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What We Know with Max Foster

France Rocked By Biggest Student Protests In Decades; Soon: Trump Heads To Maryland Amid Campaign Blitz; Former German Intel Chief Arrested, Suspected Of Espionage; Former U.S. Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates To Review School's Response To Gang Rape Allegations; Trump Approves Firing Squad Execution For Fort Hood Attacker. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired October 06, 2026 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:26]

MAX FOSTER, CNN HOST: Massive protests across France just months ahead of a presidential election.

This is WHAT WE KNOW.

Today is the biggest day of action so far, with thousands of protesters filling the streets of Paris, Lyon and other cities. Students, teachers,

trade unions, even parents are joining the marches now because of how desperate they have become. They are demanding more money for the national

educational system, facing teacher shortages and crumbling infrastructure.

The protests began last month in disadvantaged areas near the French capital. They've morphed into a nationwide crisis, directly challenging the

government as it deals with multiple economic headwinds. We've also seen violent clashes, with police firing tear gas at demonstrators who've set up

blockades.

Here's what one teacher told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERWAN LE CLECH, UNION REPRESENTATIVE AND TEACHER (through translator): There is a blatant lack of resources whether at the level of the buildings

that are poorly renovated or the buildings that are missing as well. We have an overflow of students for each school and therefore in each class

which makes the conditions more difficult. From the moment when too many people are put in one room it follows that it exacerbates any tensions.

There is also a lack of teachers. And the only way out of that is to have resources to build facilities and hire teachers so that we have teaching

conditions that are much more effective.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Let's go to Melissa Bell, who's in France for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): High schoolers in France angrier than ever and determined finally to be heard

after more than two weeks of snowballing protests over school conditions, wounding hundreds of policemen and women, teachers, and high schoolers in

scenes of unusual violence. Among those wounded, a teenager who lost his hand after picking up a crowd dispersal grenade and another who lost the

use of his eye.

More than 6,000 people have been taken into custody since the movement began, most of them minors, with much of the students' anger now directed

at what they describe as police repression.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (translated): You strangled me. I couldn't breathe. I'm 14 years old.

MANES NADEL, FORMER PRESIDENT, UNION SYNDICATE LYCEENNE: The strategy of the government since the beginning, without giving any answer, any

political answer, any real discussion to the social movement, they are just creating violence.

BELL (voice-over): The difference this Tuesday, public sector unions joining the students ahead of marches across the country, saying that they

are there to protect them. Lines of nurses, teachers and firemen positioned in front of the kids' barricades. And a new strategy from the police.

LAURENT NUNEZ, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): When there is a peaceful protest, the internal security forces do not intervene. To be

clear, law enforcement intervenes when there is a threat to poverty or people or damage to public spaces or the interior of establishments.

BELL (voice-over): For more than two weeks, the students have been demanding more funding, sharing the state of their classrooms on social

media no longer fit, they say, to study in.

The answer from authorities has only incensed them further.

OCTAVE MARTY, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: We are young enough to be kicked, to be gassed, but we are not old enough to be listened. So that's pretty crazy.

BELL: The problem for the government is it's in the process of trying to get closer to balancing its books for 2027 and to spend less, if only, to

calm markets that are jittery about France's financial outlook.

BELL (voice-over): And for now, there is no sign of the movement dying down, with many grown-ups here now taking the side of the kids.

Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Let's go to the U.S. now, where U.S. President Donald Trump soon heading for Maryland amid a campaign blitz, is really rallying Republican

supporters as best he can ahead of the elections. He's facing sinking approval ratings, even amongst his base, though.

But that apparently hasn't knocked his confidence, because today, Mr. Trump posted on social media, "My rallies are saving the Republican Party again."

He's also promising a, quote, "midterm surprise".

Democrats are battling to win back the House and Senate in just a few weeks' time.

Yesterday, the president stirred up outrage during a rally in Nebraska, suggesting Iran could take out two California cities. California's governor

responded by calling him deranged and dangerous.

Listen to what President Trump had to say about the war with Iran.

[15:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, keeping our country safe. They can take out a

city. Let them take -- let them take out Los Angeles. Let them take out San Diego. That's -- this is a very small price to pay, and it's going to be

over very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Kevin Liptak joins us now from Maryland.

I mean, it's obviously a contentious thing to say, but this is a very heated campaign for the president.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, it is. And I think the war in Iran and the president's defenses of the war in Iran and higher

gas prices have always been, I think, a difficulty for him on the campaign trail. You know, it's not something that he can avoid very easily. At one

point, he was trying to tell voters that prices would come down very quickly. But at this point, he has basically said that they won't be coming

down before the midterm elections, that voters can just expect those prices to remain where they are until that some of these political questions are

resolved and so that I think is reflected in what he's been saying on the campaign trail.

Now what he's going to do in Maryland in about an hour is not a political rally. It will look somewhat different from what we've seen him doing over

the last several days. This is an event that is really designed to bolster his manufacturing credentials. He's going to talk about a new investment

that the government and that a defense tech company are making in this facility, which is a former steel plant to make components for Virginia

class submarines. It's multibillion dollars.

And I think it really serves a political purpose for the president, which is to try and show voters that he is still focused on trying to bring back

manufacturing in the United States at a moment when so many voters say that they're dissatisfied with how he has handled the economy, with how he has

handled the cost of living.

Now, this morning, before he headed out here, the president was evidently focused on other things as well, because he was posting on Truth Social

about his political events and about his rallies he said that "my rallies are saving the Republican Party again".

He also said that "my rally crowds and enthusiasm are unbelievable. Nobody has ever seen anything like it. We are flipping seats all over the place,"

and then promised, as you mentioned, that midterm surprise without specifying what exactly he meant, which I all I think underscores that the

difficulties that Republicans are facing, and the problems that the president himself is imposing on the party in terms of his historic

unpopularity, the referendum that this midterm election has become on his first couple years in office, he's very aware of that.

And he's trying to push back on the idea that he has been a drag for Republicans who are kind of battling for their lives in this final month

before the midterms, Max.

FOSTER: In terms of the midterms, how is it looking? Is there tension within the Republican Party as the president does this tour? He's obviously

not on the ballot.

LIPTAK: Right. I mean, I think it's a different story for every Republican that's running in a lot of ways. And when you look at the map of where the

president is heading, I think that kind of tells you the story. It's a lot of very red states. So. to tomorrow, he will be back in Texas. He'll be in

Alabama on Saturday. He was in Ohio. He was in Nebraska last night. These are all states that he won by double digits in 2024.

And so that I think tells you two things. One is that the president is really not welcome in some of the more swing states where Republicans are

battling for their seats. So, places like Maine, where Susan Collins, the Republican senator, is facing a very close election battle. President Trump

said he would be in Maine before the midterms. I think we'll have to wait and see whether that actually comes to pass.

But it also shows you that there are some concerns about enthusiasm among Republicans and specifically among the president's base of supporters. And

that is why he's going to some of these states to try and get his most ardent backers to go out and vote. He even told them to vote by mail, even

though he has spent the last two years claiming that mail voting is rife with fraud.

And so, it is a fraught moment, I think, for Republicans. The polls clearly show a swing in the direction of Democrats, but polls, of course, are only

a snapshot of this moment in time. They're not predictive.

And so, I don't think Democrats are necessarily thinking that they have this one by any means, but clearly the momentum is very much on their side.

FOSTER: Kevin Liptak in Maryland, where the president is due very soon. Thank you for joining us.

Now, was a former German spy chief a spy himself? That is the question being asked today after August Hanning was arrested by German authorities.

The 80-year-old was Germany's top foreign intelligence official from 1998 until 2005.

Hanning is accused of treason and espionage. One of his former aides was also taken into custody. Prosecutors haven't said what nation Hanning

allegedly tried to leak the information to yet.

What we don't know is who is Germany's former spy chief accused of working with.

Joining us now are international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson, who interviewed Hamming just a few years ago.

Just before we do that, Nic, just explain how this intelligence sharing was allegedly happening.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, so the federal prosecutor's office describes it as treasonous. And this was done in this

way, that Manfred -- August Hanning, chief of staff, a man described as Manfred D., the other person who was arrested, had agreed between the pair

of them. When Hanning retired and Manfred D. continued to work for other senior intelligence officials, they agreed that documents would be passed,

political documents, intelligence documents, only for the eyes of people within Germany's active intelligence community would be passed to Hanning.

It is then that the prosecutors allege that Hanning was sharing these documents with another state, another intelligence agency. They're not

saying how they were shared. They're not saying why they were shared or to whom they were shared with.

We do understand from the federal prosecutor's office that this chain of events was set in motion by something that happened a couple of years ago.

Hanning was being investigated for being involved in a child custody case of a German businesswoman, and the children were taken from her ex-husband

in Denmark, and that triggered an investigation into Hanning. And it was during that investigation of his house then triggered what we're witnessing

today, 2,000 documents a prosecution said were handed to Hanning in the course of all the time that Manfred D. was supplying him this information.

FOSTER: An incredibly respected figure in international intelligence circles. Wasn't here, you know that better than anyone. He would have had

access to serious material. This could be seismic, couldn't it, potentially.

ROBERTSON: This is a man who would have been cooperating at the most senior level with the director of the CIA and all sorts of other

intelligence officials. When I interviewed him in 2010, interviewed him again in 2018, when I interviewed him in 2010, Osama bin Laden was still on

the loose. He'd just retired from government service.

And he was very much involved right after 9/11 when bin Laden was still in Afghanistan. In fact, he surprised me in the interview by saying, by

indicating that he actually had imagery of Osama bin Laden after 9/11, still in Afghanistan. He thought that governments hadn't moved fast enough,

quickly enough, to capture bin Laden before he escaped to Pakistan, where even in 2010, before bin Laden was found in Pakistan, he believed he was

there.

So, this is a man who was very much involved in some of the deepest secrets, and we'll remember the secrecy around investigating where Osama

bin Laden was and working with other intelligence agencies, working with the Saudis, working with European partners. So, it really will raise

concerns.

When did he start sharing information? What information was it? Does it put lives of other agents and assets in danger?

That's always a concern when somebody inside an intelligence agency shares details. But when I met him, he seemed incredibly respectful of the ethos

of the intelligence services not to share information. I really pushed him about that photograph on bin Laden, and I was not getting anywhere with it,

Max.

FOSTER: Nic Robertson, appreciate it. Thank you.

Now, amid growing anger about the handling of alleged sexual assault, Cornell University is bringing in a former Justice Department heavyweight

to run an independent investigation. Sally Yates, the former U.S. deputy attorney general, who was famously fired by Donald Trump in 2017, will lead

an external review of how Cornell has handled the reports. She previously led an investigation into sexual misconduct in women's football in the U.S.

With growing outrage and calls for accountability rising to a fever pitch, Cornell's president is acknowledging now that he understands that anger. In

the midst of that comes CNN's new reporting that there's a fever pitch. Cornell's president is acknowledging now that he understands that anger. In

the midst of that comes CNN's new reporting that the school's faculty are pushing for a no confidence vote against the administration for its

handling of the gang rape allegations.

The university professor says the resolution has the backing of more than half of the faculty's Senate's voting members. It follows large student

protests on campus with chants of "shame" and "resign" directed at school administrators.

One Cornell professor says there's little confidence in the university's current leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIA CHANG, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I can't say that I have a lot of faith. Every piece of information that gets leaked to the

press, the fact that we're finding out the same time that you all are about what's happening on this campus, about what happened in 2024, I think a lot

of us have lost faith in this institution. And as I said, trust is just completely broken.

So, you know, Governor Kathy Hochul called in the Attorney General Letitia James to investigate the university, and I think that's for good reason

because the institution has proven that it is not capable of handling this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Brynn Gingrass joins us with more details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so a number of faculty members are saying that they have lost all confidence in Cornell's

administration and their leadership, and saying that they have now formed or drafted a resolution to bring to their entire sort of Senate made-up of

faculty members in regards to having a vote of no confidence. We're told about 40 faculty members so far have signed on. In fact, some of them have

said that they've had multiple people, whether it be from alums to students to other staff members, coming to them voicing their concerns.

That full body, governing body, which is really an advisory body for Cornell University, has about 75 or so voting members, and they're going to

take up this resolution sometime next week. But again, this just shows where Cornell University is at this point as protests continue to pick up

on the campus.

As far as the university is concerned, we've also just learned that Sally Yates, former U.S. deputy attorney general serving under former President

Barack Obama, she and the law firm she works for is now hired by Cornell University to be this independent, independent investigator, independent

law firm to look into Cornell's practices.

I mean, the scope of what their investigation is going to be is quite broad, but some bullet points really are the fact of how corner of Cornell

follows its policies and procedures in the wake of, you know, a sexual assault or sexual misconduct report. Also, you know, how do they respond to

this? How does the campus police respond to such reports? How do they oversee Greek life on their campus?

So, again, just a number of questions that are going to be looked at, something that the president at this point has reassured his not only

faculty but also the campus there that he plans and promises to do. But certainly, this is going very quickly as there are more calls for some sort

of answers, which the president of the university is saying that he agrees he also wants answers at this point, not only what happened in 2024, but

reassuring that they want answers to have reforms for a better future for Cornell University.

Brynn Gingras, CNN.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, an unusual capital punishment request in the U.S. I will tell you about the type of execution President Trump has approved for

a convicted mass shooter.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:21:32]

FOSTER: President Trump has approved the U.S. Army to conduct a rare execution by firing squad. That's the punishment for this man, Nidal Hasan.

He was convicted of killing 13 people and injuring 32 others during the 2009 mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas. This will be the U.S. Army's first

death penalty sentence on an armed service member in 65 years.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth recommended the firing squad to the president, who approved it.

Joining us now, Brian Todd.

I mean, how's this viewed in the U.S., Brian?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's viewed very controversially, Max, because it's got so many fascinating components. But, I mean, it's

taken a long time to play out in the courts, and now we have some resolution, or we're getting closer to some kind of a resolution here. This

attack at Fort Hood occurred 17 years ago, and Nidal Hasan was convicted and sentenced to death in 2013. So, this has taken quite a long time for it

to play out.

As we've reported, the Pentagon has announced that Pete Hegseth, the defense secretary, recommended death by firing squad for Nidal Hasan, and

President Trump approved that sentence. This will be the first time the U.S. Army will have executed any soldier since 1961, 65 years ago. I'll get

to that case in just a moment.

Hasan was a U.S. Army major and psychiatrist who walked into a processing center at Fort Hood, Texas on November 5, 2009, and opened fire, killing 13

people, wounding 32 others before being apprehended by military police. He was convicted on 13 counts of premeditated murder, 32 counts of attempted

premeditated murder, and sentenced to death.

Hasan had been radicalized and said he was targeting soldiers who he was set to deploy to Afghanistan with in order to protect the Taliban and its

leaders from the U.S. military.

Here is part of a statement that the Pentagon issued on the sentence here: Secretary of War Pete Hegseth has recommended and President Donald J. Trump

has approved death by U.S. Army firing squad for convicted terrorist Nidal Malik Hasan. The secretary of the army will set the time and place of the

execution, judgment day for Hassan has finally come.

It is possible that Pete Hegseth will actually set that time and place for the execution. It's also possible that the Army secretary will set the time

and place.

But as we mentioned, there is some historical context here. The U.S. Army has not executed a soldier by firing squad since the end of World War II,

January of 1945. That is when Private Eddie Slovik, an Army private, was executed by firing squad for the crime of desertion. It wasn't even a

murder. He was convicted of desertion.

And General Dwight D. Eisenhower, the then Allied supreme commander, wanted to make an example of him for other soldiers who might think about

deserting, even though about 50,000 American soldiers deserted during World War II, Eddie Slovik was the only person ever executed for that alleged

offense.

Also, the last person executed by the Army for using any means was Private John Bennett. He was executed by hanging in April of 1961 for the rape and

the attempted murder of an 11-year-old Austrian girl in Austria. The girl survived, and both she and her parents actually gave statements appealing

for John Bennett's life to be spared, but President John F. Kennedy declined to do that. John Bennett was hanged in April of 1961, 65 years

ago. That's the last time that the U.S. military has executed one of its own -- Max.

[15:25:02]

FOSTER: Brian, thank you.

Coming up, there's conflict around the world, uncertainty over A.I., big trouble in the bond market, but investors seem to be struggling it all off.

Stock markets are actually sitting at record highs. We'll give you an update next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: In the final moments of trade on Wall Street, stocks are hitting record highs. That is despite ongoing issues in the bond market. Whilst the

Dow is some way off its all-time high, the S&P 500 could close at a record. That would be the 28th time it's finished at a record high this year.

This is our Business Breakout.

Donald Trump has signed an executive order aimed at bringing down diesel prices from their near record highs. Motorists will now be able to use red-

dyed diesel, which is typically used for off-road vehicles and isn't taxed. The waiver only applies through the end of the year. Diesel costs have

spiked due to the wars between the U.S. and Iran, as well as Ukraine and Russia.

This one -- was day one for Skydance, the new media giant made-up of Paramount and Warner Bros. Discovery. The merger officially closed on

Tuesday morning. The new co-chief executives told staff they wanted to build, quote, "The most technologically capable media company, making use

of artificial intelligence." Skydance is the parent company of CNN.

The Emmys are the latest award ceremony to move to streaming. Amazon Prime Video has signed an exclusive deal to broadcast the awards starting in

September next year. That means they'll no longer be shown on broadcast TV in the U.S. It comes after the Oscars signed its own streaming deal with

YouTube. And that will start in 2029.

Abu Dhabi is hosting a conference on the adoption and advancement of A.I. technology. One of the key figures at the event is the CEO of the French

A.I. company Mistral. The company is valued at more than $24 billion, which makes it Europe's most valuable A.I. company. Mistral's CEO recently spoke

to our Becky Anderson about the debate in the US over A.I. security and regulation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR MENSCH, CEO, MISTRAL AI: There's been an argument that this was completely uncontrollable and that the agents had the will of their own.

And some people even say they're conscious. But at the end of the day, this is software.

And when you have software, you can monitor what the software is doing. And if it goes and hacks your neighbor, you should be able to know it on the

second, right? And so that world debate was really triggered by a lack of proper infrastructure. to monitor agents that are effectively getting more

and more capable.

But there's nothing hard in monitoring what an agent can do as long as you spend the time to design the proper encounter. And so, this negligence has

been used as a way yet again to explain that A.I. could only be safe if it was provided by proprietary providers, centralized providers. This is

something, when we started Mistral, that we have been fighting against.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: Coming up, a firsthand account of the massive protests in France. We'll speak with a high school teacher who's been out on the streets with

those students.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: But now to our top story, the biggest student protests in France in decades. What began as a demonstration in support of striking teachers

has snowballed into a national crisis. Hundreds of schools have been forced to close, and thousands of people have been taken into police custody over

the past few weeks.

[15:35:07]

At the heart of these protests are concerns over staff shortages, crowded classrooms, and deteriorating school buildings, with students, teachers,

and parents demanding action.

We're joined now by Nikola Delphino, a French high school teacher who's been protesting with the students.

Thanks for joining us, Nikola.

Just describe what you've seen today.

NIKOLA DELPHINO, HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER: Well, so basically today, all I could see was many students from high schools, from universities, as well

as teachers. Many of them were just walking, basically protesting for better rights, I mean, for the students, for better conditions,

infrastructures. So, yeah, it was up to some point, it was a really pacifist kind of protesting.

FOSTER: Just making sure you're still with us. I think our signal's a bit patchy, but you're saying it was pacifist up to a point. Are you referring

here to some of the police response to the crowds?

DELPHINO: Yeah, basically. So the whole provinces went to a place called Nation. and where everything just kind of started shifting. So of course

there was some police abuse, like false abuse. And yeah, some, how do you call it, tear gas, some arrests. And yeah, basically that's what happened

today as well as the other days.

FOSTER: OK, Delphino, we're going to actually -- Nikola Delphino. I'm going to leave it there just because of the signal. But thank you for

bringing us that. I mean, it's extraordinary to see how these have spread, these protests, and we'll keep reporting on it. Thank you.

Now, Kenya has confirmed its first Ebola case. It's now the third country to link a case to the epidemic in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

According to Kenya's health minister, the Kenyan citizen had been living in the DRC for seven years. Over the weekend, he boarded a flight to Nairobi's

international airport and passed through health screenings there. He was later taken to Nairobi Hospital before passing away on Monday. Right now,

health authorities are working to trace passengers and crew who may have been in contact with him on that flight.

Global health organizations and the U.S. government are waiting for more information on the mystery illness that killed a woman who worked at a

Russian plague lab, the 28-year-old lab tech died last week in Siberia of pneumonia from an unknown origin. There are reports that dozens if not

hundreds of people have been quarantined. The World Health Organization says the public health risk is low, but still don't know if her death was

actually caused by the plague. U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio is pressing the Kremlin to share more details.

Russian officials say Ukraine meanwhile has launched a wave of 650 drones towards its capital overnight into this morning. One person has died and

six others have been injured across the Moscow region, according to Russian authorities that is. The attack comes after Ukraine's president said he

plans to double down on targeting oil refineries.

North Korea has been sending troops to aid Russia in the war, new intelligence says those soldiers have been given some disturbing orders, as

CNN's Will Ripley now explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): South Korean intelligence says North Korean troops have explicit orders to kill

themselves to avoid capture. They say at least one soldier even shouted "General Kim Jong Un" before pulling a grenade.

THAE YONG HO, FORMER SENIOR NORTH KOREAN DIPLOMAT: All the people in North Korea are brainwashed.

RIPLEY (voice-over): One of Pyongyang's highest profile defectors says when North Korean soldiers die fighting for Russia, their leader praises

them as heroes. Doors open for the soldier's grieving families. Brand new apartments on a special street in Pyongyang. Their children promised places

in elite revolutionary schools, a path to privileged jobs.

THAE: The social status of your family would be upgraded to a kind of elite or ruling class. Your house, your parents would be moved from

countryside, a very remote area, to the capital of North Korea, Pyongyang.

RIPLEY (voice-over): But North Korea's former deputy U.K. Ambassador Thae Yong Ho says, if a soldier is captured alive, like these two carried out of

Russia's Kursk region last year, the consequences can be reversed.

[15:40:10]

THAE: There would be a very heavy punishment. Their social status would be downgraded.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Of the thousands of North Koreans sent to fight for Russia, only two are known to have been captured alive. In Ukrainian

captivity with their identities concealed, they told CNN affiliate NBC, "I don't know if my mom is alive. I worry she could be in trouble because of

me. If I had a hand grenade, I could have killed myself and not become a POW."

Seoul's National Intelligence Service says they decided to go to South Korea, arriving by their own free will earlier this month.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: These guys are not easy to capture alive.

RIPLEY (voice-over): South Korea was shocked when Ukraine's president revealed the transfer at the U.N. Seoul wanted to keep it secret, in part

to protect the soldiers and their families. But Ukraine says there was no confidentiality agreement.

THAE: I am protected by South Korean border guards 24 hours.

RIPLEY (voice-over): Thae defected with his wife and two sons. I met the brother and sister he left behind in Pyongyang in what they called a

voluntary interview. They disowned him.

RIPLEY: In South Korea, Thae said that he did this to break the slavery chain.

"One hundred percent evil propaganda," his sister told me.

Thae feared his family was being forced to speak against him.

His brother said, "If I don't wash this sin away by myself, my sons and future generations will have to work harder to pay for this."

Now, Thae says Ukraine should target North Korean troops with leaflets and loudspeakers telling them that they don't have to die.

THAE: They are very young in early 20s. They have a very bright future.

RIPLEY (voice-over): But Ukraine says thousands more may soon be headed to battle in the name of their leader.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Still to come, a giant man with a giant brand. The brains behind Shaquille O'Neal's off-court success has a new book on how to maximize your

career. They'll both join me live after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOSTER: Truly is the end of an era. Tonight, Lionel Messi, one of the greatest footballers of all time, will play his last match for Argentina.

At 39, Messi has decided to call time on a glittering international career that has spanned more than two decades. He famously guided Argentina to

World Cup glory in 2022 whilst also winning two Copa America trophies. Messi will say farewell in a friendly against Benin tonight in Buenos

Aires.

Cecilia Dominguez takes us to where it all began, Messi's hometown of Rosario.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CECILIA DOMINGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Walking through Rosario is in many ways walking through Messi's life. You don't need to visit a museum to

learn about him. In this city, about 300 kilometers from Buenos Aires, Lionel Messi is everywhere.

Today, we're following the footsteps of the World Cup champion through the city where it all began as he prepares to take the field once again.

According to neighbors, this house no seats empty, but for years it was Lionel Messi's childhood home located in La Bajada neighborhood. It's a

place many fans still visit.

On one side of the house, a massive mural shows Messi celebrating Argentina's 2021 Copa America title. Across the street, another mural

captures what was once a dream, Messi as a World Cup champion.

Just a few blocks away is the school Messi attended as a child. Former teachers remember him as responsible, quiet, and well-liked by his

classmates. One teacher later recalled struggling to get students back into the classroom after recess. She once joked, there's no Maradona out there,

so stop playing so much soccer. Years later, everyone laughs at the story. She didn't know there was a Messi.

If Messi's story has a starting point, this may be it at Abanderado Grandoli club. He played his first organized match where he was just four

years old. The story has become part of local folklore. Player was missing and Messi's grandmother insisted that her grandson be allowed to play. The

rest is history.

If Grandoli Club was the beginning, this is where people first started to realize that Messi was different. A news old boys youth academy located at

the Malvinas Argentinas complex, Messi began standing out from an early age. These fields witness to some of his first steps as a player and the

start of a journey that would eventually take him to the very top of world soccer.

Long before the trophies, the records, and the global fame, there was a city that watched him grow up. And throughout Rosario, that memory is still

very much alive.

Cecilia Dominguez, CNN, Rosario.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: Messi has built a global following that only a few can really rival. There are big challenges for young athletes trying to forge a brand

that can stand the test of time like that.

NBA Hall of Famer Shaquille O'Neal is one of the few athletes who have built that long-running successful brand. Yes, he won four NBA

championships in one of the most dominant careers ever seen, but his impact goes past the basketball court. Shaq has made a name for himself across the

globe as a sports analyst, an investor, an actor, a music producer, and now a key member of his team, his brand manager, in fact, Leonard Armato has

just released a new book called "Maximize: Seven Keys to Unlock Greatness in You".

What we want to know is how do athletes then build themselves into a brand. Joining me now are Leonard Amato and Shaquille O'Neal.

Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate you being on the show.

And Shaq, I just wanted to come to you first, really. I mean, sports people like you, Messi, presumably go into sport because you've got complete

passion for that sport. But at what point did you realize that brand is also important, too?

SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, NBA HALL OF FAMER: When I was in college, my marketing professor politely told me that big guys didn't sell. I wanted to be the

first big guy to sell. So, when I was interviewing agents, our motto was my first agent. Every dream, every wacky story I told him, every wacky thing I

wanted to become, he believed me.

And then we met. He sent me back a pamphlet about a week later, and the name of that pamphlet was "Maximize Your Potential". You know what we did,

and you know, 1992 is, you know, athletes have followed.

[15:50:04]

I think I was one of the first athletes to own his own intellectual property. So, you know, without having someone smart around me like that, I

wouldn't even know what that term meant.

FOSTER: Leonard, it's important, isn't it? Because it's not just about making money. It's about fairness, isn't it? There will be lots of brands

coming to associate with a sports brand, someone like Shaq or other young stars. And they probably should learn to negotiate those deals so they get

a fair deal, right?

LEONARD ARMATO, BRAND MANAGER: Yeah, well, I think it's all about transforming the way that athletes are marketed. And we had a dream

together that we co-created. And we had kind of watched Michael Jordan, who was the ultimate pitchman, become very successful, getting endorsements.

And we thought, well, how can we go beyond that? How can we do something no one's ever done before? And the concept we came up with together was to

create his own intellectual property, his own logo that he owned, and then use other people's money, other brands to build value in that I.P. so that

he could do something that hadn't been done before and also maintain control over his brand and over his destiny.

And that's basically what Shaq has done his whole career, evolved, he's been ahead of the curve, he's been innovative, and he surrounded himself

with people that helped him go to the next level.

FOSTER: Yeah, I guess it's the people, right, Shaq, because you want to focus on the game. Sorry, carry on.

ARMATO: No, I just wanted to say one thing. In this book, "Maximize", is a product of our life and what we've done, what we've learned. But it doesn't

only apply to a remarkable, incredible icon like Shaq. Everyone can use it as an operating system in their own life to help them maximize their

potential.

FOSTER: Shaq, what's in the book that you wish you knew about when you were starting out?

O'NEAL: Say it again.

FOSTER: What in the book do you wish you knew about branding when you started out in your career?

O'NEAL: Well, I didn't know anything. And, you know, when I saw the term "maximize your potential" was very interesting what that meant, and the

great thing about Leonard and his teaching is he had it all laid out for me. So, I was able to, you know, get a little form of education about what

marketing was, what intellectual property is, you know, what owning an I.P. is, like, just, you know, a lot of certain things.

But, you know, what I learned from that is that you should always have somebody around you that's smarter than you are.

ARMATO: And the other thing that you've got to keep in mind --

FOSTER: Yeah.

ARMATO: Go ahead.

FOSTER: No, carry on. You were picking up on a thought.

ARMATO: Yeah, I was just going to pick up on what Shaq said is that he has been someone who was always really quick to learn and quick to adopt

things. And so, all he needed was a little either encouragement or a little kind of kernel of knowledge. And he would take that knowledge and provide

his own spin to it.

So this book is a lot of things that I taught him, but also it includes things he taught me over the years and things we learned from other great

people. So that's why it's such a great opportunity for people to incorporate into their own lives, whether you're Shaq or whether you're

just a person who has a unique value proposition that wouldn't be thought of as somebody who is an icon.

FOSTER: Yeah. Leonard Armato, Shaquille O'Neal, really appreciate you talking about this book. does look fascinating. And everyone wants to find

out how Shaq did it, of course. So really appreciate you coming on the show.

ARMATO: Thank you. You, too.

O'NEAL: Thank you.

FOSTER: Now, a Belgian scientist who discovered a way of tracking tiny particles that travel across the universe has won the Nobel Prize in

physics. Francis Halzen built a massive observatory in Antarctica to study neutrinos, which are so small that they can pass through entire planets or

stars without changing. It is rare for the Nobel Prize in Physics to be given to just one person, which reflects how important Halzen's work has

been to our understanding of the universe. He looks pretty pleased, too.

Finally tonight, book lovers worldwide are saying goodbye to a legend. Jeffrey Archer has died. He was 86. Archer sold more than 300 million

copies of his books, which were acclaimed as thrilling page turners. He was also a politician, serving as a member of the British Parliament in the

House of Lords. Archer's life was scandal plagued, including a perjury conviction and a prostitution scandal.

Queen Camilla summed him up like this: Seldom does an author get to live a life so rich, varied, and colorful as any of the characters in their books,

or with as many surprising plot twists. Jeffrey Archer was an exception to the end.

I'm Max Foster. That's WHAT WE KNOW. Do stay with CNN.

END

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