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What We Know with Max Foster
Hegseth: Don't "Worry" About Strait Of Hormuz; New Details On U.S. Troop Deaths; U.N. Chief Arrives In Lebanon; Federal Judge Quashes Justice Department's Powell Subpoenas; Sources: U.S. Underestimated War's Impact On Strait Of Hormuz. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired March 13, 2026 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:34]
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The Pentagon claims there's no need to worry about the Strait of Hormuz.
This is WHAT WE KNOW.
The secretary of defense insists the U.S. has a plan for the critical -- that critical shipping lane. We'll hear Pete Hegseth's reaction to CNNs
reporting that the United States underestimated the fallout in the Middle East.
Plus, we'll have new details on the U.S. service members killed in a plane crash in Iraq.
And we're in Lebanon where hundreds of thousands of people are now displaced.
All that is ahead. But we begin at the Pentagon, where the U.S. is calling on shipping companies to move oil through the Strait of Hormuz.
In an interview released today, President Donald Trump said oil tankers should show some guts, with the U.S. defense secretary saying Iran's
threats to attack anyone who ventures there are a sign of desperation, but at least a dozen ships in the Gulf have come under Iranian fire this far
into the conflict, according to various maritime groups, and sources tell CNN that the U.S. underestimated Iran's willingness to shut down the Strait
of Hormuz and didn't realize the full consequences of closing the shipping lane.
The defense secretary downplayed that reporting, saying Iran's actions had not surprised military planners.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: The only thing prohibiting transit in the straits right now is Iran shooting at shipping it is open for transit.
Should Iran not do that? As the world is seeing, they are exercising sheer desperation in the Straits of Hormuz, something we're dealing with, we have
been dealing with it and don't need to worry about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, sources tell CNN, the Pentagon and National Security Council didn't fully anticipate Iran's willingness to disrupt the vital oil route.
But Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth says there is a plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEGSETH: We understood the ability to interdict shipping is something Iran has done for 40 years. It's key terrain. They've used it as leverage. The
world is seeing what they'll do to fight back in that context.
And so, we've heard them talk about taking various measures and we're planning for all of them. So, we have a plan for every option here, We're
working with our interagency partners. And that's -- that's not a strait we're going to allow to remain contested or with a lack of flow of
commercial goods.
So, we're aware of that. We're laser-focused on our military objectives, but also want to make sure our partners across this government understand
we're working with you to make sure that energy flows.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: With more on all this, let's bring in CNN national security reporter Haley Britzky.
Haley, they weren't talking much about the Strait of Hormuz at the beginning of this conflict, but it's become the absolute center, hasn't it?
HALEY BRITZKY, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: It absolutely has. I mean, this is a major, major concern, of course, not just for the rest of the
world, but certainly for the Trump administration, fielding questions about this conflict, how long it will go on for and what the plan is. And as we
just heard, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth insisting that there is a plan, that they were not caught off guard by this CNN reporting, of course,
shows that the Pentagon and the National Security Council had not fully estimated, they sort of underestimated the impact of closing the Strait of
Hormuz, of Iran's willingness to do so.
Sources in closed door briefings, lawmakers -- with lawmakers telling CNN that Trump -- top Trump administration officials said that they believed it
would hurt Iran more than the U.S., that they had sort of underestimated Iran's willingness there. But General Dan Caine, the chairman of the joint
chiefs of staff, making very clear today as well in this in this briefing, that Iran has the capability still to harm friendly forces and commercial
shipping.
So, while Secretary Hegseth is saying this is something they're working through, they have a plan, certainly that risk still very much exists.
Theres questions about when or if the U.S. Navy will start escorting ships through the Strait of Hormuz, and that certainly comes with its own risks
of U.S. forces doing that. Facing drone and missile attacks by Iran.
Still and of course, Secretary Hegseth and General Caine mentioning multiple times this week at the briefing today, as well as earlier in the
week that drone and missile attacks have dropped from Iran. They're seeing the rate of fire of those weapons dropping, but operations are still very
much continuing. And so, it remains a question of how long we can wait. How long until the U.S. intervenes more?
Energy Secretary Wright indicating that perhaps by the end of this month, the U.S. Navy could be involved in escorting ships.
[15:05:02]
But it's something the Pentagon says they're working on, that they have a plan for, what that plan actually looks like and how it will be implemented
is still yet to be seen, Max.
FOSTER: And in terms of the scale of the war, there's been some questions about, you know, is it ramping up? Is it not ramping up? I mean, what are
we hearing from the Pentagon?
BRITZKY: Right. So, the Pentagon today, Secretary Hegseth, at the briefing this morning, sort of taking issue with the way that the media has been
portraying, saying that he took issue with headlines about the war is intensifying. But just today, Secretary Hegseth said again that today would
be the largest day of strikes. They said the same thing just a few days ago at the last press briefing.
So, they continue to show that operations are ramping up. Secretary Hegseth made clear last week that there would be more and bigger waves of
operations coming up, but also at the same time insisting that it is not accurate to say that the war is intensifying. So, there's a little bit of
confusion there. I think about what these operations look like, certainly how long the timeline will go. The administration has not really made that
clear, saying only that it rests ultimately with President Trump.
FOSTER: Okay. Haley, appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Well, the Pentagon has confirmed that all six crew members were killed aboard an American refueling aircraft that crashed in Iraq on Thursday.
Officials say the plane wasn't shot down by enemy or friendly fire. But an Iranian proxy group has claimed responsibility. The crew members deaths
bring the number of U.S. troops killed in the war in Iran to 13. Six Army reserve soldiers were killed in an attack in Kuwait, and another service
member died on Saturday from injuries in an earlier attack.
U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and the joint chiefs chair addressed the crash and mounting military deaths earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAN CAINE, U.S. JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Please keep these brave airmen, their families, friends and units in your thoughts in the coming hours and
days our service members make an incredible sacrifice to go forward and do the things that the nation asks of them. It's a reminder of the true cost,
of the dedication and commitment of the joint force.
HEGSETH: War is hell. War is chaos. And as we saw yesterday with the tragic crash of our KC-135 tanker, bad things can happen. American heroes, all of
them. And as I have with all of them, as we have, we will greet those heroes at Dover, and their sacrifice will only recommit us to the resolve
of this mission.
But war in this context and in pursuit of peace, is necessary, which is why each day on bended knee, we continue to appeal to heaven, to Almighty God's
providence, to watch over and give special skill and confidence to our leaders and to our warriors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Well, Jeremy Diamond has more from Tel Aviv.
Jeremy, many people wondering how this crash happened, but we've got very little detail, right?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, an extraordinary and apparently tragic incident, according to the U.S. military, which insists
that this downing of this KC-135 refueler with six U.S. airmen on board, was not the result of enemy fire and not the result of friendly fire,
something that they needed to specify, because we know that a couple of fighter jets went down over Kuwait as a result of friendly fire although no
airmen were killed in that instance.
But here, the U.S. military says that they are investigating this, and there appears to be some evidence of perhaps a mid-air collision here,
because a second KC-135 refueling aircraft landed safely right back here at Israel's Ben Gurion International Airport, which has in some ways become a
base for some of these refueling aircraft. But you can see in images of that -- of that plane that the a portion of its tail wing has been sliced
off in what could potentially be the result of a mid-air collision.
Again, the United States military says that it is investigating this incident. We should note that an Iranian proxy based in Iraq has claimed
responsibility for downing this U.S. military aircraft, but they've provided no evidence to back up that claim. The bottom line here, though,
six U.S. service members died as a result of this incident bringing the total to 13 U.S. service members who have died since the beginning of this
war.
FOSTER: Jeremy, thank you.
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres is now in Beirut. He says his visit is meant to show support for the Lebanese people, saying on X,
quote, "They didn't choose this war. They were dragged into it." This comes as Israel expanded operations targeting Hezbollah in Lebanon late on
Thursday.
Now, humanitarian concerns are growing for Lebanon's civilian population. The international organization of migration says the number of displaced
people could reach more than a million in the next few days.
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And Isobel Yeung has been speaking to people in the capital, Beirut, many of them now fleeing for their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISOBEL YEUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're back in Beirut now. We can smell the smoke and see these big plumes of smoke from where explosions are going off
in the city itself.
Oh, look at that. Look at that smoke there.
YEUNG (voice-over): Israel has intensified its air campaign on Lebanon over the last 24 hours, in the aftermath of Iran-backed militant group Hezbollah
firing a barrage of rockets towards Israeli territory last night.
Earlier in the day, we traveled to the Bekaa Valley in eastern Lebanon, where many residents have already been ordered to leave by the Israeli
military. As we arrived, another strike warning buzzed our phones.
YEUNG: Let's get out of it quickly. Maybe put your camera down because there's military. Making it difficult because roads are getting shut
because of this warning from the Israeli military to evacuate. We're actually trying to get out of here quickly because this is the exact spot
that the Israeli military is saying that could be a potential strike.
YEUNG (voice-over): For journalists to operate here, we need the permission of Hezbollah, who enjoy significant control and support in this area.
We arrived at the site of a building that was struck just yesterday. A neighbor came over to tell us his version of events.
YEUNG: Did you see the strike happen?
MAJDAMHAZ, LOCAL RESIDENT: Yes.
YEUNG: What did you see?
MAJDAMHAZ: I saw the explosion and the rocket falling. We picked up fingers belonging to small children. These are the "terrorist targets" that
Israel's targeting. That's it.
YEUNG: We heard jets overhead and these guys are saying that we have to get out of this area now.
YEUNG (voice-over): According to Hezbollah and the neighbor, eight people were killed here, including three children.
This is not the only accusation of civilians being killed in this war, though Israel maintains that it only targets Hezbollah infrastructure.
Yesterday, a building in the nearby town of Temnine et Tahta was struck.
Sixteen-year-old Syrian boy Mohammed was dragged from under the rubble. He says at least six of his family members didn't make it.
MOHAMMED, AIRSTRIKE SURVIVOR: We were sleeping in the morning. A jet came and my dad died. And my mom died, and my sister-in-law and her kids.
YEUNG: I'm so sorry. When did this happen?
MOHAMMED: I was sleeping. The strike woke me. I saw my father in pieces.
YEUNG: I'm so sorry. There must have been terrifying.
MOHAMMED: I wish it was me and that I hadn't seen my dad like that.
YEUNG (voice-over): One of so many lives torn apart by a war with no end in sight.
Isobel Yeung, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Now in the U.S., the FBI has designated Thursday's attack on Temple Israel synagogue in Michigan, a targeted act of violence against the Jewish
community officials say the suspect who rammed his vehicle into the building setting it ablaze, is a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Lebanon.
They also say he has documented connections to known or suspected terrorists associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Michigan's governor says antisemitism is climbing in the U.S. and called for responsible rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETCHEN WHITMER, MICHIGAN GOVERNOR: We have seen a rise in antisemitism. We have seen over many years, predating the conflict but certainly, it is
at a historic high, and I worry that that will continue. And so, it's why I am calling on anyone with a platform to be very responsible with their
rhetoric, not to identify or target the Jewish community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Whitney Wild is there for us.
Whitney, this really does feel like a frightening warning shot to members of the Jewish community.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And it's one that the community had been prepared for. I think the small detail that can
get overlooked in this case, but is really reflective of how seriously concerned this community is about attacks, is the number of security they
had here. They had multiple security officers at this building where there were -- there was a preschool here. There was about 140 little, little
kids. I mean infants, toddlers and staff here.
And when you think about having multiple security officers, many houses of worship have none. Many schools have none. Or if they do, they have one.
But this is a community that is on such high alert. They have a robust security presence here we also know that it was only through the heroic
acts of that security team that this was stopped. One of those officers who encountered this man as he rammed his vehicle directly into the building
was injured.
[15:15:00]
Multiple others engaged that suspect and neutralized him. And we know that the suspect died on scene.
Max, as you point out, we are learning more about this man's background. We are learning from sources here as well as a mayor in Lebanon that 41-year-
old Ayman Mohamad Ghazali, who sources say is from Dearborn Heights, which is an area that's about 17 miles from here, had family who was killed in an
Israeli airstrike sometime within the last week. It was -- his two brothers who were killed and niece and nephew were killed, two sisters in law were
injured, and his parents were also injured.
As you mentioned, we have new reporting from CNN's John Miller that he shows up in a database that federal authorities use to track potential
contacts with terrorist targets. And what we know is, again, this is according to John Miller sources, is that the last time he went back to
Lebanon, which is where he was born, he became a U.S. citizen in 2016, his last travel back to Lebanon was in 2019, and he came to the U.S. through
Atlanta.
And in that reentry, he was contacted by customs and border protection. He was interviewed by agents there. He said he had gone back for a hair
transplant when he was interviewed and his phone was searched through by Customs and Border Protection. They found within his list of contacts
people who are known or suspected Hezbollah members.
It is not clear who those people are, what his connection to them might be, but certainly is another very important fact. As you look at the totality
of this case and in an effort to understand how something like this would happen what his background was, what his experience was.
We also know, Max, that he was married to a U.S. citizen but they divorced in 2025 and so we continue to learn more about his background, perhaps
where his mind was within the days that preceded this, what could have been a completely catastrophic incident that only wasn't because of the heroic
actions by the security team, Max.
FOSTER: Okay, Whitney, appreciate it. Thank you for joining us from -- well, from Michigan. Well, coming up, the U.S. is on alert after two
attacks within hours of each other on Thursday, striking those two communities. One there and one elsewhere as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:29]
FOSTER: We've actually just heard from U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance speaking about the war in Iran during a trip to North Carolina. Here's what
he said.
We heard much from J.D. Vance throughout this conflict. Interesting to get his point of view.
Now at least one person has been killed in Iran's capital after explosions at the annual Quds Day rallies in support of Palestinians. Blasts were
reported near the march in central Tehran as large demonstrations took place across the country. State media showed demonstrators burning American
and Israeli flags and holding portraits of Iran's new supreme leader, Mojtaba Khamenei.
CNN's Nada Bashir has more details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NADA BASHIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thousands gathered in the streets of Tehran on Friday, chanting even as explosions were seen in the
capital. Friday marked Al Quds Day, an annual international demonstration in support of the Palestinian people.
Iranians in the capital were seen waving flags and chanting defiantly close to where the explosions were reported. In video broadcast by Iranian state
media, crowds across the country can be heard chanting anti-U.S. and anti- Israel slogans, some even burning U.S. and Israeli flags.
Now, the rally comes after a wave of Israeli strikes over the past 24 hours and a new evacuation warning issued by the Israeli military for areas near
the rally site in Tehran. The warning was posted on X but access to the platform is blocked across Iran, meaning many people likely never saw it.
Despite the ongoing strikes, Iranian leaders have projected defiance under the country's new supreme leader, Ayatollah Mojtaba Khamenei. In a lengthy
written message he purportedly issued, which was then read aloud on state TV, he vowed revenge for attacks carried out by the U.S. and Israel.
Iran's top security official, Ali Larijani, who appeared at the march on Friday, also issued a warning to U.S. President Donald Trump on Thursday,
saying in a social media post, Iran would, quote, "make him sorry for his grave miscalculation" and dismissing any suggestion of a quick victory for
the U.S. or Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Nada Bashir there.
Now, still to come all eyes on the Strait of Hormuz. How one stretch of water has turned economies upside down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:26:19]
FOSTER: We've just heard from the U.S. vice president, J.D. Vance, speaking about the war in Iran during a trip to North Carolina. Here's what he had
to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Officials told us that the new supreme leader of Iran suffered wounds. Was that from a U.S. airstrike?
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it's not totally clear, actually. I mean, it's obviously a very chaotic environment over
there and you have the Israelis striking. You have, obviously the United States striking a number of targets.
So, we know that he's hurt. We don't know exactly how bad but we know that he's hurt.
REPORTER: Mr. Vice President, on the school strike, is U.S. making any adjustments to its targeting to avoid more civilian casualties in Iraq?
VANCE: Well, first of all, we need to complete the investigation, right? Before you do anything, you have to actually understand what happened. I
don't think we fully understand what happened there. The president has made it clear he wants it fully investigated. So that's what we're doing.
REPORTER: Mr. Vice President, the president said earlier this week that you had a philosophical difference than him, that you were less enthusiastic on
the onset of this war. Is that true? And what is your opinion of how it's going?
VANCE: Well, I think you guys again, I answered this question earlier. I'm sorry about that, Taylor.
You know, you asked this question earlier. The -- when you're thinking about a major decision like this, the way the president makes these
decisions is he talks to a lot of people. Obviously, we're thinking about various ins and outs, various options, what this looks like, how to
accomplish our goals, what our goals should be.
And I think it's important for the president, United States, to be able to have that conversation with his team without his team then, and running
their mouth to the American media. So part of what makes our national security team so cohesive is that we all trust each other, and we all have
a very free exchange of ideas. I'd like to keep that going.
Thank you, guys. Take care
REPORTER: Sir, is there --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: J.D. Vance speaking a few moments ago.
Now, a pair of attacks in the United States on Thursday struck at places meant to be a safe haven for their communities. We've been reporting on
that, but instead they've left many rattled and fearing more attacks could be imminent.
In Michigan, a man rammed his vehicle into one of the largest synagogues in the country. Officials say federal databases show the suspect had
connections to people associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon. At around the same time, a deadly shooting happened at a University in Virginia, and it's
now being investigated as an act of terrorism. Those incidents followed two terror suspects being accused of tossing makeshift bombs near the New York
City mayor's home in recent days.
So, what we want to know is how serious is the terror threat in the United States right now?
Joining us now, CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller.
Thank you so much for joining us, John.
I guess for people to people need to, there needs to be a connection between these cases for people to feel a wider threat, right?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, that's correct. And since the war started on February 28th, we are now
coming up on our fourth attack designated as a terrorist attack, two by people claiming to be doing it on behalf of ISIS, another one where the
individual was wearing an Iran flag on a T-shirt that he had under his hoodie. He was killed in the attack. So, his motive is less clear, but it's
certainly suggestive of Iran.
You know, Max, it's interesting because Iran and ISIS are at war with each other. ISIS has done attacks inside Iran, but that's not really the point
here. The point here is both of those entities are against Israel, against the United States and the war has caused a stirring in those chat rooms and
propaganda places on the Internet, calling on people to attack.
[15:30:00]
And what we've seen in rapid succession fairly is for incidents. And it's entirely possible we'll see more in this environment.
FOSTER: It's interesting you say that. Disparate groups battling each other within the region of the Middle East, but actually uniting on foreign soil
in America.
MILLER: The enemy of my enemy is my friend is an old adage.
FOSTER: What do you think? The authorities can do about this? Because I know there's been a lot of reporting about tight resources because of
cutbacks but have they been prepared for this at least?
MILLER: Well, certainly prepared in that from the beginning, at the start of the war the FBI director put out a bulletin to every FBI field office,
every joint terrorism task force, saying ping against your human sources. Look at whatever wires or FISA, you know overhears you have that are
active. Go out and contact, you know look at your open cases to see if there's anything that you've missed or should be revisited, basically
telling them to look for this threat and look for anything that's emerging.
At the same time, the bulletins that went to local law enforcement said, if you see something, say something. We're in a heightened threat environment.
The events of the last two weeks have just borne that intelligence analysis out. We are certainly in a heightened threat environment.
One of the things I think we're experiencing, Max, and this is based on my experience in counterterrorism, is the contagion effect, which is once you
once you see an instance of a terrorist attack and you've seen this in the U.K. that doesn't necessarily spur someone else to do a terrorist attack,
but what it does do is it spurs someone who was on the verge of doing one or thinking about doing one to accelerate that movement and go forward
because they consider it momentum and they're looking at the attention that the last actor got.
FOSTER: Scary stuff. John, I really appreciate your context around it, though.
All right. I just had this into CNN, a federal judge has quashed subpoenas the U.S. Justice Department issued against the Fed Chair Jerome Powell. The
judge said the government has produced essentially zero evidence to suspect Powell of a crime. U.S. president Donald Trump has repeatedly criticized
Powell for failing to lower interest rates.
The U.S. attorney for D.C., Jeanine Pirro is speaking about this currently, I think.
JEANINE PIRRO, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: All the while refusing to produce simple documents. Now, enter local District Court Judge
James Boasberg who's written decision on its face makes clear his antipathy toward president Trump and this administration. He quashes both subpoenas
thereby prohibiting us from reviewing any records and precluding us from submitting records to the grand jury. That grand jury, of course, comprised
of ordinary people.
Ladies and gentlemen, no one is above the law. But for the first time, a judge is ruling that a grand jury subpoena on its face, legal in all
regards can be ignored because a judge thinks the subject is beyond reproach. This is a decision that is untethered to the law. It creates
chaos where any defendant who wishes to evade an investigation, guilty or not, can allege I'm a victim. I'm being targeted and therefore, you cannot
investigate me. And if you find the right judge, you'll buy it.
This is the antithesis of American justice. Exonerating anyone without any records without an investigation or question is not how our criminal
justice system works. This judge has put himself at the entrance door to the grand jury slamming that door shut irrespective of the legal process,
and thus preventing the grand jury from doing the work that it does.
So, what is the law? What is the law? According to the United States Supreme Court, the highest court in the land certainly higher than the
court that Boasberg is on a grand jury, every grand jury has broad discretion to, quote, investigate merely on suspicion that the law is being
violated, merely on suspicion the law is being violated, or because it wants assurance that the law is not being violated. In fact, the court says
a grand jury may act on tips and rumors. Right here are the cases and the citations from the highest court in the land.
And yet this judge is shockingly requiring the government to show something akin to probable cause -- and those are his words, probable cause -- in
order to justify the issuance of a grand jury subpoena. Folks, probable cause is not and never has been the standard that prosecutors in this
country need in order to go into a grand jury. This is not and has never been the law of the land.
And so, this decision today by Judge Boasberg runs directly afoul of our highest court's admonition that courts and judges must not and cannot
saddle grand juries with many trials and preliminary showings that impede a prosecutor's investigation and thus frustrate the public's interest in the
fair and expeditious administration of justice no one, folks is above the law, and this outrageous decision will be appealed by the United States
Department of Justice.
Go ahead, sir.
REPORTER: Do you think that your office's failure to attempt to prosecute six members of Congress --
PIRRO: I'm not here to talk about six members of Congress. I'm here to talk about the act that the grand jury has a job. They look at evidence. They
decide whether they want to indict. If they don't indict, so be it and if you want to know what the judge thinks, go ask him. Next question.
REPORTER: Can I get your reaction to statements from Senator Thom Tillis? You know he's been blocking and vowed to continue blocking --
PIRRO: You know, honestly, I don't know and I don't care. And I'll tell you why. I am in a legal lane. All of the rest is white noise.
I don't care what they say. I have a job. I have the ability to go into a grand jury there are questions that the American public and people in D.C.
are entitled to know where $1 billion has gone, and that's my focus.
REPORTER: But he is asking for an assurance that the investigation into Powell has -- this is -- this has ended. It. Are you willing to concede?
PIRRO: Did you hear what I just said? I just said that this decision will be appealed by the United States Department of Justice. That's the answer
to your question.
REPORTER: How exactly are you --
PIRRO: We're looking at 1001 and we're also looking at a statute having to do with fraud. But it's up to the grand jury to make that decision. We're
$1 billion over in cost overruns -- are you kidding? A billion dollars? We're not talking about huge buildings here.
Go ahead.
REPORTER: Kevin Warsh is Trump's pick, though, President Trump --
PIRRO: I don't even know who he is.
REPORTER: So, isn't this just essentially holding up President Trump's pick or any forthcoming picks since Senator Tillis said he will not vote?
REPORTER: Okay, I don't know how to explain this, but I'm going to try. I've been a prosecutor, a judge, a D.A. and now a United States attorney
for well over three decades. Politics is not the lane I'm in right now. And I have a charge and an oath to the Constitution.
And my job is to present evidence, and I can do so when I can merely on the suspicion that the law is being violated or even just because I want
assurance that it's not. I'm not in those lanes, and I will not allow myself or my staff to be in those lanes.
And that's why we brought crime down in this jurisdiction. We are focused on the law. We're focused on the people of the district. We are not focused
on politics. Go ahead.
REPORTER: His opinion said that you, quote, promptly complied with President Trump's apparent direction to prosecute Powell. Can you just
state for the public record, how did you have the idea or you know, the impetus to start this inquiry?
PIRRO: First of all, he's totally wrong in his assessment of the dates and that's why we're doing a motion to reconsider because he got his dates
wrong. And as far as I'm concerned, this was something that was of public interest. It was something that the Senate Banking Committee wanted
information on, and it is something within my jurisdiction and my charge.
But I want to tell you a story. When I was a young prosecutor, I was one of the first people to investigate child abuse as a crime. Everyone thought it
was a social problem and not a criminal justice problem. The kids are better off with their parents.
There was an organization and that organization didn't have a very good reputation, and it was one of the societies that was out there trying to
prevent cruelty to children. And I set up a relationship where they would bring me cases, and people were outraged that I would deal with this
organization. And my answer to them, 30, 40 years ago, I'll deal with the devil. I'll take a case from the devil. If you can give me information that
will lead me to possibly find a crime, it doesn't matter where a case comes from, it doesn't matter. I can have a suspicion I can read the newspaper. I
can just want to make sure he didn't commit a crime.
So don't make -- the judge is wrong on his dates. He is wrong. That's why we're not only appealing, we're making a motion to reconsider. Okay, I want
to say one more thing and I think it's important that that you guys hear this from me.
There's another way of looking at this, and that is that. The -- it's not just the public being fed up with this stuff. It's the fact that what we've
got are grand jurors who are supposed to hear this, and they haven't been able to hear any of this because someone has decided that they're not
entitled to hear this.
Can you take this? Thanks.
This process has been arbitrarily undermined by an activist judge. We have a process. We have been asking for information.
FOSTER: A bombastic appearance there from the U.S. attorney a federal judge quashing subpoenas the U.S. Justice Department issued against the Fed Chair
Jerome Powell. The judge said the government has produced essentially zero evidence to suspect Powell of a crime, also adding that it appears the
government served the subpoenas to pressure Jerome Powell to lower interest rates. U.S. President Donald Trump has repeatedly criticized Powell, of
course, for failing to lower those rates.
Joining us is Richard Quest.
I mean, this point about not producing any evidence. Actually, the U.S. attorneys referring to that effectively saying the judge made a ruling
without any evidence, but he's blaming them for not giving them any documents.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR AT LARGE: Yeah, I think it's interesting. I was listening closely to what Jeanine Pirro, the judge,
well, said -- she is a judge in her own right from a previous career. I was listening closely to what she says, and her argument is as follows. We
haven't even got to first base here. The judge has quashed the subpoena and hasn't even let the grand jury hear the case. And the grand jury is
entitled to hear the case, to decide if there are any charges. So that's the legal side of it.
On the economic side of it, there'll be huge relief that this has sort of taken away because there was the overarching stench that this was
political. It was designed either to pressure lower interest rates or more likely to pressure Jerome Powell to resign and at least put a cloud over
the last few years of his office he ends in May. So that's the scenario.
And the judge, Jeanine Pirro, says she will search for a crime wherever it may be, and she'll dance with the devil as she said it, if necessary. The
problem is Judge Boasberg, who has been a nemesis, if you will, of the administration.
Judge Boasberg says, no, we're not allowing a fishing expedition here. There's no evidence on this subpoena. Therefore, it must fail. This is the
Fed winning, Donald Trump losing in their view.
FOSTER: We've got some comments from the judge here saying the government produced essentially zero evidence to suspect Chair Powell of a crime.
[15:45:06]
So that was one thing. But then she's saying it has nothing to do with politics.
But Boasberg is saying that there was a mountain of evidence suggesting that the government served three subpoenas on the board to pressure its
chair into voting for lower interest rates or resigning. So, he's actually saying that that's the reason this was happening, not anything to do with
the crime.
QUEST: Yeah. I mean, page 17 of the judgment. I have it in front of me on the motion. Take one of the many examples of Trump pressuring Powell to
lower rates and then attacking and threatening him when he does not. Even the motion itself, even the decision and the opinion itself says, it starts
with Jerome too late Powell. He's too late.
It starts with a whole series of quotes from the president before it even gets into the factual background. The -- on the law itself, you have here a
case where the U.S. attorney says that they have been trying to investigate any wrongdoing relating to the rebuilding and the reconstruction and
refurbishment of the Fed's headquarters. The attorney -- the U.S. attorney says, we tried we contacted, we asked, left messages, we asked for
information, and they were ignored. And that's why they said they went for this subpoena.
But you cannot -- what Boasberg, and bearing in mind all the cases that Boasberg has been in against the administration, where he has been the
sitting judge, what Boasberg is saying is you do not look at this in isolation. You have to look at the animus from the administration to the
Fed chair. And that is a proper account to be taken when deciding whether this subpoena is bona fide. Is it -- is it valid? Is it good?
FOSTER: Yes. Fascinating with those economic repercussions as well, which I know you'll be looking at your show.
QUEST: Yeah.
FOSTER: Richard, thank you so much.
QUEST: Sure. Thank you.
FOSTER: We'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:50:25]
FOSTER: Well, the Trump administration are pushing back against CNN's reporting that it underestimated Iran's willingness to close the Strait of
Hormuz. Multiple sources tell CNN that Donald Trump's national security team didn't fully account for the possible consequences of Iran closing the
shipping route. In response, the White House says President Trump was, quote, "fully briefed on that possibility".
Meanwhile, the defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, called the report ridiculous and unserious. By his own admission, however, the United States
has not accepted all of Iran's military actions.
When asked this week about Iran's attacks on its Gulf neighbors, Secretary Hegseth said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I can't say that we anticipated necessarily that's exactly how they would -- would react, but we knew it
was a possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: And it wasn't just Hegseth Donald Trump has told reporters on more than one occasion that he was surprised by Iran's retaliation against its
neighbors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Amazingly, they're hitting countries that were, you know, let's call them neutral, right? They lived
together for a long time. They -- I think they were surprised. I was surprised, I think. And now those countries are all fighting against them
and fighting strongly against them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Speaking to me here in London on Thursday, the former U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said he didn't know if proper plans were in
place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: No one should underestimate Iran's capacity to conduct asymmetrical warfare. They've proven it
previously. They are practiced at it, and I don't know to what degree. I just don't know to what degree if at all, those considerations were taken
into account here in the decision making.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: So, what we don't know, as John Kerry said, how much did the United States prepare for Iran's counterattacks?
Joining me now is our military analyst, retired Colonel Cedric Leighton.
Thank you for joining us, Cedric.
I mean, of course, it's very hard to predict how wars will play out, but actually, a lot of the tactics Iran's using here have been used before, so
they shouldn't have been a complete surprise.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yeah, that's exactly right. It's one thing to have war plans on the shelf but it's another thing
to understand the dynamics of the country that you're attacking or that you're going after. And in the case of Iran, you're 100 percent right to
point out that they have used these kinds of tactics really for the last 40 or so years.
And that is, you know, one of the things where it's really instructive to know at least the history of the regime that you're working against, and
you're trying to figure out what their possible responses might be. Theres always a degree of, you know, arrogance. I'll say that, you know, when it
comes to putting these kinds of plans together and then thinking that they will submit to whatever you're doing, but that's not really how it works.
The enemy, as I always say, is kind of a trite and overused phrase now, but the enemy does get a vote in how this war unfolds.
FOSTER: And they don't have to do much to disrupt that shipping way, do they? That's the -- that's the effectiveness of the Iranian strategy. So,
yes, they may be running out of missiles, but they feels as if they've planned for that scenario because then they move on to the streets and they
start targeting particular gulf installations.
LEIGHTON: Yeah, that's exactly right. So, when we measure the effectiveness of an operation like epic fury what you're looking at, you know, with the
standard measure is how many ships were just were sunk, how many aircraft were destroyed, how many missile launch sites were taken out of commission?
Those are all legitimate measures, but they're not the whole picture. And we really have to get into a mode where we examine the entire picture, and
that includes, in essence, what amounts to a psychological study of the enemy and figuring out exactly what they would do next to what they're most
likely to do next.
You're not going to always get that right, because you're not that particular entity. You're not that particular individual, but at least you
start to begin thinking about how they're going to react. And, you know, the past is basically always prologue to some extent.
And in this particular situation, you go and go back all the way to the 1980s and you can find the kinds of actions that the Iranians undertook
back then against Iraq and the Iran-Iraq War, and then take them forward to other things that they've done. They are practiced in asymmetric warfare.
They use small boat tactics to do conduct missions in the Persian Gulf and specifically in the Strait of Hormuz. They understand their own geography
extremely well.
[15:55:04]
And that's the kind of thing that you're going to see and you kind of have to put yourself in that mindset when you go against a country like this.
FOSTER: I just wanted to get a quick thought as well, Cedric because we've had this news in the last hour or so that the Pentagon is deploying a
marine expeditionary unit to the Middle East, you tell me. But they're traditionally used, aren't they, to you -- to move quite a large number of
forces onto land or bringing people off land for evacuations? What do you think that's about?
LEIGHTON: So this is -- yeah, this is from the Third MEF, the Third Marine Expeditionary Force based in Okinawa. These -- this unit is basically an
amphibious warfare unit. And that's you know, the potential is that they're going to be used in an amphibious warfare exercise of one type or another.
It could be Kharg Island, could be you know, something around the Strait of Hormuz, but we don't know yet.
FOSTER: I'm sorry. I left you too little time, Cedric. We really appreciate you. Always want you on. So, sorry can't complete your answer, but thank
you for joining us.
I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW. Do stay with CNN.
END
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