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Your World Today

France Riots; Summit of the Americas; South Asia Earthquake

Aired November 04, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A climate of fear. Parts of France go up in flames as frustrated immigrants take anger outside of Paris.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: An unwelcome message. A visit by U.S. President George W. Bush triggers a massive show of defiance in Argentina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are very sad. How can we celebrate Eid without my child?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: A time of joyous religious celebration now a time of deep sorrow in the Southeast Asian earthquake region.

VERJEE: It's 6:00 p.m. in Paris; 2:00 p.m. in Mar del Plata, Argentina; 12 noon in Washington.

I'm Zain Verjee.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is CNN International and YOUR WORLD TODAY.

We're going to begin our report this hour in France. That is where young, poor, rioters are engaging in yet another night of clashes and arson attacks. They say they are frustrated by high unemployment, poverty, and what they see as job discrimination.

Now, while some authorities expressed hope that things are gradually going to get calmer, hundreds of cars have been set on fire. Those belong to people who live in those neighborhoods. And the unrest now has spread to other French towns. French police have deployed an additional 2,000 police officers to crack down on the rioters.

Chris Burns is live from Paris, and he has an update for us.

Chris, give us an idea. I think most people understand where is the Eiffel Tower. How far away from that have been a lot of these suburban riots? CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, with all the traffic, it's about an hour's drive just north of Paris. And it is an area which is a complete flip side to what you think of those romantic beautiful streets, some of which are right behind me over my shoulder.

What we saw over there today, we went to where it all started, to Clichy-sous-Bois, the place where two youths of immigrant families died when they were electrocuted trying to run away from police as they hid in a power station. That kicked off rioting that has lasted more than a week.

We went to a mosque in that same neighborhood where a tear gas canister from the police during clashes with youths managed to land inside the mosque during prayers. We talked to the imam and the director of that mosque, who were both too fearful to stand out on the street for fear of getting harassed by youths even talking to the news media.

They told us that they have been trying desperately to try to keep people calm, getting the youths belonging to the mosque to talk to other youths to tell them, look, go home, don't continue with this violence. It has, they said, had an effect, a good effect, but it has not obviously stopped this.

It is has spread to other parts around other -- around northern Paris, northern Paris suburbs, as well as other parts of the country, to Dijon in the east, to Normandy, (INAUDIBLE) in the west, to the south, to the Marseilles area. It is not stopping.

There could be another night of violence tonight. It has not stopped. Police said that there was a little bit less last night, but another policeman was shot at again last night.

Police, firemen have been shot at, attacked, even journalists have been attacked. It is a very tense situation. The government trying desperately to get a handle on this -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. In trying to understand all of this, are these young people that are involved in this, are they recent immigrants, or are they young people who grew up, the descendants, the children of immigrants?

BURNS: Jim, this is something that I saw as a child when I came here to visit my grandparents 20 years ago. There were the first generation of immigrants, and they were very hardworking people. They were working in these very low paying jobs.

They had children. These children now are French citizens. They have the same expectation -- expectations as any other French youth. But they do not have the same opportunities.

They are in these very, very depressed areas that have been neglected in -- for -- in many ways by the government. The education is not the same, the job opportunities are not the same. The unemployment is over 50 percent among many of these areas with the youth, and that is the problem right now. It's a long-term question -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. The government response in all of this coming in for a lot of criticism, mostly from the people that live in those neighborhoods and have seen their automobiles, their property burned. But the government has -- they talked about a curfew. They've talked about bringing in the army.

What are they going to do?

BURNS: Well, you know, there have been meetings the last couple of days. So far, no decision on bringing the army in or a curfew, though there have been calls for that. Even by the policemen's union has been calling for the troops to come in, saying it is over the policeman's heads, it is a civil war with shots being fired at police and firemen, with the attacks on security forces.

It is -- it is something for the army. But they have not -- the government has not made that decision yet. They're apparently still hoping that community leaders, community groups can reach out and help to calm these youths. We did talk to some people today who said they're having some success, but not entirely -- Jim.

CLANCY: Chris Burns, live with us there from Paris, France.

Chris, thank you.

VERJEE: Mass demonstrations are capturing the headlines in Argentina, as well. The Summit of the Americas begins in just over two hours in Mar del Plata. And U.S. President George W. Bush isn't really getting a very warm welcome from protesters or his Venezuelan counterpart, Hugo Chavez.

Elaine Quijano is in Mar del Plata and she joins us now with more details.

Elaine, there was a press conference just a short while ago. And President Bush was asked less about his free market agenda and more about the CIA leak case.

What did he say?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're exactly right, Zain, despite traveling some 5,500 miles from Washington, D.C., to focus the spotlight on international issues, President Bush was asked three times in some way, shape or form about the lingering domestic questions of the CIA leak investigation.

Now, each time, President Bush declined to answer directly, particularly when asked about the future of his top political strategist, Karl Rove.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The investigation on Karl, as you know, is not complete. And therefore, I will not comment upon -- about him and/or the investigation. You know, I understand the anxiety and angst by the press corps to talk about this. On the other hand, it is a serious investigation. And we take it seriously. And we're cooperating to the extent that the special prosecutor wants us to cooperate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, domestic polls are showing a drop in President Bush's approval ratings on the international stage, particularly here in Latin America. The president is unpopular, as well. In fact, a live picture now showing you a sports stadium filled with thousands of demonstrators here in the town of Mar del Plata protesting President Bush's visit here.

And among those in attendance, the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, an outspoken critic of the United States. He denounced the U.S. as imperialist, in particular opposed the U.S.'s push for a free trade hemisphere.

Now, while those protests continue, we should mention President Bush was asked about Chavez and perhaps the possibility that the two may cross paths during this summit. President Bush saying only that he will be polite if that happens.

The president, meantime, is carrying on with his schedule, carrying on with his series of meetings, and really trying to emphasize the positive on the world stage. He began his day by sitting down with leaders who do agree with him on the issue of free trade, mainly leaders who have signed off on CAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement.

Now, later, we saw the president appear with the Argentine leader, Nestor Kirchner, for brief statements. But the Bush administration insisting that the U.S. is remaining focused on the economic goals of this conference, and President Bush himself saying that his goal, his job, is to set an agenda, and that he is doing just that -- Zain.

VERJEE: There are 10,000 protesters out there, as we mentioned. Does the president see any of these protesters?

QUIJANO: Well, they're actually quite a distance from where we are here. Where the summit is taking place, as you can imagine, Zain, is quite closed off.

There are security cordons, very visible security presence here even before the president arrived. I can tell you, coming in we saw police in riot gear, with shields at the ready, on our way in yesterday. And one can only imagine that's the case today.

But unlikely that President Bush himself will see any of that as far as seeing it in person, perhaps on television. But he's certainly aware those protests are taking place. And U.S officials, actually, before the president left, when asked to comment about the thousands of protesters who were expected, saying essentially that it's not uncommon when President Bush travels abroad for there to be the expectation at least of some demonstrators. But they insist that it's not affecting the president's goals, that his foreign policy agenda is continuing to be pursued -- Zain.

VERJEE: Elaine Quijano in the beautiful coastal city of Mar del Plata in Argentina.

Thank you.

That takes us to our "Question of the Day."

CLANCY: And the question is this: Would free trade help or hurt people in the Americas? E-mail us your thoughts at YWT@CNN.com.

And as always, try to keep your comments short. And do tell us your name and where you are writing from.

VERJEE: At a tent city on the outskirts of Islamabad in Pakistan, families observed the end of Ramadan by donating gifts to the earthquake survivors. Pakistan's prime minister, Shaukat Aziz, joined the gathering and called the atmosphere a time of caring and sharing. Pakistan's president, General Pervez Musharraf, had earlier asked residents to tone down their Eid observations in deference to the earthquake victims.

CLANCY: The leader of Pakistan's largest religious party telling a crowd of about a thousand in Muzaffarabad one of the main reasons for the earthquake was our wrongdoing. Hazi Hussein Ahmed (ph) also said god is testing our faith.

The grief-stricken quake survivors, for them this daily test is simply the struggle to go on with life.

Stan Grant is there. He reports for us now from Pakistan- controlled Kashmir.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Look into Muhammad Anwar's eyes. You see the confusion, the helplessness etched into so many millions of faces here. A father, a husband, and a loss to find the strength to go on.

MUHAMMAD ANWAR, QUAKE SURVIVOR (through translator): We have lost everything. We are thinking what will we do? At this moment my mind is not working.

GRANT: Muhammad's wife Zarina (ph) prepares a simple meal for her family. Not much. Some meat, some fruit. It's all they have. That, and each other.

"It's very hard to live here," she tells me. "We don't have enough food. My husband went to the relief tent for more food, and I cooked that for my family."

So much of Muhammad and Zarina's (ph) life now is about what they do not have. Before the earthquake they had three boys. Now there are two. Their 14-year-old son died, crushed when his school collapsed. For Zarina (ph), the loss is unbearable.

"I am so sad, so upset," she says, "I can't express my feelings."

Her tears say more than she can in words.

Muhammad, too, admits for a while he gave up. But there are still two boys to love and care for, and they need their father more than ever.

ANWAR: I have lost one child. But still, I have two children. I think to myself I must go to get shelter and food and where there are tents.

GRANT: He led his family here to the outskirts of the town of Bag (ph). Incredibly, they treked 45 kilometers on foot down the mountains to get here.

(on camera): Tent villages like this have popped up everywhere in the earthquake zone. It is what these people now call home. But many fear it will not be enough to survive the oncoming winter.

(voice over): Muhammad's family's tent is a makeshift one, propped up by a loose pole. It is thin and barely keeps out the cold.

"This tent is not enough for my family," Zarina (ph) says. "If we get a better tent we might survive. If we don't get it, I don't know how we can survive."

They can't build a future here. Muhammad's son Navid (ph) scoffs when even asked. "At this stage, I can't even afford to think about the future," he says. "I'm thinking only about surviving."

Across Pakistan, Muslims will be celebrating Eid, the end of the holy month of Ramadan. They will give thanks to god. But here in this tent, Muhammad Anwar, his wife and two sons can find so little to be thankful for.

ANWAR (through translator): We are very sad. How can we celebrate Eid without my child?

GRANT: Stan Grant, CNN, Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Hello. You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY here on CNN International.

CLANCY: And a footnote for our viewers in the United States who may be joining us on our simulcast. This is the program and the network that airs each day at this hour and is beamed around the world.

Welcome aboard.

VERJEE: In more than 200 countries and territories.

Israel is remembering the former prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin. Friday marks 10 years since Rabin was assassinated since he was leaving a peace rally. Rabin's family gathered for a private ceremony at his grave. State ceremonies will take place next week, including an assembly on November 12 at Rabin Square in Tel Aviv.

CLANCY: Rabin was eulogized and recognized even by his enemies as one who fought for the peace of the brave.

Guy Raz gives us a look now at Rabin's life and a legacy that everyone now says was unfulfilled.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Shalom, haver. Good-bye, friend.

GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The promise of imminent peace between Israel and Palestinians died the night of November 4, 1995. The last moments of Yitzhak Rabin's life are well known. A peace rally in Tel Aviv. A sober-minded man not known for sentiment, visibly moved by the massive show of support.

SHIMON PERES, ISRAELI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: The last day in his life was his happiest day. I never saw Yitzhak embracing -- on that terrible evening it came and embraced me -- I never saw him singing. That night he sung. I never saw him so happy.

RAZ: On November 5, Israel woke up to a new reality and created a legend overnight.

ARI SHAVIT, HA'ARETZ: The murder had turned him into a saint before he really fulfilled and implemented his vision on the ground. It's obvious, I think, that had not Rabin -- had Rabin -- if Rabin had not been murdered he would have run into a real dilemma.

RAZ: A dilemma, says writer Ari Shavit, of how far to go in the pursuit of peace.

SHAVIT: The people who try to portray Rabin as someone who became a total lefty, a total peacemaker, are totally wrong.

RAZ: Even months before his death, Rabin never specified the parameters of his peace vision.

YITZHAK RABIN, FMR. ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: There is a need to divide between the Palestinian and the Gaza Strip, and parts of the West Bank and Israel.

RAZ: Acknowledging the need to divide the land ultimately became Rabin's legacy.

(on camera): Before Rabin embraced the notion of two states, the idea was widely regarded as almost subversive among many Israelis. But today it's the most widely-accepted solution on both sides towards resolving this conflict.

(voice over): And it's what may have led to Israel's recent withdrawal from Gaza, ending its 38-year presence there.

PERES: Without the things that Yitzhak Rabin said 10 years ago, maybe Sharon wouldn't be able to do the things he does today.

RAZ: His life and legacy is now being cut into the stones that will house this museum. The Rabin Center in Tel Aviv is almost complete. It's purpose, to carry on the vision of its namesake.

DALIA RABIN, YITZHAK RABIN'S DAUGHTER: Yitzhak Rabin was us, was the better part of Israel. He represented all the nice elements of the young-born Israeli.

RAZ: Yitzhak Rabin never lived to see through his investigation, but he had begun a process that is undoubtedly irreversible.

Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: A report on what is topping the news in the United States is up next for our viewers in the U.S.

CLANCY: And the rest of us are going to get a look at what is moving the financial markets around the world.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. First a check of stories making headlines in the United States.

Texas authorities are searching for a convicted killer who escaped from the Houston county jail. The sheriff's office says Charles Victor Thompson had changed into civilian clothes and was carrying a fake I.D. badge when he escaped yesterday. Thompson was resentenced to death this week for the shooting deaths of two people.

A little more than an hour ago we watched this dramatic river rescue unfold. Authorities managed to reach the driver of an SUV stuck in the middle of the Pilchuck River in Washington State. A fire department official says the man apparently suffered a medical problem that caused him to crash into the icy river. The man is now said to be doing just fine.

At the Pentagon today, a meeting with the parents of the only U.S. soldier listed as captured in Iraq. Army Reserve Sergeant Keith "Matt" Maupin has been missing since April of last year, when insurgents ambushed his fuel truck convoy west of Baghdad.

The next week, Arab TV network Al-Jazeera aired a video of Maupin held at gunpoint. Insurgents later released a video of what they claimed was a U.S. Soldier being executed. The U.S. military says the poor quality of the tape made it inconclusive.

the man who overcame controversy to become the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations delivered a fiery response to comments made by Iran's president. John Bolton denounced this outrageous Iran president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's statement, that Israel should be wiped off the map. Iran has since tried to downplay those comments, but last night Boston told the Jewish organization the Anti-Defamation League that the comments portray a larger, more sinister way of thinking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: And if anybody had any doubt what Iranian intentions were, their newly-elected president this past weekend said that Israel should be wiped off the map. And we have called that a threat of a second Holocaust, and it's a very serious threat. So that's why we put the priority that we do for the sake of our friends and allies and for our own sake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Ahmadinejad's comment drew immediate condemnation from around the world, including from the U.N. Security Council.

Republican Senator John McCain says the bitter partisanship that exists in Washington makes it difficult for the parties to work together. And McCain told CNN's Larry King the case against Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, has become a major distraction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": As a Republican, are you, for want of a better word, embarrassed by the Scooter Libby indictment?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: First of all, I think he has the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, as every citizen...

KING: Yes. I said by the indictment.

MCCAIN: As I say...

KING: Yes.

MCCAIN: ... I think he has the presumption of innocence.

KING: Of course.

MCCAIN: We ought to keep that in mind. And I think he deserves his -- his day in court.

This whole thing is very distracting for the White House, for us in the Congress, for the American people, when we really should be getting on issues such as the price of gas, climate change, deficit spending, immigration reform. It's very distracting. I hope that -- I am confident that Mr. Libby will get a fair trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: You'll remember that McCain made a run for president in 2000 before giving away to George W. Bush. He told Larry King he'll decide whether to make another run in 2008 after he sees which way the winds blow in next year's midterm elections.

CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" airs tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

The mayor of Las Vegas has an idea about dealing with those who deface freeways with graffiti. Mayor Oscar Goodman says their thumbs should be cut off. Goodman made the suggestion on a local TV show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR OSCAR GOODMAN, LAS VEGAS: These punks come along, and they deface it. And I'm saying that maybe you put them on TV and cut off a thumb. That may be the right thing to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was going to ask you your specifics on corporal punishment. I was thinking maybe a whipping or a caning, but...

GOODMAN: Maybe a whipping or a caning, that would be...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you serious?

GOODMAN: I'm dead serious. I'm dead serious. I mean, parents are supposed to take care of their children, and government is in a (INAUDIBLE). We take the place of a parent on occasion. And some of these people don't learn. You've got to teach them a lesson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: OK. Another guest on the show said Goodman should "use his head for something other than a hat rack."

Amazon plans to offer customers an option to buy books by the page. The pay-per-page program would allow readers to buy portions of book for online reading. The service will cost pennies a page. Those who buy the paper version of the book could receive full online access. Amazon says it will be up to the copyright holders whether pages may be downloaded or printed.

Famed author Anne Rice, she's brought us stories about vampires for years. Now she's taking a big turn and talking about Jesus in her new book. We'll ask her all about it next hour.

Meantime, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) VERJEE: The European commission is polling its members and potential members about allegations the CIA has set up secret prisons for terror suspects in Eastern Europe. The allegation surfaced in a report in "The Washington Post" newspaper this week. European officials say such prisons would violate the continent's human rights principles. Several governments in the former Soviet block have already denied the allegations. But an E.U. spokesman says the European commission still wants to hear from countries that have not yet commented.

CLANCY: Washington's human rights image has taken a battering over a string of allegations, charging the abuse of detainees held by U.S. forces in Afghanistan, Iraq and in Guantanamo, Cuba. Human rights organizations and the United Nations have also complained about the lack of access to check up on those detainees. The Bush administration says it takes all of the allegations of abuse seriously, and it has been acting on them. It also says the Geneva Convention, which governs how nations treat captured prisoners, does not strictly apply to fighters in the war on terrorism. About 500 detainees are now being held at Guantanamo Bay, where more than two dozen detainees there are engaged in a hunger strike. Many of being forced fed. In a press conference this week, the U.S. defense secretary said the detainees were trying to get media attention.

U.S. military officials admit that there have been a total of 36 suicide attempts by 22 different Guantanamo Bay detainees. A detainee named Juman Dasari (ph) reportedly made an attempt about two weeks ago during the visit by his attorney. Dasari has been in solitary confinement for nearly two years and has made allegations of abuse and torture.

Well, for more now on the suicide attempts, hunger strikes and allegation of abuse we have with us from New York Mark Sullivan, an attorney for the detainees who are on a hunger strike right now.

Also, on the line from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba is a doctor who oversees detainees at the hospital there. Now the Pentagon has agreed to allow us to talk to this officer if we do not use his name.

And as I understand it, you do not want your name used for security reasons?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct, sir.

CLANCY: All right. You are afraid you or your family might be the subject of reprisals?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's, correct, sir. Detainees have made statement to the fact, that they would, at times, pass information to other individuals and threaten our families and our livelihood.

CLANCY: All right. Then let's go over to Mark Sullivan and ask him to lay it out, what are your detainees saying? Are they saying that they're innocent and that's why they're on a hunger strike? Or they just want out? MARK SULLIVAN, ATTY., HUNGER STRIKE DETAINEES: Our detainees are suffering a serious case here of frustration and hopelessness. They have been held for almost four years in Guantanamo. No charges have been brought against them, let alone have they been convicted of any charges. They have an extreme high sense of frustration at hopelessness at their indefinite incarceration there.

CLANCY: But I mean, that's not going to the point of whether or not they should be behind the walls of Guantanamo Bay, the wire fences and the barbed wire.

SULLIVAN: We look at the allegations that the U.S. government has brought against our clients, and those allegations do not have them involved in violence, do not have them involved in military conflict. We ask that our clients have the ability to appear in court, where we are confident with a true and fair hearing they will be able to demonstrate that there's no basis for their detention.

All right. On the line with us from Guantanamo Bay, the doctor who we're not going to identify, tell us, how are the hunger strikers faring in all of this? I understand you're force feeding them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are using feeding tubes currently on 23 detainees, sir. They are currently stable at this point, and we're feeding nutrition through those tubes.

CLANCY: And what was their condition before the tubes were inserted? I mean, give us an idea here. Are these men on the verge of starving themselves to death?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are malnourished, because they have hunger struck for a significant amount of time, because of course they have lost weight, and based on clinical judgment and evaluation, at one point in each of these individuals, we did intervene to prevent the unnecessary loss of life.

CLANCY: All right, Mark Sullivan, what of the detainees? Have you been able to meet with them, to talk with them, and to find out what are the motives? Are they on a suicide mission here against the United States?

SULLIVAN: We have been able to meet with our clients on multiple trips to Guantanamo. One of our clients is currently a participating in that hunger strike to the best of our knowledge. We have extremely limited ability to communicate with them unless we're physically present in Guantanamo, but as of our last visit in October of this year, Isar Almarbadi (ph), was engaged in a hunger strike. And it's clearly due to the fact that they are frustrated over their continued confinement without any charges having been brought against them. They feel they really have no other recourse other than to bring this matter to the attention of the world by committing this act, this desperate act.

CLANCY: Do you think they're going to get out that way? You think they will arouse enough sympathy and out rage over their cases in order to get people to change their minds? SULLIVAN: Well, the U.S. military itself has said that most of the people who are detained at Guantanamo should not be kept there. There's only a small number of individuals who are any threat to the United States. So we think that the hunger strike certainly heightens the attention, but the overriding issue here is that most of the people who are detained at Guantanamo have no basis for being there, they are not a security threat to the United States. They don't have intelligence information. They simply, in many instances, were at the wrong place at the wrong time and should be released back to their families.

CLANCY: Well, obviously they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. But, you know, I wonder about some of the ones that have been released that have gone on to kidnap and kill when they return to places like Afghanistan. I mean, are you saying that these men are innocent of anything? They are not posing a risk? Are you, as their attorney, saying that?

SULLIVAN: I'm saying with our clients there is is no evidence against them that justifies their detention. They've been there for over four years. There's no basis for them being there. Most of the detainees whose have been released have not gone on to commit any acts of violence or aggression against the United States.

CLANCY: All right, I want to go back to our doctor, who is on the line from Guantanamo Bay. We're not using his name for security reasons. The Pentagon and CNN have agreed on this.

And, doctor, you tell us about their state of mind, and, I mean, if these guys don't decide to start eating, are they going to die?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, as long as we provide nutrition, they will not. So we can provide nutrition through the tubes for an indefinite time period. And in that situation, they would not die.

CLANCY: How about the state of mind? Are they, I mean, clinically depressed because of the situation there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They don't seem to be to us, sir. We do interact with them on a daily basis. They see a physician on a daily basis. There's a nurse in the facility 24 hours per day, and we have not seen that.

CLANCY: Well, what do you see?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, like I said, they've lost weight. And so, medically, they are malnourished. We're providing the nutrition for them. Our job is to provide safe, humane care, and that's exactly what we do.

CLANCY: But what do they tell you -- do they tell you what is their motive for being on the hunger strike? I mean, yes, they're in prison. Yes, they want out. I don't know that I've ever met anyone in prison that didn't want out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. That is what they're saying to us in the medical field, that they're protesting their detention.

SULLIVAN: I have a very different view of that, if I could jump in here.

CLANCY: Go ahead.

SULLIVAN: On October 15, Juma Aldulsery (ph), one of our clients, attempted to commit suicide by hanging himself in one of the cells while one of my colleagues was there visiting with him. Clearly, this desperate act by Mr. Aldulsery was a result of the conditions of confinement that he has endured.

He has been in solitary confinement for almost two years. He has almost no contact with other human beings. He has one hour of exercise a week, solitary, in a cage. He has access to virtually no reading material other than the Koran. All of these conditions have seriously degraded his mental condition, and we fear very much for his safety and for the safety of many of the detainees who are there.

CLANCY: All right. I'm going to -- Doctor, I want to give you the last word here. And just -- have any of the detainees died as a result of this? You just heard Mark Sullivan describing the situation there. Have any of the detainees died? Is that their real -- is that how they're living?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has never been a death at Guantanamo, sir.

CLANCY: Did Mark Sullivan accurately describe the way these guys spend their days? No reading materials. What is it -- one hour a week, Mark, of exercise?

SULLIVAN: Yes, one hour a week of exercise, solitary, in a cage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir there are -- there is no solitary confinement here at Guantanamo. We were speaking mostly about the hunger strike. I will say that any time you look at a correctional facility, there will be suicide attempts. Because of the quick response by guard force and medical, in any case where there has been a suicide attempt, there has not been a death because of the quick response of the staff.

CLANCY: All right. Doctor, I want to thank you for being with us. Gentlemen, I'm going to have to leave it there. This is a troubling issue, one that's not going to go away. Mark Sullivan, an attorney for the detainees now on this hunger strike. We're going to continue to follow this story and bring you updates. Thank you.

VERJEE: Still ahead, a U.S. Senate vote that opens up drilling in Alaska.

CLANCY: The battle really just beginning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the few places left in the world and certainly left in North America untouched by the hand of man.

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CLANCY: Welcome back. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY on...

VERJEE: CNN International. It's a pretty rare program that's being seen both in the United States, as well as around the world.

CLANCY: All right. Well, the battle lines are drawn. The U.S. Senate voted to reject an amendment that would have barred future oil drilling in America's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Next, lawmakers in the House are going to debate this controversial measure. It's a battle that's shaping up literally at the top of the world.

Now, at the northern most reaches at the U.S. state of Alaska, directly on the border with Canada's Yukon territory, it is the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and it sprawls out across the landscape. But it's what is beneath the landscape that has pitted conservationist against corporate interests and indigenous people alike: oil.

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CLANCY (voice-over): In sheer size, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is staggering, 19 million acres or more. In raw beauty, it is stunning as well, an often frozen landscape that is home to polar bears, caribou, wolves, some 36 land mammals, plus more than 160 species of birds.

SCOTT WALLACE, JOURNALIST; Well, it's a vast, enormous wilderness areas. It's pretty much one of the few places left in the world and certainly left in North America untouched by the hand of man, basically, as our creator made it.

CLANCY: Scott Wallace is a journalist who has specialized in covering not just nature, but indigenous people around the globe. In a recent assignment with "Smithsonian" magazine, he examined the clash between not just oil in the wilderness, but two indigenous groups that see their future in very different terms. The Inupiat Eskimos, who are in favor of drilling, and the Gwich'in Indians of Alaska who believe development will threaten their way of life.

WALLACE: Well, the Gwich'in believe that the oil executives among the Inupiat and the people who support oil production, especially in that area, in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, have sold out and made a Faustian deal with big oil. Many of those same Inupiat who have benefited from oil see the Gwich'in as basically pie in the sky idealists clinging to a way of life that will inevitably disappear.

CLANCY: Wallace photographed the Gwich'in, or people of the Caribou, who live on the outskirts of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, as they went on a hunt.

WALLACE: They do have hunting rifles, they do have snowmobiles, but largely, they live beyond the reach of the cash economy. Most of them don't have paying wage jobs. They are able to sustain a way of life by hunting, subsistence hunting. So the caribou, they believe -- and literally it's probably true the the caribou blood pulses through their veins. And the caribou are at the center of their way of life in many ways.

FAITH KIMMELL, GWICH'IN TRIBE MEMBER: It's the same as with the Plains Indian tribes. When they lost the buffalo, they lost many aspects of their culture that were vital to their survival as a people. That's what we feel will happen to the people. Our social problems would rise and we'd be a broken people.

CLANCY: Oil is already big business in Alaska, but with the north slope drying up around Prudhoe Bay, the Inupiat Eskimo and many others fear they must open up the refuge or face ruin.

WALLACE: The tax and the revenues generated by the Alaskan oil production has brought modernization to their communities. They have seen basically, you know, arctic ghettos transformed into modern communities where they have indoor plumbing and modern schools and police departments and fire departments and jobs. And their fear is that eventually their -- all their modern comforts are going to eventually disappear and they'll be left basically in the same poverty-stricken situation they found themselves in before oil production began.

CLANCY: The Inupiat say they care no less for their home. They, too, appreciate the value of nature and are, in their own right, a hunting culture that thrives off the harvest of bowhead whale meat. But they've seen nature co-exist with oil production, and believe their future is earning an income from oil without spoiling a spectacular wilderness.

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CLANCY: And that is the challenge. No one is certain just how much oil is beneath that coastal plain, but it may be as much as 10 billion barrels. The House is expected to debate this. It's going to be heated, but with rising oil prices and oil shortages, proponents of drilling believe that after years of efforts, they may finally have the upper hand.

VERJEE: Still ahead, we want to check the weather.

CLANCY: And from studying tsunamis to living through one, we'll have the story of a young girl's terrifying lesson in the fury earth can deliver.

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VERJEE: We want...

CLANCY: Go ahead...

VERJEE: We want to go over Femi Oke now, who has a very special story.

CLANCY: All right, Femi. FEMI OKE, CNN INTERNATIONAL WEATHER: Yes. Actually, good to see you both and see our viewers around the world. Now, paying attention in geography got me here to CNN's World Weather Center. Paying attention in geography for Tilly Smith probably saved her life.

She remembered watching a video about tsunamis. So when she was on a holiday last December in Thailand, the seas started to change. She warned her family and they got out of the way. This week she is being honored in New York for her bravery and her foresight. Here's Paul Osmond (ph) with more on her story.

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PAUL OSMOND (ph), ITV REPORTER (voice-over): For countless thousands, there was no warning. The huge wave seemed to come from nowhere to engulf them. But on one beach in Thailand, a 10-year-old schoolgirl had recently been transfixed during a geography lesson. The subject, tsunamis. As the sea began to boil, Tilly Smith remembered.

TILLY SMITH, TSUNAMI SURVIVOR: It was bubbling like white froth and it was sizzling and it was coming nearer and nearer to the hotel. And it wasn't going in and then out. It was coming in and in and in.

OSMOND: Tilly, from Oxshott in Surrey met the former U.S. President Bill Clinton who is now the U.N. special envoy for tsunami recovery. Part of his job is disaster reduction, teaching people how to recognize warning signs and know what to do when nature strikes. Like so many others, Tilly's parents had no idea what was happening.

SMITH: I told my mom, again, and again, and I was hysterical at this moment, saying, you know, there is going to be a tsunami. There's definitely going to be a tsunami. You know, just believe me.

OSMOND: Eventually Tilly was taken seriously and the beach with around 100 people on it was evacuated.

SMITH: I think that children need to know what happens when a tsunami comes. And what they need to do when a tsunami comes -- when any natural hazard comes.

OSMOND: Tilly's beach was one of very few in the area where no one was killed of injured. Paul Osmond, ITV News.

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OKE: Hard to believe Tilly Smith is only ten years old. She's a very mature young lady. Pay attention in class, kids. It may well save your life. We haven't heard that one before. That's me over and out. What's the question of the day, Jim and Zain? How are we doing?

VERJEE: We got some good e-mails. We're doing quite well I think.

OKE: Excellent.

CLANCY: Yes, only to begin our lines (ph) down. The question of the day was -- would free trade help or hurt people in the Americas?

VERJEE: Lance in Argentina writes "free trade will help the U.S. with cheaper labor, land and resources."

CLANCY: Wade Major in California wrote this: "Free trade benefits everyone, everywhere, all the time."

VERJEE: John in Greece says, "free trade always favors the rich monopolists. That's why the U.S. calls for it."

CLANCY: And that is how you are weighing in on this subject. There's been a lot of e-mail on that. But that has to be it for this edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY here on CNN International. I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Thanks so much for watching.

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