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What We Know with Max Foster

U.S. Begins Blockade Of Iran's Ports After Peace Talks Fail; President Trump And Pope Leo Clash Over War In Iran; Israel Continues Strikes In Lebanon Ahead Of Tuesday Talks; Hungarian Voters Reject Orban, Hand Victory To Peter Magyar. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 13, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:26]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: The U.S. begins a blockade of the Strait of Hormuz.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

The U.S. naval blockade went into effect just a few hours ago. U.S. warships are now blocking Iranian ports in the Strait of Hormuz and beyond,

telling any ship that tries to enter or leave an Iranian port that it will not be allowed to pass.

So, the U.S. and Iran are still talking about a deal to open the strait and end weeks of airstrikes across the Middle East. But the angry rhetoric on

both sides makes it seem like a deal is anything but imminent.

Oil prices have spiked again today, approaching $100 a barrel. Iran says its forces are on maximum combat alert as it talks about retaliation

against both the U.S. military and other Gulf nations if the strait is not reopened for those ships -- for its ships.

Let's bring in CNN's senior national security reporter, Zachary Cohen.

So, in terms of action, what are we seeing, Zachary?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, Max, it appears to be an effort by the Trump administration to further increase

pressure on Iran to accept its demands before this fragile two-week ceasefire expires. And they're doing so by essentially trying to one up the

Iranians after they closed, effectively the Strait of Hormuz, to outside shipping. Once in response to those initial U.S.-Israeli military

operations.

Now, the U.S. is saying -- well, if you're going to close the Strait of Hormuz, we are going to try to block your own ships from transiting that

key waterway, really essentially setting off a match of who's going to blink first.

The Iranians do depend on the Strait of Hormuz for its own economic shipping and oil transfers. It is a highly important waterway for their

domestic economy as well. And the United States is attempting to use that as a leverage button, as these two countries continue to have an open

dialogue, but have not yet reached an agreement. As you said, it's interesting to note to hear that while the president, Donald Trump, has

continued to insist that the United States does not use the Strait of Hormuz and does not rely on it, he does seem to conveniently omit the fact

that the Strait of Hormuz is vitally important to the global energy market, and therefore does impact the United States as well as many of its key

allies.

It also impacts key -- in a notable way, China, and China has already come out and said rejected effectively the fact that the United States navy is

going to try to implement this blockade on the Strait of Hormuz, saying that it already has agreements with Iran that will allow it to have free

transit through the strait. But ultimately, this comes down to, Max, is whether its Iran effectively asserting its control of the strait or the

U.S. Navy trying to block those Iranian ports.

This all comes down to the confidence of the shipping industry and whether or not ship owners, tanker owners, those key, those key materials that are

not able to flow through the strait safely. Now, whether they reach a point where they are confident enough to allow their ships to go through. And as

of right now, that certainly does not appear to be the case, even though President Trump touting a slight increase in traffic through that waterway

just yesterday, this blockade will only raise further questions in the minds of those shipping industry leaders.

FOSTER: Zach Cohen, thank you so much.

Let's go right to the Persian Gulf region then. CNN's Clarissa Ward is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

And there's been a lot of criticism of this move, Clarissa, in the region.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Actually, not so much, max, because as much as everyone in this region really wants to see

this resolved peacefully and quickly, and let's be very clear, it has been devastating for the economies of these Gulf countries, there also was

broader concern potentially going into those U.S.-Iran talks in Islamabad, that there could be some kind of an agreement struck that would leave Iran

in control or even partial control of the Strait of Hormuz, which for countries like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar, Kuwait is really a red line.

So, at the same time, nobody here wants to see this escalate any further at all. And they are bracing themselves for any possible retaliation from

Iran. I should say. We haven't seen anything like that so far. Although there was a report from the government of Bahrain that they had intercepted

seven drones over the course of yesterday. But for the most part, the ceasefire is holding. And there's just a broader awareness that potential

targets, should Iran decide it does want to retaliate.

[15:05:05]

And it has issued warnings saying that if its ports are threatened, that all ports in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman would also be

threatened.

So, certainly, bracing themselves for a possible strike on infrastructure on ports. Crucially, perhaps on some of the pipelines, one in Saudi Arabia,

one in the UAE, that circumvent the Strait of Hormuz and still allow Saudi and the UAE to export over six million barrels of crude oil a day. Another

place that everyone is watching very closely is the Red Sea and the chokepoint of Bab-el-Mandeb. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that

Iran could try to activate the Houthis and get them involved, although they have been very quiet, relatively speaking, throughout the course of this

conflict so far.

So, everybody here watching and waiting closely. And while there is broad support for this counter blockade from the U.S., there are also real

concerns about future escalation, Max.

FOSTER: Okay, Clarissa in Saudi, thank you so much for that.

Well, President Trump is doubling down on his criticism of Pope Leo as well. Leo XIV, the pope, has been increasingly vocal against the war in

Iran and has been urging peace and mediation.

However, President Trump says the pope is bad on foreign policy and weak on crime. He adds the pope is mistaken about the situation in Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't, because Pope Leo said things that are wrong. He was very much against what I'm doing

with regard to Iran. And you cannot have a nuclear Iran. Pope Leo would not be happy with the end result.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Pope Leo was asked about President Trump's comments as he traveled to Africa. The pope says he will not back down from his criticism

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO XIV, CATHOLIC CHURCH: I have no fear, neither the Trump administration nor speaking out loudly about the message of the gospel, and

that's what I believe. I am called to know what the church is called to do. We're not politicians. We're not looking to make foreign policies -- policy

with the same perspective that he might understand. But I do believe that the message of the gospel, blessed are the peacemakers, is the message that

the world needs to hear today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Kristen Holmes joins us now from Washington.

I mean, an extraordinary war of words, isn't it? And this cartoon we should probably talk about.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. I mean, that's right, Max. And I don't know if we have a copy of it because we'd have to

put it up from here. President Trump deleted it. This was this controversial post that even some of his staunchest allies were calling on

him to take down, saying it was blasphemous, saying that he it was idolization of himself and it was President Trump kind of depicting himself

in this meme as a Christ-like figure.

Now, President Trump was asked about this and specifically the blowback, saying that he thought it was an image of him being portrayed as a doctor

and helping people. Obviously, there were a number of reasons that if you look at this image, we believed it was a Christ-like figure, namely the

healing hands that had some kind of mystical divine power coming out of them. Also, the demon-like figures that were floating above in the

background.

And then of course, just the context, the timing it coming at a time in which President Trump has been taking on Pope Leo almost, you know, back

and forth and not stopping. Just moments ago, President Trump and I think he played some of this, was asked if he would apologize to Leo. And he

said, no, that he wouldn't. But this was really the quickness of this post coming down, goes to show you that people were certainly asking him

directly and calling the White House and posting on social media that this was an inappropriate image to post.

Remember, President Trump is usually someone who doubles down when he is cornered on something, saying that it's not his fault. He actually admitted

to posting this and again said that it was because he thought it showed him as a doctor, but clearly was not as committed to that as listening to the

people around him who did not like that image being posted.

FOSTER: The fact that it was taken down is an admission, as you say. So, he feels that it was misinterpreted, but also that he misinterpreted it

effectively. But just explain how important the base is he might have offended here.

HOLMES: Well, we saw some people who had actually helped campaign for him, some conservative activists saying that this was ridiculous. They couldn't

believe that he posted this, that they like President Trump, but this was a bridge too far. And they were very, uh, highly recognized names who have

been supporters of President Trump.

The backlash is huge here. I mean, one of the things, if you look at just the breakdown of people who voted for President Trump, he has a majority of

voters coming from the Christian faith. So, this idea that he would be then portraying himself as Christ and hearing people push back on that, and that

also doesn't even take into account what we've been seeing by Catholics who are pushing back on him for his attacks on the pope.

[15:10:11]

It's generally seen as a place that you don't go, no matter what position you are in attacking the pope. But this would be a huge fracture for him.

And we should note, the last time we saw him delete a controversial video, was that racist video that had Barack and Michelle Obama in it, and he had

been getting calls for hours and hours to take that down before he finally did.

This was a much quicker deletion of that post. Still several hours, but nothing like what we saw before. And that is likely because of the blowback

he was getting from people in his own party. People who really do usually support him.

FOSTER: Okay, Kristen, thank you for joining us from the White House.

Now, Israeli and Lebanese diplomats are set to meet in Washington tomorrow for talks on ending their conflict. Israel continues to strike southern

Lebanon as it tries to drive out Iranian-backed Hezbollah. Lebanese authorities say more than 2,000 people have been killed since the start of

this latest conflict. On Sunday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made a rare trip to Lebanon. He says that any peace agreement will require

disarming Hezbollah.

Meanwhile, the E.U. commission president says there will be no stability in the Middle East if Israeli strikes in Lebanon continue.

Jeremy Diamond is covering this part of the story for us.

Jeremy, it's a complex matter, but the Europe's made its view very clear on this. Lebanon should be included in this wider ceasefire agreement,

effectively.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. There have been a number of parties beyond the Iranians who have called for a ceasefire in

Lebanon. And yet the Israelis have continuously refused that position. The Israeli prime minister has made quite a point of publicly stating that

there is no ceasefire in Lebanon right now. And indeed, what we've seen in recent days has been continued airstrikes in southern Lebanon, continued

ground fighting between Israeli forces and Hamas militants in the south of the country.

But there is still, it seems, some level of scaling back of the strikes that Israel is carrying out, both in terms of the tempo of the strikes, but

in particular as it relates to the targets. And that's because we haven't seen any strikes in the Lebanese capital of Beirut since Thursday. So,

several days without any strikes in the Lebanese capital, which is quite unusual for what we've seen over the course of the last month or so of this

conflict.

And that is reflective of the fact that Israel has come under significant pressure, both from the international community, but particularly from the

United States, to scale back some of its strikes in Lebanon at a minimum, even if it doesn't agree to a ceasefire altogether. And to enter these

direct negotiations with Lebanon.

And the reason why that pressure has come is because of the concern from the United States that it could upend this broader ceasefire agreement with

Iran, and also now Lebanese officials saying that they would not negotiate with Israel under fire. Now, we expect that the next round of negotiations

between Israel and Lebanon will take place tomorrow. The key item on the agenda from the Lebanese point of view is to try and obtain a ceasefire out

of that meeting.

So, they are still pushing for a ceasefire agreement before they reach broader, any broader negotiations on the disarmament of Hezbollah and the

potential of establishing peaceful relations between Israel and Lebanon. The Israelis don't seem to be shifting on that point of view, though, for

now. So, we'll see how tomorrow unfolds -- Max.

FOSTER: Jeremy Diamond in Tel Aviv, thank you.

Now, Hungary's incoming prime minister is promising closer ties with the European Union. This after a landslide victory for his center right party.

Peter Magyar says voters have liberated Hungary from the 16-year regime of Viktor Orban. Sunday's election was a stunning rejection of Orban, who's

described as far right anti-E.U., pro-Trump, pro-Kremlin.

Melissa Bell joins us from Budapest.

I mean, I have to say, Melissa, you can almost feel the sigh of relief from European capitals today.

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. They were very quick and very enthusiastic in their response to last night's

result, a result that really came remarkably early, actually, with a remarkably gracious speech from Viktor Orban. Such was the size of this

landslide victory that Peter Magyar is described as one of and for the people, and really gone out of his way to give us a bigger insight today

into what he has planned.

This has been such a revolution almost overnight that has happened, and it's what you felt from the people on the streets yesterday as they spoke

to their disbelief that they'd managed to end these 16 years of rule of Viktor Orban, but also because this sort of party that now holds two thirds

majority, the supermajority came from nowhere.

During a more than two-hour press conference we heard a lot more from Peter Magyar about how he'd done it, starting in a van two years ago, going

around 700 towns, villages, settlements across Hungary, sometimes six or seven times in a row to go and speak to the people.

[15:15:05]

His plan now to represent them, transforming the relationship of Hungary with Brussels, but also with superpowers like the United States and Russia.

Now, I'd just like to play you a little clip from that presser, which is really revealing about the kind of leader he plans to be. There will no

longer be the kind of ideological ties, he says, that used to bind Budapest to Washington or Budapest to Moscow.

This is what he had to say, for instance, on energy supplies

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER MAGYAR, HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER-ELECT (through translator): We are unable to change geography. Russia will be here. Hungary will be here soon,

but we will try to diversify. That doesn't mean that we want to detach ourselves. We want to buy oil at low prices and securely. But the Druzhba,

the friendship oil pipeline, the -- and what's happened there, we can see that it threatens Hungary's energy supply or what's happening in Tehran, in

Iran, that threatens our energy supply.

So, it is not -- it is in the interest of Hungary to diversify our energy mix and energy supply as much as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: Pragmatism, he explained, will be at the heart of his ties with Moscow and with Washington. No longer ideology. And that, he says, will

mean the best people, the best interests of the people of Hungary are respected.

As when it comes to the MAGA ties that used to bind the leaders in Washington, so much of the administration to Viktor Orban. He said he had

not yet received any congratulations from some of the senior American officials who came out here. Remember to campaign for Viktor Orban, but he

was looking forward to getting to know them -- Max.

FOSTER: Okay. Melissa in Budapest, thank you so much.

Now, coming up, scandal rocks the Democratic Party in the U.S. And it could end the career of a congressman. Details on Eric Swalwell's future, coming

up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:06]

FOSTER: The electoral defeat of Viktor Orban has raised hopes in Ukraine. The pro-Russian leader often attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr

Zelenskyy and blocked more than $100 billion in E.U. support.

On the front lines, Russia and Ukraine accused each other of violating an Orthodox Easter ceasefire, as both sides reported continued hostilities

despite a declared 32-hour truce that ran from Saturday afternoon until midnight on Sunday.

At this hour, the polls in Lima are open for a second day. This after logistical problems in the capital disrupted Peru's general election.

Voting hours have been extended for the thousands, unable to cast ballots on Sunday, a June 7th runoff looks likely. Since none of the 35 candidates

vying for the presidency got anywhere near the 50 percent required to win outright, the winner will be Peru's ninth president in less than a decade.

The global sustainability network is marking a decade in its quest to abolish modern slavery in all its forms. Leaders from the worlds of

politics, business, religion and media and more make up the ranks of the nonprofit organization, which recently came together to celebrate the

milestone.

As we prepare to mark My Freedom Day this week on CNN, Becky Anderson takes an in-depth look at the group's work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Today, leaders of the world's religions have come together to form a historic initiative

to eradicate modern slavery.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): History was made back more than a decade ago, when leaders from many of the world's major religions

gathered at the Vatican to ask a single, urgent question how do we end modern slavery?

POPE FRANCIS, CATHOLIC CHURCH (through translator): Each human being, a man, a woman, a child is an image of God, and each human being is a free

person who has the right to exist in equality and fraternity.

AMANPOUR: The Global Freedom Network welcomes your support and practical action to eradicate modern slavery once and for all.

ANDERSON (voice-over): The meeting, moderated by CNN's Christiane Amanpour, sparked an idea in Pakistani born businessman Raza Jafar.

RAZA JAFAR, FOUNDER, GLOBAL SUSTAINABILITY (through translator): It's a very dark and difficult subject to deal with, but when you bring people

together, it gives all of us strength to have a much bigger impact.

ANDERSON (voice-over): The Global Sustainability Network, or GSN, was designed to be an answer. It's an international alliance of modern

abolitionists working across all borders and belief systems. Members from all over the world gathered recently in Abu Dhabi to celebrate GSN's 10th

anniversary.

SHEIKH NAHYAN BIN MUBARAK, UAE'S MINISTER OF TOLERANCE AND COEXISTENCE: It's a great pleasure to be with you this evening as we mark this important

anniversary of the global sustainability network.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Among the dignitaries in attendance, the UAE's minister of tolerance and coexistence, Sheikh Nahyan bin Mubarak and

Sudan's former prime minister, Dr. Abdalla Hamdock.

ABDALLA HAMDOCK, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF SUDAN: Modern slavery is a stigma on humanity. We thought with all the struggle that went into ending

slavery in the world, that we saw the end of it, but it is still there.

ANDERSON (voice-over): The evening involved a call to action, encouraging everyone to wear a white freedom pom-pom, a small adornment designed to

start a larger conversation about modern slavery.

MAREN KRASS, FOUNDER, HEARTS ON A MISSION: We're working with victims of slavery, and we want to give them -- we want -- we don't want to see them

as victims. We want to make them to heroes.

ANDERSON (voice-over): It's empathy that defines the network's efforts and inspires optimism for the future.

DR. CATHERINE O'FARRELL, FOUNDER & CEO, INCLUZAN: Young people are going to be the leaders and decision makers of tomorrow, so the more informed,

empowered and educated they are, the better our leadership will be in the future.

ANDERSON (voice-over): And sometimes the most powerful voices are also the youngest.

(SINGING)

ANDERSON (voice-over): Twelve-year-old True El-Deeb wrote this song for those who don't yet have a voice.

TRUE EL-DEEB, SINGER: Everyone can serve a purpose here, no matter how old they are. Even I like -- I'm very honored to be helping and contributing,

and I know anyone out there in the world can help.

JAFAR: We all can do a lot every day. We can express and join the Freedom Movement by simply having our voice, by wearing our voice.

So, my message to everybody is wear your voice. Let everybody hear your fight for freedom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: All right. Coming up on Wednesday, join CNN for My Freedom Day, a student driven worldwide event to raise awareness of modern day slavery.

Follow the #MyFreedomDay on social media and check out CNN.com/freedomday, too.

Well, still to come, supply and demand in action as the U.S. begins a blockade in the Persian Gulf.

[15:25:04]

Oil prices pushing higher.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Back to our top story, U.S. President Trump saying a naval blockade of Iranian ports is now underway. He's warning any Iranian ship

that goes near the blockade will be immediately eliminated. Iran says its forces are on maximum combat alert, condemning what it calls the

provocative U.S. action. Mr. Trump says other countries will assist with the blockade, but declined to name them.

The U.S. imposed the blockade after talks with Iran broke down over the weekend in Pakistan, but a short time ago, President Trump said Iranian

officials called this morning and want to make a deal. A source tells CNN the White House is internally discussing the possibility of another in-

person meeting with Iran. Mr. Trump insists the U.S. will not budge on at least one key demand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They will never have a nuclear weapon. Iran -- you're marking it down -- Iran will not have a nuclear weapon. And we agreed to a lot of

things, but they didn't agree to that. And I think they will agree to it. I'm almost sure of it. In fact, I am sure of it. If they don't agree,

there's no deal. There'll never be a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: I'm joined now by Nic Robertson in Islamabad.

So where is the common ground which might bring about more talks, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, President Trump trying to achieve that through his blockade. The Iranians are trying to

sort of not only say that force will be met by force, that their military is ready, that they have the potential to escalate. But they're also trying

to internationalize what President Trump is doing by saying it was an illegal war of choice.

[15:30:00]

And now it's -- it's -- it's a choice of a blockade, essentially, that's going to hurt the whole world as well as the United States.

So, I think there's an effort here by Iran to try to sort of play on that question that so many people in this region and elsewhere have asked, how

does a blockade on a blockade improve the flow of oil? And the president himself has said, look, maybe the price of oil isn't going to come down for

some time.

So that's sort of where the words are on the blockade at the moment. And I think diplomatically, the interlocutors here, Pakistan, after the talks

broke down in the early hours of Sunday morning, just as the sun was coming up here, they've been trying to be positive about the situation and said

that they will continue to engage, both sides don't want to go back to war.

We've heard similar language coming from the Iranians today. The Iranian president saying, you know, we don't need to have this blockade. We can

still make a deal. But there's a real sense that from the interlocutors here who were here on the ground, the Iranian foreign minister who said,

you know, accused the United States of shifting the goalposts, the lead negotiator on the Iranian side, the speaker of the parliament, saying we

made many concessions. It's up to the United States to trust us.

So there's -- the narrative from the Iranian side is we did a lot. We bent over. But every time we gave ground and agreed to something, the U.S. came

back and shifted the goalposts to something more extreme. That's what the Iranian foreign minister is saying.

So the scope there to make a deal still exists. Is the deadline, the end of the ceasefire, which is now about eight days away? That remains unclear.

And of course, while you have the blockade and the talk about potential escalation, that could derail any amount of diplomacy.

But the scope for diplomacy remains there. The Iranians, from their perspective, appear ready for it. The interlocutors here in Pakistan say

they are ready for it. How and where it may take shape and when, that really isn't clear at the moment, Max.

FOSTER: No.

Nic, thank you so much for that update.

Well, as the U.S. Navy begins its blockade of the Strait of Hormuz, some key details on what that means. The law of naval warfare defines a blockade

as the capture or destruction of enemy property found at sea. It prevents ship traffic -- ship traffic leaving specific coastal areas. A blockade

must be declared and notified, meaning warnings must go out to ships that it might impact and must be impartial, affecting vessels of any nation.

We don't know is will Donald Trump's blockade of the Hormuz strait actually work?

Joining us now, naval warfare journalist Chris Cavas.

Thanks for joining us, Chris. What do you think?

CHRIS CAVAS, CO-HOST, CAVASSHIPS PODCAST: Well, we'll wait and see. You know, this sort of operation hasn't been done for quite some time, many,

many years. So, you know, the performance of the U.S. Navy, everybody's going to be judging that right from the beginning. We'll see how they do.

But they do train for this scenario. This is not -- this is not an unforeseen development. All of the, frankly, all of the permutations that

could pop up around the Persian Gulf have been gamed out and trained for, for many, many, many years. This is one of those scenarios. So, now,

that'll be for real.

FOSTER: They gamed it out, and they would have gamed out the resources involved. I mean, just give us a sense of what an epic job this will be for

the navy.

CAVAS: Epic? Well, we'll have to see what the scale of it all is. I mean, right now, you know, the volume of traffic going in and out of the Strait

of Hormuz is incredibly low. Very, very, very low, very -- single digit ships. It's a trickle, if anything. And most of those, the last few, last

week or so have been ships that have been approved by the Iranian authorities.

So, the Americans have not been really involved in this. They will be now. We hear that most of the enforcement of the passageway will be taking place

not inside the Persian Gulf itself, but rather outside in the Gulf of Oman, the GOO, as people call it out there. That's where that's a safer area.

It's much wider seas out there.

And that enforcement will be going on out there. The nature of it all, the remains to be seen. And the U.S. has put out notices to mariners now that

the entire coast of Iran is being blockaded, what they're going for are cargos that are going in and out of Iran.

It's not the ships themselves. It's not the flag for the ship or the ownership. It's the cargo. Who owns that cargo? Where's it going? So that's

what they're blockading specifically.

Then, we expect to see things like boarding teams are ready to go. Navy practices, things are called VBSS, visit board search and seizure.

[15:35:06]

That is something that sailors practice routinely. The Coast Guard practices it routinely and the Marines practice it routinely. Marines are

in the area. There are a number of marines from the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit based in Japan. They arrived first aboard the assault

ship Tripoli.

Tripoli is a very large 45,000-ton assault ship. Doesn't carry a lot of watercraft, not optimized for that, doesn't have a well deck. It is

optimized for aviation as a lot of helicopters. And you can expect to see that sort of operation being carried out now routinely. It's the way you

inspect things. But --

FOSTER: Yeah.

CAVAS: I expect that that to be happening. We're sort of everything's wait and see at this point. So right now, I think that we'll see.

FOSTER: On a very basic level, a helicopter would come from that ship you described land on the vessel. And what happens there?

CAVAS: I'm sorry, what, what?

FOSTER: What happens there? What's the process? They take people into custody.

CAVAS: Yeah.

FOSTER: Do they -- do they take the ship? I mean, what happens?

CAVAS: No, no, no, no, not necessarily. They'll inspect the ship. They'll check the ships papers. They'll check the documentation that the ship has

on board. All ships are ready for this, nominally. At least the legal ones are ready for this.

They'll take a look at the cargo. They'll -- they will have been tracking this ahead of time. There's a great deal of worldwide intelligence about

all of these ships and the cargos that they're carrying, where those cargos came from, where they're headed.

By the way, this isn't just oil, either. They're quite, quite a number of container ships. There are quite a lot of bulk ships which carry things

like fertilizer, which is another major element that is being bottled up as traffic is not flowing through the strait.

So, it's not just oil, but oil will be certainly the focus of a lot of things to begin with. But they'll -- they'll look at things. Now, what

happens when they -- when they find a ship violates their blockade? What do they do with it? That's a question we don't know yet.

There are multiple responses you could take to this. Anything from complete seizure. Another, you know, get rid of the crew, take the crew away from

operating the ship, put another crew in place of the ship and operate it. Or many things in direct the ship to follow me or proceed to a certain port

or proceed to an Anchorage for further inspection.

There's a -- there's a lot of stages that are possible here. We'll have to wait and see how, how vigorously this is applied.

FOSTER: Yeah. It's going to be fascinating for you to watch, isn't it? As you say, it hasn't been done like this before.

Chris, thank you so much for joining us.

Now, it is the final moments of trade on Wall Street. Stocks are trying to finish in the black. There were steep losses at the very open. But the Dow

has managed to claw things back.

This is our Business Breakout.

Donald Trump's attempt to sue "The Wall Street Journal" for defamation has been dismissed by a federal judge. The U.S. President has sued the paper

over its reporting on a lewd birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein that bore Mr. Trump's name. A judge said the president had failed to allege that the

journal acted with actual malice when it reported the story. Mr. Trump has two weeks to appeal.

Top movie stars and film directors have signed an open letter opposing Paramount's impending takeover of Warner Bros. Discovery, the parent

company of CNN. Amongst those signing the letter, actors Bryan Cranston and Glenn Close, plus directors JJ Abrams and Denis Villeneuve. They argue the

merger would threaten jobs and reduce competition.

Ireland's transport minister says a protest campaign is over after demonstrations against high fuel prices caused some gas stations to run

dry. Farmers and truckers staged blockades in protest of rising costs. The Irish transport minister told CNN last hour that the government would take

more measures to mitigate against higher costs.

As we mentioned, President Trump's military blockade of the Strait of Hormuz is now in effect. This comes on top of the collapse of weekend peace

talks in Pakistan. As a result, oil prices are once again jumping above $100 a barrel, and global stock markets are having a pretty rough start to

the week.

CNN senior business reporter Hanna Zaidi joins us here in London.

Thank you for joining us.

I mean, they did go up, but not actually that much. And the stock markets up. I mean, it's baffling because this should have been the worst-case

scenario, shouldn't it?

HANNA ZIADY, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: It does feel that way. And oil prices were up a lot more sharply this morning than they were seven, eight percent

this morning. They've come down. In fact, I'm looking at my screen now. Brent crude is actually falling a little bit.

So, it is all rather confusing because nothing has changed on the ground. If anything, as you say, the situation is only getting worse and that

there's potential now for another flashpoint in this conflict. There's some questions over whether Iran will retaliate to this blockade by getting some

of its proxies, the Houthis, to block off the Red Sea, which would be really damaging for Saudi Arabia's oil exports.

[15:40:00]

And by the way, Iran has actually been exporting its own oil through the strait. So, any blockade of those exports, even though they're sanctioned,

that oil is sanctioned, much of it going to China, will just further tighten global supply. Iranian exports, about 4 percent of global supply.

If China can't buy from Iran, it'll then compete with Europe for oil exports.

So, it's a little bit puzzling. We have heard and you had Nic Robertson on not so long ago talking about talks still going on. So, there may be some

optimism --

FOSTER: Yeah, they're treading water whilst we get updates because they can't really make big decisions right now because each day is so different.

ZIADY: Exactly. And I think the one thing that's really interesting to me is that there is this discrepancy between futures contracts, which is the

prices that we are seeing on our screens. So, oil for delivery in the future. June in the case of Brent, May in the case of a U.S. oil and the

physical oil that you can buy today, and those prices are nearing record levels, there's a big difference in price between futures and physical oil,

sort of underscoring the fact that oil is not reaching the markets it needs to reach. You mentioned protests in Ireland over the weekend.

We're starting to see increasingly severe consequences for this. ACI Europe, which is an airport in Europe, warning that Europe is about three

weeks away from a jet fuel shortage if shipments through the Strait of Hormuz don't resume soon.

So, definitely, more severe consequences from this shutdown and a real desperation in the market to get -- to lay hands on physical oil.

FOSTER: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Hannah.

Still to come, President Donald Trump defending a controversial picture that he posted on social media. We'll show you that picture. What he says

it's supposed to represent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: So, we continue to follow the clash between the U.S. President Donald Trump and Pope Leo XIV. The pope has been increasingly vocal against

the war in Iran and the way the president has been handling it.

[15:45:02]

He's been urging the president and other leaders to strive for peace instead. However, President Trump calls the pope bad on foreign policy, he

doesn't understand the situation in Iran.

He says President Trump is no stranger to controversy, of course, and religion on social media. In one of his recent messages, he sparked a

backlash after posting a picture of himself as Jesus healing someone. However, the president says the picture has been misinterpreted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It wasn't a picture, it was me. I did post it and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross as a Red Cross worker there,

which we support. And, only the fake news could come up with that one. So, I just heard about it and I said, how did they come up with that? It's

supposed to be me as a doctor making people better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So, what we want to know is how will American Christians react to Donald Trump's religious roles?

Well, joining me now is Jemar Tisby and author and historian of race and religion.

Thanks for joining us, Jemar.

Just first, can we just clarify this misinterpretation that, as Donald Trump sees it, that it wasn't meant to depict Jesus? What's your view on

that? Is there any confusion for you?

JEMAR TISBY, HISTORIAN OF RACE & RELIGION: Zero confusion at all. I mean, I think the president is scrambling. How do you backtrack from something

like this? It depicts him in a white robe with a red sash. There's no modern medical professional that dresses like that. And I think he is

grasping at straws to try to make an excuse for why he would repost something like that.

FOSTER: He's depicted himself as the pope before, which alarmed a lot of people. But just explain why this is on a completely different level for

many Christians

TISBY: Yeah, look, you can call this image a lot of things heretical, blasphemous, idolatrous, what you can't call it is Christian. This is white

Christian nationalism. This is the president putting himself in the place of a religious figure, the savior Jesus Christ.

And it is also embedded with these nationalist images. American Eagles flying all around the U.S. flag in the background. And here we see in

visual form this toxic marriage between nationalism and Christianity, which we call white Christian nationalism.

FOSTER: There are some in his party that may approve of that imagery, but we obviously saw a big backlash to many in his base because he deleted it.

You would assume that he deleted it under pressure.

Just explain how maybe, you know, um, Republican MAGA base members may have been offended by this despite, you know, some of the parts of it ringing

true for them

TISBY: Absolutely. As I said, this is white Christian nationalism. It's not the Christianity of Christ, as Frederick Douglass would have put it.

But Christians aren't off the hook. Not only should they be the most upset by this perversion of their faith, they should also be the most vigorous in

pushing back against it.

And so, in this instance, it was a bridge too far, even for far right supporters of the president. I mean, when you're getting criticized by the

hosts from Fox News and writers at "The Daily Wire", you've lost the plot. These have -- there's already a strained relationship with his supporters

right now due to the war in Iran, skyrocketing gas prices, and increasingly extreme rhetoric, even for this president.

And I think back to when he said he would destroy the entire Iranian civilization. All of that is adding up, and they are getting more and more

vocal and faster to push back.

FOSTER: He's also hit back at Pope Leo today, hasn't he? Pope Leo seemed to take it in his stride, but is that a line that American presidents

shouldn't cross?

TISBY: It is absolutely a line that any political leader, let alone the president of the United States, should not cross. I mean, essentially, you

are taking the power of the United States political system. And its power as a nation and turning it toward a religious body and a religious figure

in the pope, probably the most widely known religious figure on the planet.

It's wholly inappropriate, wholly and abuse of power. And it's really actually quite inspiring to see Pope Leo standing firm on this. I mean,

he's using power the way it should be, sitting in this incredibly influential position and calling for peacemaking amid political leaders who

seem to make war on a whim.

FOSTER: Yeah. Jamal Tisby, I really appreciate you and your insights on that because it's been a huge talking point today. Thank you.

TISBY: Thank you.

FOSTER: Now this all comes as Pope Leo departs on a 10-day trip to Africa. He'll travel across the continent with stops in Algeria, Cameroon, Angola

and equatorial guinea. Africa as a continent seeing a rise in Catholicism, the Vatican says Catholics on the continent make up to -- make up 20

percent, rather of the global faithful.

Leo is the first pope to visit Algeria, where mistrust of Western culture and Christianity is high. Pope is also seeking to improve Christian-Muslim

relations.

Still to come, Rory goes back to back. Rory McIlroy wins his second green jacket at Augusta National Golf Club. But it wasn't smooth sailing. Details

ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Finally tonight, after waiting 15 years for his first green jacket, Rory McIlroy has now won golf's biggest prize back to back. Thirty-

six-year-old from Northern Ireland, clinching his second U.S. Masters in Augusta National in Georgia after a thrilling final round of golf.

CNN's Don Riddell was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DON RIDDELL, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Rory McIlroy is making his way back to Florida today, and he promised that he would be flying with a sore head

after a big night of celebration at Augusta National. On Sunday, McIlroy further cemented his legacy with his second Masters title, becoming only

the fourth player to win back to back green jackets. It was thrilling and it was dramatic.

McIlroy admits that he doesn't make it easy for himself at times during the tournament. He seemed to be running away with it. Then he was flying by the

seat of his pants, but he was able to compose himself around Amen Corner with a couple of birdies, and he needed a two stroke lead because his tee

shot on 18 was just awful.

But in the end, he got it done, beating Scottie Scheffler by a stroke, and it meant so much that he was able to do it in front of his family. His mum

and dad sacrificed everything so that he could pursue his dream, but they didn't see him do it last year and they didn't want to jinx it this time.

But he persuaded them to come and it was certainly worth their while.

RORY MCILROY, TWO-TIME MASTERS CHAMPION: When the ball trickled by and I marked it there from two inches or whatever, I just looked to the back of

the green, and I gave it one of these because I saw my mum and dad and Erica and Poppy, and I was just like, cant believe I've just done it again.

So, yeah, more, more joy.

[15:55:01]

More like, yeah, not, not as emotional, but just wow, this is, you know, it's amazing. I can't believe I did it again.

RIDDELL: Having entered the pantheon of greats by winning all four major titles for the career grand slam last year, now he joins only Jack

Nicklaus, Nick Faldo and Tiger Woods as the only men to win twice in a row at Augusta. He's got six major titles to his name. He's tied for 12th on

the all-time list, and he says he doesn't plan on stopping here. And he says, of course, that caused him so much anguish over the years, now feels

like home.

And next year, he will try to become the first player to win three in a row at Augusta. Wouldn't that be something?

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Make him Europe's number one, wouldn't it? I think.

I'm Max Foster. That is WHAT WE KNOW. Stay with CNN. I'll have more after the break.

END

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