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William Cohen Weighs in on Afghan Elections, Iraq

Aired October 12, 2004 - 12:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Now to one of our regular contributors here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen.
Secretary Cohen, all the confusion over the polling, the embarrassment over a pot of ink, but overall, elections in Afghanistan fairly successful?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think they have been. To see millions of -- the people who are going to the polls without violence, the violence that was anticipated, really has to be counted as a remarkable success.

The questions about the efficacy or the legitimacy of the voting will be sorted out. But we have seen these kinds of problems, certainly, in the United States and elsewhere. But hopefully, I think the independent commission investigating it will satisfy all concerned that, overall, this has to be counted as a major success.

VERJEE: The winner is still going to face, though, the same issues in Afghanistan, dealing with a Taliban threat, with warlords and so forth. The issue of security in the country. What -- what is going to be different?

COHEN: Well, assuming that President Karzai is -- is elected, he would have a mandate to then seek to spread that democratic rule over those areas that are currently governed by the -- the warlords, the drug lords, and not to make any compromises that he might have to make or has made in the past.

And so I think giving him a mandate will be very important.

Secondly, there will have to be continued international investment to start to show the benefits of having a democratic society, a freely elected government. And people enjoying equality at the polling places, to see women voting, even though they voted separately.

To see them now voting in massive numbers has to send a signal to the rest of the country. And then, with the investment that comes in, to show the economic benefits of having such a system may over time really help bring the country under democratic rule in its entirety.

VERJEE: Afghanistan and Iraq, vastly different countries. But what, if anything, do you think could the election in Afghanistan teach us about the election that's to come in Iraq?

COHEN: Well, as you point out, they are two very different countries. There has been some attempt in the past -- I think 1965, 1968, where the Afghanistan people have tried to have open and free elections. So there's some history there. That has not been the case in Iraq.

Secondly, with respect to Iraq, you have different religious parties very much at odds with each other. And so it's going to make a much more difficult job to reconcile all of that and to provide the kind of security that will be necessary to have a legitimate vote in January.

That legitimacy has been cast into some question by people in the region, such as King Abdullah of Jordan, who has questioned whether or not you can have a viable election if, in fact, the country is not secure. So security will be very, very important in order to have a -- a turnout which would represent a participation on the part of most of the people in the country.

As far as Afghanistan, that shows that a Muslim country can, in fact, engage in democratic processes and function. And that would be an important signal to the Iraqi people, as well.

VERJEE: In Baghdad, Sadr City, the Mehdi Army is beginning to turn over weapons as part of a deal. But they still have hundreds of fighters across southern Iraq and officials in Iraq are expressing fears that, you know, these militias still could hold some sort of veto power, they say, so to speak, over those elections.

COHEN: Well, it used to be an expression in the United States about trusting but verify. I think in this particular case, we have to verify first and not trust initially. The burden has to be on Muqtada al-Sadr to, in fact, fulfill his obligations. And we've not seen full compliance in the past.

And what we need to see is the weapons being turned in that are not old and obsolete, as we've seen in the past with so many other types of these cash for weapons types of arrangements.

And much will depend upon how many are turned in, whether they are, in fact, modern weapons and whether or not...

VERJEE: Right.

COHEN: ... they're using the money for the purpose of acquiring other weapons. So much remains to be seen.

VERJEE: And one -- and one of the issues also being raised is how -- what is it going to take to replace the Sadr militia in Sadr City? You can't have a vacuum there. And the numbers of 7,000 security forces needed to fill in that vacuum.

COHEN: Well, if in fact the insurgents are willing to lay down their weapons and to become part of the, quote, political process, then the -- the police function, as such, may very well be fulfilled by the Iraqi police, even though they're smaller numbers now.

But there's no real threat to their existence, as such, then perhaps fewer numbers will be able to maintain basic security for the Iraqi people in those regions. That will allow the United States and coalition forces, along with the Iraqi forces, to go into the Sunni Triangle and other areas, which really do pose a significant challenge to them right now.

So much will depend upon the level of violence dropping in the -- Sadr City and to see whether or not the militia, in fact, is going to comply. But we'll have to wait and see. They jury's still out.

VERJEE: Former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen, thank you so much.

COHEN: Pleasure.

END

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Aired October 12, 2004 - 12:31:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Now to one of our regular contributors here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen.
Secretary Cohen, all the confusion over the polling, the embarrassment over a pot of ink, but overall, elections in Afghanistan fairly successful?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think they have been. To see millions of -- the people who are going to the polls without violence, the violence that was anticipated, really has to be counted as a remarkable success.

The questions about the efficacy or the legitimacy of the voting will be sorted out. But we have seen these kinds of problems, certainly, in the United States and elsewhere. But hopefully, I think the independent commission investigating it will satisfy all concerned that, overall, this has to be counted as a major success.

VERJEE: The winner is still going to face, though, the same issues in Afghanistan, dealing with a Taliban threat, with warlords and so forth. The issue of security in the country. What -- what is going to be different?

COHEN: Well, assuming that President Karzai is -- is elected, he would have a mandate to then seek to spread that democratic rule over those areas that are currently governed by the -- the warlords, the drug lords, and not to make any compromises that he might have to make or has made in the past.

And so I think giving him a mandate will be very important.

Secondly, there will have to be continued international investment to start to show the benefits of having a democratic society, a freely elected government. And people enjoying equality at the polling places, to see women voting, even though they voted separately.

To see them now voting in massive numbers has to send a signal to the rest of the country. And then, with the investment that comes in, to show the economic benefits of having such a system may over time really help bring the country under democratic rule in its entirety.

VERJEE: Afghanistan and Iraq, vastly different countries. But what, if anything, do you think could the election in Afghanistan teach us about the election that's to come in Iraq?

COHEN: Well, as you point out, they are two very different countries. There has been some attempt in the past -- I think 1965, 1968, where the Afghanistan people have tried to have open and free elections. So there's some history there. That has not been the case in Iraq.

Secondly, with respect to Iraq, you have different religious parties very much at odds with each other. And so it's going to make a much more difficult job to reconcile all of that and to provide the kind of security that will be necessary to have a legitimate vote in January.

That legitimacy has been cast into some question by people in the region, such as King Abdullah of Jordan, who has questioned whether or not you can have a viable election if, in fact, the country is not secure. So security will be very, very important in order to have a -- a turnout which would represent a participation on the part of most of the people in the country.

As far as Afghanistan, that shows that a Muslim country can, in fact, engage in democratic processes and function. And that would be an important signal to the Iraqi people, as well.

VERJEE: In Baghdad, Sadr City, the Mehdi Army is beginning to turn over weapons as part of a deal. But they still have hundreds of fighters across southern Iraq and officials in Iraq are expressing fears that, you know, these militias still could hold some sort of veto power, they say, so to speak, over those elections.

COHEN: Well, it used to be an expression in the United States about trusting but verify. I think in this particular case, we have to verify first and not trust initially. The burden has to be on Muqtada al-Sadr to, in fact, fulfill his obligations. And we've not seen full compliance in the past.

And what we need to see is the weapons being turned in that are not old and obsolete, as we've seen in the past with so many other types of these cash for weapons types of arrangements.

And much will depend upon how many are turned in, whether they are, in fact, modern weapons and whether or not...

VERJEE: Right.

COHEN: ... they're using the money for the purpose of acquiring other weapons. So much remains to be seen.

VERJEE: And one -- and one of the issues also being raised is how -- what is it going to take to replace the Sadr militia in Sadr City? You can't have a vacuum there. And the numbers of 7,000 security forces needed to fill in that vacuum.

COHEN: Well, if in fact the insurgents are willing to lay down their weapons and to become part of the, quote, political process, then the -- the police function, as such, may very well be fulfilled by the Iraqi police, even though they're smaller numbers now.

But there's no real threat to their existence, as such, then perhaps fewer numbers will be able to maintain basic security for the Iraqi people in those regions. That will allow the United States and coalition forces, along with the Iraqi forces, to go into the Sunni Triangle and other areas, which really do pose a significant challenge to them right now.

So much will depend upon the level of violence dropping in the -- Sadr City and to see whether or not the militia, in fact, is going to comply. But we'll have to wait and see. They jury's still out.

VERJEE: Former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen, thank you so much.

COHEN: Pleasure.

END

TO ORDER VIDEOTAPES AND TRANSCRIPTS OF CNN INTERNATIONAL PROGRAMMING, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE THE SECURE ONLINE ORDER FROM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com