Return to Transcripts main page

Your World Today

Terror Investigation; Egypt Bombings

Aired July 25, 2005 - 12:00   ET


ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Nothing can excuse or justify what they've done. And if you look at the roots of this, they are far, far deeper.


ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: British Prime Minister Tony Blair says there is no justification for terrorism as police name suspects and make more arrests in the London bombings probe.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Egyptians marching against terrorism as their government widens its probes into the Sharm el- Sheikh bombings.

VERJEE: Now that he's won the Tour de France seven times, what does the American cycling champ have in store for his retirement at the tender age of 33?

It's 5:00 p.m. in London, 7:00 p.m. in Cairo. I'm Zain Vergee.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. Welcome to our viewers throughout the world. This is CNN International.

Terror investigations are moving at lightning speed in both Britain and in Egypt. London police have put names to the faces of some of the suspected bomber in last week's attack.

CLANCY: And Egyptian officials are on the hunt for those responsible for that attack that killed more than 80 people.

VERJEE: London police have arrested two more people in connection to the July 21 attempted bombings on the transit system.

CLANCY: London investigators also looking into a whitewater rafting center where two of the July 7 bombers were photographed on an expedition.

VERJEE: And Egyptian officials are searching for several Pakistanis in connection to the bombing of the resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh.

CLANCY: Now, we have two reporters covering these stories. Jonathan Mann is in London, Chris Burns in Sharm el-Sheikh. Let's begin with Jonathan Mann, the latest on the investigation at Scotland Yard.

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, the police are mounting an enormous dragnet all through this very large city and as far north, as you mentioned, as Wales. Now, on this day we've been getting new details. Most days, in fact, virtually every hour, we have been given word about two new arrests. Our attention is being drawn to two photographs and to five plastic containers, odd as that may sound.

Let me ask you -- tell you, first of all, about a request that's being made by the police, once again asking for the public's help in identifying two of the four suspects who are being sought in connection with the failed bombings on Thursday. For the first time, police have publicly named and identified those men, and they've released photographs.

The first of them is 27-year-old Muktar Said Ibrahim, also known, they say, as Muktar Mohammed Said, the man who police say tried to bomb the bus last Thursday. The second man whose photograph they are drawing the public's attention to is named Yasin Hassan Omar, said to be 24, one of the men who tried, it is said, to set off a bomb in the subway.

Police did not release more information about the two other men they are looking for, but all four are still said to be at large.

Now, in addition to the four unexploded bombs that they found in the public transit system, they also found a fifth device which they subsequently exploded. They said there are similarities between all of the devices. All are said to have been built in or around or involve the use of a very mundane plastic container, a large translucent container with a white cover, the kind of thing you would see in any kitchen store. And they said, in fact, that there may be 100 or so stores that sell these containers, though they are originally imported from India.

They named the containers by name and then made this appeal...


PETER CLARKE, ANTI-TERRORIST BRANCH: My appeal is to any shopkeepers or shop workers who may have sold five or more of these identical food containers in recent months, perhaps to the same customer. Do you remember selling any of these items at the same time? Do you remember selling them to men perhaps who you recognize from the pictures we have put out today?


MANN: The police have also let it be known that they've made two more arrests. These in north London, where they also carried out a raid.

Interesting because they've directed much of their search in south London and made three arrests there. Five men under arrest being interrogated now. None of them are believed to be among the four failed bomber whose are still at large. So the manhunt continues.

The low point in the manhunt, really the darkest note about the slow but steady progress the police seem to have been making, was, of course, the shooting death of an innocent and unharmed Brazilian electrician who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's still a lot of questions about why a man who really had nothing to do with this was followed so closely by police and then chased, and then ultimately shot.

It's become a diplomatic incident. The Brazilian foreign minister is meeting with the British foreign secretary on this day, and the question came up when the British prime minister was receiving his French counterpart still from a public and from media looking for answers. Here's what Tony Blair had to say.


BLAIR: We are all desperately sorry for the death of an innocent person. And I understand entirely the feelings of the young man's family. But we also have to understand the police are doing their job in very, very difficult circumstances. And I think it's important that we give them every support and that we understand that had the circumstances been different, and, for example, this had turned out to be a terrorist, and they had failed to take that action, they would have been criticized the other way.


MANN: Four would-be suicide bombers are still at large. Police believe that they may have access to an enormous quantity of explosives. And so there's been no change in policy.

The British police still have what are being called shoot to kill to protect orders. They will take one of this men down if they believe that they have found him -- Jim.

CLANCY: John Mann reporting to us there live outside Scotland Yard. Jonathan, thank you.

VERJEE: Now to our other major story, the hunt for those responsible for the devastating bombings in Sharm el-Sheikh. Egyptian police are monitoring roads leading out of the Red Sea resort as they investigate a possible Pakistani connection.

Chris Burns joins us now from Sharm el-Sheikh.

Chris, what are the authorities saying about that possible Pakistani connection, anything?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, as I stand out in front of the bombed out wreckage of the hotel, one of these sites where the bombs went off early Saturday morning, authorities are telling us that they are looking at a possible -- a possible connection with Pakistanis. What they're saying is they've been look for Pakistanis, a number of suspects, since before the bombings. And now they are circulating pictures of various suspects around the checkpoints here at Sharm el-Sheikh.

And this post-bombing investigation has turned violent as well. We have report from the police saying that there was a shootout in a town outside of Sharm el-Sheikh here in the southern Sinai Peninsula as the police was trying to come in and raid and round up suspects.

Now, they're being very, very -- very, very reticent about giving anymore details. What we're hearing from news reports here in the area is that scores of people have been rounded up in connection with these bombings and there could be -- there could be some sort of connection between local extremists and international extremists, possibly Pakistani. But this is all part of an investigation right now.

Meanwhile, authorities are desperately trying to identify all the dead, and they still haven't done it yet. The death toll stands at 84 officially, but there could be many more. Many people are laying in hospitals severely injured and could possibly die.

They're also trying to identify possibly some of the suspects among the dead. There were suicide bombers, at least two of them.

Meanwhile, the tourism business of course has taken a severe hit, and there was a march last night, and again this evening there are people outside from various restaurants and diving shops and hotels, taking to the streets against terrorism, demanding that there not be anymore attacks, demanding that in be something done to stop these attacks. This is a $6 billion industry here in Egypt, and they're afraid of losing their jobs -- Zain.

VERJEE: Chris, many people looking at what happened in Egypt might be asking themselves this: you know, we understand why attacks occur in Iraq, why they've happened in London. But why Egypt?

BURNS: Well, you know, Egypt, Hosni Mubarak, the president, has been very active as a U.S. ally in the region, helping to mediate in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He's seen as a close ally of the United States. And that is one reason.

Also, the attack itself happened on the day -- the main national holiday which marks the day back in the 1950s when there was a military coups that deposed King Farouk and brought about what has been essentially military regimes ever since then. So various points.

There are also at least two claims of responsibility, mainly attacking the Egyptians over there, links to the Americans. And also, their peace deal with the Israelis. They're threatening the Israelis who come here to the Sinai, and many do on vacation -- Zain.

VERJEE: Chris Burns reporting.

Joining us now for a closer look at the weekend bombings and their possible effect is Ahmed el-Maghrabi, Egypt's tourism minister.

Thank you so much for being with us. I'd like to ask you first about the investigation, and then we can talk about tourism.

The shootout at a town outside Sharm el-Sheikh, what can you tell us about that?

AHMED EL-MAGHRABI, EGYPTIAN TOURISM MINISTER: Well, on the security issues, Zain, I think I want to refer you to the statements made by the Egyptian Ministry of Interior. Basically, that there are certain people that have been identified. They are now being sought by the police. One of them, his name was published in the local press, and the police are pursuing him.

VERJEE: What about the several Pakistanis, the suspects that could be connected to the attacks? What can you tell us about that?

EL-MAGHRABI: Quite honestly, in the briefings we have had with our own Ministry of Interior, there has not been much talk of any Pakistanis in relation to this particular event.

VERJEE: Does the Egyptian government believe that or have any reason to believe that there could be a link between what happened at Sharm el-Sheikh and what happened in London?

EL-MAGHRABI: I think what has been declared up to now, Zain, is that there is a possible link between what had happened at Sharm el- Sheikh and what has happened earlier in Taba. Nothing has been established to tie the London events to those of Sharm el-Sheikh for the time being.

VERJEE: The investigation is in its early stages, but have the Egyptian authorities gotten any indication as to who may have been responsible for the attack at Sharm el-Sheikh?

EL-MAGHRABI: As I said earlier, Zain, certain people have been identified and are being sought by the police. They -- some of them carry the -- one of them carries the same family name to some people that were involved in the earlier Taba incidents.

VERJEE: How is the incidents that occurred in Sharm el-Sheikh going to economically impact Egypt?

EL-MAGHRABI: Well, if we -- if we take the -- the Cairo stock exchange as a general indicator in the first two days after the incident, the stock exchange in Cairo has reflected a general mood of confidence. There are buying orders coming in from the local market, from the international institutions, and the index really is reflecting a relatively confident future here. However, there is no doubt that such a major event will have an impact on Sharm el-Sheikh, which is important for Egyptian tourism as it represents about 25 percent of our tourism business, which, as you well know, is very important for Egypt.

VERJEE: What are some of the steps that you are taking, that the Egyptian government is taking to counter the inevitable cancellations, the fears, the trepidations of tourists that some of you could be as impactful as after the Luxor attacks in Egypt in '97? EL-MAGHRABI: Well, the beginning of -- or the first two days of this particular incident have no similarity whatsoever to what has happened to Egyptian tourism after the Luxor attack. This is a totally different era we're in today than where the world was in 1997. So most of our other destination in Egypt have really not shown any effect whatsoever.

Sharm el-Sheikh, as you would expect, is showing some weakness. However, there continue to be new arrivals to Sharm el-Sheikh.

Yes, the occupancy is no more 100 percent, as it was immediately before -- before this incident. However, I do expect because of the very attractive nature of Sharm el-Sheikh and the strength of that brand name in Europe that the business will return. And I think by the beginning of the -- our winter season, November 1, I think most of those things will be behind us.

VERJEE: Ahmed el-Maghrabi, Egypt's tourism minister. Thank you so much for talking to us.

There's a lot more ahead here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: That's right. After we have been looking at the situation in Britain and the situation in Egypt, we're going to look at the other place where there's really a lot of problems with car bombings in Iraq. We'll have the latest when we come back.

Stay with us.


CLANCY: Welcome back. You're watching an hour of international news here on CNN.

We're going to show you some pictures now that we're just getting in. This is videotape that came in to us from Washington.

President George W. Bush went to the Egyptian embassy in Washington, D.C., to sign a book of condolences there for the loss of 83 lives in Sharm el-Sheikh. One of the victims was a young American woman, a 27-year-old who was killed in those blasts.

The president went in there. It is not known what he wrote in the condolences book, but that may be released to us a little bit later. Just a little bit of a view of some of the most recent videotape that we've got here at CNN.

We're going to focus now on Iraq, where there has been more violence. There's also been some slight progress in the on again-off again push to draft a new constitution.

Aneesh Raman joins us now live from Baghdad -- Aneesh.


First, two suicide attacks rocking the Iraqi capital today. We began around 7:00 a.m. local, when a suicide car bomb detonated at a checkpoint outside the Al Sadir hotel. The explosion took place right near a house where most of the guards live. That incident -- you're looking at the aftermath now -- left at least 12 people dead.

Then a few hours later another suicide car bomb. This time, the target a major checkpoint by the Iraqi police commandos in western Baghdad. That left at least two of the commandos dead.

Now, this comes a day after a deadly attack in south eastern Baghdad that left at least 25 people dead. It once again raises the perennial question here, the numbingly persistent one, Jim, how can this be stopped?

We got a glimpse of some of the answers to that. Today I traveled with the Iraqi prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, as well as his national security counsel to visit three sites where's Iraqi security forces are training.

These are the best of the best that Iraq has right now, and they are the only hope really this country has to stabilizing itself. You're looking now at live fire exercises they were conducting.

This was essentially an enormous photo op for us journalists. But it did give a sense as to the progress that is being made.

It's not about numbers, we're told. They have recruitment at all-time highs. It's about the infrastructure, facilities like this, where they can get as close to real combat scenarios for these men as possible.

Now, I asked the national security adviser about any timeline for troop withdrawals. He told me he would be surprised if we didn't see a sizable withdrawal of foreign troops by mid next year, and that we could see some numbers leaving as early as the start of next year.

Now, we've heard that before. But again, Jim, all of this comes back to those men and women, the Iraqi security forces, and when they are able and equipped to really take control of this situation -- Jim.

CLANCY: The U.S. president -- Aneesh, let me ask you just a follow-up question here as we look at the situation on the ground. There are complaints from the Iraqi people themselves. When they look at these trained police saying that they are sometimes guilty of extorting people, they are sometimes guilty of abusing prisoners and even guilty of sectarian violence.

RAMAN: There are many issues that the Iraqi security forces are confronting, not the least of which is a perception of the people, who essentially -- that is their biggest one because they need to build the confidence. A number of reports of abuse by Iraqi security forces, by police. Bribery, as you say, essentially down to kidnapping people. I mean, the stories you hear, it's hard to verify any or all of them, but the stories are quite atrocious.

There's also the issue that a majority of these forces are Shia. There's Sunni recruitment that's taking place, but it adds that sectarian element that you mentioned. All of this now brewing on the streets, adding to the violence. For the Iraqi people, they're not quite sure yet where to turn -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Aneesh Raman reporting to us there live from Baghdad. Aneesh, thank you for that.

President George W. Bush, offering condolence for some of the victims of that bombing in Sharm el-Sheikh, made some comments. We want to share those with you now.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Laura and I have come to your embassy to express our heartfelt sympathies to those who lost their lives and our strong determination to stand with the government of Egypt and the people of Egypt in rejecting this kind of violence of terror. The people who struck Sharm el-Sheikh killed Muslims, innocent mothers and dads, people who are trying to make a living.

They have no heart, they have no conscience. They have no ideology. I just hope -- they have an ideology of hate.

It's my honor to speak to your president, President Mubarak, and reiterate my country's strong desire to stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Egypt and bring justice to those who kill innocent people.

So thank you for letting us come by.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Mr. Bush.

I want to thank you both.


CLANCY: Condolences there from a very determined President George W. Bush. He was at the Egyptian embassy in Washington.

Well, it is a seller's market when it's comes to the U.S. housing market.

VERJEE: Still to come, existing home sales shoot through the roof. It's a housing boom. The numbers when we return, with a financial news update from New York and London.


VERJEE: Let's check some of the stories making news now in the United States.

NASA says it's prepared to launch its first space shuttle mission since the Columbia accident, even if a troublesome technical glitch reoccurs. Discovery is due to blast off on Tuesday morning. A fuel gauge problem halted the previous countdown two weeks ago.

Officials stress that they will proceed with a liftoff only if the problem is well understood and involves the gauges in question. Anything else will result in a postponement.

It's bottled water and umbrellas to protect against the sun in the sweat-drenched American Midwest. And kids are frolicking under sprinklers where they can find them. They region's experiencing a scorching heat wave. City workers in Chicago and other cities are checking on senior citizens who are most vulnerable.

At least 14 people were hurt when a Greyhound bus went out of control and crashed on an interstate highway that goes through Baltimore, Maryland. The accident happened during a heavy rainstorm early on Monday morning. Northbound traffic was diverted to a smaller road, Authorities said none of the injuries appear to be life- threatening.

CLANCY: Well, time for a check on what is moving the markets in the United States. And for that, it's over to Kathleen Hays in New York City.


CLANCY: We're going to have a roundup of the main stories coming up in a moment.

VERJEE: And then, many questions, but British police are sticking by their shoot-to-kill policy at a very tense time.

CLANCY: And we're going to get a closer look at that policy. We'll have some questions and we'll get the public's response when we come back.

This is CNN.


CLANCY: Welcome back to an in-depth view of "Your World Today" here on CNN International. I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Here are some of the top stories we're following: 14 Iraqis have been killed in the latest suicide car bombings there. Twelve people died in an attack at a security station near a Baghdad hotel, and two hours later, a blast at a police checkpoint in West Central Baghdad killed two Iraqi commandos. Twenty-seven people were wounded in the two attacks.

CLANCY: Egyptian police are monitoring roads that lead out of the resort town of Sharm el-Sheikh. They are searching mountain villages nearby as they hunt for those behind the weekend bombings there that killed more than 80 people. They're also circulating photos of people that they want to detain for questioning, including several Pakistanis. Three bombings at that Red Sea resort killed a total of 84 people. It occurred early Saturday. More than 200 others were wounded. VERJEE: London police have identified two of the four suspects in last week's attempted bombings in the transit system. They've also confirmed two more arrests in the connection to that same attack. Police are asking for the public's help in finding anyone who purchased a specific type of plastic container that was used in all four bombs. The same container was used in an unexploded bomb found on Saturday in West London.

Robyn Curnow has more now on the intricate twists and turns of the London terror investigation.


ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LONDON (voice-over): New photographs of two of the would-be bombers: Police also naming them, Mukhtar Said Ibrahim on the top right and Yassin Omar on the bottom left.

PETER CLARKE, DEP. ASST. POLICE COMM.: I would appeal to anyone who has information about where these men currently are to immediately call 999 for an emergency, urgent police response.

CURNOW: Police revealing more about the four faulty bombs and a fifth device found discarded in West London.

CLARKE: All five of these bombs had been put inside dark-colored rucksacks or sports bags. All of them were made using the same type of plastic food storage container. They were manufactured in India and is exported through one company into this country and then sold at approximately 100 outlets across the United Kingdom.

CURNOW: Police appealing to shopkeepers whose might remember selling five of these containers.

Meanwhile, raids across the capital continue as the manhunt intensifies for four or maybe five would-be suicide bombers, three of whom began their journeys on the 79 of July at Stockwell Station, South London. The same station where police later shot and killed a man they thought was suspicious -- Jean Charles de Menezes, a Brazilian, was later found to be unconnected to the terrorist plot -- a death for which the police and prime minister have expressed regret.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We are all desperately sorry for the death of an innocent person. And I understand entirely the feelings of the young man's family. But we also have to understand the police are doing their job in very, very difficult circumstances.

CURNOW: Locals leaving messages and flowers at the scene.

(On camera) Here at Stockwell Station, the scene of the police shooting, a shrine for an innocent man. A place that's also become a symbol of the new challenges facing the London police who now concede they have to shoot to kill to protect.

Robyn Curnow, CNN, London.


CLANCY: People all across London have been reacting in different ways to the terror attacks and now the mistaken shooting of that man in the Underground. CNN's Soledad O'Brien sat down with a diverse group of young Londoners to hear their views on the recent events.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first heard it, I thought, good job. I think, shoot him, no questions asked, if he ran. I don't know, he shouldn't have run, but now after thinking about it, he probably -- it was probably not a good thing to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I totally agree with you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have fully expected them to shoot him in the leg or shoot him to knock him down, and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but he could have had a detonator and could have you know (INAUDIBLE). That's why they had to kill him straightaway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he didn't, though, is the thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but what if he did?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What if you were running to catch the train?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was rush hour. You know, like, he could have killed a lot of people, if he had had a bomb, you know. But at the end of the day, it's a 50-50 chance, isn't it?

S. O'BRIEN (on camera): Do you feel more vulnerable?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think more about everything, and you're more aware of everything around you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe some of the bombings took place in the first and second carriages. So when we get on, we don't get in the front anymore, sort of moved to the back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought it was going to be just like New York, the big thing, and that was it. I wasn't scared at all until last Thursday, and then it happened again. I was shocked that something else happened, like I just thought it was going to be sort of the one attack.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you think it is going to happen again?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's just the beginning of it. Like the first time it happened, I thought it was just the beginning of it all. But I don't know when it's going to hit next or where.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: London is a big, big target. It's the biggest city, and it's a lot closer than the States. Obviously, the States is over the Atlantic. So I don't know, I just feel as though London is a bigger, bigger target.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could be anybody. I mean, even their wives, they don't know, like, I mean, these people left little babies and stuff. And it could be anybody. It could be your neighbor, just people you think you know really well. It could just be them. I think it's just scary. You can't control it at all.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you feel safer because of all the cameras? I mean, people have made so much of the cameras around London and in the Tubes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't make me feel safer. It doesn't make me feel any different.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's people traveling with backpacks every day on there. There's just no way to protect it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've noticed the alarms on the Tubes now. I never noticed them, but I see them at the top there, and I'm ready to pounce. I've got a couple of friends who are Muslim as well, and they say it's quite weird walking around now, because they consider, understand why people are actually looking at them in that sort of way, and it's very hard sort of to get around that one really, because, I mean, there's so many Muslim people in London.

S. O'BRIEN: Are you fearful at all? I mean, you guys are all kind of a young bunch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it carries on, definitely. A couple of more weeks and some more bombings, and then a fortnight after, more. I'll definitely consider going home.


CLANCY: British police are defending their shoot-to-kill policy as the only way to stop would be suicide bombers. They insist such action is only applied when lives are believed to be at risk -- officials calling it a shoot-to-kill-in-order-to-protect policy.

Well, joining us to talk a little bit more about the controversial policy, Mike Grannatt. He's the former head of the British government's Civil Crisis Management Unit. How do you justify it? Obviously the public feels threatened by the bomber on one hand, but you've got a Muslim community that feels very threatened by the police now.

MIKE GRANNATT, FMR. UK CIVIL CRISIS MANAGER: I'm not sure how threatened by the police they feel. I think they feel worried about a lot of things, not least the attitude of everybody around them, and that's understandable. But I think most people here understand that if the police find themselves confronting somebody who with the touch of two fingers could set off a bomb and kill dozens of people, they have to do something decisive. The policy that has been described as "shoot to kill to protect" is just the same policy that's been in place for many years for the use of firearms by police here. Police here under the law can only use firearms when absolutely necessary, when there is no other way of doing something decisive to stop somebody who's about to do something deadly.

CLANCY: Is there an investigation underway into the officer that shot that man five times at point-blank range?

GRANNATT: There will be an investigation carried out internally by the Metropolitan Police. It'll be supervised by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is a statutory body, and there will, of course, be a Coroner's Inquest.

CLANCY: Are police worried that their hands are going to be tied? The prime minister has said very clearly that they need the help of the Muslim community. Are the police afraid of a backlash here?

GRANNATT: Yes, of course the police radio. They're fighting on several fronts here. One is, of course, to protect life and stop this from happening again. The second is to investigate the network behind it and shut it down if possible.

And the third, of course, is to reassure the public, and particularly the Muslim community. The police need the community, and the Muslim community in particular, to help them find these people, those who hid themselves with the community, and the community is the best way of finding them.

CLANCY: Many people have raised the specter that this is really going back to what was used against the IRA. The case had similarities to another case in Northern Ireland, where investigators followed suspected IRA members out of a known house where they were under surveillance, just as this man came out of an apartment block that was under surveillance. They followed those people and they killed all of them, and said it was wanted, and this is one of the things that people are afraid of, that it's happening in Britain again.

GRANNATT: I think the case you're referring to actually happened in Gibraltar.

CLANCY: No, it was a different case. Go ahead, though. Same thing.

GRANNATT: OK, OK, fine. It's the same thing, quite. This is a case which has been the result of guidelines drawn up under as study of every suicide bombing in the world for several years. Police here worked with police overseas and drew up guidelines to try and identify people who might be suicide bombings, and it's a very carefully controlled operation. These are not teams who are roving London, looking for people who might be suspicious. These are teams who are following intelligence leads. They look very carefully, as we now know, at the clothing people are wearing, at the context in which they find them. In this case, it was a house which was under surveillance because of evidence found in the terrorists outrages (ph). They're looking at people's behavior.

And at that point, we don't know, but somebody at some point in the senior chain of command authorized the use of deadly force if somebody has to be stopped. Now at that point it become the decision of the individual officer. That officer is liable under the law personally, and would not have fired that gun under the law unless they were sure they could do nothing else to stop them, setting off something which could have killed a lot of people.

CLANCY: Mike Grannatt, we're going to have to leave it there. I want to thank you for very much joining us here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

VERJEE: Modern warfare takes a backseat to ancient wisdom.

The U.S. Army goes low tech in one Iraqi city. We're going to find out why that has been so successful in stopping insurgent attacks.


ARRAF: Hello and welcome back. You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY, an hour of world news on CNN International.

Even soldiers equipped with the latest high-tech gear are having trouble preventing insurgent attack in Iraq.

But now, as Jane Arraf reports, U.S. troops in the ancient city of Mosul are using a defense that's almost as old as civilization itself.


JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. forces in Mosul have been battling daily attacks in Iraq's third-biggest city. For almost a year, they faced a seemingly steady flow of insurgents and weapons moving in and out. So they built a wall around Mosul.

Not quite medieval, it's an eight to ten foot wall of dirt and a trench stretching for 65 kilometers, 40 miles around the city's perimeter.

LT. COL. RICHARD SHATTO, U.S. ARMY: This is the beginning of the iron man line. From here, it wraps around counter clockwise around the city.

ARRAF: Built by army engineers from the steel towns of Indiana, it took 50-man crews working 24 hours a day. Within two weeks, they'd encircled the city.

SHATTO: We tied it into as much rough terrain as possible so that it could hinder the insurgent's ability to maneuver around it, forcing them through those traffic-controlled point so the Iraqi security can inspect them.

ARRAF: The berm is tied to rivers and mountains, designed to allow farmers access to their fields.

(on camera): It's relatively easy for people our livestock to walk across this wall of dirt. But what it's meant to do is stop vehicles potentially with weapons from driving overland, and to channel them toward checkpoints.

Until now, there haven't been enough Iraqi soldiers to man checkpoints on the 12 main roads into Mosul. Now there are.

(voice-over): The wall has cut off what military commanders say were more than 70 desert trails into the city used by insurgents and foreign fighters. They say Operation Petersburg has cut a tax to their lower level in a year.

COL. ROBERT BROWN, U.S. ARMY: Found any supplies in the no man's land between inside the city and outside the city, with our cavalry unit finding those mortar rounds, RPGs, caches of equipment that the enemy has.

ARRAF: The local government welcomes the wall. "It's the best thing we ever did," says Governor Yusef Kasmallah (ph), who's had six relatives killed by insurgents. "Before, we were a house without a fence."

In the village of Shimshai, on the southeast corner of Mosul, the berm cuts through villagers' fields. Some of the women tell us if there were insurgents, they'd fight them themselves.

But they have a more pressing problem -- they want someone to bring back their men. Fifty-eight of them were arrested and taken to a Kurdish jail five months ago, they say. They haven't heard from them since. Alhma Ahmed (ph) and her 10 children are destitute.

"Is this right? We need someone to go and appeal to, someone who will understand our problems. There's no one to listen to us. The wall may help keep insurgents out, but it can't contain all the problems of these villagers."

Jane Arraf, CNN, Mosul, Iraq.


CLANCY: Let's check some of the stories that are making news in the United States. An Indiana National Guardsman pleading guilty to negligent homicide in the death of an Iraqi policeman. The U.S. military charged him with murder after his story changed several times during the investigation.

Two state legislators in New Jersey sponsoring a measure to ban smoking while driving. It's what would be called the secondary offense, though, meaning police could only ticket a driver if he had been pulled over for another infraction.


VERJEE: Still ahead, a tribute to Lance Armstrong's illustrious cycling career.

CLANCY: An American in Paris, Lance Armstrong tasted sweet victory in his last Tour De France.

Stay with us.


VERJEE: Sunday really marked the end of an era for the sport of cycling.

CLANCY: Lance Armstrong of course winning his record seventh and final Tour De France.

Don Riddell looks now at his remarkable career.


DON RIDDELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No one feels the relief at the end of a Tour more than the riders themselves. You head from the Champs-Elysees to some well-earned parties. And nowhere will the champagne taste sweeter than at Team Discovery Channel who will celebrate the end of an era.

LANCE ARMSTRONG, CYCLIST: I couldn't have done this without an excellent team, without an excellent sponsor in the Discovery Channel. We have absolutely the best program in the world, the best trainers, the best (INAUDIBLE), the best mechanics. And I owe them everything.

JOHAN BRUNYEEL, DISCOVERY TEAM DIRECTOR: I'm completely supportive of his decision. I think it's the right decision at the right moment. And what could be more beautiful than saying good-bye on the highest level? We couldn't ask for anything more. So I'm not sad at all. I'm happy.

GEORGE HINCAPIE, DISCOVERY TEAM RIDER: I think for not only myself that have been able to ride with him, but the people who have been able to watch him race, have seen probably one of the greatest champions not only in cycling, but in the history of sport.

BRUNYEEL: We've seen one of the greatest athletes in the world during the last seven years. And the fact that he decides to stand it's time to go when he's really on the top of his game, I think it's very -- it's something very unique. And I'm happy to be part of it.

RIDDELL: Armstrong has redefined the Tour de France, utterly dominating the event since 1999. And for those that make a career of describing his exploits, there will never be another.

DAN OSIPOW, DISCOVERY TEAM SPOKESMAN: He changed the sport. He's changed the way athletes prepare for the Tour de France, for example. The training, going out to see the courses, riding the courses time and time again, knowing every inch of this race.

ALASTAIR FOTHERINGHAM, CYCLE SPORTS MAGAZINE: Very much mixed feelings because Lance Armstrong has dominated the sport for the last seven years with a crushing superiority, therefore, it's regarded as a moment -- a critical moment in the history of cycling. One era is coming to an end another one is beginning, so there's a certain amount of nostalgia, a certain amount of wistfulness, wistful regret that somebody so great is leaving the sport, but at the same time we're seeing opportunities for new names, new figures to come forward. Life goes on, as it were.

STEVE MADDEN, BICYCLING MAGAZINE: I think that 25 years from now, the guy's legacy is really going to be of what he's done for awareness of cancer and to the fighting against cancer, particularly clinical trials, getting people to participate in clinical trials for cancer drugs. Because 25 years from now, most certainly someone will have eclipsed his record in the Tour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's somebody who has taken the sport out of its normal context, put it on the map internationally. The question is, will it be comfortably there after he's gone? I don't think so.

IVAN BASSO, CYCLIST: Think I and Lance, we have a good relation in the future. And is very nice person for me.

RIDDELL: Everywhere you looked in Paris on Sunday there were little pieces of Texas.

And for the thousands of fans who came to salute Armstrong, he represents much more than just a cyclist. As a cancer survivor he's been an inspiration to millions around the world. And has raised profile of his sport immeasurably. And while it may be the end of an era, it's by no means the end of Lance Armstrong.

BRUNYEEL: We'll spend next week, the whole week together. And we'll talk about future plans. But I think he deserves to enjoy and to rest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are lots of different options. He could turn his hand towards politics. He could, as he said last night, purely become a roadie for his girlfriend and rock star partner Sheryl Crowe. He could turn into a full-time dad. He could just go home to Texas and drink a cold beer and sit on the edge of his porch looking into the sunset. We just don't know.

LINDA ARMSTRONG-KELLY, LANCE'S MOTHER: Announcing his retirement is because he wants to spend more time with his children. And I think that his priorities are completely in place.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Lance is a great champion in every single way. His story -- his personal story is so special. And the accomplishment of winning seven tours is bigger than a lot of people understand. It's really huge.

RIDDELL (on camera): Armstrong's retirement will leave quite a void in the cycling community. And there's a fair chance his achievement of seven straight wins in the Tour will never be better. His army of fans all around the world will now wonder what the next chapter in an incredible life will hold.

Don Riddell, CNN, Paris.


VERJEE: Amazing.

Well, this has been YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Zain Verjee.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. Thank you for joining us.