Our other breaking news story tonight, horror in Hong Kong with dozens dead, hundreds more missing, a deadly high rise apartment complex. Fire is
still burning after more than 12 hours.
Authorities say some people are still trapped in the buildings. They've been told to shelter in place using any means necessary as they await
rescue. That's proving difficult due to extremely high temperatures in the towers and falling debris. At least 36 people are dead, but that could
rise, with dozens hospitalized and hundreds said to be uncontactable.
This complex is home to some 4,000 people. Many of them have now been moved to temporary shelters. Thankfully, the cause is under investigation.
Officials say housing authorities will look at whether protective layers that were used to shield the building during a recent refurbishment
complied with fire safety standards.
Hong Kong's leader calls the fire a major disaster. He talked about the people who lost their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN LEE, HONG KONG CHIEF EXECUTIVE (through translator): As of now, the fire has caused 36 people to lose their lives. I am saddened by their
deaths, and I express deep condolences to the families of the deceased and those who are injured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Ivan Watson is with us from Hong Kong.
Our thoughts are also with the people currently trapped somewhere towards the top of these buildings, Ivan?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I couldn't quite hear you, Max, but you know, the long and the short of it is were some 13 hours
after this fire was first reported to the fire department. And while some of the intensity of the flames has reduced, as you can see, these towers
are still very much burning. Still, seven of the eight towers in this public housing development went up in flames.
We had heard from the fire department from a top official who announced that they had gotten emergency calls from residents trapped inside who were
informed to stay in their homes, that it was too dangerous for the firemen to get up to those, particularly the higher floors. We have not heard of
any rescues. Instead, as we heard from the chief executive, John Lee, the death toll grew to 36 dead. And I think, more ominously, nearly 280 people
who are still unaccounted for.
For a bit of context there were nearly 2000 apartments in these towers here. These are -- these are public housing constructed in 1983. And
provided homes for more than 4,000 people. The fire first began at one edge of this compound, just before 3:00 in the afternoon. But by the time the
fire department arrived on the scene, the flames had already grown within a tower and had also caught on fire to the bamboo scaffolding and the
protective, construction netting that sheathed all of the towers.
And then, you know, part of what I think will clearly need to be investigated and is raising a lot of questions is how the fire then spread
to the neighboring towers with such speed. That's going to be a big question moving forward. But as we can see, the emergency still isn't over.
These flames are still burning. There are still firemen dozens scores of emergency vehicles here. And police on the ground.
And I can still hear drones overhead. Sometimes they have spotlights, that, that shine down as well. This will be a tremendous shock for Hong Kong, a
city that, while densely populated, has a solid record of public safety -- Max.
FOSTER: We're hearing, actually, Ivan, that Hong Kong police have arrested three men on suspicion of manslaughter in relation to the apartment
complex. So, it's obviously moving very quickly indeed.
[15:05:00]
And we should point out, shouldn't we, that Hong Kong has a very good safety record on fire, despite the fact it uses bamboo for scaffolding,
which many people are questioning today
WATSON: Sure. I mean, the bamboo scaffolding is almost a symbol of this city. It's a -- it's a traditional way of building modern high rises and
skyscrapers.
When I had renovation work done on my own apartment, they put up bamboo scaffolding outside of it. And it's on the 22nd floor. It's -- I've
interviewed the construction workers that work with it. They believe that the -- that the bamboo is sustainable. It is lighter than steel.
And we don't know whether or not that contributed to the speed of the spread of these flames here today.
There was another fire in central -- the central business district of Hong Kong just last month. It also involved construction and bamboo scaffolding.
So I don't know if this is a trend or not or if this is perhaps going to need to be investigated, but without a doubt, this fire over my shoulder
here is the deadliest that Hong Kong has seen in decades.
And to provide some additional context in the past couple of months, a number of typhoons have ripped through this city. In those cases, we barely
heard about injuries. Some damage, property damage.
So, to have a disaster of this scale arguably a manmade disaster, that is something that people are going to be asking questions about and watching
to see an investigation. And were not even in the really the mourning period yet, as they still seem to be working to figure out how many people
may have been caught in this terrible blaze.
FOSTER: Speaking to two very senior fire people, earlier, experts in fire safety, Ivan, I just wanted to mention it because they're talking about the
longer this goes on, the more it will degrade the concrete and potentially the steel. And there could be the risk of a building collapse as well. So,
this is a potentially very dangerous scene. If they don't get it under control soon.
WATSON: Yeah. And it has been dangerous for the emergency workers as well. At least one experienced firefighter with nine years in the fire department
was killed in the first hours of this blaze, another injured, and the officials have been talking about the debris that's been raining down.
Look, if Dan pans up, you'll just see this shower of sparks coming out. And some of that does seem to very much be connected to bits of bamboo
scaffolding that we can still see up there. So, the emergency workers have said that this falling debris adds to the risk of what they're trying to do
here.
We've seen firemen getting kitted up putting on oxygen tanks. I don't know if they've tried to go into this building amid this. I don't know what that
sound was, but, you know, we're periodically hearing sounds like that. So, an immense amount of heat has been generated by this fire, as well as a
tremendous amount of smoke and ash, kind of like falling in the surrounding neighborhood.
I do have to say, the residents who have now been made homeless, thousands of them over the course of this night, some of them are staying in
temporary shelters, and there has been just a surge of volunteerism. People coming forward to try to help, to bring donations and supplies to people.
But of course, when somebody's home, entire home goes up in smoke, it's -- it's an enormous challenge. And I don't really think I've seen a disaster
of this scale in the city, in the more than ten years that I've lived here, Max.
FOSTER: I think a lot of people are saying they haven't seen anything like this at all, because the fires in high rises normally stick to one
building. They don't leap to others, certainly not several others. So there's a huge investigation to take place here.
How have the Chinese government responded to this? Have you had much comment from them?
WATSON: I've seen reports of, fire trucks coming from the mainland Chinese city of Shenzhen, and we know that the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, has
spoken out with condolences about the losses in this case. So, you know, the of course, Hong Kong is part of China. So, there will be assistance in
that case.
But yeah, you're absolutely right. The fires are not supposed to jump to neighboring buildings. And as a longtime resident here of the city, this is
a -- this is your nightmare, is your -- most of the people of Hong Kong, this is a densely populated city.
[15:10:07]
There isn't a lot of available ground to build on. So the city builds up and it is a city of skyscrapers and high rises. And many of us live in
these types of buildings. So this is your nightmare. You're building with your sleep -- your family inside going up in flames. It's absolutely
frightening. And it's going to worry a lot of people who are also be shocked at the scale of the loss of life as a result of this disaster.
FOSTER: Okay, Ivan, thank you so much for that. We'll have more on this story as well. Ivan, thank you.
A bit later in the program. But right now, we want to go to that breaking news out of D.C. several people shot near the White House, including two
members of the U.S. National Guard. The shooting happened in downtown Washington, D.C., close to the White House.
The D.C. police department says one suspect in custody. The scene has been secured as well, according to them.
CNN has reached out to the National Guard for comment. They're obviously responding to the situation right now.
Law enforcement analyst Steve Moore joins me on the phone.
And it's early days, Steve, but what have you heard?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (via telephone): You know, just not much more than you have. You know, anytime you have a shooting near the
White House, house obviously, it's a point of concern. And then when you're discussing national guardsmen, it could indicate that there's a possible
political motive to it because of the recent moves by the administration to put military, in Washington.
FOSTER: Just talk us through this area. We understand that parts of the, you know, areas outside the White House have been cleared. That doesn't
suggest anything to you, does it? In relation to the White House, house, it could just be an area near the White House?
MOORE: Yes. I mean, as you know, there's lots of parks right around the White House. The treasury building, all the executive office building, all
that entire area, and the fact that they're clearing this to me would mean that they expect that there, that this may be something a lot more than
just a crime gone bad or something like this. They, you know, it's it -- they're handling it as if they are assuming it's an intentional targeting,
targeted shooting.
However, that doesn't mean that's what it is. But you have to handle that. You know, you can't go back and reinvestigate, so you have to start with a
potential possible motive for this first.
FOSTER: Yeah. We seem to have multiple agencies involved, a huge presence already on the ground. I guess that's normal, isn't it? Its quite layered
in Washington anyway.
MOORE: Yeah, and part of that is because, you know, because its a federal enclave, just about every federal agency has, has jurisdiction over it. The
FBI has federal jurisdiction over the entire -- over the entire city. I mean, they could technically, though, they never would, but they could
technically stop people for drunk driving and stuff like that. They have normal police powers in Washington, D.C., as do almost all other federal
agencies.
So, you're going to get everybody, I would assume parks -- national park police are going to be there and having a major, thing to do with it
because most of the land around there is, set aside for monuments, parks, things like that. So they'll be involved. FBI will be involved. And of
course, metro police will be involved.
FOSTER: The White House saying President Trump has been briefed. As I understand it, I think he's in Florida, isn't he, at the moment. So not an
immediate concern for his safety right now, but he has been briefed.
That shows how significant the White House thinks it is.
MOORE: Yeah, I think -- I think right now, again, in the absence of greater of more information, the thing that indicates to me most that this
could be something other than a than a crime that went bad or an attempted arrest that went bad is that -- is the response by the federal agencies.
This is not something where somebody got shot and you know, you had the national -- and I hate to sound so blase about that, but where somebody got
shot and you have the normal police presence, and they put up crime tape, and they investigate it and go.
This appears to be at least being handled as though it's an intentional, potentially an intentional crime. And if, if that, it would be a potential
terrorism case. So and again, I'm not saying that's what's going on, but when you get to a situation like this or a scene like this, the first thing
you have to do is determine the parameters of what you're looking at. If it's a very obviously a gang related shooting or something, you don't have
to start working terrorism protocols.
[15:15:07]
But if you arrive there and you have, soldiers who've been shot, and its right near the White House, you cannot ignore the fact that, potential for
political violence, for this to be a political violence situation.
FOSTER: Yeah. Just flesh that out, because what you're saying, if I am reading it properly, is it's not a couple of police officers who were shot
here, which may have suggested, as you say, an arrest or some sort of scuffle or something like that. Youve got national guard members who were
shot who wouldn't normally be involved, would they, with arresting people for example?
MOORE: No, not necessarily. You know, you have some national guard units that are that are military police units who are very well schooled in law
enforcement. In fact, many of them when they're not at the guard are actual policemen in blue uniforms, not green. So, they tend to be very
sophisticated. If it's a -- if it's a military police unit, but, with, you know, you'd have to find out whether there was a federal arrest, being
taking place nearby and possibly you had guardsmen, providing security for the area.
There's just so many things right now that were that, are in the air, and we just don't have the answers to. It's -- but the law enforcement seems to
know a little bit more about it than we do.
FOSTER: Steve, thank you for coming on with so little information, but we'll be back with you as soon as you hear more. Thank you.
We've also got other breaking news coming out of Hong Kong. Police have arrested three men on suspicion of manslaughter in relation to the
apartment complex fire, which we now know has killed at least 36 people. Nearly 300 are missing.
Joining us now, Michael Mo. He's a former Hong Kong district councilor.
Our thoughts very much with everyone in Hong Kong right now, Michael. What's the atmosphere like?
MICHAEL MO, FORMER HONG KONG DISTRICT COUNCILOR: So from the online groups and social media, we see that communities are pretty much helping out each
other. They establish websites showing -- letting the residents, showing that they are doing okay or someone said missing or even their pets are
missing. So, we're trying out to help out each other, but at the same time, we are -- we are having this response because, the communities simply don't
think the government led groups or networks can help them adequately or pretty much being responsive.
FOSTER: Well, they've got a huge operation on their hands, haven't they? Multiple tower blocks burning. We've been speaking to people who think
there might be a risk of collapse as well. And there are people trapped within the building. So, what -- what's their issue with the authorities
response here
MO: So, to put it in scale, is seven Grenfell Tower fires happening in the same time? So, people are angry about the mesh that wraps the bamboo
scaffolding have not been vetted properly, and they have been complaining about the improper procedure and management of the building maintenance.
For some occasions, they've seen that the construction workers have been using Styrofoam to cover the windows, which is extremely flammable.
But nothing has been done by the building department or other authorities so far before this tragedy happens. So, they are pretty angry. But at the
same time, I think, they're just trying to get themselves, sorted, make sure their loved ones are fine, or if not, they have to prepare for the
worst.
FOSTER: Well, yeah, because we've got so many missing, haven't we? Literally, hundreds who are uncontactable and we know that they are in
touch with many who are still alive in these tower blocks. Just describe the typical sort of people that live in this area. A tower block like that.
The only thing I've been told is that about a third of the residents are elderly, over 65, at least.
MO: My uncle lives a few blocks away from there. He's doing fine for now, so as my cousin. So that community is being built in the early `80s and for
that time, it was still a young, vibrant community. But for now, of course, it's aging as well.
People are pretty much still, like, pretty much afraid of and have to prepare for the worst because, like, the firefighters on the ground are
telling people that they can't go beyond the fifth floor because of the high temperature.
[15:20:03]
And at the same time, they can only, like, rescue people on the lower floors. Some firefighters are even told that they have seen bodies
fortunately. So, it's kind of a -- yeah, a tragic situation, I would say.
FOSTER: Is there concern that the buildings could collapse if they don't put the fire out soon?
MO: We have the experience of the Grenfell Tower in London and because of the construction methods, they might not be a chance of, like, having a
huge collapse. But at the same time, people are worried about, like, everything will be burned up and they will become inhabitable for a few
years simply because of the improper maintenance.
FOSTER: Okay. Michael Mo, thoughts with everyone who, you know, who's been affected today and yesterday. And we'll keep across this story and keep
across those pictures as well. Thank you.
Coming up, more on Hong Kongs deadly fire. We'll speak to an expert about the bamboo scaffolding enveloping the apartment complex and how it may have
contributed to this disaster.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Hong Kong police say three men are under arrest suspected of manslaughter in connection to the deadly high rise fire there. We're
waiting on a news conference for more details. Authorities say 36 people are confirmed dead.
The pictures you're seeing there are from Washington. We're keeping across that for you on the bottom right.
Dozens more hospital -- is hospitalized in Hong Kong. Almost 300 people uncontactable, several buildings in the complex continue burning after more
than 12 hours.
The cause under investigation. There are concerns if refurbishment practices may have contributed. Bamboo scaffolding used to encase buildings
in Hong Kong have been cited as a possible cause of fires in the past.
[15:25:10]
So what we want to know is why are skyscrapers in Hong Kong using bamboo scaffolding?
Joining me, Steve Mackenzie, a fire and emergency planning consultant.
Thank you for joining us. I mean, it's not unusual, is it, in Hong Kong? I mean, it is unusual for the world. Most cities don't do this, but, you
know, what's the history of this material in construction?
STEPHEN MACKENZIE, INDEPENDENT FIRE AND EMERGENCY PLANNING CONSULTANT: The use of bamboo is a highly resilient and structurally stable material. It's
a sustainable resource, and it's cheaply and widely available. And it grows like wildfire if encountered bamboo. So it's widely used across Asia as
external scaffolding and internal scaffolding.
However, we don't do that. We don't use that in the U.K. We generally use tubular steel or aluminum scaffolds, and were trying to move away from
timber decks into aluminum decks so that we can actually reduce the fuel load.
However, in Hong Kong, what we've seen today is eight tower blocks in close proximity heavily encased in bamboo scaffolding. And I would suggest
plastic type netting, which will offer very little fire resistance to a sustained or determined ignition source. And once it gets going, it's quite
literally like a pyre that will have a wind effects, chimney effects, actually adhering the flames to the building and causing the fire spread
from either internal to external or external to internal and then the burning brands, even in a mild wind, can carry a four miles or kilometers.
And that's what's caused it to spread from one building to the next, to the next to the next.
So, when following the reports from 2:00 a.m. when the news broke right through the day with CNN, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to speak,
we've got more questions than answers just now.
But what we do know is 36 killed, 279 unaccounted for, scores injured, one firefighters lost the life. We've got over 4,000 residents across. These
are these eight blocks and seven of which are significantly involved in the fire. And we've also had 700 firefighters and the entire sophistication of
the world-renowned Hong Kong emergency and civil contingency response rolled out today is that your last speaker said, we have now just seen not
Grenfell Tower burning, but seven at the same time, that tax and swamp any emergency service and the internal temperatures within the building.
We don't know if there's any fire suppression. We don't know if it's working, we don't know the fire safety arrangements. We don't know the
quality of the construction under Chinese or Hong Kong standards. So, it leaves so many questions. And the fire service has had to resort to telling
people to defend in place as best they can, because firefighters can't get to them.
FOSTER: I know, so I just want to ask you about that because people are trapped in the building. I assume that they go higher up to get away from
the flames, but as I understand it, it's also going to be very hot up there. But the firefighters, almost powerless, aren't they? Until they get
the go ahead to go in because you've got all of these, all this debris falling from the scaffolding and you've got these massively high
temperatures inside. So how are they going to get to those people?
MACKENZIE: Well, I think -- I think we need to look at what happened at Grenfell. The police force actually used shields to try and create safe
corridors for the 2017 Grenfell fire, to allow firefighters to safely enter into the building. In fact, Danny Cotton, the then London fire brigade fire
chief, was nearly cleaved in two with a piece of scaffolding, a bit of cladding coming off the building and just mentioning that by inches.
Therefore, the approach to the building, the access to the building. And then you've got to think about, unless you're firefighting or protected
evacuation lists in those buildings, the firefighters are tromping up those stairs for 31 stories. They're going to be fatigued and they're going to
deplete their breathing apparatus and oxygen supplies very, very quickly. And therefore, they need to create floor by floor kind of staging areas.
And then tackle the fire.
And we have been looking as an international community, especially under the tall buildings network. Active firefighting responses to these type of
strategies, but you scale it up to seven-fold. We've got a major problem. And then 35 percent or 36 percent of the occupants in this building are
elderly, and a high proportion of them might need assisted evacuation.
[15:30:05]
So what we've had to do is say, stay put, defend in place and pray that the fire resistant box around them withstands the fire until it burns out, and
fire service can do search and rescue and personnel recovery operations. It's a horrific fire. I don't want to dash any family members' hopes, but
we now know we've got an exponentially impactful incident, and I'm going to stop there because there will be family members listening.
FOSTER: Yeah, absolutely, Stephen. Appreciate it. I mean, the pictures speak for themselves the longer they go on for
MACKENZIE: Never seen anything like it outside the war zone. Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
FOSTER: Breaking news out of Washington, D.C. several people have been shot, including two members of the U.S. national guard. The shooting
happened in downtown Washington, close to the White House, where we find Brian Todd -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Max, let me set the scene for you. We're about a block and a block and a half away from the White House on
18th Street Northwest. These are Secret Service police officers here trying to get as much traffic out of the way as possible, trying to clear the
street as much as possible. Also directing some pedestrians on foot to try to avoid this immediate area.
You can see over here behind me this is looking east, kind of toward the White House. I can just for perspective, I can tell you that the White
House is this way. And then to the right about a block, and that is the area where the shooting occurred.
[15:35:00]
Here's what we know now, according to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, two national guardsmen were shot. According to two law enforcement
sources who spoke to CNN, the two guardsmen engaged in gunfire with the suspected shooter prior to being shot. The sources say the suspect was
detained and transported away on a stretcher. Donald Trump, President Donald Trump has just posted on Truth Social that the two guardsmen are,
quote, critically wounded. We are told by D.C. police that one suspect is in custody. They say the scene is secure. Again, to repeat what we're
hearing from sources now, two law enforcement sources telling CNN that the two national guardsmen engaged in gunfire with the suspected shooter just
prior to being shot. The sources say that the shooter was detained and then transported away on a stretcher.
President Trump has just posted on Truth Social that the two guardsmen were critically wounded. We do not have an update on the condition of the
suspected shooter, but we are told that the shooter is in custody now.
Again, I'll step away from the camera as our photojournalist, Joe Merkel (ph), will show you the scene here as they try to secure this area near the
White House. The shooting occurred this afternoon. And what one witness told our photojournalist, Joe Merkel, was that she heard gunshots, and then
she turned around and saw two national guardsmen getting CPR. That is according to one witness who spoke to a member of our team here, not far
from the scene.
Now, you know, for some added perspective the presence of the National Guard here in Washington has been somewhat controversial ever since
President Trump ordered his law enforcement surge here in early August. About mid-August, the guardsmen started to deploy in this city. They come
from states like West Virginia, South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana. A lot of them are very young people, I can -- I can tell you that I've
interacted with many of them since President Trump's law enforcement surge began here in August.
And we have also witnessed kind of some of the controversy surrounding them on occasion when I've been out here covering the law enforcement surge. You
know, you do see, on occasion, some people coming up to law enforcement, to national guardsmen and jeering them or yelling at them. Now, most people
who come up to them are friendly and want to take pictures with them, but we have seen on occasion people kind of giving them a little bit of
trouble.
So that kind of sets the more broad perspective and the controversial nature of the National Guard deployment here in Washington. Max, again ill
just step away. Well, there's a bus behind me, so you're not going to see very much.
To recap what we know now, according to two law enforcement sources, the two national guardsmen engaged in gunfire with the suspected shooter just
prior to being shot. That the sources say that the suspect was detained and then taken away on a stretcher -- Max.
FOSTER: Okay, Brian. Appreciate it. Let you get back to your reporting there.
I want to read that Truth Social post from Donald Trump that Brian was referring to a few moments ago. The animal that shot the two national
guardsmen, with both being critically wounded. And now in two separate hospitals, is also severely wounded, but regardless, will pay a very steep
price. God bless our great National Guard and all of our military and law enforcement.
Kristen Holmes joins us from West Palm Beach, Florida, where the president has been briefed on this shooting. At least he's out of the city, right?
But you know, they're going to want to know what the motive was here, because that -- that's going to define the response.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, it is particularly for the White House, because, as Brian said, there has been an
ongoing controversy and this idea of having National Guard in cities to prevent crime has actually become somewhat political. So that's part of the
reason the White House is watching this so closely, to see what the motive might have been.
I will note that it is quite extraordinary that what you're seeing here is President Trump essentially inserting himself into the investigation, as we
knew he was being briefed. He's been on the phone with these law enforcement sources, but he is giving the public more information than we
were even hearing from law enforcement on the ground, especially saying that these two men, National Guardsmen, were critically wounded, that they
were at two separate hospitals. Also noting for the first time that the shooter had been severely injured as well. So, he is really providing this
update for the world as he gets briefed on what exactly happened in Washington, D.C.
And of course, there's going to be questions with the proximity to the White House. The person who perpetrated this, were they trying to get
closer to the White House at this time? Obviously, that would be a security threat. We do know originally that it was the Secret Service who was on the
scene, as well as park police, meaning that he this person was close enough where the shooting was close enough to the White House to warrant a Secret
Service response, as well as park police. The area around the White House is maintained by those two entities.
So, we are tracking this very closely. And in west palm beach, in Palm Beach, it is no different. President Trump did spend the day on the golf
course. We saw him just now arriving back to his Mar-a-Lago home. That's where we saw this Truth Social post.
[15:40:01]
And I would venture to guess that were likely to hear from Vice President J.D. Vance any moment now as well. He was already scheduled to give
remarks. He is doing a Thanksgiving trip meeting with troops in Kentucky. And he was going to take the stage. So, we'll be listening closely for that
to see if Vance makes comments on this, particularly given now that the president himself has weighed in. It seems more likely that Vance is going
to weigh in as well.
FOSTER: Yeah. As you say, the sensitivity here, National Guard speaks to so much of the politics right now. I mean, we're speaking to someone
earlier suggesting that this could have been an arrest that went wrong, but its less likely to involve the national guard, isn't it? Even though
they've been trained in some law enforcement, that would more likely involve a police officer, for example.
So, lots of people are speculating about, you know, why the National Guard were involved and whether they might have been targeted. So, this is what
we need to be really careful about, right? Until we get the information.
HOLMES: Yeah. And look, we don't know, even just letting you know from talking to sources all over Washington, I'm talking about White House law
enforcement, various law enforcement agencies, both local and federal. This is still very rapidly evolving. It was not made clear how many national
guardsmen were shot originally.
I was talking to one law enforcement agent who was on the scene saying that they were still trying to sort out who had been shot, who was the national
guardsmen. If the third person was a shooter that had been injured. And so, there are still a lot of questions around this, even from the people that
are on the ground. And that takes out the motive as well, which is a whole separate issue.
So there's just the logistics around how this happened, why this happened, what exactly happened, and then going to the more why, what was the motive
here? Was this political?
And that is also what the White House is tracking very closely to see again, as Brian said, you know, this has become kind of a flashpoint, not
just here in Washington. Well, there in Washington, I'm usually in Washington. I'm in Florida right now, but not just there in Washington, but
around the country, in these various cities where President Trump has deployed the National Guard.
It has become an environment in which, sure, you do see people complimenting them, saying thank you for your service, but you also see
people jeering at them and insulting them, saying they don't need to be there. And I can say that firsthand from seeing that in Washington, D.C.
And a reminder that these men and women who serve in Washington, D.C., who were brought here as part of this crime crackdown, its not as though, you
know, they're just randomly doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They're members of the national guard. And the way that works is,
like any military structure, they follow orders. They were ordered to go to Washington, D.C., and they have been there for several months as part of a
crime crackdown.
So, this idea of it being political, really, in the larger scheme of things, seems wild because, again, these are part of the military. They
were ordered to do this, and now they're doing it. But so much of what we've seen in the United States in the last couple of years has been
politicized, as is the National Guard has somehow become more of a political symbol than a military one.
And so, again, a lot of questions, as you noted, were they targets? Was this some kind of incident that went wrong? How did this unfold? And was
there a political aspect of this? Was there a presidential White House aspect of this, all of that we still don't know.
As these details are trickling in very slowly. But I can tell you this, every federal agency is all over this. Every local agency is all over this.
They want to get to the bottom of this, and they're going to be an enormous amount of pressure from President Trump and the White House to get answers
on this.
FOSTER: Kristen, thank you so much for that. Back with you when you get some more.
And to speak what Kristen, what she's saying there, even Reagan airport had to be -- had to cancel all incoming flights briefly to allow air ambulances
to move in and out. And that was in relation to this operation.
So, the scale of the response here has been enormous, which does suggest a level of investigation well above a very local incident which may be
related to an arrest gone wrong or something like that. Just look at those scenes. Multiple agencies in the capital, very near the White House.
But as Kristen was saying president, away from there in Florida.
Now, we're going to move on because it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street. And stocks are up. The Dow Jones extending recent gains now
rising for a fourth straight day.
Our business breakout for you.
First time jobless claims in the U.S. have dropped to a seven-month low. That suggests a labor market low on firings. However, the data also shows
how difficult it is for people out of work to actually find a job with the number of people continuing on jobless claims nearing four-year highs.
The International Monetary Fund has agreed to a new funding program for Ukraine that could be worth more than $8 billion. The IMF says the war with
Russia continues to take a hefty toll on the Ukrainian economy, and that it remains committed to supporting the country.
[15:45:10]
An embarrassing moment for the U.K. government today. Just before handing down its budget, the entire contents were mistakenly leaked online. The
budget itself raises taxes, which Treasury Chief Rachel Reeves says is necessary to boost economic growth, reduce child poverty and ease the cost-
of-living pressures. Another key issue getting on top of the country's national debt, which now sits at more than 94 percent of GDP.
Anna's with us with a look at that, because, I mean, in terms of Europe, the U.K. isn't on its own with this debt problem.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS & ECONOMICS REPORTER: No, this is -- this is a shared problem. We also see in the United States as well, a lot of tussles
in government around the size of the debt pile. But just to give you a few stats, you know, in the U.K. you've just mentioned that stat there, but
we've got in Greece, debt is currently 151 percent GDP. That's the ratio, Italy, 138 percent, France 116 percent. France's former Prime Minister
Bayrou. He said a few months ago that France risked being crushed by debt.
So, this is a huge-shared problem. And the reason, it's a problem is that these debt piles, the interest payments on them, mean that resources are
being diverted from other places. So, we're going to need a lot of money to fend off the next pandemic. When that happens and to support aging
populations. And also fund defense systems, support Ukraine. So, this isn't an issue which just can be kicked down the road.
FOSTER: Okay, Anna, thank you so much.
We continue to follow the devastating high-rise fire in Hong Kong. Meanwhile, still to come tonight we'll get one residents account of the
deadly fire.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: -- capital have passed away from their injuries. He says these brave West Virginians lost their lives in service of their
country. We're in ongoing contact with federal officials as the investigation continues." Going on to say that the entire state grieves
with their families, their loved ones and the Guard community.
[15:50:03]
We should note that the scene, according to officials, has been secured and a suspect is also in custody, which as of a few moments ago, President
Trump confirmed was severely critically wounded as a result of this shooting.
We have our panel back with us and I want to go to CNN chief law enforcement analyst John Miller to get your reaction.
John, now that we've learned that these two guardsmen have passed away as a result of what happened today?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: A picture that is increasingly looking like something happened very suddenly, very
quickly and that it is beginning to appear based on the facts that come together.
There's a strong likelihood that these two National Guardsmen were the target as opposed to they encountered something else going on, on the
street and intervened. And I say that because I am told by sources that at least one of them suffered from a gunshot wound to the head and that this
may have been something where they were targeted by the shooter before anything else happened. And -- and by surprise, the shooter, of course,
also wounded.
Now, the rules of engagement for National Guardsmen in the street can vary from place to place about whether they are carrying their long rifles or
just side arms or whether they're loaded and ready to go or whether the ammunition is carried separate.
In the case of Washington, D.C., the rules of engagement have been if you are part of President Trump's D.C. Safe, Beautiful Task Force, as he named
it, then everybody, the agents from law enforcement agencies, but also the National Guard members are deputized as special deputy U.S. marshals, which
allows them to be federal law enforcement agents while they're on duty and armed with loaded weapons. In this case, we believe that those two members
were part of that task force and did have loaded weapons and were able to return fire because we also know the suspect was seriously wounded and
taken to a trauma center.
So, we're not completely in focus here, but the picture is emerging as one that looks like they may have been the only targets of this shooting.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: And to that point, John, at this point, we do not know of any other victims from this shooting. There are none, no other
victims of the shooting at this point. As you mentioned, that picture becoming a little bit more clear.
But obviously, the tragic update that we got in just the last few minutes is these two National Guardsmen that were shot have died after the
shooting, as was put out by the governor of West Virginia, where these National Guardsmen had deployed from.
While we've been speaking, the vice president of the United States has been making comments about this, saying this just moments ago. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is great to be here in beautiful Fort Campbell, Kentucky. And let me just say -- I want to say
first, before we get started, on a somber note, we had, and some of you may have seen this on your phones or on social media, but apparently, there was
a shooting outside the White House just a couple of hours ago.
And we're still learning everything. We still don't know the motive. There's a lot that we haven't yet figured out. But what we do know is that
a couple of National Guardsmen were injured in the line of duty.
And first of all, I want everybody who's a person of faith to say a prayer for those two National Guardsmen that they're able to spend Thanksgiving
with their families instead of losing their lives, because I understand they're still in pretty tough condition. But I think it's a -- it's a
somber reminder that soldiers, whether they're active duty, reserve, or National Guard, our soldiers are the sword and the shield of the United
States of America.
And as a person who goes into work every single day in that building and knows that there are a lot of people who wear the uniform of the United
States Army, let me just say very personally, thank them for what they're doing. We're grateful to them and we're praying that they're going to be
safe and they're going to spend Thanksgiving with their families. God bless them.
Now, I'm going to talk a little bit --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIMENEZ: Obviously, all of this happening just the day before Thanksgiving.
SANCHEZ: Yeah. And sadly, it appears that the vice president wasn't aware of the news that we just got from West Virginia's governor that the two
National Guardsmen have actually passed away. And as we monitor the situation, more details come into focus. As we just learned from John
Miller, it appears that at least one of the Guardsmen was shot in the head. And that changes potentially the nature of this investigation.
So, I do want to go back to Jonathan Wackrow if he's still with us.
[15:55:01]
Jonathan, I wonder quickly what you make of that detail and how that might shape what investigators are looking at here?
JONATHAN WACKROW, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Yeah, well, it really takes a tragic turn right now. This is a homicide investigation. With those
deaths confirmed, the -- the case formally transitions into a homicide investigation. And when you look at the attack dynamics that John Miller
had described, what investigators are going to do is they're going to work backwards now. They're going to start looking for additional pre-attack
behavior by this suspect.
And the way that they're going to do that is through this video capture that they -- you know, we've described earlier, the hundreds of video
cameras that are around not only this area, but, you know, throughout the district at large. They're going to look back and they're going to trace
back the movements of the suspect to identify was this individual, you know, casing other locations to potentially launch an attack? Was there
directed interest towards other members of the National Guard? They're going to look at all of that.
Again, these attack dynamics, the fact that these individuals were targeted is a significant fact right now. And there'll be more to come as this
investigation continues.
JIMENEZ: And critically here, as we've again learned in the past few minutes of the two National Guardsmen killed, there was this question of
whether they were actually targeted. And at this point, no other victims of the shooting outside of these two. And of course, as we understand that the
gunman also the suspect also in custody, we know that from Metro Police as well.
SANCHEZ: It will be no doubt a thorough and extensive investigation as officials try to get down to the bottom of what happened here. It also
portends questions for the future of this National Guard deployment in the nation's capital, whether the president sees this as a reason perhaps to
expand it.
Stay with CNN, we're going to continue monitoring all of these details. Two National Guardsmen killed in a shooting just a block away from the White
House.
Stay with CNN. Kasie Hunt begins after a quick break.
END
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