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William Cohen Weighs in on Standoff in Najaf, Swift Boat Ads
Aired August 24, 2004 - 12:40 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The standoff in Najaf, the pretrial hearings at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, U.S. politics -- all of those talking points for our regular discussion with the former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen. He now heads the Cohen Group. It's an international business consulting firm.
Secretary Cohen, good to see you.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Thank you.
VERJEE: To Iraq first. The defense minister's threatening again to storm the shrine. Sadr's aides are saying again, "We'll negotiate." We've seen this before. At what point does this sort of war of words, this brinksmanship translate into some action that changes the situation on the ground?
COHEN: Well, I think we have reached that point where diplomacy is at its last phase. For the prime minister to continue to negotiate and have the negotiations called off will only signal weakness on his part.
He has to be careful that you don't have a situation where one goes from dealing with perhaps a malcontent to becoming a martyr to turning it into a movement, and the longer this goes on, the more chance there is that other groups will see this as an inspirational fighting of David against Goliath and then stir up similar types of insurgencies.
So he has to really make a decision at this point that the negotiations should be final and over within a very short period of time.
VERJEE: The hearings at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba -- do you think it's the right way to handle these men, to try them in a military tribunal on foreign soil?
COHEN: Well, it's very controversial, and, obviously, I have not been involved in any discussions about this, but I think the burden's upon the United States to reassure the international community that this is being handled in a fair and responsible fashion.
Those who have been invited in to witness these proceedings, I think, need to be reassured, and they will have to come away from witnessing the proceedings saying that they are fair and responsible.
I think it's too early to make that judgment at this point, but anything short of that, then I think the United States will be opened up for more criticism and condemnation by various human rights groups and the international community, and I think that that's an important factor for us to always keep in mind.
VERJEE: Human rights groups are saying, look, the whole process is just illegal. These military tribunals don't follow the international standards or accepted rules of law, and they also say that, look, by denying us access to prisoners that we wanted access to is going to effect how we assess the proceedings now. How important is that? What do you think?
COHEN: Well, I think as much access as possible should be granted. I think as close as one can come to a court-martial proceeding -- this is not a court martial. This is dealing with enemy combatants. They don't have the same rights.
But, nonetheless, I think that one should try to be as flexible as possible in leaning on the side of giving access to individuals and to provide for a measure perhaps that hasn't been adopted in the past, but this is something that I'm not in a position to judge.
I just think the burden's always going to be on the United States to show that we are pursuing the prosecution of these war crimes, as such, or at least the investigation into war crimes and the enemy combatant determination, in a fair and respectful fashion.
I think that has yet to be established to the satisfaction of the international community, which, I believe, is important.
VERJEE: The Abu Ghraib prison scandal -- the U.S. media reports out today suggest that it's going to be the lower ranks that are going to face action, and the higher ranks, that the top brass are only criticized but not blamed for what happened at Abu Ghraib.
COHEN: Well, I haven't seen either report, but it seems to me from what I've heard that they will say that there was insufficient training on the part of those who were in charge of the prison. There was insufficient oversight on the part of the superior commanders and a failure of leadership that may very well...
(CROSSTALK)
VERJEE: Will anything change? Will anyone be held responsible? Will anyone be fired? Will anyone be held accountable?
COHEN: Well, that remains to be determined in terms of the strength of the report and what the recommendations are. But surely if the individuals are singled out for failing in their command responsibilities, the same consequence would flow either on their military records and their careers and, certainly, to be singled out for a criticism by very responsible commissions that carry some weight.
VERJEE: Attacking John Kerry's war record, the swift boat controversy in the United States -- a reckless, a dangerous strategy by the Republicans? It will hurt them.
COHEN: I think that in the short term, it has benefited the Bush administration, but I think that is at a turning point now that I think the public will come to see that as a negative tactic and one that is not worthy of the administration not denouncing, and so it could turn ultimately in favor of John Kerry.
So I think it would be wise for President Bush to say cease and desist. Now it may be that he has no control over that and it would continue onward, but it would seem to me it would be a good time to try to put this behind him and Senator Kerry, because the Kerry supporters will now call into question what President Bush was doing during the Vietnam years.
And I think this is really a lowering -- defining the campaign down to a level that will turn off a lot of the American public. So time for this to be put to rest, and I think that the president may be in a position to say I think it should stop, this specific ad, and campaign should stop, and then go through with it. If they don't, then, certainly, he can claim that he has tried to do so.
VERJEE: In Washington, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen.
See you next week.
COHEN: See you next week.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 24, 2004 - 12:40:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The standoff in Najaf, the pretrial hearings at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, U.S. politics -- all of those talking points for our regular discussion with the former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen. He now heads the Cohen Group. It's an international business consulting firm.
Secretary Cohen, good to see you.
WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Thank you.
VERJEE: To Iraq first. The defense minister's threatening again to storm the shrine. Sadr's aides are saying again, "We'll negotiate." We've seen this before. At what point does this sort of war of words, this brinksmanship translate into some action that changes the situation on the ground?
COHEN: Well, I think we have reached that point where diplomacy is at its last phase. For the prime minister to continue to negotiate and have the negotiations called off will only signal weakness on his part.
He has to be careful that you don't have a situation where one goes from dealing with perhaps a malcontent to becoming a martyr to turning it into a movement, and the longer this goes on, the more chance there is that other groups will see this as an inspirational fighting of David against Goliath and then stir up similar types of insurgencies.
So he has to really make a decision at this point that the negotiations should be final and over within a very short period of time.
VERJEE: The hearings at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba -- do you think it's the right way to handle these men, to try them in a military tribunal on foreign soil?
COHEN: Well, it's very controversial, and, obviously, I have not been involved in any discussions about this, but I think the burden's upon the United States to reassure the international community that this is being handled in a fair and responsible fashion.
Those who have been invited in to witness these proceedings, I think, need to be reassured, and they will have to come away from witnessing the proceedings saying that they are fair and responsible.
I think it's too early to make that judgment at this point, but anything short of that, then I think the United States will be opened up for more criticism and condemnation by various human rights groups and the international community, and I think that that's an important factor for us to always keep in mind.
VERJEE: Human rights groups are saying, look, the whole process is just illegal. These military tribunals don't follow the international standards or accepted rules of law, and they also say that, look, by denying us access to prisoners that we wanted access to is going to effect how we assess the proceedings now. How important is that? What do you think?
COHEN: Well, I think as much access as possible should be granted. I think as close as one can come to a court-martial proceeding -- this is not a court martial. This is dealing with enemy combatants. They don't have the same rights.
But, nonetheless, I think that one should try to be as flexible as possible in leaning on the side of giving access to individuals and to provide for a measure perhaps that hasn't been adopted in the past, but this is something that I'm not in a position to judge.
I just think the burden's always going to be on the United States to show that we are pursuing the prosecution of these war crimes, as such, or at least the investigation into war crimes and the enemy combatant determination, in a fair and respectful fashion.
I think that has yet to be established to the satisfaction of the international community, which, I believe, is important.
VERJEE: The Abu Ghraib prison scandal -- the U.S. media reports out today suggest that it's going to be the lower ranks that are going to face action, and the higher ranks, that the top brass are only criticized but not blamed for what happened at Abu Ghraib.
COHEN: Well, I haven't seen either report, but it seems to me from what I've heard that they will say that there was insufficient training on the part of those who were in charge of the prison. There was insufficient oversight on the part of the superior commanders and a failure of leadership that may very well...
(CROSSTALK)
VERJEE: Will anything change? Will anyone be held responsible? Will anyone be fired? Will anyone be held accountable?
COHEN: Well, that remains to be determined in terms of the strength of the report and what the recommendations are. But surely if the individuals are singled out for failing in their command responsibilities, the same consequence would flow either on their military records and their careers and, certainly, to be singled out for a criticism by very responsible commissions that carry some weight.
VERJEE: Attacking John Kerry's war record, the swift boat controversy in the United States -- a reckless, a dangerous strategy by the Republicans? It will hurt them.
COHEN: I think that in the short term, it has benefited the Bush administration, but I think that is at a turning point now that I think the public will come to see that as a negative tactic and one that is not worthy of the administration not denouncing, and so it could turn ultimately in favor of John Kerry.
So I think it would be wise for President Bush to say cease and desist. Now it may be that he has no control over that and it would continue onward, but it would seem to me it would be a good time to try to put this behind him and Senator Kerry, because the Kerry supporters will now call into question what President Bush was doing during the Vietnam years.
And I think this is really a lowering -- defining the campaign down to a level that will turn off a lot of the American public. So time for this to be put to rest, and I think that the president may be in a position to say I think it should stop, this specific ad, and campaign should stop, and then go through with it. If they don't, then, certainly, he can claim that he has tried to do so.
VERJEE: In Washington, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen.
See you next week.
COHEN: See you next week.
END
TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
