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What We Know with Max Foster
Trump: "Whole Civilization Will Die" If Iran Doesn't Make Deal; U.S. V.P. Backs Orban In Budapest Ahead Of Hungarian Elections; Iranians Form Human Chains Near Power Plants, On Bridges; Oil Prices Rise After Trump Threatens Iran. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 07, 2026 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:33]
ISA SOARES, CNN HOST: U.S. President Donald Trump's Iran deadline looms.
I'm Isa Soares, in for Max Foster. And this is WHAT WE KNOW.
Alarm is growing around the world as the U.S. president makes apocalyptic threats, warning a whole civilization will die tonight if Iran doesn't
unblock the Strait of Hormuz. And that deadline is now, by the way, just five hours away.
Mr. Trump says he doesn't want annihilation, but, quote, "It probably will happen". He has made -- important to point out -- previous maximalist
threats during this war, only to back down by extending deadlines. President Trump is now vowing to destroy every bridge and power plant in
Iran if this latest ultimatum is ignored.
And Iran calls the threat baseless and delusional, saying it would only widen retaliatory attacks. It is calling on people to form human chains, as
you can see there, around power plants and bridges. We are seeing, as we can see there from that split screen already happened in several locations
in Iran. Iran says attacking public infrastructure would be a war crime.
Well, as the clock ticks towards that deadline, the U.S. is renewing attacks on Kharg Island, a critical hub for Iranian oil exports. U.S.
officials say military sites were hit overnight, but oil facilities were not targeted. Iranian media are reporting little damage.
Our Natasha Bertrand is in Washington.
So, Natasha, let's start then with these strikes on Kharg Island, because I was talking to a military analyst in the last hour, he said this is part of
a wider strategy, potentially from the United States. What are you hearing?
NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, were hearing that these were actually a series of strikes on targets that the U.S.
military had actually struck before on Kharg Island just last month.
As you said, they did not target oil facilities. They targeted primarily military infrastructure, and it's unclear why. They felt like they had to
go back and restrike them after that first round last month. But what could be happening here is they're trying to, of course, exert more pressure on
the Iranians, show that they can exert control over the island as well as possibly softening up the infrastructure there in order to prepare for a
possible incursion of ground troops, something that President Trump has not taken off the table, and that Iran has, in fact, been preparing for.
As we reported just last week, the Iranians have been fortifying Kharg Island on the ground with mines, with additional air defenses, with
additional military personnel, in the event that the U.S. does try to insert ground troops onto the island and take it over. But at this point,
it's unclear what exactly is going to happen. It is notable, though, that the U.S. is going back to strike these targets as President Trump, of
course, weighs possible major military action against the Iranians, that is due for a deadline as soon as this evening in a few hours.
SOARES: Indeed, I think about five hours or so away. And, you know, we've heard pretty terrifying threats from the U.S. president talking,
obliterating a civilization. But we have seen, as we've just explained before we came to you, Natasha, the president, on numerous occasions,
extending the deadline. What are you hearing about how serious the president is with these threats?
BERTRAND: Yeah, we actually do just have new reporting from my colleagues over at the White House, which says that Trump administration officials are
still optimistic about the progress of negotiations, and they do believe that talks can be held in a way that can avert potential escalated military
action later this evening. But it's still unclear how the Iranians are receiving that right, because we have received mixed reports, including
from Iranian state media, that the Iranians have actually cut off communications with the United States following that threat from President
Trump. The status of the talks, according to my colleagues, again at the White House, remains unclear at this point. Things are still very fluid.
But according to the officials that they spoke to, a lot of this is part of President Trump's effort to put maximum pressure on the regime. At the same
time, officials are saying only he knows what he is going to do and he is going to be the ultimate decider here. And he is prepared to make good on
his threats.
And so, it seems like they are kind of trying to see how diplomacy plays out here. If they can get some kind of last-minute deal. But if not,
President Trump has really backed himself into a corner with the rhetoric that he has made on his Truth Social posts.
SOARES: Indeed. Natasha, thank you very much -- Natasha Bertrand there.
I do want to stay with us. As President Trump warned that a whole civilization will die tonight, his number two man, Vice President J.D.
Vance, was campaigning, as you can see there, in Budapest for Hungarian leader, the man there to his left, Viktor Orban.
[15:05:06]
During a news conference with the far right. anti-E.U., pro-Kremlin prime minister, Vance said there's still time for Iran to make a deal on the
Strait of Hormuz before any U.S. attack deadline. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The president has set a deadline for about 12 hours from now in the United States. We're going to
find out, but there's going to be a lot of negotiation between now and then, and I'm hopeful that it gets to a good resolution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: And what we don't know is, can a deal be reached before Donald Trump's deadline?
Joining me now is national security correspondent Kylie Atwood in Washington. Our Fred Pleitgen, as you can see, there is in Berlin.
Let me go to you first, Kylie, and just pick up with the reporting we're getting from some of our colleagues in Washington suggesting that
officials, Trump officials are still hopeful that that a -- that negotiations can avert tonight's threatened attack. What more are we
learning on that?
KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. That's right.
So according to our colleagues at the White House, there is still optimism within the Trump administration that there can be some sort of agreement.
Whether or not that is a whole-hearted, you know, nuts to bolts agreement to end the conflict or a more selective agreement that will bring a pause
to what President Trump has threatened in these extremely escalatory comments he has made, particularly this morning, threatening to go after
all of Iranian civilization. We don't know what the agreement could look like, but there is some optimism from us, from White House officials on
this.
However, what we're not learning are the specifics of what is driving that optimism, and I think that's significant here. We did hear, as you said,
from Vice President J.D. Vance earlier today when he was traveling in Hungary, saying that there's a lot of negotiations that will happen before
8:00 p.m. He said that the U.S. was confident that they would get a response from the Iranians tonight, before that 8:00 p.m. Eastern deadline
that President Trump has put into place and reiterated earlier today.
But we do know that there has been back and forth between the U.S. and Iran through interlocutors, primarily as of recent the Pakistanis. But we just
don't know what the tenor of that dialog looks like at this moment in time, how active that back and forth has been over the course of the last few
hours, particularly following this apocalyptic -- apocalyptic threat from President Trump earlier this morning.
And rest assured that, you know, you speak to experts and they say that the Iranians really don't respond well to threats like this. They don't like to
engage in diplomatic talks with a gun at their head, a gun to their civilization that is being threatened by President Trump. But Trump has
time and time again used that tactic with the Iranians to no avail of diplomacy, but then to go ahead and go forth with U.S. military further
strikes.
So, we'll have to watch and see, of course, what happens here. The Pakistanis, for their part, their foreign minister is saying that there
were some Iranian attacks -- I mean, excuse me, Israeli attacks on Iran recently that then prompted Iranian attacks on Saudi. And those attacks,
most recently derailed the U.S. and Iran from what he said, being close to sitting down together at the negotiating table.
Can they get back to being close to it? We'll have to watch and see over the coming hours.
SOARES: Stay with us, Kylie.
Let me go to -- let me go to our Fred Pleitgen who has reported, for so many years, of course, on Iran was there right at the beginning of this
war. Fred, good to see you.
Let me pick up really what Kylie was saying and talk about the tenor of this dialogue. You know, Iran's government spokesperson said in the last,
what, two, three hours or so that Trump's threats won't open the door to dialogue? How effective can this maximum pressure be? What are you hearing
from Iranians regarding, of course, these negotiations that Trump administration officials say are still hopeful?
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, I think Kylie is absolutely right that the Iranians are certainly not
people who negotiate with guns to their heads, as they put it. In fact, threats like those most probably make the negotiation process a lot more
difficult because, of course, the Iranians will say that any sort of leeway that they give to the U.S. president or any sort of agreement that they
might enter into, they don't want it to look as though that is the result of those threats.
For the Iranians, it's very important to project the fact that they also have a vote in all of this, and that they have power in all of this. Of
course, being first and foremost, their leverage over the Strait of Hormuz, their chokehold on the Strait of Hormuz. And that's certainly something
that the Iranians say, that that is not going to change anytime soon if the threats by the Trump administration continue.
At the same time, of course, the Iranians have said that they do want an end to the fighting that's going on right now. They, of course, also
understand there is a lot of damage being done to Iran. But what they don't want and what the Trump administration appears to have floated is a
temporary ceasefire. They say they don't want something that's only temporary nature. They want to make sure that there are guarantees in place
that they will not be attacked again by the United States or by Israel, or by both.
So, the Iranians are aiming for something that is larger, of course, very difficult to achieve in a short period of time. One of the things that both
sides seem to be working towards is some possible, maybe a memorandum of understanding to enter into negotiations that could, at the very least,
possibly take the edge of the situation off the situation as it is right now, and cause President Trump to possibly extend that deadline. That, of
course, runs out in just a couple of hours.
What the Iranians have said is, and of course, what is very important is that they understand that if President Trump makes good on his threats to,
you know, unleash a massive bombing campaign on Iran's infrastructure, that there will be major harm to Iran. But they also say that there will be
major harm to the nations around Iran, to the entire Gulf region and to Israel as well. And especially, of course, also United States linked
installations in the Gulf countries.
They say that the infrastructure in those countries will be considered legitimate targets by the Iranians if they are attacked in that way. And
they also have threatened that the chokehold on the Strait of Hormuz is going to be indefinite, then that that waterway could be closed for a very,
very long period of time.
So, the Iranians clearly are saying they understand that the United States has superiority to, to a large degree in the skies, that there's very
little that they can do about a lot of the bombings. But of course, they also understand that they have a large degree of leverage on the ground,
especially as far as the Strait of Hormuz is concerned, but also with the use of their drones and their ballistic missiles to project power into the
entire Gulf region. And especially, of course, also installations linked to the United States in that region.
SOARES: And, Fred, I remember when you were in London, you were here in the studio, you and I were talking and spoke at great length about Kharg
Island, where we have seen Israel and the United States striking once again. I was speaking to a military analyst just in the last hour who's
basically saying to me that there is a potential here for ground troops from the United States to try and have that as leverage.
How do you see -- speak to the importance again, remind viewers of the importance of Kharg Island and what we could potentially be seeing as one
of the strategies potentially here?
PLEITGEN: Well, Kharg Island is extremely important for Iran's oil exports. About 90 percent, I think, of Iran's oil exports go via Kharg
Island. So clearly, that is a vital artery for the country's economic lifeline or is a vital lifeline for the country's economy, especially as
far as oil exports are concerned.
But of course, it's also one that's very vulnerable. It's a very small island. It has the oil terminal that goes into that small island. But of
course, it's something that a large country like the U.S. could try to attack.
At the same time, the Iranians have said that they've beefed up their forces on Kharg Island. We saw those strikes today. It's unclear whether or
not that might be the prelude to some sort of invasion, or whether or not that's a message being sent by the United States urging the Iranians or
trying to force the Iranians into further negotiations.
As far as the Iranians are concerned, they obviously say that, look, even if the United States takes Kharg Island, that does not mean that they have
Iran's oil, because Iran can try and find other ways of exporting that oil. There are, of course, other ways to do that as well. The Iranians can just
cut off the flow of oil to Kharg Island.
At the same time, of course, the Iranians are also saying that if the United States cuts off the flow of oil from Kharg Island, it'll make it
very difficult for the Iranians, and especially for the Iranian military to export any of that oil and get the revenue from that. But at the same time,
of course, it's clear that oil prices would also spike dramatically, even more so than they have already. And that certainly could be big trouble,
not just for the economies of that region, but global economies, of course, that are already reeling from these high prices of oil and gas, Isa.
SOARES: Indeed, indeed. Fred Pleitgen, thank you very much.
And our thanks to Kylie Atwood.
Well, diplomats from countries right across the region, having given up hopes and agreement between the warring sides, but their efforts received a
setback after neither Iran nor the U.S. agreed to a last ditch proposal for a 45-day ceasefire.
CNN's Matthew Chance spoke with one Qatari official about potential off ramps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Given that we're now approaching President Trump's latest deadline -- think it's his fifth
deadline -- do you have any reason to be confident that this crisis can be defused before it's too late?
MAJED AL-ANSARI, QATARI FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESPERSON: We have been warning since 2023 that escalation, left unchecked, will get us into a
situation where it cannot be controlled, and we are very close to that point, and this is why we have been urging all -- all parties to find their
resolution out of this, to find a way of ending this war before it spirals out of -- out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, meantime, strikes have been reported on multiple railway lines right across Iran.
[15:15:01]
Israel -- Israeli military says it struck eight Iranian bridges. They say they were being used to transport weapons and military equipment.
Let's discuss with our Jeremy Diamond live from Tel Aviv in Israel.
So, Jeremy, speak to us about the strategy here from the Israeli side hitting these railway lines.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we've seen multiple Israeli strikes today on infrastructure targets inside of Iran. Railways,
bridges, highways, all sites that the Israeli military claimed were being used by Iran to transport some of its military equipment. But make no
mistake, this is really just the beginning of what could be a much more severe set of strikes on infrastructure inside of Iran should that 8:00
p.m. Eastern Time deadline pass without an agreement here, because not only has President Trump threatened to carry out strikes on Iranian
infrastructure, but the Israelis have also been preparing a new list of targets energy sites, infrastructure sites that it would likely go ahead
and strike with the green light from President Trump. So, wait to see whether or not that happens.
The Iranians, in the meantime, we've seen them already sending, you know, regime supporters out into the streets to form human chains around bridges
and power plants, in what seems to be designed mostly as a show of support, a show of defiance to the threats from the United States, whether those
individuals are still there in the overnight hours when this deadline actually comes to pass is a very different question altogether. But it's
not just about what the United States and Israel could do here to Iran. It's also about the very real threat of significant escalation on Iran's
part as well, because Iran also still has the capacity to escalate, in particular in the Gulf -- you know, targeting oil infrastructure,
desalination plants in ways that they haven't done before.
So, this is really a moment where the entire region is on pins and needles, and we're already starting to see some of the telltale signs that often
precede a significant escalation. Kuwait warning its citizens to shelter in place. The U.S. embassy in Bahrain doing the same to its staff and telling
American civilians in the country to do the same as well.
So, we're starting to see all the people who would know about a coming escalation start to warn people about it. And so, you know, barring a real
change here in the negotiations in the coming hours, it seems that's what we're headed for.
SOARES: Very important context there from Jeremy Diamond. Thanks, Jeremy.
And still to come tonight, is President Trump's hours away from committing a war crime. The U.N. weighs in on the escalating threat in the conflict
with Iran. That's just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:20:44]
SOARES: The U.N.'s human rights chief is weighing in on the escalating tension in the Middle East, calling deliberate attacks on civilian
infrastructure a war crime. This after President Trump threatened to strike Iran's power plants, you can see there, and offered up a jarring ultimatum
-- either open the Strait of Hormuz or whole civilization will die tonight?
So, what we want to know is, would Donald Trump's threats amount to war crimes?
Joining me now is Leila Sadat, a professor of international criminal law at Washington University.
Leila, welcome to the show. Really important to have you with us here.
Let me just then get your take on what we heard from the U.S. president because, look, I think it's fair. Viewers will know this. We are used to
hearing pretty bombastic language from the president. But this is pretty unprecedented language from a U.S. president and this administration,
right? Going after railways, going after bridges across Iran, would then that constitute a war crime?
LEILA SADAT, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL LAW, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: Well, all of those are violations of the laws and customs of
war. And if committed with intent, they are absolutely potentially war crimes. Right? So, we have a clear set of military rules that govern the
conduct of hostilities and threatening to destroy an entire civilization is way beyond what the laws of war permit.
SOARES: Right, and committed with intent. We've heard not just on Truth Social, we've seen on Truth Social, we've heard from Secretary Hegseth,
from various members of this administration. The intent is all there for us to read.
Is that the proof then? If it does go ahead, obviously.
SADAT: So, what -- absolutely, absolutely. What we -- what we have is a set of rules in the conduct of hostilities. And they do allow states to
attack military objects. But when you're talking about railroads, electrical facilities, schools, hospitals, marketplaces, the kind of
attacks that we've been seeing thus far since the war was launched at the end of February, we're talking about civilian objects.
And the bar is very, very high for a commander or for somebody in charge of the military to argue that those are necessary targets and necessary to the
conduct of hostilities, because they offer -- the army trying to promote that an actual military advantage.
And so, what I think we have is clear intent, not only of possible war crimes, but crimes against humanity. And even with the threat to commit --
to commit genocide, to be quite honest.
SOARES: What about the claim, Leila, that the targets are dual purpose, right? This is something we have heard that they're being used by the
military. What do you make of that argument?
SADAT: So when you have a so-called dual purpose object, in order to strike it, because the assumption and the presumption of protocol one and
the Geneva conventions is that these objects are civilian. So, the burden is actually on the commander in chief or President Trump and Pete Hegseth,
in this case, to show that they have a concrete and direct military advantage that would come from striking these, because you always have the
doctrine of proportionality. So, the more essential an object is to the civilian population, the higher the burden on the military commander to
show a real military advantage.
And there are other rules as well. You can't destroy the environment. And here, we're seeing attacks on the gas plant. We're seeing attacks on oil
facilities that are creating tremendous environmental destruction.
So already, I think we've seen a whole series of violations of the laws and customs of war. The attack on the girls school, on the market, on
hospitals, thousands of attacks actually.
SOARES: Yeah. And we're five hours or so --
(CROSSTALK)
SADAT : It has been devastating.
SOARES: It has been devastating. We've seen -- we're about five hours or so away from this deadline. And important to point out that Iran has also
conducted strikes and war crimes on civilian infrastructure in the Gulf. I think that's important for us to point out.
I wonder what you make of what we heard from the president, because the president yesterday was asked about war crimes later, and he doesn't
believe this applies to him. He actually said he was not at all concerned.
But if it does go -- if it does go ahead with these threats, it does make quite a mark -- a significant departure from Washington's previous stance,
right, on war crimes?
[15:25:09]
Four years ago, it was the U.S. under Joe Biden accusing Russia of war crimes in Ukraine. I remember President Biden calling Putin -- Vladimir
Putin a war criminal.
SADAT: And we actually have an indictment at the International Criminal Court. We have four indictments that are based on attacks on electrical
infrastructure and civilian objects, all right, against four Russians who have been accused of war crimes and crimes against humanity in the conduct
of the war in Ukraine.
We also can look back to 1999, when NATO was bombing Belgrade, and there were accusations of war crimes because we were hitting so-called dual use
objects. And there was a report at that time that showed that where an object is a civilian object, like a hospital, like an electrical grid, like
things essential to human survival, modern societies can't exist without electricity. Hospitals have to run on them. Babies are incubators, right?
And the Ukrainians suffered a tremendous amount during the winter because their electrical grids were taken out by the Russians.
SOARES: Yeah.
SADAT: These are clear war crimes. And if committed with intent, are actually crimes against humanity. And the ICC prosecutor has levied
indictments against four Russians. We've seen indictments in the Israel- Palestine situation, and we've seen indictments in many other situations of modern warfare where aerial bombardment is misused --
SOARES: Yeah.
SADAT: -- in a way that devastates the civilian population.
And President Trump is not above the law. No one's above the law. That's what the Nuremberg trials stood for. Nobody is above the law.
SOARES: Then take a step back for us, then, Leila, and put this into context for our viewers right around the world. Are we then entering a new
era where the U.S., this administration, departs from the norms and the principles? Of course, that held up so much of the world and really are --
stood for, for so much.
What does this tell us about the global order -- global order, pardon me, and the risks that come with this? Because this is also opening up
potentially a pandora's box here.
SADAT: Absolutely. So, "Foreign Policy" magazine just labeled the United States a rogue nation, which was very painful to me as a U.S. person.
SOARES: Oh, wow.
SADAT: But it's hard not to see it as violating normally applicable rules, right? The four Geneva Conventions are ratified by every country in the
world. The United Nations charter is a treaty to which all states are parties. The protocols are widely ratified, and if not their customary
international law.
So, to have a superpower with nuclear weapons say we're not going to comply with any of this international law, even though our own Constitution in the
United States, Isa, requires the president to do that. The supremacy clause says that treaties are the supreme law of the land.
So, we really do have the law internally and the law externally, and we have a regime that just says, I'm not going to follow it.
So, what does that mean for the world? Well, that means that peaceful states need to band together to say, this is the law. We are going to apply
the principles Iran could consider joining the International Criminal Court today. It would mean Iran can't commit war crimes as well, which would be a
good thing for the region.
SOARES: Yeah.
SADA: But it could be a protective umbrella for the Iranians.
SOARES: Leila, I've learned so much from our conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it -- appreciate it.
Leila Sadat there for us in St. Louis, Missouri. Thank you.
And still to come right here on the show, the clock is ticking. Donald Trump's deadline for Iran to strike a deal is only hours away. We'll take
you live to the White House for the very latest. That in just moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:32:23]
SOARES: Welcome back.
A quick update for you on our top story this hour. White House sources say there's still hope that progress can be made in negotiations with Iran,
which could lead to Donald Trump to either delay or ease up on his threat to unleash a major attack on Iran. If you remember, earlier Monday, Mr.
Trump threatened to wipe the Iranian civilization off the map. He has vowed to hit power plants and other major infrastructure sites if Iran does not
cut a deal.
Meanwhile, Mr. Trump's V.P. says all of this is going to be over pretty soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States has largely accomplished its military objectives. There are still some things
that we'd like to do. For example, an Iranian ability to manufacture weapons that we'd like to do a little bit more work on militarily. But
fundamentally, the military objectives of the United States have been completed.
So that means, as the president has said very shortly, this war is going to conclude.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Meantime, Pakistan's prime minister has asked Donald Trump to extend his deadline for attacking Iran's bridges and power plants by two
weeks.
And this is just coming in to CNN, in a social media post on X, as you can see there, just a few moments ago, Shehbaz Sharif also asked Iran to open
the Strait of Hormuz for a two-week period as, quote, "a goodwill gesture. And for all warring parties to observe a two-week ceasefire." Pakistan has
looked to act as a mediator between the United States and Iran. If you remember, in recent weeks, Mr. Sharif has attacked President Trump and his
top negotiating -- negotiating team in that post.
Let's go to the White House and our Alayna Treene joins us now.
And, Alayna, what we're hearing from Sharif, of course, from the Pakistan side, but also your reporting that officials are still hopeful about these
negotiations. Tell us what you what more are you learning? Not just about the tenor of the dialogue, but the status of the talks?
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Look, I think what is clear from the conversations I've been having, Isa, with people in the
White House, the Trump administration, is that Trump officials very much are hoping that they can find some sort of diplomatic solution, even if it
is only a temporary one, to stave off these really aggressive attacks, that the president is continuing to threaten.
Again, I think pointing to him saying a whole civilization will die tonight if Iran does not heed his calls. As you mentioned, they told me that
they're hoping it could either one delay, stave off this escalatory action that the president is warning, or perhaps even at least reduce the severity
of the attacks we could see.
As for the status of these talks, look, its very much unclear. We've heard a lot of different reports coming out today about whether or not these
negotiations are actually ongoing. We heard "The Wall Street Journal" report that Iran had cut off or, excuse me, had cut off direct diplomacy.
[15:35:02]
We heard "The New York Times" saying that they had even cut off indirect diplomacy.
What I've been told, though -- we have not confirmed any of that. We've heard the Iranians shoot down those reports. What I've been told is that at
least in the United States, the Trump administration officials are still pushing for these negotiations and hoping for a diplomatic solution.
I was also told, Isa, that, you know, this was two sources who are familiar with some of the discussions happening behind closed doors, is that a lot
of what we are hearing from the president today, this escalatory, aggressive rhetoric is really about trying to put maximum pressure on the
Iranians, to try and force them to a place where they will acquiesce. Of course, the question is whether or not that will actually work.
And I do think what we heard, you referenced this message from the Pakistani prime minister, I think that is a huge, huge deal. We have to see
whether or not something like that one, of course, if Iran would even agree to it. But if something like that could be enough to give the president,
you know, enough of a symbol to point to, to say, hey, we're going to push this off for another week, another two weeks to allow for these
negotiations to continue.
It's very much unclear. The White House, you know, I heard this from the White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt. She essentially told me no
one knows what Trump is going to do, only him. He is the only one who knows how he is going to proceed.
And so we're all kind of standing by for the latest here of whether or not he's actually going to move forward with the -- you know, very much
heightened attacks that he has been warning of, if Iran does not reopen the Strait of Hormuz by 8:00 p.m.
SOARES: Indeed. Alayna , thank you very much.
Important reporting there from our Alayna Treene at the White House.
Well, let's turn to the markets, because it's the final moments of trade on Wall Street, as stocks, as you can see, are down. Dow Jones now about half
a percent as markets really wait anxiously to see if negotiations -- you heard from Alayna there -- between Iran and the United States actually lead
to a ceasefire. Some pause.
This is our Business Breakout.
Bill Ackman's fund wants to buy the world's largest record company. The U.S. billionaire's capital management fund has offered to buy Universal
Music Group, whose artists include Lady Gaga, Kendrick Lamar and Sabrina Carpenter. The announcement propelled Universal stock more than 10 percent.
The war with Iran is choking global supply chains and, in some cases, halting life saving aid. Dubai Humanitarian, that's the largest aid hub in
the world, supplied nine countries with aid in March. That is down from 25 in January. The CEO says sharply rising costs are becoming unsustainable.
And companies are finding ways to raise prices as the war continues. Amazon has announced a temporary 3.5 percent fuel and logistics related surcharge
for third party sellers. The U.S. Postal Service has also implemented its first ever fuel surcharge, applying only to packages. While airlines
JetBlue and United Airlines are both increasing the cost for checked baggage.
While oil prices are rising as investors respond to these threats from President Donald Trump. The global oil benchmark Brent Crude was trading
above $110 barrels, as you can see there, just a bit lower now, $108 or so. The U.S. benchmark WTI on the right of your screen went on to about --
well, at one point, $116, now, $113. That means it's now double this year.
Vanessa Yurkevich is with me.
And, Vanessa, it's so hard isn't it, as we see -- as we try to make sense of what is likely to happen in the hours ahead with these negotiations or
potential negotiations to get a sense of where this is going for traders, for all markets.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, investors and traders are really in that wait and see mode. There's a lot of
uncertainty. There's a lot of holding your breath, waiting to see just whats going to happen at this 8:00 p.m. Eastern deadline.
However, what we do know is in the 24 hours leading up to this, people are nervous, investors are nervous. And that is why you saw oil prices spike
yet again. You have U.S. crude jumping to at one point, as you mentioned, $116 a barrel, right now, settling up on your screen closer to $113 a
barrel. But that is up 100 percent from a month ago.
And of course, that trickles right on down to U.S. gas prices here in the United States. The new national average today is $4.12 a gallon. That is up
more than $0.10 from just a week ago, and up well over a dollar from just a month ago.
And consumers are certainly feeling that as they're filling up every day and seeing a new price at the pump. Also worth noting, Isa, diesel prices
in particular have been rising in a much faster rate, so the national average for diesel prices are $5.65 a gallon. That is not far off from the
record that was set in 2022, when it hit $5.82.
And that is, of course, trickling down to what you just spoke about, which is these transportation costs for retailers.
[15:40:03]
Talk about Amazon having to raise their fuel surcharges by 3.5 percent. U.S. Postal Service doing a temporary surcharge of 8 percent increase in
terms of fuel surcharges for packages.
And then, of course, you mentioned jet fuel, which we've been paying very close attention to, also doubling. So, airlines having to try to figure out
how to minimize that cost impact to consumers. One of the ways that you explained is that they're raising checked baggage fees or pulling back on
the amount of flights that they're offering just to kind of try to ease the pain for consumers, because demand right now is still pretty high for
travel. And so airlines don't want to lose that demand. And of course, when you raise prices on airfares, that's when you start to see a pullback in
demand.
So that is where we stand right now at this hour. But of course, so much can change in just the next few hours depending on what the president says.
Obviously, investors hopeful that maybe there is some sort of brokered deal between the two sides, or at least talks that continue that will kind of at
least keep oil prices where they are right now. If not cause them to drop.
But I think everybody right now, whether you're in the markets or sitting at home listening to the type of rhetoric that's being discussed by the
administration, you're just hoping that there will be a cooling of heads and not an escalation of this war.
SOARES: Indeed. And we had from Pakistan, prime minister asking, of course, for the Strait of Hormuz to be open for a period of two weeks --
two weeks as a goodwill gesture. We shall see. And what, of course, the impact of that will have on the markets and indeed on trade, just right
around the world and the impact we have seen.
Vanessa, thank you very much indeed. Vanessa Yurkevich there.
And still to come this hour, the White House is trying to play down fears that Donald Trump is about to launch a nuclear weapon. Is this the modern
madman theory at work or something more serious? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:04]
SOARES: We are at the extraordinary point of the United States war with Iran, where the White House has gone on record to try and play down
speculation. It may be about use of nuclear weapon, after president Trump threatened that, quote, a whole civilization will probably die tonight. The
Vice President J.D. Vance mentioned the United States had, quote, "tools in our toolkit that we so far haven't decided to use."
An X account run by the White House, said there was nothing in those comments to imply the United States might use nuclear weapons.
Still, Mr. Trump's threats have drawn comparisons to the so-called madman theory of Richard Nixon's presidency. Nixon supposedly wanted North Vietnam
to believe he was ready to use nuclear weapons as a means to intimidate them, during the Vietnam War.
Our global affairs commentator and former Pentagon spokesperson Sabrina Singh joins me now.
Sabrina, great to see you.
Look at -- the language we have seen is pretty unprecedented. I know we are used to pretty bombastic language from the U.S. president, but I wonder
whether this, you know, this erratic manner, the threatening -- the threatening go to war here and the ending of civilization.
Do you see here madman theory at play?
SABRINA SINGH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, I think we were all shocked by that Easter Sunday Truth Social post by the president.
And then just to be one upped by that this morning with some of the vitriol that we saw from that post. I mean, it's quite horrific for an American
president to be saying that.
You know, in terms of the madman theory, I think what you're seeing here is the president using this type of negotiating tactic to try and keep, you
know, Iran and others sort of on edge. I mean, we've seen this style go back and forth. I mean, he likes to broadcast some of his punches. But that
actually hasn't led to results.
And so, we have to look at the pattern, you know, when this war first started and he started boxing himself in, in these timelines and then kept
extending the deadlines, I would argue that each time it hasn't worked. I mean, Iran continues to prove that it has capabilities to strike our allies
in the region and also to inflict harm on our service members.
I mean, look no further than that. F-15E aircraft that went down last weekend and the recovery efforts that had to go into retrieving those two
airmen, which was an incredible military operation. But, of course, that also shows that Iran maintains capability. And then of course, you still
have the Strait of Hormuz closed, which they're able to do quite effectively and efficiently with just cheap drones and minds.
So, will this negotiating tactic work by the president? It hasn't shown to have worked in the past. So I think we're on murky waters for the future.
SOARES: Yeah. And also, there's another element. He's so unpredictable, right, Sabrina. It's quite hard to to figure out whether this is just bluff
negotiating strategy or that there's more to this.
I mean, like you and so many others was taken aback by not just the comments on Truth Social over the weekend, but also what we saw in the last
24 hours from the United States. But I'm not the only one.
Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota, put on X, "The president had lost his mind." Aaron David Miller, who is a well known guest on the show, says
having worked and voted for Republicans and Democrats, Carter through Bush 43, "No president has ever been as immoral or shameful. It reflects a man
who's blinded by rage and anger that he has no way out of a crisis he created."
And I really want to pick on that because you pointed -- you hinted this here that he's really boxed himself in, Sabrina. I wonder whether then this
maximum pressure campaign that really hasn't yielded any results, right? Do you think that Iran will acquiesce here?
SINGH: I think there has been some back-channeling before between the two sides and some of the sources that I'm talking -- talking to have said that
there has been some -- what they have heard is some, you know, some better progress being made, but that doesn't necessarily yield in results.
And I think that's what were seeing here. I don't see that these threats. I don't know that Iran takes these threats seriously either. I mean, they
have been able to not only harden their regime. I mean, this has not been a regime change. It's a leadership change at the at the very top. The people
in charge still have the guns. They still have all the weapons and capabilities to suppress a population from rising up.
And of course, moreover, they have been able to basically choke off the world's global oil supply, 20 percent that flows through the Strait of
Hormuz, demonstrating their power. So will Iran come to the table with these threats that the president has been making?
I don't know that that brings them to the table. Frankly, I think we are dealing with a regime that has to think through its own calculations about
how long they want this war to go on. And frankly, I think Iran has more time than the U.S.
[15:50:02]
I mean, we've heard the president say that, you know, Americans want our troops to come home. We do. And that is something that the presidents own
base doesn't want to see this war go on for too long. So I think the president is up against a little bit more of a shorter timeline than Iran
is.
SOARES: Yeah. And, you know, we were talking about negotiations. We've heard in the last, what, 20 minutes or so from Shehbaz Sharif of Pakistan
saying that hes asking for president Trump to extend the deadline for two weeks, also asking on Iranian brothers as he puts on X to open the Strait
of Hormuz for a corresponding period of two weeks as a goodwill gesture. We're also hearing from Alayna Treene at the White House that Trump
officials are still hopeful that negotiations can avert tonight's, of course, threaten attack in Iran.
How, then do you see this playing out? We've got, what, five hours or so until this deadline? Are we looking potentially at TACO Tuesday here?
SINGH: You know, if I were advising the president right now, I would say take the off ramp.
SOARES: Yeah.
SINGH: You do not hit um civilian infrastructure. Yes, there are -- there are some infrastructure like bridges and some power plants that are dual
use that the military uses and the civilian population uses.
But to say that we are going to eliminate all power plants, all bridges -- I mean, that is going to send this country into potentially a large scale
famine. You're going to see people trying to flee the country. You're going to have a destabilized Iran that is frankly, not good for the region.
So if I were advising the president right now, I'd say, let's take this off ramp. Let's try and let cooler heads prevail. Let's get back to the
negotiating table because at the end of the day, this will be solved with through diplomatic means and not through just, you know, continued bombing
campaign until who knows how long, because we don't really still have an understanding of what success looks like in this war.
SOARES: Indeed. Also, we heard from the U.N. rights chief saying that attacks on civilian infrastructure would be, of course, a war crime. So a
lot for us -- off ramp is exactly what is needed right now.
Sabrina, really appreciate it. Thank you very much indeed.
We're going to take a short break. See you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: The four astronauts who circled the moon yesterday are now on the way home. Today is expected to be a relatively quiet day for the Artemis II
crew. After a day of really stunning images and stunning pictures as they flew around the far side of the moon.
[15:55:00]
Scientists are eager to study, of course, the thousands of images the crew shot, a few of which have already been transmitted back to earth.
And finally tonight, dramatic video of a near miss in Texas when a motorbike narrowly missed a group of children. We want to warn you that
some people may find this video disturbing. This was all captured on a home security camera in San Antonio. A motorbike skids, you can see there across
the pavement, before slamming into the curb and bursting into flames, narrowly missing the kids. You can see that on the pavement.
The motorcyclist was still in flames as he ran across the street. Thankfully, none of the kids were hurt and the motorcyclist is expected to
make a full recovery. Good news indeed.
And that does it for me for this hour. Very busy hour of news. Do stay right here. This is WHAT WE KNOW. Stay with CNN.
We'll have much more news after a very short break.
END
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