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Cohen Weighs in on Radical Muslim Cleric, CIA Appointee, Sudan Crisis

Aired August 10, 2004 - 12:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We're joined now by the former U.S. defense secretary, William Cohen, for our regular weekly discussion of events in the news. He now heads the Cohen Group, an international business consulting firm. Secretary Cohen joins us now from Washington.
Secretary Cohen, good to see you.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good to see you again.

VERJEE: Let's first start by talking about Iraq and what's going on in Najaf. If the Americans go into the shrine, they're going to have a problem. If they don't do anything, they're going to have a problem. It seems the situation's a win-win situation for al-Sadr. How do the Americans deal with that?

COHEN: I think the American forces are going to try and insist that the Iraqis play a significant role, that the Americans do not want to be in a position of going in alone, so to speak, and make this a unilateral effort on the part of the United States. That would only play into al- Sadr's hands.

And so I think, under the aegis of the prime minister working with some of the Iraqi, be it police or some perhaps special forces or such, it would give them the lead with the United States softening up al-Sadr's militia but not taking the full load and all the consequences that would go with it.

VERJEE: Al-Sadr has said, "I will defend Najaf until the last drop of my blood." Something like that really resonates with -- with the Shias in Iraq, when you bring up especially that line that is an historical line of Imam Hussein when he was fighting and died as a martyr. And it brings out a lot of symbolism in the history of the Shia tradition.

Do the Americans understand that, or are their actions really only fueling it and giving al-Sadr more leverage?

COHEN: Of course, the prime minister is a Shia, so what we have is a power struggle under way right now, with al-Sadr trying to demonstrate that he is the future leader of the country, certainly from the Shia point of view.

And so that has to be resolved if the prime minister hopes to hold on to power. However, on an interim basis, he has got to show that al-Sadr's not going to be able to dominate the region or to spread his brand of radicalism.

So it's really a showdown at OK Corral at this point. And there is not much time to resolve this. The longer this goes on, this works in favor of al-Sadr and not for Allawi. So it's important that this be resolved as quickly and swiftly as possible, understanding that there are consequences that will flow either way.

VERJEE: Porter Goss, the man that Bush wants to head the CIA, he still has to be confirmed by the Senate. What do you think will change in the CIA under Porter Goss?

COHEN: Well, first, he's likely to run into some opposition in the Senate, but I don't think the Democrats are going to be able to really wage any kind of a rejection campaign against him.

I think what they will do is raise the issue of the 9/11 Commission and put the test to Porter Goss as to whether he is willing to adopt all or most of the recommendations contained in -- in the commission's report.

That would be, I think, the tactic that they would use. But I don't think they can afford to be seen as rejecting someone who otherwise is seen as quite capable, given his background, both working at the CIA and also in the United States Congress.

VERJEE: Sudan. The international community, the U.N. has given Khartoum 30 days to -- to implement an agreement to create safe areas for refugees, to disarm the Janjaweed militia, and so forth.

Do you -- are you confident that the government of Sudan will hold true to its word and implement what it says it will?

COHEN: Well, I'm not confident at all with the -- the government of Sudan. They have wavered. They have hesitated. They have promised. They've done very little to protect the lives of the individuals involved.

Senator Bill Frist of the United States Senate indicated that he thought this was genocide. The E.U. has declined to classify it as such. But when you see the wholesale slaughter of people, the ravaging of villages, the raping of women, the pillaging taking place, it's hard to call it anything but that.

So I think the E.U., the United States, everyone should keep the pressure on the Sudanese government, because they've had a lot of words and very little action.

VERJEE: The Rwandans and the Nigerians have said, "We're going to send troops to the Darfur region." But there's a feeling that there's been a delay on the part of the United States to take a position in organizing the money and the logistics to put those troops on the ground.

The Netherlands is beginning to airlift some of the Rwandese troops in. That -- why is that delay, knowing the seriousness of the situation?

COHEN: Well, I think that Secretary Powell has certainly tried to organize immediate reaction. He has been very concerned about the situation there. The -- it's a question of money and logistics.

I think the United States certainly should be taking a lead on this. And I can't explain any further delay. There's an imperative to take action here. And if necessary, the United States should take the lead.

But we would hope that the E.U. and the United Nations would be really committed to this great humanitarian cause.

VERJEE: Former U.S. defense secretary, William Cohen, joining us in our weekly segment here on YOUR WORLD TODAY. Thank you so much.

COHEN: My pleasure. Thanks.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired August 10, 2004 - 12:43:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: We're joined now by the former U.S. defense secretary, William Cohen, for our regular weekly discussion of events in the news. He now heads the Cohen Group, an international business consulting firm. Secretary Cohen joins us now from Washington.
Secretary Cohen, good to see you.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Good to see you again.

VERJEE: Let's first start by talking about Iraq and what's going on in Najaf. If the Americans go into the shrine, they're going to have a problem. If they don't do anything, they're going to have a problem. It seems the situation's a win-win situation for al-Sadr. How do the Americans deal with that?

COHEN: I think the American forces are going to try and insist that the Iraqis play a significant role, that the Americans do not want to be in a position of going in alone, so to speak, and make this a unilateral effort on the part of the United States. That would only play into al- Sadr's hands.

And so I think, under the aegis of the prime minister working with some of the Iraqi, be it police or some perhaps special forces or such, it would give them the lead with the United States softening up al-Sadr's militia but not taking the full load and all the consequences that would go with it.

VERJEE: Al-Sadr has said, "I will defend Najaf until the last drop of my blood." Something like that really resonates with -- with the Shias in Iraq, when you bring up especially that line that is an historical line of Imam Hussein when he was fighting and died as a martyr. And it brings out a lot of symbolism in the history of the Shia tradition.

Do the Americans understand that, or are their actions really only fueling it and giving al-Sadr more leverage?

COHEN: Of course, the prime minister is a Shia, so what we have is a power struggle under way right now, with al-Sadr trying to demonstrate that he is the future leader of the country, certainly from the Shia point of view.

And so that has to be resolved if the prime minister hopes to hold on to power. However, on an interim basis, he has got to show that al-Sadr's not going to be able to dominate the region or to spread his brand of radicalism.

So it's really a showdown at OK Corral at this point. And there is not much time to resolve this. The longer this goes on, this works in favor of al-Sadr and not for Allawi. So it's important that this be resolved as quickly and swiftly as possible, understanding that there are consequences that will flow either way.

VERJEE: Porter Goss, the man that Bush wants to head the CIA, he still has to be confirmed by the Senate. What do you think will change in the CIA under Porter Goss?

COHEN: Well, first, he's likely to run into some opposition in the Senate, but I don't think the Democrats are going to be able to really wage any kind of a rejection campaign against him.

I think what they will do is raise the issue of the 9/11 Commission and put the test to Porter Goss as to whether he is willing to adopt all or most of the recommendations contained in -- in the commission's report.

That would be, I think, the tactic that they would use. But I don't think they can afford to be seen as rejecting someone who otherwise is seen as quite capable, given his background, both working at the CIA and also in the United States Congress.

VERJEE: Sudan. The international community, the U.N. has given Khartoum 30 days to -- to implement an agreement to create safe areas for refugees, to disarm the Janjaweed militia, and so forth.

Do you -- are you confident that the government of Sudan will hold true to its word and implement what it says it will?

COHEN: Well, I'm not confident at all with the -- the government of Sudan. They have wavered. They have hesitated. They have promised. They've done very little to protect the lives of the individuals involved.

Senator Bill Frist of the United States Senate indicated that he thought this was genocide. The E.U. has declined to classify it as such. But when you see the wholesale slaughter of people, the ravaging of villages, the raping of women, the pillaging taking place, it's hard to call it anything but that.

So I think the E.U., the United States, everyone should keep the pressure on the Sudanese government, because they've had a lot of words and very little action.

VERJEE: The Rwandans and the Nigerians have said, "We're going to send troops to the Darfur region." But there's a feeling that there's been a delay on the part of the United States to take a position in organizing the money and the logistics to put those troops on the ground.

The Netherlands is beginning to airlift some of the Rwandese troops in. That -- why is that delay, knowing the seriousness of the situation?

COHEN: Well, I think that Secretary Powell has certainly tried to organize immediate reaction. He has been very concerned about the situation there. The -- it's a question of money and logistics.

I think the United States certainly should be taking a lead on this. And I can't explain any further delay. There's an imperative to take action here. And if necessary, the United States should take the lead.

But we would hope that the E.U. and the United Nations would be really committed to this great humanitarian cause.

VERJEE: Former U.S. defense secretary, William Cohen, joining us in our weekly segment here on YOUR WORLD TODAY. Thank you so much.

COHEN: My pleasure. Thanks.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com