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What We Know with Max Foster
Email: Trump Flew On Epstein's Jet At Least Eight Times; Russia Launches "Massive" Aerial Attack On Ukraine; U.N. Security Council Meets At Venezuela's Request; Israeli Government Approves Closure Of Army Radio After 75 Years; Ukrainian Men Go To Dangerous Lengths To Evade The Draft; Supreme Court: Trump Can't Deploy National Guard To Chicago. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired December 23, 2025 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:27]
CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN HOST: Multiple mentions of U.S. President Donald Trump in the newly released Epstein files.
I'm Christina Macfarlane and this is WHAT WE KNOW.
Records show U.S. President Donald Trump took at least eight flights on convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein's private jet. Those records are
included in the latest batch of documents released by the Justice Department. On one flight, the three passengers are listed as Epstein, Mr.
Trump and a then 20-year-old. The president has not been accused of any wrongdoing.
Also in the file release, a 2019 handwritten postcard to convicted sex offender Larry Nassar signed by J. Epstein, which says "Our president also
shares a love of young, nubile girls". President Trump was not specifically named in that letter. The Justice Department says it's currently into the
validity of the alleged letter.
Well, CNN's senior White House reporter, Kevin Liptak, is following.
The president is joining us from West Palm Beach, Florida. And, Kevin, I want to start there because this statement from the DOJ issued, I think, an
hour or so ago, looking into the validity of the letter from Epstein to convicted sex offender Larry Nassar came after yesterday's statement
whether DOJ claimed that files related to Donald Trump were unfounded and false.
Is this the Justice Department in damage control mode here?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, they're in damage control mode for President Trump, which is unusual for the Justice
Department to be doing. They're essentially trying to run cover in a lot of ways for the president when it's notable just how different that is from
what happened on Friday when they released this initial tranche of information. And there were so many photos of Bill Clinton. They made no
mention of potentially a false information about him in that release. And so, you can see kind of the difference in how they've handled each of these
separate disclosures.
Now, the White House, when we were asking them earlier today to respond to some of these different mentions of President Trump in these files,
referred back to that original Justice Department statement, which I think is somewhat extraordinary. You know, this is not necessarily how Justice
Department would discuss information and files. They would only kind of weigh in on the validity of information that they were releasing. If they
were potentially trying to build a case against someone, not necessarily trying to run a P.R. operation for the president.
And so, it is unusual in a lot of ways, but I think you're right that it does demonstrate a recognition by the Justice Department that the White
House and that President Trump have not necessarily been pleased at how they have handled all of this. And you heard Susie Wiles, the chief of
staff, give voice to that in that interview earlier this month when she said she thought Pam Bondi had, in fact whiffed the entire thing when she
first raised this Epstein matter months and months ago. That is, I think, the general view inside the White House as well.
Now, President Trump hasn't responded to any of these latest disclosures. He said last night when he was speaking over at Mar-a-Lago that, yes, he is
mentioned in these files. He said, yeah, my photo is in here. But he said it was basically impossible for anyone in Palm Beach to have not known
Jeffrey Epstein. He said he was just all over Palm Beach.
And this is the explanation that President Trump has given. Before that they met in social circles down here, that eventually President Trump
kicked him out of Mar-a-Lago for being what he called a pervert. And I think the other point that Trump made was also interesting and illustrative
of where he stands in all of this, which was kind of bemoaning the idea that people mentioned in these files, specifically powerful men would
suffer reputational damage by having their names released, even if, in his view, they didn't do anything wrong.
And he included in that Bill Clinton saying that, you know, some people were angry that Bill Clinton was wrapped up in all of this. No. Trump said
Bill Clinton was, quote, a big boy. He would be able to handle all of that. But I think, you know, the president sort of expressing some empathy for
the people who are caught up in this, I think is -- goes a long way in telling you how he is approaching this entire matter.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, entirely. Kevin Liptak wearing many hats today, Venezuela and Epstein, we appreciate you. Thank you.
And now, this drawn-out process of releasing files has caused both frustration and fear among Epstein survivors. One told CNN that this case
was always about more than just one politician.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY ROBSON, JEFFREY EPSTEIN SURVIVOR: Everybody keeps making this political and what we as the American people and what the public needs to
understand. This is not about Trump. This is not about Jeffrey Epstein. This is about a larger network of perpetrators and predators that were
sexually abusing, exploiting and trafficking young girls, children and young women. And at the end of the day, it's not just about one
perpetrator, because as were connecting the dots, we're finding, you know, through the community of survivors that there is a lot more to this that
needs to be unpacked.
And of course, as a community of survivors, we all talk to each other. You know, we share our experiences with each other. We lean on each other, we
support each other, and we've all heard things. And at the end of the day, there are a lot of missing documents thus far, and a lot of redacted,
unnecessarily redacted documents that have been coming out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: And later in the program, we'll be looking at some of the files with ties to British royal family, and I'll speak to a former federal
prosecutor about the Justice Department's handling of the case.
But we turn now to a major aerial attack in Ukraine overnight. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia used more than 650 drones and 30
missiles in the strikes. It says the attacks spanned around 13 regions, representing half the country, and that at least three people died,
including a four-year-old.
The latest bombardment came just hours after the president had put Ukraine's military on alert for potential Russian attacks around Christmas.
CNN's Clare Sebastian has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ukraine's air defenses tested again overnight into Tuesday. Russia's rejection of any notion of a ceasefire,
Christmas or otherwise, once again laid bare in a widespread attack targeting multiple regions of Ukraine from Odesa in the south, which has
come under repeated attack over the past two weeks, to the capital Kyiv and the western part of Ukraine, causing Poland once again to scramble jets, it
said as a preventative measure to protect its airspace. Energy facilities among the main targets, causing widespread blackouts. Thermal power plants
were hit.
And the International Atomic Energy Agency said two nuclear power plants had to reduce power generation electrical substations and concerns about
the grid becoming unstable.
And it was a deadly attack for civilians. This is the aftermath of a strike in the western Zhitomir region that killed a four-year-old child. Two
adults were also killed in the Kyiv region.
President Zelenskyy had warned about Russia stepping up attacks ahead of Christmas. But in a war that sees attacks on this scale pretty regularly,
this was the second biggest in December. What it does underscore is Moscow's clear intention to ramp up the pressure on Ukraine militarily, to
try to weaken its position in talks, and that applies also to the front lines. Ukraine's military saying Tuesday it had withdrawn from the small
Donetsk town of almost two weeks after Russia claimed to have captured the town. Not a strategic loss, but it does reinforce Russia's manpower
advantage and the fact that the front line is moving, albeit slowly, as Ukraine races to try to reach a durable peace settlement.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: The U.N. Security Council is meeting at Venezuela's request, over what the country calls U.S. aggression. President Donald Trump is
using the U.S. military to try to pressure President Nicolas Maduro to give up power. The U.S. is trying to enforce a blockade of sanctioned oil
tankers sailing to and from Venezuela, and is repeatedly striking alleged drug boats, killing dozens of people.
Well, it's not just ships the U.S. is worried about. The U.S. Coast Guard and international authorities are reporting an increase in so-called narco
subs. These are homemade submarines used by traffickers to smuggle cocaine across the ocean.
CNN's Patrick Oppmann has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. Coast Guardsmen raced to board a so-called narco sub in the eastern Pacific with 17,000
pounds of cocaine aboard. They don't have a moment to lose.
Drug traffickers will often flood and sink the vessels before law enforcement can seize cargo to transport. Since his 2019 incident,
officials say the phenomenon of DIY subs built to traffic narcotics and the distances they travel have increased dramatically.
JOSE FERREIRA, MARITIME ANALYSIS AND OPERATIONS CENTER: This is a modus operandi that the criminal groups are now using a lot more and more. It's a
clearly a growing threat towards Europe and it's very hard for us not just to detect, but also to interdict.
OPPMANN (voice-over): Experts say narco subs travel just under the surface of the water and are painted to match the color of the ocean. They're often
built in mangroves near the ocean in South America, where thick tree cover hides them from law enforcement and satellite surveillance. Increasingly,
the narco subs are traveling to new markets thousands of miles from where they are assembled.
Last month, this narco sub, believed to have crossed the Atlantic from South America, was seized off the coast of Portugal with nearly two tons of
cocaine aboard. Portuguese police arrested the four-man crew aboard. Even though narco subs can cost up to $1 million to build, maritime authorities
say they are often discarded after only one drug run.
In January, police discovered this sunken sub mysteriously abandoned near the coast of Spain. Police divers managed to raise the damaged sub and
towed it into port as potential evidence.
Increasingly alleged, smugglers transporting drugs by sea face a new threat. In October, the U.S. military destroyed the suspected narco sub in
the Caribbean.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That was a drug carrying submarine built specifically for the transportation of massive amounts of
drugs. Just so you understand, this was not an innocent group of people. I don't know too many people that have submarines.
OPPMANN: Two alleged crew members of the sub were killed in the strike. Two survivors were transported to their home countries where they were
released for lack of evidence.
The threat of U.S. strikes is an added danger to an already risky profession.
HENRY SHULDINER, INSIGHT CRIME: There's many, many risks that can happen. Whether it's a mechanical failure, whether it's rough seas, you know, bad
weather that they encounter, law enforcement. You know, if something goes wrong, there's almost no margin for survival.
OPPMANN: But once again, the smugglers knack for adaptation may be one step ahead. In July, the Colombian navy seized what they say was an
unmanned narco sub equipped with a Starlink dish. Soon, counter-narcotics officials say drug cartels may deliver their dangerous contraband across
oceans by remote control.
Patrick Oppmann, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Activist Greta Thunberg has been arrested in London for protesting in support of hunger strikes linked to the group Palestine
Action. She also held a sign reading "I oppose genocide". The U.K. has banned Palestine Action as a terrorist organization that aims to disrupt
the operations of weapons manufacturers supplying the Israeli government. A high court decision on whether to uphold the ban is pending.
Meanwhile, one of Israel's oldest media institutions will soon be off the air. The Israeli government plans to pull the plug on the country's Army
Radio this March. The move is raising concerns over press freedom and the state of public broadcasting.
CNN's Matthew Chance reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, this is the controversial closure of Army Radio in Israel, a 75-year-old media
institution in this country, in what's been seen as a political move, which is fueling mounting concerns over press freedom.
The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has justified the closure by saying that only countries like North Korea have a military station
broadcasting under army control, and that Israel essentially shouldn't really have anything similar.
But Army Radio here is a military unit that also carries news from civilian journalists and hosts several popular talk shows that are often critical of
the military and of Israeli policies.
So its closure is being criticized as part of a broader efforts to control the media. The Israeli opposition leader, Yair Lapid, is among those
criticizing the move, saying the government, quote, "doesn't know how to deal with the cost of living or the neglect of the security situation, so
it shuts down the media."
But in another controversial move, the Israeli government has also extended legislation to close down foreign media outlets that, quote, "pose a
concrete threat to national security."
The so-called Al Jazeera Law, which was used against the Qatar-based channel last year after Israeli officials described as hostile and biased
its coverage of the Gaza war. Was meant to be a temporary measure, it's now been extended through 2027.
All of this comes against the backdrop of an increasingly hostile environment for journalists in Israel and the Palestinian territories.
In Gaza alone, in the past few years, during the war there, more than 200 journalists have been killed, according to human rights groups. So it's in
this context that the latest media developments in Israel are being viewed.
Matthew Chance, CNN, in Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MACFARLANE: Coming up, dodging the draft in Ukraine. Thousands of desperate men are going to dangerous lengths to avoid fighting Russian
forces.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:17:52]
MACFARLANE: Some news just coming in to CNN. A plane carrying the chief of staff of the Libyan military has been lost after leaving the Turkish
capital, Ankara. That's according to the Turkish interior minister.
In a statement, he said the jet carrying the army chief and four other passengers was lost around 40 minutes after taking off from Ankara. The
minister said the plane was en route to Tripoli. According to our affiliate CNN Turk, the aircraft reported an electrical emergency and requested to
return to the airport before contact was lost. We'll have more details on this as soon as we get them.
Now, as negotiations to stop Russia's war on Ukraine failed to make headway, thousands of Ukrainian men are desperately trying to avoid
conscription. Many are going to dangerous lengths, even risking death, to avoid fighting Russian forces.
CNN's Clarissa Ward reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN BENGA, DIRECTOR, SALVAMONT MARAMURES MOUNTAIN RESCUE: So what you see on the right-hand side, there's Ukraine.
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Dan Benga knows how dangerous these mountains can be. He and his team have
rescued hundreds of Ukrainians who tried to cross them.
BENGA: They don't have the knowledge; they don't have experience. And they don't have professional equipment. Because on these mountains, you need
professional equipment to be alive.
WARD: To survive.
WARD (voice-over): The Carpathian Mountains that cut along Romania's 400- mile border with Ukraine have become a deadly magnet for Ukrainian men
fleeing conscription at home and seeking freedom in the E.U.
WARD: You can see how steep these mountains are. It is frankly astonishing that up to 100 Ukrainians are making this crossing still every single week.
WARD (voice-over): The risks are huge. Since Russia's invasion in 2022, the Salvamont Mountain Rescue Service has carried out countless perilous
missions that have saved 377 Ukrainian lives. The longest operation lasted nearly six days. Not everyone makes it.
The Romanian Border Police say 29 Ukrainians have died crossing the mountains and the Tisza River that separates the two countries.
[15:20:07]
BENGA: This is a job we were prepared. We are training every day and this is a job we are doing. It's not about being Ukrainian or Russian or
American; it's about being human.
WARD: A human being.
BENGA: Yes.
WARD: So if you could deliver a message to the men of Ukraine, would you tell them stop trying to cross through these mountains? It's too dangerous.
BENGA: I really can't say don't cross the mountains. I can say take care of you.
WARD (voice-over): It's a lesson that Dima (ph), who asked us not to reveal his identity, learned the hard way. He made the crossing shortly
after receiving his draft papers early on in the war. Things quickly went wrong when his group got lost.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Minus 20 degrees Celsius, without food, without water.
WARD: No water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): No.
WARD: No food?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Only snow.
WARD: Just the snow?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): I walked 20 kilometers barefoot. I realized I had problems with my feet but at that time, I didn't feel it. I
only felt it when I was already in the hospital.
WARD: And then, did they have to remove all the toes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Yes. If the rescuers hadn't found me within two hours, I wouldn't be talking to you now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Freedom.
WARD (voice-over): Stories like Dima's (ph) have done little to stop the flow. According to the Romanian Border Police, more than 30,000 Ukrainians
have entered the country illegally since the war began.
Martial law prohibits eligible men between the ages of 23 and 60 from leaving Ukraine. Many see crossing these mountains as their only option.
Numbers are down from their peak in 2024, when the mobilization age was lowered to 25. But even now, as winter sets in, the crossings continue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (translated): Friends, this is the place for a proven, safe, reliable and fast way out abroad for men.
WARD (voice-over): For those who can afford it, some smugglers openly sell their services on TikTok and Telegram; 9,000 euros to get to Moldova,
12,000 euros or around 14,000 to Romania.
Artem, as he calls himself, says he helps facilitate these escapes.
ARTEM, BORDER-CROSSING FACILITATOR: We rescued, I think, more than, in this moment, more than 600 people.
WARD: I find it really interesting that you use the word rescue.
ARTEM: Of course, because I see the situation like that. And I think we rescue people who just want to leave, to build their future.
WARD: And what do you say to people who view you and who view those who are trying to leave as traitors?
ARTEM: I don't take care about them, to be honest. I help people, I save people.
WARD (voice-over): Ukrainian authorities see it differently, faced with a manpower crisis as the war heads toward its fifth year. Men caught trying
to leave the country illegally are rounded up. Some have reported being mobilized shortly afterwards.
WARD: Hi, Victor, how are you?
WARD (voice-over): Thirty-four-year-old Kyiv taxi driver, Viktor Pinkhasov, has just crossed into Romania.
WARD: I'm glad you're OK. You survived.
VIKTOR PINKHASOV, UKRAINIAN DRAFT EVADER: Yes, thank you.
WARD: How long did it take you?
PINKHASOV: Five days, four nights.
WARD: Five days, four nights, walking through the mountains?
PINKHASOV: Yes, yes, three big mountains.
WARD (voice-over): He says the journey was tough but the decision to leave was easy. His five-month-old daughter, Eva, is in Switzerland and he has
little faith in ongoing negotiations to end the war.
WARD: Do you believe that there is going to be peace?
PINKHASOV: No.
WARD: No?
PINKHASOV: I want to believe but I see nobody wants peace.
WARD: What's the most important reason you left?
PINKHASOV: My daughter, freedom. I want to live and understand that I'm free. I can't go, I can't live in prison. I'm a free man.
WARD (voice-over): It is a bleak outlook shared by many Ukrainian men, willing to leave their homeland behind to take their futures into their own
hands.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Maramures, Romania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:27:58]
MACFARLANE: This just in. The U.S. Supreme Court has blocked President Donald Trump from deploying the National Guard in Chicago. It's a rare
defeat for the Trump administration at the high court. The White House wanted National Guard troops to protect immigrant immigration agents
working in Illinois. The order says the government has failed to identify a source of authority that would allow the military to execute the laws
there.
Well, back to our top story today now. The latest revelations from the Epstein files, among with the new documents released are emails from A. In
one email, A asked Epstein's girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, "How's L.A.? Have you found me some new inappropriate friends?"
The A appears to be someone connected to the British royal family. The person in the email is not explicitly identified as Andrew Mountbatten-
Windsor. CNN has attempted to reach out to representatives of the Mountbatten-Windsor household for comment.
CNN's Marshall Cohen has been looking through today's Epstein files release and joins us now.
So obviously, as I was saying there, Marshall, this person not explicitly identified as Prince Andrew, simply as A, although we do know that Prince
Andrew and Ghislaine Maxwell knew each other. They moved in the same circle.
So, what more have you been learning about this series of emails?
MARSHALL COHEN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: If that wasn't bad enough, Christina, asking for inappropriate friends, there's an even worse email -- at least
in my opinion it's worse. From 2002, where Ghislaine Maxwell is also communicating with A, also going by the "invisible man" in those emails.
And the discussion is about an upcoming trip to Peru.
Sounds harmless enough. It was an official state visit that Prince Andrew did at the time to Lima, Peru. But these discussions were not all official
business. There was talk about meeting up with girls and discussion of, quote, two-legged sightseeing.
[15:30:00]
Apparently referencing people, and this is a quote from an email, "women who were intelligent, pretty fun and from good families."
Look, there was also discussion of more normal stuff like sightseeing and hiking. But this and stuff like this is exactly why there have been so many
allegations and rumors swirling around Prince Andrew for a long time now, because of his long standing, well-documented relationship with Jeffrey
Epstein. And he, of course, did infamously settle a civil case a few years ago with one of the survivors of Epstein's abuse, who had also levied some
allegations against him as well.
So, all these years later, still new material coming out, and I should remind everybody, Christina, that we're learning about this because there
was a bipartisan consensus in the United States Congress to demand the release of these files. Donald Trump did not want this to get out. He had
lobbied for months against the release of these materials. There was enough of a veto proof majority in both the House and the Senate. They passed a
law last month forcing the Justice Department to put this stuff out, 30,000 files came out today. Hundreds of thousands of pages last week. And the
officials here say there are more to come.
MACFARLANE: Yeah. And we know, of course, that you, others at CNN, are still picking through those 30,000 files. Among them, we know that Donald
Trump's name was mentioned many times. He has, of course, denied any wrongdoing. But how potentially damaging could this be for the president,
given what's been revealed?
COHEN: Well, look, Donald Trump has made a living in the last ten years being unflappable and having a Teflon reputation. He's made it this far. He
was kicked out of the White House in 2020 and sent right back in 2024. So he's overcome a lot.
But one of the things I should point out that regardless of how it plays, it is important to get to the truth. That's the whole point. It's called
the Epstein Files Transparency Act. That was the law that was passed. The truth and transparency.
And one piece of truth that we learned earlier today from an email from Justice Department prosecutors was that they actually believe that Donald
Trump was on Jeffrey Epstein's private plane eight times in the 1990s.
Remember, Donald Trump has denied ever being on Epstein's private plane. This email that we read earlier today from a prosecutor, it was from 2020.
They were preparing the case against Ghislaine Maxwell, and they found the flight logs putting Trump on Epstein's jet eight times, including with some
women that were potential witnesses in the Maxwell sex trafficking trial -- Christina.
MACFARLANE: There's certainly more to come from this.
But for now, Marshall Cohen, appreciate it. Thank you.
COHEN: My pleasure.
MACFARLANE: Now, it's the final moments of trade on Wall Street, and stocks have pulled their way into the green. The Dow is just up slightly in
the last full trading day before Christmas.
This is our business breakout.
The U.S. economy grew faster than expected in the third. GDP growth came in at 4.3 percent, the fastest rate in two years. President Trump claims his
tariffs were the reason behind the numbers. While some economists warn wealthy Americans were driving much of the growth.
China has hit back at the United States after the U.S. government moved to ban new drones made overseas. U.S. regulation has ruled that foreign drones
pose a national security risk, a move that will affect companies like the DJI, the world's largest drone maker. A Chinese foreign ministry
spokesperson called it discriminatory.
An embarrassing moment for CBS News. A day after causing uproar by pulling a story from "60 Minutes", the story in question was accidentally published
on a Canadian streaming platform. The piece, on a notorious El Salvadorian prison, was quickly shared around the world.
And the big addition is coming to the U.S. weight loss market. The Food and Drug Administration has approved a pill version of Novo Nordisk weight loss
drug Wegovy. The pill version uses the same type of ingredients as the injections. Currently, Wegovy and diabetes drug Ozempic only have
injections on the market.
CNN health reporter Jacqueline Howard has more on the approval of the Wegovy pill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACQUELINE HOWARD, CNN HEALTH REPORTER: This is a major development that the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved a pill version of the
Novo Nordisk Wegovy GLP-1 medication.
Now, how does the pill form compare with the injections, which we know have been widely used and widely available? Well, they're very similar. Both
versions of this medication include the active ingredient semaglutide. They're also very similar in their safety and efficacy. When you look at
clinical trial data, patients who took the Wegovy pill, they saw an average weight loss of 14 percent over the course of 64 weeks.
[15:35:11]
We do know that the side effects are also very similar, mostly gastrointestinal. So really a key difference here is how the medications
are administered with the Wegovy injections. They're given weekly. But with the Wegovy pill its taken daily. It's taken daily on an empty stomach.
After patients take the pill, they should avoid food, drinks and other medications for at least 30 minutes.
And there have been questions about how much the Wegovy pill will cost. Well, for the starter dose, that will cost about $149 for patients paying
out of pocket. But with GLP-1 medications over time, you do go up in dosage, and we don't know yet how much those additional doses will cost.
We're being told that those price tags will be announced next month in January.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Welcome back.
Returning to our top story now and something we were discussing a little earlier in the show. The U.S. Justice Department is taking the unusual step
of issuing a disclaimer about some of the Epstein files, referencing President Donald Trump. They posted, some of these documents contain untrue
and sensationalist claims made against President Trump that were submitted to the FBI right before the 2020 election. To be clear, the claims are
unfounded and false, and if they had a shred of credibility, they certainly would have been weaponized against President Trump already.
So, what we want to know is why has the Justice Department intervened on some of these files?
Joining me now to discuss is Gene Rossi, a former federal prosecutor.
Great to have you with us.
I'm sure, Gene, you will have seen also in the last hour or so, that the DOJ have also questioned the validity of a letter sent from Jeffrey Epstein
to convicted sex offender Larry Nassar.
[15:40:08]
So how unusual is it for the DOJ to be intervening like this around files that mention a specific person? In this case, of course, Donald Trump?
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It doesn't surprise me at all, Chrissy, and here's why. When you have your two former personal criminal
defense attorneys holding the top spot in the second most important spot in the Department of Justice, and those two individuals and those offices are
working hand in glove with the White House, which should not be done, especially in responding to a congressional statute, you're going to get an
infusion of political commentary in what they disclose.
What the Department of Justice should be doing in its long history is just present the facts, comply with the law. Don't editorialize, don't add a
political narrative to it, and just release the documents redacted or unredacted, and comply with the congressional statute. That's what should
have been done. It wasn't done here.
MACFARLANE: There's questions, too, over the competency of the DOJ. I mean, survivors have been criticizing the protracted manner in which these
files have been released. The attorney general, Pam Bondi, is being threatened with legal action being held in contempt of court. How do you
think the DOJ have really handled the release of all these files?
ROSSI: Well, Donald Trump gives the economy an A-plus-plus-plus-plus-plus. I give their handling -- the Department of Justice handling -- a C-minus-
minus-minus-minus-minus. It's been horrendous.
What the Department of Justice has been doing, in my view, is shooting first, aiming later. And even then, they miss. What they have done is in
the two or three percent of the files, two or three percent of the 300 gigabytes, they have stepped on their toes.
They have made a comedy of errors, and it looks like a clown show. And the reason I say that is this, they go and redact 100 pages of a grand jury
transcript and realize they messed up, and now they have to supply multiple pages with non redactions.
Number two -- and this is the most egregious, Chrissy -- they listed a victim. They listed at least one victim. And after they were told they
listed that one victim, the name still stayed on the documents for a period of time. I think they've now redacted.
The third thing they've done, which is beyond belief, they have put into the public record pdf files, but they used the wrong program for redaction.
So, I have heard and I have to verify, there's a program that can get behind the redactions. So, if they blacked out Gene Rossi's name, I was a -
- I was an accused. They blacked out my name. There's a program that can be used to get behind that redaction to find that it's Gene Rossi. That's
another mess up.
And the reason this is all happening is you have lost in the Department of Justice a fair amount of institutional knowledge, skill and brilliance.
People have been fired or resigned. So, who's minding the store is a question that I have to ask. So far, they have handled this three percent
horribly, and I can't imagine how they're going to respond and react with the other 97 percent. Very disappointing.
MACFARLANE: Yeah, that's great context because, I mean, many people believe that given the fact that they're dealing with tens of thousands of
documents here, that this is a tall order for the DOJ. But as you say, they quite rightly have made some errors here, which they've admitted to, that
should not have been made in the first place.
Are any of these releases likely to lead to further action, either from the victims or those being accused of wrongdoing? How do you see that?
ROSSI: That's an excellent question. The first question you have to ask is in the release, are there individuals who should be investigated and
possibly charged. One barrier to that is the statute of limitations may prohibit the federal or state governments from prosecuting, because the
actions that were criminal happened too far back in a statute of limitations prohibits it.
But what, what to me, the gestalt of all these files is this how, in the historical record did the federal and state prosecutors handle people who
were rich and powerful and how they handled those people to the detriment of the victims, who were very -- you know, you know, susceptible to the
entreaties of the rich and powerful men.
[15:45:20]
And they were not themselves rich and powerful.
It's power versus those who don't have it. And that's a lesson that can always be learned in the prosecution of individuals, even if the statute of
limitations doesn't allow any prosecutions. It's a learning lesson.
And the last point I want to make on this is the MAGA crowd, including President Trump in 2024, if not before, had been pushing for the complete
and utter disclosure of the entire Epstein file. And now that they're calling his bluff, if you will, and Mr. Trump's name appears to be
prevalent in many of these files, they're now backing away from that campaign promise because it may be embarrassing to Donald Trump.
MACFARLANE: Well, I mean, as we know lawmakers are calling aren't they, for more legal action against Attorney General Pam Bondi. We may yet see
more files being forced out into the open. And there is certainly more to come from this.
But, Gene, your analysis really cuts through. Appreciate it today. Thank you.
ROSSI: Thank you
MACFARLANE: Still to come, what would you do with $1.7 billion. That's the jackpot for the Powerball lottery's Christmas Eve draw. The details are
next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACFARLANE: Someone could be about to land a very big Christmas present. The Powerball jackpot has jumped to an estimated $1.7 billion for
tomorrow's Christmas Eve drawing. That's after nobody won the grand prize on Monday. Nine tickets still claim $1 million prizes. The new jackpot is
still short of the all time U.S. Powerball record of $2.04 billion in 2022.
So, what we don't know is what should you do if you win more than $1 billion on the lottery?
Joining me now is Kurt Panouses. He's an attorney known as the lottery lawyer, who's advised several lottery winners.
[15:50:02]
That is a very niche job, sir.
So, let's talk about this because I would imagine the tax implications of winning $1.7 billion are going to be absolutely huge here. So what is your
advice for the best way to collect your prize? Do you think lump sums or installments are the best way to go here?
KURT PANOUSES, LOTTERY LAW EXPERT: Sure. Well, thanks for having me.
First off, that is a decision that the winner or winners will have to make is the difference between taking a cash lump sum or an annuity. For most
people that I've looked at after running the numbers, it's clearly better to take the cash lump sum versus the annuity.
There's so many things that can go awry with the annuity. It sounds good on paper because you start out at $15 million, $16 million and you get up to
close to $80 million or $90 million by the 30th year. But the annuity is based on treasuries and treasury bills that are probably averaging about
3.75 percent right now.
So, the question really is, can your advisor outperform treasury bills. And generally, they should be able to do that.
So, unless someone comes to me and says, hey, listen, I'm a spendthrift, I will -- I will just go through every dollar I have. It's much better for
most people to take the cash lump sum.
As far as the taxes go, you know, once you build in the federal taxes, which will be 24 percent immediately, then another 37. Another 13 percent
in April, which will be a total of 37 percent. And then you build in your state taxes, the amount that the winner will actually walk away with will
be around $450 million.
MACFARLANE: Oh, wow. Gosh, that is huge tax implications then. So, what do you -- how do you advise clients to go about, you know, going public about
their winnings? Do you think it's a good idea for people to go on record?
PANOUSES: No, no, that's probably the worst thing that they can do. And I think that's really where someone has to understand that these dollar
amounts that we're talking about, it's necessary for there to be a plan put together. This is more than a claim.
I keep saying that a claim is a $500,000 win, $1 million win. But when you're talking about $1.7 billion or $450 million nets, you need a plan in
place, because not only is there income taxes associated with it, but there's also the potential for gift taxes once you go over $15 million of
giving assets away, you're at a flat 40 percent gift tax.
MACFARLANE: Yeah.
PANOUSES: So again, it's necessary for there to be a plan in place for the winner or winners, where we talk about all the options that they have.
MACFARLANE: So talking about that plan then, what are the best things to do with your money after the big win?
PANOUSES: Well, you want to make sure that you find a good solid financial group. Sometimes people at this level will say, hey, I want two financial
groups. I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket. You want someone that's going to take into consideration what your needs are, what your
income is.
You know, if you -- if you win $450 billion to $500 million at 5 percent, if you just spend 5 percent, which is pretty, pretty easy to do as far as a
return without any risk. You're talking about somewhere between $24 million to $26 million that someone could spend every year and never touch that
$450 million, which can grow and double, possibly triple over that 30-year time period.
So again, putting a plan together, getting the right people around you that will make you successful. That's what I try to do. I've been successful
with helping over 60 jackpot winners over the course of my career. So, getting experienced attorney involved and putting a plan is paramount.
MACFARLANE: Well, it's not something all of us need to think about, but it must be fascinating for you to watch how people's lives evolve and change
with these huge, mind boggling sums of money.
Kurt, we will wait to see what the outcome is tomorrow night, and I'm sure you'll be a busy man. Thank you for joining us.
PANOUSES: Thank you.
MACFARLANE: And now you could call it a holiday gift for fans of the artist Banksy. The new artwork from the anonymous British street artist
appeared in London on Monday. It shows two children wearing winter hats lying on the ground, with one pointing to the sky. Banksy painted the black
and white mural on the side of an old building in the Bayswater district.
An identical mural also appeared on another building in central London. However, Banksy's representatives have only confirmed this one work is his.
And finally, this hour special holiday message from space.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASTRONAUT: Greetings to planet earth. All of our friends and family from Expedition 74 aboard the International Space Station, flying high above.
Thinking of you during this holiday season.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACFARLANE: There you see astronauts aboard the International Space Station wishing everyone on earth a merry Christmas and a happy holiday
season. The quartet found time to record this message amidst a busy mission aimed at testing new technologies for future human and robotic exploration
in space.
[15:55:06]
And they were very organized to take those hats up with them, too, weren't they?
And finally, tonight, seasonal cheer was on the menu at the Whipsnade Zoo in England as animals from elephants to red pandas were treated to a range
of festive inspired treats. What's that Christmas tree? The zoo's lead predator keeper said the Christmas surprise was a way to encourage the
animals inquisitive nature and put their brains to the test.
A couple of crackers there, a festive reminder that yuletide joy isn't just for humans, you know?
And that is a nice note for us to end it here. I'm Christina Macfarlane. This is WHAT WE KNOW.
Stay with CNN. We'll have much more after the break.
END
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